View Full Version : What the hell happened to PMC!!!
Let me first apologize to those that have posted recently about how weak PMC Bronze ammo is! Your right! I bought a case just before the crazy hit - the LGS had a couple cases and the price was good!
I hadn't chronied any Bronze for a couple of years ! Last time I got 3025 fps out of a 16" carbine! Didn't write down that lot# sorry. The Current Lot # is 223A-0546 on the batch I shot today. The following chrony data was from a Savage Hunter 11 22" barrel chrony at 10'!:mad:
Avg 2814 fps
SD 19.6 fps
ES 31 fps
1.2809
2.2806
3.2797
4.2875
5.2794
6.2782
7.2837
8.2813
9.2804
10.2823
Let me first apologize to those that have posted recently about how weak PMC Bronze ammo is! Your right! I bought a case just before the crazy hit - the LGS had a couple cases and the price was good!
I hadn't chronied any Bronze for a couple of years ! Last time I got 3025 fps out of a 16" carbine! Didn't write down that lot# sorry. The Current Lot # is 223A-0546 on the batch I shot today. The following chrony data was from a Savage Hunter 11 22" barrel chrony at 10'!:mad:
Avg 2814 fps
SD 19.6 fps
ES 31 fps
1.2809
2.2806
3.2797
4.2875
5.2794
6.2782
7.2837
8.2813
9.2804
10.2823
I chronographed 100 rounds of PMC Bronze last year out of my 16 inch Noveske...got 2886 FPS with an SD of 46.
They must have read about the airline that saved money by taking one olive out of the salad they served. 1 grain of powder out of how many rounds equals a shit ton of savings?
Just a theory.
The_War_Wagon
02-03-13, 20:05
It's designed to run in overgassed guns - the usual suspects - Shrubmaster, Delton, RRA, DPMS, CMMG, et.al. - all the rifles no self-respecting M4C regular would ever own. :haha:
theblackknight
02-03-13, 20:20
For inside 100, its great ammo.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
I posted what I saw running a Noveske 16" and 10.5" on ARFcom and was practically lynched. It was very low powered and some were so low powered that accuracy was all over the place. I spent twice as much ammo as normal. @ 160 yards some would drop way out in front of my target. I sold it all and stopped a Cabelas order before it arrived. Glad to see from here and the other forums I have been vindicated from my findings!! I will say they (PMC) should have spent more time with loading spec than ascetics because the ammo was very pretty.
I have never had good luck with PMC ammunition. It has not been accurate out of 3 carbines and 2 match rifles. It's the slowest factory 55g ammunition I have fired and below the accuracy node for my rifles. I use it for practice and matches inside 100 yards.
Here are some average muzzle velocities out of my duty carbine with 16" barrel for reference:
PMC 55g FMJ (red & white box) - 2673 fps
Black Hills 55g FMJ - 2726 fps
Win. Q3131A 55g FMJ - 2964 fps
S&B 55g FMJ - 3041 fps
Win. USA223R1 55g FMJ - 2888 fps
S&B 55g FMJ - 3041 fps
Malaysian M193 - 3065 fps
Rem. 55g FMJ (green & white box) - 2904 fps
Federal M193 - 3059 fps
Federal 55g SP - 2953 fps
Win. 55g SP - 2949 fps
All velocities were measured at 15 feet from the muzzle at a temperature of 55 degrees farenheit. The S&B 55g FMJ, Malaysian M193 and Federal M193 all measured between 3240 fps and 3260 fps out of my match rifle with 20" stainless barrel.
__________________
I posted what I saw running a Noveske 16" and 10.5" on ARFcom and was practically lynched. It was very low powered and some were so low powered that accuracy was all over the place. I spent twice as much ammo as normal. @ 160 yards some would drop way out in front of my target. I sold it all and stopped a Cabelas order before it arrived. Glad to see from here and the other forums I have been vindicated from my findings!! I will say they (PMC) should have spent more time with loading spec than ascetics because the ammo was very pretty.
While bronze is very slow it is not as bad as you are claiming. It is not so slow that it is going to drop into the dirt at 160 yards. If it was dropping in front of the target it was the way you were aiming. If you look at the posted differences in velocity that is not enough to go from on target to dropping in the dirt on the next shot. The only explanation would be that you were shooting in the dirt. Even if your target was 8 inches above the ground. The bullet is not dropping that much.
Op you might be having some chrony problems. Either weather or setup. The only other thing i could see is a mix up of bronze and xtac. Your velocity of 3025 from a 16" barrel is very fast. Bronze seems to range from 2650-2750 for a 16.
Well it did - i kept some for some cqb shoot house - but it sucks.....
RogerinTPA
02-03-13, 21:50
Is it not properly functioning in your AR? As much as people complain about it being under powered, I've never had a problem with it functioning & cycling correctly. It runs fine in all my ARs (6920x2, LMT MRP, DD LW Middy, Colt Sporter) including a brand new DD MK18 SBR during Pat Rogers COC. The accuracy wasn't that bad at all but I've never shot it past 100 yards. It's acceptable for my needs (training), but so is Wolf & Brown Bear, so I drive on with it.
Is it not properly functioning in your AR? As much as people complain about it being under powered, I've never had a problem with it functioning & cycling correctly. It runs fine in all my ARs (6920x2, LMT MRP, DD LW Middy, Colt Sporter) including a brand new DD MK18 SBR during Pat Rogers COC.
It doesn't run consistently in either of my mid length 16" ARs, even with C buffer, lots of lube, and regular spring.
750rds no hicups but I could barely hear it hit the steel with my ear pro. Dont get me wrong I have used PMC often over the years but the bronze is a third place.
It doesn't run consistently in either of my mid length 16" ARs, even with C buffer, lots of lube, and regular spring.
I've never had a cycling problem in my 16 inch midlength with H buffer, 16 inch midlength with with A5, 16 inch carbine with C buffer, nor in either of my 11.5 SBRs with H2 buffers.
I've never had an issue with it. PMC has always been decent training ammo.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
ffhounddog
02-04-13, 04:05
I run in in my LWRCIs, DD, and my Cent Arms middy and no issues. I think it has something to do with running CHF barrels :laugh:
Okay just kidding but I have had Brown Bear chrony better than PMC. Also PMC is reliable just not the be all round we want.
Brass is good to make your own .223 rounds though.
It's designed to run in overgassed guns - the usual suspects - Shrubmaster, Delton, RRA, DPMS, CMMG, et.al. - all the rifles no self-respecting M4C regular would ever own. :haha:
All of my Colts are carbine length guns, and thus also over-gassed.
Just sayin.
PMC runs in my guns. Not a great load for fighting or long range, but works fine when you are in a carbine class and doing NSRs from the 50 and in. You also end up with brass instead of steel on the ground, should you care to pick it up.
Maineshooter
02-04-13, 12:13
I put a bunch of new PMC bronze 55 grain through the chronograph yesterday that averaged 2700 fps (Colt 6920). It grouped well and functioned perfectly but I too thought it was on the slow side for factory ammo. For practice purposes I have no complaints.
I think it is odd that people have problems with pmc running their AR's. Pmc bronze will run in my bcm 14.5" midlengths with up to an h2 buffer. Have not tried h3, and i normally run standard h buffers. I know it is not fast, but it has always been reliable. Accuracy is not match, but better than 193 for me
Yep, slow stuff. I chrono'd some a couple of years back and it was slow. Nice mellow round if you don't need that max. XTAC is the max. The good news is they got the pressure curve right, since pretty much everyone's gun runs on it, mine included.
Razorhunter
02-04-13, 16:16
Anyone got 5.56 X-TAC info? Complaints? Praise? Etc?
Doc Safari
02-04-13, 16:25
It's my preferred plinking ammo, but I have to remove the H-buffer and install a regular carbine buffer in my pinned-to-16 14.5" to get reliable cycling.
It chronos ~2650 out of my 16" MRP, and cycles fine even with an H2 buffer. Generally holds 1.5-2 MOA as well, so I'm happy with the accuracy.
RogerinTPA
02-04-13, 21:43
It doesn't run consistently in either of my mid length 16" ARs, even with C buffer, lots of lube, and regular spring.
Interesting. I've had no real issues running an H or carbine buffer in the 3 middies I've had, except one. That turned out to be a bad extractor spring. After replacement, I never had another issue. Some middies are finicky (BCM get mentioned quite a bit and DD on occasion).
RogerinTPA
Actually put a box through my AR worked just fine, didn't chrony it though. :rolleyes: I put it over the chrony after reading some of the posts here about problems and being slow, like I said I hadn't chronied them for a few years ! I try to get any new lots over the chrony to check quality of the loads. This happen to be the first PMC I've bought in quite awhile. Probably the last factory stuff I'll buy for along time. Especially with prices the way they are!:rolleyes:
Interesting. I've had no real issues running an H or carbine buffer in the 3 middies I've had, except one. That turned out to be a bad extractor spring. After replacement, I never had another issue. Some middies are finicky (BCM get mentioned quite a bit and DD on occasion).
PSA and S&W... You'd think they would be over gassed, lol.
PMC & Wolf 223 work flawlessly in my 10.5 Noveske with blue springco and H3.
StrikerFired
02-04-13, 21:47
I've used PMC in my SW and Colt with no problems. Accuracy is sub par but as far as blaster ammo or training it fits the bill
Anyone got 5.56 X-TAC info? Complaints? Praise? Etc?
Closest thing to genuine M193 in my opinion. Very fast (3300fps/20in.), very nice looking, M193 accurate.
I've had good results with the X-Tac also.
Back in the old days, I found that X-TAC was only minimally more expensive than PMC Bronze at PSA and I agree it's great ammo. However, it tends to be pretty hard on my gongs. No reason IMHO to use XTAC over Bronze.
All of my Colts are carbine length guns, and thus also over-gassed.
Just sayin.
PMC runs in my guns. Not a great load for fighting or long range, but works fine when you are in a carbine class and doing NSRs from the 50 and in. You also end up with brass instead of steel on the ground, should you care to pick it up.
True, but not as bad as some of the others listed. The gas port on the Colt barrel is about .064, while some of the Bushmasters I've measured at over .070, Olympic Arms is the worst at .090 to .100
Insta-Gator
02-17-13, 06:00
Local range had just gotten in some PMC X-TAC and Bronze. My S&W prefers the X-TAC. Price was still up there at $13.49. 5.56 X-TAC holds a better group than the .223 Bronze
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