View Full Version : NRA Chief says it's over
Doc Safari
02-07-13, 15:40
http://news.yahoo.com/nra-chief-gun-controls-wont-pass-congress-172426079.html
The head of the National Rifle Association said Thursday he's confident that Congress won't approve an assault weapons ban or a limit on high-capacity ammunition magazines after mass shootings in Colorado and Connecticut.
David Keene predicted failure for all congressional measures related to guns, including expanded background checks for gun purchases.
"The Senate's where the action's going to be," Keene said. "The House is sort of sitting back, and you can almost hear the House Republican leadership saying under their breath, you know, go ahead. We've got a few members that wouldn't mind sitting in the Senate. If you do this, maybe they will. So the Senate leadership is much more cautious."
Suwannee Tim
02-07-13, 15:42
No! No! Keep panicking! I still have guns to sell!
Well that is hopeful. Maybe stock will start being available again soon.
Although by all appearances he is probably right I find if foolish to go out and wave the victory flag. They need to keep pushing and make sure the appropriate buffers and policy foundations are in place for when this BS starts back up again down the road. That and they need to keep trying to get the pendulum swinging back in the other direction. After the midterm senate elections are over I can see this becoming problematic for us again.
Although by all appearances he is probably right I find if foolish to go out and wave the victory flag. They need to keep pushing and make sure the appropriate buffers and policy foundations are in place for when this BS starts back up again down the road. That and they need to keep trying to get the pendulum swinging back in the other direction. After the midterm senate elections are over I can see this becoming problematic for us again.
Definitely agree. Not a time to be waving the victory flag. This will always be an ongoing battle. At times it will bubble under the surface and others we will be faced with a boiling cauldron like we are seeing now. Always have to be vigilant
sinlessorrow
02-07-13, 16:00
Although by all appearances he is probably right I find if foolish to go out and wave the victory flag. They need to keep pushing and make sure the appropriate buffers and policy foundations are in place for when this BS starts back up again down the road. That and they need to keep trying to get the pendulum swinging back in the other direction. After the midterm senate elections are over I can see this becoming problematic for us again.
Thats if they still control the senate after midterms and this is not them giing up, this is them giving hope.
Doc Safari
02-07-13, 16:03
I read an interesting article on SHTFPlan or some other blog the other day. That person's contention was that all these photo ops showing Obama and other liberals as strong 2A adherents is just a desperate act to stave off the negative backlash.
Crow Hunter
02-07-13, 16:06
Definitely agree. Not a time to be waving the victory flag. This will always be an ongoing battle. At times it will bubble under the surface and others we will be faced with a boiling cauldron like we are seeing now. Always have to be vigilant
Amen.
We shouldn't sit back and savor any type of temporary victory. Because that is all that it will be, temporary. We need to make people understand that it isn't the tool being used, it is the Tool behind it that is the problem.
We need to fight for some meaningful legislation to stop some of this crap from going on. Get these people some help and keep them from ruining everyone's lives.
Thats if they still control the senate after midterms and this is not them giing up, this is them giving hope.
Are you referring to the Dems keeping control of the senate or the GOP taking over?
I understand what your saying about keeping the hope but so long as their actions going forward reflect a siege mindset on the matter than I'm content with that.
McCarthy and Feinstein have been submitting bills every session, of every year, since....well.....since forever.
It's not over.
sinlessorrow
02-07-13, 16:10
Do yall really think the nra is just gonna kick back and relax? They were saying we won this battle. The nra is always fighting for us.
Doc Safari
02-07-13, 16:14
McCarthy and Feinstein have been submitting bills every session, of every year, since....well.....since forever.
It's not over.
In that sense, no it's not over. What I think he's saying is that we can dial back the Newtown panic a few notches. This isn't going to be the existential meltdown with a New-York-style ban for the whole country.
I get it. I am stating that it's not over. Newtown will be used for the next 100yrs as evidence that we need more gun restrictions.
Doc Safari
02-07-13, 16:24
I get it. I am stating that it's not over. Newtown will be used for the next 100yrs as evidence that we need more gun restrictions.
So will Columbine. The point is that we need to remain vigilant, but we can uncock the hammer.
Still a big giant "Nope."
The NRA, and all of us, should continue the fight to expand our ability to maintain/exercise our rights.
It is not over, and it never will be.
Do yall really think the nra is just gonna kick back and relax? They were saying we won this battle. The nra is always fighting for us.
No but what I'm saying is if that is that should the momentum keep moving in a positive direction for use we need to stay on offense and not go back to a defensive posture.
Yep... three levels of memory
911 - Worldwide terror
Oklahoma - local terror
and now local firearms with Colorado and more so Newtown.
They will be the calling cards of the left as a routine matter.
I'll believe it's over in the short term when DiFi screams "I'll be back!" as they drag her away in a straight jacket.
Moose-Knuckle
02-07-13, 16:40
Sandy Hook will not be the last "random" mass shooting.
It's over? Give me a break.
If anything, this is reason to increase pressure and keep our cause moving forward.
As we've seen, tragedies happen. And all it takes is ONE tragedy to get people whipped up into a frenzy. There will be more before the year is out.
Hell, I fully expect some fallout from what going on in California right now.
I obviously don't want this buying craze to continue, but we still have a lot of work to do.
Doc Safari
02-07-13, 16:52
Sandy Hook will not be the last "random" mass shooting.
No, it will not, but I'm cautiously optimistic.
Sandy Hook is not going to be "America's Dunblane" as some of the gun control freaks were screaming. The Hollywood gun control advocates got the air let out of their tires pretty quickly. Obama has to claim to be a skeet shooter for ****'s sake. And you guys think we're not already winning?
I'd say the momentum is clearly on our side.
I'm not advocating going back to sleep. In fact a 'counteroffensive' of some sort seems to be in order.
I'm just saying: you don't have to sit at home loading magazines waiting for the black helictopters.
Suwannee Tim
02-07-13, 16:53
On a lark before the election I subscribed to Obama for America fully expecting it to be shut down after the President was defeated at the polls. Well, he wasn't and it wasn't. They are campaigning for gun control now. We are probably going to win this round but without a counterpart to Obama for America it is going to become increasingly difficult to stop the Dems. They didn't plan to win this round anyway, gun control is a distraction, a feint. The real battle is immigration "reform". The real attack on gun control will come all too soon.
PrivateCitizen
02-07-13, 16:57
It is not over, and it never will be.
Spot on.
What more is there to say?
One reason it'll not be over is that one aspect of the issue is urban vs. rural interests. There's a big crowd on the other side. Though the 2nd amendment ain't about hunting, hunters do make up a very large fraction of our group. Numbers of hunters decrease every year. Grandpa will tell Grandma that he doesn't give a damn about 30 shot mags, but he is fretting that the government will deprive him of his Auto-5 Browning along with the case of buckshot under his bed, and they might want his 6 inch model 10 that he bought from the deputy who deprived somebody else of this nice revolver.
I pray that we win this round. Our only hope for the future is vigilance, sensible(slick with good pr)activism, recruitment into our ranks, and giving MONEY to our lobyists. We must not fail to present ourselves in the best light so as not to provide the idiots with stuff to misconstrue, misquote, and plain lie about.
thopkins22
02-07-13, 17:13
While I agree that it's not going to happen, there WILL be a blip of a push regarding the lunatic in California and we need to be ready for anything that comes from that.
I think that rather than relax, we need to take the same intensity(BRAVO!) that we've displayed for the past month and keep this train going towards better more 2A friendly laws. Complacency kills.
There's alot that comes to mind here.
First, I don't think we've won the 2013 gun battle yet. Anyone see the anti-gun stuff during the Super Bowl? If that's any indication, it's not over by a long shot (no pun intended).
Second, when you've got your opponent on his heels you don't stand there and admire it, you hit them again! When you've got the enemy on the run, you don't let regroup, you hit them again! When you shoot a threat you don't just shoot once and let him fall, you follow him to the ground pumping rounds into him until there's no more fight left in him!
Well folks, news flash - there's plenty of fight left in the anti-gun, anti-freedom, liberal mass known as "the left". We would be stupid not to press our victory when we get one and keep them on the run for as long as we can.
thopkins22
02-07-13, 17:28
There's alot that comes to mind here.
First, I don't think we've won the 2013 gun battle yet. Anyone see the anti-gun stuff during the Super Bowl? If that's any indication, it's not over by a long shot (no pun intended).
Bloomberg's ad only aired to a few small parts of the country. Northern VA/MD, NYC, and maybe another city. Trying to rile up the political class and make them feel like they've got support.
Agreed on keeping up the pressure while they're reeling.
Not over.
We get a slightly different make up of congress and another school shooting, we will have another AWB.
Executive order banning imported mags and semi auto rifles is likely.
thopkins22
02-07-13, 18:10
Executive order banning mags and semi auto rifles is likely.
The magazine ban is the most likely of any of the bans to have any traction. But neither it nor a semi-auto ban won't/can't be via executive order....Even the most liberal of judges can't support the executive literally making laws up out of thin air.
Over my ass. This will never end. They hate every word of the Constitution and will do whatever it takes to demolish it. Letter by letter if they have to.
They are taking the campaign to the states. Minnesota is facing legislative action that has the potential to insititute laws very similar to New York. Earlier this week Obama and a substantial group of loyalists flew to Minnesota (on the taxpayer's dime) to exhort the Democrat Governor, Democrat House, and Democrat Senate to push such an abomination through.
Minnesota HF241 (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/02/robert-farago/breaking-minnesota-assault-weapon-ban-bill-hf-241-revealed/)
They are taking the campaign to the states. Minnesota is facing legislative action that has the potential to insititute laws very similar to New York. Earlier this week Obama and a substantial group of loyalists flew to Minnesota (on the taxpayer's dime) to exhort the Democrat Governor, Democrat House, and Democrat Senate to push such an abomination through.
Minnesota HF241 (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/02/robert-farago/breaking-minnesota-assault-weapon-ban-bill-hf-241-revealed/)
Gotta have their ground work in place so when the next big push comes they could look at precedent and say see alot of Americans in these states favor common sense gun control:rolleyes:
Even if all the legislation fails it is not over. We need go on the counter attack and get as many of these dopes out of office as possible. They should be scared just for having considered it. Only then can we even think about relaxing...for a bit.
The attack on the 2nd amend will never stop....just slow down
Alaskapopo
02-07-13, 20:12
Yea that was a tough ride but like I predicted in the begining the anti gunners just didn't have the votes. The sky did not fall. But I agree it will never be over.
Pat
Minnesota is facing legislative action that has the potential to insititute laws very similar to New York.
Community organizer.
It is over when:
Walmart have Colt 6920s for $1100 available on the shelf.
Dick's have Troy AR on the shelf.
My local gun stores have primers and powders available again.
You can order Pmags from Brownells and they arrive in 3 days.
Local gun stores are stocked full of ARs and mags at pre December price.
Walmart's ammo shelves are full of .22 LR bulk packages, Winchester White Box 9mm/.40/.45 and .223.
I can keep going but you get the picture.
Voodoo_Man
02-07-13, 20:45
I get it. I am stating that it's not over. Newtown will be used for the next 100yrs as evidence that we need more gun restrictions.
And left-wing bama-loving, AWB-supporting liberals like Christopher Dorner and soon to be corpse should be used as proof positive that liberals/left wing/democrats/anyone who is anti-gun is a hypocrite and should not be listened to.
And left-wing bama-loving, AWB-supporting liberals like Christopher Dorner and soon to be corpse should be used as proof positive that liberals/left wing/democrats/anyone who is anti-gun is a hypocrite and should not be listened to.
Which is an association that the media is not going to ever purposely report... :rolleyes:
Magic_Salad0892
02-07-13, 20:57
The fight will be over when gun control is viewed in the same eye as slavery.
I believe we can do it one day.
One day, I hope we can see politicians who are anti-gun, and vote them out like we would if they were racist.
Gun rights must transcend political boundries.
Voodoo_Man
02-07-13, 20:59
Which is an association that the media is not going to ever purposely report... :rolleyes:
Of course not, and its disgustingly hypocritical of them and anyone else in the left.
Interesting note: when I was trying to find a complete and accurate copy of his manifesto (for my blog) I found that many websites (msnbc, abc, cnn and their affiliates) deleted any and all references to obama, feinstien, AWB and the like...VERY telling.
Magic_Salad0892
02-07-13, 21:01
Interesting note: when I was trying to find a complete and accurate copy of his manifesto (for my blog) I found that many websites (msnbc, abc, cnn and their affiliates) deleted any and all references to obama, feinstien, AWB and the like...VERY telling.
I say that we need to paint the liberal left as fanatics. Just like they do us.
We can ruin them, if we all put our heads together.
But nobody will listen to me, or put their minds to changing it.
They use disinformation, and smear against us. All we need is the truth. We have it easy. And nobody does anything.
Voodoo_Man
02-07-13, 21:23
The truth does not work, because the many Americans do not have the ability to logically consider facts against the hypocritical media's disinformation campaigns.
If simply telling the truth worked, obama would have never been president, ever.
RogerinTPA
02-07-13, 21:30
Still a big giant "Nope."
The NRA, and all of us, should continue the fight to expand our ability to maintain/exercise our rights.
It is not over, and it never will be.
Agreed. Unless we get and keep conservatives in control of both house and senate, for infinity, it will never be over. With all the morally corrupt/bankrupt politicians, along with half the country, if we don't turn things around and away from the socialist/communist movement and get big government out of our lives, at the end of the next four years, we won't have a country left that any of us will recognize.
No way in hell is it over. We're just now starting the legislative session. Complacency will bite us in the ass. Plus there are nearly two years until the midterm elections.
I too saw an article the other day that speaks to the anti-gunners. In 94 they wanted to eviscerate the 2nd amendment. They wanted a total ban, total confiscation if they could manage it. Now notice they have changed their tune. Now they say they they are pro 2nd amendment but only want to outlaw certain firearms.
Again complacency will be our undoing.
Alaskapopo
02-07-13, 21:42
Agreed. Unless we get and keep conservatives in control of both house and senate, for infinity, it will never be over. With all the morally corrupt/bankrupt politicians, along with half the country, if we don't turn things around and away from the socialist/communist movement and get big government out of our lives, at the end of the next four years, we won't have a country left that any of us will recognize.
Its not about conservative or liberal its about pro gun vs anti gun.
Do NOT rest easy. They will sneak this stuff in every chance they get.
Show up in force tomorrow at your state capitols.
Nobody thought Obama would get reelected either .Keep on fighting untill we surrender!
Alaskapopo
02-08-13, 00:21
Nobody thought Obama would get reelected either .Keep on fighting untill we surrender!
Actually a lot of people thought he would get re-elected.
Pat
So will Columbine. The point is that we need to remain vigilant, but we can uncock the hammer.
I'm gonna need to see the bill die first before I ease off. I'm hoping this "announcement" actually means the votes have been decided and agreed to rather than an assumption or prediction.
Larry Vickers
02-08-13, 01:17
Anyone who thinks this is over needs to be reminded of one fact ;
The NRA has 4 million members - there is an estimated 100 million gun owners in the US
96 % don't even care enough to join and support the one organization above all others, although not perfect, that fights daily for our 2A rights
As long as 4% are fighting for 96% it ain't over - and never will be
As long as 4% are fighting for 96% it ain't over - and never will be
Doesn't it always seem like we are the 4% of anything who end up doing everything for the other 96%?
Magic_Salad0892
02-08-13, 01:34
Anyone who thinks this is over needs to be reminded of one fact ;
The NRA has 4 million members - there is an estimated 100 million gun owners in the US
96 % don't even care enough to join and support the one organization above all others, although not perfect, that fights daily for our 2A rights
As long as 4% are fighting for 96% it ain't over - and never will be
It'll be over when fellow rightists wisen up, and use their tactics against them.
QuickStrike
02-08-13, 02:22
Its not about conservative or liberal its about pro gun vs anti gun.
Maybe in your neck of the woods. But every single anti-gun politician I've noticed recently is a liberal.
Moose-Knuckle
02-08-13, 02:57
And you guys think we're not already winning?
Ask the NY and CA members if they're winning.
Maybe in your neck of the woods. But every single anti-gun politician I've noticed recently is a liberal.
NY has a republican majority in their house I think it was, and their SAFE act passed by a landslide.
NY has a republican majority in their house I think it was, and their SAFE act passed by a landslide.
Hell the republican majority leader supported its passage.
Its not over, they just have changed tactics.
Anyone who thinks its over needs to read this article from a couple days ago.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/02/how-the-gun-control-movement-got-smart/272934/
The article is being spread on liberal websites like the Huff Post. Basically admitting they are trying to bull shit gun owners into believing they don't want to take ALL guns and that they are pro second amendment. They have strategically changed their tactics, but in the end what they really want is a total gun ban.
I was reminded of this quote from Goodfellas
...... nobody ever tells you that they're going to kill you, doesn't happen that way. There weren't any arguments or curses like in the movies. See, your murderers come with smiles, they come as your friends, the people who've cared for you all of your life. And they always seem to come at a time that you're at your weakest and most in need of their help.
Same shit
Magic_Salad0892
02-08-13, 07:58
It not over, they just have changed tactics.
Anyone who thinks its over needs to read this article from a couple days ago.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/02/how-the-gun-control-movement-got-smart/272934/
The article is being spread on liberal websites like the Huff Post. Basically admitting they are trying to bull shit gun owners into believing they don't want to take ALL guns and that they are pro second amendment. They have strategically changed their tactics, but in the end what they really want is a total gun ban.
I was reminded of this quote for Goodfellas
Same shit
I ****ing knew it. Thanks for posting.
Doc Safari
02-08-13, 09:26
Ask the NY and CA members if they're winning.
Those two states were always a lost cause.
I'll feel more comfortable when the bills die, too. I just feel like the liberal anti-gun momentum has died and all their hysterics backfired on them.
diving dave
02-08-13, 10:03
Just to dog pile on everyones comments, this fight aint over. Get as many friends,family members, etc. to join the NRA. If your already a member, join another pro 2nd Amend. group. In this crappy economy, money is tight for all of us but send 15 or 20 bucks to help them win this fight.
It's crazy that the NRA has less than 4.5 M members. These midterms may be the most important in recent history for our cause. We really need to send a message.
Legislation or no legislation, we need to try and defeat every Rep and Senator that even considered the bill regardless of how they voted. That includes people like Manchin in WV.
We need to show politicians that attacking gun rights is complete and total political suicide. We need to establish a political "zero tolerance" policy for gun grabbers. We are just another shooting away from starting this all over again.
I would like to see the NRA at 7M by the end of 2013 and 10M by the midterms.
Every time some nutjob shoots some people the usual cast of characters will make a full court press to pass their favorite anti-gun bill.
We will constantly face this threat to Second Amendment. Even at best there will be the constant threat of shortages and panic buying.
Eternal vigilance.....
Oh, and we must go on offense. Don't wait to become a victim of legislation.
Hunter Rose
02-08-13, 12:19
I think the immediate threat is over. Today is the first day since SandyHook that the front page of cnn.com does not have an article or link to Gun Control.
I think one corner has been turned in that the media has started to move on. The ex-LAPD nut, drone issues, etc. have replaced gun control in the news cycle.
Gun control has laways been an emotional appeal, and the emotions seem to have subsided.
Those two states were always a lost cause.
I'll feel more comfortable when the bills die, too. I just feel like the liberal anti-gun momentum has died and all their hysterics backfired on them.
Again, If you think that the issue is dead or dying, pay attention to what's happening in Minnesota, a midwestern state (not California or New York) with a high percentage of firearms ownership and a very strong hunting tradition. This is a shall-issue state that for the last 10 years, with passage of the Minnesota Personal Protection Act, has had a pretty liberal firearms policy...in many or most respects more firearms freedoms than even Texas, for example. And all of this in a state that really has no history of any high-capacity firearms tragedies, certainly nothing that even approximates any of the drama seen elsewhere in the country over the last decade.
I don't for a minute believe that Minnesota's HF241 sprang forth all by itself from the tiny minds in Minnesota's Democratic-majority legislature. This was pushed from the national level.
Don't get me wrong, I like and respect GWB, but this announcement made just about as much sense...
http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz32/Kogie_photos/Bush-Mission-Accomplished.jpg
Doc Safari
02-08-13, 14:29
I don't for a minute believe that Minnesota's HF241 sprang forth all by itself from the tiny minds in Minnesota's Democratic-majority legislature. This was pushed from the national level.
You may be onto something in the sense that they know a national gun ban is not going to fly, so they are going to concentrate on state legislatures.
Literally, minutes before reading your post, I found out New Mexico (my state) has introduced a bill similar to New York's. I'm sure it won't get anywhere, but just the fact that it was introduced is somewhat unprecedented.
Don't get me wrong, I like and respect GWB, but this announcement made just about as much sense...
http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz32/Kogie_photos/Bush-Mission-Accomplished.jpg
Just a FYI, that "Mission Accomplished" banner referred specifically to the mission of that Navy vessel in that particular operation.
It remains possible that Bush used his proximity to the banner to imply a message, but it is just as possible the media manufactured the association simply to discredit him.
True...hindsight IS 20/20...
Moose-Knuckle
02-08-13, 15:51
You may be onto something in the sense that they know a national gun ban is not going to fly, so they are going to concentrate on state legislatures.
Literally, minutes before reading your post, I found out New Mexico (my state) has introduced a bill similar to New York's. I'm sure it won't get anywhere, but just the fact that it was introduced is somewhat unprecedented.
As I was saying . . .
Alaskapopo
02-08-13, 18:03
I would rather the fight be on a state level so guys like me are not screwed over by guys living in DC that are anti gun. The silver lining is eventually some of these state laws will get to the Supreme Court.
Pat
No matter how many battles are won, it seems the war will never end. But I'm afraid our current battles are far from over.
It ain't over now and it ain't ever gonna be over. The founding fathers new it would never be over. That's why they TRIED to make it so we couldn't shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot 200 years later. We are pretty damn close to ventilating our foot right now. Some would argue we blew it off a long time ago and just don't realize it yet.
I think the immediate threat is over. Today is the first day since SandyHook that the front page of cnn.com does not have an article or link to Gun Control.
I think one corner has been turned in that the media has started to move on. The ex-LAPD nut, drone issues, etc. have replaced gun control in the news cycle.
Gun control has laways been an emotional appeal, and the emotions seem to have subsided.
The Gun Control talk is not gone from CNN, it has been carefully inserted into the coverage of the LAPD Nut story using language like "high powered assault-style" rifles every chance they get.
I wonder if the NRA is telling 'us' not to worry because so many of 'us' have been demanding LaPeirre find another job.
SeriousStudent
02-09-13, 14:19
Anyone who thinks this is over needs to be reminded of one fact ;
The NRA has 4 million members - there is an estimated 100 million gun owners in the US
96 % don't even care enough to join and support the one organization above all others, although not perfect, that fights daily for our 2A rights
As long as 4% are fighting for 96% it ain't over - and never will be
Mr. Vickers, I saw something today that would warm your heart.
I was in Cabela's, and they were signing up people for NRA memberships. If you joined the NRA for a year for $35, they gave you a Cabela's $25 gift card.
If you showed your NRA membership card and extended your existing membership, they'd give you a gift card and a NRA hat.
They had two people taking applications, and there was a line waiting. :)
And the local PD had a class on shotguns for home defense. Later today they are having a class on picking an AR.
Thank you again for all you are doing in this fight.
PdxMotoxer
02-09-13, 20:41
It is over when:
Walmart have Colt 6920s for $1100 available on the shelf.
Dick's have Troy AR on the shelf.
My local gun stores have primers and powders available again.
You can order Pmags from Brownells and they arrive in 3 days.
Local gun stores are stocked full of ARs and mags at pre December price.
Walmart's ammo shelves are full of .22 LR bulk packages, Winchester White Box 9mm/.40/.45 and .223.
I can keep going but you get the picture.
Whole heartedly agree with this ^^^
But i don't even see ANY of this starting to happen till we can turn on the TV and surf "news" shows and make it threw the full broadcast WITHOUT them talking about "gun control".
It's still pretty hot in the media so until something bigger and better comes up (like gas prices are soaring again) the focus will remain on
"we better stock up" mentality.
Here in OREGON "they" are still talking hi-cap mag Bans and AWB with a few other of our rights being taken away. :angry:
RogerinTPA
02-09-13, 22:45
Its not about conservative or liberal its about pro gun vs anti gun.
It's about both...but thanks for sharing.;)
It's about both...but thanks for sharing.;)
I have ALWAYS considered myself Pro-Constitution. At times I have been labeled a liberal and belittled, at times a conservative and belittled.
So to me, it is not about liberal vs. conservative. It's about our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
The people with political and monetary interests have done a wonderful job however of convincing us all that we are against one another, and the real issues are "liberal" or "conservative".
Alaskapopo
02-10-13, 00:23
It's about both...but thanks for sharing.;)
Its about both for you, not everyone.
Pat
No matter how many battles are won, it seems the war will never end. But I'm afraid our current battles are far from over.
Exactly right. It's a very bad thing to become complacent.
Events and antigun legislative efforts are not going to freeze in place.
Magic_Salad0892
02-10-13, 01:08
The battle will be over when it crosses the boundries of party affiliation.
Gun rights, is a civil rights issue. Democrats need to be on board as well.
I would rather the fight be on a state level so guys like me are not screwed over by guys living in DC that are anti gun. The silver lining is eventually some of these state laws will get to the Supreme Court.
Pat
Instead, we get screwed over by guys that live in Minneapolis, or Denver, or New York City.
I take your point, however. At least in this state, rural representation becomes a greater part of the whole and we are all just a little bit closer to the process. We are better able to influence our legislators at the state level. Not sure that applies to New York, for example. They tend to live in some kind of fantasyland where they perceive NYC to be the center of the universe, not just NY state.
I would rather the fight be on a state level so guys like me are not screwed over by guys living in DC that are anti gun. The silver lining is eventually some of these state laws will get to the Supreme Court.
Pat
How is that a silver lining? These laws will be upheld by the supreme court.
How is that a silver lining? These laws will be upheld by the supreme court.
DC v. Heller, or McDonald v. Chicago.
This jumped out to me, from the article:
...Wayne LaPierre, the fiery executive vice president...
Emphasis mine.
At what point did stuttering and mumbling incoherently come to equal "fiery" in the American lexicon?
This jumped out to me, from the article:
Emphasis mine.
At what point did stuttering and mumbling incoherently come to equal "fiery" in the American lexicon?
Good observation. Since he's an alarmingly ineffective speaker, we can probably assume this derived from his tendency to seemingly send our group down in flames after each speech. Think he's crashed a half-dozen or so theoretical aircraft the past few months alone.
DC v. Heller, or McDonald v. Chicago.
What fantasy land do you live in?
Do you really think a supreme court is going to overturn a ban on assault weapons given everything else that has been upheld lately?
What fantasy land do you live in?
Do you really think a supreme court is going to overturn a ban on assault weapons given everything else that has been upheld lately?
Considering Robert's cognitive hiatus the last go around I have my significant reservations that anything would be struck down, let alone retracting much of the precedent already in place.
thopkins22
02-10-13, 15:58
What fantasy land do you live in?
Do you really think a supreme court is going to overturn a ban on assault weapons given everything else that has been upheld lately?
I "think" the current court will. But it's exceptionally dangerous territory, because if they don't then we've got real trouble. Not the kind of thing I'd like to see attempted until/if there's ever a federal ban again.
What is "everything else?" Other than PPACA? For what it's worth, you thought that we would be see another federal AWB and magazine ban after Sandy Hook...not sure that you're the most reliable judge of what will or will not come out of Washington.
The reality is that most democrats simply don't care about guns. They don't care about protecting them obviously, but most of them really don't care about banning them either. Chuck Schumer has his staff watch the news every day, and figures out how to insert himself proactively into the news...this is indicative of most of their ideas. When the news moves on to something else, so do they.
Chuck Schumer might not be the best example, as he probably does actually care about banning guns, but it's an example that I know is true and shows how most politicians on both sides of the aisle tend to operate.
This panic benefitted everyone but the wallets of liberty minded Americans. The democrats benefited by getting to talk about gun control and appeasing the true believers without actually bringing the wrath down on themselves that making the vote brings. The republicans benefitted by taking a big stand and appeasing all of us. The NRA benefitted by upping their membership substantially and bringing in tons of money. The voters that simply don't care and vote on other issues were not moved at all. The news networks benefitted by having guaranteed good ratings and chatter surrounding their programming. Pierce Morgan benefitted by getting his name out there with something not related to wire tapping. Fear is good business. Unpopular votes on issues that millions of Americans feel strongly about when your not pleasing millions of others is bad business.
It's just like global warming. It's great to talk about, but at the end of the day any votes that come from it are totally irrelevant and potentially career ending.
We should NOT rest easy, it's not over nor will it be. We need to quit being satisfied with the status quo and start pushing for more on our side, so that heaven forbid "compromise" leaves us where we are. But we're going to make it through the current mess alright...other than those in NY and CA and maybe one or two other states that weren't alright in the first place.
What fantasy land do you live in?
My my. You are an angry man, aren't you?
What is "everything else?" Other than PPACA? For what it's worth, you thought that we would be see another federal AWB and magazine ban after Sandy Hook...not sure that you're the most reliable judge of what will or will not come out of Washington.
Seizing by eminent domain for an increased tax base? Upheld.
Who says we won't see an AWB? The legislative process hasn't started yet.
If the makeup of congress was slightly different, we would already have an AWB.
The AWB is coming back whether you want to admit that or not. It might not happen this year, but its coming.
It is over when:
Walmart have Colt 6920s for $1100 available on the shelf.
Dick's have Troy AR on the shelf.
My local gun stores have primers and powders available again.
You can order Pmags from Brownells and they arrive in 3 days.
Local gun stores are stocked full of ARs and mags at pre December price.
Walmart's ammo shelves are full of .22 LR bulk packages, Winchester White Box 9mm/.40/.45 and .223.
I can keep going but you get the picture.
It's only been a couple months and yet it seems to be a lifetime ago.
The fight is not over, not at all. We need to be vigilant in our efforts and continue to write our representatives demanding that our rights shall not be infringed.
Even though the legislative threat seems to have subsided, the liberal media continues to portray gun owners and a blight to America. I wish we could hold them accountable someway for their deceitful actions.
Alaskapopo
02-11-13, 03:39
How is that a silver lining? These laws will be upheld by the supreme court.
No they won't. The Heller decision was a win for us and the next one will be too. Have you read the Heller decision yet?
Pat
Alaskapopo
02-11-13, 03:41
Seizing by eminent domain for an increased tax base? Upheld.
Who says we won't see an AWB? The legislative process hasn't started yet.
If the makeup of congress was slightly different, we would already have an AWB.
The AWB is coming back whether you want to admit that or not. It might not happen this year, but its coming.
Yea that is the fighting spirit all right. I think that Washington was caught off guard at how organized and powerful the pro gun lobby actually was. As long as we stay as strong as we are now its not going to get passed.
Pat
Doc Safari
02-11-13, 10:21
I think that Washington was caught off guard at how organized and powerful the pro gun lobby actually was. As long as we stay as strong as we are now its not going to get passed.
Pat
I think that is the whole point of what the NRA chief is saying in my first post.
No, as many have pointed out, the fight will "never be over", but I definitely think the gun grabbers have lost the momentum at least at the national level.
Magic_Salad0892
02-11-13, 10:25
We need to start painting the anti-2A groups as racist, and we need to start gaining ground in the mainstream.
That way we can start repealing the other 4 gun ban laws.
I feel like folks are going to take a breather when this is over, and let the momentum die. We need to start abolishing laws in liberal states, get rid of background checks, repeal the full auto ban, and get rid of the NFA registry.
We need to start painting the anti-2A groups as racist, and we need to start gaining ground in the mainstream.
That way we can start repealing the other 4 gun ban laws.
I feel like folks are going to take a breather when this is over, and let the momentum die. We need to start abolishing laws in liberal states, get rid of background checks, repeal the full auto ban, and get rid of the NFA registry.
Get rid of background checks? So we're ok with letting felons, domestic abusers, and the mentally ill buy guns now?
Magic_Salad0892
02-11-13, 11:02
Get rid of background checks? So we're ok with letting felons, domestic abusers, and the mentally ill buy guns now?
They get guns illegally anyway. As long as shops retain the right to not sell to anybody they want, I think we'd be okay. If a gun shop wanted to back ground check somebody then they should be able to (with that person's consent) but it shouldn't be law.
In the past I've thought that background checks were necessary, and good, but in the last year or so I've come to the conclusion that background checks directly infringe upon several rights, namely: presumption of innocence, and 4473 forms create paper trails for weapons creating a de facto regisration, that has already been abused by the ATF.
(MistWolf actually sums up my feelings very well in other threads.)
And to clarify, I also believe that anybody who society deems safe enough to be released back into society should also be allowed to own a firearm. If society thinks they aren't responsible enough to own a gun, then they aren't responsible enough to be out of prison. And I also think that CCW permits are a violation of the 2A.
The fight is far from over. Those content with not changing current laws, might not understand that they're still being subjected to injustices that were supposed to be prevented by the Bill of Rights.
They get guns illegally anyway. As long as shops retain the right to not sell to anybody they want, I think we'd be okay. If a gun shop wanted to back ground check somebody then they should be able to (with that person's consent) but it shouldn't be law.
In the past I've thought that background checks were necessary, and good, but in the last year or so I've come to the conclusion that background checks directly infringe upon several rights, namely: presumption of innocence, and 4473 forms create paper trails for weapons creating a de facto regisration, that has already been abused by the ATF.
(MistWolf actually sums up my feelings very well in other threads.)
And to clarify, I also believe that anybody who society deems safe enough to be released back into society should also be allowed to own a firearm. If society thinks they aren't responsible enough to own a gun, then they aren't responsible enough to be out of prison. And I also think that CCW permits are a violation of the 2A.
The fight is far from over. Those content with not changing current laws, might not understand that they're still being subjected to injustices that were supposed to be prevented by the Bill of Rights.
Presumption of innocence? So do you think a cop asking to see your drivers license, insurance, and registration is also a violation of presumption of innocence?
Asking to see ID when buying alcohol?
Proving who you are when voting?
4473 is a different issue than background checks. We can do them without a 4473.
Presumption of innocence has to do with courts and that's it.
Magic_Salad0892
02-11-13, 11:55
I'm going to PM you instead of clogging up this thread.
It CAN'T be over. I still have stuff to list on Gunbroker! :mad:
For what it's worth, the legislature never was a possibility. I'd be more concered with the Musloid in cheif's disregard for the constitution and his new ATF thug.
Magic_Salad0892
02-11-13, 13:01
It CAN'T be over. I still have stuff to list on Gunbroker! :mad:
I thought you were preoccupied with driving up the prices of all the Bushmaster BCGs to over $500? :p
I thought you were preoccupied with driving up the prices of all the Bushmaster BCGs to over $500? :p
I lost over 50 BCGs auctions! :D
Magic_Salad0892
02-11-13, 13:11
I lost over 50 BCGs auctions! :D
I like to imagine that you were sweating your ass off hoping somebody would outbid you so you wouldn't have to buy a $400 DPMS BCG or something. Lol.
As many have said already, it is far from over.
All it means is that we have repelled this particular assault. But the anti-gunners are reexamining their plans, marshaling their forces, planning their next attack.
They know that another incident means they have another opportunity.
We should not wait for another incident, for another crisis. This is the time we as pro-firearm people should be mounting an offense, to keep the momentum we have throughout the country.
We need to continue to contact our elected officials, to thank them for supporting the Second Amendment, and to pledge our vote to them in exchange for doing the right thing. We need to push for things like national carry reciprocity, to push for states like NJ, NY and CA to back down their all too restrictive gun laws.
We allow liberals and anti-gunners (usually, but not always, one in the same) to dictate and control the political agenda. That needs to stop. We can no longer sit back and wait.
Keep the pressure on. Keep calling and writing our elected officials, keep getting friends and family to join the NRA. Even if you cannot donate, a steady increase in NRA members will help scare the anti-gunners.
I would also add that we should do our best to support anyone in the media and in Hollywood who has stated their support of the Second Amendment. Those who have done so, especially in Hollywood, have essentially put their career in jeopardy.
Someone said it seems like it's been forever since that terrible day in December, and they are right. Stress and the constant media barrage will do that.
We must stay the course, remain vigilant, resist complacency, and continue the push to keep, and even expand, our Second Amendment rights.
Magic_Salad0892
02-11-13, 13:23
We must stay the course, remain vigilant, resist complacency, and continue the push to keep, and even expand, our Second Amendment rights.
We need to use the same dirty propaganda tactics that they do, and we need to expand our rights. First things first. We need to get unlimited CCWs, and shitcan 4473s, or make seach/seizure warrants necessary for LEO/Gov agencies to see them.
The only way to beat them, is to take to the mainstream. Launch smear campaigns agains liberal politians, and paint them as the freedom haters they are.
They think we're dangerous, let's show them just how dangerous we can be. And that we don't need violence to do it. We can still stop this before it's too late.
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