View Full Version : Carbine Cut Out Rails options
zombiescometh
02-04-13, 09:52
A little background first. I was getting jealous of my brothers AR's so i had to get one about. I of course never buy a gun without doing a fair share of reaseach so i joined this site around may to find out more about the ar-15. 6 months ago i bought my first AR-15 a Colt 6920 Magpul edition with money i saved going basic i bought ammo, sling, light w/ light mount. Who knew that i would end up listening to just go out and shoot it lol. I love this gun but i find that i like having a longer rail yet i like having the FSP. So with google i find out about carbine cut out rails and i go by the old standby m4carbine to find out which ones have been tried and proven to work well. All decent reviews i could find was either for Centurion C4, Troy Battlerails, and DD lite rails. Not much information and still poor from my ar purchase i didnt have the cash for a new rail so i let the idea go. I have savings again to purchase a good rail. I decided to see what my choices are. Since searches mainly brought up Centurion, DD, and Troy. I searched deeper and found a lot more then i thought. I have decided on either the centurion c4 fsp 12 or the DD lite fsp 12 leaning more the centurion because of the easier install.
Seeing how long it took me to find what i was looking for i decided to put together this list for people who like me have an ar-15 carbine and like their FSP but want a longer rail without having to get rid of the FSP. Please add any suggestions.
[B]Centurion Arms C4 rail 12 FSP
[B]Centurion Arms C4 Carbine Cut Out 12
[B]Daniel Defense AR-15 Lite Rail 12 FSP
[B]Daniel Defense AR-15 Lite Rail 9.5
[B]Daniel Defense Omega x rail 12
[B]Daniel Defense M4A1 RIS ll
[B]Daniel Defense M4 Rail 9.5 FSP
[B]Daniel Defense M4 rail 12
[B]Troy Battlerail Charlie
[B]Troy Battlerail Delta
[B]Vltor case el
[B]Samson Star CXR
[B]Samson Star CX-EBR
[B]Samson Star ex p
[B]Samson Evolution 7 EX
[B]Samson Evoution 7 EX Add 4” Rail Extension /B]
Midwest industries fsp 12
Apex carbine gator grip cut out
Can't go wrong with Centurion C4's. I don't have any experience with Troy's cut out rails and have played around with DD rails which are high quality. I would say go with the C4 just because its so damn easy to install, locks up tight, and are extremely light. I currently have their mid length cut out rail and I absolutely love it.
zombiescometh
02-04-13, 10:07
Can't go wrong with Centurion C4's. I don't have any experience with Troy's cut out rails and have played around with DD rails which are high quality. I would say go with the C4 just because its so damn easy to install, locks up tight, and are extremely light. I currently have their mid length cut out rail and I absolutely love it.
Yeah i have narrowed it down To the C4 FSP 12 or the DD Lite FSP 12. Hopefully this helps other people who are having a hard time deciding.
Yeah i have narrowed it down To the C4 FSP 12 or the DD Lite FSP 12. Hopefully this helps other people who are having a hard time deciding.
Between the two, I'd pick the C4 rail, simply for the ease of installation. Just cut off the delta ring and handguard cap off of your 6920, and you'll have the C4 installed.
With the DD Lite, you'll have to remove the FSP and change barrel nuts.
Both of the rails are very well made, but in my opinion, the C4 takes the lead due to ease of installation. I'm running the C4 midlength cutout on one of my ARs, and it has been rock solid in terms of the mounting system. It has been through multiple classes and beat up a good bit, without any loosening of the rail.
I don't think you can go wrong with either of them. I only have experience with the DD rails and I really like them a lot but I have heard good things about the C4. You should be happy either way you go.
Yeah i have narrowed it down To the C4 FSP 12 or the DD Lite FSP 12. Hopefully this helps other people who are having a hard time deciding.
EDIT. Steadyup beat me to it
My DD came of course with a DD rail...I really like the attention to detail and that it has relief cuts between the rails for easier mounting and small weight savings....plus I like the bolt up system and the strength it provides
Centurion or DD would be my pick for you
batoncolle
02-04-13, 19:11
Add Apex handguards (http://www.apexhandguard.com/store.php?seller=ApexMachiningCompany&navt1=19974) to your list of cutouts.
I was looking for a cutout rail for my 10.5" LMT, currently residing in NFA purgatory. I will also be using a suppressor, and I wanted to keep the front sight so my choices were mainly limited to the Vltor and the Apex. I am going with the Apex because it looks to be a little more low profile all around, and it does not add any height to the top rail.
ColtSeavers
02-04-13, 19:25
Nice quick reference guide.
Have the VLTOR CASV-S (stepped 16" version) on my rifle and love it.
Something that should be made aware of the CASV system is that it is a no modification drop in free float interchangeable rail system. This means that it slots right on top of your flat top raip and into the delta ring and that you can put rails 'wherever you want' on it or none at all.
the centurion c4 is definitely easier to install than the DD, but when you're installing the c4, I ended up loosening the front sight post and removing the gas tube anyway, and changing the barrel nut and flash hider to put a DD rail on is easy to do once you've done that much.
I haven't had a problem with either rail, but I'm partial to the DD RIS II rails as they fit my hand best and have a very high quality feel to them.
Edit: read the instructions from centurion instead of installation videos on YouTube. you'll save yourself the step of removing the FSB, which definitely makes the C4 an easier install.
Midwest Industries also has a FSP rail. http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=422
I have both the MI and the DD Ris II. I like both however the DD is a skinner rail so wrapping you hand around it is easier for me. Overall, the DD is a more robust and higher quality rail.
EDIT: The MI version was easy to install. Just remove the old handguard, cut off the delta ring and lock tite in the new rail
Thanks for this! A ton of great info here.
Just installed a c4 carbine cutout rail on my 6920. I wouldn't call the install quick and easy but I got it done with no probs. On the 6920 you also have to remove the front sling attachment. I believe that part took the longest due to the rivet and hammering it out with a punch.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g200/ufg8rmike/IMAG0599_zpsa973c033.jpg
Nice work putting this all together. This would have been helpful to me in the past, and will most likely help me out in the future.
Daniel Defense also does limited runs of the 9.5 MK18 RIS II FSP.
Thanks, and I hope you keep adding to it as new FSP rail options are introduced.
This isn't a comparison, this is you stealing pictures from websites and cutting and pasting the manufacturers info.
Can't go wrong with Centurion C4's. I don't have any experience with Troy's cut out rails and have played around with DD rails which are high quality. I would say go with the C4 just because its so damn easy to install, locks up tight, and are extremely light. I currently have their mid length cut out rail and I absolutely love it.
Would you mind posting a pic of it?
zombiescometh
02-04-13, 22:39
This isn't a comparison, this is you stealing pictures from websites and cutting and pasting the manufacturers info.
Stickman is right I did steal all this information and that was wrong I would like to apoloigize to everyone for my mistake. Hopefully leaving the names are ok. If not please feel free to delete this thread.
the centurion c4 is definitely easier to install than the DD, but when you're installing the c4, centurion recommends loosening the front sight post and removing the gas tube anyway, and changing the barrel nut and flash hider to put a DD rail on is easy to do once you've done that much.
I haven't had a problem with either rail, but I'm partial to the DD RIS II rails as they fit my hand best and have a very high quality feel to them.
If you're careful, you don't have to remove the post or gas tube. The barrel nut is easy, and comes off in seconds if you have a dremel with a grinding wheel. The handguard cap is what's a pain in the ass, 10 minutes with tin snips can have it off though.
The C4s are just as 'high quality' as the DD, just different dimensions.
Would you mind posting a pic of it?
Sure. My phone takes terrible pics. Google "Centurion C4 mid length cut out rail" Stickman has lots of great pics of it out there.
If you're careful, you don't have to remove the post or gas tube. The barrel nut is easy, and comes off in seconds if you have a dremel with a grinding wheel. The handguard cap is what's a pain in the ass, 10 minutes with tin snips can have it off though.
This is basically how I did it. I did however remove the gas tube because I found it was far easier to remove the hand guard cap by being able to rotate it, which I was unable to do with the gas tube still in the FSB.
Would you mind posting a pic of it?
Here's some closeups of the C4 (this is a carbine cutout)
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/SBR/20210173.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/SBR/9eb0c8aa.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/SBR/4d61119e.jpg
I have both a RIS II FSP and the C4 midlength cutout. By way of installation comparison, the DD is an m-f'er to install and the C4 an absolute breeze.
While I very much like the DD, I prefer the profile of the C4.
Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2
the centurion c4 is definitely easier to install than the DD, but when you're installing the c4, centurion recommends loosening the front sight post and removing the gas tube anyway, and changing the barrel nut and flash hider to put a DD rail on is easy to do once you've done that much.
I haven't had a problem with either rail, but I'm partial to the DD RIS II rails as they fit my hand best and have a very high quality feel to them.
Not entirely true. I just installed mine without touching the front sight post. I used instructions available on their website, not the YouTube vid.
This is basically how I did it. I did however remove the gas tube because I found it was far easier to remove the hand guard cap by being able to rotate it, which I was unable to do with the gas tube still in the FSB.
This is exactly what I did, except I used a dremmel and a pair of pliers instead of tin snips on the handguard cap since I didn't have tin snips.
Thanks guys. I can't decide if I want one of these on my pending upper or just to keep it simple with an MOE.
too old for this
02-10-13, 01:44
Not entirely true. I just installed mine without touching the front sight post. I used instructions available on their website, not the YouTube vid.
This was my experience also. I just installed the C4 w/cutout on a 6920 and there is no need to touch the fsb. The gas tube though, needs to be removed as per the instructions cited above. They are posted on the Centurion site and are very clear and concise. Follow them and you'll be finished in an hour or less depending on your familiarity with tools and your preparation. A dremel tool equipped with reinforced cut-off wheels is mandatory.
http://www.centurionarms.net/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=3&Itemid=158
I have the Daniel Defense DDM4 Rail™ 12.0 FSP on my DDM4v1LW - it's my only cutout and I love it. I also own a non-cutout Centurion 12" rail. Both are masterpieces of engineering. I would say that you couldn't go wrong with either brand. I have been considering one of those Troy cut out rails for another build though. They're less expensive, look nice, and Troy has never let me down.
The next time you post something please be aware of what you are talking about. I wrote the installation instructions for the Centurion and I never said to remove the FSB.
the centurion c4 is definitely easier to install than thwe DD, but when you're installing the c4, centurion recommends loosening the front sight post and removing the gas tube anyway, and changing the barrel nut and flash hider to put a DD rail on is easy to do once you've done that much.
I haven't had a problem with either rail, but I'm partial to the DD RIS II rails as they fit my hand best and have a very high quality feel to them.
TacMedic556
02-10-13, 09:44
I was considering the Omega 7.0 on my 6920 until I saw the Centurion carbine cutout. I just installed the centurion c4 carbine cutout and could not be happier. Very solid and nice extra forward rail estate for a good hold or grip. If posting pics on here was easier I would post one. Go Centurion.
P.S. There is no reason to move or loosen the FSB. Cut off delta ring, remove spring and clamp, remove gas tube, cut off hand guard stop. Clean her all up and install.
The next time you post something please be aware of what you are talking about. I wrote the installation instructions for the Centurion and I never said to remove the FSB.
you're right, I am wrong. I made the mistake of following some YouTube video instead of the PDF instructions.
When I bought mine, while waiting for it to arrive, I looked up installation videos. When the rail arrived, I glanced through the instructions and thought they were the same.
Again, my mistake, no disrespect to your work or centurion rails intended. I will edit my post
edit: I will say though, loosening the FSB made removing the end cap very easy. I'll follow the instructions next time
TacMedic556
02-10-13, 10:29
Get out plenty of socks to keep the barrel and receiver clean. Cutting the delta ring throws off a bunch of aluminum dust. No big deal. Wrap socks around as if prepping for surgery, duct tape it, then use a dremmel to cut mostly through the delta ring at two points that are on opposite sides of eachother (halfway around). Take a flat head screw driver to pry and break it free. Here are some pics of prep and cut and finished product.
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=587&pictureid=3159
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=587&pictureid=3158
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=587&pictureid=3160
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