View Full Version : Need help regarding caliber choice in today's market
I'm helping my wife's cousin purchase a handgun for self/home protection. They have decided that a Glock would be a good choice and want to buy in the near future.
Normally I would recommend a 17 or 19. But with the market now a days we wouldn't be able to get much ammo. I have a little bit of 9mm that I would give him but I dot have much as I do t own a 9mm.
My second thought would be to get a 23 or 22. I have 40 ammo stockpiled and would easily be able to give them enough to learn and train with. My problem with that is that the cousin and her husband are not gun people and I think they would do better with a 9mm. When the market settles down I think the cheaper 9mm ammo and less recoil might get them to practice more.
What do you guys think?
Lawnchair 04
02-03-13, 13:04
I would have them stick to the 9mm. Just pick up ammo when you can find it. I usually check a few sites daily, hasn't failed me yet. I think it'll pay off in the long run when this climate dies down.
DanjojoUSMC
02-03-13, 13:54
There are .40 pistols that are a relatively easy with recoil. Wouldn't hurt for them to have one.
I'm helping my wife's cousin purchase a handgun for self/home protection. They have decided that a Glock would be a good choice and want to buy in the near future.
Normally I would recommend a 17 or 19. But with the market now a days we wouldn't be able to get much ammo. I have a little bit of 9mm that I would give him but I dot have much as I do t own a 9mm.
My second thought would be to get a 23 or 22. I have 40 ammo stockpiled and would easily be able to give them enough to learn and train with. My problem with that is that the cousin and her husband are not gun people and I think they would do better with a 9mm. When the market settles down I think the cheaper 9mm ammo and less recoil might get them to practice more.
What do you guys think?
Ammo in general is hard to find and expensive right now, but .40 and .45 seems to be a little easier to find. Under normal circumstances, 9mm would be the best choice; however, the circumstances are far from normal. Before they buy anything, can they rent/shoot a Glock 22/23 and 21/30? And can you go to the range with them? I ask this because I think you need to get a feel for whether .40 or .45 is even a feasible choice for them. If so, then it depends on what they and you think. If they can't handle either one, then 9mm is the only choice unless they're willing to go the revolver route, so to say .38/.357.
It depends what is readily available in your area.
.45 seems to be most prevelent in my little town, with .40 taking second, and 9mm is all but impossible to find.
But I can drive an hour south and .40 is all I can find.
Drive east from there and 9mm is the only thing left on the shelf. See my point?
You are very generous.
I would suggest the 17 or 19. You have some 9mm you can square them away with. They will be able to get some of their own sooner or later.
Depending on the price in your area, I would wait on the purchase of both a G19 or G17 and 9mm ammo, but buy some hi cap mags now where you can find them, and then wait the for prices for Glocks and ammo to come down - which they will.
morbidbattlecry
02-03-13, 14:51
Too bad .380 isn't more viable i have seen a ton of that around.
filthy phil
02-03-13, 14:54
It depends what is readily available in your area.
.45 seems to be most prevelent in my little town, with .40 taking second, and 9mm is all but impossible to find.
Beat me to it.
45 is all the walmarts around here has. But natchez has 9 reasonable
One could make a case for or against any of the three main handgun calibers. I don't think it matters. I say just get whatever you can get. I think new shooters might be less intimidated by 9mm, but when my tiny mother started shooting, she favored the .45 and shot it better too. I shot .40 for over ten years and loved it, but recently switched back to 9mm.
Chimpanzee
02-03-13, 15:43
As others have mentioned, go to a range and rent a 9 and a .40. Whichever pistol they can shoot better and can handle the recoil is the one they need to get. What good is a pistol if the user is afraid to shoot it?
Having said that, I strongly recommend the G23. I've had both the 23 and the 19 and will be sticking with the 23 for good. It carries well, shoots well and I hardly notice the recoil. If they don't plan on carrying then either the 22 or the 17 should fit the bill. Glock makes a good product in my experience.
To be honest I was looking for a glock 19. 9mm in a glock would have been my first choice.
But since I'm not planning on running a light on my pistol, or adding too much, a glock 23 fit the bill. It was only a bonus .40 was still somewhat available. Besides the better ballistics of the .40 helped cement my decision.
To be honest I was looking for a glock 19. 9mm in a glock would have been my first choice.
But since I'm not planning on running a light on my pistol, or adding too much, a glock 23 fit the bill.
I'm a bit slow today but aren't those identical in every way but diameter of the hole in the business end? :confused:
TriviaMonster
02-03-13, 16:36
40 cal 3rd gen Glock have had problems when running a light in the past. My 23 has no issues but its a real problem for some guys.
Oh and the 40 has a different and stronger recoil impulse which flexes the frame a bit more. The rail mounted lights stiffen the frame causing the recoil impulse to behave differently.
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I'm a bit slow today but aren't those identical in every way but diameter of the hole in the business end? :confused:
Yes, that is correct. G19=9mm and G23=.40 S&W. Same frame size.
40 cal 3rd gen Glock have had problems when running a light in the past. My 23 has no issues but its a real problem for some guys.
Oh and the 40 has a different and stronger recoil impulse which flexes the frame a bit more. The rail mounted lights stiffen the frame causing the recoil impulse to behave differently.
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Thanks, I was unaware ;)
jonconsiglio
02-03-13, 16:52
Stick to 9mm. Unless he plans to shoot a ton, there's plenty of ammo for practice and defensive use.
This is a temporary thing. Even if it was permanent, it would eventfully affect all ammo. In which case 9mm would still end up cheaper.
100 rounds of defensive ammo should be fine. Fill a couple mags then dump the rest to assure reliable function. Even with the way things are now, there's no reason he couldn't shoot a couple hundred rounds a week.
I can walk into my local shop and buy some 9mm right now, just to as much as normal.
theblackknight
02-03-13, 17:34
9mm
People who can't shoot don't do any better with a bigger round.
http://www.txcounsel.com/9mmvs40vs45.gif
TriviaMonster
02-03-13, 18:38
460 Rowland is a good one.
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theblackknight
02-03-13, 18:41
The g19 might be better for her just for the weight too. A smaller gun might recoil more but a full size 17 might be too taxing to hold at full extension. My wife is like 120ish and dosent like my FS M&P because of this.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
Other than price, I don't see any advantage to 9mm & right now they're harder to come by. Recoil is subjective... & if they're not gun people, would they know the difference? Go with the 40.
TriviaMonster
02-04-13, 02:43
Other than price, I don't see any advantage to 9mm & right now they're harder to come by. Recoil is subjective... & if they're not gun people, would they know the difference? Go with the 40.
And capacity. Its not that 9mm has an advantage, its just that the other don't have one over it. With modern duty loadings its bridged the gap between the others in key areas like barrier penetration and overall tissue destruction. The 40 and 45 don't really offer anything over the 9mm anymore. Its 2013 and the ammo companies know it. This from a guy who also carries a 40 currently.
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maddawg5777
02-04-13, 02:56
I'd personally stick with 9mm. Once all this shit settles 9mm will be easily found and cheaper than 40 or 45. My tactic lately to obtain ammo is to sit at sportsmans wharehouse on Fridays when they open. Sit in the line and walk out with several boxes at NORMAL PRICE. Picked up a couple hundred rounds of Remington 9mm for the usual 12 bucks a box. If you have some free time and perseverience you can get normal pricing in this market.
ffhounddog
02-04-13, 03:58
My mom went from carrying a .38 Specal j frame to a Glock 23 and she says the recoil for her is less (well j farme I would think so), my dad carries a Glock 23, and my wife carries a G22 at work and off dut she carries a G23 and I normally carry a H&K P30 in 9mm but since I had to be in a few 10 round mag states I carried my HK USPc in 40. Since this crazyness I have carried the HK USPc since I can find 40SW ammo here and I have to buy it for her anyway might as well shoot my forties. I do have a Glock 23 gen4 that I carry sometimes myself, mostly when we travel back home to Alabama but that is because we uselly have one or two M4's in the truck as well.
If you are worried about recoil a Gen4 or a HK in 40 would be my choice.
And capacity. Its not that 9mm has an advantage, its just that the other don't have one over it. With modern duty loadings its bridged the gap between the others in key areas like barrier penetration and overall tissue destruction. The 40 and 45 don't really offer anything over the 9mm anymore. Its 2012 and the ammo companies know it. This from a guy who also carries a 40 currently.
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Thanks for you opinion, as I was just offering mine...
Not trying to start a caliber war. We all have our favorites. Mine is a .40, well, actually it's a 10mm... but that's a whole different thread. :)
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Just my experience, but I think 9mm has a couple advantages over 40 - for me anyway.
1. 9mm is more accurate for me
2. I'm faster at reacquiring my target after each round
3. I know many think it doesn't matter but ammo capacity is an advantage to me.
4. DocGKR's ballistics gelatin doesn't show much difference between the two.
But most importantly, shoot what you shoot best.
I wouldn't make any decisions based on the current situation. The ammo scarcity will pass and it would suck to be stuck with a gun you don't want after that.
If they want a 9mm, get a 9mm and keep in mind the current availablility issues are temporary.
brickboy240
02-04-13, 11:07
I have long championed the idea of having pistols in all three calibers: 9, 40 and 45. For this reason alone.
I can still find 40SW ammo everywhere. 45 ACP sometimes and I have not seen 9mm in a store in 2 months.
That said...yes...i am shooting my G22 lately.
Everyone should pick up a 300 dollar police trade in G22 or G23...for these times and just in case.
-brickboy240
JMO but a Glock is a poor choice for a HD pistol, for someone who is not going to train much, if any.
Glocks are not a one size fits all answer to the question "Which gun should I get?"
A gun that can be made safe without a holster, that utilizes more than "keep your finger off the trigger" may be a better answer.
Everytime I hear that question a bunch of gun guys jump right in with "Glock 19".
These people's biggest threat to safety is themselves. Get 'em something with a safety and/or a decocker and make sure they at least get it ingrained to hit that lever...
JMO but a Glock is a poor choice for a HD pistol, for someone who is not going to train much, if any. . .
Get 'em something with a safety and/or a decocker and make sure they at least get it ingrained to hit that lever...
Since you say a Glock is a bad choice for HD for people are not going to train much, I'll agree . . . that any firearm for HD for those people is a bad choice. Get trained and then worry about which gun is best.
Further, if you think a Glock is a bad HD choice then you're really saying Glock is a poor choice for any scenario, at least that's the impression I got. Would a Glock with a heavier trigger be acceptable? A .357 revolver (no external safety)? I won't delve into the area of defending the Glock further, seeing this was a thread about caliber selection - there are far more competent Glock owners than me.
p.s. I feel fully safe using my M&P 9 as part of my HD package.
TriviaMonster
02-04-13, 18:28
What makes a gun with a safety better if they don't train? How many times has a safety been left on by a new shooter in a sticky situation?
No gun will make an untrained (=unsafe) shooter any better. They should stick with scissors if they won't bother to learn.
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I think ya'll are over estimating the level of proficiency that is usually achieved by the type of gun owners who are not shooters.
Yes I understand the whole 'finger off the trigger makes it safe', I carry a Glock every day, have trained with 'em quite extensively. I love 'em.
When uninitiated new gun owners decide to start keeping a gun beside the bed or buried in the sock drawer, or in the glove-box, I believe a DA or a safety is going to be safer [if they use it]. They'll likely never use the gun with a holster, won't develop any type of SOP for themselves and the trigger will always be exposed. Handguns in general are unforgiving of careless handling, the current striker fired type ones are probably at the less tolerant end of the spectrum.
When I try to give people a quick and dirty rundown of handling/safety, you have to be fast because they're not gonna learn much, but the initial learning curve is the steepest, so you gotta do what you can.
1) muzzle discipline
2) trigger finger discipline
3) decock/safe the gun anytime you're not shooting it
4) ID target and what's likely to get shot if you miss
Basically: 1) Don't shoot me, 2) Don't shoot your kids, 3) Don't shoot yourself 4) Decock/safe gun when you put it up or whatever you do with it.
Every new shooter should get 9mm. 40 is significantly more difficult to shoot. When you can get all shots into a 6 inch circle at 50 feet, then you can look into 40. If when you get the 40, you cannot keep all shots within the 6 inch circle, then revert back to 9mm. Shot placement is what matters.
When uninitiated new gun owners decide to start keeping a gun beside the bed or buried in the sock drawer, or in the glove-box, I believe a DA or a safety is going to be safer [if they use it]. They'll likely never use the gun with a holster
I would never have an unholstered Glock with a round chambered. It would be in a holster and then the holstered pistol would be in a safe, unless I was wearing it.
If I were to leave it out, and I don't believe in unlocked guns so I would not, but if I did, it would have an empty chamber.
The only pistol I would feel safe with accidentally leaving unlocked would be an HK P7 - which is one of the reasons why it is my carry pistol. The others are that it is slim, has a great trigger, has a low bore-axis, and is easier to shoot accurately than almost anything else.
To stay on topic, 9mm is my choice, but if a person isn't gonna shoot a lot, the price difference in ammo doesn't add up to much...
rsilvers, I shot a P7 for the first time a few weeks ago. Yessir, it was a shooter. The squeeze-thing was a little dicey at first but it was easy to hit with..
Every new shooter should get 9mm. 40 is significantly more difficult to shoot. When you can get all shots into a 6 inch circle at 50 feet, then you can look into 40. If when you get the 40, you cannot keep all shots within the 6 inch circle, then revert back to 9mm. Shot placement is what matters.
Agreed. I made the mistake years ago to make my first choice a .40 because the FBI had adopted it. Doh! Stupid I know, and it took a lot of practice with my subsequent 9mm to unlearn some bad habits I had picked up with the .40, especially trigger flinching. I might even add that every new shooter should get a .22 first for practice and once good enough, a 9mm.
brickboy240
02-05-13, 10:40
Since there are tons of police trade 40s out there that are priced right and have little wear...it is not a bad idea to pick one up.
I see Glock 19s, Beretta 96s and full size USPs around now and then and the prices on them are pretty good. All of these 40s are NOT harder to shoot than their 9mm cousins. Maybe the smaller 40s are harder to shoot but the larger 40s are not bad at all.
At least you will be able to FIND ammo for it. I have not seen a box of 9mm in a gun store or Wal Mart for 2 months. I can find 40 everywhere I go.
-brickboy240
blueorison
02-12-13, 18:23
I'm helping my wife's cousin purchase a handgun for self/home protection. They have decided that a Glock would be a good choice and want to buy in the near future.
Normally I would recommend a 17 or 19. But with the market now a days we wouldn't be able to get much ammo. I have a little bit of 9mm that I would give him but I dot have much as I do t own a 9mm.
My second thought would be to get a 23 or 22. I have 40 ammo stockpiled and would easily be able to give them enough to learn and train with. My problem with that is that the cousin and her husband are not gun people and I think they would do better with a 9mm. When the market settles down I think the cheaper 9mm ammo and less recoil might get them to practice more.
What do you guys think?
9mm.
Because.... everything.
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