Ruger New Vaquero 45LC/45ACP Convertible

[Quiet Riot]

In response to the ammo shortage, I decided to get something I've wanted for a long time- a single action pistol. I went with the Ruger New Vaquero for its modern internals with the traditional Peacemaker look.

The coolest thing about the model I got is that it came with matched 45LC and 45ACP cylinders. Both shoot great out of this fantastic pistol.

Best of all, SA pistols are ready-made for shooting wax bullets. I can shoot in my backyard for 5-6 cents per shot whenever I want, and not worry about disturbing the neighbors or leading up my property.

If you're trying to figure out how to navigate the current ammo shortage, pistols like these will give you a lot of options. I am already shopping for its buddy. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71tTqANqKHM

[Crow Hunter]

I used to have a Blackhawk .357/9mm Convertible with a 6.5" bbl and it is one of only 2 guns that I have ever gotten rid of that I regret selling.

I used to have a pair of stainless .45 convertible Vaqueros special editions from Davidson's. I liked the Blackhawk better but both were fun.

[skipper49]

I have the New Vaquero Sheriffs Model in .44 Special. You are right, and it is a dandy single action. I'd like one of the special run (for Lipseys,I believe) of the 5 1/2" Bisley Blackhawk, also in .44 Special.
I really like the new smaller frames.

Skip

[Alaskapopo]

I want a 45 acp and 45 colt Ruger convertable but they don't make that option with the finish and grip I like. I like the 3 inch (not sure actual length) Talo models.
Pat

[Coal Dragger]

I don't have a Ruger, but I love my Freedom Arms M83 Premier Grade .454 that I had a .45ACP cylinder made for.

Either gun is a great concept for a maximum versatility field pistol for anything from plinking or target shooting with wax bullets, or other powder puff loads; all the way up to big heavy bullets moving along fast enough to flatten just about any game animal in North America.

[skipper49]

I don't have a Ruger, but I love my Freedom Arms M83 Premier Grade .454 that I had a .45ACP cylinder made for.

Either gun is a great concept for a maximum versatility field pistol for anything from plinking or target shooting with wax bullets, or other powder puff loads; all the way up to big heavy bullets moving along fast enough to flatten just about any game animal in North America.

You are so right, Coal Dragger. That M83 is a work of art, and the set-up you have would be hard to even match, let alone surpass, in versatility.

Skip

[SPQR476]

I've been thinking the same way, given the current environment. Just ordered a pair of new vaqueros myself. Cost me less than the price of a complete lower on gunbroker. ;-)

[CaptainN8]

Can the vaquero handle the hot 45 colt loads? Or only the blackhawk?

[Alaskapopo]

Can the vaquero handle the hot 45 colt loads? Or only the blackhawk?

My understanding is the new Vaquero's are on a smaller frame and can not handle hot loads. I had an older Vaquero and it was fine with hot loads but it had a Blackhawk frame.
Pat

[Quiet Riot]

My understanding is the new Vaquero's are on a smaller frame and can not handle hot loads. I had an older Vaquero and it was fine with hot loads but it had a Blackhawk frame.
Pat

That's right. The old Vaquero was too heavy to be appealing to many, so they gave up a bit of strength in order to lighten up the New Vaquero. I got mine for plinking, fast draw, CAS stuff... Hot loads aren't a requirement of anything I plan to do with it.

[Coal Dragger]

You are so right, Coal Dragger. That M83 is a work of art, and the set-up you have would be hard to even match, let alone surpass, in versatility.

Skip

I'm not in anyway trying to take away from the Ruger, I like Ruger single actions too. I just always wanted a Freedom Arms M83, and after much debate on what to get my wife decided for me and got the revolver for me as a gift for Christmas in 2011. Also kind of a reward for finishing a promotion program and testing process at work.

We are fortunate enough to able to afford some nice things. I don't own a lot of guns since I can only use one at a time, so the guns I do own I try to make sure they are nice guns. I enjoy shooting, and have developed some strong preferences from my time in the USMC and also a few disciplines of competitive shooting that I used to have time to enjoy. At any rate if a pistol or rifle is not accurate, or is not easy to shoot well I don't want it.

Fortunately the FA is both accurate, and with practice easy to shoot well even with full bore .454 loads. If you've not experienced the .454 it is a real treat to practice with, more of a necessary evil if you plan to hunt with it. With lighter 240gr bullets the recoil is sharp enough your palms start to sting after a cylinder full, which is the price you pay for launching them at around 1800-1900fps. Heavier bullets don't seem to sting as much but you get considerably more recoil moving the gun up in your hand and past your head. Not unmanageable but something to be aware of, if you limp wrist it or don't maintain positive control of the weapon it will hit you. Directly in the middle of your forehead. Ask me how I know...

I don't know if it is possible with a stock Ruger Blackhawk or Bisley since I haven't looked at one recently, but if you can change out the front sight it makes swapping between different power levels (.45ACP up to hot .45 Colt for example) or bullet weights a breeze. The FA has easily changed out front sights and I have 3 different styles in 2 different heights that allow for major elevation changes to be made without adjusting the rear sight and trying to remember your come-ups. Surprisingly both heights, a .380" and a .430" can accommodate just about everything without too much adjustment needing to be made maybe with the exception of the barn burner 240gr loads which require more elevation on the rear with the .380" installed. They leave the barrel so quickly the gun doesn't have time to rotate up as much so they shoot lower than heavier bullets, or even slower moving less powerful .45ACP.

My next project with this revolver will be trying out a Trijicon RMR, which I already have a Freedom Arms base for. I realize putting an electronic sight on an otherwise fine looking single action revolver is to some heresy but I can't ignore the functional advantages.

[Alaskapopo]

I'm not in anyway trying to take away from the Ruger, I like Ruger single actions too. I just always wanted a Freedom Arms M83, and after much debate on what to get my wife decided for me and got the revolver for me as a gift for Christmas in 2011. Also kind of a reward for finishing a promotion program and testing process at work.

We are fortunate enough to able to afford some nice things. I don't own a lot of guns since I can only use one at a time, so the guns I do own I try to make sure they are nice guns. I enjoy shooting, and have developed some strong preferences from my time in the USMC and also a few disciplines of competitive shooting that I used to have time to enjoy. At any rate if a pistol or rifle is not accurate, or is not easy to shoot well I don't want it.

Fortunately the FA is both accurate, and with practice easy to shoot well even with full bore .454 loads. If you've not experienced the .454 it is a real treat to practice with, more of a necessary evil if you plan to hunt with it. With lighter 240gr bullets the recoil is sharp enough your palms start to sting after a cylinder full, which is the price you pay for launching them at around 1800-1900fps. Heavier bullets don't seem to sting as much but you get considerably more recoil moving the gun up in your hand and past your head. Not unmanageable but something to be aware of, if you limp wrist it or don't maintain positive control of the weapon it will hit you. Directly in the middle of your forehead. Ask me how I know...

I don't know if it is possible with a stock Ruger Blackhawk or Bisley since I haven't looked at one recently, but if you can change out the front sight it makes swapping between different power levels (.45ACP up to hot .45 Colt for example) or bullet weights a breeze. The FA has easily changed out front sights and I have 3 different styles in 2 different heights that allow for major elevation changes to be made without adjusting the rear sight and trying to remember your come-ups. Surprisingly both heights, a .380" and a .430" can accommodate just about everything without too much adjustment needing to be made maybe with the exception of the barn burner 240gr loads which require more elevation on the rear with the .380" installed. They leave the barrel so quickly the gun doesn't have time to rotate up as much so they shoot lower than heavier bullets, or even slower moving less powerful .45ACP.

My next project with this revolver will be trying out a Trijicon RMR, which I already have a Freedom Arms base for. I realize putting an electronic sight on an otherwise fine looking single action revolver is to some heresy but I can't ignore the functional advantages.
I always thought it would be cool to won a Freedom Arms in .22mag /22 long rifle combo. But super super expensive.
Pat

[Coal Dragger]

Can the vaquero handle the hot 45 colt loads? Or only the blackhawk?


As mentioned by others the newer Vaquero is on a smaller frame and the cylinder walls are thinner because of this, so you'd best stick with SAMMI spec pressures.

If hot rodding a little or a lot is on your agenda I would strongly suggest that the Vaquero, even one of the older Super Blackhawk based guns, is not exactly ideal. Fixed sighted revolvers can really only be made to shoot to point of aim with narrow range of loads because you can't make elevation adjustments that don't involve a metal file.

If you plan to fire a wide variety of loads you'll need a way to achieve elevation adjustment to make it worth your time, and to be able to hit anything. The point of impact difference between a 185gr SWC in a .45ACP, and a 300gr +P+ .45 Colt load is huge. The 300gr bullet will hit much much higher on the target if sights are adjusted to hit with the .45ACP load.

So you have three great choices, a Ruger Super Blackhawk/Bisley, a Magnum Research BFR, or a Freedom Arms M83.

[Coal Dragger]

I always thought it would be cool to won a Freedom Arms in .22mag /22 long rifle combo. But super super expensive.
Pat

One of those is on my to do list, I grew up with a Ruger Single Six convertible and love the concept and functionality. I could get a Ruger but the barrels in a Single Six convertible are sized properly for .22 Magnum at .224 and are a bit over sized for .22LR at .222-.223. So accuracy suffers a bit. I'm not sure how FA specs their barrels for these little revolvers and would have to call and ask. The cool thing about calling Freedom Arms with a question is that you either talk to their very knowledgeable receptionist, the head gunsmith, or Bob Baker (the owner). Between the three of them there's virtually nothing that can't be answered or taken care of.

The other alternative would be getting one in .17HMR, and I have thought about that a lot too. I love small game hunting and the .17HMR looks like a neat little round, as does the new Winchester .17 magnum that is being introduced.

The only major gripe I have with my Freedom Arms is that once you get a really really good strong accurate revolver you want more of them. I now lust after a .475 Linebaugh or .500 Wyoming Express, as well as some of the M97's chambered in .22 and .17 as discussed above. Also neat, if any factory ammo or brass were available, would be the .224-32 FA in a model 97.

I do have a minor gripe with the M83 and that is the lack of a transfer bar to protect against discharge if the hammer is struck with the hammer down on a loaded round. The pistol does have a safety bar, that will block the hammer but it relies on the user to engage the right hammer notch, and if pulled past that notch the bar retracts. This could happen even accidentally if the hammer were to hang up and then snap back forward or get whacked. So if you plan to carry 5 up your holster had better have a very positive hammer retention strap on it! The M97 has a transfer bar and I wish FA would upgrade the M83 to this.

[Crow Hunter]

Fixed sighted revolvers can really only be made to shoot to point of aim with narrow range of loads because you can't make elevation adjustments that don't involve a metal file.



This for sure. One of the .45 LC/ACP convertible revolvers I had required some significant elevation adjustments between Colt and ACP ammo (Read filing/reprofiling). I finally decided to set it up so it shot POA/POI with ACP and high with Cowboy loads. For some reason the other gun shot just slightly high with both and I left it alone.

I much preferred a gun with better and adjustable sights. The Blackhawk I had was much better in this regard.

For "authenticity" I much prefer the newer Vaqueros to the older Blackhawk frames. The older ones always felt "chubby" to me. The newer ones feel like a Single Six.

[CaptainN8]

Thanks for the feedback, will be shopping for a good woods gun in the near future.

[GarrettJ]

Funny you bring this up. I recently pulled my .45 BH Convertible out of the back of the safe for the first time in years. This is a gun that I bought nearly 18 years ago. I always thought a Convertible in .38-40 / 10mm would be a neat one too.

I have always been under the impression that my gun shot .45 ACP better than it does .45 Colt, but had never really sat down and tested it. One theory was that the rifle twist was slow enough as to not be optimal for the 255 gr. and heavier bullets. So it would not be so much a matter of the ACP case giving better accuracy, as it was a matter of the ACP being generally loaded with lighter bullets.

I'd been thinking about this for a while, and started loading up various weight bullets in both cases. I ended up loading three bullet weights - 250 gr. Hornaday XTP, 230 gr. LRN, and 195 gr. LSWC.

I wasn't going for top end loads by any means. I wanted to try and get the velocities as close as possible between ACP & Colt cases for each bullet weight. The one exception here was the 250 gr. bullets, as I had these already loaded up, and didn't have any unloaded projectiles. For this, I ended up having to pull some of the loaded .45 Colt ammo so I could get some bullets to load in ACP cases.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/GarrettJ/Reloading/photo_zps31af4bb3.jpg

I finally got a chance to go out in the snow and try them out yesterday. Results were inconclusive, as to whether one case or a given bullet weight was more accurate than the others. Shooting from sandbags at 25 yds., the best group was the 195 gr. ACP loads. But then the close second was the 250 gr. Colt loads. The 230s didn't group all that well from either case. Might just be that particular brand isn't all that great. Don't know.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/GarrettJ/Reloading/photo_zps7a06d3f8.jpg

Oh yeah. Here's the bullet launcher. I always liked the looks of the 4-5/8" barrel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/GarrettJ/photo_zpsbb13f43f.jpg

[GarrettJ]

Can the vaquero handle the hot 45 colt loads? Or only the blackhawk?

To be honest, I never cared for shooting hot loads in a single-action revolver. At one time had worked up a few warmer loads in the Blackhawk, using 300 gr. bullets. While the plow handle grip is nice for shooting standard pressure loads, and even some mid-range loads, I find it isn't ideal for heavy recoil.

The gun would spin so hard in my hand, the frame would bite in at the base of my thumb. Not all that pleasant.

For hotter loads, I prefer to stick with a double-action revolver, due to the shape of the grip. In a single-action, the Bisley grip may work a little better, but I've never had an opportunity to shoot heavy loads through one of those.

[CaptainN8]

To be honest, I never cared for shooting hot loads in a single-action revolver. At one time had worked up a few warmer loads in the Blackhawk, using 300 gr. bullets. While the plow handle grip is nice for shooting standard pressure loads, and even some mid-range loads, I find it isn't ideal for heavy recoil.

The gun would spin so hard in my hand, the frame would bite in at the base of my thumb. Not all that pleasant.

For hotter loads, I prefer to stick with a double-action revolver, due to the shape of the grip. In a single-action, the Bisley grip may work a little better, but I've never had an opportunity to shoot heavy loads through one of those.

Thanks for the input. I have shot my grandpas blackhawk with +p 45 colt loads, but don't know just how hot they were. Those weren't really uncomfortable at all to me. I will have to shoot a different gun in the future before making a purchase.

[GarrettJ]

Thanks for the input. I have shot my grandpas blackhawk with +p 45 colt loads, but don't know just how hot they were. Those weren't really uncomfortable at all to me. I will have to shoot a different gun in the future before making a purchase.

It was never an issue that I recall with 250 gr. and lighter bullets. Pretty much only with the 300s.

[Coal Dragger]

The Colt SAA style grip frame is less than ideal for really hot loads. The Bisley frame is a huge improvement, as is the excellent frame on the Freedom Arms revolvers both of which handle heavy recoil very very well.

The SAA style grip is too short and too rounded so you have the bad combination of not getting your whole hand on the grip, and the grip being more prone to roll under recoil.

Both the Bisley and FA grip are probably the best I've ever used in a hard recoiling big bore revolver, I greatly prefer them to anything else including various DA wheel guns that will beat the hell out of the web of your hand.

[Coal Dragger]

Funny you bring this up. I recently pulled my .45 BH Convertible out of the back of the safe for the first time in years. This is a gun that I bought nearly 18 years ago. I always thought a Convertible in .38-40 / 10mm would be a neat one too.

I have always been under the impression that my gun shot .45 ACP better than it does .45 Colt, but had never really sat down and tested it. One theory was that the rifle twist was slow enough as to not be optimal for the 255 gr. and heavier bullets. So it would not be so much a matter of the ACP case giving better accuracy, as it was a matter of the ACP being generally loaded with lighter bullets.

I'd been thinking about this for a while, and started loading up various weight bullets in both cases. I ended up loading three bullet weights - 250 gr. Hornaday XTP, 230 gr. LRN, and 195 gr. LSWC.

I wasn't going for top end loads by any means. I wanted to try and get the velocities as close as possible between ACP & Colt cases for each bullet weight. The one exception here was the 250 gr. bullets, as I had these already loaded up, and didn't have any unloaded projectiles. For this, I ended up having to pull some of the loaded .45 Colt ammo so I could get some bullets to load in ACP cases.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/GarrettJ/Reloading/photo_zps31af4bb3.jpg

I finally got a chance to go out in the snow and try them out yesterday. Results were inconclusive, as to whether one case or a given bullet weight was more accurate than the others. Shooting from sandbags at 25 yds., the best group was the 195 gr. ACP loads. But then the close second was the 250 gr. Colt loads. The 230s didn't group all that well from either case. Might just be that particular brand isn't all that great. Don't know.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/GarrettJ/Reloading/photo_zps7a06d3f8.jpg

Oh yeah. Here's the bullet launcher. I always liked the looks of the 4-5/8" barrel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/GarrettJ/photo_zpsbb13f43f.jpg

It looks to me like you might have some undersized cylinder throats on those two cylinders. Ruger is notorious for this on their .45 Colt revolvers. The throats should measure around .4525-.4530 to allow a bullet to pass snuggly before hitting the forcing cone and entering the barrel. Instead many of them measure .4500-.4510 so your .45 Colt bullets at .4520-.4525 get swaged down and don't have a tight fit in the barrel which should be a .4520. Accuracy suffers a lot because of this, but it is an easy fix with the right reamer to open them up.

[dp2826]

Where are you getting wax bullets? I have a new vaquero in 45 long colt and am curious about these.

[GarrettJ]

It looks to me like you might have some undersized cylinder throats on those two cylinders. Ruger is notorious for this on their .45 Colt revolvers. The throats should measure around .4525-.4530 to allow a bullet to pass snuggly before hitting the forcing cone and entering the barrel. Instead many of them measure .4500-.4510 so your .45 Colt bullets at .4520-.4525 get swaged down and don't have a tight fit in the barrel which should be a .4520. Accuracy suffers a lot because of this, but it is an easy fix with the right reamer to open them up.

You may be right. My calipers show the .45 Colt cylinder being much tighter than the ACP cylinder throats. Calipers show the diameter as small as .449". But that's your typical set with +/- .001 tolerances.

So I pushed a bullet through the chamber and measured it at .451", or maybe just a hair over. I'll check the bullet with a micrometer tomorrow and be able to say better.

OTOH, a bullet pushes easily through the ACP cylinder. A .452" bullet is not swaged down when pushed through it.

[Wildcat]

Where are you getting wax bullets? I have a new vaquero in 45 long colt and am curious about these.

A buddy of mine has been cutting up the sticks for hot-glue guns and using them as wax bullets (with just a primer) to practice with his 625.

[Quiet Riot]

Where are you getting wax bullets? I have a new vaquero in 45 long colt and am curious about these.

I got a whole loading set from the Cowboy Fast Draw Association here:
http://www.cowboyfastdraw.com/secureshop/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=167

I bought 1000 wax bullets for $25, 50 nickel cases built to just drop in large pistol primers for $35, and I can't recommend enough the Silver Press for $30 that makes hand loading the wax bullets super easy. Everything arrived at my door 3 days after my order.

The cases are also available in 209 shotgun primer versions, which is what you'd use for fast draw competitions. They are twice as powerful but also twice as loud and sound about like a 22lr when you shoot them. You really need hearing protection, and there's no doubt that the neighbors will think you're shooting something, which is something I try to avoid when I can. That's why I went with the pistol primer version.

I am putting together a video on this for later this week. I'm going to chrono these and do some plinking and penetration tests to show what you can do even with the pistol primer version.

ETA: You can make your own cases using a drill for the flash hole and a drill press to open the primer pocket if you wanted the drop-in feature or wanted to use 209 primers. You can also make your own wax bullets, but using plain wax is less than ideal. Most of the ready-made wax bullets include some polymer in the mix to make them a little harder while raising their melting point above the temp of a warm gun. It really comes down to how much you like to do things yourself as a hobby, because it's hard to justify DIY'ing this based solely on cost savings when you can buy 6000 wax bullets for 2.25 cents per round, shipped.

[SPQR476]

Used to do it as a kid by drilling out flash holes, chamfering the case mouths sharp, and pressing the case into a block of canning wax. Then you'd prime afterwards...keeps the air pressure from pushing the wax bullet back out if you prime last. Then, shoot away into a cardboard box with some carpet inside. Collect up all your spent wax, melt down in a double boiler, mix in a little beeswax to make subsequent batches a little more resilient, pour into a cookie sheet, let cool, and cut more "bullets".

[Quiet Riot]

I got a thread going on the wax bullets, including a video, over in the reloading section here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=123710

[Stickman]

I used to have a Blackhawk .357/9mm Convertible with a 6.5" bbl and it is one of only 2 guns that I have ever gotten rid of that I regret selling.


I had to make a decision a long time ago whether to sell my Vaquero, or my old three screw... it was an easy choice. The below still has a home with me, and always will.

http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Handguns/IMG_0391%20Stick%20Blackhawk%20b.jpg

[okie john]

For hotter loads, I prefer to stick with a double-action revolver, due to the shape of the grip. In a single-action, the Bisley grip may work a little better, but I've never had an opportunity to shoot heavy loads through one of those.

I had a 5-shot 45 Colt built on a Ruger Bisley. We're talking 325-grain bullets at close to 1,400 fps. The Bisley grip frame handles recoil so well that Hamilton Bowen and several other revolver makers will not build 475 and 500 Linebaugh revolvers on any other grip frame.

But the question is why we should tolerate that kind of recoil at all. John Linebaugh himself has made some interesting observations on the penetration offered by a 250-grain 45 Colt bullet at 1,000 fps at http://handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=12.

There's a lot of wisdom there...


Okie John

[Coal Dragger]

I had a 5-shot 45 Colt built on a Ruger Bisley. We're talking 325-grain bullets at close to 1,400 fps. The Bisley grip frame handles recoil so well that Hamilton Bowen and several other revolver makers will not build 475 and 500 Linebaugh revolvers on any other grip frame.

But the question is why we should tolerate that kind of recoil at all. John Linebaugh himself has made some interesting observations on the penetration offered by a 250-grain 45 Colt bullet at 1,000 fps at http://handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=12.

There's a lot of wisdom there...


Okie John

Heresy!

We want to push big heavy bullets fast because that is what real men with testicles do! Because pain is good! You're not a real man unless your big bore revolver leaves your hands stinging like you've beed hitting a concrete wall with an aluminum ball bat!

Just kidding. While I do shoot full powered .454 Casull loads more often than I'd care to just to stay sharp with them, I'm more comfortable throttling my reloads back to around 1250-1300fps with a 300-335gr bullet. A 300gr bullet at 1650fps is certainly useful in having a flatter trajectory, or better yet a 240gr at 1900fps... but honestly they are majorly unpleasant to shoot for extended periods.

I have even loaded and shot quite a few 360gr bullets out of my Freedom Arms that were max listed loads, they were interesting. Funny thing is I think the FA is strong enough I could go even hotter since most load data now takes into account comparatively weak double actions like the 6 shot Ruger Super Redhawk.

My favorite loads for my FA are a Cast Performance 335gr wide nose flat point bullet with a gas check, over a healthy but not silly charge of IMR 4227 to drive them to about 1250fps. Powerful enough to flatten anything, but not abusive for practice sessions.