Thinking of trading off a SIG P229 what to replace it with?

[Coal Dragger]

As the thread title suggests I am considering trading off or selling outright a SIG P229 DAK, I have both the .40S&W and .357SIG barrels for this pistol. I virtually never use the .40S&W barrel, and prefer the .357SIG hands down but ammo is expensive, hard to find, and a pain in the ass to reload according to everyone who's tried it.

Also despite my best efforts to like the DAK trigger, fact is that I don't. At all. In fact I'll flatly state that I hate all double action triggers that are not on a revolver. I've shot it enough to know that while mechanically pretty accurate, I am never going like this trigger. I also find the grip to be just a little too short, and a little too fat.

This brings up the question of what to replace it with, and I'm kind of stuck here. I want another .45ACP since I have large quantities of brass, bullets, ammo and reloading equipment for .45ACP including a progressive press set up to run .45ACP. I don't have the bench space for another progressive, and I'm not inclined to mess with setting up a new caliber on it every time I want to run ammo.

I have a Kimber Super Match II and I shoot it well and used to compete actively with this pistol but don't like carrying a gun with adjustable sights that hang up on everything. Plus I realize that a Bo-Mar style sight is not the most ding and knock resistant ever made.

I like a decent single action trigger, and I'm open to another 1911 but I am not hell bent on getting one. I used to own an HK USP45 that I really liked but at the time I couldn't have both the Kimber and the USP ($$$) so the USP got traded off. I liked that the USP was very accurate, very reliable, and could be carried cocked and locked. I didn't like the 2X4 like grip or the stock sights, and I wish the trigger were better on it.

So what I'm looking for is a reasonably sized .45ACP pistol, it doesn't have to be compact but I wouldn't rule that out either as long as I can get my whole shooting hand on the grip frame. I don't mind if the gun prints under garments when I do carry concealed, if I need a deep concealment piece I'll be looking for something else entirely.

I'm open to suggestions here if anyone cares to give any I'll consider them. I'm not afraid to spend some coin on a nice firearm within reason so this shouldn't be too hard since I don't have a a strict budget.

I would like something that is highly reliable, accurate/easy to shoot well, and durable under less than ideal conditions. My priorities are in that order, I don't mind doing some maintenance to keep a pistol performing well. Frankly the crowd that loves to run their guns dry and never clean them is one I don't really understand, but I was taught to take care of my equipment so it can take care of me.

Pistols under consideration right now are:

Springfield Armory TRP 1911 or some other good quality 1911

HK45 or HK45c

SIG Sauer P220 (SAO)

Open to other suggestions as long as they don't have a 2X4 for a grip, and have provision for a decent single action trigger.

[brickboy240]

I too am looking hard at the HK45C.

Thinking of trading two 1911s I never shoot for the thing, too.

I just like the size and feel of the HK45C...its not too thick and chunky like other polymer 45s.

-brickboy240

[LtNovakUSA]

Along with the HK45c, the M&P45 Mid size is a great platform. Its a good size for CCW, not too small to be difficult or uncomfortable to shoot, but not huge like some of the other double stack 45s. Trigger could be better out of the box, but you can train to it. The Apex kit works well too, if you find the trigger to be substandard.

[brickboy240]

That was my alternative...the M&P45 mid-sized.

It sure is cheaper than the HK45C.

-brickboy240

[LtNovakUSA]

It sure is cheaper than the HK45C.

-brickboy240

Indeed.

If money wasn't part of the equation I'd most likely go with an HK 45c with an LEM trigger, but I certainly feel confidant about the M&P. My example has been fine once I got used to the stock trigger.

I will mention that the M&P shipped with some wonky magazines, but S&W fixed the problem quickly. Ever since (roughly 4K later) its been great.

[crusader377]

I would buy this. Awesome deal for $510.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=307507

[TurretGunner]

I would buy this. Awesome deal for $510.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=307507

Yea don't forget another $150 to get rid of the M&P's shitty trigger.

[Coal Dragger]

I hadn't considered an M&P I'll see if I can find one to see how it feels in the hand. I do have to point out that for me as close to a true SA trigger I can get the better. I realize that training will bring skill up to whatever trigger I might have, but I already know that I shoot SA well.

I've dry fired a few M&P pistols and never liked those triggers either. Same for the Glock. However I know trigger jobs can be performed just curious what the triggers end up feeling like. I prefer minimal take up, a clean break, and just enough over travel to let the trigger reset.

[Magic_Salad0892]

M&P .45 Mid size, or HK45C.

However, you could always roll the tried, and true G19.

Also worth looking at in .45, would be an FN offering.

[rathos]

I just picked up an M&P mid size with the thumb safety. I am a 1911 guy and wanted something with the same manual of arms. I was some what impressed with the trigger. It is a bit heavy, but the reset is better then the last M&P 45 I owned. It doesn't seem to have that fake reset point I noticed in my last full size. I did order an FSS kit for it, but I hope to put a couple hundred rounds before I install it. I have been dry firing it and noticed that the trigger seems to be getting a bit lighter. Even with the FSS my total cost is about 780 which is still 60-80 lower then the lowest cost Springer I would consider (range officer).

If you are used to 1911s this is the best polymer gun out there. The price that G&R has on it is pretty amazing, and if I would have done a bit better research I would have ordered it there and saved roughly $70 after shipping and most likely could have had the FSS installed by Grant (I ordered the parts through him anyway). Plus he currently has extra mags in stock, though they do have the tan base plate.

The HK .45 is an amazing gun, but the thumb safety models get in the way for me, and I am not a huge fan of the LEM trigger. Plus the mags were 60 before the craze, so I would hate to see what they are now.

[MoCop]

Reasonably sized 45? I'd go with a 1911. The TRP would be a good gun to have. I know it's not a tacticool zombie killer, but it would serve you well.

[brickboy240]

From what I have read..the 45 caliber M&P does not suffer the accuracy problems that plague the M&P9 full size.

The few I have handled recently had better triggers (I only dry fired them) than the M&P9s I have shot. Maybe they DID put the Shield's trigger in the 45s?

They also seem to be reliable, as I don't recall any reports of M&P45s jamming.

It is hard to justify paying the price for the HK45C, when for the same amount of money for the HK45C alone I could have the M&P45C, several mags and maybe a Raven holster.

As much as I love my G19...I'd skip it right now. 9mm ammo is very hard to find as are G19 mags. I see 45 ammo all over the place and I am sure there is no panic buying of the M&P45 mags.

-brickboy240

[Coal Dragger]

I'm not in the market for a 9mm. So don't bother suggesting one. I'm set up to reload .45ACP in volume.

[Coal Dragger]

Reasonably sized 45? I'd go with a 1911. The TRP would be a good gun to have. I know it's not a tacticool zombie killer, but it would serve you well.

Tacticool nonsense makes me less likely to even consider a firearm or other products. That's just me though, and I tend to like relatively simple strait forward guns without a bunch of mall ninja shit hanging off of them. A good trigger, a good set of sights, and a grip that feels good and points well is all I really care about. Assuming of course the pistol is well made and reliable.

Any other 1911 sugestions other than a TRP? I've also considered Wilson, Baer, and Brown but that is getting up there $$$ wise to the point I would have to save some coin. Not saying I wouldn't buy one though, heavens knows I have more expensive guns than a semi-custom 1911.

[blueorison]

HK45.

Ergos are great, trigger is great, gun is accurate.


I don't own an HK, but I like the HK45.

[Omega Man]

M&P 45 or HK45.

[TurretGunner]

Tacticool nonsense makes me less likely to even consider a firearm or other products. That's just me though, and I tend to like relatively simple strait forward guns without a bunch of mall ninja shit hanging off of them. A good trigger, a good set of sights, and a grip that feels good and points well is all I really care about. Assuming of course the pistol is well made and reliable.

Any other 1911 sugestions other than a TRP? I've also considered Wilson, Baer, and Brown but that is getting up there $$$ wise to the point I would have to save some coin. Not saying I wouldn't buy one though, heavens knows I have more expensive guns than a semi-custom 1911.

Dan Wesson. Hands down built as well as the semi customs at a high end production price.

[DUNDEM]

M&P 45 or HK45.

Agreed. I'm a1911 guy BTW. Own a hk45c. Great carry 45! It would have to be at least a VBOB for me to buy a 1911 over a Hk45/45c. Had to stipple my 45c which made it perfect for me.

[Rinspeed]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Rinspeed/145.jpg

[Coal Dragger]

Going to try to find an M&P.45 and HK45 and compare the two if possible alongside a decent 1911.

The potential enhanced reliability of the S&W or HK over a 1911 are very attractive selling points as long as they have decent triggers grips and sights. Although sights are easy to replace.

[RHINOWSO]

This. Hot, bothered, abused. Doesn't care. What every other 45 out that wants to be, but isn't... ;)

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/HK45C/9F57FA34-3408-4619-B3DA-8E8421CB8A73-19543-00000516827EA5BA.jpg

[MoCop]

Tacticool nonsense makes me less likely to even consider a firearm or other products. That's just me though, and I tend to like relatively simple strait forward guns without a bunch of mall ninja shit hanging off of them. A good trigger, a good set of sights, and a grip that feels good and points well is all I really care about. Assuming of course the pistol is well made and reliable.

Any other 1911 sugestions other than a TRP? I've also considered Wilson, Baer, and Brown but that is getting up there $$$ wise to the point I would have to save some coin. Not saying I wouldn't buy one though, heavens knows I have more expensive guns than a semi-custom 1911.

Well, since you're asking, how about a Les Baer Custom Carry. It's what I carry everyday. It's no frills (not even a rail, gasp!), blued, night sights a great trigger and is very accurate.

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/barney2247/DSC01448.jpg

Worth every penny!

[Coal Dragger]

Got my mitts on a S&W M&P .45 this evening to see how it feels, no HK45 for comparison purposes (big surprise...). Grip isn't bad but not great either, although certainly better than the Glock 21 the gun salesman also insisted that I look at. Trigger take up was about what I expected on both and I had no preference for either one, both broke in the manner that striker fired guns seem to. The S&W had the crisper sear break (not much of an accomplishment) once all the slack was taken up, but also displayed an unacceptable amount of over travel that disturbed the sights. At this point not real impressed with that option, but I am very picky about triggers from days of shooting bullseye matches with some very nice pistols. While I don't demand a 2.2lb (1 kilo) trigger I can't stand excessive gritty take up or miles of over travel.

I also looked at two 1911's this evening. A Springfield TRP and an Ed Brown "Special Forces", both 5" guns, both with Novak style night sights and all the other refinements one would expect on a good to excellent 1911. The TRP was not as smooth or tight as the Brown, not that this came as a surprise. My biggest complaint with the TRP is the checkering on the front strap, 25LPI and it is sharp as a new bastard file. I like a checkered front strap and my Kimber Super Match II has 30LPI that stays put nicely but doesn't try to remove all the skin from my hand. The Brown has the "chain link" type treatment on the front strap, and it seems to work quite well without being hard on the hands. Honestly I'd prefer either one to the S&W or Glock that I looked at, or any SIG I've handled. My only complaint is that neither pistol has a provision for a light, but that is a fairly minor complaint since I doubt I would CCW with a light on the front. The Ed Brown is in fact nearly perfect; simple, strait forward, and very very well made.

[Coal Dragger]

Looking around online for any HK45's anywhere is turning out to be frustrating, at least finding one in stock that I could look at. Guess I'll have to wait for the current state of idiocy to die down a bit before I make any decisions.

[rathos]

The HKs were hard to find before this all happened. I am throwing an apex FSS in my M&P .45 which should make it quite a bit more like a 1911 trigger and not degrade the reliability. Plus even with that cost it is still cheaper than any HK .45 or 1911.


Looking around online for any HK45's anywhere is turning out to be frustrating, at least finding one in stock that I could look at. Guess I'll have to wait for the current state of idiocy to die down a bit before I make any decisions.

[Coal Dragger]

Hope it works out for you, without getting to try out these aftermarket triggers it is hard for me to commit to a particular handgun based on the possibility the trigger can be made much better than stock.

Oh well I may have to go out on a limb and order something sight unseen anyway if I do go with the HK, or some variant of the M&P. I notice that S&W is going to be offering a C.O.R.E. model M&P that is ready for an RMR, no clue if they'll offer it in .45ACP though. It could be a contender too since the ability to easily add a reflex sight at some point is a plus. I may buy an RMR to mount on my Freedom Arms .454 since I have a mounting plate for it, and if I like the concept see no reason not to put one on a semi-auto.

To me cost is not the #1 consideration here, not that I'm wealthy or anything I just appreciate well made firearms and am willing to pay for them within reason. I decided a few years ago that I didn't really have any interest in owing a whole lot of guns, I just wanted to own nice guns. So if it is a choice between quantity and quality I choose quality.

[rathos]

I will say the stock trigger is not horrible, it is just no 1911 and that is why I am putting the Apex in there. I will admit that I have been spoiled by my two Springers. Each one was bought on the dealer employee program and it seems they put some extra time and effort into my pistols and the triggers.

While the reset is much improved over the first gen M&Ps the pull seems quite a bit harder then I am used to. I went with the M&P line as I wanted a quality polymer gun with a good safety that didn't get in the way. That is why I don't like the H&K because the safety is very bulbous and sticks out. While LEM is a good option it takes away the safety part.

I messed around with a core 9mm that came in right before the big hoopla and I will say it reminded me of a Pro with the ability to put on an RMR or something similar. The trigger was pretty good, but not really any better then the .45 I just picked up. Good luck in your search and I hope you find the pistol that works best for you.


Hope it works out for you, without getting to try out these aftermarket triggers it is hard for me to commit to a particular handgun based on the possibility the trigger can be made much better than stock.

Oh well I may have to go out on a limb and order something sight unseen anyway if I do go with the HK, or some variant of the M&P. I notice that S&W is going to be offering a C.O.R.E. model M&P that is ready for an RMR, no clue if they'll offer it in .45ACP though. It could be a contender too since the ability to easily add a reflex sight at some point is a plus. I may buy an RMR to mount on my Freedom Arms .454 since I have a mounting plate for it, and if I like the concept see no reason not to put one on a semi-auto.

To me cost is not the #1 consideration here, not that I'm wealthy or anything I just appreciate well made firearms and am willing to pay for them within reason. I decided a few years ago that I didn't really have any interest in owing a whole lot of guns, I just wanted to own nice guns. So if it is a choice between quantity and quality I choose quality.

[Salamander]

I like my M&P 45.

I like my HK a lot more.

[Nmate]

Also worth looking at in .45, would be an FN offering.

I wouldn't say so. I spent two years with an FNP-45 and am not a fan. The thing is just too goddamn big. Yes, I know that a double-stack .45 ACP pistol is going to be large by nature. That said, it is still massive compared to something like an HK45c or M&P 45.

Mine also had reliability issues with Winchester White Box, a common issue with the .45 ACP FNPs. Yes, it is known. No, it isn't a huge deal. That said, the M&P 45 and HK45 don't have these issues.

[Coal Dragger]

Thanks for the input rathos some good points to consider. I suppose another advantage to the M&P is the conventional rifling since I shoot a lot of hard cast lead bullets and polygonal rifling and lead don't agree with one another.

[brickboy240]

Of the two M&P45s I handled....the triggers seemed MUCH better than the triggers on the M&P9s I have shot.

So much so...I might look at the M&P45 mid-size pistol.

Who knew?

-brickboy240

[TRD]

Check out the M&P45.

Get the HK if you're willing to break out your wallet. Both good options.

[beschatten]

I would look into a Sig P220 or P227 (New, double stack .45ACP same size as P226).

H&K45 is great as well. Can't go wrong with M&P. Maybe a Pony 1911? XSE and Colt Rail seems to be very popular on the 1911 board. If you don't like front serrations Series 70 or Series 80. Glock 21 would work as well.

I'm partial to Glocks and 1911's. So my vote goes to these two. The Dan Wesson Valor and SA TRP seem to be the most bang for your buck for the price range.

[WickedWillis]

I would look into a Sig P220 or P227 (New, double stack .45ACP same size as P226).

H&K45 is great as well. Can't go wrong with M&P. Maybe a Pony 1911? XSE and Colt Rail seems to be very popular on the 1911 board. If you don't like front serrations Series 70 or Series 80. Glock 21 would work as well.

I'm partial to Glocks and 1911's. So my vote goes to these two. The Dan Wesson Valor and SA TRP seem to be the most bang for your buck for the price range.


2nd for the Glock 21. Handles well, soft shooter, 13+1 capacity, parts are readily available. It is a great gun. And the price beats the HK.
The M&P is a fantastic .45 also, I personally am not crazy about the trigger but it isnt a big enough reason NOT to buy this well made gun.
The FN FNP45 again, great well priced choice. handles well also.

[Magic_Salad0892]

I wouldn't say so. I spent two years with an FNP-45 and am not a fan. The thing is just too goddamn big. Yes, I know that a double-stack .45 ACP pistol is going to be large by nature. That said, it is still massive compared to something like an HK45c or M&P 45.

Mine also had reliability issues with Winchester White Box, a common issue with the .45 ACP FNPs. Yes, it is known. No, it isn't a huge deal. That said, the M&P 45 and HK45 don't have these issues.

You're correct about both of those things. But to some people, they won't be an issue.

I really like the FNX guns however. If I wasn't a Glock guy already, I'd consider them.

[brickboy240]

The two M&P45s i handled had decent triggers. Not perfect but as I tried them I thought, "this is not perfect...but I could live with it."

Very different from the triggers on the M&P9s I have shot.

Did they stick the Shield's trigger in the M&P45?

-brickboy240

[SPDGG]

This. Hot, bothered, abused. Doesn't care. What every other 45 out that wants to be, but isn't... ;)

"RHINOWSO", Did you get work done by GrayGuns?
- Couldnt help but notice the matte gray finish where the safety would be.

- If so, could you post feedback from before/after?

Thank you

[Coal Dragger]

2nd for the Glock 21. Handles well, soft shooter, 13+1 capacity, parts are readily available. It is a great gun. And the price beats the HK.
The M&P is a fantastic .45 also, I personally am not crazy about the trigger but it isnt a big enough reason NOT to buy this well made gun.
The FN FNP45 again, great well priced choice. handles well also.

I don't like Glocks, at all, not even a little bit. The grips are shaped like a 2X4" and on the Glock 20/21 they are about the same size too, plus the grip angle is not to my liking. I appreciate the fact that they are well made, and tend to be reliable and somewhat accurate but all the ones I've shot didn't exactly make me want to buy one. While the higher capacity is nice, I have never felt under armed with a 1911 with 8 rounds on board.

If Glock were to rework their grip angle, and shape, put on sights that didn't suck shit, and put a good trigger on them out of the box I might consider one. Seeing as how I am evidently in the minority on my low opinion of their products, and they are having no trouble selling them, I won't hold my breath on that one.