View Full Version : Buying a Mosin 91/30 -- What should I know?
Already placed an order from Bud's and expect it to be delivered in a couple of weeks. I know it's better to buy one locally so I can inspect but Bud's claims this batch is their "best ever" and Mosin's (believe it or not) are sold out nearly everywhere now so I couldn't get one locally even if I wanted to.
Anything I need to know, in particular?
I'll likely be replacing the wood stock with the synthetic and I'm considering having a curved bolt job done but would like to hear from people who have experience with this. I do not plan to try and make it a "tactical Mosin" like some of these clowns -- moreso I just want to be able to mount a scope on it. Not sure if it could effect reliability or anything to get a curved bolt job. Also, my skills aside, what is your opinion on the maximum effective range of a basic Mosin 91/30 with irons or mid-grade scope? I'm looking to use it as a deer rifle this coming season and for general long distance shooting (within reason).
The Dumb Gun Collector
02-11-13, 11:01
Odds are the bolt will be sticky. That is my major beef with the Nagant. Every one I ever fooled with had a sticky bolt that sometimes had to be smashed against a wooden post to open.
I would slug the barrel to see what you are working with. Hopefully it is close to .311 which is realistic
Don't worry about the rifle being counter bored. My Mosin will hit 4 foot plates at 300 yards (standing with a sling no less) with surplus ammo and has worst bore ever. The key is getting the sling tension and focusing. The recoil is a bitch so it will get you flinching if you are tired. The trigger is a like a really shitty DAO. But shoot a really crappy DAO a few thousand times and it's like riding a bike. The sight picture is like an AK. The range markings are on the dot, however, keep the front sight low in the groove when lining up, hold on target....that is how mine shoots anyway. Oh and bring a hammer for wind-age. I wish I was kidding. It's an art.
I shit you not, my buddy and were hitting a full size IPSC steel target at 500 yards about every two or three shots for about 15 rounds. After that my rifle couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I think the barrel took a dump, I know my shoulder did.
I have read that they are sighted in with the bayonet mounted so that could make a difference. I have also tried using different shims and bedding etc. There are many different thing you can do to "accurize". My friends shot better than mine and 200 yards seemed to be point of consistency.
There is a great amount of info on these rifles and they are a load of fun to screw around with. Good luck!
I shit you not, my buddy and were hitting a full size IPSC steel target at 500 yards about every two or three shots for about 15 rounds. After that my rifle couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I think the barrel took a dump, I know my shoulder did.
I have read that they are sighted in with the bayonet mounted so that could make a difference. I have also tried using different shims and bedding etc. There are many different thing you can do to "accurize". My friends shot better than mine and 200 yards seemed to be point of consistency.
There is a great amount of info on these rifles and they are a load of fun to screw around with. Good luck!
I doubt the barrel took a dump unless you are getting those results on several occasions.
The recoil of the rifle bundled up with the shitty trigger, non aperture sights and metal butt plate make it an easy rifle to have a bad day with. If you get tired it can seem like it took a dump. Flinch is the most likely culprit. Also, they heat up faster than any other rifle I have owned. POI shift is likely to blame after many rounds.
The bayonet thing applies to the carbines with the folding bayonet. The POI will be off unless the bayonet is extended. Not so with the 91/30.
Cool, thanks for the info. Damn things are fun as hell. To think of the history behind them makes me shake my head.
OP, good luck!
Thanks for the information and advice, guys.
It seems like I will need to consider putting the extended rubber buttpad on the stock when I receive my Mosin. Does anybody run these on the ATI synthetic stock or are these for the original stocks only?
Also, what is it that makes the Mosin Nagant kick so badly? I understand the 7.62x54R is a potent round somewheres between the .308 and 30-06 but even those cartridges are not that difficult to shoot accurately so what's the deal? Everybody makes Mosin's (even the 91/30) out to be inaccurate fireball shooting cannons that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Hope it's not completely true as it will be my primary bolt gun, given that it's in good shape.
Wartime production M91/30's (especially 1942 and 1943) look like the receivers were machined with a chisel, although they're still perfectly serviceable.
Some folks prefer the Tula examples over the Izhevsk ones, because the star logo looks cooler and there were somewhat fewer made. They all shoot the same, though. Same with hex receivers over round ones.
Are you buying the 91/30 as a collectible or as a shooter?
If collectible, then clean it, don't change anything, and shoot it.
If shooter, then clean it, don't change anything, and shoot it.
The plastic stocks and aftermarket stuff for Mosins don't make them any better than they were before.
The first thing you should do is familiarize yourself with the lineup and know what you're looking at when you go to buy it.
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinID.htm
majorleaguekennels
02-12-13, 09:10
shoot it at night! no flash hider on those things. I can not remember the name of the company that makes it, but instead of bending the bolt handle there is a kit you can buy and you just cut the old handle off, drill and tap the bolt at the base of the cut off handle and they have a bolt on handle. I did this to a mosin i use to have. Its really simple to do, and IMO looks better then the bent handles.
brickboy240
02-12-13, 10:26
Skip the Mosin and buy a 98 Mauser variant.
You can still find Czech VZ-24s in the 200 dollar range.
The 98 Mauser is just a better action all the way around...especially for a custom rifle.
-brickboy240
Both of my 91/30 rifles had the front sight drifted over making them shoot right of POI.
Didn't waste time with the bayonet, I just drifted the sights over.
I recommend slugging the barrel. I had one that slugged .315. I still tried to shoot it to see how bad it was... About 12" group at 50 yards.
Thanks for the information and advice, guys.
It seems like I will need to consider putting the extended rubber buttpad on the stock when I receive my Mosin. Does anybody run these on the ATI synthetic stock or are these for the original stocks only?
Also, what is it that makes the Mosin Nagant kick so badly? I understand the 7.62x54R is a potent round somewheres between the .308 and 30-06 but even those cartridges are not that difficult to shoot accurately so what's the deal? Everybody makes Mosin's (even the 91/30) out to be inaccurate fireball shooting cannons that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Hope it's not completely true as it will be my primary bolt gun, given that it's in good shape.
Small metal buttplate is the cause for the complaints on recoil. It's not too bad, I have done about 200 rounds of ball in a session with just a t shirt on...no problem. However, a thick sock on the butt helps tame the beast. The factory loads for the -06 may actually be lower energy than some of the hot surplus 54r loads out there. it varies a lot.
ForTehNguyen
02-12-13, 17:17
you can polish the camming surfaces of the mosin bolt to get rid of some of the bolt stick. Took me 20-30 min and it made a huge different in the feel. You can also polish the trigger surfaces and it will smoothen it up a bunch too. Lotta nice virtually free mods you can do to a mosin to make it feel a lot nicer. Be sure to check for the firing pin depth as well. I did both the bolt and trigger surface polishing on my Mosin PU Sniper and my regular Mosin and they feel a lot better
thegreatscotsman
02-12-13, 18:59
More than likely the rifle you receive from Bud's will be wartime built. Wartimes are easy to spot as finish machining on the receiver is poor. The rifles being imported now will be refurbed. I own several wartime rifles and the bores are in outstanding like new condition and mirror bright.
As far as things to look for, bore condition, might wanna check the muzzle crown. Sticky bolt is an easy fix that involves polshing the chamber with a 20g bore brush, checkout youtube for vids.
I personally would stick with the wood stock and a slip on buttstock pad. I don't recall who, but there is a company who makes a scope that will replace the rear sight so there's no need to mod the bolt.
I picked a Mosin carbine up at a farmers barn sale about six months ago for 80 bucks. I polished the rust off the bolt, sonic cleaned it, checked it with the firing pin gauge and took it to the range.
It kicks like a mule, and has muzzle flash unlike anything I have ever seen, but I am more then happy with the accuracy considering the rounds cost less then 15, I can find them in droves, and I spent less then a bill on the gun.
My only complaint with the gun is that it is really difficult to get the ammo into the magazine.
Are you buying the 91/30 as a collectible or as a shooter?
If collectible, then clean it, don't change anything, and shoot it.
If shooter, then clean it, don't change anything, and shoot it.
The plastic stocks and aftermarket stuff for Mosins don't make them any better than they were before.
The first thing you should do is familiarize yourself with the lineup and know what you're looking at when you go to buy it.
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinID.htm
It's going to be a straight shooter; not a collector. I'm actually leaning towards keeping the original wood furniture now, honestly. Long as the wooden stock is not splintering or in terrible shape then I'll likely keep it as is, with the exception of a scope mount and rubber pad. I don't care about the looks or making it "tacticool" - I just want it to be functional and not falling apart.
Skip the Mosin and buy a 98 Mauser variant.
You can still find Czech VZ-24s in the 200 dollar range.
The 98 Mauser is just a better action all the way around...especially for a custom rifle.
-brickboy240
I had considered this, however the main reason I am going for a Mosin is to get cheap 7.62x54R and train with a bolt gun (non 22lr) for a reasonable price.
You'll love the mosin. Totally disassemble the bolt,( unscrew the firing pin etc), and really make sure everything is super clean. Clean out the chamber real good and you shouldnt have any sticking issues. You'll probably have to drift the sight ( remember to "chase" the bullet ), and it'll probably shoot high. You can use a piece of rubber and slide it over the front sight post to increase post height or drop a bead of solder on it to increase the post height and lower POI. One trick to get all (most) of the cosmoline out of the stock is wait until a super hot day, and hang the stock inside a black contractors bag outside with a drip pan underneath. Have fun :)
A lot of surplus rifles are shipped with loose action screws. I noticed that the tightness of the action screws on my Mosin Nagants has a big affect on the height of bullet impact. Check the screws and snug them down if necessary.
In looking at one of these as well, I am really curious. Are they hard to totally disassemble? Is it hard to get the action out of the stock? I would think it a pretty cool project, to refinish the stock, and polish up the action/trigger, and make a neat blaster out of it.
Any other experiences in this direction?
The Mosin Nagant is a stone axe simple rifle. Removing the action from the stock is pretty straight forward. If you have any mechanical knowledge, disassembly of the trigger group or bolt group is not too difficult.
Straight Shooter
02-15-13, 06:58
The MN is one of my favorite surplus rifles. I just bought my 3rd one yesterday. Bore condition is everything, but I do place value on non-forced matched matching numbers and cosmetic appeal. I took some rubber gloves to my lgs and inspected 5 new arrivals that just came in . Of the 5, one was an almost perfect Tula, literally the nicest MN Ive ever seen. Bought it, took it home, and cleaned the
assload of cosmoline from the gun. we had to put it in a plastic bag at the gunshop, it had so much on it, and thats a good thing, btw.
BOILING HOT water is youre friend in this instance. Man, the crap just flowed out/off the gun. After cleanup, and a little trigger work,
this is one nice rifle, Im very anxious to get her to the range. Her name is NATASHA, and the bore looks to be almost unfired. This one, Im keeping.
Oh yeah- go to youtube for TONS of info on cleaning, breakdown, and other info. Learn to use the odd shaped tool that comes with most rifles, the firing pin gauge. Handy for bolt disassembly/assembly too.
El Pistolero
02-19-13, 16:34
An AR-15 chamber brush in a drill will also help with the sticky bolt syndrome. One of the causes is old cosmoline hardening like varnish inside the area just behind the chamber where the bolt lugs turn and lock.
The Mosin-Nagant is one of my favorite rifle, despite being clumsy they are rugged. Fred Flintstone probably carried one. I currently own 4, but have owned over a dozen and have slimmed down my collection quite a bit. I currently have two M91/59s (M91/30 that were chopped down to arm Soviet satellite states in the event of a Cold War ground war), an M91/30 that was captured by the Finnish and stamped/reworked by them (has the nicest bore I've ever seen on any M-N), and Finnish M39. The latter is the finest mil-surp I have ever fired, the Cadillac of Mosin-Nagants and even mil-surps in general. The Finn M39s are up there with Swiss K-31s and Swede M96 Mausers.
Look on the Box O' Truth for getting more accuracy out of your Mosin: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu63.htm
Also, a trigger job can be performed at home with a Dremel and a polishing attachment (NOT grinding), and some washers of the right size to go under the trigger leaf spring. Just be sure that when you lighten/smooth up the trigger, you close the bolt on the unloaded weapon and slam the butt on the ground HARD to ensure the weapon won't fire if dropped, it is essential for safety. I made some triggers a little too light and they didn't pass this test so I had to remove some spacers under the trigger spring. There are several sites where you will find these DIY trigger jobs. Remember safety is more important than having a match trigger.
Also, for a little humor: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm
One last warning, Mosins tend to multiply.
El Pistolero
02-19-13, 16:43
Oh yeah, don't forget about corrosive ammo. Everyone has their own pet method of cleaning, some even bordering on witchcraft, but in the end, just hot water down the bore and clean as normal.
El Pistolero
02-19-13, 16:44
Nevermind.
El Pistolero
02-20-13, 12:34
I have four Mosin-Nagants, two M91/59s, a Finnish-capture/reworked M91/30 (with the most perfect bore I've ever seen on any M-N), and a Finnish M39 that is a joy to shoot. I've owned over a dozen but have narrowed it down to these and am always looking for more Finn M39s. If you end up liking the Mosin-Nagant design, I highly recommend a Finnish M39 if you can find one, they are the Cadillac of Mosin, and even milsurps in general, right up there with Swiss K-31s and Swede M96s.
I recommend a simple DIY trigger job, this can be done with a Dremel with polishing (NOT grinding!) attachments, and some spacers/washers to go under the sear spring. Be sure to test the trigger by slamming the butt on the ground HARD to ensure the rifle will not go off if dropped. Safety is more important than a match trigger.
For a little humor: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm
talaananthes
02-20-13, 14:16
M39s are absolutely the way to go. Mine has been known to shoot sub-MOA at 300 yards with surplus ammo. '42 Sk.Y barrel. Beautiful, beautiful weapon. No one else ever made them like the Finns.
talaananthes
02-20-13, 14:18
As far as buying a 91/30 goes, barrel is everything. Slug it, know what size bore you're dealing with. If it's counterbored, that's fine, but get a gunsmith to look at it and if necessary plop the money down to get it recrowned, some of those are field jobs that weren't done well at all. A lot of the barrels are completely shot out, or near to it, or weren't bored to spec to begin with, so know what diameter you've got and handload for it if you can.
talaananthes
02-20-13, 14:22
For accurizining a Russian, do what the Finns did to captured Russians. Shim it with little pieces of brass, that's how they bedded theirs. Under the tang, around the front action screw, maybe a few other places depending on your rifle. There's a few posts floating around the interwebz how to do it.
I've had dozens of Mosins over the years, and have never met a sub MOA 300 yard shooter. Having a sharpshooter Mosin Nagant is not what anyone should expect right out of the box.
talaananthes
02-20-13, 14:53
Lol ever owned one with a SAKO barrel?
talaananthes
02-20-13, 14:54
Drop the cash for a good Finn that's got a barrel in good condition, and you'll get that accuracy if you do your part and take care of it.
talaananthes
02-20-13, 14:56
We rigged a temporary scope mount on my M39 (again, '42 Sk.Y barrel in excellent+ condition), best group anyone got was 2.75" 5-shot group at 300 yards using Czech Silvertip and a 12x scope. The M39 has a .310 bore, and the Silvertip uses .310 bullets and is known for being very consistent. Some of the best surplus ammo there is. My personal best that day was just under 4", but I'm not as practiced of a shot.
El Pistolero
02-20-13, 15:11
For accurizining a Russian, do what the Finns did to captured Russians. Shim it with little pieces of brass, that's how they bedded theirs. Under the tang, around the front action screw, maybe a few other places depending on your rifle. There's a few posts floating around the interwebz how to do it.
On the same note, you can also shim the stock with pieces of cork to improve accuracy: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu63.htm
We rigged a temporary scope mount on my M39 (again, '42 Sk.Y barrel in excellent+ condition), best group anyone got was 2.75" 5-shot group at 300 yards using Czech Silvertip and a 12x scope. The M39 has a .310 bore, and the Silvertip uses .310 bullets and is known for being very consistent. Some of the best surplus ammo there is. My personal best that day was just under 4", but I'm not as practiced of a shot.
If you can shoot under 1-1/2 MOA out to 300 yards with your Mosin Nagant DO NOT sell the rifle, keep it.
talaananthes
02-20-13, 17:50
Haha wasn't planning to sell. Although, many M39s should be capable of at least 1.5 MOA if they're in good condition. The acceptance standard for the M39 was the most exacting of any general issue infantry rifle ever . . . I forget the exact millimeter number for a three shot group that was required, but it was something like 1.7 MOA.
talaananthes
02-20-13, 17:52
And btw, if anyone's curious how we mounted the scope, it's actually pretty easy if you have some machine shop skills. Get a spare magazine housing/trigger guard piece (not your nice Finnish modified one that came on the M39) and weld a steel arm to the side of it which holds a weaver rail above the receiver. It's a fugly little thing but it works well without leaving a mark on the rifle.
El Pistolero
02-20-13, 18:17
And btw, if anyone's curious how we mounted the scope, it's actually pretty easy if you have some machine shop skills. Get a spare magazine housing/trigger guard piece (not your nice Finnish modified one that came on the M39) and weld a steel arm to the side of it which holds a weaver rail above the receiver. It's a fugly little thing but it works well without leaving a mark on the rifle.
Do you have pictures of such a contraption? I'd really like to see that....
talaananthes
02-20-13, 22:59
Unfortunately not, no one had a real camera and the phone I had then died with all pics still onboard. It wasnt a complicated thing, though, just a bit of hammering and welding.
talaananthes
02-22-13, 10:47
There was a reply someone posted that was very well written, but seems to have disappeared. I'm going to repost it from the email that got sent to me:
"An AR-15 chamber brush in a drill will also help with the sticky bolt syndrome. One of the causes is old cosmoline hardening like varnish inside the area just behind the chamber where the bolt lugs turn and lock.
The Mosin-Nagant is one of my favorite rifle, despite being clumsy they are rugged. Fred Flintstone probably carried one. I currently own 4, but have owned over a dozen and have slimmed down my collection quite a bit. I currently have two M91/59s (M91/30 that were chopped down to arm Soviet satellite states in the event of a Cold War ground war), an M91/30 that was captured by the Finnish and stamped/reworked by them (has the nicest bore I've ever seen on any M-N), and Finnish M39. The latter is the finest mil-surp I have ever fired, the Cadillac of Mosin-Nagants and even mil-surps in general. The Finn M39s are up there with Swiss K-31s and Swede M96 Mausers.
Look on the Box O' Truth for getting more accuracy out of your Mosin: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu63.htm
Also, a trigger job can be performed at home with a Dremel and a polishing attachment (NOT grinding), and some washers of the right size to go under the trigger leaf spring. Just be sure that when you lighten/smooth up the trigger, you close the bolt on the unloaded weapon and slam the butt on the ground HARD to ensure the weapon won't fire if dropped, it is essential for safety. I made some triggers a little too light and they didn't pass this test so I had to remove some spacers under the trigger spring. There are several sites where you will find these DIY trigger jobs. Remember safety is more important than having a match trigger.
Also, for a little humor: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm
One last warning, Mosins tend to multiply."
This is all very good information. Most M39's have already been modified to have a very nice two stage trigger, and their magazines have already been modified to feed more efficiently (unmodified mags occasionally jam in very cold weather when they're dirty). My Finn-capture 91/30 actually has a nasty old worn out bore, one of the worst I've seen, but it's clearly a rifle that's been through hell. It's also got the strangest assortment of features I've ever seen, I'm pretty sure it's actually a Russian-recapture rifle, and THAT is very rare indeed.
As to the M39 vs the K31 or the M96 . . . that's a hard call. The others will be smoother actions, even the Finns couldn't make the Mosin bolt sing like a Mauser, but M39 barrels were made by SAKO and similar craftsmen at other armories. They have very, very few rivals anywhere in the world in terms of the quality of their weapon production.
El Pistolero
02-23-13, 12:57
talaananthes,
That was my post, but it didn't make it to the thread because I got a screen that said my post needed moderator approval. Hence why I started this thread: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=124822
I received my Mosin yesterday. The condition is surprisingly great. No rust so far (have not taken the wooden stock off yet) and the barrel has strong rifling. In fact, the wooden stock is in near perfect condition after all these years. I do not know the factory it came from but it's a 1942 model.
Given the excellent condition, I'm curious as to the accuracy/range I'll get from it. Anyone shoot their Mosin at long distances, and if so what's your maximum range (given it's in good condition) ?
I received my Mosin yesterday. The condition is surprisingly great. No rust so far (have not taken the wooden stock off yet) and the barrel has strong rifling. In fact, the wooden stock is in near perfect condition after all these years. I do not know the factory it came from but it's a 1942 model.
Given the excellent condition, I'm curious as to the accuracy/range I'll get from it. Anyone shoot their Mosin at long distances, and if so what's your maximum range (given it's in good condition) ?
With a web sling and surplus ammo hits standing at 300 yards are the norm on a 4X4 foot steel plate. But keep in mind when I could do that I was shooting ONLY a mosin. Used to make guys shooting bench with a scope look bad. Man if I had the eyes I had back then. Barrel heats up fast, so let her cool or she will string bad. Common error is flinch and vertical stringing due to sight alignment.
talaananthes
02-27-13, 18:07
You should be able to do much better than hitting a 4'x4' plate if you have a good barrel and match your bullets correctly. If you want to shoot for accuracy, you MUST slug your barrel and figure out what your actual diameter is, there's a lot of variation especially in wartime Russian guns. Theory is .311 but you might hit anywhere between about .308 and .316.
I've shot near-MOA groups from my Mosin with surplus ammo at 300 yards benched with a high mag scope rigged, but that's a Finn M39 using Czech silvertip which matches my barrel's diameter perfectly and is far more consistent than the Russian and Bulgarian machine gun ammo available now. With handloads, not done by me, someone else managed to get sub-MOA.
If you want to shoot distance, get a Finn rifle.
WNY_Whitetailer
02-28-13, 10:48
I purchased my Mosin from Aim.com about 2 years ago for maybe $100 or a little less. It was one of the models with the laminate stock. I love it...Did take a while to get the cosmoline off of it though.
Skip the Mosin and buy a 98 Mauser variant.
You can still find Czech VZ-24s in the 200 dollar range.
The 98 Mauser is just a better action all the way around...especially for a custom rifle.
-brickboy240
It's not as easy finding 8x57 Surplus as it once was, in my experience.
I have like 20 rnds of 8mm surplus left, and after that's gone I shall handload from then on out. (You can trim 30/06 or .270 casings and neck up the mouth. Also, these casings usually litter the floor at most rifle ranges, so they're like practically free.)
Regarding Mosins, it would be of benefit for OP to use the search button. I say that because I know we've had a few threads about these rifles in the past.
ForTehNguyen
03-08-13, 17:43
took my Mosin PU sniper to 400 yards today, hitting steel consistently with surplus ammo
black22rifle
06-25-14, 17:52
Bump up.
I am thinking about buying my first nagant pretty soon. I don't have access to any of the headspace and firing pin tools, however. I am just looking for a decent shooter to buy and take straight to the range, what are the chances of the thing blowing up on me?
Bump up.
I am thinking about buying my first nagant pretty soon. I don't have access to any of the headspace and firing pin tools, however. I am just looking for a decent shooter to buy and take straight to the range, what are the chances of the thing blowing up on me?
The chances are low, granted you inspect the bore/chamber and use decent ammo. My only suggestion is to inspect the bore and make sure its clear of any obstructions.
Mosin Nagant's are very rugged and well-build rifles. There is a youtube video online where they tried to blow up a Mosin using overcharged ammo and it still did not blowup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfiXFyIbOZw
goodoleboy
06-27-14, 15:47
Yeah, I couldn't believe the compressed load of 2400 didn't send that thing to the moon!!!
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