View Full Version : Fired LAPD Officer Declares War on LAPD - 2 Dead So Far
NinjaMedic
02-07-13, 02:04
Here is an unusual threat element for you. Read this manifesto. Scary times for LAPD, this guy may actually have the background to carry through on some of his threats before they get him . . .
Manifesto (http://ktla.com/2013/02/06/read-christopher-dorners-so-called-manifesto/#axzz2KCCI0t9t)
LA Times Article (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/slaying-of-oc-basketball-coach-tied-to-ex-cops-hatred-of-father.html)
thopkins22
02-07-13, 02:31
That's nuts, I read his manifesto and he really does believe himself to be in the right which is scary. Nothing like going on a killing spree thinking it will prove you innocent and decent.
Hope they get him and get him quick.
When people lose everything, and they have nothing left to lose, they lose it.
They need to make this guy priority one, and they need to enlist any agency that could help catch him, because he doesn't sound like he's talking shit.
And I bet with the release of his manifesto, he will have some supporters. The longer it takes to catch him the worse it'll get.
Magic_Salad0892
02-07-13, 03:17
When people lose everything, and they have nothing left to lose, they lose it.
They need to make this guy priority one, and they need to enlist any agency that could help catch him, because he doesn't sound like he's talking shit.
And I bet with the release of his manifesto, he will have some supporters. The longer it takes to catch him the worse it'll get.
I was thinking just that.
NinjaMedic
02-07-13, 03:22
I was thinking just that.
Concur
This is going to get crazy.
I went to school at UCI and have some friends there still... I'm actually glad it's not a random murder spree. Selfish, I know.
mikelowrey
02-07-13, 03:58
They need to make this guy priority one Absolutely, just the fact he was in the deparmtent for a least 4 years, he does have an idea of how they work and knowing that gives him advantages.
He will have some supporters. Concur too.
Magic_Salad0892
02-07-13, 04:22
This is going to get crazy.
I went to school at UCI and have some friends there still... I'm actually glad it's not a random murder spree. Selfish, I know.
A random murder spree would make him easier to catch.
This guy knows exactly how not to get caught.
Sounds like the FBI is helping.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/07/suspect-identified-in-deaths-cal-state-coach-fiance/
Alaskapopo
02-07-13, 05:28
When people lose everything, and they have nothing left to lose, they lose it.
They need to make this guy priority one, and they need to enlist any agency that could help catch him, because he doesn't sound like he's talking shit.
And I bet with the release of his manifesto, he will have some supporters. The longer it takes to catch him the worse it'll get.
Very true. The most dangerous people are those with nothing left to lose. I hope they catch him soon without more lives lost.
Pat
Wow, that was a stunning and captivating read. Incredible in fact.
Obviously it's extremely bad that he killed the two individuals, but beyond that personally I find it hard to hate the man.
Magic_Salad0892
02-07-13, 07:32
Wow, that was a stunning and captivating read. Incredible in fact.
Obviously it's extremely bad that he killed the two individuals, but beyond that personally I find it hard to hate the man.
He shot two police officers. Killed one. And killed a couple.
Is he easier to hate now?
He shot two police officers. Killed one. And killed a couple.
Is he easier to hate now?
He did the wrong thing in a fight for justice, I know there is no justification for the killings.
Notice the remarks not just about whites harassing blacks, but also those mentioning senior black officers who abuse white officers out of retribution, lesbians who are out to show men they must be considered equal or else, routine lying to cover up crimes, etc. He is shining a light on rampant dysfunction.
Wow, that was a stunning and captivating read. Incredible in fact.
Obviously it's extremely bad that he killed the two individuals, but beyond that personally I find it hard to hate the man.
I think that you are assuming that he was telling the truth in that rant. I'm not willing to make that assumption given his recent behavior.
Voodoo_Man
02-07-13, 07:45
This is a very unfortunate situation.
This topic has been brought up several times in recent trainings and among small group conversations - how much damage, loss of life and total chaos can a police officer do with the right motivation?
I sincerely hope this entire situation is resolved peacefully without the loss of life, but I do not believe this individual will be someone who goes along with any process or abides by any command to stand down.
I think that you are assuming that he was telling the truth in that rant. I'm not willing to make that assumption given his recent behavior.
I am simply because we both know all of those things almost assuredly do in fact take place often.
Jesus, that sounds like the script to a movie. Pretty unsettling to read that.
Jesus, that sounds like the script to a movie. Pretty unsettling to read that.
What I was thinking...kind of a bit like "Law Abiding Citizen"
Hope I'm wrong, but I see this dragging out for the long haul...
I think that you are assuming that he was telling the truth in that rant. I'm not willing to make that assumption given his recent behavior.
I'm not going to assume that he was telling the truth, but nothing he wrote sounded implausible. He will have supporters because shit like what he described actually happens. I'm not condoning what he did by bringing external parties into it but too often we put officers on a pedestal because of the vital and necessary job they volunteer to do but as with anything else there's some real dirtbags on the job right along side the good guys.
Hmmm... Interesting story... If what he speaks in the manifesto is truth, then that sucks for him - but no reason to declare war on the LAPD, and it's certainly no reason to go shooting people...
Now sorry if I go off on a tangent here and get off topic a bit, but I have been the victim of police brutality (I was an innocent bystander in the wrong place at the wrong time, was mistaken for an alleged suspect, kicked and had my face stepped on and almost suffocated in fresh wet mud) and something needs to be done about it. I've had very expensive custom knives and flashlights stolen on routine traffic stops. Corruption runs deep in PDs all across the country. While I don't agree with his course of action, I do feel strongly that something needs to be done to better regulate law enforcement in the US. In 2001, I actually had a SWAT team bust into my apartment and hold me and my guests at gunpoint while they tore my residence to shreds looking for drugs - it turns out they got the wrong apartment - they had meant to kick my neighbor's door. Did I get compensated? No... I called everyone I could think of but I was just a kid and had no idea how to handle the situation. I was evicted from my apartment and lost my job all because of a LEO that couldn't read apartment numbers right. I believe that the police should have less interaction in our lives and focus more on stopping crime in the street... OK... rant: over...
I am simply because we both know all of those things almost assuredly do in fact take place often.
I hear you and I don't think that you are in any way rooting for him. I just cringe at anything that makes this guy sound in the least bit sympathetic. He has now murdered 3 innocent people. It is time for him to face swift justice.
Pretty Liberal guy, to boot. He even likes Michelle Obama's new bangs.
Can't verify the source, but here's the supposed uncensored manifesto: http://boywithgrenade.org/2013/02/07/christopher-dorners-manifesto/#more-15057
If you Google bits of it, you will find it in other locations as well.
If you had a well regulated AWB, this would not happen. The time is now to reinstitute a ban that will save lives. Why does any sportsman need a 30 round magazine for hunting? Why does anyone need a suppressor? Why does anyone need a AR15 rifle? This is the same small arms weapons system utilized in eradicating Al Qaeda, Taliban, and every enemy combatant since the Vietnam war. Don’t give me that crap that its not a select fire or full auto rifle like the DoD uses. That’s bullshit because troops who carry the M-4/M-16 weapon system for combat ops outside the wire rarely utilize the select fire function when in contact with enemy combatants. The use of select fire probably isn’t even 1% in combat. So in essence, the AR-15 semiautomatic rifle is the same as the M-4/M-16. These do not need to be purchased as easily as walking to your local Walmart or striking the enter key on your keyboard to “add to cart”. All the firearms utilized in my activities are registered to me and were legally purchased at gun stores and private party transfers. All concealable weapons (pistols) were also legally register in my name at police stations or FFL’s. Unfortunately, are you aware that I obtained class III weapons (suppressors) without a background check thru NICS or DROS completely LEGALLY several times? I was able to use a trust account that I created on quicken will maker and a $10 notary charge at a mailbox etc. to obtain them legally. Granted, I am not a felon, nor have a DV misdemeanor conviction or active TRO against me on a NCIC file. I can buy any firearm I want, but should I be able to purchase these class III weapons (SBR’s, and suppressors) without a background check and just a $10 notary signature on a quicken will maker program? The answer is NO. I’m not even a resident of the state i purchased them in. Lock n Load just wanted money so they allow you to purchase class III weapons with just a notarized trust, military ID. Shame on you, Lock n Load. NFA and ATF need new laws and policies that do not allow loopholes such as this. In the end, I hope that you will realize that the small arms I utilize should not be accessed with the ease that I obtained them. Who in there right mind needs a ****ing silencer!!! who needs a freaking SBR AR15? No one. No more Virginia Tech, Columbine HS, Wisconsin temple, Aurora theatre, Portland malls, Tucson rally, Newtown Sandy Hook. Whether by executive order or thru a bi-partisan congress an assault weapons ban needs to be re-instituted. Period!!!
Mia Farrow said it best. “Gun control is no longer debatable, it’s not a conversation, its a moral mandate.”
Sen. Feinstein, you are doing the right thing in leading the re-institution of a national AWB. Never again should any public official state that their prayers and thoughts are with the family. That has become cliche’ and meaningless. Its time for action. Let this be your legacy that you bestow to America. Do not be swayed by obstacles, antagaonist, and naysayers. Remember the innocent children at Austin, Kent, Stockton, Fullerton, San Diego, Iowa City, Jonesboro, Columbine, Nickel Mines, Blacksburg, Springfield, Red Lake, Chardon, Aurora, and Newtown. Make sure this never happens again!!!
In my cache you will find several small arms. In the cache, Bushmaster firearms, Remington precision rifles, and AAC Suppressors (silencers). All of these small arms are manufactured by Cerberus/Freedom Group. The same company responsible for the Portland mall shooting, Webster , NY, and Sandy Hook massacre.
You disrespect the office of the POTUS/Presidency and Commander in Chief. You call him Kenyan, mongroid, halfrican, muslim, and FBHO when in essence you are to address him as simply, President. The same as you did to President George W. Bush and all those in the highest ranking position of our land before him. Just as I always have. You question his birth certificate, his educational and professional accomplishments, and his judeo-christian beliefs. You make disparaging remarks about his dead parents. You never questioned the fact that his former opponent, the honorable Senator John McCain, was not born in the CONUS or that Bush had a C average in his undergrad. Electoral Candidates children (Romney) state they want to punch the president in the face during debates with no formal repercussions. No one even questioned the fact that the son just made a criminal threat toward the President. You call his wife a Wookie. Off the record, I love your new bangs, Mrs. Obama. A woman whose professional and educational accomplishments are second to none when compared to recent First wives. You call his supporters, whether black, brown, yellow, or white, leeches, FSA, welfare recipients, and ni$&er lovers. You say this openly without any discretion. Before you start with your argument that you believe I would vote for Obama because he has the same skin color as me, **** you. I didn’t vote in this last election as my choice of candidate, John Huntsman, didn’t win the primary candidacy for his party. Mr. President, I haven’t agreed with all of your decisions but of course I haven’t agreed with all of your predecessors decisions. I think you’ve done a hell of a job with what you have been dealt and how you have managed it. I shed a tear the night you were initially elected President in 2008. I never thought that day would occur. A black man elected president in the U.S. in my lifetime. I cracked a smiled when you were re-elected in 2012 because I really didn’t think you were going to pull that one off. Romney, stop being a sore loser. You could’ve exited graciously and still contributed significantly to public service, not now. Mr. President, get back to work. Many want to see you fail as they have stated so many times previously. Unfortunately, if you fail, the U.S. fails but your opponents do not concern themselves about the big picture. Do not forget your commitment to transparency in your administration. Sometimes I believe your administration forgets that. America, you will realize today and tomorrow that this world is made up of all human beings who have the same general needs and wants in life for themselves, their kin, community, and state. That is the freedom to LIVE and LOVE. They may eat different foods, enjoy different music, have different dialects, or speak a second language, but in essence are no different from you and I. This is America. We are not a perfect sovereign country as we have our own flaws but we are the closest that will ever exist.
I hear you and I don't think that you are in any way rooting for him. I just cringe at anything that makes this guy sound in the least bit sympathetic. He has now murdered 3 innocent people. It is time for him to face swift justice.
Correct, I am in no way hoping he will continue successfully. He needs to be stopped and made massive mistakes of his own, placing himself beneath those he so disliked.
If he would have written the manifesto and stuck to torching empty patrol cars in the lot at night maybe I'd say let him draw attention to these legitimate issues for a little longer, but now he's just making everything worse and inflicting eternal pain on the innocent.
This is the first I've really heard about this, and it explains a lot. The first story I had read about the basketball coach being shot was all over the online news, and then it just disappeared. Apparently it's 'news' lately when some crazy civilian goes on a 'shooting spree,' but they sure don't like to talk about it when the shooter is a cop. Puts a huge dent in that whole 'only cops and soldiers should have guns' gambit.
Magic_Salad0892
02-07-13, 09:15
Pretty Liberal guy, to boot. He even likes Michelle Obama's new bangs.
Can't verify the source, but here's the supposed uncensored manifesto: http://boywithgrenade.org/2013/02/07/christopher-dorners-manifesto/#more-15057
If you Google bits of it, you will find it in other locations as well.
He is our enemy in every way.
Apperantly he doesn't want us armed so he can just attack people without having to worry about them fighting back.
Cocksucker. I hope they don't kill him. I want to see him go through the legal system. Life in prison. I hear they don't like ex-cops there.
Watch how this will play out in the gun debates. It will be deemed as a sound reason as to why civilians shouldn't be restricted.
NoveskeFan
02-07-13, 09:34
Watch how this will play out in the gun debates. It will be deemed as a sound reason as to why civilians shouldn't be restricted.
That's what I thought when I first heard about this. This nut is bragging about his guns and Class III gear, saying he bought it all legally, but that no one needs it.
He is exactly the reason people need 30 round magazines and "military style" rifles.
I read that he shot three cops this morning, killing one. I hope they frag his ass soon.
That's what I thought when I first heard about this. This nut is bragging about his guns and Class III gear, saying he bought it all legally, but that no one needs it.
He is exactly the reason people need 30 round magazines and "military style" rifles.
I read that he shot three cops this morning, killing one. I hope they frag his ass soon.
I think it can be spun just as easily the other way, unfortunately.
NoveskeFan
02-07-13, 09:42
I think it can be spun just as easily the other way, unfortunately.
True. They'll use it to say even the police shouldn't be armed. "It works in the U.K.":(
The real issue of mental health will keep getting looked over. I don't buy that this guy just got fed up and "cracked". It might make me look like an ass, but I think this guy might have underlying issues that went unnoticed/untreated.
I think it can be spun just as easily the other way, unfortunately.
I don't see how that could be possible, unless you mean restricting law enforcement as well.
True. They'll use it to say even the police shouldn't be armed. "It works in the U.K.":(
The real issue of mental health will keep getting looked over. I don't buy that this guy just got fed up and "cracked". It might make me look like an ass, but I think this guy might have underlying issues that went unnoticed/untreated.
I think it's completely possible that a person without underlying issues can be pushed to the breaking point and start down a completely irrational path. He probably feels like he's cutting out the infection; he's tried doing things by the book, this is the only option left.
That's the scary thing, why we want to believe he has some inherent mental illness. We don't want to believe a regular person can be pushed that far.
I think it's completely possible that a person without underlying issues can be pushed to the breaking point and start down a completely irrational path. He probably feels like he's cutting out the infection; he's tried doing things by the book, this is the only option left.
That's the scary thing, why we want to believe he has some inherent mental illness. We don't want to believe a regular person can be pushed that far.
Well, he might be severely depressed at the least:
If possible, I want my brain preserved for science/research to study the effects of severe depression on an individual’s brain. Since 6/26/08 when I was relieved of duty and 1/2/09 when I was terminated I have been afflicted with severe depression. I’ve had two CT scans during my lifetime that are in my medical record at Kaiser Permanente. Both are from concussions resulting from playing football. The first one was in high school, 10/96. The second was in college and occurred in 10/99. Both were conducted at Kaiser Permanente hospitals in LA/Orange county. These two CT scans should give a good baseline for my brain activity before severe depression began in late 2008.
This is the first I've really heard about this, and it explains a lot. The first story I had read about the basketball coach being shot was all over the online news, and then it just disappeared. Apparently it's 'news' lately when some crazy civilian goes on a 'shooting spree,' but they sure don't like to talk about it when the shooter is a cop. Puts a huge dent in that whole 'only cops and soldiers should have guns' gambit.
I wonder if that'll stop the police exemption in the NY SAFE act that they're working to add.
Anyone know what he did in the navy?
The one link showed him as a Lt wearing BDU's, which isn't that common.
NoveskeFan
02-07-13, 09:54
I think it's completely possible that a person without underlying issues can be pushed to the breaking point and start down a completely irrational path. He probably feels like he's cutting out the infection; he's tried doing things by the book, this is the only option left.
That's the scary thing, why we want to believe he has some inherent mental illness. We don't want to believe a regular person can be pushed that far.
Yeah, I guess so. I can't imagine reaching that point. Reading through some of his manifesto, it does seem like he believes he is the victim.
I don't see how that could be possible, unless you mean restricting law enforcement as well.
I'm not sure how anyone can believe that the media can't or won't spin anything they want to...and have the GP gobble it up.
It would be too easy to say something as elementary as "see, even a normal law abiding citizen can snap and kill people with these weapons of mass destruction...we need to take these weapons of war off of our streets!"
See how easy that was...:rolleyes:
This is a very unfortunate situation.
This topic has been brought up several times in recent trainings and among small group conversations - how much damage, loss of life and total chaos can a police officer do with the right motivation?
I sincerely hope this entire situation is resolved peacefully without the loss of life, but I do not believe this individual will be someone who goes along with any process or abides by any command to stand down.
According to KTLA news (local LA channel), Dorner was a Navy Reservist and served in Afghanistan. He also received sniper training as well. A internal LAPD newsletter showed him pictured with the prior Chief and was noted at the time to be the first active LAPD officer tasked-out to the military.
If LAPD finds him first, then it is very unlikely he will survive the encounter. The woman killed was the daughter of a former Officer from their organization.
Magic_Salad0892
02-07-13, 09:57
it does seem like he believes he is the victim.
Which (if I remember correctly) is the sign of certain mental illnesses.
Which (if I remember correctly) is the sign of certain mental illnesses.
Only if it isn't true...
Looks like the cops are being careless to say the least. Shooting at two women in a car similar to his that was delivering newspapers. That seems extremely dangerous and surely violates their departments policies.
This guy seems like a whacked out loon, but just remember, when some guy who IS justified goes off the deep end, he will be painted as crazy by the media machine that supports the government. Count on that...
Can you imagine how the the Minutemen from the 1700's would have been portrayed in today's media?
He probably feels like he's cutting out the infection; he's tried doing things by the book, this is the only option left.
[snip]
We don't want to believe a regular person can be pushed that far.
We all have a limit of how much abuse we can take before responding with violence. How many on this very forum have contemplated what they may be forced to do if somehow they managed to ram through a confiscatory ban and they tried to enforce it?
Police acting reckless, opening fire on innocent civilians
As authorities swarmed the area, two officer-involved shootings occurred in Torrance after police came across vehicles they thought might be Dorner's.
The first Torrance incident occurred about 5:20 a.m. in the 19500 block of Redbeam Avenue in Torrance, Lt. Devin Chase said. That incident involved Los Angeles police detectives from the Hollywood division, sources said.
Two people were struck by gunfire and transported to an area hospital with unknown injuries, Chase said. No officers were injured.
The second incident, which involved Torrance police officers, occurred at Flagler Lane and Beryl Street about 5:45 a.m. No injuries were reported in that incident.
Chase said both incidents involved vehicles matching the description of the one sought in connection with Dorner
Snippet from this article
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-lapd-cop-manhunt.html
Police acting reckless, opening fire on innocent civilians
I don't believe anyone is even pretending that they'll try to take him into custody.
Which (if I remember correctly) is the sign of certain mental illnesses.
As someone once said, "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me."
I don't believe anyone is even pretending that they'll try to take him into custody.
So that authoizes LETHAL FORCE on innocent bystanders!?!?
Do you live in Bizarro World?
How is that protecting and serving?
Whats that whole be sure of your target and whats behind it thing about again?
So that authoizes LETHAL FORCE on innocent bystanders!?!?
Do you live in Bizarro World?
Who said that? I'm just saying that the LAPD is out to kill him just as much as he is out to kill them. Cops firing into cars that "fit the description" is a good indicator of that IMO.
Who said that? I'm just saying that the LAPD is out to kill him just as much as he is out to kill them. Cops firing into cars that "fit the description" is a good indicator of that IMO.
To make sure Im not misunderstanding, youre ok with them firing at cars that fit the description?
To make sure Im not misunderstanding, youre ok with them firing at cars that fit the description?
You are misunderstanding; no, I am not.
I'm a pale ass red head. having said that, if I had a Nissan Titan, I think I'd leave it at home.
We all have a limit of how much abuse we can take before responding with violence. How many on this very forum have contemplated what they may be forced to do if somehow they managed to ram through a confiscatory ban and they tried to enforce it?
Exactly.
You are misunderstanding; no, I am not.
Gotcha. Good.
This reminds me of "Falling Down" with Michael Douglas... dude just had enough and said the hell with it.
I'm predicting that they paint this guy as being out of his mind, and after that, IF the questions get asked that he raised, at least part of what he ranted about in his letter ends up being true.
Who knows if his complaints are true, partially true, or outright delusions... but this guys individual war against one of the biggest police forces in the country isn't likely to end well.
Then again, Eric Rudolph evaded capture for quite some time...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph
thopkins22
02-07-13, 11:22
Found out....
"I lost my position as a Commanding Officer of a Naval Security Forces reserve unit at NAS Fallon because of the LAPD," he wrote in his manifesto.
I'm not sure how anyone can believe that the media can't or won't spin anything they want to...and have the GP gobble it up.
It would be too easy to say something as elementary as "see, even a normal law abiding citizen can snap and kill people with these weapons of mass destruction...we need to take these weapons of war off of our streets!"
See how easy that was...:rolleyes:
I'm sorry but despite rolling your eyes you haven't made a case. We already know that someone who has legal possession of a weapon can kill, this has very little to do with the primary surrounding implication of this specific incident.
Again, the point that should be much more relevant here is that if you disarm the public they are far more vulnerable to being victimized by the authorities. This whether they are acting upon orders or as in this case have gone rogue.
Edit: By the way, I was never referring to how the media will portray this, but rather how those on our side will likely utilize it.
I'm sorry but despite rolling your eyes you haven't made a case. We already know that someone who has legal possession of a weapon can kill, this has very little to do with the primary surrounding implication of this specific incident.
Again, the point that should be much more relevant here is that if you disarm the public they are far more vulnerable to being victimized by the authorities. This whether they are acting upon orders or as in this case have gone rogue.
Edit: By the way, I was never referring to how the media will portray this, but rather how those on our side will likely utilize it.
The "rolleyes" weren't directed at you...more the hypothetical situation of the media using this against law abiding gun owners
It appears we were talking about two different things anyway...
Mauser KAR98K
02-07-13, 11:57
When a Sheepdog goes rogue, time to put down the Sheepdog.
Looking at the dates this guy has posted, it all happened 4-5 years ago? Why do this now? Was he stock piling, planning, or running the legal system before it failed him?
I think this will be spun not to our advantage. I am thinking he got this stuff legally as a citizen, but he could have done it on the department's letter head.
I thought .50s were banned in CA?
If I was an officer right now, damn the laws, I'd be arming my family until this wolf was caught.
He lost his job and clearance with the Navy because he started to make threats and harassing LAPD personnel involved with his termination and one of those involved was an officer with the U.S Army (Reserve) who was an O-6. He Then made it known that this guy was a soup sandwich and the Navy took action.
Found out....
"I lost my position as a Commanding Officer of a Naval Security Forces reserve unit at NAS Fallon because of the LAPD," he wrote in his manifesto.
If you read carefully you will see that he purchased the stuff out of state. He could have used his military ID as well and purchased the items in a variety of places.
One of the stores involved appears to be in Henderson, NV.
When a Sheepdog goes rogue, time to put down the Sheepdog.
Looking at the dates this guy has posted, it all happened 4-5 years ago? Why do this now? Was he stock piling, planning, or running the legal system before it failed him?
I think this will be spun not to our advantage. I am thinking he got this stuff legally as a citizen, but he could have done it on the department's letter head.
I thought .50s were banned in CA?
If I was an officer right now, damn the laws, I'd be arming my family until this wolf was caught.
Wow, Cali cops have fired on TWO blue Nissan pickup trucks that were completely innocent and caused 3 GSWs on 2 bystanders.
Or maybe it because the police in general (Torrance PD isn't LAPD) are concerned that this guy is armed and if the occupants of said vehicle didn't immediately comply with them or they thought there was "furtive movements" etc.. they chose to engage rather than be fired upon.
When people are armed and amped on adrenaline shit happens.
Who said that? I'm just saying that the LAPD is out to kill him just as much as he is out to kill them. Cops firing into cars that "fit the description" is a good indicator of that IMO.
crusader377
02-07-13, 12:26
I think this is a terrible situation all the way around.
First off and by far the most important is this lunatic has to be stopped and taken off the streets.
Second, If even 1/4 of the things about the LAPD are true that he listed in his manifesto the LAPD has serious issues with their culture and that needs to be addressed.
Third, whats up with the poor disicpline of some LAPD members who are getting a bit trigger happy and shooting innocent bystandards?
Hopefully, this situation can be resolved quickly and peacefully without any further loss of life.
If you read carefully you will see that he purchased the stuff out of state. He could have used his military ID as well and purchased the items in a variety of places.
One of the stores involved appears to be in Henderson, NV.
Lock N Load is one of the better ones here in town. I hope this wingnut gets caught or smoked before he, or the cops, shoots anyone else.
Or maybe it because the police in general (Torrance PD isn't LAPD) are concerned that this guy is armed and if the occupants of said vehicle didn't immediately comply with them or they thought there was "furtive movements" etc.. they chose to engage rather than be fired upon.
When people are armed and amped on adrenaline shit happens.
I was thinking about that exact thing. Some poor schmoe in their Titan just having a normal day all of sudden has some orders barked at them by police for seemingly no reason at all. You can bet those individuals had a few seconds of WTF and had to second guess what was happening. With the given information to the officers involved, I'm sure any sense of non-compliance of the occupants would cause the police to act.
I was thinking about that exact thing. Some poor schmoe in their Titan just having a normal day all of sudden has some orders barked at them by police for seemingly no reason at all. You can bet those individuals had a few seconds of WTF and had to second guess what was happening. With the given information to the officers involved, I'm sure any sense of non-compliance of the occupants would cause the police to act.
I think you mean violate the rules of gun safety and kill innocent people.
ETA - I'm not trying to bait you or be a dick but I think their actions are inexcusable.
NinjaMedic
02-07-13, 12:47
Anyone know what he did in the navy?
The one link showed him as a Lt wearing BDU's, which isn't that common.
This is from CNN - "Dorner is a former U.S. Navy Reserve lieutenant who worked with river warfare units and a mobile inshore undersea warfare unit, among other assignments, according to Pentagon records obtained by CNN. He also provided security on oil platforms in Iraq.
He was rated as a rifle marksman and pistol expert, according to the records."
Sounds like at least intel guy supporting NSW and SWCC not sure what kind of direct action training he would receive . . .
How so? Were you there? I wasn't either, but I have been in those situations and as someone who has been shot by a douchebag I can completely understand how it can happen.
LET ME BE CLEAR- I AM NOT EXCUSING THE ACTIONS- I am saying that we don't the circumstances as to what went down or how it unfolded exactly.
I think you mean violate the rules of gun safety and kill innocent people.
ETA - I'm not trying to bait you or be a dick but I think their actions are inexcusable.
We worked closely with these units when I was in the USCG and we were actually doing the oil platform security back in 04-05 when I was over there.
They get more firearms training than the average bear, but they are far from NAVSPECWAR or anything else.
This is from CNN - "Dorner is a former U.S. Navy Reserve lieutenant who worked with river warfare units and a mobile inshore undersea warfare unit, among other assignments, according to Pentagon records obtained by CNN. He also provided security on oil platforms in Iraq.
He was rated as a rifle marksman and pistol expert, according to the records."
Sounds like at least intel guy supporting NSW and SWCC not sure what kind of direct action training he would receive . . .
How so? Were you there? I wasn't either, but I have been in those situations and as someone who has been shot by a douchebag I can completely understand how it can happen.
LET ME BE CLEAR- I AM NOT EXCUSING THE ACTIONS- I am saying that we don't the circumstances as to what went down or how it unfolded exactly.
How so? "Be sure of your target..."
And when you say you've been in those types of situations do you mean CONUS pulling over a civilian vehicle as a LEO? We're not talking overseas hunting for bad dudes.
I think you mean violate the rules of gun safety and kill innocent people.
ETA - I'm not trying to bait you or be a dick but I think their actions are inexcusable.
No worries. I fully understand where you are coming from and am in NO WAY attempting excuse them either.
Yes, as in knocking on doors and looking for people with guns and traffic stops as a reserve police officer.
"be sure of your target"... they stopped a vehicle, the occupants may have made movements which indicated a threat and they were fired on. Again, I'm not saying that it was justified, but YOU and I were not there and we don't know what dynamics were involved.
How so? "Be sure of your target..."
And when you say you've been in those types of situations do you mean CONUS pulling over a civilian vehicle as a LEO? We're not talking overseas hunting for bad dudes.
NinjaMedic
02-07-13, 13:05
Here is what scares me, I think we can agree that this forum represents a good cross section of the law abiding gun owners in our community. By and large I dont recall ever hearing support for a cop killer on here. The fact that this guy's "crazy" manifesto can garner even a minor amount of understanding or support leads me to believe that in other circles than ours this will gain a hell of a lot of support . . .
Wow, Cali cops have fired on TWO blue Nissan pickup trucks that were completely innocent and caused 3 GSWs on 2 bystanders.
The women delivering papers were in a Toyota Tacoma.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html
Police officers shooting into the vehicles of innocents without confirming a threat is completely reckless and negligent regardless of any and all circumstances.
He did the wrong thing in a fight for justice, I know there is no justification for the killings.
Notice the remarks not just about whites harassing blacks, but also those mentioning senior black officers who abuse white officers out of retribution, lesbians who are out to show men they must be considered equal or else, routine lying to cover up crimes, etc. He is shining a light on rampant dysfunction.
Yep, he violated the First Rule of Retribution.
1. Never harm the innocent.
If you can't exact actions without harming the innocent then YOU yourself have become the guilty and deserve retribution. This is why you sometimes must wait a LONG TIME for an opportunity to take actions which won't harm any innocent persons.
Here is what scares me, I think we can agree that this forum represents a good cross section of the law abiding gun owners in our community. By and large I dont recall ever hearing support for a cop killer on here. The fact that this guy's "crazy" manifesto can garner even a minor amount of understanding or support leads me to believe that in other circles than ours this will gain a hell of a lot of support . . .
I that's probably more of an indictment of the state of the relationship between law enforcement agencies/government in general and the civilian population than anything else.
How much experience do you have? Are you aware that the vehicle was in the neighborhood of a person who was listed on his "manifesto" and that it was dark? Apparently the vehicle did not stop.
Police officers shooting into the vehicles of innocents without confirming a threat is completely reckless and negligent regardless of any and all circumstances.
http://imageshack.us/a/img692/4024/6a00d8341c630a53ef017d4z.jpg
More than a couple spent rounds...
http://imageshack.us/a/img706/4216/latbcpixla0008167035201.jpg
Crow Hunter
02-07-13, 13:27
http://imageshack.us/a/img692/4024/6a00d8341c630a53ef017d4z.jpg
So they were shooting this vehicle from behind?
If I were a lone black man driving a PU truck that even remotely looked blue, I would get the hell off the streets ASAP!
crusader377
02-07-13, 13:33
How much experience do you have? Are you aware that the vehicle was in the neighborhood of a person who was listed on his "manifesto" and that it was dark? Apparently the vehicle did not stop.
This isn't Iraq or Afghanistan. This is America and LEO need to know who they are shooting at before they pull the trigger. It doesn't matter that it was dark or the vehicle was similiar to the vehicle used by this deranged individual LEO needs to clearly identify the threat beforing taking action.
How much experience do you have? Are you aware that the vehicle was in the neighborhood of a person who was listed on his "manifesto" and that it was dark? Apparently the vehicle did not stop.
We can all see how this type of thing was justifiably problematic overseas, but here in residential areas?
Anyway we should let it go or the thread is doomed.
http://imageshack.us/a/img692/4024/6a00d8341c630a53ef017d4z.jpg
Tell me that wasn't on of the mistaken vehicles. If so...Wow.
Read what I posted. I never once said anything about Iraq and Afghanistan.
This isn't Iraq or Afghanistan. This is America and LEO need to know who they are shooting at before they pull the trigger. It doesn't matter that it was dark or the vehicle was similiar to the vehicle used by this deranged individual LEO needs to clearly identify the threat beforing taking action.
Crow Hunter
02-07-13, 13:39
This isn't Iraq or Afghanistan. This is America and LEO need to know who they are shooting at before they pull the trigger. It doesn't matter that it was dark or the vehicle was similiar to the vehicle used by this deranged individual LEO needs to clearly identify the threat beforing taking action.
Not only that, but it is pretty apparent from the pictures that many of the rounds were fired from BEHIND the vehicle. Since most people don't drive down the street backwards it must have passed the position of the shooters before they opened fire.
I understand they are jumpy, but I would think (not having any anti-ambush/checkpoint training) that you would start shooting at a suspicious vehicle that failed to stop after you challenged it BEFORE it drove past your position.
But I defer to those with more training than me on this stuff.
Tell me that wasn't on of the mistaken vehicles. If so...Wow.
It sure is! Freaking morons mistaking a Taco for a Titan. Soooo...they could see movement that made them suspicious enough to fire 30 plus rounds into the cab,but didnt see where it freaking says Tacoma on the tailgate?!?!
These officers need to be charged. Is there such a thing as negligent attempted homicide?
It sure is! Freaking morons mistaking a Taco for a Titan. Soooo...they could see movement that made them suspicious enough to fire 30 plus rounds into the cab,but didnt see where it freaking says Tacoma on the tailgate?!?!
These officers need to be charged. Is there such a thing as negligent attempted homicide?
At least it's a Toyota I guess? Something tells me if any one of us put 30 rounds into a car, it wouldn't have looked like that. I'm guessing the single shot in the mudflap was not intentional. So if there are at least 30 rounds in the car, it I bet another 10-20 didn't even hit the car. That's ****ed up, consider we would all in jail awaiting to get bent over by even a jr prosecutor.
Thank goodness for police acting with immunity to things that would lock the citizen up forever.
At least it's a Toyota I guess? Something tells me if any one of us put 30 rounds into a car, it wouldn't have looked like that. I'm guessing the single shot in the mudflap was not intentional. So if there are at least 30 rounds in the car, it I bet another 10-20 didn't even hit the car. That's ****ed up, consider we would all in jail awaiting to get bent over by even a jr prosecutor.
Thank goodness for police acting with immunity to things that would lock the citizen up forever.
No no no. The APB is for a silver or blue Nissan Titan.
If i knew there was a crazed gunman looking for me and i knew what kind of vehicle he was in, i think any reasonable person would familiarize themselves intimately with that vehicle.
Also looking at the picture, the tint on the windows is so dark, how could they positively ID the passengers to the point they were willing to fire? Also look at the location of the shots, numerous rounds at where the heads of the occupants would be. Also, it appears there are three empty mags outside the driver's door. So he reloaded his gun 3 times without recieving any return fire? How is that not excessive force?
This is a freaking mess
Can't imagine the house in the background avoided being hit.
No no no. The APB is for a silver or blue Nissan Titan.
If i knew there was a crazed gunman looking for me and i knew what kind of vehicle he was in, i think any reasonable person would familiarize themselves intimately with that vehicle.
I haven't watched the news lately...has this been getting national attention? Or is this being swept under the rug?
GeorgiaBoy
02-07-13, 14:07
http://imageshack.us/a/img692/4024/6a00d8341c630a53ef017d4z.jpg
Inexcusable. Firing on the [wrong] vehicle 20+ times in a residential neighborhood from BEHIND going down a neighborhood street in CONUS is NOT justified, no matter which way you spin it.
You can see a house not even 30-50 yards ahead of the vehicle. There could have been children in the yard or right inside the house that could have been shot by stray bullets. :angry:
It sure is! Freaking morons mistaking a Taco for a Titan. Soooo...they could see movement that made them suspicious enough to fire 30 plus rounds into the cab,but didnt see where it freaking says Tacoma on the tailgate?!?!
These officers need to be charged. Is there such a thing as negligent attempted homicide?
At least some of it was likely buckshot.
And we ought to lay off the MMQB'ing for now so that we can discuss this and not deal with a bunch of anti-LE rigamarole.
I haven't watched the news lately...has this been getting national attention? Or is this being swept under the rug?
National attention, biggest story of the day
I'm guessing the single shot in the mudflap was not intentional.
It probably was. To flat tires. I don't understand all the activity on the passenger side though. If they are looking for one bad guy and he was driving.....
It probably was. To flat tires. I don't understand all the activity on the passenger side though. If they are looking for one bad guy and he was driving.....
You think they can aim at the tires... while simultaneously having no sense to see who they are firing at?
No doubt about anyone black driving a pickup in LA. Rent a car today!
As to some shots being buckshot, there are a least 38 evidence tags on the ground, my guess is mostly handgun. How did the two women only get shot in the hand and in the back? Seems like they should be dead.
my guess is mostly handgun.
Isn't that 3 red shotshells on the ground by driver door? It sort of looks like 3 patterns too. Tailgate, passenger, driver
Yeah, how they are not dead.... wow.
NinjaMedic
02-07-13, 14:36
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/20130207_094910_aatruck4_GALLERY_zpsc2de552c.jpg
Dorner's FB Page (https://www.facebook.com/chris.dorner.7)
sinlessorrow
02-07-13, 14:42
Completely insane. These police shooting innocent people who are drivig trucks....not identical trucks..just trucks. Should lose their job and be tried like any of us would be.
Scared or not there is no excuse for shooting first and askig questions later. Are we still in America or did I get teleported to Iraq?
This is another reason I handle my own home situations, the cops are more likely to shoot me than the bad guy.
At least some of it was likely buckshot.
And we ought to lay off the MMQB'ing for now so that we can discuss this and not deal with a bunch of anti-LE rigamarole.
so now its anti LEO to look at that photos and think WOW that is over reacting big time
no way should any citizen ever have to be afraid of being shot and killed over the color of a vehicle which is the case here !
Completely insane. These police shooting innocent people who are drivig trucks....not identical trucks..just trucks. Should lose their job and be tried like any of us would be.
Scared or not there is no excuse for shooting first and askig questions later. Are we still in America or did I get teleported to Iraq?
This is another reason I handle my own home situations, the cops are more likely to shoot me than the bad guy.
I had not seen anything on the news regarding these proxy shootings until I saw it in this thread.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/20130207_094910_aatruck4_GALLERY_zpsc2de552c.jpg
Dorner's FB Page (https://www.facebook.com/chris.dorner.7)
Did they shoot at this one too? The news tells me the AR-15 could blow the wheel off like that.
I can not think of a worse incident for gun control advocates. One of the "only ones" snaps and other "only ones" go batshit insane trying to murder him.
Here's the Nissan... I mean Honda they shot.
http://imageshack.us/a/img841/6061/lamemanhuntexlapdoffice.jpg
Well that just about covers every other Jap small sized pickup on the market EXCEPT the actual one they are looking for...third time's a charm? :rolleyes:
Un-fu*%in-real!
NinjaMedic
02-07-13, 14:54
Higher Res
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/pphp_zpsd47ed614.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/pphp2_zps974bfb28.jpg
OIS #1 -
Blue Tacoma
0530hrs
19500-blk Redbeam Ave
2 Female Victims (Back/Hand) Delivering Newspapers
OIS #2 -
Black Honda Ridgeline
0545hrs
Flagler Ln/Beryl St
No injuries reported, unk # of occupants
NinjaMedic
02-07-13, 14:57
Interesting photos from his FB:
Uploaded 22 January 2013
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/304159_104694453042839_1745174670_n_zpsa71203f3.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/72870_104650633047221_176717083_n_zps8c0e4bf2.jpg
http://www.trbimg.com/img-511411f8/turbine/la-dorner400x225-20130207/600
Can anyone explain this on LATimes front page currently? I'm guessing stock photo that has nothing to do with this, being the cars I've seen do not say Riverside on them. The linked video has someone stating he is dangerous because of "tactical training"... Expect a push against civilians seeking trainers I'd bet.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef017ee84e7594970d-640wi
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef017c36ab29d8970b-640wi
The police have their AR's out, although I'm not sure what's going on with that first one. Grey, mini-rds?
Snip....The police have their AR's out, although I'm not sure what's going on with that first one. Grey, mini-rds?
Ruger Mini-14
so now its anti LEO to look at that photos and think WOW that is over reacting big time
Nope, just want the thread to remain open:
Guidance for starting new law enforcement related threads (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=69588)
sinlessorrow
02-07-13, 15:08
Or maybe it because the police in general (Torrance PD isn't LAPD) are concerned that this guy is armed and if the occupants of said vehicle didn't immediately comply with them or they thought there was "furtive movements" etc.. they chose to engage rather than be fired upon.
When people are armed and amped on adrenaline shit happens.
So its ok to go apeshit on a vehicle that does no match the description aside from being a truck?
Crow Hunter
02-07-13, 15:09
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef017ee84e7594970d-640wi
The police have their AR's out, although I'm not sure what's going on with that first one. Grey, mini-rds?
That is a Ruger Mini-14. I think that is just the stainless receiver. If that is what you are mentioning.
ETA: I don't believe that is LAPD either. Isn't that a San Bernadino county sheriff uniform?
NinjaMedic
02-07-13, 15:20
Regardless of your concerns you have to sympathize and understand that this:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/i-8DcNmhx-L_zps2c8258f4.jpg
Will inevitably lead to this:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/i-ZGbB2bF-L_zpse8f92bb3.jpg
JBecker 72
02-07-13, 15:20
Wow... This whole story, the guys manifesto, the way the police are handling it... All I can say is wow.
This is sage advice fellas. This thread is teetering on the edge of getting closed.
A couple police officers may have made a poor decision(s). They may also have very compelling stories about why those trucks got shot up. News stories are horribly, horribly inaccurate -- as we all know.
Tread lightly gentlemen.
Nope, just want the thread to remain open:
Guidance for starting new law enforcement related threads (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=69588)
Wow... This whole story, the guys manifesto, the way the police are handling it... All I can say is wow.
Reading through it there is certainly alot to try and consume. Hopefully they find him and put him down sooner than later.
News just posted something about manhunt. Loading something into helicopter. Something about a car blown out... I missed the report but perhaps they have found him or some leads.
-------ETA:
UPDATE: Authorities have confirmed a truck found burning in the San Bernardino Mountains belongs to Christopher Dorner.
A local law enforcement source said the truck, found near Big Bear Lake, is the one police across California have been searching for.
Authorities believe Dorner is somewhere in the mountains nearby.
Guests at a Big Bear ski resort were told to stay in their rooms for time being.
A local website in Big Bear reported a strike team was in place and a command post was being set up.
------------------------
As a reminder when the beltway sniper was out... all we heard was white van, white van, white van... ended up being a non-white sedan.
ETA2:
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Big-Bear-Truck-Fire-Christopher-Jordan-Dorner-190268041.html
I certainly hope that the 2 cases of mistaken identity are exceptions to the rule of how LAPD conducts itself.
I don't find it hard to believe that people have their breaking points. True or not, he seems to believe that he lost his family, friends, and name to the corrupt actions of the LAPD and that no further legal means are available to him. NOT A PRETTY SITUATION. I certainly hope they can take him off the streets without a lot of collateral damage. The longer this drags out, the less likely that is. It's been 2 days and they have already peppered 2 trucks. If he kills a couple more cops things will turn truly upside down in LA.
He will probably have some support, especially given how public perception seems to be negative of Cops out there. It's highly unlikely that his swan song of corruption and abuse will fall on deaf ears.
Worse part is that his actions will make it unlikely that any investigation into his accusations will happen. This will be chalked up to some nut job going off the reservation and that's it. The only thing easier to ignore than a crazy dude is a dead crazy dude which is how he will most likely end up.
I have not the time, nor ability, to verify Dorners claims, but based on my experience with LAPD, and other SoCal LE, it is entirely plausible.
I can understand his desire to harm the people who ruined his life (if it's true) through lies and corruption, but I cannot understand harming innocent members of their families. That act ruined any chance of credibility, or status as a man who stands for justice, he ever had. He now stands shoulder to shoulder with the evil, corrupt people he has been ranting against.
As far as cops shooting at unarmed paper delivery ladies, and shooting THAT much, using someone's occupied home as a back stop... Is this really defensible in any way? If these cops are that panicky, fearful and unable to control themselves, they need to be relieved of duty and charged with criminal misconduct. This is a whole new shade of ugliness. On one hand, I am hoping that new evidence or info will come to light to explain this behavior. On the other hand, I fear the new info will be just more lies, cover ups and corruption. If I sound jaded and skeptical, it's because I am... and with good reason.
Crow Hunter
02-07-13, 15:56
The longer this drags out, the less likely that is. It's been 2 days and they have already peppered 2 trucks. If he kills a couple more cops things will turn truly upside down in LA.
He will probably have some support, especially given how public perception seems to be negative of Cops out there.
Based on comments I have read on the LATimes and other news outlets, if I were the LAPD I would worry about this getting ugly. There seems to be WAY more sympathy toward the Dorner than for the LAPD and that was before everything came out about the other 2 truck incidents.
It is a bad situation on both sides. On one hand I think the media should have kept their mouth's shut about this to lessen his fame/publicity/stirring tensions until the police had a better handle on things.
On the other hand, if I lived in the area, and especially if I were black and had a vehicle even remotely similar, I would want to know so I could stay out of the way.
It is too bad that the media wasn't more proactive and tried to shine some light on this subject BEFORE it got to this point. I can't believe that he just "snapped" and suddenly started doing this stuff out of the blue.
Someone had to know.
JBecker 72
02-07-13, 15:56
So watching live feed of the SWAT team snipers "covertly" insert into the hills of Big Bear.... The news helicopter is hovering over them. How is that being allowed by the PD?
Here is the feed.
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/live-video/
This is a whole new shade of ugliness.
Yes, something about this is profoundly substantial. When the dust settles heads will likely be rolling and the memory will resonate for some time to come.
Interesting times indeed.
Voodoo_Man
02-07-13, 15:58
I have not the time, nor ability, to verify Dorners claims, but based on my experience with LAPD, and other SoCal LE, it is entirely plausible.
I can understand his desire to harm the people who ruined his life (if it's true) through lies and corruption, but I cannot understand harming innocent members of their families. That act ruined any chance of credibility, or status as a man who stands for justice, he ever had. He now stands shoulder to shoulder with the evil, corrupt people he has been ranting against.
The second he decided to resort to violence he was no better than any POS criminal. It does not matter what those officers did or in what capacity, unless it was something that had to reacted to with deadly force (by its very definition, an exigent circumstance) then he had/has no legal right to cause harm onto anyone.
He let his emotions get the better of him and he acted against his oath to take an innocent life. For this he is the worst type of person to ever hold office as a LEO.
Crow Hunter
02-07-13, 15:59
So watching live feed of the SWAT team snipers "covertly" insert into the hills of Big Bear.... The news helicopter is hovering over them. How is that being allowed by the PD?
I don't know that it matters that much. I got the impression from his manifesto that he had the means and ability to monitor all their radio traffic anyway. So if anything, hopefully this is a ruse (doing something for the public) and they are actually doing a radio silent insertion of the real hunting teams elsewhere.
JBecker 72
02-07-13, 16:00
I don't know that it matters that much. I got the impression from his manifesto that he had the means and ability to monitor all their radio traffic anyway. So if anything, hopefully this is a ruse (doing something for the public) and they are actually doing a radio silent insertion of the real hunting teams elsewhere.
Just seems like a serious OPSEC issue to me. How would you like to be on the "bait" team?
He's obviously not stupid. If he set his truck or a car on fire to get the police's attention it's for a reason. Lure them in to the funnel and play sniper.
Based on comments I have read on the LATimes and other news outlets, if I were the LAPD I would worry about this getting ugly. There seems to be WAY more sympathy toward the Dorner than for the LAPD and that was before everything came out about the other 2 truck incidents.
It is a bad situation on both sides. On one hand I think the media should have kept their mouth's shut about this to lessen his fame/publicity/stirring tensions until the police had a better handle on things.
On the other hand, if I lived in the area, and especially if I were black and had a vehicle even remotely similar, I would want to know so I could stay out of the way.
It is too bad that the media wasn't more proactive and tried to shine some light on this subject BEFORE it got to this point. I can't believe that he just "snapped" and suddenly started doing this stuff out of the blue.
Someone had to know.
I'm willing to bet that as more information becomes available it will be one of those situations where all of the writing was right there on the wall more or less.
As an aside any of you guys remember the Bucky Philips debacle from a few years back involving the escaped con, cop killer and the NY state police?
Happened in my neck of the woods at the time and was an absolute shit show primarily because of how the state handled it as they came in and pretty much pushed aside all of the local LE departments and tried to do things on their own and eviscerated their public relations image in the process. It was a bad situation all around.
... but I cannot understand harming innocent members of their families.
It will cause a lot more people to ask questions and investigate. Not justifying his actions but that is typically what happens. Extended family of those killed want answers and they end up on talk shows and such.
BREAKING NEWS- Jesus Christ has now taken over the entire LAPD so mistakes will never be made again. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
NinjaMedic
02-07-13, 16:08
Can anyone confirm that Balefire by Ken Goddard (http://www.amazon.com/Balefire-Ken-Goddard/dp/0812533836) is recommended reading in the Navy's Anti-terrorism Officer Level II (J-830-0015)?
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/BChoVcFCUAESzs0jpg-large_zpse469855e.jpeg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/BChp-cECYAI5BZX-1jpg-large_zps10b02295.jpeg
CarlosDJackal
02-07-13, 16:10
This society has made a turn for the worst. I've read in a discussion site where a supposedly Combat Veteran with 4 deployments is actually applauding what this scumbag has done and thinks that killing the daughter of the man who tried to defend him in court and her fiance was an acceptable loss.
I personally think those LAPD Officers who fired upon those innocent motorists based on vehicle description are not that far off from being as low as this waste of sperm. Shooting first and asking questions later is never an acceptable course of action in America's streets.
Can you imagine if we fired on every white van during the DC - Malvo shootings? Do you have any idea how many white vans are in the DC area?
When people think that acts such these are okay, we're doomed!! :(
I also have AT/FP training from the USCG and Blackwater. Trust me, it's not that sexy and the AT/FP officers are mostly just a title and have very little real world experience. This guy is way overstating his capabilities and training.
Can anyone confirm that Balefire by Ken Goddard (http://www.amazon.com/Balefire-Ken-Goddard/dp/0812533836) is recommended reading in the Navy's Anti-terrorism Officer Level II (J-830-0015)?
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/BChoVcFCUAESzs0jpg-large_zpse469855e.jpeg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/BChp-cECYAI5BZX-1jpg-large_zps10b02295.jpeg
He's obviously not stupid. If he set his truck or a car on fire to get the police's attention it's for a reason. Lure them in to the funnel and play sniper.
Nope, it's a diversion. He wants to keep at it and that would mean the end unless he has a flawless escape route.
Crow Hunter
02-07-13, 16:16
Just seems like a serious OPSEC issue to me. How would you like to be on the "bait" team?
I agree, but I can't believe the LAPD isn't "letting" it happen as part of their plan.
I definitely wouldn't want to even be a police officer in that area right now.
I am afraid we are going to wind up with some crazy copy cats too.
What better time to settle scores when it can be blamed on someone else.
sinlessorrow
02-07-13, 16:16
The second he decided to resort to violence he was no better than any POS criminal. It does not matter what those officers did or in what capacity, unless it was something that had to reacted to with deadly force (by its very definition, an exigent circumstance) then he had/has no legal right to cause harm onto anyone.
He let his emotions get the better of him and he acted against his oath to take an innocent life. For this he is the worst type of person to ever hold office as a LEO.
And if tyranny ever truly grips this country im sure youll say the same about those that fight back.
I do not agree with his actions but you push a man to far and eventually they push back.
Explain how he was pushed? You know absolutely nothing about this guy or the real story and you are basically saying because "he claims to be a victim" his actions are justified.
How do you know that one shred of what he says is true? What makes him different than any other piece of shit murdering, raping or child molesting criminal who claims xxxx?
Some of you really scare the shit out of me.
And if tyranny ever truly grips this country im sure youll say the same about those that fight back.
I do not agree with his actions but you push a man to far and eventually they push back.
This guy is awesome!! go baby go!!
I cant wait to watch the body count on this... this is what happens when you let a trained guy go to war. expect more of these soon.
Tell me that wasn't on of the mistaken vehicles. If so...Wow.
It wouldn't surprise me if the officers involved in shooting up that pickup full of innocents get "visited" by the suspect...
sinlessorrow
02-07-13, 16:25
Explain how he was pushed? You know absolutely nothing about this guy or the real story and you are basically saying because "he claims to be a victim" his actions are justified.
How do you know that one shred of what he says is true? What makes him different than any other piece of shit murdering, raping or child molesting criminal who claims xxxx?
Some of you really scare the shit out of me.
And I would be scared to drive a truck right now...
This guy is awesome!! go baby go!!
I cant wait to watch the body count on this... this is what happens when you let a trained guy go to war. expect more of these soon.
Some of the mods appear to be (to me) already looking for a reason to shut this thread down. Can you knock this shit off, please?
Police officers shooting into the vehicles of innocents without confirming a threat is completely reckless and negligent regardless of any and all circumstances.
BINGO
To add in regards to other posters, Since when does failure to comply justify DPF. Two giant ****ups in one day.
BINGO
To add in regards to other posters, Since when does failure to comply justify DPF. Two giant ****ups in one day.
Yeah, and civilians are the ones that shouldn't have guns.
Explain how he was pushed? You know absolutely nothing about this guy or the real story and you are basically saying because "he claims to be a victim" his actions are justified.
How do you know that one shred of what he says is true? What makes him different than any other piece of shit murdering, raping or child molesting criminal who claims xxxx?
Some of you really scare the shit out of me.
Innocent until proven guilty comes to mind.
This guy is awesome!! go baby go!!
I cant wait to watch the body count on this...
I can't wait to see how long until you're banned.
Belmont31R
02-07-13, 16:29
Some of the mods appear to be (to me) already looking for a reason to shut this thread down. Can you knock this shit off, please?
I would prefer they just lock people who post stupid shit like that, and it would help if you don't quote them.
Voodoo_Man
02-07-13, 16:29
And if tyranny ever truly grips this country im sure youll say the same about those that fight back.
I do not agree with his actions but you push a man to far and eventually they push back.
You make no sense.
Tyranny? What the crap are you talking about dude? Because this thread is about a crazy ex-LEO who should have been vetted properly and never wore a badge.
If you push a LOGICAL, ETHICAL and MORAL man too far and that man eventually pushes back it won't be with a gun, killing innocents.
Whiskey_Bravo
02-07-13, 16:29
CNN is talking about the guys "scary" weapons right now. Of course they are focusing on his mention of the .50.
GeorgiaBoy
02-07-13, 16:30
BINGO
To add in regards to other posters, Since when does failure to comply justify DPF. Two giant ****ups in one day.
It's ok guys, we just "don't know the circumstances". The shootings on innocent vehicles could have very well been "justified".
Oh boy..
This guy is awesome!! go baby go!!
I cant wait to watch the body count on this... this is what happens when you let a trained guy go to war. expect more of these soon.
That will be enough rooting for a cop killer. Anyone else?
I'm really trying to detect the sarcasm but I'm not sure there is any.
Belmont31R
02-07-13, 16:33
Guys...staff is in the thread. Stop quoting that. Thats why they just lock it so they don't have to spend 20 minutes cleaning up a page of quotes.
CNN is talking about the guys "scary" weapons right now. Of course they are focusing on his mention of the .50.
Parts of this guy's writings were an anti-gunner's wet dream. He's obviously aware of some of the issues that have been coming up in the gun debates.
I'm surprised he didn't also say, "And this barrel shroud? It's going to help me keep my hands cool so I can fire more rounds without burning my hand. And with this pistol grip? I'll be able to spray fire from the hip and hit more people still. People shouldn't be allowed to have stuff like this, and I'm going to show you why."
That will be enough rooting for a cop killer. Anyone else?
Don't forget he is a killer of innocent citizens as well. Their lives mean no less.
Belmont31R
02-07-13, 16:36
http://www.crimefilenews.com is reporting to be publishing the FULL manifesto in which the media appear, if true, to have redacted a bunch of stuff about his love of Obama, support for an AWB, and other stuff that doesn't fit the agenda.
Anon was also hosting the reportedly 'full version' which contained the same stuff.
If you had a well regulated AWB, this would not happen. The time is now to reinstitute a ban that will save lives. Why does any sportsman need a 30 round magazine for hunting? Why does anyone need a suppressor? Why does anyone need a AR15 rifle? This is the same small arms weapons system utilized in eradicating Al Qaeda, Taliban, and every enemy combatant since the Vietnam war. Don't give me that crap that its not a select fire or full auto rifle like the DoD uses. That's bullshit because troops who carry the M-4/M-16 weapon system for combat ops outside the wire rarely utilize the select fire function when in contact with enemy combatants. The use of select fire probably isn't even 1% in combat. So in essence, the AR-15 semiautomatic rifle is the same as the M-4/M-16. These do not need to be purchased as easily as walking to your local Walmart or striking the enter key on your keyboard to "add to cart". All the firearms utilized in my activities are registered to me and were legally purchased at gun stores and private party transfers. All concealable weapons (pistols) were also legally register in my name at police stations or FFL's. Unfortunately, are you aware that I obtained class III weapons (suppressors) without a background check thru NICS or DROS completely LEGALLY several times? I was able to use a trust account that I created on quicken will maker and a $10 notary charge at a mailbox etc. to obtain them legally. Granted, I am not a felon, nor have a DV misdemeanor conviction or active TRO against me on a NCIC file. I can buy any firearm I want, but should I be able to purchase these class III weapons (SBR's, and suppressors) without a background check and just a $10 notary signature on a quicken will maker program? The answer is NO. I'm not even a resident of the state i purchased them in. Lock n Load just wanted money so they allow you to purchase class III weapons with just a notarized trust, military ID. Shame on you, Lock n Load. NFA and ATF need new laws and policies that do not allow loopholes such as this. In the end, I hope that you will realize that the small arms I utilize should not be accessed with the ease that I obtained them. Who in there right mind needs a ****ing silencer!!! who needs a freaking SBR AR15? No one. No more Virginia Tech, Columbine HS, Wisconsin temple, Aurora theatre, Portland malls, Tucson rally, Newtown Sandy Hook. Whether by executive order or thru a bi-partisan congress an assault weapons ban needs to be re-instituted. Period!!!
Crow Hunter
02-07-13, 16:38
Parts of this guy's writings were an anti-gunner's wet dream. He's obviously aware of some of the issues that have been coming up in the gun debates.
I'm surprised he didn't also say, "And this barrel shroud? It's going to help me keep my hands cool so I can fire more rounds without burning my hand. And with this pistol grip? I'll be able to spray fire from the hip and hit more people still. People shouldn't be allowed to have stuff like this, and I'm going to show you why."
Speaking of that, why has no one in the MSM mentioned that he, and from what I understand, the last several mass shooters are all of a liberal, Democratic bent?
sinlessorrow
02-07-13, 16:39
Speaking of that, why has no one in the MSM mentioned that he, and from what I understand, the last several mass shooters are all of a liberal, Democratic bent?
One word... Agenda.
I suspect Jack-0 comment was tongue and cheek.
GeorgiaBoy
02-07-13, 16:43
So does this now make him the 3rd or 4th person to use legally purchased NFA weapons to kill someone illegally?
Yeah, lots of justification there. He's the problem, not the NFA laws.
So does this now make him the 3rd or 4th person to use legally purchased NFA weapons to kill someone illegally?
Yeah, lots of justification there. He's the problem, not the NFA laws.
People will chop down a tree for its bad fruit before we investigate the contaminated water supply that was ruining its soil.
"No easy fix" isn't what human emotions want to hear.
I think this is also a time to look at how this is being handled with the amount of resources from a whole other angle
think how threads on here talked about gun confiscation if and a HUGE IF ! that if just say 200 people acted in this way how insane it would be and how tapped resources would be
understandable for sure but again think if about 200 or even 2000 people said enough is enough you are not going to take our weapons
does make me wonder what would happen if confiscation was ever tried
and have to think the gov is looking at this thinking YIKES think if we started this what would happen ! we could not deal with it and would not want to be the cause of starting this
crowkiller
02-07-13, 17:07
This man Dorner is nothing more than a thug and a murderer that needs snuffed out.There is no justification what so ever for what he is doing some yall need to check yourselves.
The officers that fired on innocent people need to be investigated ,tried and punished due to their incompetency and neglect.
After just becoming aware of this situation and reading the manifesto -
Whatever happened or didn't happen with the LAPD is not cause for a killing spree and it won't prove his innocence. An investigation needs to be launched by a non-interested party to find out what really happened, and this former LAPD officer needs to turn himself in.
WTF are you talking about?
Innocent until proven guilty comes to mind.
Belmont31R
02-07-13, 17:18
CNN says he mailed them a challenge coin with a bullet hole in it. Makes the 'full version' of the manifesto more plausible given he mentioned CNN people in what was cut.
Interesting perspectives to gauge distance.
http://cbsla.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/torrance-shootings.jpg?w=300
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1257842!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/article-lapd3-0207.jpg
Whiskey_Bravo
02-07-13, 17:31
It's going to be hard to justify the shooting of the two paper delivery women. I will reserve full judgement knowing I don't have all the facts(and unfortunately we probably won't get them) but like I said, it's going to be pretty hard.
A dangerous situation should not change the sop and allow bad shoots of civilians.
Like others have said, getting ****ed over at work isn't a justification for killing, especially innocent people. The guy either had some untreated issues that slipped past everybody, or he cracked. Either way he needs to be stopped.
I think it's interesting that ABC just said police opened fire on a "Nissan Titan, just like the suspect's" but you can clearly read "Toyota Tundra" on the back.
I also find it interesting that the police called his ambush of two police officers cowardly and not giving them any chance... but that's what you do as LE and MIL, massive use of force and surprise to defeat a threat.
Another update, they found his truck burning in the mountains, so he's on foot running or stole another vehicle.
Belmont31R
02-07-13, 17:38
^^^^ Tacoma not Tundra.
^^^^ Tacoma not Tundra.
That's what I meant, lol. I guess I'm just as bad as the media.
Belmont31R
02-07-13, 17:43
Mailed to Anderson Cooper:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/medallion_zps35a5e55f.jpeg
I think it's interesting that ABC just said police opened fire on a "Nissan Titan, just like the suspect's" but you can clearly read "Toyota Tundra" on the back.
I also find it interesting that the police called his ambush of two police officers cowardly and not giving them any chance... but that's what you do as LE and MIL, massive use of force and surprise to defeat a threat.
Another update, they found his truck burning in the mountains, so he's on foot running or stole another vehicle.
The article I read said it was a grey truck too, IIRC. And I think the term ambush that they used is a little exaggerated. I don't think I'd ever say one guy is an ambush, unless maybe he has a claymore or something... Not that that matters a whole lot.
thopkins22
02-07-13, 17:50
Having never been to Big Bear, how effectively could they pin this guy in? Unless he had another vehicle that he jumped in immediately after setting fire it seems that he's currently on foot in the mountains.
Are we talking heavily wooded with concealment? Or will his movements be exposed to air assets and the OPs that are being set up?
GeorgiaBoy
02-07-13, 17:51
Mailed to Anderson Cooper:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/medallion_zps35a5e55f.jpeg
This shit is getting weird. It's like a real-life movie or TV series... :fie:
Big Bear is a ski area and well known place. It is heavily wooded and if someone wanted to they could hide up there.
Having never been to Big Bear, how effectively could they pin this guy in? Unless he had another vehicle that he jumped in immediately after setting fire it seems that he's currently on foot in the mountains.
Are we talking heavily wooded with concealment? Or will his movements be exposed to air assets and the OPs that are being set up?
This shit is getting weird. It's like a real-life movie or TV series...
In some respects, I am reminded of First Blood.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083944/
Battle*Hound
02-07-13, 17:59
Or maybe it because the police in general (Torrance PD isn't LAPD) are concerned that this guy is armed and if the occupants of said vehicle didn't immediately comply with them or they thought there was "furtive movements" etc.. they chose to engage rather than be fired upon.
When people are armed and amped on adrenaline shit happens.
wow. just ****ing wow.
Belmont31R
02-07-13, 18:03
Having never been to Big Bear, how effectively could they pin this guy in? Unless he had another vehicle that he jumped in immediately after setting fire it seems that he's currently on foot in the mountains.
Are we talking heavily wooded with concealment? Or will his movements be exposed to air assets and the OPs that are being set up?
Theres a shit ton of inhospitable land out there. Been snowboarding up in BB. Basically its a chain of mountains that kinda incircle the NW, N, NE sides of SoCal. Lots of foothills, the mountains, and beyond that is the high desert. SoCal is basically a big basin and there are big hills to the south and east as well. Thats why wildfires are so bad in that area.
I grew up in Temecula. Even though we were, as the crow flies, pretty close to the ocean, it was a minimum of about 50-60 minutes to the ocean. No direct route...had to go way south to San Diego or the one road, Ortega Highway, could be hairy up into Orange Co.
Once up into those mountains though, if he kept going north, there is almost literally nothing for hundreds of miles.
wow. just ****ing wow.
i'm at the same place...turn the page.
This guy is going to turn into the anti-gunners wet dream. He's a civilian who legally owns AR's and regular magazines. He is ex military who was deployed. I see him being diagnosed with PTSD by some head shrinker even without a visit. Trifecta. Combat vets are potential time bombs. PTSD will turn you into a raving lunatic without notice. Cops are outgunned by civie AR's. Hope you enjoyed your guns while you had them.
LA residents better batten down the hatches for the night. It's gonna be a bumpy one for sure. Well keep you in our prayers.
Wonder how many bangers are gonna try to light up some patrol cars and see if they can blame it on Dorner?
I agree with the consensus on this guy being a POS. Ironic that the guys going off the deep end all seem to be of liberal leaning.
Big Bear is a ski area and well known place. It is heavily wooded and if someone wanted to they could hide up there.
In the snow? No way. That was a diversion, he's gone. Canada, Mexico, or back to LA. I'd put money on him not being in Big Bear.
Or maybe it because the police in general (Torrance PD isn't LAPD) are concerned that this guy is armed and if the occupants of said vehicle didn't immediately comply with them or they thought there was "furtive movements" etc.. they chose to engage rather than be fired upon.
When people are armed and amped on adrenaline shit happens.
So they shoot two women because they are worried about that one guy?
What??
I suspect Jack-0 comment was tongue and cheek.
If it was, have him email the STAFF account with a reasonable explanation.
In the snow? No way. That was a diversion, he's gone. Canada, Mexico, or back to LA. I'd put money on him not being in Big Bear.
Right. He said he has nothing to lose, so why would he run? Unless he's trying to draw as many LE into the open as possible.
This guy is going to turn into the anti-gunners wet dream. He's a civilian who legally owns AR's and regular magazines. He is ex military who was deployed. I see him being diagnosed with PTSD by some head shrinker even without a visit. Trifecta. Combat vets are potential time bombs. PTSD will turn you into a raving lunatic without notice. Cops are outgunned by civie AR's. Hope you enjoyed your guns while you had them.
LA residents better batten down the hatches for the night. It's gonna be a bumpy one for sure. Well keep you in our prayers.
Wonder how many bangers are gonna try to light up some patrol cars and see if they can blame it on Dorner?
I agree with the consensus on this guy being a POS. Ironic that the guys going off the deep end all seem to be of liberal leaning.
I think it'll go the other way. Black, liberal, LAPD, Navy, anti-gun (for everyone other than him apparently), this is not the type of guy they want to claim as their buddy. They're going to distance themselves from those parts of his manifesto. And with the cops shooting innocents, it's hardly the time to be claiming "the only ones" who should have weapons are the ones with such poor judgment.
Although... I do agree that somewhere some goon is already planning on taking shots at cops and then when questioned say it was a 6'6 220lb black guy.
It's not unfathomable to imagine this could turn into a riot. 3 innocents have already been shot by cops.
I'm just reading into all this...is this guy as bat shit crazy as it first appears, you think?
Belmont31R
02-07-13, 18:16
In the snow? No way. That was a diversion, he's gone. Canada, Mexico, or back to LA. I'd put money on him not being in Big Bear.
Saw video feed of the area for a helo and the snow was patchy at best. Cold, and whatnot but not a couple feet of snow over everything.
I saw that news chopper footage too. Its not Hoth, but youd be cold out there without gear. Looked pretty sparse at least in the AO where the SWAT team deployed.
Its not Hoth, but youd be cold out there without gear.
Who says he doesn't have gear?
Right. He said he has nothing to lose, so why would he run? Unless he's trying to draw as many LE into the open as possible.
Or spreading his opponents' forces thin and acting in areas that are not as well staffed as Big Bear. Nothing like drawing the SWAT team to location X and going after someone else in another part of town. Hopefully he is far enough away for the reservation to not think clearly and gets himself killed before some poor guy trying to go to work or more cops get killed.
Battle*Hound
02-07-13, 18:34
Don't forget he is a killer of innocent citizens as well. Their lives mean no less.
Thank you!! Plumber, house wife, carpenter, cop, horse jockey.
thopkins22
02-07-13, 18:35
Who says he doesn't have gear?
Based on his writing, and actions up until now he appears to be of sound(if evil) mind, and operating on a script that he's obviously been working on for a few years. Not good...they need to find a way to go after this on their own terms.
I fear that he knows exactly where he's going and why. This would be a good use of a bunch of IR/Thermal video links from the drones that I'm generally opposed to....
Unless he's trying to draw as many LE into the open as possible.
He didn't set it on fire because he wanted to hide it, that's for sure.
His manifesto sounds a bit fantastic to me though. I would not be surprised to see him dead by dinner time Saturday.
Based on his writing, and actions up until now he appears to be of sound(if evil) mind, and operating on a script that he's obviously been working on for a few years. Not good...they need to find a way to go after this on their own terms.
I fear that he knows exactly where he's going and why. This would be a good use of a bunch of IR/Thermal video links from the drones that I'm generally opposed to....
lol
Maybe this is going to be the 'paradigm shifting incident' used to convince people we need drones over the US.
Battle*Hound
02-07-13, 18:37
People will chop down a tree for its bad fruit before we investigate the contaminated water supply that was ruining its soil.
Haven't heard that before...but I like it
This would be a good use of a bunch of IR/Thermal video links from the drones that I'm generally opposed to....
Here we go...
thopkins22
02-07-13, 18:39
His manifesto sounds a bit fantastic to me though. I would not be surprised to see him dead by dinner time Saturday.
This is absolutely true as well. I believe(while he's clearly dangerous and has some sort of plan at work,) that his overuse of acronyms was to create the sensation that this guy is a military mastermind more than it was a statement of fact.
He wanted it to sound as scary as possible.
Here we go...
Manned helicopters then? LAPD certainly has enough of them.
Who says he doesn't have gear?
I wasn't.
Im just saying that he's gonna need a hefty load to be out there for very long. 6 foot 270 pounds and looking at his pictures, moving with a substantial loadout, hes probably not gonna be able to move quickly especially in that terrain. The thought of him E&Eing very far without a vehicle seems unlikely. If they catch him at Big Bear it would probably happen sooner than.later, right?
GeorgiaBoy
02-07-13, 18:40
I fear that he knows exactly where he's going and why. This would be a good use of a bunch of IR/Thermal video links from the drones that I'm generally opposed to....
Especially if he had a hostage.
I don't have problems with drones being used to track down criminals in remote areas, to find hostages, or for general search and rescue or fire suppression. Its drone surveillance - flying over the sky recording video of people that I object to.
sinlessorrow
02-07-13, 18:42
Here we go...
Didnt you hear its a conspiracy toget approval of drones :P
CNN says he mailed them a challenge coin with a bullet hole in it. Makes the 'full version' of the manifesto more plausible given he mentioned CNN people in what was cut.
Mark Levin was just discussing the dudes manifesto on my drive home. He mentions Piers Morgan, damn near all of MSNBC, many of the prominent talking heads at CNN....Soledad, Wolf, etc...
Even commends Morgan for the gun grab monologue he pushes...Also hates the NRA and specifically mentions Wayne LaPierre. Levin said that the entire manifesto is also available on pjmedia...
The one dude I really feel sorry for is Christopher "Big Black" Boykin. Also former Navy. He might want to just stay indoors and play for Black Ops for a little while!
Belmont31R
02-07-13, 18:50
Mark Levin was just discussing the dudes manifesto on my drive home. He mentions Piers Morgan, damn near all of MSNBC, many of the prominent talking heads at CNN....Soledad, Wolf, etc...
Even commends Morgan for the gun grab monologue he pushes...Also hates the NRA and specifically mentions Wayne LaPierre. Levin said that the entire manifesto is also available on pjmedia...
The one dude I really feel sorry for is Christopher "Big Black" Boykin. Also former Navy. He might want to just stay indoors and play for Black Ops for a little while!
Also, based on some of the other stuff he was at least a lurker on various gun boards. Mentioned how people talk about Obama and the wookie (popular on ar15.com).
Just goes to show how friggin biased the media is. They intentionally cut the portions out that linked him to leftists, leftist news media, Obama love, support for an AWB, ect. Sick. Media is nothing but propaganda.
Watching CNN they are trying to get 'into his mind' yet haven't mentioned once yet he talked all about them, Obama, Feinstein, ect.
I hate American news. Sad sacks of crap. Wonder if Pierce will bring up how this guy likes him...Pierce is the one who said he wants to line up conservatives and machine gun them down.
Yeah crazy huh? You know because they totally wanted to shoot just anyone.
And because like I said for the millionth ****ing time that I can understand how it could happen, but never said it was justified nor did I say they should get a pass.
So they shoot two women because they are worried about that one guy?
What??
And because like I said for the millionth ****ing time that I can understand how it could happen
Really? You understand how cops can open fire on a truck of a different make, model, and plate number when before they could confirm an ID between a 6'6 220lb large black male suspect and two women deliver newspapers?
What about the black Honda Ridgeline that other cops shot up? It appeared to be run off the road, three holes in the windshield, and I watched the live feed of an older definitely not black guy being loaded into an ambulance.
I'm not mocking you or the police, I'm just not understanding how this could EVER happen or that you could imagine a situation that it could.
Saw video feed of the area for a helo and the snow was patchy at best. Cold, and whatnot but not a couple feet of snow over everything.
He's not going to "Rambo" it in the mountains.
There's an arctic storm front heading in tonight with 100% chance of snow tomorrow and into Saturday. Only 6" of snow expected with high/lows in the 30's/10's.
His truck was found this morning. He probably got into a second vehicle that was stashed up there. Probably planned so he could spread out resources and stay ahead of his pursuers. Might even have additional vehicles stashed throughout the SoCal region.
Now the original vehicle description is useless. He's probably gonna move and act at night. He could drive into South L.A. and completely blend in with the local population.
In the last 24 hours, he's been in 5 counties with a total population on ~20 million.
Hope he makes a mistake and this ends soon.
Belmont31R
02-07-13, 19:07
Yeah crazy huh? You know because they totally wanted to shoot just anyone.
And because like I said for the millionth ****ing time that I can understand how it could happen, but never said it was justified nor did I say they should get a pass.
I don't.
Tacoma /=/ Titan and Asian Women /=/ 270lb black guy.
Shot from behind, with a house for a back stop.
Really don't understand how that can be construed, at all, into being justified.
Seems like you're going out of your way to get people to not think the cops didn't royally **** up these two situations, and I can't imagine any LEO not being familar with modern vehicle makes and models. BOLO doesn't mean any truck gets lit up because American's aren't used to Iraq like conditions, and even then I was trained to try to use hand signals, then try to disable, and as a last resort go for occupants.
I am NOT harping on the cops down there in general. I'd be nervous as shit, too, and wouldn't want to be standing around like a dolt when this guy is talking about Barret's and such. American LE don't need to be living under that fear, and this guy, even if what he said is true, isn't jusitifed in shooting people with nothing to do with his situation, and even in his situation that ain't worth killing someone. However inasmuch as LE is rightfully terrified I would definately not want to be driving a truck around SoCal. The guy in the Honda thing was rammed and opened fired on.
I just want to share a quick story, and don't care if you believe it or not. Was at Camp Justice, at the internal gate, and we got a BOLO for (no kidding) tan humvee was stolen and going to be used for a VBIED on a gate (thats us). The SF guys that were there, thought it would be cool to jump the curb around our cones, and it was VERY close to a blue on blue. Only time I got away with cussing at an NCO (I was an E4 at the time) who was driving that vehicle, and after that they obeyed our cones and road setup perfectly. If we can have that kind of restraint, and our gunner had popped the safety off the SAW at the gate, I find it hard to believe the LE in SoCal just get off lighting up a couple Asian women throwing newspapers out of a Tacoma (Tacoma /=/ Titan).
Not excusable, and if it were me or you we would be jail. Simple as that.
Suwannee Tim
02-07-13, 19:09
With respect to this:
http://imageshack.us/a/img692/4024/6a00d8341c630a53ef017d4z.jpg
It is well known that if you scare a cop he will try to kill you. Best bet, don't scare a cop. These cops seem to have walked out of the door of the cop shop scared. Which leads to them pouring gunfire into the back of a pickup with the occupants still inside so the officers cannot even see them. I am dismayed but not all that surprised that this officer was not willing to accept any risk at all choosing instead to try to kill people he had not positively identified. That is the definition of cowardice. Before anyone jumps in and points out that I have "never been there" and am therefore not qualified to comment, no I have never been a cop or soldier. I have faced risks and dangerous situations in particular an armed antagonist and responded in appropriate, restrained manner, nay, over-restrained manner. No, I have never been in this situation but I know how I would not react. I would not react by trying to kill unseen, unknown people. This officer needs to be immediately relieved and ultimately locked up for gross negligence. If this is typical of today's police, then God help us. Hopefully it is far from typical. Hopefully this guy is an isolated coward doing the wrong job and soon to be doing something else.
interesting manifesto, he really is getting high on his own supply...and by supply I mean ego. A .50 Barrett and some MANPADs? He reads like a ginormous name dropper.
Dude is flat out crazy. Is was WAY too wrapped up in TV personalities, etc.
NCPatrolAR
02-07-13, 19:20
Alright guys; its about time to chill out with all the armchair QB'ing of the shooting. Let's see what the justification was before any more of the "there's no justification............." talk gets thrown around.
It is well known that if you scare a cop he will try to kill you. Best bet, don't scare a cop.
Comments like this get a vacation. I did not think I was unclear.
Anyone else?
Belmont31R
02-07-13, 19:26
Going to check out of this thread....:rolleyes:
Going to check out of this thread....:rolleyes:
Probably for the best. Cheers. :cool:
Belmont31R
02-07-13, 19:28
Probably for the best. Cheers. :cool:
I know. Have fun.
Larry Vickers
02-07-13, 19:37
If he is in those hills it will be very interesting to see how this shakes out with bad weather rolling in
Based on who he is and what he is about I'd be willing to bet he will not handle it well - at all
We shall see....
This thread will only get worse because we have a circumstantial train wreck here. A murderous rogue police officer, one who is using "assault weapons" to kill both LEO and civilians and who probably had legit gripes that should be exposed properly, this after Sandy Hook, and on and on.
It's a no win situation.
Im behind the 8ball on this one, but I sure hope they find this dirtbag before he kills again.
If he is in those hills it will be very interesting to see how this shakes out with bad weather rolling in
Based on who he is and what he is about I'd be willing to bet he will not handle it well - at all
I agree. We have a tendency to overestimate his training and capabilities (thanks to media, movies, etc.). For example, some people already made a rough analogy to the movie "Law Abiding Citizen" where a super genius went on a murderous rampage and used the police as pawns.
In reality, he probably has an average IQ and severely retarded EQ. The latter is especially important for survival in austere environments. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those looking for this guy and hoping that his luck runs out...
If he is in those hills it will be very interesting to see how this shakes out with bad weather rolling in
Based on who he is and what he is about I'd be willing to bet he will not handle it well - at all
We shall see....
I thought it's almost impossible to hide from FLIR. Is this not correct?
Re if this guy is outfitted and planned his escape; I saw a report earlier that he first tried to steal a boat from an old man, but a rope got caught in the prop. If this is true, he doesn't sound like a man with a plan to me.
crowkiller
02-07-13, 20:10
Dude is flat out crazy. Is was WAY too wrapped up in TV personalities, etc.
I was thinking the same reading his manifesto.
NCPatrolAR
02-07-13, 20:16
A murderous rogue police officer,
He hasn't been a cop for four years
This is the wrong way to air your grievances. I hope he is taken into custody before any more people get hurt.
Even with all of the technology available, it is still difficult to locate and capture a determined individual with practical experience.
NCPatrolAR
02-07-13, 20:17
I thought it's almost impossible to hide from FLIR. Is this not correct?
People hide from it all the time
Lots of solid cover out there that FLIR won't see through.
ffhounddog
02-07-13, 20:20
I thought it's almost impossible to hide from FLIR. Is this not correct?
Re if this guy is outfitted and planned his escape; I saw a report earlier that he first tried to steal a boat from an old man, but a rope got caught in the prop. If this is true, he doesn't sound like a man with a plan to me.
You can hide from FLIR. It is not impossible.
I was thinking about the cold and I hated SERE training with a passion and still hate it when my toes are cold. If he is use to the easier life the weather is going to suck for him when he has clothes maybe being wet.
LV Metro just searched his house less than a mile away from mine here in Vegas. My guess is that's how dude knew about Lock N Load and buying stuff from them here locally.
I agree. We have a tendency to overestimate his training and capabilities (thanks to media, movies, etc.). For example, some people already made a rough analogy to the movie "Law Abiding Citizen" where a super genius went on a murderous rampage and used the police as pawns.
In reality, he probably has an average IQ and severely retarded EQ. The latter is especially important for survival in austere environments. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those looking for this guy and hoping that his luck runs out...
I kid you not an hour or so ago I watched a 5 min segment on CNN about how his support side firearms "training" could prove problematic should the police eventually corner him. The media knows no rational bounds. They would have you think this guy was an active SEAL gone rogue.
Also Law abiding citizen was a good movie.
If he is in those hills it will be very interesting to see how this shakes out with bad weather rolling in
Based on who he is and what he is about I'd be willing to bet he will not handle it well - at all
We shall see....
Agreed. It is much more difficult to survive the elements than people think. If his training resume is correct, he may not have the skills to survive for very long as the downturn in the weather starts to create some difficult survival situations.
Magic_Salad0892
02-07-13, 20:44
I don't think he's in the mountains.
That would be counter to his objective.
They need to focus on cities near southern LA.
In my unqualified opinion.
An Undocumented Worker
02-07-13, 20:45
Scanner feed for LAPD dispatch.
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?action=wp&feedId=3711
I am waiting for the press to pull out old rambo movie clips to show how he would do things !
This guy seems like a whacked out loon, but just remember, when some guy who IS justified goes off the deep end, he will be painted as crazy by the media machine that supports the government. Count on that...
Can you imagine how the the Minutemen from the 1700's would have been portrayed in today's media?
Excellent point
Moose-Knuckle
02-07-13, 21:31
I thought it's almost impossible to hide from FLIR. Is this not correct?
Negative.
No technology is perfect and there are ways to defeat it.
Also, counter surveillance clothing is really coming along. Here is a start-up called Stealth Wear, linked are some images of their products.
http://ahprojects.com/projects/stealth-wear
RogerinTPA
02-07-13, 21:39
He's not going to "Rambo" it in the mountains.
There's an arctic storm front heading in tonight with 100% chance of snow tomorrow and into Saturday. Only 6" of snow expected with high/lows in the 30's/10's.
His truck was found this morning. He probably got into a second vehicle that was stashed up there. Probably planned so he could spread out resources and stay ahead of his pursuers. Might even have additional vehicles stashed throughout the SoCal region.
Now the original vehicle description is useless. He's probably gonna move and act at night. He could drive into South L.A. and completely blend in with the local population.
In the last 24 hours, he's been in 5 counties with a total population on ~20 million.
Hope he makes a mistake and this ends soon.
Agreed. It seems like it's the most logical course of action a reasonably intelligent person would do. If he decided to stay up there, he'll be found dead or half dead by this weekend, unless he E&E'd 10-20 miles away and broke into an empty home for shelter...
Apparently you guys have never actually played with FLIR equipment. A single pane of glass is all it takes to disappear.
Being on the other side of any glass or even some plexiglass is all it takes. When I had some test equipment from FLIR that was one of the first things I noticed. The second was how hot tires on a moving vehicle get.
On topic: does anyone else notice the main stream news is not making a big deal of the two separate passenger cars being shot up? No one I've talked to at dinner tonight even knew about this guy.
Alaskapopo
02-07-13, 22:18
Negative.
No technology is perfect and there are ways to defeat it.
Also, counter surveillance clothing is really coming along. Here is a start-up called Stealth Wear, linked are some images of their products.
http://ahprojects.com/projects/stealth-wear
Some low tech things can also defeat it like wet blankets to hide your body heat signature.
Pat
Piers Morgan Fan Goes On Shooting Rampage, Killing Three…
http://weaselzippers.us/2013/02/07/piers-morgan-fan-goes-on-shooting-rampage-killing-three/
Piers Morgan Fan Goes On Shooting Rampage, Killing Three…
http://weaselzippers.us/2013/02/07/piers-morgan-fan-goes-on-shooting-rampage-killing-three/
Awesome title,
I lol'ed at first two comments:
>More mental cases aligned with leftards than you can shake a stick at!!
>>Careful with that stick. It could scare the left and they'd deem it an assault stick. Then call for a national ban on assault sticks.
FWIW, I can not find a single mention on CNN that cops opened fire on two civilian trucks without identifying their targets. I found one image of the blue tacoma shot up, but no text about that at all.
I GUARN-****ING-TEE you if an armed citizen shot a truck because they thought the suspect was in there - that news would interrupt the super bowl.
Awesome title,
I lol'ed at first two comments:
>More mental cases aligned with leftards than you can shake a stick at!!
>>Careful with that stick. It could scare the left and they'd deem it an assault stick. Then call for a national ban on assault sticks.
FWIW, I can not find a single mention on CNN that cops opened fire on two civilian trucks without identifying their targets. I found one image of the blue tacoma shot up, but no text about that at all.
I GUARN-****ING-TEE you if an armed citizen shot a truck because they thought the suspect was in there - that news would interrupt the super bowl.
Those are the first two comments?
Epic win is epic.
Yeah crazy huh? You know because they totally wanted to shoot just anyone.
And because like I said for the millionth ****ing time that I can understand how it could happen, but never said it was justified nor did I say they should get a pass.
i have personally heard a few cops say "ive been waiting for this... i hope we get to shoot someone.."
both time was at stand off's...
just sayin...
as with any profession. some people suck at there job..
i have personally heard a few cops say "ive been waiting for this... i hope we get to shoot someone.."
both time was at stand off's...
just sayin...
as with any profession. some people suck at there job..
when I was in the FD we had some folks who always wanted a big house fire ?
like you say some people suck !
I don't think he's in the mountains.
That would be counter to his objective.
Agreed. It seems like it's the most logical course of action a reasonably intelligent person would do. If he decided to stay up there, he'll be found dead or half dead by this weekend, unless he E&E'd 10-20 miles away and broke into an empty home for shelter...
Exactly.
This guy grew up in SoCal, and SoCal natives are not acclimated to cold weather. Anything below 60F is considered "freezing", and most people here don't own winter gear.
Even if he went on a REI shopping spree, he'd be fish out of water in the mountains in more ways than one.
He might lay low for a few days before hitting again. If he strikes again soon, it's going to be by a different method than pulling up next to a car and unloading a mag.
This guy seems like a whacked out loon, but just remember, when some guy who IS justified goes off the deep end, he will be painted as crazy by the media machine that supports the government. Count on that...
Can you imagine how the the Minutemen from the 1700's would have been portrayed in today's media?
Agree
Alright guys; its about time to chill out with all the armchair QB'ing of the shooting. Let's see what the justification was before any more of the "there's no justification............." talk gets thrown around.
I'd love to see more info on these extra shootings. Problem is I don't think we will ever know the real story behind all of this. The media's rush to push stuff onto the air without checking facts themselves doesn't help.
Yep, he violated the First Rule of Retribution.
1. Never harm the innocent.
If you can't exact actions without harming the innocent then YOU yourself have become the guilty and deserve retribution. This is why you sometimes must wait a LONG TIME for an opportunity to take actions which won't harm any innocent persons.
Exactly.
Big mistake there.
Of course, once I read the whole "manifesto" thing I think this guy is just a very confused nutbag, so I'm honestly not surprised.
^^
What he said
:rolleyes:
That was a joke, right?
This guy is going to turn into the anti-gunners wet dream. He's a civilian who legally owns AR's and regular magazines. He is ex military who was deployed. I see him being diagnosed with PTSD by some head shrinker even without a visit. Trifecta. Combat vets are potential time bombs. PTSD will turn you into a raving lunatic without notice. Cops are outgunned by civie AR's. Hope you enjoyed your guns while you had them....
Yep.
I read ".50 Barrett" and I immediately got this mental picture of a room full of anti folks rushing madly back and forth and stumbling over and into each other while gnashing their teeth in a mad panick. "Oh noes it's an assault sniper rifle! Hide yo' wife, hide yo' kids cuz they shootin' everbody out here."
Comical, but scary as hell, knowing the way this will get spun.
Especially with his "tree of Liberty" quote. Good grief....
And the "mental health" angle isn't going to work out so well for us. Hate to say it, but I can feel it in my gut already.
On the other hand, this is ironic given that only a short while ago I remember reading an article about a Cal. school that installed an armory full of "assault rifles", and made a big deal out of how the Police were the only ones that could get to the weapons because they were so highly trained far above and beyond the average Joes and could therefore do no wrong with said weapons.
And now this.
Nice try guys.
Alaskapopo
02-08-13, 00:23
Exactly.
Big mistake there.
Of course, once I read the whole "manifesto" thing I think this guy is just a very confused nutbag, so I'm honestly not surprised.
:rolleyes:
That was a joke, right?
Yep.
I read ".50 Barrett" and I immediately got this mental picture of a room full of anti folks rushing madly back and forth and stumbling over and into each other while gnashing their teeth in a mad panick. "Oh noes it's an assault sniper rifle! Hide yo' wife, hide yo' kids cuz they shootin' everbody out here."
Comical, but scary as hell, knowing the way this will get spun.
Especially with his "tree of Liberty" quote. Good grief....
And the "mental health" angle isn't going to work out so well for us. Hate to say it, but I can feel it in my gut already.
On the other hand, this is ironic given that only a short while ago I remember reading an article about a Cal. school that installed an armory full of "assault rifles", and made a big deal out of how the Police were the only ones that could get to the weapons because they were so highly trained far above and beyond the average Joes and could therefore do no wrong with said weapons.
And now this.
Nice try guys.
He is not a cop and has not been one for years.
Pat
Yep.
I read ".50 Barrett" and I immediately got this mental picture of a room full of anti folks rushing madly back and forth and stumbling over and into each other while gnashing their teeth in a mad panick. "Oh noes it's an assault sniper rifle! Hide yo' wife, hide yo' kids cuz they shootin' everbody out here."
Comical, but scary as hell, knowing the way this will get spun.
Especially with his "tree of Liberty" quote. Good grief....
And the "mental health" angle isn't going to work out so well for us. Hate to say it, but I can feel it in my gut already.
.
In referencing what Taz said the one foreseeable problem the anti-gunners have is that this guy doesn't fit the commonly touted prototypical mass shooter profile... ie. he's not white. Unless they spin it to suggest that "the man" made him do it or some nonsense.
In referencing what Taz said the one foreseeable problem the anti-gunners have is that this guy doesn't fit the commonly touted prototypical mass shooter profile... ie. he's not white. Unless they spin it to suggest that "the man" made him do it or some nonsense.
They are already spinning it that way.
My Xfinity newsfeed had a story titled "Cop killer fueled by racism".
And the NBC NightLine commentator said "He may have good reason to be angry".
Larry Vickers
02-08-13, 01:07
I will be real interested to see how the main stream media and the administration plays all this over the long haul - just like the beltway snipers the guy isnt a ' white man gone nuts' so it did not fit their agenda
And my call is just like beltway snipers it will fade from the media fast once he is caught - and the Obamaites won't even breath a word of it
Standing by.....
They are already spinning it that way.
My Xfinity newsfeed had a story titled "Cop killer fueled by racism".
And the NBC NightLine commentator said "He may have good reason to be angry".
Shocked I tell you, utterly shocked :eek:
:rolleyes:
sinlessorrow
02-08-13, 01:17
I will be real interested to see how the main stream media and the administration plays all this over the long haul - just like the beltway snipers the guy isnt a ' white man gone nuts' so it did not fit their agenda
And my call is just like beltway snipers it will fade from the media fast once he is caught - and the Obamaites won't even breath a word of it
Standing by.....
Oh don't worry, Democtractic undground is worshiping this guy.
Oh don't worry, Democtractic undground is worshiping this guy.
Link?
Exactly.
Big mistake there.
Of course, once I read the whole "manifesto" thing I think this guy is just a very confused nutbag, so I'm honestly not surprised.
That's how it's looking and I don't just think it is a case of making somebody look "crazy" in order to misrepresent them. When you kill the "daughter" of the former union representative you are trying to get even with you don't need to be portrayed as crazy. You are dangerously ****ed in the head.
Of course the LAPD aren't exactly much better lighting up random trucks and shooting innocent victims. I'm sure they are stressed the **** out but that doesn't excuse anything and everything.
Reason # 4,872 I'd never live in that shithole.
I hope they catch him alive so the truth (maybe) will be known, but I am sure that is not an option.
Prayers for all involved.... really sad:(
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