Rail on a garand [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

ra2bach

02-04-13, 14:19

has anyone used a rail that replaces the handguard on an M1 like the Ultimak? I am looking to mount a T-1 and wondering if it holds zero or if it wanders...

TXBob

02-04-13, 14:32

NWPilgrim

02-04-13, 16:21

Yes, I have an Ultimak rail mounted on my Garand with a Nikon 2.5x8 pistol scope (i use it for sighting handload tests). It is very solid and very low profile. It does not sit any higher than the receiver. I have shot hundreds of rounds through it and it is still rock solid. Very easy to install as well.

I also have an Ultimak on my M1 Carbine with a Bushnell red dot.

Aaaaack, my eyes, my eyes!! Eye bleach for the Sage stocks! Oh man, those are probably very good for accuracy and hanging doodads on a Garand, but please!! Not the old warhorse. :nono:

alvincullumyork

02-04-13, 17:05

Sage (IIRC) had replacement stocks for M1. Similar to the EBR chasis.

http://www.sageinternationalltd.com/SIL/ebr.html

Probably pretty expensive, but since its the whole stock is would be reboust (if not an offense to Garand purists)

Looks heavy and expensive.

I think the mount in this thread is an Ultimak.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=82812

ra2bach

02-04-13, 21:21

Looks heavy and expensive.

I think the mount in this thread is an Ultimak.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=82812

Oh. My. F'ing. Dog...

thank you. I now know exactly what I'm going to do...

:dance3:

tostado22

02-04-13, 22:25

Oh. My. F'ing. Dog...

thank you. I now know exactly what I'm going to do...

:dance3:

I have seen many tankers before but have been reluctant to do that because I could not find many reputable gunsmiths to do it (not saying there are none) After seeing this and researching it a little I nearly pissed myself. Possibly doing this to my '55 H&R. I may convert it to .308 so I can use all of this surplus NATO. If only I had a second M1

To contribute to the topic, I am not familiar with the M1 Ultimak rail. However all of them I have seen on M14/M1As have been rock solid. They seem like a good company as well. As for purity, I wouldn't put one on an unmolested M1, but that's just me. On the Tanker/Mini-g that would be pretty sweet with a Fastfire or T1

NWPilgrim

02-04-13, 23:08

Agree on the purity clause! I have my best Garand set up strictly for CMP shooting, and my other two Garands with Ultimak rails and optics as my eyes are not as sharp as they once were.

If I only had one I would probably do the rail for part-time use but it is easy to remove again for CMP but then you probably gave to dight in you optics as well. Good reason to get another Garand.

ra2bach

02-05-13, 10:27

I have seen many tankers before but have been reluctant to do that because I could not find many reputable gunsmiths to do it (not saying there are none) After seeing this and researching it a little I nearly pissed myself. Possibly doing this to my '55 H&R. I may convert it to .308 so I can use all of this surplus NATO. If only I had a second M1

To contribute to the topic, I am not familiar with the M1 Ultimak rail. However all of them I have seen on M14/M1As have been rock solid. They seem like a good company as well. As for purity, I wouldn't put one on an unmolested M1, but that's just me. On the Tanker/Mini-g that would be pretty sweet with a Fastfire or T1

my intent was to be able to mount a T-1 on a garand. the Ultimak rail allows co-witness of the iron sights. the mini-G makes the gun more convenient to handle and transport. I am on the fence about the .308 conversion as I have a bit of .30-06 already and it seems to be more available commercially now that the S has H T F...

Garys4598

02-05-13, 17:54

tostado22

02-05-13, 20:37

my intent was to be able to mount a T-1 on a garand. the Ultimak rail allows co-witness of the iron sights. the mini-G makes the gun more convenient to handle and transport. I am on the fence about the .308 conversion as I have a bit of .30-06 already and it seems to be more available commercially now that the S has H T F...

Then I vote go for it! The cartridge selection should be made carefully for the reason you stated. I happen to have a bit of 7.62 and next to nothing for 30-06 surp so I would go with the .308.

I really like the idea of a co-witnessed T-1 on a compact Garand

alvincullumyork

02-05-13, 20:40

I think that I would really enjoy a Shuffs Mini G but I could never let my self make permanent alterations to a WWII vet. If I had a post war sample then game on cause that thing is freaking sweet!!!!

alvincullumyork

02-06-13, 09:37

There has got to be aftermarket stock sets that could be cut down to size without 'messing' up an original. Does anyone know who makes one? I wonder how close you could get to a Mini G with aftermarket parts and no permanent alterations to an original M1?

m1a_scoutguy

02-06-13, 11:02

Aaaaack, my eyes, my eyes!! Eye bleach for the Sage stocks! Oh man, those are probably very good for accuracy and hanging doodads on a Garand, but please!! Not the old warhorse. :nono:

Oh my GOD !!! Make it go away,:bad:,,LOL !!! That just is NOT right !! Anyways,,I have always wanted to try the Ultimax Rail myself,,they look useable & interesting for sure !!

ra2bach

02-07-13, 10:00

Below is my DGR (Dean's Gun Restoration) built M1 Garand T26 (a.k.a, "Tanker"), chambered for 7.62 NATO. Better than the mini-G in my opinion. I had Dean install an Amega Ranges mini-scout picatinny rail on the rifle's forend. I believe the UltiMAK product provides for a slightly lower scope mounting. . . but the Amega rail system is more sturdy. Such is my opinion anyway. I doubt you could go wrong with either Garand picatinny rail system. ;)

The photo at bottom is how my baby sleeps in my office den. I replaced the Thompson Center optic pictured in the first three photos with a Burris 2-7x32 Handgun Scope with posi-lock system. She's perfect now.

http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/GarySev/CIMG4827.jpg

very nice!

but I have a couple questions - Why do you say it's better than the Mini-G? the barrel length is 18.25 vs. 16.1. is this significant?

.308 vs. .30-06 - why choose one or the other?

Dean recommends the Ultimak rail as he says it uses 4140 steel clamps and the screws attach to this rather than steel screws attaching to the aluminum mount. Why did you ask for the Amegaranges mount instead?

and last, I started looking simply for advice on the rail because I wanted to mount a T-1 (my eyes ain't what they used to be...) but saw you have a "Scout" scope. this is interesting. how does this work for you?

Garys4598

02-07-13, 16:37

very nice!
but I have a couple questions - Why do you say it's better than the Mini-G? the barrel length is 18.25 vs. 16.1. is this significant?

.308 vs. .30-06 - why choose one or the other?

Dean recommends the Ultimak rail as he says it uses 4140 steel clamps and the screws attach to this rather than steel screws attaching to the aluminum mount. Why did you ask for the Amegaranges mount instead?

and last, I started looking simply for advice on the rail because I wanted to mount a T-1 (my eyes ain't what they used to be...) but saw you have a "Scout" scope. this is interesting. how does this work for you?

"Bottom Line Up Front": It's all a matter of personal preference.

I chose to go with the M1 Garand in its original U.S. Army Ordnance "T26" tanker configuration, due to the history of it. The Army never adopted it though. During my decision making process I watched all the youtube and etc. videos regarding the Mini-G. . . and I didn't care for the amount of smoke I saw emitted from the rifle's chamber as the spent shells were being ejected. Anyway, as I stated up-front, "personal preference." Besides, IMO 2" inches of barrel is a good thing if one is seeking a tad-bit more accuracy out of that configuration in this caliber.

I went with the 7.62 NATO chambering, simply because I wanted to shoot military ammunition out of this custom war horse. I could have had Dean cut the chamber for either three calibers (.308 Win, 7.62 NATO, or 30-06).

Regarding the AmegaRanges versus the UltiMAK rail, I think it's a toss-up. Had I to do it all over again I likely would have selected the UltiMAK due to its slightly lower profile. At the time, Dean had done at least one other AmegaRanges picatinny mount, and he didn't recommend the UltiMAK to me. . . so perhaps he now has more of an opinion between the two mounts? Dean had to cut a small portion of my AmegaRanges mounting plate so that the tankerized op rod would clear it during cycling. Likely such is not required of the UltiMAK mounting and therefore it's less of a pain in the arse for Dean to install.

You can research and view how the two rails are mounted to the rifle, and draw your own conclusions as to which of the two, in the long run, would be sturdier.

Regarding my Burris 2-7x32 Handgun Scope, I could absolutely NOT be more pleased with it. The 2 to 7 power magnification is helpful, and the crosshair retical feels right to me. But again, that's personal preference. I will say that I had to move the optic forward along the picatinny rail a wee-little, because my Garand's brass while ejecting was often smacking into the scope's housing (although it never hit the eye glass). The last/bottom provided photo of my Garand (mounted to my den wall) reflects where I finally placed the optic on the rail.

ra2bach

02-07-13, 22:26

"Bottom Line Up Front": It's all a matter of personal preference.

yes it is and you've made some very appealing choices. I was interested in your reasons as it seemed you made them deliberately. thank you for your detailed explanation, it was exactly what I was looking for...

I chose to go with the M1 Garand in its original U.S. Army Ordnance "T26" tanker configuration, due to the history of it. The Army never adopted it though. During my decision making process I watched all the youtube and etc. videos regarding the Mini-G. . . and I didn't care for the amount of smoke I saw emitted from the rifle's chamber as the spent shells were being ejected. Anyway, as I stated up-front, "personal preference." Besides, IMO 2" inches of barrel is a good thing if one is seeking a tad-bit more accuracy out of that configuration in this caliber.

as far as concept, the Dean's and the Mini-G differ mainly in their barrel lengths. having some experience with a 16" SA SOCOM, the blast out the muzzle is vigorous! I saw the Mini-G first and was thinking I wanted an 18" barrel. your observation of the gas/smoke coming from the chamber is cementing that decision for me.

I went with the 7.62 NATO chambering, simply because I wanted to shoot military ammunition out of this custom war horse. I could have had Dean cut the chamber for either three calibers (.308 Win, 7.62 NATO, or 30-06).

I'll have to do some research on this. milsurp .308 has pretty much all dried up. I have some other guns in.30-06, a bit of brass and loaded rounds and reloading recipes from when I shot DCM. this may push me toward keeping it as is but a .308 is certainly appealing.

Regarding the AmegaRanges versus the UltiMAK rail, I think it's a toss-up. Had I to do it all over again I likely would have selected the UltiMAK due to its slightly lower profile. At the time, Dean had done at least one other AmegaRanges picatinny mount, and he didn't recommend the UltiMAK to me. . . so perhaps he now has more of an opinion between the two mounts? Dean had to cut a small portion of my AmegaRanges mounting plate so that the tankerized op rod would clear it during cycling. Likely such is not required of the UltiMAK mounting and therefore it's less of a pain in the arse for Dean to install.

You can research and view how the two rails are mounted to the rifle, and draw your own conclusions as to which of the two, in the long run, would be sturdier.

I know neither of these rails. I was just reading off the Dean's Restoration site where he states he prefers the Ultimak because he feel it's a stronger attachment system. I was drawn to it because of the low height and wanted primarily to mount a T-1 so it could co-witness with the iron sights.

Regarding my Burris 2-7x32 Handgun Scope, I could absolutely NOT be more pleased with it. The 2 to 7 power magnification is helpful, and the crosshair retical feels right to me. But again, that's personal preference. I will say that I had to move the optic forward along the picatinny rail a wee-little, because my Garand's brass while ejecting was often smacking into the scope's housing (although it never hit the eye glass). The last/bottom provided photo of my Garand (mounted to my den wall) reflects where I finally placed the optic on the rail.

I first saw the pictures of the Mini-G and it really struck a chord with me as I don't see it as a precision rifle but as an intermediate range (1-500 yards) battle rifle. the red dot (T-1) struck me as completely practical but your enthusiasm for the for the magnified optic has me thinking...

I really appreciate your taking the time to explain your thinking. it's helped to clarify some of mine...

minimike

02-09-13, 08:01

I had Dean's Gun Restoration work on my grandfather's M1C and he did a great job!

NWPilgrim

02-09-13, 14:45

I have Nikon 2.5-8x3mm pistol scope mounted on my Garand with Ultimak rail. Primarily for the higher magnification to sight in test loads. It is fairly heavy forward of the receiver. It is OK on the bench but I would not want to lug it around in the woods.

I have a small Bushnell red dot on an M1 Carbine that would be great on the Garand for out to 200 yds. Same for the micro red dots. For 500 yds I would want the smallest scope possible, maybe a fixed 4x, or anything with a 25mm objective or smaller like the Weaver 1-3x.

ra2bach

02-09-13, 14:51

I could live with a Scout scope with a fixed 2.5 but it would have to have illum., otherwise it wouldn't be useful in the role I have in mind.

does anyone know if any of the scout or pistol types - either fixed power or variable - have illum ???

ra2bach

02-09-13, 14:52

I had Dean's Gun Restoration work on my grandfather's M1C and he did a great job!

yeah, Dean is just close enough for a day trip for me. he might be getting a call and a visit soon...

:dirol:

ra2bach

02-09-13, 14:54

without adding a poll to this thread, what say ye' - .30-06 or .308/7.62x51?..

alvincullumyork

02-09-13, 18:12

I have been looking at getting a Garand and even thought about a mini g and caliber switch but lately in addition to not finding any 9mm on the shelves there has been no 308 either but there has been 30 06 even Hornady Garand specific 30 06.

MistWolf

02-09-13, 18:22

There is an option to mount a holographic sight such as the Trijicon RMR without using a rail. It looks like a slick set up and I am contemplating one for an M14

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m353/joelogic/Hopco%20USA/431039a2.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x116/wensteph/photo-12.jpg

This setup would be much lighter than a rail and simpler to install. I believe it will also mount to a Garand rear sight

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m353/joelogic/Hopco%20USA/IMG_5544-1.jpg

http://m14forum.com/modern-m14/107947-hopco-usa-micro-red-dot-sight-mount-m1-m1a-m14-platform.html

alvincullumyork

02-09-13, 18:55

xrayoneone

02-09-13, 22:35

without adding a poll to this thread, what say ye' - .30-06 or .308/7.62x51?..

If you run 30-06 then you should get this http://www.schustermfg.com/

The 30-06 will beat up the oprod without it.

The 308 just runs a little softer and doesn't beat the oprod like the 06 will.

They are both loud and produce a spectacular fireball.

I roll with the 30-06 because I have a bunch of ammo and, well, it's a Garand.

MistWolf

02-09-13, 23:23

Would this eliminate the rear site?

It replaces the rear sight but can be removed and the rear sight re-installed. The adapter sits in the sight pocket and the windage and elevation knobs are retained

alvincullumyork

02-10-13, 00:53

It replaces the rear sight but can be removed and the rear sight re-installed. The adapter sits in the sight pocket and the windage and elevation knobs are retained

Is there any options for BUIS? how easy is the install/unistall?

MistWolf

02-10-13, 03:08

It should be no more difficult than disassembling/assembling the rear sight. It does not have a BUIS but the hood of the holo sight will act as a large ghost ring in the event the holo sight fails.
http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m353/joelogic/Hopco%20USA/IMG_5739.jpg

I have not seen one in person yet, but I have a rifle I'd like to install it on along with the Trijicon RMR. Unfortunately, I don't have the funds to do so. My research indicates the Trijicon RMR is the top performer among the mini sights.

That's about all I know cuz I am fresh out of fish. Click on the link in my earlier post. That thread will have more info and the contact info for the guys making it