View Full Version : General complaint.
Belmont31R
02-12-13, 22:25
I do not like the attitude the mods have in closing threads, and even saying people are 'slack jawed douche bags'. If mods need to close a thread, and do so because people are acting out line, I would like to see a more professional response.
Just a suggestion.
I understand that iron sharpens iron around here but I have to say that some of the rudeness on this site, in general, is overdone and not always necessary.
I do not like the attitude the mods have in closing threads, and even saying people are 'slack jawed douche bags'. If mods need to close a thread, and do so because people are acting out line, I would like to see a more professional response.
Just a suggestion.
Butt Hurt?
Belmont31R
02-13-13, 00:19
Butt Hurt?
I have no problem dishing out what is deserved but I don't like a double standard where forum staff are closing threads with such comments, and as I said to who banned me it smacks of elistism. I have over 8000 posts on this site, and never talked to anyone like that here.
Do you think moderators should set the example? I do.
Regardless of the issues...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TuUSF-RSlWU/R4Yuy_-QSVI/AAAAAAAAAGA/APuFCw9S6oU/s320/don%27t+poke+the+bear.jpg
No good will come of this thread. :(
Belmont31R
02-13-13, 00:29
Regardless of the issues...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TuUSF-RSlWU/R4Yuy_-QSVI/AAAAAAAAAGA/APuFCw9S6oU/s320/don%27t+poke+the+bear.jpg
No good will come of this thread. :(
Do you think this is a professional response?
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/IMG_0503_zps6159e09e.png
Belmont31R
02-13-13, 01:02
NVM....
It will probably fall on deaf ears, but I have to agree in this instance.
We all should act like adults. Unfortunately, even the mods slip up. That doesn't make it right however, and makes this site appear juvenile. Mod participation amplifies that effect. Close the thread. Ban people. Save the commentary.
SWATcop556
02-13-13, 01:55
No one person gets it right 100% of the time, especially on the Internet. Just because your screen name is red doesn't mean you are infallible. However we have a problem on this site. It's a small problem but left uncared for it will fester. We have a huge influx of new members. We also are facing heavy new legislation against the 2A. What it has done is divide our community. We have members who feel that LE is the strong arm jack booted thugs of the gov lining up to take your guns away. Then we have others that feel that any mention of LE in a negative light is anti LE. Those two groups then meet up in GD and all hell breaks loose.
My email is full of reported post every day from both camps and frankly it's tiresome. It's the same members reporting the same members then when a mod steps in we are biased an unfair. Who wins? No one.
If you don't like how the site is run by the mods speak to staff. If you don't like the staffs response start your own site. The Internet is a big place. There's plenty of room.
I would be delighted if GD was nuked completely as it serves up 98% of the bullshit here. The above quote doesn't single out any specific member as being a slack jawed douche bag. It singles out the behavior that has become the norm around here and frankly there are too many problem threads to monitor. Instead of trying to sanitize the thread we just close it and wait for the next person to shit the bed.
Bottom line we are all on the same side. We live our way of life and we feel it is severely threatened. Instead of fighting amongst ourselves how about we try to remain positive and fight the good fight. You don't like cops that's fine but keep that shit to yourself. M4C has always been pro LE and will continue to be so.
We use to have more SME participation here than on any other site. You see them posting less and less. Wonder why that is.
Close the thread.....Save the commentary.
And if we do we get PMs asking us to justify closing the threads. It just saves time and I can just delete the PM. But we can do that too if you think it'll work. Past experience says otherwise though.
Belmont31R
02-13-13, 03:12
Not sure who is filling your guy's inbox but it ain't me. As I've said recently I don't take things personally here but it's become obvious others do.
Aside from the topic of this thread are libertarian views allowed here? The message I got from my timeout was half focused towards the mod being tired of my views.
Bolt_Overide
02-13-13, 06:27
Some thoughts...
Moderating a site gets old fast, its one of the reasons you see turnover in the mods. There is no way in hell Ill ever do it again myself, and my experience was on a smaller site.
I mainly come here for good technical info coming from those who know more than me. Anything that threatens that should be stamped out with extreme prejudice in my opinion.
I used to read damn near ever post on here say a year or two ago. Now, I dont read half of them. There are far too many posts that add nothing to the site, and are basically the ramblings of retards that need to go back to arfcom.
This probably looks like im trying to put my nose up the mods asses, but I dont give a shit, id rather have the site back we had two years ago, and if that means they have to start stomping on testicles, fine by me.
I own a couple of websites/message boards and moderating them is a pain in the ass. I've had my peepee slapped a few times around here and didn't like it, so I sent the moderator a message.
Calling out moderators in open forum is not a good practice. The better solution is to message the moderator in question and if you're not happy after that then send a message to the man in charge.
Littlelebowski
02-13-13, 06:42
I would be delighted if GD was nuked completely as it serves up 98% of the bullshit here.
Me, too.
I tried having a normal conversation and the thread got locked before my questions were answered.
Note left: Contact the manufacturer.
That line could close just about any thread here.
It would have been nice to have the question answered and the information posted so anyone searching could find the answer also.
Easy Rhino
02-13-13, 08:05
I stumbled upon this site in December when I was looking for my first AR. It didn't take long to realize that the knowledge here was superior to other sites I visited, but this bickering by the supposed top people on the forum does not portray that same feeling. Yes people should be respectful, but also don't take shit personally. I've learned a ton in a 2+ months, have been able to communicate with professionals in the industry, and have purchased multiple products from supporting vendors like Grant from G&R tactical...I'm not sure what goal of the site is, but I'm guessing that's it in a nutshell. Just because the site has evolved and there are a couple threads that are deemed a "waste of time" it certainly doesn't mean the forum is getting worse. Adapt to change or start your own site. If you can't read every single post, either find more time in your day or freakin deal with it. I don't know how else I would learn a bunch of good info for free...and I can't imagine a better way for vendors to make connections at low or no cost.
Fact # 1: Mods and Staff work for FREE.
Fact # 2: People are SUPER whiny and annoying.
Fact # 3: People threaten mods and staff on a weekly basis.
Fact # 4: If people acted like adults and learned to control themselves, there would be ZERO need for a mod or staff.
C4
Littlelebowski
02-13-13, 08:39
I guarantee the mods' work load would drop by 80% if GD went away.
I guarantee the mods' work load would drop by 80% if GD went away.
I'd go so far as 95%.
There are other technical forums I (used to) visit unrelated to firearms. The reason I stop is the GD was so ought of hand.
And most importantly, while being a mod is a thankless job, they are not infallible. And criticism isn't just whiny complaining. I strongly feel that the quality of moderation has a direct impact on how a site is perceived. 1 mod or a single out of hand mod comment can ruin thousands of hours of positive work. Feedback is a valuable tool.
At the very least, go back and change voodoochild's comment to something like "You were warned and have been unable to continue in a manner reflecting the site's Code of Conduct. Thread is locked and discipline issued"
We shouldn't do it that way, and I am guilty of doing it too. That being said, no one except the mods and staff see the build up to the locks, bans, infractions, etc.
Usually, while two or more members are battling it out, we are discussing it. "Let it ride", "Lock it down"...."warn them both", "warn them all"....We cover the spectrum, so when the fan is finally hit, usually we've been letting it roll HOPING some adult discussion will seize the day.
Instead, it invariably goes downhill, and quickly. We get a snap reaction. The truly professional thing to do would have been to lock the thread upon the very first transgression of the rules, warn the adult males to stop breaking our rules, and move along. That professional response is met with threads talking about heavy-handed moderation, assholes closing threads when we are just talking, etc.
I have a novel idea for everyone:
Start being the moderator of any thread you are participating within. Moderate yourself. Adhere to our rules to the letter. Don't push the envelope. Instruct others about the content of our rules, and how the content in the thread may be running counter to those. Use the report button, and extricate yourself from the thread, if necessary.
NCPatrolAR
02-13-13, 09:42
The message I got from my timeout was half focused towards the mod being tired of my views.
Negative; that is not what was told to you. You were told that you're attitude was getting old and that you dont call out a mod that had just issued a "calm down or the thread will be locked" warning to everyone in the thread.
Your political beliefs have nothing to do with why you were issued an infraction that resulted in you being banned for several days. It was the bickering/unrespectful nature of your posts and the mod callouts (2x) that dropped you in timeout. So you can drop the "I'm the persecuted libertarian" shtick
A single person has not been singled out in any moderator action taken in recent past that I'm aware of. If you violate the rules, you get an infraction. There are around 10 people that will testify to this since I've hit that many with infractions since the 9th alone.
Fact # 1: Mods and Staff work for FREE.
Fact # 2: People are SUPER whiny and annoying.
Fact # 3: People threaten mods and staff on a weekly basis.
Fact # 4: If people acted like adults and learned to control themselves, there would be ZERO need for a mod or staff.
I absolutely agree with all 4 points. Number 4 isn't going to happen, however, so what's your contingency?
I absolutely agree with all 4 points. Number 4 isn't going to happen, however, so what's your contingency?
Group moderation (as SHIVAN pointed out). Beat down those in your ranks that are stepping out of line.
C4
thopkins22
02-13-13, 10:43
Are members made aware of infractions or bad behavior even if they don't result in a timeout?
I'm curious seeing as my name popped up in a screenshot of a thread closing earlier in this thread...sorta thought I did a decent job of toeing the line in that one.
NCPatrolAR
02-13-13, 10:54
If you get a warning or an infraction a PM is sent to your account detailing the offense
thopkins22
02-13-13, 10:55
Check.
Doc Safari
02-13-13, 11:02
I just don't see why people get all worked up over an internet thread anyway. It's just for entertainment and education for Pete's sake. It doesn't change the course of history.
I just don't see why people get all worked up over an internet thread anyway. It's just for entertainment and education for Pete's sake. It doesn't change the course of history.
Haha, this.
I just don't see why people get all worked up over an internet thread anyway. It's just for entertainment and education for Pete's sake. It doesn't change the course of history.
http://nathantimmel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/internet-serious-business.jpeg
And I just recently hit my 200 post count, so I hate to lose my new privilege...but I'm a grown man and know how to control myself. Can't understand grown men acting like two-year olds...and I'd expect people who handle firearms professionally to have more self-control than the average person on the internet.
I know, I know: Rookie, STFU :)
Fact # 1: Mods and Staff work for FREE.
Now this is noteworthy. Question is, when are you going to do something about it?
Fact # 2: People are SUPER whiny and annoying.
Good thing that's not directed at anyone.
Fact # 3: People threaten mods and staff on a weekly basis.
Never saw that one coming.
Fact # 4: If people acted like adults and learned to control themselves, there would be ZERO need for a mod or staff.
Right, which is why I've always said pure Libertarianism won't work.
:)
GeorgiaBoy
02-13-13, 21:11
And if we do we get PMs asking us to justify closing the threads. It just saves time and I can just delete the PM. But we can do that too if you think it'll work. Past experience says otherwise though.
Some threads are clearer than others why they need to be closed. A thread that has been nothing but bickering for the last 10 pages is pretty obvious when it is closed.
But I see technical and nontechnical threads alike closed for virtually no reason, no note left behind. Not even a clue why they were closed. When something is that vague, it deserves a notice to why the mod/staff felt it needed to be closed and for what purpose, especially if it broke no apparent rule.
But to add to Belmont's complain, the only problem I have with mods/staff here is the obvious variants in how they behave. Some moderators are fair, balanced and reserved. They virtually never have "smart ass" comments to people or make snarky comments. (AC and F2S come to mind) Others always seem to have an attitude and hardly never fail to often be rude to people. But I guess we are all human...
scoutfsu99
02-13-13, 22:08
Acting like a jackass and having a moderator call you on it isn't being rude or snarky IMO. Some are more blunt than others to be sure but I haven't seen one out of line yet. I would also think that repeated instances gives them a short fuse with some people.
Out of everything said in this thread, this should stand out as the most alarming, because its true:
We use to have more SME participation here than on any other site. You see them posting less and less. Wonder why that is.
The only SME I see that posts on a regular basis is LAV, or any IP that is also a moderator here. I see a couple of others every now and then. I used to see much more than that when I first came here.
I haven't seen much of a change in the moderators' attitudes. They haven't changed their approach (not much, anyway) since I've been here. What I have seen is a whole lot of bullshit in the general discussion area due to all the crap going down lately. Tempers are flaring, we're all worried, we're all agitated.
Feel like the discussion is getting too heated? Step away from the thread. Better yet, get off the computer. Go do something to clear your mind. We're all on the same side. Opinions may differ on other things but we all value our 2A rights here. Most of us would get along just fine in person. Treat the other users as though you were standing right in front of them.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=70019
Read it, remember it, internalize it. He sets the standard here, in my opinion.
Belmont31R
02-15-13, 18:39
Negative; that is not what was told to you. You were told that you're attitude was getting old and that you dont call out a mod that had just issued a "calm down or the thread will be locked" warning to everyone in the thread.
Your political beliefs have nothing to do with why you were issued an infraction that resulted in you being banned for several days. It was the bickering/unrespectful nature of your posts and the mod callouts (2x) that dropped you in timeout. So you can drop the "I'm the persecuted libertarian" shtick
A single person has not been singled out in any moderator action taken in recent past that I'm aware of. If you violate the rules, you get an infraction. There are around 10 people that will testify to this since I've hit that many with infractions since the 9th alone.
Funny that the other 2 people I know of who got banned recently had the same line of thought at me, and yet you guys allow a guy like Alaskapopo (a fellow cop for you) to post rude as hell BS like questioning me how someone with my views could have been in the military among other disrespectful crap about the rest of us peeing down our legs while the great heros of LE will save the day for us.
Whatever. My attitude comes from the blatant double standard here, and apparent 'moral equivalence' crap that has closed threads where people are discussing LE topics and some cop comes here claiming we are all cop bashers, and none of them are ever punished for their attitude of 'any negative thing said about any LE in history is cop bashing'. Seems like dropping that bomb just gets a general thread lock but like I said, two other people got banned (one for 'baiting') who hold more like minded views to me.
Since everyone else is throwing around statistics most of the problems in GD are because a ton of people have thin skin, and maybe you guys should tell people to toughen up instead of whining about how hard it is to moderate. If you put so many arbitrary rules in place it's a constant mess of who said what and who got their panties in a bunch no wonder its a PITA. As I said in my PM to you, which you never replied to, I've reported maybe a couple posts on this site since I've been here. We already had people whining about Obama threads, now its cop threads, and even the entire GD. The libertarian in me says 'if you don't like it don't read it'. Instead we have a bunch of whiny babies on the site who hit the report button everytime they don't like what someone said or someone's ego didn't get stroked enough.
Belmont31R
02-15-13, 18:44
I just don't see why people get all worked up over an internet thread anyway. It's just for entertainment and education for Pete's sake. It doesn't change the course of history.
Exactly. I can't imagine having so much emotional attachment to a website people are whining to mods because they got butthurt or whatever. The rules and threads closings are so strict we cannot discuss a single controversial topic without the thread getting closed. Maybe the finer techniques of knitting would be more appropriate for people who can't post in GD without taking things personally. Then the thread closing is usually some smart ass remark about how we are a bunch of immature babies, and I finally said something this time with all the cussing and calling people 'slack jawed douche bags'.
Belmont31R
02-15-13, 18:46
Acting like a jackass and having a moderator call you on it isn't being rude or snarky IMO. Some are more blunt than others to be sure but I haven't seen one out of line yet. I would also think that repeated instances gives them a short fuse with some people.
Out of everything said in this thread, this should stand out as the most alarming, because its true:
Because of GD, way down on the bottom? :rolleyes: I'm on a few forums regulary, and this site's GD is by far the lowest in terms in participation and has by far the most heavy moderation.
I must ask, how many times does the same warning need to be given? Either specifically to one person, or to a group of people?
We killed LE threads, completely, because we were tired of giving the warnings and to save certain people's accounts on our forum, both LE and non-LE.
Fact is, in some cases, I actually agree with the sentiment(s) being espoused in all manner of threads I MUST moderate. I have to moderate them because people are not acting in line with our very, very simple rules. I always love the hate mail I get for those efforts, especially when I am in agreement with the person doing the hating.
If we could count on our esteemed membership to moderate themselves, there would be no contentious issues. Everyone with 200 posts should be well aware of the "line". To have to reiterate the "line" 100 times yields some raw emotion for people who would rather be killing time on the forum than having to work.
Belmont31R
02-15-13, 19:54
I must ask, how many times does the same warning need to be given? Either specifically to one person, or to a group of people?
We killed LE threads, completely, because we were tired of giving the warnings and to save certain people's accounts on our forum, both LE and non-LE.
Fact is, in some cases, I actually agree with the sentiment(s) being espoused in all manner of threads I MUST moderate. I have to moderate them because people are not acting in line with our very, very simple rules. I always love the hate mail I get for those efforts, especially when I am in agreement with the person doing the hating.
If we could count on our esteemed membership to moderate themselves, there would be no contentious issues. Everyone with 200 posts should be well aware of the "line". To have to reiterate the "line" 100 times yields some raw emotion for people who would rather be killing time on the forum than having to work.
If you set the 'bar' so high every controversial topic is eventually locked I think the problem rests with the level of moderation, and also people being whiny. I brought up a few points of my own, not to whine about it, but to express the fact I think there is a double standard here.
I haven't seen anyone banned for dropping the 'cop bashing accusation' bomb in threads yet 2 people of more freedom oriented opinions were banned recently while I can't personally see any reason for it. One of them was 'baiting' (per his banning PM), and yet the 'cop basher bomb accusations' just get a thread lock. Then the next time a cop thread comes up its 'us' who gets the boot.
I am only posting this because this is the comments and suggestions forum. I would like to see GD work better...but if its just a double standard forum then those of us who aren't LEO boot lickers will have to suffer the consequences.
Look...Im not trying to be rude to anyone, and all I want is fair moderation on both sides. If this board is 'no critical opinions of LE' then just say so. This allowing threads to go, and frustrating a lot of us to where we have 'attitudes' is either going to get people banned and cause turmoil. I have gotten a shitton of PM's about what has gone on, and know I am not alone. I even posted in one thread asking people to not quote the jackass who posted an obvious shit post about LE so the thread wouldn't just get locked. I don't want threads to get locked, and just as much as I don't like obvious shit posts about LE I don't like the cop basher bomb to get dropped which gets threads locked.
But like I said we can never discuss a single controversial topic here, and so what are we supposed to talk about? Its been obvious to me for years controversial topics will get a lock...despite all the posts by you guys and so forth. So saying we can discuss them just under the 'rules' is putting a square peg through a round hole. Ain't going to work, and I don't want to see people banned and I don't want to get pissed off over things. I come here because I want to, and I've met some good people on the site.
If the double moderation does continue, and people are banned over it (not saying why I was banned because of it because I intentionally brought up Voodo's comments for a reason)...but the other two, and those are just who I know of, then so be it. I won't lose any sleep, and am giving out my contact information for those who may want to keep in contact. Already have a feeling another issue is being brewed from offsite stuff that is going to leave me a razors edge of discrepancy in my status here.
Give me a number. How many times would you entertain warning the same person/people for the same thing, series of things, or types of things? One time is silly. So is the number two, three, ... seventy-one?
I'm a pretty straight shooter, and believe that sometimes grown men need to be told exactly, and specifically, how they are acting in order to enact the change in behavior required of them. It's not the proper way to do it, but sometimes it needs to be done in lieu of simply removing the problem children from the situation for a period of time. Or in some cases removing them permanently.
I will tell you this, I don't know who all the cops are on the board, and I approve their accounts after vetting. :cool: I don't even consider, for even one millisecond, who might be LE, non-LE or military, or whatever. I look at the scenario based on who is causing the problem. I remove the problem.
That's it. I have considered my actions based on the type of member they are, how many infractions they have in the past, etc. Some people posting today have an account because I, or other mods/staff, argued specifically to keep them around the forums, because they are valuable members who made a mistake, however grievous it was. Sometimes it is the very staff member who issued the infraction who argues to keep the member onboard and not make it an outright ban.
So tell me, how many times is your personal threshold for warning people informally, formally, or otherwise?
Belmont31R
02-15-13, 20:27
My point is that, if EVERY constroversial topic ends up AT LEAST with a thread lock, and quite recently multiple bannings, then what is REAL issue?
Like I said, expecting controversial topics to get discussed without issue isn't going to happen as the vast majority of them get locked. That tells me there is a problem, and we need to ID that problem. If every one of them gets locked....its not the topic per se. Its either because the rules are so stringent or because people are whining, which frustrates you guys, and I can easily see how you guys don't want to deal with that. That's why I commented earlier about whiners, thin skin, and so forth.
I'm not going to comment about how many times people have to be warned or such. Why is there is not a disclaimer on GD that this is a GD forum, and many topics will be discussed, and to not click on a thread if you might be offended? At the same time you guys are telling everyone to act like adults you are doing things like banning Obama threads because a couple people complained about them...thus giving into the whiner category of members.
If people are to be adults, that means personal responsibility, and being able to get intro controversial topics with a skin thicker than 'whiner' status. I'm not asking you about half of what you posted about. I want to debate people, I want clear cut rules, I want fair moderation (albeit limited), and I want mods who close a thread when needed who can do it without using a choice of terminology that if a non-staff member used against another member would get them banned.
Edited clarity. Been typing stuff all day and Im getting lazy.
Cagemonkey
02-15-13, 20:32
Man, I sure hope Army Chief gets better. We sure could use his down to earth nature and wisdom.
Littlelebowski
02-15-13, 20:41
I want GD nuked.
I used to read damn near ever post on here say a year or two ago. Now, I dont read half of them. There are far too many posts that add nothing to the site, and are basically the ramblings of retards that need to go back to arfcom.
Exactly!
There has been an incredible influx of STUPID on this site lately. Before this site went public, it was much better, much tighter core group. Seems we have an incredible amount of.posts asking questions about stuff that's in the stickies or has been asked million times already and the answer can be found with a little effort....
The real issue is that the same people are consistently stepping over the previously established line of what is considered an acceptable debate. After 200 posts, most people have the acceptable "tone" down pat, but some are still struggling after 1000, or more.
In some cases the same people are stepping over an explicit warning line placed in the thread, that things are out of hand. They continue an escalation. They continue with exactly the rhetoric in which they were partaking prior to an explicit staff or moderator warning. Usually with the "they are doing it too" explanation.
You can imagine the frustration of seeing the same names pop up over and over and over for the exact same type of infraction as the last time we discussed it.
I know that if my discussion of 1911's was yielding negative results, to where my posting privileges were in jeopardy, I would approach 1911 discussion with the utmost caution, edit and re-edit a lot, or stay away from it completely.
But SHIVAN, you're speaking common sense. We can't have any of that around here.
Belmont31R
02-15-13, 21:21
Exactly!
There has been an incredible influx of STUPID on this site lately. Before this site went public, it was much better, much tighter core group. Seems we have an incredible amount of.posts asking questions about stuff that's in the stickies or has been asked million times already and the answer can be found with a little effort....
This has been complained about for years.
montanadave
02-15-13, 21:22
There's really no mystery here. Examine the locked threads in GD and look who's pushing the discussion over the cliff. Ninety percent of the time, it's the usual suspects. And the common denominators are either members repeatedly dragging their personal bete noire into every discussion to foment a contentious atmosphere or members with a history of personal animus towards one another jumping each other's shit just for the sake of argument.
Belmont31R
02-15-13, 21:23
The real issue is that the same people are consistently stepping over the previously established line of what is considered an acceptable debate. After 200 posts, most people have the acceptable "tone" down pat, but some are still struggling after 1000, or more.
In some cases the same people are stepping over an explicit warning line placed in the thread, that things are out of hand. They continue an escalation. They continue with exactly the rhetoric in which they were partaking prior to an explicit staff or moderator warning. Usually with the "they are doing it too" explanation.
You can imagine the frustration of seeing the same names pop up over and over and over for the exact same type of infraction as the last time we discussed it.
I know that if my discussion of 1911's was yielding negative results, to where my posting privileges were in jeopardy, I would approach 1911 discussion with the utmost caution, edit and re-edit a lot, or stay away from it completely.
1911's aren't the same thing as politics and government.
I would not expect a technical thread to have the same level of moderation as a a thread on taxes or welfare or law enforcement.
What if we just let GD become unmoderated? A complete wasteland where anything legal (i.e. no child porn) is allowed.
I'd also consider not having GD posts increase your post count and raise the number of posts required to 500.
ETA: This was my 1000th post. wtf.
You can tell by my post count I am fairly new here. I have read a lot of locked threads over the past week and a lot of posts where members are going back and forth at each other.
In my opinion I am a guest of whoever is sponsoring, financing and running this site. If I screw up I expect to get a nasty e-mail from one of the moderators. If I don't like the way it is run, I can go elsewhere.
.46caliber
02-15-13, 21:50
What if we just let GD become unmoderated? A complete wasteland where anything legal (i.e. no child porn) is allowed.
I'd also consider not having GD posts increase your post count and raise the number of posts required to 500.
ETA: This was my 1000th post. wtf.
We did this on a site I used to Admin/Mod in college. It is a multi-edged sword. It solves some challenges but raises others.
I'm too new to have a good understanding of the culture at M4C and whether or not it would fit well. I do know this though, it can strain and break relations with site sponsors and industry reps.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
Dummies get banned from forums all the time. More mod or less mod will not change bad intentions, low levels of common sense and a general feeling of entitlement to say what they feel they have a right to say.
I typically just stay away from threads where people don't know how to act. I read the inflammatory threads only to find I'm not any smarter when I get to the end. :D
Belmont31R
02-15-13, 23:03
Cop basher 'jbt' bomb dropped again: https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1550221&postcount=191
DiabhailGadhar
02-15-13, 23:22
not that I even remotely want my name even brought up in this as i love it here. I would like to add a couple of small life lesson that I fortunately learned early on in the Corps and maybe will help.
1. Pick your battles wisely; small enough to win, big enough to matter.
2. If the person that your fighting with out ranks you (or holds a superior billet ie...MOD/STAFF in our example ) agree to disagree SHUT THE **** UP, smile, say thank you and carry on smartly. From this learn one of two things..either they're a dumb ass and refer to #1 or youre a dumbass and its time to just trust their experience/wisdom.
semper fi,
nick
not that I even remotely want my name even brought up in this as i love it here. I would like to add a couple of small life lesson that I fortunately learned early on in the Corps and maybe will help.
1. Pick your battles wisely; small enough to win, big enough to matter.
2. If the person that your fighting with out ranks you (or holds a superior billet ie...MOD/STAFF in our example ) agree to disagree SHUT THE **** UP, smile, say thank you and carry on smartly. From this learn one of two things..either they're a dumb ass and refer to #1 or youre a dumbass and its time to just trust their experience/wisdom.
semper fi,
nick
I get suckered into debates all the time, lately in GD here. It's the lawyer side of me I think, but it's tempered by the military side of me.
Although there are many le/mil here, I don't think respectful disagreement with Mods/Staff/etc is a necessarily a bad thing. They're human too and can have their opinion, as can you.
Also:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png
Belmont31R
02-15-13, 23:36
not that I even remotely want my name even brought up in this as i love it here. I would like to add a couple of small life lesson that I fortunately learned early on in the Corps and maybe will help.
1. Pick your battles wisely; small enough to win, big enough to matter.
2. If the person that your fighting with out ranks you (or holds a superior billet ie...MOD/STAFF in our example ) agree to disagree SHUT THE **** UP, smile, say thank you and carry on smartly. From this learn one of two things..either they're a dumb ass and refer to #1 or youre a dumbass and its time to just trust their experience/wisdom.
semper fi,
nick
My mom used to tell me how stubborn I was, and that can work in good ways too. I can be the best friend or worst enemy.
DiabhailGadhar
02-15-13, 23:39
I get suckered into debates all the time, lately in GD here. It's the lawyer side of me I think, but it's tempered by the military side of me.
Also:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png
amen...when I get pissed at some of the dumb shit I either A. PM said douchebag.. tell them why I think they're stupid kinda tactfully at first so not everyone has to deal with my lack of filter or B. I write a long response saying everything that pops in my sick evil F'd up mind, wait a bit (sometimes a day) and then delete all the parts I know are going to get me potentially told to pack sand from m4. I mean hell I think I might have made it to 27 posts on sigforum before getting banned permanently for doing B minus the editing...lol.
thank god for all those NCO's and SNCO's telling me to shut up and then making me learn the hard way that I have two ears and one mouth for a reason...even though I forget some times still. :D
S/F
scoutfsu99
02-16-13, 03:22
The same screen names pop up time after time for the same reasons. Why is that?
http://SSEquine.net/internet2.jpg
Littlelebowski
02-16-13, 11:02
Cop basher 'jbt' bomb dropped again: https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1550221&postcount=191
You should find another forum or stop complaining. No matter how shrill you get, you're not going to change anything. I know you won't listen and you will continue complaining, so have fun being banned eventually.
Failure2Stop
02-16-13, 11:09
http://SSEquine.net/internet2.jpg
Absolutely brilliant.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Was a member of a firearms forum awhile back that had an unmoderated, anything goes, you're an adult so you can be trusted to act accordingly, GD forum. Within a week it turned into a free for all. Insults hurled, threats given, sides chosen, etc. Didn't matter what the topic of the post was. In a short time, it would spiral out of control. Usually initiated by the usual "Senior Members" who had their own cliques. They would join the melee and when the dust settled, the thread was unrecognizable. Numerous attempts by newer members to try and smooth the waters were greeted with, "Stay in your lane", "If you don't like it, don't come here", "Use your Ignore List", etc. Occasionally a Mod would intervene and plead for the "Boys" to cool it. Things would get back to some semblance of normalcy for a week, and then it would start all over again. You couldn't always tell when a thread was going to go south from the gitgo. Many a time an interesting thread would go on it's merrily way for a few pages, and then BAM! All of a sudden you realized your were in an ambush or a crossfire. This went on for months. Members left, and so did commercial sponsors. Even though the rest of the forum kept it's nose clean, sponsors didn't want to be associated with a forum that couldn't keep their house in order. Just that one subforum gave the rest of the forum a bad rep.
Then came a new site owner/admin and he followed the "Teddy Roosevelt Rule of Order", "Speak softly and carry a big stick". He shut down the GD section for six months. Warned members not to carry their style of "discussion" into the other subforums lest they suffer his wrath. He didn't **** around either. First infraction led to a permanent ban. He figured you were warned once already as a whole when he took over. The usual suspects naturally pled their case. How restrictions were unnecessary, we were all big boys, why people shouldn't get all butt hurt over some verbal jousting, that civil discussion was good for all, like minded individuals should be allowed to express themselves, yada, yada. He stood his ground and for six months things went along smoothly. And so did the ban hammer! Some people just couldn't or wouldn't heed his warning. They were quickly sent packing. The kingdom was happy again. Sponsors came back, members came back. After six months he opened up GD with the warning, "No discussion of politics,religion, and sex". This was his playground, his rules, his hammer. Yes, you walked softly over there, and so does everyone else. Forums need benevolent dictators to maintain order. The troublemakers no matter how much they contribute are still troublemakers. They're cancerous and leave a path of destruction under the smokescreen of good intentions. An unmoderated GD is a recipe for disaster. You might as well shut it down and save yourself a lot of grief.
montanadave
02-16-13, 11:50
http://SSEquine.net/internet2.jpg
That is SUCH a gross generalization.
I look at porn once in awhile, too. :o
montanadave
02-16-13, 11:53
Was a member of a firearms forum awhile back that had an unmoderated, anything goes, you're an adult so you can be trusted to act accordingly, GD forum. Within a week it turned into a free for all. Insults hurled, threats given, sides chosen, etc. Didn't matter what the topic of the post was. In a short time, it would spiral out of control. Usually initiated by the usual "Senior Members" who had their own cliques. They would join the melee and when the dust settled, the thread was unrecognizable. Numerous attempts by newer members to try and smooth the waters were greeted with, "Stay in your lane", "If you don't like it, don't come here", "Use your Ignore List", etc. Occasionally a Mod would intervene and plead for the "Boys" to cool it. Things would get back to some semblance of normalcy for a week, and then it would start all over again. You couldn't always tell when a thread was going to go south from the gitgo. Many a time an interesting thread would go on it's merrily way for a few pages, and then BAM! All of a sudden you realized your were in an ambush or a crossfire. This went on for months. Members left, and so did commercial sponsors. Even though the rest of the forum kept it's nose clean, sponsors didn't want to be associated with a forum that couldn't keep their house in order. Just that one subforum gave the rest of the forum a bad rep.
Then came a new site owner/admin and he followed the "Teddy Roosevelt Rule of Order", "Speak softly and carry a big stick". He shut down the GD section for six months. Warned members not to carry their style of "discussion" into the other subforums lest they suffer his wrath. He didn't **** around either. First infraction led to a permanent ban. He figured you were warned once already as a whole when he took over. The usual suspects naturally pled their case. How restrictions were unnecessary, we were all big boys, why people shouldn't get all butt hurt over some verbal jousting, that civil discussion was good for all, like minded individuals should be allowed to express themselves, yada, yada. He stood his ground and for six months things went along smoothly. And so did the ban hammer! Some people just couldn't or wouldn't heed his warning. They were quickly sent packing. The kingdom was happy again. Sponsors came back, members came back. After six months he opened up GD with the warning, "No discussion of politics,religion, and sex". This was his playground, his rules, his hammer. Yes, you walked softly over there, and so does everyone else. Forums need benevolent dictators to maintain order. The troublemakers no matter how much they contribute are still troublemakers. They're cancerous and leave a path of destruction under the smokescreen of good intentions. An unmoderated GD is a recipe for disaster. You might as well shut it down and save yourself a lot of grief.
Exactly the same scenario played out on an automotive forum I frequent with identical results.
So now we are cherry picking people's responses to show how they respond after being singled out.
If a response from a debater includes "you should", "you are", etc. You can expect that the contrary side of the debate will immediately take that personally, and some might view it as an "attack".
You know why all the threads degrade? There are very specific members who can not, for the life of them, keep things from being personal while discussing things that don't need to be personal.
Belmont31R
02-16-13, 16:13
So now we are cherry picking people's responses to show how they respond after being singled out.
If a response from a debater includes "you should", "you are", etc. You can expect that the contrary side of the debate will immediately take that personally, and some might view it as an "attack".
You know why all the threads degrade? There are very specific members who can not, for the life of them, keep things from being personal while discussing things that don't need to be personal.
No its a common thing that happens, and yet I've yet to see anyone 'punished over it' yet Irish was banned for 'baiting'. Double standard.
At any rate I didn't know the LEO's sensitivities were so high that it now MY FAULT I get accused of being a cop basher for pointing out that if someone is unhappy with their employment they can get a job somewhere else. Oh my gosh these tough guys that run to gun fire while we running away with pee down our legs can't be told to go find another job. :rolleyes:
Interesting way of explaining things...
NCPatrolAR
02-16-13, 17:52
There is no double standard. LEO members are given infractions just the same as non-LEOs. And Irish was hit with a ban because he accumulated enough infractions to meet the ban threshold.
No its a common thing that happens, and yet I've yet to see anyone 'punished over it' yet Irish was banned for 'baiting'. Double standard.
At any rate I didn't know the LEO's sensitivities were so high that it now MY FAULT I get accused of being a cop basher for pointing out that if someone is unhappy with their employment they can get a job somewhere else. Oh my gosh these tough guys that run to gun fire while we running away with pee down our legs can't be told to go find another job. :rolleyes:
Interesting way of explaining things...
Still ironic that you want everyone else to thicken their skin and yet are complaining that your sensibilities are chaffed over certain things in the way the site is moderated.
Can I suggest you thicken your skin as you require of everyone else, or will that be met with indignity too?
Belmont31R
02-16-13, 18:04
Still ironic that you want everyone else to thicken their skin and yet are complaining that your sensibilities are chaffed over certain things in the way the site is moderated.
Can I suggest you thicken your skin as you require of everyone else, or will that be met with indignity too?
All I've said is I want fair moderation. Irish was banned for baiting yet you allow the members who happen to be LEO's accuse people of things left and right, question how they could have been in the military, and post comments like how non-LEO pee their pants.
I don't have a problem with it until I see the other side of the fence get banned while LEO members post seemingly whatever they want without any specific comment, and there seems to be some moral equivalence being assumed between what I mentioned and how the libertarian crew view things.
I have a plenty thick enough skin...However you can't expect me not to complain about one sided moderation. I was banned for insulting a mod...Irish was banned for baiting...turretgunner was banned for what? My PM box is blowing up, and Grant is PM'ing me about not doing him any favors. Geez....
I've read a few posts in GD and thought, "I'd like to post a comment on this subject", but can't because I haven't reached the minimum post count. I'm okay with that because it is a clearly stated rule and it is most likely there for what the staff thinks is a good reason.
There are clearly stated rules for posting on any thread on M4C and there is also AC's "The Good, The Bad, The Ugly" which should probably be required reading for every member on this forum before being allowed to post anywhere.
I tend to have a strong libertarian slant and can understand some individuals' point of view that grown adults should be allowed to discuss anything they choose and that freedom of speech pretty much eliminates the possibility of being free from being offended by something another person says. That said, just because you have the right to say or do something doesn't mean you necessarily should in every instance.
I've noticed that just about everyone on this forum advocates personal responsibilty. This is to be expected on any firearms related forum. What I cannot understand is individuals who I suspect would exercise the utmost prudence in the handling of firearms fail to do so in the actual things they say or in the obvious tone of what they say.
I won't say that I have never put my foot in my mouth by making a statement that I didn't fully think through beforehand, but I have always tried to remember something my pawpaw taught me many years ago; Always make sure your brain is running before you put your mouth in gear. He was a man of uncommon common sense and a math wiz to boot. Not bad for a guy that had to quit school before finishing 7th grade.
I don't necessarily think nuking GD is the way to go, but would understand if the staff did so. In some ways it would be a loss to the site while in others, well, not so much.
If everyone would conduct themselves in GD as they would if they were in a face to face discussion most of the issues the mods have had would go away. The reality is that just as there are always going to be folks who can't have a polite discussion in a public setting; there will likewise be folks who can't have one in an internet forum. Those individuals can always be dealt with accordingly on an individual basis and there really isn't a need to "take the ball home" and keep everyone else from playing nice.
That's my 2 cents anyway. Have a nice day.
Lobo
montanadave
02-16-13, 18:08
This thread is a case study in recalcitrance.
I'm getting an increasingly clear picture of how this thread is going to end.
Belmont31R
02-16-13, 18:16
I'm getting an increasingly clear picture of how this thread is going to end.
Hows that? I want you to paint me a picture....:D
montanadave
02-16-13, 18:16
I'm getting an increasingly clear picture of how this thread is going to end.
No spoilers! :stop:
You'll ruin it for the rest of us. :lol:
Belmont31R
02-16-13, 18:16
No spoilers! :stop:
You'll ruin it for the rest of us. :lol:
How's the popcorn in the stands? Hopefully its kettle corn!
montanadave
02-16-13, 18:22
How's the popcorn in the stands? Hopefully its kettle corn!
Just polishing off a pretty decent chocolate chip cookie my better half brought home from work.
But let me know if things are gettin' ready to heat up and I'll go pop a batch. :laugh:
All I've said is I want fair moderation.
No problem. I will make it "fair", across the board. Step over the line. Infraction. I will also request no more thread clean ups with free "get out of jail" edits that have saved plenty of accounts.
"Fair" is not going to be less moderation, I assure you. "Fair" will yield more interaction with moderators and staff. You know why? We've told everyone what we expect, in explicitly specific language, and yet certain people refuse to embrace that as the norm and self-moderate to keep harmony. Being "right" is more important than being able to post tomorrow.
So here's the hook, I would highly suggest people refrain from using "you", "your", "you're", etc when the debate gets heated. The minute I see a debate attack an individual position, I will assign an infraction. The minute I perceive that a lack of respectful discourse is taking place between one or more people, those people will get an infraction.
No one wanted that type of mod/staff interaction, but since we are being accused of being unfair there is only one solution:
Issue all merited infractions until the problems are self-eliminated from our forum.
I know that since we will not let the threads come to head, no more moderators will be mean in closing a thread, and the act of name calling will likely disappear entirely.
What will not be solved is that everyone will claim that the actual "fair" moderation is heavy-handed, mean, and that we should thicken our skin as mods and staff. You see, we can't win in this regard.
I would say let's have a response vote....everyone in favor of my newly suggested approach? Everyone opposed?
Speak now....
montanadave
02-16-13, 19:09
I don't have a dog in this fight, but the policy outlined suits me fine.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but the policy outlined suits me fine.
So to clarify, the "new way" would be fine?
montanadave
02-16-13, 19:28
So to clarify, the "new way" would be fine?
It's fine with me. Frankly, I'm rather intrigued to see how it plays out. It'll be M4C's own little experiment in operant conditioning. :secret:
Littlelebowski
02-16-13, 19:31
I would prefer rob_s screaming at people in AR threads over these people that have been permitted to stay and **** up GD. At least Rob added to the site.
Nuke GD.
SWATcop556
02-16-13, 20:08
Oh I'm all in.
I was actually surprised that mods here edit posts and didn't give infractions at the same time. So I'm all for it.
This would be interesting to see, and I'm curious of the outcome.
No problem. Your house......your rules.
montanadave
02-16-13, 20:31
Oh I'm all in.
Why do I have this mental picture of Mr. Burns on The Simpsons rubbing his hands together and muttering, "Excellent"? :laugh:
Belmont31R
02-16-13, 20:32
So to clarify, the "new way" would be fine?
Fair is fair. I just think 'you' and its variants is :rolleyes: since that's how English speakers communicate. I don't want to resort to referring to myself in the 3rd party. I really don't like that or using it on other people.
How about no more 'leo basher bombs', no more non-cops pee down their legs comments and you can ban anyone who posts an bash against all LE. Seems like a perfect 50/50 solution.
In my opinion, FWIW, this is an excellent idea.
scoutfsu99
02-16-13, 20:49
Why do I have this mental picture of Mr. Burns on The Simpsons rubbing his hands together and muttering, "Excellent"? :laugh:
I know, right? I'm all for it but its a shame we have to operate at the level of lowest common denominator.
Shivan, I don't think hardly anyone will complain of "fair" moderation that you propose will be heavy handed. With the number of active members in this forum, I'd be surprised if more than 5% would complain. I believe that the vast majority of members conduct themselves within the rules of the forum all the time. I can't see them having a problem with it. So there is a "win" side. If there's a "problem child" who can't or won't conduct themselves accordingly in GD, which is pretty much the single largest source of discontent, then ban them from posting in GD. They can contribute if they choose to do so in all of the other sub-forums but not in GD. If they bring the same discontent/disrespect to the other sub-forums, then "BAM", off with their heads permanently.
So to clarify, the "new way" would be fine?
My vote, for whatever it's worth, is "new way". It does become tiresome watching the same old fight with a slightly different odor in every other GD thread.
Alaskapopo
02-16-13, 20:55
I think the moderators are doing a hard job for free and doing a good job at it. I have recieved infractions when I earned them. This forum does not tolerate a lot of the BS you see on other sites and for that I am very grateful. I also think that we all need to make an effort to not make things personal or take them personally.
Pat
I know, right? I'm all for it but its a shame we have to operate at the level of lowest common denominator.
I don't think we're operating at the lowest but at the highest common denominator. The proposal will not effect the huge number of members who act according to the rules of the forum in the least. It deals with those few, those precious few, that can't/won't abide by those rules. Those that represent the lowest common denominator. To the proposal put forth, I say bring it on. The sooner the better. So that the Kingdom can rejoice and goodwill towards men and women will once again be the law of the land.
MountainRaven
02-16-13, 22:57
Damn the whingers, full fairness ahead!
If it doesn't work, we can go back to square one and plot a new new way.
No problem. I will make it "fair", across the board. Step over the line. Infraction. I will also request no more thread clean ups with free "get out of jail" edits that have saved plenty of accounts.
"Fair" is not going to be less moderation, I assure you. "Fair" will yield more interaction with moderators and staff. You know why? We've told everyone what we expect, in explicitly specific language, and yet certain people refuse to embrace that as the norm and self-moderate to keep harmony. Being "right" is more important than being able to post tomorrow.
So here's the hook, I would highly suggest people refrain from using "you", "your", "you're", etc when the debate gets heated. The minute I see a debate attack an individual position, I will assign an infraction. The minute I perceive that a lack of respectful discourse is taking place between one or more people, those people will get an infraction.
No one wanted that type of mod/staff interaction, but since we are being accused of being unfair there is only one solution:
Issue all merited infractions until the problems are self-eliminated from our forum.
I know that since we will not let the threads come to head, no more moderators will be mean in closing a thread, and the act of name calling will likely disappear entirely.
What will not be solved is that everyone will claim that the actual "fair" moderation is heavy-handed, mean, and that we should thicken our skin as mods and staff. You see, we can't win in this regard.
I would say let's have a response vote....everyone in favor of my newly suggested approach? Everyone opposed?
Speak now....
I oppose. And I oppose because, as an adult, I choose whether or not to engage in a spirited altercation or debate. I can certainly choose non participation or always have the ignore option. I've used both in the past. Personally, I think a percentage of what's said in GD or even in random threads outside of there is done with little thought, foresight and even less common sense, but that's just my opinion. I think it's a very small percentage of members and I think some members are overly aggressive. But again, I'm an adult. I can simply ignore them. I choose to participate in threads that are more like three years ago where we exchange ideas or points of view. The last couple of pages of the Costa M&P thread are a perfect example of this. If it turned into a train wreck, I would simply stop participating because I can. So, the rules as they are, in my opinion, work pretty well. And you and the other mods/staff generally do a pretty good job. I will say I miss AC and his style though. So, to me, the key word here is choice. And no forum, including M4C, is worth getting upset about.
DiabhailGadhar
02-17-13, 00:50
After re-reading this entire thread here is my 2 cents...if the new rules help out the mods/staff then I'm cool with it. However, I've about had it with a individual/s dicking with the world around the mass of us, due to the fews lack of ability to cope..hell there's arfcom and pen island for that crap. I would at least hope that the majority of us here see this crap and just steer clear or take the issue off line..ie PM's.. and address the issue directly there. Not give in to the ignorance and dog pile a landmine for no reason. I agree with Shivan, I don't think this is going to solve the problem merely change it giving the staff here a whole new form of headache.
Furthermore I haven't seen one closed thread yet that I couldn't, in short order, figure out why it was closed. Either it got stupid or someone didn't search and add to a previous thread. Now to be honest I don't mess with GD that much because if I want to have a GD I own a cell phone and have those discussions elsewhere. If people are getting banned its PAINFULLY OBVIOUS that they REPEATEDLY did dumb shit. If those people are spoken to harshly well guess what...pain retains..if my 2 year old daughter tries to stick a fork in a light socket I don't tell her please stop I smack her paw.
maybe I'm just rambling but I would think that this a gun forum...grow up, nut up, or shut up and go elsewhere...you wont be missed..
last thing.. I didn't know the mods/staff did this for free THATS BAD ASS and I sincerely want to thank you all for your time and effort! especially IG who on more then one occasion has steered me away from my own stupidity, you're an evil bastard and I got nothin' but respect for ya!
Nuke GD.
Nah, just make members with access to the GD buy some:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/17/u3aja6yb.jpg
LEOs, non-LEOs alike
I would prefer rob_s screaming at people in AR threads over these people that have been permitted to stay and **** up GD. At least Rob added to the site.
Nuke GD.
I always got the idea rob wanted to run the site. Looks like someone is trying to take his place in this thread.
Littlelebowski
02-17-13, 06:14
I always got the idea rob wanted to run the site. Looks like someone is trying to take his place in this thread.
Damnit, you've exposed my evil plan!
Anyway, my point is that at least rob bitched about gun and shooting related topics. Here we have how many pages complaining about how it just isn't fair.
Damnit, you've exposed my evil plan!
Anyway, my point is that at least rob bitched about gun and shooting related topics. Here we have how many pages complaining about how it just isn't fair.
Wasn't meaning you.
And I'm surprised it's lasted this long.
And since this is the general complaint thread, I had to pay $186 per 1080 tin of 5.45 yesterday because I felt the need to hoard.
Littlelebowski
02-17-13, 06:51
Wasn't meaning you.
And I'm surprised it's lasted this long.
And since this is the general complaint thread, I had to pay $186 per 1080 tin of 5.45 yesterday because I felt the need to hoard.
Solid copy.
Yeah, amazing that the mods are putting up with this bitching.
I assure you all that we were far more strict in the earlier days. That yielded many requests for being more lenient, and more fair to discussions. So we adapted to a broader audience, and made it fair so that all sides could operate under our rules.
Now we have this newest request for fairness. So the site really can't win.
I believe we are going to continue on our current path, but will certainly continue to allow the airing of "grievances". Even if they are not acted on directly.
I will promise this, if people can not refrain from making discussions personally directed "attacks" and keep them respectful, they will not be here. The trick there is that the site staff and moderators decide "respectful" and "personal". So plan accordingly.
Littlelebowski
02-17-13, 14:50
I remember the days when I thought this place was too dry, too technical, not "fun" enough.
Two Failure2Stop classes, two Vickers classes, one pistol-training class, and 2 Defoor classes later, I ****ing miss that M4C of old. I remember when I was totally ****ed up on painkillers after a bone graft and I floated out a fairly stupid idea. A former mod here asked what I was planning to get of said idea and have I tried this technique? Guess what, learning occurred. Don't see much of that nowadays since the mods are busy dealing with people in slap fights reporting each other.
You guys whining about shit going in GD would be better served with offtopic.com or your own "let's complain about everything that pisses us off" chatroom. Try Google Hangout. Or go shooting and talk about that on here. There is no point in bitching about a privately owned forum and you don't have a leg to stand on anyway if all you do it bitch and argue on here instead of talking about guns and shooting. You know, adding to the community instead of turning every GD thread you are involved with into a feces throwing flame fest that would not go down that way in real life?
Nevermind, stupid tapatalk
Why do I have this mental picture of Mr. Burns on The Simpsons rubbing his hands together and muttering, "Excellent"? :laugh:
That is funny as hell Dave!
FWIW - I try hard not to get into pissing contests with people. It accomplishes absolutely nothing.
People just need to be fair and respectful, mods and members alike. Alot to ask I know.
I got no problem with the way things are handled here. It's not my house and not my rules.
After re-reading this entire thread here is my 2 cents...if the new rules help out the mods/staff then I'm cool with it.
What he said in #97
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