View Full Version : SEAL who shot UBL
Here is a very interesting read about the story of the guy and his fellow SEALs who shot UBL.
Also, it sucks that after he leaves, he's told to go pound sand. How many worthless bureaucrats and such keep their fat pensions after they retire?
But these guys? Nah, they can go pound sand apparently.
Sucks for our vets.
PS-I'd imagine its just as bad for all of our regular joes, no?
MountainRaven
02-11-13, 14:23
Maybe he should do what many of his peers have done: Get into training.
Of course, he couldn't reveal what he has done, which would make him (in the public eye) "just another" retired Navy SEAL doing training. Revealing what he has done would quite possibly make him the most sought-after firearms instructor in the history of, well, ever. If anyone believed him.
Only got a chance to skim the article at work. Why did he leave at 16 when he was so close to his 20?
Only got a chance to skim the article at work. Why did he leave at 16 when he was so close to his 20?
I think that's far from the main point here, but maybe he just got damn tired of doing it.
Opening a training company does make sense, but with what is happening right now, is it even feasible?
brickboy240
02-11-13, 16:00
Yeah...who is training when there is no ammo to be found and everything is so expensive?
-brickboy240
Only got a chance to skim the article at work. Why did he leave at 16 when he was so close to his 20?
Isn't their an up or out policy of sorts?
NCPatrolAR
02-11-13, 17:08
Yeah...who is training when there is no ammo to be found and everything is so expensive?
-brickboy240
Plenty. I had 17 several weeks ago for a handgun class
Only got a chance to skim the article at work. Why did he leave at 16 when he was so close to his 20?
"But the Shooter will discover soon enough that when he leaves after sixteen years in the Navy, his body filled with scar tissue, arthritis, tendonitis, eye damage, and blown disks, here is what he gets from his employer and a grateful nation:
Nothing. No pension, no health care, and no protection for himself or his family."
Sounds like his body is mangled train wreck and he simply cannot continue.
Heavy Metal
02-11-13, 17:37
Couldn't he rotate back into the fleet and finish his final four years doing something in the regular Navy??
PA PATRIOT
02-11-13, 17:52
You would think that the Navy would cut the Seal who capped OBL a little slack with a sweet duty assignment for his finial four years of military service to make his twenty.
Just goes to show no good deed ever goes rewarded.
You would think that the Navy would cut the Seal who capped OBL a little slack with a sweet duty assignment for his finial four years of military service to make his twenty.
Just goes to show no good deed ever goes rewarded.
The White House even more so. But then again the admin would make you think POTUS was the first one through the door that night anyways.
Voodoochild
02-11-13, 18:07
I have to say that the responses here are WAY, WAY different than on TOS. The man is a legend and it sucks that he got out before his 20 so he could get full benefits but also I understand that maybe physically he want able to do it anymore. You have to stop and think that those men is the Special Operations Community go 100 miles an hour all the time. They are worked hard and work hard.
I truly hope someone offers that man a job maybe one of the main players in the gun industry can help him out.
Yeah I was wondering why he didn't go into training like Mr. Kyle or Mr. Defoor, but then I realized that he can't exactly talk about what he did which would cancel out his main way of getting people's attention.
That, and all of these guys cannot go and saturate the training sector. It make it difficult for everyone.
I am curious, what was said on TOS? I never go there and have no desire to navigate its confusing layout.
At the end of the day, this is about Navy and DOD regs, and Federal law. You cannot just bend them on a whim, even for the outstanding American who capped UBL.
He VOLUNTARILY exited the service. Even if he wasn't physically able to continue as a SEAL, the Navy wouldn't put him out "just like that." If warranted, he would have gone before a medical board and rated according to his disability, given a new job/MOS, separated, or even medically retired. Translation: at least some benefits.
No idea why one would get out at 16, and having been in almost 18 myself, he certainly should have known that when you get out without retirement, you're on your own. It is equally perplexing that he's "going public" bemoaning that fact.
There is nothing about this that makes sense. :confused:
Heavy Metal
02-11-13, 18:51
Yeah I was wondering why he didn't go into training like Mr. Kyle or Mr. Defoor, but then I realized that he can't exactly talk about what he did which would cancel out his main way of getting people's attention.
That, and all of these guys cannot go and saturate the training sector. It make it difficult for everyone.
I am curious, what was said on TOS? I never go there and have no desire to navigate its confusing layout.
If he were to put out his shingle and advertise what he did, all it takes is one Jihad Johnny to slip into his class and wait till his back is turned and then you will be hearing about the snackbar and gunfire.
I think everyone's getting too caught up in the fact that he pulled the trigger on UBL. So what? I'm sure any of his teammates would have done the exact same thing. I'm not trying to discredit him, the unit, or anything like that, but what makes him more special than any other high speed operator that gets out before his 20? I think it's shitty and that more should definitely be done for him but I don't think that it matters whether he was the one pulling the trigger, pulling security down an empty hallway, or providing over watch in the helo.
ETA - kry226 said a lot of the stuff I was going for...
Heavy Metal
02-11-13, 18:54
I think everyone's getting too caught up in the fact that he pulled the trigger on UBL. So what? I'm sure any of his teammates would have done the exact same thing. I'm not trying to discredit him, the unit, or anything like that, but what makes him more special than any other high speed operator that gets out before his 20? I think it's shitty and that more should definitely be done for him but I don't think that it matters whether he was the one pulling the trigger, pulling security down an empty hallway, or providing over watch in the helo.
He is like Neil Armstrong. He didn't come close to doing it all himself but he was the man who wound up at the end of the chain. He was in the right place at the right time for a meeting with history.
Alpha Sierra
02-11-13, 19:02
I think that's far from the main point here,
No, that IS the only point.
He knew the deal was 20 for bennies when he signed up. Now he thinks he's special.
I don't think so.
Heavy Metal
02-11-13, 19:12
Why couldn't he re-up and go regular Navy to finish his final four?
Why couldn't he re-up and go regular Navy to finish his final four?
Wouldn't pass the physical exam at MEPS, if made to go back through the full enchilada, but I don't have a lot of experience with those situations.
Heavy Metal
02-11-13, 19:45
Could he not seek a waiver? Surely somebody with his knowledge could find an instructor slot somewhere.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-11-13, 19:45
Hope he kept his medical records....at least he can have his VA bennies when he gets out.
Could he not seek a waiver? Surely somebody with his knowledge could find an instructor slot somewhere.
I'm sure there's an exception to policy that could be worked, and I bet the Navy could have set him up with a sweet gig before all this mess happened.
But even if the Navy asked him back, would he go?
At the end of the day, this is about Navy and DOD regs, and Federal law. You cannot just bend them on a whim, even for the outstanding American who capped UBL.
He VOLUNTARILY exited the service. Even if he wasn't physically able to continue as a SEAL, the Navy wouldn't put him out "just like that." If warranted, he would have gone before a medical board and rated according to his disability, given a new job/MOS, separated, or even medically retired. Translation: at least some benefits.
No idea why one would get out at 16, and having been in almost 18 myself, he certainly should have known that when you get out without retirement, you're on your own. It is equally perplexing that he's "going public" bemoaning that fact.
There is nothing about this that makes sense. :confused:
I agree - something does not pass the sniff test. I've also been in for 16 good years (most reserve) and know how to play the game so that my retirement is secure.
He was healthy enough to participate in the operation to kill OBL just 21 months ago and now he is physically incapable of staying in the service to finish his 20? I personally know 3 colleagues who sustained serious injuries (2 combat and 1 CONUS accident) near the end of their careers and the military bent over backwards to let them finish their 20. As my units profiling officer, I've also been involved plenty of cases sent before a MEB and can attest from the Army side that it is hard to be medically discharged.
What this really sounds like is a guy who is bitter that he cannot market his claim to fame. OK, I get that.
On a lighter note, I seem to remember hearing about a program where the Navy will retrain disaffected SEALs by sending them to culinary school. I hear they usually get a sweat gig on a battleship with a WEST PAC tour if they play their cards right...
theblackknight
02-11-13, 21:30
KRY's post pretty much shut this one down.
Also, yeah he could get into the training world, but the market is pretty deep now, and it's not like it's every dude's dream job anyways. It wouldnt be bad if he pulled a Jerry Barnhart and only taught Socom types.EDIT: never mind, that stuff is about to dry up too
The subject of the article is a poser. There is no F'n way he is who he claims to be.
I agree - something does not pass the sniff test.
Yeah, something tells me that the article is contrived using publicly available info on the raid from various sources, and info on problems that someone who left the navy is facing--maybe even a SEAL Then mixed them together and created an article on the SEAL who faceshot Osama Bin Laden and the problems that individual is facing upon leaving the Navy short of retirement.
The author of the article, Phil Bronstein is the former editor of the San Francisco Chronicle and currently serves as executive chairman of the Center for Investigative Reporting, based in Berkley, CA.
Here's one passage from the article that has me suspect that the author is fabricating. Upon learning that Obama supposedly had forces ready to blast the SEALs out if Pakistan intervened, the SEAL supposedly said:
This is hearsay, but I understand Obama said, Hell no. My guys are not surrendering. What do we need to rain hell on the Pakistani military? That was the one time in my life I was thinking, I am ****ing voting for this guy. I had a picture of him lying in bed at night, thinking, You're not ****ing with my guys. Like, he's thinking about us.
Had a picture of Obama lying in bed at night?
It seems like the writer of the piece can't resist planting some over-the-top pro-Obama sentiments.
Bizarre and hard to believe article. 16 years, quit, and don't understand how your insurance works? 16 years and don't understand that you don't get retirement unless you do 20. 16 years and don't know you could just go reserves and finish up.
My brother in law was blown up while attached in a support role with 3rd SFG. He was in about 14 years at the point. He healed up and returned to service with the support of his unit. They allowed him a ton of leeway to stay in until his 20. He understand fully how the system works and what the future will bring for him. Odd that a Seal purportedly can't figure it out.
At the end of the day, this is about Navy and DOD regs, and Federal law. You cannot just bend them on a whim, even for the outstanding American who capped UBL.
He VOLUNTARILY exited the service. Even if he wasn't physically able to continue as a SEAL, the Navy wouldn't put him out "just like that." If warranted, he would have gone before a medical board and rated according to his disability, given a new job/MOS, separated, or even medically retired. Translation: at least some benefits.
No idea why one would get out at 16, and having been in almost 18 myself, he certainly should have known that when you get out without retirement, you're on your own. It is equally perplexing that he's "going public" bemoaning that fact.
There is nothing about this that makes sense. :confused:
I agree with you 100%. This doesn't make any sense.
Several other SEALs seem to have left before 20 years recently - and they now the deal. No 20, no retirement. I left active duty at 13 and knew the same thing.
A couple of comments.
First, I understand what it's like to have "had enough", so I get that. For me another 7 on active duty wasn't what I wanted or needed to do for me or my family.
Second, when getting out of the military (even after retiring) you need to make a plan. It's not like most people are able to keep up their lifestyle on 50% of base pay, which usually amounts to @ 30-35% of what you were making. Get training, go back to school, network your skills, and figure it out.
Third, he should be able to get VA disability payments when his record clears processing. That's tax free money for the rest of his life. No enough to live on, but it's still something. And if he was medically unfit to continue service he could have been medically retired.
Fourth, he has the 9-11 GI Bill, which pays schooling and if you go more than 50% credit load, you you get BAH at E-5 w/ dependants. Again, not enough to live on but it's $$$ rolling in while he's learning a new skill.
Lastly, yes he shot UBL. But so could any of the 23 SEALs on the mission, or pretty much any active or retired SEAL out there. He's not Neil Armstrong, he's a combat veteran who deserves respect for his accomplishments but also needs to get his ass in gear and provide for his family.
Maybe he should have cashed in and wrote a book...
I know it's a very crowded market out theses days, but a person with his depth of knowledge, experience, and creds, are not exactly common either no?
With some creativity, he'd be able to market/position himself into something that worked for him, given his limitations, be they physical and or OPSEC related.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for his achievements and service, but of the person in that article is the real deal, he'd find a place for his unique skills sets.
However, everyone is an individual with unique strengths/weaknesses/issues/limitations, and an ability to think outside the box in terms of what happens after the military, and I have seen that too.
Regardless of the "business" one is in, retirement from it is a huge jolt to the person, that can put them in a tail spin for a time, and I'm sure it's amplified 100X going from what he did, to who he is now.
Pre planning for "what's next" in advance of leaving essential to avoiding the tail spin effect. Easier said than done, that's for sure.
So, I hope someone who has made that transition who "get's" what he's dealing with (giving benefit of the article being accurate) who has made the transition reaches out to him and assists him in that transition.
I have no doubt once you have lived and ran in the circles he has, after must be a let down of sorts and some seem to be able to deal with that, some not.
I'm a no one in that community, and I could think of 100 things he could do that might fit is unique requirements.
A couple of more comments, assuming of course this article is an accurate representation on the SEAL who shot UBL.
First, he didn't retire, he separated from active duty. That brings no benefits / pay / etc.
Second, lots of SEALs on the enlisted side get extra pay which usually brings their active duty pay well into the 6-figure range. However retirement is 50% of base pay, bringing retirement pay down into the 30% range. At almost all military members avoid paying state taxes while on active duty while retaining residency in a state that doesn't collect taxes on military members / doesn't tax income. So that is another hit on retirement pay when members choose to reside in a state that taxes income / retirement pay. VA, for example, has a 5% income tax, so that is something to consider.
Lastly, leaving active duty after being a SEAL, pilot, aviator, infantry, whatever is a change. You leave a very busy and active career for one with a lot less excitement - but that is by design and usually part of the reason you retire. Kinda like the end of the movie "Goodfellas", you missing "the life". But of course you are only missing the 5% of the good times, not the 95% shit / being gone / missing birthdays - anniversaries / holidays.
I wish any member of the armed forces the best after leaving active duty / retiring. It's part of the process. This guys isn't the first, nor will he be the last, to tackle the difficulty of returning to civilian life.
Second, lots of SEALs on the enlisted side get extra pay which usually brings their active duty pay well into the 6-figure range.
Kind of off topic, but does deployment/hazard/jump/dive pay really make up that kind of difference for these guys? On the military pay chart, an E-7 with 10-12 years of service will only make $3876/mo...which comes to just over $46k. How is that possible that it makes up for $54k+??
CarlosDJackal
02-12-13, 09:22
Here is a very interesting read about the story of the guy and his fellow SEALs who shot UBL.
Also, it sucks that after he leaves, he's told to go pound sand. How many worthless bureaucrats and such keep their fat pensions after they retire?...
Whoa!! I thought the SEAL that actually shot UBL is still living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in DC? :confused:
Kind of off topic, but does deployment/hazard/jump/dive pay really make up that kind of difference for these guys? On the military pay chart, an E-7 with 10-12 years of service will only make $3876/mo...which comes to just over $46k. How is that possible that it makes up for $54k+??
-Special Duty Assignment Pay (SDAP) = $75-450/mo depending on billet. But I've been told members of the UBL unit get $1k/mo for working there.
-Hazardous Duty Incentive Pay = $150/mo (jumping, etc)
-Sea pay = $135-600/mo
-Hostile fire pay = $225/mo
-Dive pay = $175-340/mo
-Re-enlistment bonus = variable, but substantial for SEALs - portions non-taxable if re-enlisting in a combat zone (which was standard practice, even in the aviation community I was in). When I left active duty in 2009 SEALs were getting $60K for 5 years, or $1k/mo.
-Family Separation Allowance = $75/mo - non-taxable
-Housing allowance (E-7 / Virginia Beach) = $1785 w/dependants, $1431 w/o - non-taxable
So as you can see, it adds up. The $100K figure mentioned by my friend / co-worker was applicable to him as a E-7/8 in the 18-20 year range with no taxes as a FL resident. And newer NSW personnel get less of course, but most of the guys in the unit that shot UBL are E7-9, 10+ years.
But when you retire, all you get is 50% of your base pay, everything else goes away (not saying its a bad deal, but lots of people just think 50% of their "pay", but a lot of military "pay" is incentive pay / allowances).
Failure2Stop
02-12-13, 09:25
Kind of off topic, but does deployment/hazard/jump/dive pay really make up that kind of difference for these guys?
Yes, even without the combat related pay.
Also tend to get pretty decent reenlistment bonuses.
I recommend anyone in the military that wants to do good work to get into a "special" unit as soon as possible. While infantry units back in the day (pre-2007, and every now and then recently) got do do some pretty ballsy missions, those times have changed, and a renewed focus on peacetime/garrison life has effectively neutered/pussified almost everyone outside the SOCOM umbrella.
ETA: RHINOWSO made a nice break-down while I was typing this.
-Special Duty Assignment Pay (SDAP) = $75-450/mo depending on billet
-Hazardous Duty Incentive Pay = $150/mo (jumping, etc)
-Sea pay = $135-600/mo
-Hostile fire pay = $225/mo
-Dive pay = $175-340/mo
-Re-enlistment bonus = variable, but substantial for SEALs - portions non-taxable if re-enlisting in a combat zone (which was standard practice, even in the aviation community I was in). When I left active duty in 2009 SEALs were getting $60K for 5 years, or $1k/mo.
-Family Separation Allowance = $75/mo - non-taxable
-Housing allowance (E-7 / Virginia Beach) = $1785 w/dependants, $1431 w/o - non-taxable
So as you can see, it adds up. The $100K figure mentioned by my friend / co-worker was applicable to him as a E-7/8 in the 18-20 year range with no taxes as a FL resident. And newer NSW personnel get less of course, but most of the guys in the unit that shot UBL are E7-9, 10+ years.
But when you retire, all you get is 50% of your base pay, everything else goes away (not saying its a bad deal, but lots of people just think 50% of their "pay", but a lot of military "pay" is incentive pay / allowances).
Hm, yeah I guess if you factor in a re-enlistment bonus over the course of the 4 years, you do get into the 6 figures...and that's not even factoring in Sea Pay, since I think they only get that if they're at sea for a number of days per month...which most of them aren't.
Not too bad at all really....
Yes, even without the combat related pay.
Also tend to get pretty decent reenlistment bonuses.
I recommend anyone in the military that wants to do good work to get into a "special" unit as soon as possible. While infantry units back in the day (pre-2007, and every now and then recently) got do do some pretty ballsy missions, those times have changed, and a renewed focus on peacetime/garrison life has effectively neutered/pussified almost everyone outside the SOCOM umbrella.
ETA: RHINOWSO made a nice break-down while I was typing this.
Thanks F2S. If only I knew this when I was pitching this idea to my wife :p
Kind of off topic, but does deployment/hazard/jump/dive pay really make up that kind of difference for these guys? On the military pay chart, an E-7 with 10-12 years of service will only make $3876/mo...which comes to just over $46k. How is that possible that it makes up for $54k+??
So for arguments sake, lets use your example of a 12yr NSW, married in VA Beach.
Base pay - $3876
BHA - $1785
Special Duty assignment pay (SEAL / SD-6 Level) - $450/mo
Hazardous Duty pay (Jump) - $150/mo
Dive Pay - $150/mo
Hostile Fire Pay - $225/mo
Right there you are at $80k / E-7 / 12 years of service. Basic pay and BHA go up with rate and years of service. And no SRB is included in that either (they can get a lump sum of a portion of it and then yearly payments afterwards).
^^^^^
You're right, that doesn't include sea pay and other things like FSA (gone from your family >30 days).
And we all know there are wickets to keep sea pay / dive pay / jump pay / etc and EVERY military unit I've seen KNOWS how to meet the minimums. Aka, jumps / dives / boat trips XX times per XX days to keep getting paid.
Combat pay was supposed to be changed to a "per day" vice 1 day and you get the whole month. Lots of "site visits" to combats zones by staffs were scheduled for the 31st through the 1st, 2 days got you 2 months of HFP / Tax free pay...
Right, I'm tracking with ya...I guess I just never dug too deep and added up the numbers...
Right, I'm tracking with ya...I guess I just never dug too deep and added up the numbers...
No problem. And no one should construe that I'm saying they don't deserve it, they certainly do.
But take a SEAL that retires at 20yrs as an E-8. You can see from my example he was clearing over $100K a year active duty.
He was making $4848/mo base pay though. 50% of that is under $30k before taxes, which he (like most military members) didn't have to pay (federal & tax income taxes). So you can see it's 50% of base pay, but more like 25% of actual active duty pay. So unless someone has saved a lot of money and planned to reduce their standard of living / already paid off their house (and really, not many have done that), they still need to find a $70-90K/year job to get back to what they were making, even retiring at 20yrs.
Again, it's no secret to anyone who cares to READ THE FINE PRINT. But lots of military personnel, officer and enlisted, all communities, don't bother and then when they see their first paycheck get upset.
http://twitchy.com/2013/02/12/msm-serves-up-big-steaming-pile-of-bs-about-former-navy-seal-who-shot-osama-bin-laden/
Glenn Beck is going to start a trust for this guy. He's got to work out how to be certain the funds pass to him while still keeping him adn family publicly unknown.
Just a heads up if anyone is interested helping the guy.
There is way more to this story than meets the eye...for whatever reason, he CHOSE to leave at 16 (and I'll bet it's family more than anything else). Not the smartest move. Still, that's his choice and I honor it. He may not have a retirement, nor the level of recent 'excitement' but he's still got lots of opportunities. I suspect the SEAL association is reaching out to him as we speak. He's being done a greater disservice by being used as a political pawn. Thank you for your service silent warrior!
Glenn Beck is going to start a trust for this guy. He's got to work out how to be certain the funds pass to him while still keeping him adn family publicly unknown.
Just a heads up if anyone is interested helping the guy.
Don't really see the need - why can't he find a job? Why can't he pay for his family's needs?
Sure, he has the notoriety of shooting UBL, but other than "being the guy", he's no different than anyone else leaving active duty at or before retirement.
Type up your resume, buy a suit, practice for interviews, network, and find employment. It's what the rest of us have done.
He should give TigerSwan a call. He'd fit right in and depending on which section he worked for, it could still be fairly exciting.
From some of the information coming out it sounds like he has several service connected injuries. He should join the Disabled American Veterans, then apply for disability benefits with the Veterans Administration. If the VA jerks him around, the DAV can help him with the process.
It's not much money, but better than nothing.
From some of the information coming out it sounds like he has several service connected injuries. He should join the Disabled American Veterans, then apply for disability benefits with the Veterans Administration. If the VA jerks him around, the DAV can help him with the process.
It's not much money, but better than nothing.
Again, he's not alone there. My coworker, a 22 year retired member of the same unit had multiple injuries and received 70% VA Disability. It's not enough to live on by itself, but it is a good chunk of tax free money.
Again, he isn't dealing with anything other separated or retired veterans haven't dealt with. But according to this article he hasn't tackled the task of life after the military with the same vigor that he tackled real life missions with - and that is what he needs to do.
Belmont31R
02-13-13, 10:46
If he was physically unable to continue in the Navy why wouldn't he get a medical retirement? I knew a guy who got medically retired for sleep apnea.
I agree no matter what you did while you are the rules for retirement are there. Plenty of NCO's got out with 10+ years and didn't get squat except the GI Bill from when they joined.
Doesn't make sense 'the guy who shot OBL' would make this much noise, though.
If he was physically unable to continue in the Navy why wouldn't he get a medical retirement? I knew a guy who got medically retired for sleep apnea.
I agree no matter what you did while you are the rules for retirement are there. Plenty of NCO's got out with 10+ years and didn't get squat except the GI Bill from when they joined.
Doesn't make sense 'the guy who shot OBL' would make this much noise, though.
Agree on all counts.
Alpha Sierra
02-13-13, 18:14
Kind of off topic, but does deployment/hazard/jump/dive pay really make up that kind of difference for these guys? On the military pay chart, an E-7 with 10-12 years of service will only make $3876/mo...which comes to just over $46k. How is that possible that it makes up for $54k+??
I was a surface nuke O-3 when I left in 94 and I could have made an easy 10K/year over base pay+allowances+sea pay just for staying on another 3.
Job with high burnout rate and high civilian employability = nice retention bonuses
TurretGunner
02-13-13, 18:29
I was a surface nuke O-3 when I left in 94 and I could have made an easy 10K/year over base pay+allowances+sea pay just for staying on another 3.
Job with high burnout rate and high civilian employability = nice retention bonuses
Plus a big chunk of that is Tax free. Also don't have to worry about medical/dental/housing/food ect.
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