View Full Version : XD Love . . .
Peaceful John
02-08-13, 16:25
The folks who have them love 'em, as you would expect. But if they're such splendid pistols, why do so few agencies issue XD's to their officers?
DanjojoUSMC
02-08-13, 16:32
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=70089&page=5
This old thread has a good talk on it. I don't think they are shit or wonderful, either one.
I know that when we were looking to replace our service pistols, my department steered away from them primarily over concerns about country of origin and the availability of parts/support.
Most of the ROs liked the pistol, but back then there were legitimate concerns regarding support, so they ended up rejecting them. We ended up switching to M&Ps.
Crow Hunter
02-08-13, 17:49
The grip safety must be depressed to cycle the slide.
I have personally witnessed a sand grain both prevent the gun from firing and from making a gun safe because the grip safety could not be depressed fully.
Not something I would want in a defensive gun.
This is on top of anecdotal evidence of durability issues in LEO testing and witnessing cycling failures during a training class.
Peaceful John
02-08-13, 18:44
Thanks, Danjojo. That reference was exactly what was needed.
XD's and XDM's are nothing like the M&P's the XD and XDM's are accurate pistols unlike the M&P's.....
The folks who have them love 'em, as you would expect. But if they're such splendid pistols, why do so few agencies issue XD's to their officers?
When I was just getting into carrying, I bought and carried a XD-9SC for about a year.
It was accurate, kinda heavy, and reliable for awhile, then started having light strikes. Thought I might have gummed up the firing pin channel, but the problem persisted after cleaning it and talking to Springfield C/S (who were great by the way).
Sent it to them and they fixed it, but never indicated what was wrong.
Sold it and move to HK. Haven't lost any sleep over it.
In general if someone asks me about XDs, I tell them my experience and say that overall I'd try an M&P or Glock instead. More parts, more options, etc over an XD, and superior track record.
JMO, YMMV...
anachronism
02-09-13, 20:28
I just sold off two XDs. A 9mm Sub, and a 9mm Tactical. Between the grip safety issue, and the roll pin holding the firing pin, I decided to focus my efforts elsewhere. I'm experimenting with a PX9 Beretta right now for a house gun. I'm still undecided about which direction to go for CCW. Right now, it's a J frame.
I know that when we were looking to replace our service pistols, my department steered away from them primarily over concerns about country of origin and the availability of parts/support.
Most of the ROs liked the pistol, but back then there were legitimate concerns regarding support, so they ended up rejecting them. We ended up switching to M&Ps.
My old agency's SWAT tried them out when they were looking for a new pistol. They were not chosen, in part, due to the lack of parts availability and because nearly everything required the gun to be sent back to the factory. Armorers could do very little to them. I think this is one of the main reasons more agencies don't use them.
Traveshamockery
02-09-13, 23:33
My old agency's SWAT tried them out when they were looking for a new pistol. They were not chosen, in part, due to the lack of parts availability and because nearly everything required the gun to be sent back to the factory. Armorers could do very little to them. I think this is one of the main reasons more agencies don't use them.
Good info. I always suspected this was the case.
High Altitude
02-10-13, 00:14
I personally don't like the grip safety and have seen several people screw up single hand manipulations with them during training, especially non dominant. Of course this is probably not a big priority for most people. Other than that they seem OK. I haven't seen any major breakage. My experience is the pistols don't seem to run that well with just a few drops of oil like a glock will. Of the pistols that I have seen malfunction, most have ran much better after putting on a good amount of lube. I have not seen any firing pin retaining pins break, but it does happen. What I have seen happen is problems with the magazines, more than I care to see if I was going to use the pistol for carry or HD. The last thing I don't like about them, they are heavy for their size for a polymer pistol.
Not bad pistols, but I would rather have a HK/M&P/Glock/Walther PPQ if I wanted a polymer pistol.
StrikerFired
02-10-13, 09:57
Had and XDm in 9mm and sold it. Actually I regret that as it was an awesome pistol. I had night sights put on it from the factory and was a shooter. At the time I was more in to IDPA so I sold it because I couldn't shoot it in SSP. Looking back, that was a mistake...
I've had an XD-45C since early 2007 and have put thousands downrange with NO PROBLEMS. The gun is still stock. I haven't
even had to replace a single spring, nothing's broken. I trust my life on it. I should probably replace some bits on it now that I think about it... Nothing wrong with the grip safety - John Browning didn't think so.
XD's and XDM's are nothing like the M&P's the XD and XDM's are accurate pistols unlike the M&P's.....
There was one model of M&P (9mm FS) and one only that suffered any accuracy issues, and of that one model, it was hit or miss, far from 100%. I have that model, no accuracy issues so far.
Two, I'd take a robust built highly reliable gun with poor accuracy over a gun with various known drawbacks (already mentioned above and or at linked thread...) that make it a poor choice for a hard use gun any day.
Gahunter12
02-10-13, 10:49
I have 2 XDms, 1 .40s&w, and 1 .45acp. Both are used for IDPA (ESP, CDP), and have been 100% reliable the first 10,000 rnds. I'm not sure why one would have to send a XD or XDm back to the factory for repairs. I have preformed all of my gunsmithing, and mods myself.
That being said I carry a Glock 23, and shoot a Glock 22 in SSP. I like the Glock for carry due to simplicity. As for parts, I also don't understand why people say parts are hard find. I find it easier to find parts, and aftermarket parts for the XD/XDm line than Glock. There's tons of sites that offer parts.
Boost Happy
02-10-13, 11:01
owned my xd40sc since 2008, has since piped 1000's of round through my XD without one hiccup. I rarely ever clean it. The grip safety is so sensitive its literally activated with it just half pressed. If you cant operate the slide you are just flat out doing it wrong. I cant gripped the firearm in anyway one handed with out in some fashion activating the grip safety. Can anyone demonstrate with a video how one can screw this up due to grip safety?
anachronism
02-10-13, 11:09
owned my xd40sc since 2008, has since piped 1000's of round through my XD without one hiccup. I rarely ever clean it. The grip safety is so sensitive its literally activated with it just half pressed. If you cant operate the slide you are just flat out doing it wrong. I cant gripped the firearm in anyway one handed with out in some fashion activating the grip safety. Can anyone demonstrate with a video how one can screw this up due to grip safety?
That was actually my point. I have concerns about manipulating the gun when things are going wrong, not when things are going right. That said, neither gun ever bobbled at all. I just had some concerns that I couldn't overcome.
I somewhat recently sold all my XDs that Ive owned for years in favor of Glocks. Just a preference at this point. The XDs did everything they were supposed to do when I owned them. I'm digging the Glocks though so I'm happy.
So it sounds like if one were to upgrade the factory pin, and throw a grip sleeve on to permanetly depress the grip safety, the gun doesn't really have any major flaws.10,000 flawless rounds is way more than most duty guns ever dream of seeing. As far as the M&P accuracy being blown off, it really is a major deal breaker. Its a liability that could possibly put the user in prison. What if the user needs to use his M&P at 25 yrds, which leads to a miss and strikes a bystander? The striker pin breaking on an XD is a bigger deal than that?
LightningFast
02-10-13, 11:44
So it sounds like if one were to upgrade the factory pin, and throw a grip sleeve on to permanetly depress the grip safety, the gun doesn't really have any major flaws.10,000 flawless rounds is way more than most duty guns ever dream of seeing. As far as the M&P accuracy being blown off, it really is a major deal breaker. Its a liability that could possibly put the user in prison. What if the user needs to use his M&P at 25 yrds, which leads to a miss and strikes a bystander? The striker pin breaking on an XD is a bigger deal than that?
For the average user, taking a shot at 25 yards with any gun could be considered a problem. At that distance, many people will have to explain why they took the shot instead of fleeing.
Am I the only person who has a problem with the long trigger reset on the XD?
I'm not a fan of unecessary grip safeties either, but the trigger reset was the real deal killer for me.
Gahunter12
02-10-13, 15:45
Am I the only person who has a problem with the long trigger reset on the XD?
I'm not a fan of unecessary grip safeties either, but the trigger reset was the real deal killer for me.
I don't like the longer trigger reset either, but I fill that the trigger is smoother than the Glock trigger. Honestly I can't stand the factory triggers of Glocks, and XDs. I have replaced the all of my XDm triggers with PRP Ultimate Drop in triggers, and my Glocks all have Glock Trigger.com triggers in them. My PRP trigger in the XDm40 has comp springs with a 3.7lb pull, and minimum reset. My XDm45 has a PRP trigger with the combat springs for a smooth 5lb pull, and same short reset.
My Glock 22 has the Vogel trigger, and my Glock23 has the Haley Trigger from glock triggers. Both give my Glocks smooth pulls, and short resets.
High Altitude
02-10-13, 16:34
Am I the only person who has a problem with the long trigger reset on the XD?
I'm not a fan of unecessary grip safeties either, but the trigger reset was the real deal killer for me.
Same here. I don't like any pistol that has a long reset, especially with a bunch of take up until you hit the wall again. I like short reset, and when the trigger resets I like to be right up against the wall.
My Sig 229 had a SA trigger with a long reset, lots of slop and I did not like it. I swapped in the SRT which made it much better.
Boost Happy
02-10-13, 16:55
For the average user, taking a shot at 25 yards with any gun could be considered a problem. At that distance, many people will have to explain why they took the shot instead of fleeing.
In Virginia you are not obligated to flee. We have stand your ground. You can take on a threat with force, whether it be 5 ft away, or a guy way a Hi-point at you on your porch from across the street
For the average user, taking a shot at 25 yards with any gun could be considered a problem. At that distance, many people will have to explain why they took the shot instead of fleeing.
While I agree, there are still circumstances which it would be justified. My main point is that people harp on the XDm and overlook or minimize flaws with other platforms. They will go to great lengths to create perfection on another platform, but if the XD needs a couple of tweaks its just too much to ask.Also, everyone blabs about the XD not being accepted in LEO realms. Big deal, when HK doesn't win and Glock does it's only because of price, but when the XD doesn't get selected it's because it's inferior. Why the double standard? M&P's are far from perfect, Mr. Vickers even said that S&W screwed that gun up, but people happily toute them as being great, and worthy of dumping money into to work right. Same for Glock. I just don't understand it.
Boost Happy
02-10-13, 17:28
While I agree, there are still circumstances which it would be justified. My main point is that people harp on the XDm and overlook or minimize flaws with other platforms. They will go to great lengths to create perfection on another platform, but if the XD needs a couple of tweaks its just too much to ask.Also, everyone blabs about the XD not being accepted in LEO realms. Big deal, when HK doesn't win and Glock does it's only because of price, but when the XD doesn't get selected it's because it's inferior. Why the double standard? M&P's are far from perfect, Mr. Vickers even said that S&W screwed that gun up, but people happily toute them as being great, and worthy of dumping money into to work right. Same for Glock. I just don't understand it.
Its called being a gun snob. Which from what I have seen so far, the site is loaded with them. If its not made by Colt, BCM, Noveske, H&K or Glock its an inferior knock off
I still don't see how a grip safety is a flaw. Also, if you have proper trigger control, long reset shouldn't be a problem. I find the XD's trigger infinitely superior to the M&P and Glock. I was raised on 1911s and I still don't have a problem with the XD's trigger. As long as your trigger pull is smooth and consistent, it does its job just fine.
While I agree, there are still circumstances which it would be justified. My main point is that people harp on the XDm and overlook or minimize flaws with other platforms. They will go to great lengths to create perfection on another platform, but if the XD needs a couple of tweaks its just too much to ask.Also, everyone blabs about the XD not being accepted in LEO realms. Big deal, when HK doesn't win and Glock does it's only because of price, but when the XD doesn't get selected it's because it's inferior. Why the double standard? M&P's are far from perfect, Mr. Vickers even said that S&W screwed that gun up, but people happily toute them as being great, and worthy of dumping money into to work right. Same for Glock. I just don't understand it.
Outside of the original purchase price and some extra mags I have not spent a penny on any of my Glocks. They are all box stock. They all run perfectly, as designed.
Now I'm not going to jump up and down defending the Glock trigger. I've never been in love with it, but it works, the reset is good, and it is consistent from one gun to another. Nothing beats the 1911 trigger. Still, I don't consider the Glock trigger a "flaw". I haven't had to overlook anything or go to any lengths at all to create perfection. I just bought them and took them to the range and shot them.
Outside of the original purchase price and some extra mags I have not spent a penny on any of my Glocks. They are all box stock. They all run perfectly, as designed.
Now I'm not going to jump up and down defending the Glock trigger. I've never been in love with it, but it works, the reset is good, and it is consistent from one gun to another. Nothing beats the 1911 trigger. Still, I don't consider the Glock trigger a "flaw". I haven't had to overlook anything or go to any lengths at all tocreate perfection. I just bought them and took them to the range and shot them.
A great number of people don't have to touch Glocks and they work great, as do alot of users of XD's. Others have to remove the hump,change recoil springs, replace the extractor (APEX replacement), change connectors, remove the plastic sights, etc. M&P's supposedly need a possible new barrel, $100 worth of trigger parts, RAM, sear spring replaced (older models), etc.They see these things as undesirable, but not a deal breaker.They are willing to wait untold amounts of time for certain companies to"make it right" all the while bad mouthing guns that run out of the box.I can't imagine what would be said if the XD's needed a new barrel, extractor, $100 DCAEK, RAM, came with plastic sights,plastic guide rod,bent dust cover, and had a trigger safety that put a callous on most peoples trigger finger.
Crow Hunter
02-10-13, 19:12
I still don't see how a grip safety is a flaw. Also, if you have proper trigger control, long reset shouldn't be a problem. I find the XD's trigger infinitely superior to the M&P and Glock. I was raised on 1911s and I still don't have a problem with the XD's trigger. As long as your trigger pull is smooth and consistent, it does its job just fine.
My brother had a XD40. He went riding ATVs with an open top holster. When he got back to my Mom's house, he wanted to go shooting. He went up to the line to shoot and he couldn't get his weapon to fire. Then he dropped the magazine and tried to make it safe to see what was wrong. He couldn't get the slide to come back.
To make a long story short, we found out that there was a grain of sand that had gotten between the top of the grip safety and the frame. It wouldn't allow it to depress. So he couldn't get the gun to fire or get the live round out of the chamber. Eventually, we managed to wash the mud out of the grip safety and allow the slide to cycle.
He took it the next day and traded it.
After seeing this, I wouldn't want a gun with a grip safety that locked the slide.
We had this debate a couple months ago around here. Read my reply as to what happens when I dumped sand in 5 different pistols.
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-117270.html
Its called being a gun snob. Which from what I have seen so far, the site is loaded with them. If its not made by Colt, BCM, Noveske, H&K or Glock its an inferior knock off
Sounds like you might be happier somewhere else, then. The XD is not popular here for valid reasons. Having to depress a grip safety to actuate the slide makes one handed manipulation unnecessarily difficult and that's enough for some. Me included. Parts breakages under moderate to hard use have affected the XD across all makes and calibers since the gun was brought to market in America. This forum is populated with (and moderated by) a more discerning crowd. Do a search on this board and you'll find plenty of commentary by respected industry professionals and experts whose credentials are impeccable on this subject. For my part, if the gun works for you, I could care less what you carry. Your safety and the reliability of your equipment is your business. I had an XD for a while. My teenage daughter leaned to shoot with it because she liked the feel of the grip. She's moved on to the M&P now. Her XD had one concerning issue for me. It would sometimes not go fully into battery on a full magazine and required a bump on the back of the slide to fully seat. She moved on, I sold it, problem solved.
I've been very happy with my XDm-45, for the most part. It's minute-of-scuba tank at 100 yards, which makes an awesome sound when hit. I had the PRP trigger done, and an FO front sight put on, and it's fun to shoot. I have had problems with the mags when they get dirty, and I got oil in the stiker channel when I wasn't paying attention. I don't like the mags, don't mind the grip safety ( I think bar-sto makes a metal one that takes out the gap around the GS), love the ambi-mag release, but I'm still thinking about getting rid of it. It shoots very well, and I much prefer it to a Glock, but I'm not in love with it. I've met a few instructors who carry XDs, but they're personal weapons; most everybody carries Glocks because that's what they're issued. My father-in-law's agency switched from M9s to M&P last year, and he said the whole department hates them for various reasons.
The only malfs we've had in my class at the academy have been with Glocks and an M&P. About half the class is shooting Glock, 1/3 XD or XDm, the one guy with an M&P sold it because it was having a lot of problems and the instructors agreed. We also have one HK45, a PPQ, a Sig, and some doofus (me) with a 1911. I really like the PPQ, and if it wasn't for the crappy mag availability I'd try to pick one up right now. The guy running one in my class had to pay $150 for his third 15-rd mag. Every platform has benefits and drawbacks, just find one that works for you and go for it. It seems like most folks switch platforms a few times before settling on one anyway.
DanjojoUSMC
02-11-13, 01:10
Ehhh...I would be very surprised if thorough research showed the XD line has had problems as varied or common as the M&P line. Even being twice as old. Who it is that accepts or pushes a certain model of gear can be more important than why.
Word of mouth among all the "Bubba" types would have affected sales strongly if the XD line was as bad as some people think.
There was one model of M&P (9mm FS) and one only that suffered any accuracy issues, and of that one model, it was hit or miss, far from 100%. I have that model, no accuracy issues so far.
Two, I'd take a robust built highly reliable gun with poor accuracy over a gun with various known drawbacks (already mentioned above and or at linked thread...) that make it a poor choice for a hard use gun any day.
I have 1000's of rounds with no problems with my xdm's.
I had 2 M&P's a 9 that sucked past 15 yards and a 45 that had FTF problems from the first day I got it.
I guess I am not smart like you and other's who put in replacement barrels in M&P's because of accuracy problems and APEX M&P Duty/Carry Action Enhancement Kit and spend all kind of extra money on a gun that has major flees.
I own HK's and semi Custom 1911's but I carry a XDM 45 because I am very accurate with it and have not had any problems with it.
I liked the M&P 45 but did not trust it for carry because of all the problems I had with it.
This is at 25 yards indoors stock trigger and stock sights
Hand Held under 1 1/2" I can put them in the black all day long with a stock XDM 45.
Ammo Nosler 185 grain JHP 4.5 bullseye powder.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s1/cjstinks/100_3039-1.jpg
I owned an XD at one point and it was terrible. I replaced it with a Glock, which was replaced by an M&P.
The fact that the XD has a negligible presence among state and federal agencies after so many years of availability and strong marketing should make one wonder.
In contrast, the M&P has been on the scene a shorter period of time and has taken the market by storm. It's regarded on a casual and professional level as a Glock competitor, which puts the M&P among the best in this industry.
Beyond that, the XD triggers are horrible, it's blocky and tall, and the grip safety is a point of concern in adverse conditions.
I've had an XD-45C since early 2007 and have put thousands downrange with NO PROBLEMS. The gun is still stock. I haven't
even had to replace a single spring, nothing's broken. I trust my life on it. I should probably replace some bits on it now that I think about it... Nothing wrong with the grip safety - John Browning didn't think so.
??? seriously....... :suicide:
uhhhhh,,, yes he did, that's why he never used it again on any other design.
XDM's are overpriced trash. Look up all the problems they have but yet Springfield says they are meant to compete with HK, Sig, etc. HA! The normal XD line offers great value. I used to have a XD9SC and it was extremely accurate, lightweight, minimal recoil, and reliable. I ended up trading it... anyways, an XD is a good gun for under $400 or so but don't pay anything more and absolutely do not even think about the piece of trash that they call an XDM. It's true. XD's are more reliable than the XDM and significantly cheaper also.
??? seriously....... :suicide:
uhhhhh,,, yes he did, that's why he never used it again on any other design.
Good point... But I still feel safer keeping it cocked and locked with the cats around... :D
GUNSLINGER733
02-11-13, 10:49
XD's and XDM's are nothing like the M&P's the XD and XDM's are accurate pistols unlike the M&P's.....
Mine is very accurate and it is a 9mm. That is the only one that has had problems. Mine had been great and ive made 100+ yard freehand shots.
I've been very happy with my XDm-45, for the most part. It's minute-of-scuba tank at 100 yards, which makes an awesome sound when hit.
I'm not trying to be the thread hall monitor, but I don't think it's very safe to shoot round metal objects.
Other than that, I really don't understand the point of this thread. If you think Xds are great and you don't care what the haters think, then rock on. People here have pointed out specific design issues and reasons that there are better choices. Ignore that if you want. No one really gives a shit what you choose to carry.
I owned an XD at one point and it was terrible. I replaced it with a Glock, which was replaced by an M&P.
The fact that the XD has a negligible presence among state and federal agencies after so many years of availability and strong marketing should make one wonder.
In contrast, the M&P has been on the scene a shorter period of time and has taken the market by storm. It's regarded on a casual and professional level as a Glock competitor, which puts the M&P among the best in this industry.
Beyond that, the XD triggers are horrible, it's blocky and tall, and the grip safety is a point of concern in adverse conditions.
What state and federal agencies issue is not what I would base gun purchases on, unless they are gun centric organizations such as the FAMS or USSS, or LE units such as FBI HRT.
The M&P is gaining ground in LE because S&W has been very agressive in marketing them to agencies, just like Glock did many years ago. Plus, they're cheap. S&W is now beating Glock at their own game. For example, a large state agency switched from H&K's to M&P's because S&W gave them, guns, holsters, magazines, mag holders, and armorers training, for free in exchange for the HK's. What bean counter would turn down that offer when they are struggling just to keep guys on the road? It's NOT because the M&P's are better weapons than the HK's. In fact, they have had more problems with the M&P's in the first year or two than they ever did with the HK's.
As for the XD. From what I understand, Springfield hasn't been aggressive in marketing the XD to LE, and lacks armorer support/training for the pistol. Years ago, I did get to T&E a couple of the XD .45's to see if they would be approved for duty use. I thought that they were OK for the short amount of time that I had with them on the range. No malfunctions or anything funky. I did not like the grip safety, and thought it was pointless. The thing that really bothered me was that you can't manipulate the slide unless it's depressed. On my eval form, I did not recommend it for duty use because of that. It was approved anyways, as someone above my paygrade thought that it didn't matter.
With all that being said, I have heard or seen of any major problems reliability wise with the XD from guys that are carrying them. I can't say that about some of the other plastic wonders that are pimped so hard these days. Personally, I place the XD at the bottom of my list of "what I would carry for duty," along with the M&P.
Here's a little snip of what a SME on this forum had to say about this subject not too long ago.
I never understood why we judge a guns worth by how many LE agencies adopt it. We roast them mercilessly for picking Bushmasters, Oly Arms, Rock River, or Armalite rifles with Eotechs instead of Colt or BCM ( not that I don't agree) with Aimpoints....but turn and trust their judgement on pistols...
I see a lot of students fire a lot of rounds and I have seen more XDs than M&Ps in the last year. I have not had a SINGLE guy have a SINGLE problem with an XD. Infer what you will by my lack of the same statement for the M&P. I don't like shooting the XD much myself but I'll definitely take that experience over a bunch of "no agencies field them" posts on the Internet. I don't want a grip safety. I don't care for the bore axis personally. I like the way the new fancy Rob Leatham XD 5.whatever shoots a lot thought, and know a lot of guys who shoot the crap out of them (20+K annually) and love them.
Ok lets all take a step back from the ABC vs. XYZ... pistol argument and take off our emotional hats and put on our critical thinking hats. I have both a Glock and a XD so I am trying my hardest to no be biased on this topic. There are several reasons the arguments on this thread are moot.
1) Agencies don't use them so they suck.
The folks who have them love 'em, as you would expect. But if they're such splendid pistols, why do so few agencies issue XD's to their officers?
As we all know there are several factors when agencies make decision on large purchases such as politics, budget, mission needs and logistics, don't forget normally it goes to the lowest bidder. If we were to extend the "so few agencies use it so it must be crap" logic out, we should all get M9 and 1911 cause the vast majority of DOD uses it.
My old agency's SWAT tried them out when they were looking for a new pistol. They were not chosen, in part, due to the lack of parts availability and because nearly everything required the gun to be sent back to the factory. Armorers could do very little to them. I think this is one of the main reasons more agencies don't use them.
This is not intended as an attack on your agency's Armorers but wouldn't this be fixed by more education on the weapon system?
2) Personal experiences
I've had an XD-45C since early 2007 and have put thousands downrange with NO PROBLEMS. The gun is still stock. I haven't even had to replace a single spring, nothing's broken. I trust my life on it. I should probably replace some bits on it now that I think about it... Nothing wrong with the grip safety - John Browning didn't think so.
...Here is the sequence of what happened. Gun is empty. Full magazine inserted into gun. Rack the slide. Trigger is locked forward. Pull the trigger, and click. It was very clear that the trigger bar was not engaged with the firing pin. Somehow when the slide was going into battery, the firing pin gets pass the trigger bar. Rack the slide, and a round pops out, and the next trigger pull, the gun goes bang. Happened one other time, and only when loading an empty gun.
The above quote was concerning a Glock 17 Gen3
Hi,I have an M&P 40 pro 5" that's about 2 years old. Recently I sent it back to S&W because it had some accuracy issues. Anyway, S&W replaced the barrel and the accuracy is much better. Unfortunately, there is a new problem now. About once every hundred rounds, the pistol jams. This is with several different types of factory ammunition (Federal HST 180gr, Blazer Brass 180gr FMJ, Federal 180gr FMJ, etc) and several different magazines. I have put about 500 rounds down the new barrel now and have had about half a dozen jams.
What's happening is that a round will come partially out of the magazine and get hung up at the bottom of the feed ramp, pinning the slide open. A tap/rack clears the jam and feeds the stuck round but it's still annoying.
Obviously these 3 experiences can be used to make the argument that XDs are superior to Glock and M&P, but each of these stories are ONE persons experiences. Personal experience holds little weight in a scientific argument. Most of the time personal experience leaves out large amounts of information like maintenance records, round count, weather and environment are just a few of the possible contributing factors. Of course these experiences can steer someone's personal decisions.
3) More on Personal experiences
My brother had a XD40. ...To make a long story short, we found out that there was a grain of sand that had gotten between the top of the grip safety and the frame. It wouldn't allow it to depress. So he couldn't get the gun to fire or get the live round out of the chamber. Eventually, we managed to wash the mud out of the grip safety and allow the slide to cycle.
After seeing this, I wouldn't want a gun with a grip safety that locked the slide.
vs.
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/ind.../t-117270.html
It seems for every negative experience you can find someone else with the exact opposite experience. Additionally, you can find little flaws in every firearm. The above experience could have easily been a "grain of sand" entering the action of a Glock through the opening at the bottom of the grip. Even LAV has voiced his concern with that area.
4) Personal Opinion
I owned an XD at one point and it was terrible. I replaced it with a Glock, which was replaced by an M&P.
Had and XDm in 9mm and sold it. Actually I regret that as it was an awesome pistol.
All I can say is options are like butt holes everyone has one and none likes how everyone else smells. Opinions only hold as much weight as the qualification and experiences of the individual providing them.
5) Track Record – All these firearms have issues.
XD – Retaining pin that holds the firing pin
Glock – Gen 4 Extractor
M&P - Bad accuracy due to barrels.
I'm sure the list can go on. Can Any of these issues really be quantified? No, and most of them are cheap and easy to fix. This is a moot point, They all have issues. But don't turn a blind eye based on personal bias.
6)SME - I completely respect the opinion and knowledge of the SMEs and many of the Industry Professionals of this forum, but their endorsement of XYZ brand and lack of opinion on ABC brand does not equate to ABC is inferior to XYZ.
7) Final thoughts - I enjoy this Forum for its well informed threads and clear judgement, but after reading some of theses ABC vs. XYZ it seems some people are jumping on the tacticool name brand band wagon.
For me, I recently purchased a Glock 26 Gen 4 I still need to upgrade the ejector. I made my decision to buy a Glock, over other brands, based on LAV's torcher test. After seeing the results I decided that Glock was extremely durable and reliable but not necessary superior. Superiority could not be determined until other brands go through the same test.
Good post... for those of you who've never read it:
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/general-sa-xd-xd-m-talk/184369-xd-torture-test.html
This thread alone makes me wanna buy an XDm and shoot the shit out of it!:lol:
The grip safety must be depressed to cycle the slide.
I have personally witnessed a sand grain both prevent the gun from firing and from making a gun safe because the grip safety could not be depressed fully.
Not something I would want in a defensive gun.
This is on top of anecdotal evidence of durability issues in LEO testing and witnessing cycling failures during a training class.
I had an XD45c that I liked, but I had this very thing happen to me. I was in the desert and somehow when transitioning from prone with the rifle to kneeling with the XD, sand prevented the safety from engaging and it would not operate. That was enough for me and it has been long gone.
Here's a little snip of what a SME on this forum had to say about this subject not too long ago.
I don't care what anyone has to say on this subject because no opinion is going to outweigh my personal experience which was gained with my time on my dime.
I've had many firearms in my life. Of all the handguns, the XD was the worst.
skywalkrNCSU
03-10-13, 18:34
Anyone thought of just putting some grip tape on the gun and taping the grip safety down? I like my XDm but don't really care for the grip safety and that seems like a way to eliminate it from the equation. I don't use it for a defense weapon though so I don't really care at the end of the day.
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