View Full Version : Considering a 1911 for EDC.
Ok, my plan was to get a Glock 27 for a carry gun and to possibly use it as an ankle carry backup at work.
BUT I've found a brand new Kimber TLE II for about $850.00. I've always been intrigued by the 1911 and its classic lines, but in the fullsize version is this going to be a EDC gun? With a good leather gun belt and a crossbreed supertuck I think I could carry it concealed off duty (even during the summer). Does anyone else run this setup with a fullsize??
It seems like one of those "for the rest of my life" guns, something that i can be proud of and hand down to my kids (if and when).
Or should I just save some bucks and get a G27?
shaneinhisroom
02-07-13, 17:08
Depends on how you're built...some people conceal the 1911 better than others. I am lucky that I am built that I can conceal pretty much anything under the sun. In the pic below I am concealing a full size Wilson Combat with a Milt Sparks holster.
http://i.imgur.com/j7dXAII.jpg
Whatever you carry, just make sure your gun is reliable. Kimber's QC have been called into question more than a few times.
Also- I imagine some people can comfortably conceal a Glock 27 in an ankle, but just know that it's basically a 2 pound weight and I find it impossible to walk around with that much mass on my foot.
I like the Colt Commander XSE. It is lighter, as it is aluminum framed, and the shorter slide, and barrel make it a bit easier to carry.
For sure, i'll wring it out before I start carrying it daily. Untill then I'll be carrying a G35....which isnt small by any stretch of the imagination.
Im a bigger guy, 210Lbs 6'2", I lift weights so I have a V taper which helps. I also live in a climate that allows me to wear multiple layers most of the year (except june/july/august).
The only hang up I have is mag. capacity. I love the ergos of 1911's (who doesnt?). But 7-8rds? Of course Im required to carry a reload, so I guess that doesnt matter anyway.
Milt Sparks makes several leather holsters for 1911 IWB carry. The VM II works great. Alternatively, RC makes good kydex options. I have both for my 1911 platforms.
Having said that, the Glock 19/26 have become my favorite CCW platforms due to size, comfort, capacity, etc.
I carry a sig sauer c3 in a supertuck as my primary edc. I love it with my wilderness instructor belt.
Depends on how you're built...some people conceal the 1911 better than others. I am lucky that I am built that I can conceal pretty much anything under the sun. In the pic below I am concealing a full size Wilson Combat with a Milt Sparks holster.
http://i.imgur.com/j7dXAII.jpg
Whatever you carry, just make sure your gun is reliable. Kimber's QC have been called into question more than a few times.
Also- I imagine some people can comfortably conceal a Glock 27 in an ankle, but just know that it's basically a 2 pound weight and I find it impossible to walk around with that much mass on my foot.
Now show pictures of you walking around and bending over at various angles and reaching up over head. A straight on LOOK!! I can hide a 50 cal DE with just a t shirt tells only part of the story.
Even an aluminum 1911 is generally too heavy for me for EDC.
I would suggest an alloy frame model with a barrel no more than 4.25 inches.
Holsters - I have fancy leather ones but now I like Kydex inside pants.
I carry a carbon steel government in a Milt Sparks Summer Special II.
Two mags weak side in individual MS holders so that I can space them to my preference. I use either a MS leather or Wilderness Instructor 5 stitch gun belt.
I prefer this by far over: leather/kydex hybrids, VM style, and full kydex IWB.
The 1911 excels at IWB as compared to double stacks such as the 27 you noted.
Just remember. That Glock 27 holds one more more round, weighs 27 oz, hides better, won't rust, cost half the price and is likely more reliable.
shaneinhisroom
02-07-13, 21:52
Now show pictures of you walking around and bending over at various angles and reaching up over head. A straight on LOOK!! I can hide a 50 cal DE with just a t shirt tells only part of the story.
Walking around is no problem. I rarely have to bend down to do anything anyway. Just have to be aware of what you can and can't do. No one is going to stare at you to look for a gun. As long as you are mindful it's not a big deal.
When I'm out most of what I do is stand around and talk to people, or sit down. If I know I"m going to be active I put switch the 1911 out for a Shield 9mm, then I can do all the jumping around/bending down I want.
I started out with a 1911 for EDC. It was heavy and hampered by the 8 round capacity. I'd recommend going with something else for EDC, and using the 1911 for a range/target gun.
A Glock 21 is 1/4 lb lighter than a 1911 while holding 6 more rounds. It is many times more reliable and far more durable. It is actually ridiculous that the Marines went with a 1911 when there are so many better options. It is fun to carry, build, maintain, and shoot a 1911. But as a practical tool - plastic weighs less. If their budget gets cut and they have to slum it and buy $450 Glocks instead of $1800 1911s, I think they will be ok. I would rather have the tax money back. Four times the price of a much better pistol!
I know this is a 1911 section. I like 1911s well enough to have a lot of them. I have build several. Please take my comments in the context of a 1969 Camaro being cool, but as a collectible and not the best choice for current practical use. But in the context of fun and collectable cars it is great.
jstephens202
02-07-13, 23:39
I'm an average size middle age guy going to fat, but I EDC off-duty my Springfield full size 1911, spare mag and flashlight, everyday. As you said, paying attention to what you are doing is key to not exposing your carry piece. Takes work at first, then becomes second nature. I have carried my 1911 even in shorts and a t-shirt and no one knows it's there. Carry is a life style, you just have to remember that. I have found, what works best for me, is a Blade-Tech "Nano" IWB holster.
As for the Glock 27 on the ankle, it is my everyday duty backup gun in an ankle holster, no problems thus far. I must note though, I do wear boots on duty, so far no problems even when in foot pursuits.
At times I do carry my G27 or G36 as a primary, but not very often.:dirol:
I have never had much luck carrying extra mags on my belt, but it just occurred to me that I carry my pistols IWB and my mag carriers are all outside. Maybe during this snowstorm I will use that sheet of Kydex I just got to make an IWB 1911 and P7 mag carrier. Fun.
I EDC a railed, alloy frame S&W 1911PD 5" with Crimson Trace grips in a Milt Sparks EX. Very comfortable, very concealable and very reliable. It actually conceals better on me than a G-19 and I far prefer my accuracy and speed potential with it vs. a G-26.
For my last qual at the sheriff's office, I shot 100% with my duty G-21SF, G-19 and 1911PD back to back, but my group with the PD was noticeably better than the 19 and 21.
Just remember. That Glock 27 holds one more more round, weighs 27 oz, hides better, won't rust, cost half the price and is likely more reliable.
There's no likely about it, the G27 is absolutely the better carry pistol from a reliability standpoint.
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I've never had issues concealing a full size 1911. I carried a steel 4.25" or 5" 1911 every day for years. I prefer kydex holsters to leather and I'd recommend buying a Raven Phantom, since you can carry it OWB or IWB and it will hold the gun fairly snug to your side. If you never want to carry OWB, the Comp-tac CTAC is great and the MTAC hybrid is as well, slightly slower but more comfortable than the CTAC.
As far as magazine carry, I usually just carried my mags in a single or double leather mag pouch on my belt. I hate carrying mags IWB, and 1911 mags are so slim I have no trouble concealing them under a t-shirt.
OP - If you want a gun to pass down to your kids, buy a Wilson or Nighthawk or similar semi-custom. Kimber cares more about cosmetics than building the gun right. Seriously, spending under $2k on a serious use 1911 is a gamble.
Even if the gun seems to run correctly initially, problems might not turn up until you shoot a few thousand rounds through it. I've owned several low- to mid-range 1911s ($800-1500, various manufacturers) that were flawless up until about 2500 rounds, when suddenly problems started cropping up out of the blue. Chasing problems in a 1911 can be a serious pain in the ass, and since the majority of the parts in the gun require hand fitting you can easily build up a stack of gunsmith bills or else spend hours carefully filing, sanding, and polishing stuff yourself. After you fix it, you get to do all the reliability testing again to make sure it really works. Awesome.
Obviously, my advice is to buy the Glock 27 instead. Even if you had the most reliable 1911 in the world, I'd still tell you to carry a Glock or M&P instead. You get more capacity and better controls, they're extremely easy to fix on the infrequent occasions they break, easy and relatively cheap to modify, and they're just generally inexpensive. They are easy to use with winter gloves, which 1911s emphatically are not, at least for me. You don't have to worry about figuring out which brand and model of magazine your gun likes, which can be an expensive endeavor with a finicky 1911. Et cetera.
Why make things complicated by buying a 1911? There's no upside at all except the cool factor.
There's no likely about it, the G27 is absolutely the better carry pistol from a reliability standpoint.
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Why make things complicated by buying a 1911? There's no upside at all except the cool factor.
this...........
no reason... period
My EDC is a 4" Kimber TLE. With a 1911 you learn to dance with the bitch you brought....you learn to dress around the gun and also work on your reloads. I've carried 1911's Sig, Glock, but always come back to 1911's. It's all in what you want and it's up to you and you only as to what you will carry. There is no "perfect" pistol, there will always be pros and cons to everything.
I carry a 5" Kimber every day (say what you will, it has never given me a reason to question it's reliability). I started carrying it because that's what I had when I got my CCL. A 1911 is what I had been taught on and what I had practiced with.
If this is going to be your first 1911 I would not recommend using it as your EDC right away. It takes more work to get profeicient with them as a 1911 is a bit of a different animal.
theJanitor
02-08-13, 11:08
I shoot the 1911 the best (or suck with it the least, according to Bob). Is there any other real criteria for an edc gun?
Use what you are most effective with. If you find reason to use another platform, practice with it, until you are most effective with it, then switch.
If you go the 1911 route for EDC, I suggest you look at models with the bobbed grip. I have an EB Kobra Carry which is much easier to conceal than any other 1911.
If you have your heart set on a 1911 for EDC, don't let anyone change your mind....but understand its limitations and embarrass them. You will have to practice your draw stroke A LOT to get used to the thumb safety and such. Regular care is needed too, cleaning, oiling, checking this or that and keeping it ready to go. Good mags (Wilson Combat IMHO) and find ammo YOUR gun will feed. Not all 1911's will feed every single type of hollow point out there, some guns are picky eaters.
It is sometime irritating that those whom complain about round cour in a 1911 are sometimes the same people who CCW a 5 shot S&W air weight and feel comfortable with that and that alone.
Ya Im still thinking about it.
Maintenance doesnt bother me, and the weight doesnt scare me either. I spend 10hrs a day carrying 4x the weight of a 1911 around my waist, its not an issue.
I have a feeling with the proper belt/holster setup i'll be ok
Now from what I gather, the 4" models are kinda frowned upon?? Is this because its not the "traditional" 1911, or do they have more malfunction issues?
I have heard of 3 and 3.5 inch barrels being frowned on - less easy to make reliable.
I never heard of 4 or 4.25 inch models being frowned on.
As a general rule-no shorter than 4" on any 1911. If you get a Kimber, make sure it's a steel frame model and right off the bat call Wolff Springs and tell them you want the Wolff pattern spring for a 4" Kimber.
I also dumped the FLGR out of mine and instead run a GI type Commander length in mine, thus eliminating the need for the little take down tool. I personally like the bushing less battle design on the 4" I have but to each their own.
All good info guys.
Thanks.
I do have a 3 inch 1911 on order, and will find out if they are reliable. I have a theory that bushingless designs are fine for short barrels.
Not one to tell you what to get, but the 4" TLE has everything you'd want in a EDC (other than finish) it has 30 LPI front strap checkering, single sided safety, and Meprolight night sights.
FWIW-I also dumped the plastic MSH for an aluminum one. It's all end user preference. Hope this helps.....
If you go the 1911 route for EDC, I suggest you look at models with the bobbed grip. I have an EB Kobra Carry which is much easier to conceal than any other 1911.
Surprisingly true, you would be amazed how much difference it makes. I wish I could use bobtails but my hands are a little too large, so I go with a rounded butt which isn't as good but is definitely better than a normal grip.
My choices are
Full Size: Kimber Custom II
Compact: Kimber Pro Carry II
Im leaning toward the Pro Carry. I'll try to take a look at both, and continue to educate myself on the 1911 platform.
Thanks again for the insight.
theJanitor
02-08-13, 19:39
those are your options? get a G27, and a G22.
Seriously
All good info guys.
Thanks.
Not all...there's crap info too
The Pro Carry is an aluminum frame gun. You will have issues with it down the road. Trust me, stick with a steel frame.
those are your options? get a G27, and a G22.
Seriously
Would you care to expound as to why?
The Pro Carry is an aluminum frame gun. You will have issues with it down the road. Trust me, stick with a steel frame.
From anyone or just Kimber?
Would you care to expound as to why?
Way lighter, higher mag capacity, maybe about 5x more reliable. But if you want a 1911, get a 1911. People love them for various reasons - the best reason being if you like the crisp single-action trigger and the others are mostly nostalgic.
theJanitor
02-08-13, 21:43
Way lighter, higher mag capacity, maybe about 5x more reliable. But if you want a 1911, get a 1911. People love them for various reasons - the best reason being if you like the crisp single-action trigger and the others are mostly nostalgic.
Almost. If you want a 1911, get a proven 1911. I'm a die-hard 1911 guy, and I've owned 1911s of all colors (including an awesome Kimber). I carry a Colt every day, and even as I type this, I've had a 1911 on my hip for the past 13 hours straight. But I've seen way too many of those "II" series guns choke, to recommend one for any serious use. One of my best bud's series II wouldn't work right, even after a trip to a very good smith. What does he carry? a MARS THUG.
Would I recommend a stock Colt, Springer, or DW too? Probably not. Unless they get a trip to my smith, and garner a thumbs up. But he's not likely to give that seriesII gun the nod.
The best buy, IMO, right now for a suitable, out-of-the-box 1911 is a TRP.
If it weren't for the fact that I'm so entrenched in the 1911, and don't have the time, money, and opportunity to master the Glocks that I do own, I'd park the 1911's in the safe. I HATE to say it, but the Glock is a damn good gun.
You say you want a "rest of your life" 1911. That's a fine reason, but don't think they're all created equal.
Bolt_Overide
02-08-13, 22:48
I have owned many 1911s, several high end ones, and still have about the nicest miller custom one could want. I can shoot the lights out with the damn things.
I carry a 9mm glock.
Almost. If you want a 1911, get a proven 1911. I'm a die-hard 1911 guy, and I've owned 1911s of all colors (including an awesome Kimber). I carry a Colt every day, and even as I type this, I've had a 1911 on my hip for the past 13 hours straight. But I've seen way too many of those "II" series guns choke, to recommend one for any serious use. One of my best bud's series II wouldn't work right, even after a trip to a very good smith. What does he carry? a MARS THUG.
Would I recommend a stock Colt, Springer, or DW too? Probably not. Unless they get a trip to my smith, and garner a thumbs up. But he's not likely to give that seriesII gun the nod.
The best buy, IMO, right now for a suitable, out-of-the-box 1911 is a TRP.
If it weren't for the fact that I'm so entrenched in the 1911, and don't have the time, money, and opportunity to master the Glocks that I do own, I'd park the 1911's in the safe. I HATE to say it, but the Glock is a damn good gun.
You say you want a "rest of your life" 1911. That's a fine reason, but don't think they're all created equal.
Very good advice - pay attention. I'm a 1911 guy myself and have seen too many out-of-the box "mass produced" guns choke at matches. The original JMB guns were tuned by craftsman after all.
The early Kimbers were excellent - then they were not. Somewhere along the line they became another flashy marketing company (IMO).
Spend the extra money up front for a semi-custom like the TRP or a Wilson CQB or expect to have it worked over by a reputable pistol smith. Even then I would rate a basic Springfield as a better buy. And (IMO) stay with a 5" barrel.
Colts? I've had two - and they shot well and were reliable, but I could not stand the hammer leaning way over to starboard. Maybe they have fixed that issue by now.
mannichine
02-09-13, 00:48
As for the Glock 27 on the ankle, it is my everyday duty backup gun in an ankle holster, no problems thus far. I must note though, I do wear boots on duty...
What ankle holster? How high are your boots? Thanks.
If you want a good out of the box 1911 get a springer. I have heard colts are on the way back up with the new focus on the consumer market. They are fitted better and have less sharp edges, but I am a hardcore springer fan. So far I have owned a loaded and a TRP. The TRP is more recent and I carry it on duty, the loaded has been my carry gun for the last 6 years. The only thing I replaced right out of the box were the mags and I swapped to a gi recoil setup. I have found that my guns run the best with chip McCormack mags so I use those.
I carry in a Vera Max 2 style holster with a good beltman belt. The weight is comforting and I only take it off to sleep at night. Its comfortable enough that I can nap with it on. I tried carrying glocks, sigs and berettas, but I find that the extra width makes them harder to conceal.
If you want to carry a 1911 do it, just don't cheap out on the gun, holster or belt.
I'm referring to aluminum frame Kimber's with that statement.
What issues have you seen when you say "Series II choke"? I'm curious. I never was a Kimber fan until I went looking for a Commander size to carry, so I thought I'd give them a try. I won't lie, I've done a lot of work to mine (now all 3 of my Kimber's) but none of them have let me down yet.
Any firearm can and will fail....it's a mechanical devise that has more than 2 moving parts. Nothing will ever be a 100% reliable weapon under every single situation except for a rock.
Magic_Salad0892
02-09-13, 10:21
If I were getting a 1911 to carry, and I needed something simple.
Colt XSE Commander in .45ACP. (Series 80. If you appendix carry.)
10-8 sights, and trigger.
Send it off to a (good/reputable) smith for a basic reliability package, mild dehorn, and 15 lpi checkering. Cerakote black. Wilson mags.
Good to go.
I've been trying hard to stave off the urge to do that for like 2 years.
If anybody has any reason that advice sucks, feel free to post.
May I ask why 15 LPI for a daily carry? More curious as to wanting it so course.
Based on all of the mistakes in my life related to guns, I strongly suggest that you don't "send your gun off to a 'smith."
Just buy a factory 1911. It should work. If it does not work, you bought the wrong one.
I did silly things like would buy a new pistol, send it of to a smith, and have him do many things to it - such as install a BAR-STO barrel - without even having evidence that there was anything wrong with my factory barrel. Don't buy a pistol that needs gunsmithing.
If Kimber is your price range do yourself a favor and buy any 5 inch Springfield with a barrel bushing. Shoot at least a few thousand rounds before you carry it. If it needs anything sent it back to Springfields Custom Shop. Buy a good Milt Sparks belt and IWB holster and call it a day. Kimber's custom shop is nothing more than a rude voice on the phone and a call tag.
I have two Springfield Professionals and carry a Glock 19 99% of the time.
Based on all of the mistakes in my life related to guns, I strongly suggest that you don't "send your gun off to a 'smith."
Just buy a factory 1911. It should work. If it does not work, you bought the wrong one.
I would agree. There is no voodoo magic to 1911's, and they don't have to be blessed by a witch doctor to run right. Buy a factory gun and shoot it. If it doesn't work right, the factory screwed up. That's what warranties are for. Let them fix their mistakes on their dime.
If you know a pistol needs a few thousand rounds to trust it - then how can that be a recommended pistol?
Note, I AM a 1911 fan.
Don't use a 1911 for CCW!
With that out of the way, a cheap, MIM filled 1911 (which is what a Kimber is) would be one of my LAST choices to bet my life on.
There are some Golden rules when thinking about your carry gun.
Rule # 1: Carry as big a gun as you can hide.
Rule # 2: Carry the most reliable gun you can.
Rule # 3: The more rounds the better.
Rule # 4: Size/weight to ammo ratio.
The 1911 has a reduced capacity, is heavy, is the KING of the feed way stoppage and is typically DOUBLE to TRIPLE the cost of a more reliable polymer gun.
If you are going to ignore my advice (and the advice of some of the best firearms instructors in the WORLD), then at least buy a QUALITY 1911. My first choice would be a WC. If that is too rich for your blood, buy a Colt or a Springer and send it to a pistolsmith that is KNOWN for building reliable (combat grade) pistols.
C4
I would agree. There is no voodoo magic to 1911's, and they don't have to be blessed by a witch doctor to run right. Buy a factory gun and shoot it. If it doesn't work right, the factory screwed up. That's what warranties are for. Let them fix their mistakes on their dime.
While I wouldn't call it "voodoo magic" in order to make a 1911 run properly, there is a lot (and I mean a lot) of knowledge needed to build a combat grade (read reliable) 1911.
From my experience with SIG and Kimber, they will make YOU pay to send a gun back for warranty work. As a non-FFL, this means $60-$80 dollars (both ways) on YOUR dime for shipping!
People need to realize that a 1911 is ONLY as good as the pistolsmith assembling it. Some are better at it than others. When buying a mass produced 1911, you are rolling the dice with a different outcome every single time.
C4
I would say go to a range with a range of pistols. 9mm, 40, 45 - shoot them all for score. Only carry 40 or 45 if you can shoot it as well as the 9mm. Or else, carry 9mm because you are not qualified to carry larger. If people followed this, and everyone should, then 40 would not be 3x as popular as 9mm - it would be far less popular - because it is a rare person who can shoot 40 as well as 9mm. Shot placement is what matters. My reference standard is a P7 in 9mm. So far, the only pistol I can shoot as well or better is a Sig P210. I am going to use willpower and not carry a 45 until I can score as well with it. So far, I don't see that happening.
Basically no police department should issue 40 or 45 as standard. They should let officers use it if and only if they are superor shots with it.
If you know a pistol needs a few thousand rounds to trust it - then how can that be a recommended pistol?
It is not. I recommend an older g19 gen3. If you just have to carry a production 1911 at least do this.
Buy a factory gun and shoot it. If it doesn't work right, the factory screwed up. That's what warranties are for. Let them fix their mistakes on their dime.
If you're gonna go this route I'd get a Springfield. Their customer service is good and repairs quick.
I've had experience with just about all the high end 1911s and the one I'd carry to a gun fight would either be a Springfield Custom Carry (Pro) or a Wilson Combat. And I'd probably bring it with 230 grain FMJ.
At one point in time I had over $10K in a few 1911s (not counting mags and ammo) and I still ended carrying and shooting a Glock 19...
If you are concerned about feeding, Remington Golden Saber has a good feeding profile. That is probably why the FBI still prefers it.
Magic_Salad0892
02-09-13, 22:51
May I ask why 15 LPI for a daily carry? More curious as to wanting it so course.
It feels nice when you actually shoot it. And carrying it isn't too bad in my opinion.
(A friend of mine let me borrow his Colt Commander to carry for a few weeks so that I could see what it was like, as I'm trying to learn as much about 1911s as I can right now.)
You might wanna listen to the others in this thread a little more than me, because when it comes to 1911s, I'm not the most well versed. But I do have some opinions on the matter, and I hope they help. More experienced members can validate them (what I've said in this thread), or give a reason as to why they're wrong.
Ive found for my personal preference 30 LPI is good. 15 is pretty aggressive unless your wearing gloves.
I've been around 1911's for years and I'm always open to new ideas and options on them but as its been stated already in this thread-it all comes down to personal preference and what the needs are.
jstephens202
02-10-13, 00:07
What ankle holster? How high are your boots? Thanks.
I wear a DeSantis Apache ankle holster currently. Does thejob for me, although I've had to replace it once due to the safety snap breaking.
Boots are standard "combat boots" and I wear my holster around them rather then on the leg itself. Just more comfortable for me that way, other views may vary!
Note: in bad weather, i.e., snow, I carry my backup Glock 27 in a Kramer Shirt Holster over my vest. Why not carry it there all the time? Ankle just works out better for me as we are not allowed zipper front uniform shirts to allow easy access. Ankle carry is just easier for me at present.:dirol:
I LOVE 1911's, I think they're a work of art. If I had to make one shot that meant everything I'd want a 1911 in my hands. Having said that, if I had to go to war or knew I was walking into a gun fight I'd want a Glock 17/19 in my hands.
Have the 1911 as your Home Defense/Range Queen. Have the Glock 19 as your business gun.
Ive found for my personal preference 30 LPI is good. 15 is pretty aggressive unless your wearing gloves.
I've been around 1911's for years and I'm always open to new ideas and options on them but as its been stated already in this thread-it all comes down to personal preference and what the needs are.
20 LPI is aggressive and comes standard on a few (Springfield HRT), 30 is probably the most common. I've never seen 15 LPI checkering on a pistol (not saying it does not exist).
Now you guys have me wanting a new 1911.
IWB holsters: The Milt Sparks SSII is my favorite (I have three).
Magic_Salad0892
02-10-13, 01:10
I LOVE 1911's, I think they're a work of art. If I had to make one shot that meant everything I'd want a 1911 in my hands. Having said that, if I had to go to war or knew I was walking into a gun fight I'd want a Glock 17/19 in my hands.
Have the 1911 as your Home Defense/Range Queen. Have the Glock 19 as your business gun.
I truely believe that both pistols can serve both roles admirably.
However, I'm partial to Glock pistols.
If you're going to go with a 1911 though, get ready to go balls deep or it just isn't worth it.
The problem is this:
Everybody goes by the "Fear the man with one gun for he knows how to use it." rule. I don't want to be the man with one gun. I want to be the man with any gun. (But my logical brain hasn't been able to justify it enough to actually make the financial dive.)
I tried a Glock for carry and spent some time with it. Then shooting the 1911 in competition, I was breaking my shots early (3.5 Lb and clean single stage Vs ~7 Lbs mushy on the Glock). I decided that (for me) to be safe I would just stay with the 1911 platform.
If you are going to ignore my advice (and the advice of some of the best firearms instructors in the WORLD), then at least buy a QUALITY 1911. My first choice would be a WC. If that is too rich for your blood, buy a Colt or a Springer and send it to a pistolsmith that is KNOWN for building reliable (combat grade) pistols.C4
Baer too
I shoot the 1911 the best (or suck with it the least, according to Bob). Is there any other real criteria for an edc gun?
Thank you... after prolonged shooting with a good 1911, switching to a Glock can be a sobering experience. I can knock the eye out of a caribou at sixty paces with a 1911, with a Glock, I'd be more likely to pepper his skull randomly. If shot placement is critical to you, go 1911.
As a general rule-no shorter than 4" on any 1911. If you get a Kimber, make sure it's a steel frame model and right off the bat call Wolff Springs and tell them you want the Wolff pattern spring for a 4" Kimber.
I've been taught by wise men since a tender age that it's not the barrel length that affects concealability on a 1911 - it's slim, so that extra inch of barrel probably isn't going to kill you - it's the grip length. The grip is what prints when you're trying to conceal a 1911.
...and no offense to you guys with the custom jobs and high-priced dealies, but...
Forget all the Kimber crap that out's there.. and all those $2000 custom jobs - I would look for an old Colt. I grew up with a Series 70 Gold Cup, and every 1911 I've shot since feels like dookie in comparison.
theJanitor
02-10-13, 19:38
if I had to go to war or knew I was walking into a gun fight I'd want a Glock 17/19 in my hands.
Have the 1911 as your Home Defense/Range Queen. Have the Glock 19 as your business gun.
:confused: So carrying a 1911 is ok, only if you think you're NOT going to need it? and you categorize range queen and home defense gun together, but different from going to war? this makes no sense.
CARRY AND USE THE WEAPON YOU CAN FIGHT THE BEST WITH. who cares what anyone else says or thinks? Who cares what anyone else uses? The only thing that matters, is that when you REALLY need it, it works, and you're the most effective with it.
this is not rocket science, guys
Ok. Glock 23 or 27 it will be. K.I.S.S.....
I'll probably end up saving for a Wilson Combat.
Magic_Salad0892
02-10-13, 22:34
CARRY AND USE THE WEAPON YOU CAN FIGHT THE BEST WITH
NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.
This is as bad as the argument "Carry whatever you shoot best."
No. The proper way to select a weapon (IMHO) is select a number of pistols that fit your mission. On paper, establish several criteria.
Magazine Capacity
Materials Used In Construction (steels, heat treatments, etc.)
Caliber
Availability of parts
Accuracy
Ergonomics (this would include trigger characteristics)
Price
Size/Weight
Ease of maintenence
Estimated service life
Reliability/Durability/Track Record (ask people who have a lot of experience shooting, specifically look at what professional instructors use, and listen to what they have to say. Take a sample size of multiple instructors and their students, and see if there are any similarities in gear that they use.)
Once you've established the features of each pistol on this list, rule out the undesirable pistols. Rent the rest. Shoot them, and figure out which one you think works best for you, and stick with it.
When you get into "Pick the one you fight best with." you run into problems:
Well... what if he fights best with a Hi Point, or an Officer's 1911? What if he fights best with a Taurus PT24/7 DAO? Or even a Taurus Judge?
Those are shitty fighting pistols. I don't care if somebody fights best with them. They need a new gun. (And yes. I've met somebody who actually did prefer a Taurus PT24/7DAO to a G19.)
You need to establish your mission, and the best choice for it. Train around the gun if you absolutely have to. There are a lot of good choices. Glock, S&W M&P, HK, newer SIG pistols don't seem to be absolute trash, Walther, Kahr, Colt/WC/NH/Custom 1911s, Berettas.
There are some good choices. Establish criteria. Pick the pistol that best meets yours. The same way the military would contract a pistol. You're a customer. Same as them.
For the last seven years (since I turned 21) I've been carrying a Springfield Armory 1911 Loaded. Though when I got mine they came with Novak sights, not the adjustable rear sight they do now. It's a great gun, and I love it, but I just bought a M&P9. Once I get enough rounds through it to consider it broken in I'll be carrying it. If, however you are dead set on carrying a 1911 you could do far worse than Springfield.
theJanitor
02-11-13, 01:19
This is as bad as the argument "Carry whatever you shoot best."
No. The proper way to select a weapon (IMHO) is select a number of pistols that fit your mission. On paper, establish several criteria.
Magazine Capacity
Materials Used In Construction (steels, heat treatments, etc.)
Caliber
Availability of parts
Accuracy
Ergonomics (this would include trigger characteristics)
Price
Size/Weight
Ease of maintenence
Estimated service life
Reliability/Durability/Track Record (ask people who have a lot of experience shooting, specifically look at what professional instructors use, and listen to what they have to say. Take a sample size of multiple instructors and their students, and see if there are any similarities in gear that they use.)
Once you've established the features of each pistol on this list, rule out the undesirable pistols. Rent the rest. Shoot them, and figure out which one you think works best for you, and stick with it.
When you get into "Pick the one you fight best with." you run into problems:
Well... what if he fights best with a Hi Point, or an Officer's 1911? What if he fights best with a Taurus PT24/7 DAO? Or even a Taurus Judge?
Those are shitty fighting pistols. I don't care if somebody fights best with them. They need a new gun. (And yes. I've met somebody who actually did prefer a Taurus PT24/7DAO to a G19.)
You need to establish your mission, and the best choice for it. Train around the gun if you absolutely have to. There are a lot of good choices. Glock, S&W M&P, HK, newer SIG pistols don't seem to be absolute trash, Walther, Kahr, Colt/WC/NH/Custom 1911s, Berettas.
There are some good choices. Establish criteria. Pick the pistol that best meets yours. The same way the military would contract a pistol. You're a customer. Same as them.
My mission is to come out of a fight the winner. and It's not about shooting, it's about fighting, with a gun.
criteria like price and maintenance and ease of finding spare parts are irrelevant to many with the budget to negate those weaknesses.
You are right when you say to establish criteria, and to pick a pistol to meet yours. but if you end up more proficient with a "lesser" gun, then rock it.
even if you follow your recipe for selecting a pistol, the final judgement of what to carry will be what you can be most efficient with.
and as for the government being the best selectors of sidearms, lots of dept's still issue revolvers, DA S&W (like the PD here which issues 5906), and the like :rolleyes:
Heck, the USMC bought Colt rail guns.
I stand by my statement, use what you're the most proficient with. How you get to the point where you know what you're the most proficient with is the difficult part.
What is wrong with an Officer's 1911 and a Taurus 24/7?
Maybe this statement will sum up where this discussion has turn-carry what YOU want, it's your ass on the line and if someone doesn't like what you carry, who cares-IT'S YOUR ASS ON THE LINE!
It doesn't matter if you spend $500 or $5,000 on a pistol. The person behind the trigger has to make the damn thing work. Again, a firearm is a mechanical object that can and WILL break, it just depends on how long it takes for this to happen.
I have crossbreed holsters for my 1911, M9, and G22. I am able to comfortably carry any of the three and keep them concealed well. My best advice would be to carry what you could shoot the best with, and worry about concealing it second.
[QUOTE]
It doesn't matter if you spend $500 or $5,000 on a pistol. The person behind the trigger has to make the damn thing work. [QUOTE]
Sorry, but this does not hold true in the world of the 1911.
Magic_Salad0892
02-11-13, 08:25
My mission is to come out of a fight the winner. and It's not about shooting, it's about fighting, with a gun.
criteria like price and maintenance and ease of finding spare parts are irrelevant to many with the budget to negate those weaknesses.
You are right when you say to establish criteria, and to pick a pistol to meet yours. but if you end up more proficient with a "lesser" gun, then rock it.
even if you follow your recipe for selecting a pistol, the final judgement of what to carry will be what you can be most efficient with.
and as for the government being the best selectors of sidearms, lots of dept's still issue revolvers, DA S&W (like the PD here which issues 5906), and the like :rolleyes:
Heck, the USMC bought Colt rail guns.
I stand by my statement, use what you're the most proficient with. How you get to the point where you know what you're the most proficient with is the difficult part.
First off, I don't mean that the government is the best selector of sidearms. Simply that they establish criteria, and then pick the pistol that best fits it. I just personally think that it's kind of backwards to shoot a pistol well, and use it just because it's the gun you have the most experience with or shoot the best with naturally, even if the gun is a piece of shit. In that case, I'd find a better gun and train around it.
(Also rsilvers, the Taurus PT24/7 is subject to Taurus QC, which is reason enough to run the other direction, and Officer style 1911s don't have a good reputation as high round count pistols. They may be fine to carry, and shoot a bit. But not high round counts like a fighting pistol, from what I know of them.)
:confused: So carrying a 1911 is ok, only if you think you're NOT going to need it? and you categorize range queen and home defense gun together, but different from going to war? this makes no sense.
CARRY AND USE THE WEAPON YOU CAN FIGHT THE BEST WITH. who cares what anyone else says or thinks? Who cares what anyone else uses? The only thing that matters, is that when you REALLY need it, it works, and you're the most effective with it.
this is not rocket science, guys
My 1911 is a range queen, and yes I categorize home defense as different from going to war/duty. I'm sorry that doesn't make sense to you. I shoot a 1911 more accurately than I shoot a glock. But I shoot a glock faster, as in rounds on target faster, I reload it faster, I have to reload less, and carry a lot more rounds. I love my 1911, and for home defense where the odds of needing it are slim, and the odds of doing a mag exchange are even slimmer I would be comfortable with it in that role. Especially since it only has to get me to my rifle which is only 15 feet from my nightstand. When I go to work, and have to draw my weapon on pretty much a nightly basis, and at times at multiple subjects, I would want all the aforementioned benefits the Glock would give me over that slight accuracy advantage the 1911 gives me. Unfortunately I don't have that choice, because I'm issued a P220. So I'm basically carrying a 1911 in regards to mag capacity, and while I'm comfortable doing it I would prefer a Glock 17.
theJanitor
02-11-13, 10:06
On paper, the G34 is the best gun to use. But you can't recommend that to everyone. At some point, personal performance with that pistol becomes the most important, determining factor.
rsilvers, I can't honestly recommend an officer's model, either. I've had a few. If you can run an Officer's model, you can run a CCO. But, honestly, EDC'ing a gov't 1911 isn't that hard.
BUT, if for some odd reason, you're the most proficient with it, I won't try and steer you away from it, I'd try to help you mitigate it's weaknesses. I'd recommend a training gun, and a duplicate carry gun. I'd remind you to keep up on maintenance and spring replacement, etc. and I'd probably throw in a few G26 comments in between :D
Using a 1911, whether CCW or in a duty holster is a "life choice". Meaning you need to be dedicated to the platform like you're dedicated to your wife and family.
Choose a quality pistol, have it tuned and learn diagnose, maintain and tune it yourself. Keep on hand a supply of parts and tools needed to keep it up and running.
Its not a pistol you throw on when you want to look "cool" or "tactical".
Otherwise, pick a quality, current manufactured polymer pistol.
OK GUYS DISCUSSION IS OVER.
I bought a G27 today. Now if the ATF will just let me have it....
OK GUYS DISCUSSION IS OVER.
I bought a G27 today. Now if the ATF will just let me have it....
Congratulations. If I may ask, what made you decide on the 27 over the 23?
Availability. I found a G27 locally. Plus it has a shorter grip, which the G23 doesnt (atleast i believe it doesnt).
BLACK LION
02-14-13, 20:00
My choice wouldnt be a Kimber, no matter how much some owners claim they lovwe them.
If its a choice between a Kimber and a Glock well then my choice would be the Glock.
Here is a pic of my operator...
Ok, my plan was to get a Glock 27 for a carry gun and to possibly use it as an ankle carry backup at work.
BUT I've found a brand new Kimber TLE II for about $850.00. I've always been intrigued by the 1911 and its classic lines, but in the fullsize version is this going to be a EDC gun? With a good leather gun belt and a crossbreed supertuck I think I could carry it concealed off duty (even during the summer). Does anyone else run this setup with a fullsize??
It seems like one of those "for the rest of my life" guns, something that i can be proud of and hand down to my kids (if and when).
Or should I just save some bucks and get a G27?
fwiw i've owned a number of kimbers in my day and each and every one of them had numerous and ongoing FTF issues. i would strongly recommend looking at springfield and/or colt for a better priced 1911. not to mention pretty crappy customer service at kimber. i mean, they were nice enough but charged me for second day postage to get it there for extractor problems out of the box. i promptly sold all of my kimbers and would never buy another.
A Glock 21 is 1/4 lb lighter than a 1911 while holding 6 more rounds. It is many times more reliable and far more durable. It is actually ridiculous that the Marines went with a 1911 when there are so many better options.
where are your sources for this information? a glock is "many times more reliable and far more durable"? than EVERY 1911 ever made? that's a hell of a claim. i'd love to see the data on that . . .
where are your sources for this information? a glock is "many times more reliable and far more durable"? than EVERY 1911 ever made? that's a hell of a claim. i'd love to see the data on that . . .
The main benifit with the Glock and many of the other plastic pistols is that the all run well out of the box. Parts are easily changed and they do not require hand fitting. I'm heavily invested in the 1911 platform. It's been my EDC for the last 22 years. They are very durable but they require periodic maintence especially when run hard. In the last year Glock has become my EDC. Why? I want more bullets in this crazy world and I want to shoot more and wrench less on pistols.
I would agree that for most the Glock is a better EDC.
The 1911 takes training, time and money. I carry a full size Wilson 1911 with a great number of rounds and classes.
The Glock is cheaper and holds more rounds but I shoot the 1911 much better. It took me sometime to be able to afford the Wilson, was it worth it, to me yes, for others maybe not.
I have a Glock 19, several M&Ps and a few Sigs, none have let me down but I always go back to the 1911 no matter how hard I have tried to change.
My choice wouldnt be a Kimber, no matter how much some owners claim they lovwe them.
If its a choice between a Kimber and a Glock well then my choice would be the Glock.
Here is a pic of my operator...
i can't wait. have one in jail right now. how do you like it so far?
For the sake of posterity. I bought a DW CBOB as my first handgun and first CCW. I replaced it with a Glock 17.
Just FWIW.
For the sake of posterity. I bought a DW CBOB as my first handgun and first CCW. I replaced it with a Glock 17.
Just FWIW.
I had a 2011 VBOB. To put it nicely, it was a piece of shit.
Springfield TRP Armory Kote is going to be my carry gun, carrying my MC Operator until I save up the pennies for the TRP.
I bought my Kimber TLE II about five years ago. Carried it in a Blackhawk Check Six holster for two years before switching to a Glock and then a HK USPc for EDC.
That Kimber has been flawless for five years...simply can't say enough good things about it. I still carry it from time to time, and am thinking about another 1911 as my next purchase...most likely a Commander of some type.
Everyone I've known who owns a Kimber raves about them. The only negatives I've ever seen related to them is here on the internet. I'd buy a Kimber again in a heartbeat, but may go with a Colt to match my AR. ;)
Gotta toss in my .02 on this one.
My 7-8 season, or jacket wearing-while-riding EDC is a P30. I know everyone is all over the Glock 19, and its a fine gun, but I like the ergos on the HK and I do believe that a comfortable and reliable EDC is one firearm worth not skimping on.
But for t shirt season? Springfield Champion. I like the full frame 1911, but I can draw and make one jagged hole in a just a few seconds with the 4" barrel. The sight radius is great for a close range gun, and most importantly it fits my body and hands well. I'm not a real big guy, but I have a build that helps me conceal around the waist. I put 8 rounds of Federal HST in it, and the weight doesn't bother me. I kind of wish it had a bobtail, but it still fits and runs reliably. I know I preach to the choir, but practice, practice, practice.
There's no reason that an experienced shooter can't carry a quality 1911 all day every day, and be able to count on it when it matters most. And I'm talking about a quality, out of the box gun, without 3 mailing offs and 2gs of gunsmithing. I might not choose Kimber myself, but I won't apologize to the polymer crowd for sticking with a classic that still works great for me. Best of luck
BLACK LION
03-12-13, 12:30
Springfield TRP Armory Kote is going to be my carry gun, carrying my MC Operator until I save up the pennies for the TRP.
I am trying to distinguish the difference between my "MC" Operator and the TRP other than the full length rail and the extra 200.00 on the price tag. So far the Operator is good to and has consumed various types of HP ammo with the factory Springfield mags.
I am attempting to run it with only periodic lubrication until I get a failure of some sort. I really want to see how much cleaning this thing needs.
p22shooter30
03-12-13, 13:07
i love my 1911, but it is way too heavy, big, and unsafe to carry unless it is in a traditional holster. the safety clicks off too easily and too many people have accidental discharges with 1911's. the only way i carry mine is without one in the chamber. i dont want a 45 slug in my ass.
BLACK LION
03-12-13, 14:50
i love my 1911, but it is way too heavy, big, and unsafe to carry unless it is in a traditional holster. the safety clicks off too easily and too many people have accidental discharges with 1911's. the only way i carry mine is without one in the chamber. i dont want a 45 slug in my ass.
Cocked and locked scares the shit out of me... If I put one in the pipe I will not cock the hammer.
**** the extra time t takes to cock the hammer or rack the slide, those microseconds dont mean shit compared to an ND.
Question for the two previous posters, do you carry a glock or similar gun with an empty chamber?
Cocked and locked scares the shit out of me... If I put one in the pipe I will not cock the hammer.
**** the extra time t takes to cock the hammer or rack the slide, those microseconds dont mean shit compared to an ND.
WTF cocked and locked is actually less dangerous than a safe action pistols in my opinion. Just keep your bogger picker off the bang button and your good. I think you run a greater risk of the hammer slipping while cocking or de cocking and creating a ND.
Cocked and locked is how the 1911 was designed to be carried. I personally believe that seeing the hammer back makes people edgy, esp if they are new to the 1911 platform.
I do have a Kimber Stainless II, bought it in 2008. It has been great but I can't recommend a Kimber Series II because of their spotty QC out of the box. For an $8-900 1911 I'd say go get a Springfield Loaded or one of the Sig 1911s.
Cocked and locked is how the 1911 was designed to be carried. I personally believe that seeing the hammer back makes people edgy, esp if they are new to the 1911 platform.
I do have a Kimber Stainless II, bought it in 2008. It has been great but I can't recommend a Kimber Series II because of their spotty QC out of the box. For an $8-900 1911 I'd say go get a Springfield Loaded or one of the Sig 1911s.
Your right condition one cocked and locked dose make the unknowing and uniformed edgy. If I had $10.00 for every time I was told my hammer is cocked, I'd be a lot closer to retirement.
p22shooter30
03-13-13, 10:23
i understand that is how it is supposed to be carried. my 1911 has a light trigger pull with not a lot of travel which means it would not take a lot for something to set it off. i have also felt/heard my safety click off when carrying it several times when making certain movements when i use an IWB holster. add the additional weight to it and it makes it not an ideal choice to carry unless in a traditional holster like LEO wear. as far as EDC, my ruger LCR is light, easy to conceal, i feel it is safer that the 1911 even though it has no safety except an extremely long trigger pull, but my pocket holster completly covers the trigger.
google 1911 accidental discharges and there are plenty of stories.
p22shooter30
03-13-13, 10:26
dont get me wrong, i love my 1911. it was my first pistol and i shoot it all the time. I think if you start carrying one, after a couple months you will start looking for a S&W shield or glock 26/19.
p22shooter30
03-13-13, 10:32
Question for the two previous posters, do you carry a glock or similar gun with an empty chamber?
No, i feel safer with one of those, even though i witnessed a security guard shoot his buddy in the hand while they were working a gun show with a glock (at least that is the gun the newspaper mentioned) while he was trying to sit in a folding chair and the gun went off somehow, the bullet bounced off of the floor and up into his buddies hand sitting next to him.
maybe the safety on my 1911 needs to be replaced, but it doesnt take much pressure to flip it off.
BLACK LION
03-13-13, 12:33
WTF cocked and locked is actually less dangerous than a safe action pistols in my opinion. Just keep your bogger picker off the bang button and your good. I think you run a greater risk of the hammer slipping while cocking or de cocking and creating a ND.
Right.
Magic_Salad0892
03-15-13, 21:01
Anybody who says that 1911s are unsafe to carry are just plain wrong. A holster will cover the trigger even if the safety clicks off.
Actually, not that I'd encourage it, but Jeff Cooper once said that he didn't particularly mind hammer cocked, safety off, one in the chamber, carry with a 1911. Though I generally disagree with everything that man ever said. He shot a 1911 a lot more than I do.
Anybody who says that 1911s are unsafe to carry are just plain wrong. A holster will cover the trigger even if the safety clicks off.
Actually, not that I'd encourage it, but Jeff Cooper once said that he didn't particularly mind hammer cocked, safety off, one in the chamber, carry with a 1911. Though I generally disagree with everything that man ever said. He shot a 1911 a lot more than I do.
I asked him if he thought it was ok to carry cocked and unlocked, and he said it was ok with him.
I don't see how any gun person can disagree with Jeff Cooper on all that much. His writings seemed generally spot-on to me, and I am not a 1911 person.
I would pick a 1911 over anything for concealed carry, different story for open. The only thing I don't like is mag capacity but I am just more comfortable with a 1911 than any other pistol I have shot. I plan to ccw a Springer Lightweight Champion Operator w/ either a TGL The Answer holster or a MTAC and 2 extra mags.
The Dumb Gun Collector
03-15-13, 23:12
The 1911 will be
1. Safer to carry
2. Easier to shoot well
3. More ergonomic
4. Probably easier to conceal, and more comfortable to carry, especially if you get something with an officer's grip.
The Glock will be
1. WAY more trustworthy. At least until they screwed them up with the Gen 4s.
2. A few more bullets (meh).
3. Less likely to drive you insane doodling with it.
Please. I would bet that if you picked 100 new Gen-4 Glock 17s at random, and 100 new 1911s at random, and shot 10,000 rounds from each, the Glocks would be about (literally) 50 times more reliable.
The Dumb Gun Collector
03-15-13, 23:53
I agree. I am just saying in 2008 you could pull a G17 out of the box and have nearly zero chance of reliability issues. 1911s have always been crappy. :D
Magic_Salad0892
03-16-13, 01:48
I asked him if he thought it was ok to carry cocked and unlocked, and he said it was ok with him.
I don't see how any gun person can disagree with Jeff Cooper on all that much. His writings seemed generally spot-on to me, and I am not a 1911 person.
I'm mainly referring to everything he said regarding Glocks, or calibers. And other subjects that I don't feel like tracking down and writing shit about. Partially because it'd derail the thread.
Greg, why do you think 1911s are safer? Because of the safety or because of the hammer?
google 1911 accidental discharges and there are plenty of stories.
Google glock leg.
Socom Elite
03-16-13, 14:38
Greg, why do you think 1911s are safer? Because of the safety or because of the hammer?
I think they are safer to train with. A lot of ND's happen furring holstering. Some material from your shirt or jacket can get caught in the trigger guard. A non issue with a 1911 with the safety on.
Also a 1911's safety locks the slide in battery so you don't have to worry about that either.
Magic_Salad0892
03-17-13, 00:08
I think they are safer to train with. A lot of ND's happen furring holstering. Some material from your shirt or jacket can get caught in the trigger guard. A non issue with a 1911 with the safety on.
Also a 1911's safety locks the slide in battery so you don't have to worry about that either.
I can partially agree with that. 1911s will be safer in that regard, but that doesn't make a Glock dangerous.
The more I shoot anything else, the more I like my 1911s. While I occasionally carry something else, I always come back to a 1911. Nothing else comes close.
David Thomas
03-17-13, 08:32
...but that doesn't make a Glock dangerous.
Well if I am going to carry a gun, I want it to be dangerous.
This kind of goes without saying but whatever you carry, make sure you are very comfortable with the gun AND holster you choose, (a lot of draws, dry and live) and like most people reccomend, I would put at least 500-1k rnds through it before you trust it to carry.
Far to many people end up at the range training with OWB's and dropleg Safariland's when they carry IWB every day. That being said, weather and attire dictate what I carry, but most of the time its a 5' Les Baer custom carry in a MS SS. I'm 5-7 150lb and dont walk aroung wearing cargo vest cover garments so it can be done.
Whatever I carry, it's ALWAYS in the same place.
I've been trying polymers for about 8 years now and I like them enough to carry and shoot a few hundred rounds a year with each of them but not enough to dissuade me from the 1911 platform. It's all about what I'm comfortable with carrying and shooting. I can draw fast enough with the 1911. I can shoot at 30 ft and closer with relative accuracy with a 1911(B27's 9's). I can comfortably carry a 1911 all day with concealment. I shoot the 1911 more accurate than I can any other polymers from G19,G26,G27,G23,G30,G21,and even the M&P Shield 9mm. Reliability with 1911's is a big factor in going to polymer pistols in the first place. Round count is also a big issue for some. They are not a big factor for me. I do know that after carrying for the past 23 years, I have MY confidence in the 1911.
I carry a full size 1911, Colt Combat Elite. Key to carrying a full size comfortably and securely is a good holster and belt. I use the Milt Sparks VMII. I also have one for my CCO.
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