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View Full Version : who makes factory 6.5 guns?



Ring
02-13-13, 07:07
260/creedmore..

anyone other then savage?

taliv
02-13-13, 08:10
JP rifles makes an amazingly accurate 260 gas and bolt gun
DPMS chambers their AR10 platform in 260 from the factory
Accuracy International sells their AW and AX in 260 from the factory and they use bartlein barrels.

fallenromeo
02-13-13, 17:22
DTA makes a .260 also.

orkan
02-13-13, 17:50
DTA makes a .260 also. Lets not forget 6.5 creedmoor and 6.5x284 as well.

Obviously the DTA rifles will be excessively accurate, and I'd be happy to put one in your hands.

jvencius
02-13-13, 18:43
Sako makes a nifty 6.5x55 (the Model 85) if you're willing to look at other cartridges than the .260 but with that bore diameter...

fallenromeo
02-14-13, 10:01
Lets not forget 6.5 creedmoor and 6.5x284 as well.

Obviously the DTA rifles will be excessively accurate, and I'd be happy to put one in your hands.

Doesn't DTA also do a 6.5 Lapua?

Ring
02-14-13, 11:03
ok, lets clarify this... who make3 6.5 bolt guns that are under 1200$ for new shooters.

i got a bunch of guys at work that want to get into long range and all are on a budget :)

jvencius
02-14-13, 14:16
Do they have some philosophical opposition to .308? Sure, 6.5 performance within certain envelopes eclipses that of the .308 but if budget is a concern for new shooters, wouldn't it make sense to go with a little less-sexy cartridge that has a lot more options available for ammo loads (and possibly rifles available on the secondary market)?

orkan
02-14-13, 14:34
Do they have some philosophical opposition to .308? Sure, 6.5 performance within certain envelopes eclipses that of the .308 but if budget is a concern for new shooters, wouldn't it make sense to go with a little less-sexy cartridge that has a lot more options available for ammo loads (and possibly rifles available on the secondary market)? You sir, are making ENTIRELY too much sense. ;)

You sure as hell don't need a 6.5 to learn long range. Point in fact, the 308 is a much better teacher than any of the 6.5's.

rudy99
02-14-13, 15:40
I'm limited on experience with this topic, but I've talked (live, not on the interwebs) quite a bit with those who are highly ranked in the precision rifle series. Their recommendation for me was, if you don't reload 6.5 Creedmoor is probably the best option for a long range caliber. Hornady makes a great cartridge for this round and you can sell your brass to a reloader to get money back on ammo investment. I was also informed that none of the top shooters in major long-range tactical type matches shoot 308.

They did follow that up by recommending that I get a Surgeon action and build something off that, however that is out of my budget for something that would be a 3rd or 4th-line hobby. One guy did admit that Savage has come a long way over the years and really isn't as bad of a rifle as some people make out.

From my research about a year ago, Savage was the only rifle maker that has a factory 6.5 creedmoor rifle. They have lightweight models and something in the long range precision category with a heavy barrel, etc that will run around the $1,000 mark.

With all this said, I'll probably end up going with a 308 as the primary bolt gun (for a variety of other reasons) and consider a 6.5 caliber as a secondary.

orkan
02-14-13, 15:47
I'm limited on experience with this topic, but I've talked (live, not on the interwebs) quite a bit with those who are highly ranked in the precision rifle series. Their recommendation for me was, if you don't reload 6.5 Creedmoor is probably the best option for a long range caliber. They are competitors.

They aren't there to learn. They are there to win.

If you want to learn, a 308 will let you learn more than a 6.5 creedmoor. If you want to win, then a 6.5 creedmoor will help you win more than a 308.

It's an important distinction. One that is often overlooked by those recommending what new shooters should be buying.

rudy99
02-14-13, 16:05
They are competitors.

They aren't there to learn. They are there to win.

If you want to learn, a 308 will let you learn more than a 6.5 creedmoor. If you want to win, then a 6.5 creedmoor will help you win more than a 308.

It's an important distinction. One that is often overlooked by those recommending what new shooters should be buying.

Ah, well that is a fair point. Once again the mission drives the gear. I had the wrong mission.

gunrunner505
02-14-13, 16:10
You can get the GA Precision GAP10 in 260 Rem. I think they will chamber all their stuff in it if you special order it.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

JohnnyC
02-14-13, 21:05
They are competitors.

They aren't there to learn. They are there to win.

If you want to learn, a 308 will let you learn more than a 6.5 creedmoor. If you want to win, then a 6.5 creedmoor will help you win more than a 308.

It's an important distinction. One that is often overlooked by those recommending what new shooters should be buying.

This, over and over again.

Vic303
02-14-13, 21:47
CZ 550 in 6.5x55 Swede
Rem Mod 7 in .260Rem
Savage makes a number of options in .260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmore
Tikka has made rifles in 6.5x55Swede. I am not certain they are still importing that caliber though.

All of the above retail for less than $750, with most of them under $600. Now, they are not setup as "tactical precision" rifles, but it would sure give you options to consider, and calibers to experiment with, and not break the bank.

Maineshooter
02-14-13, 21:52
ok, lets clarify this... who make3 6.5 bolt guns that are under 1200$ for new shooters.

i got a bunch of guys at work that want to get into long range and all are on a budget :)

Buy a used action and re-barrel it for the caliber of choice. If you are going to be doing a lot or range work and are willing to learn, handloading will make the most of your rifle.

I know you asked for gun makers other than Savage, but they are worth a look. They make great barrels. I have a Savage bolt gun that was originally a .25-06 and it was re-barreled for .260 rem. The gun is a serious tack driver.

If I were looking for an out of the box .260 for a decent price, I would seriously consider the Model10/110 Predator Hunter Max 1. MSRP is about $975.

orkan
02-15-13, 08:19
They make great barrels. The guys I talked to two days ago that had three separate 110's which looked like they were rifled with a hand drill, might disagree with you. ;)

Maineshooter
02-15-13, 09:46
The guys I talked to two days ago that had three separate 110's which looked like they were rifled with a hand drill, might disagree with you. ;)

New production rifles? That's a little troubling. The only Savage I actually own has a custom barrel. I did some shooting with a .308 10 fp made about 3 years ago I was very impressed with. It was a factory rifle with the HS Precision stock. Two dealers I know swear by them. That being said, most of the Savage rifles I have played with have the heavier barrel profiles. I really like the Accutrigger as well.

Sent from my XT881 using Tapatalk 2

orkan
02-15-13, 09:56
New production rifles? Yup, new. They bought two, BOTH were jacked up. Took them both back, and one of the others they got back was also jacked up. They were pretty close in serial number, so I'm betting there are a good deal of them out there like that.

... and of course dealers like savages. They are cheap to buy, with decent margin, so they fly off the shelves.

We're a dealer... and the only savage I stock is a mark 2 TR which we cut to 16" and thread. Great trainer rifle. As for the centerfire savages? I'll gladly let someone else do that.

TriviaMonster
02-19-13, 03:29
I would agree with Orkan there too. The last Savage I took a hard look at for a friend didn't need to be mic'd to show the barrel was bent. I wouldn't put money on it hitting the broad side of a barn. It was sent back by the dealer that afternoon. It was so bent it was almost cartoonish looking on the wall.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Ring
02-19-13, 04:58
308 factory ammo may be cheaper... But reloading 260 is cheaper...

orkan
02-19-13, 08:56
Maybe... maybe not. All depends on what deals you stumble on.

They are so close in price that you can't make a statement saying one is cheaper than the other. If you are talking strictly about powder charge... I'm sure the 2 cents you save isn't really worth talking about.

BsideTX
02-26-13, 11:50
Do they have some philosophical opposition to .308? Sure, 6.5 performance within certain envelopes eclipses that of the .308 but if budget is a concern for new shooters, wouldn't it make sense to go with a little less-sexy cartridge that has a lot more options available for ammo loads (and possibly rifles available on the secondary market)?

I do have one point of contention with this -- 6.5/.260 ammo is pretty easy to find/reload for right now (outside of primers). Good luck finding .308 though. What you can find has the price driven up considerably by demand -- past 6.5 in most cases.

orkan
02-26-13, 11:53
That is a very temporary situation... which will be applied to 6.5's a hell of a lot more than 308's as time passes.

BsideTX
02-26-13, 11:59
I agree this will be a temporary situation, but it may take half a year for all of this to sort itself out (and then what if there's another panic?).

There's something to be said, I think, for shooting something other than the most popular calibers out there.

orkan
02-26-13, 12:13
There's something to be said, I think, for shooting something other than the most popular calibers out there. Isn't that like cutting off the head to cure the headache?

They are popular for a reason. They work. Pure and simple.

The solution is not to go get yourself a rifle chambered in non-standard, unpopular, or otherwise unproven cartridges to avoid the "panic" crunch. The solution is to be forward looking enough to stock up on items you need, so when the crunch hits, you won't be effected as much.

Besides, you are very much overestimating the supply of 6.5 creedmoor. Very few places have it. Matter of fact, can you show me an online retailer that has 140 Amax match loading in stock?

6.5 creedmoor is having a great deal of success generating a following, and for good reason. As a result, it is just as affected by the ammo shortage as any other popular cartridge.

All ammo is in high demand right now. Nothing is excluded, with the exception of exceedingly obscure cartridges which no one is really shooting.

BsideTX
02-26-13, 12:32
Isn't that like cutting off the head to cure the headache?

They are popular for a reason. They work. Pure and simple.

The solution is not to go get yourself a rifle chambered in non-standard, unpopular, or otherwise unproven cartridges to avoid the "panic" crunch. The solution is to be forward looking enough to stock up on items you need, so when the crunch hits, you won't be effected as much.

Besides, you are very much overestimating the supply of 6.5 creedmoor. Very few places have it. Matter of fact, can you show me an online retailer that has 140 Amax match loading in stock?

6.5 creedmoor is having a great deal of success generating a following, and for good reason. As a result, it is just as affected by the ammo shortage as any other popular cartridge.

All ammo is in high demand right now. Nothing is excluded, with the exception of exceedingly obscure cartridges which no one is really shooting.

I don't see how that analogy works?

It's not like 6.5C/.260/etc are bad or less capable cartridges than .308. For some applications, they're better, for some worse.

I'm not going to search around for the 140gr, but finding a 120 loading in stock is easy (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/617294/hornady-superformance-ammunition-65-creedmoor-120-grain-gilding-metal-expanding-boat-tail-box-of-20)

There is almost no stock of .308 in any loading though. That which you can find is as at least expensive as 6.5C anyway (which at least is match grade by in large).

I'm not saying shoot a wildcat, I'm saying look at shelves full of .30-06, .270, 7mm, .243 and non .30cal bullets at your local gun store and consider that there are plenty of capable cartridges out there.

orkan
02-26-13, 12:43
there are plenty of capable cartridges out there. I wasn't saying there wasn't.

I'm saying people shouldn't make their chambering choices based on what ammo is available during a panic. The choice should be made based upon the intended use of the rifle.

BsideTX
02-26-13, 12:54
I'm saying people shouldn't make their chambering choices based on what ammo is available during a panic.


And maybe we're talking past each other a bit here, because that's definitely not what I said.

orkan
02-26-13, 13:10
And maybe we're talking past each other a bit here Fairly common thing on forums I think. ;)

What you are saying is that 308 ammo is not available, and 6.5 is... so as a result 6.5 should be maybe be considered over the 308. Yes?

If so, that program fails to recognize that the 6.5 ammo will soon dry up as well, and with 308 being the more heavily sold of the two, 308 will become available and likely stay that way, while 6.5 could have a lasting famine.

This is what has happened in the past, and what will play out again, so long as 308 maintains its popularity. (...and it will)

BsideTX
02-26-13, 15:03
That's not really it. It's that the statement of .308 being universally more available isn't necessarily true, and this was a case in point. I don't remember 2008 being quite as bad, but there were, at minimum, local ammo shortages for .308 then as well.

My point isn't that 6.5 is going to be very available, but that .308 (along with .223 and 9mm) is going to disappear first in the event of another demand spike.

Go take a look around your LGS, look at what you find in stock (let me guess: .25-06, 6mm/.243, 6.5, 7mm, .30-06, .270, .280, etc etc etc). When was the last time you couldn't find .30-06 or .270, for instance?

orkan
02-26-13, 15:08
My point isn't that 6.5 is going to be very available, but that .308 (along with .223 and 9mm) is going to disappear first in the event of another demand spike. I don't believe this to be accurate.

It has to do with availability, which is determined by what manufacturers are prioritizing building.

308 has always been a priority. Didn't stop it from running out this time. 6.5 had a lot of huge runs prior to this. Everywhere had tons of the stuff, as proof of this fact. This doesn't mean there are more 6.5 creed rounds made than 308. It just means they did big runs and then swapped their dies over to 308 again. I assure you there isn't a dedicated line pumping out nothing but 6.5 creed. Yet I guarantee you there is one for 308.

BsideTX
02-26-13, 16:10
You're (still) arguing something that's entirely tangential to my point, and against things I never said. :confused:


It has to do with availability, which is determined by what manufacturers are prioritizing building.

Half true. It has do do with supply AND demand. When demand far outpaces supply, it doesn't matter how big the supply is.


308 has always been a priority. Didn't stop it from running out this time.

And it doesn't stop it from flying off shelves immediately if/when it's stocked


6.5 had a lot of huge runs prior to this. Everywhere had tons of the stuff, as proof of this fact. This doesn't mean there are more 6.5 creed rounds made than 308.

I never said there were? What are you disputing here?


I assure you there isn't a dedicated line pumping out nothing but 6.5 creed. Yet I guarantee you there is one for 308.

Certainly. That doesn't mean they are keeping pace with supply.


So, maybe I'm doing a bad job articulating my point -- :D Let me put it differently

1) There are many calibers that can serve a similar function to .308 which do not run the risk of demand shocks that .308 has.

We've seen ~ everyone and their brother that own .308 (along with .223 and 7.62x39) go out and buy up all available ammo at least once in the past few years.

2) Demand spikes for the most popular rounds can and do outstrip supply to the point of near unavailability in certain market conditions.

3) This is one of those times where it's hard to be a .308, .223, or 7.62x39 shooter.

4) It's not impossible to see demand spikes happening again (down the road maybe there's another bad election, similar tragedy giving crooked politicians an open door, drop in the dollar, etc etc etc).

5) In these cases, it would likely be easier to find ammo for something similar to .308 that isn't .308 (.30-06 or .270 win for example), just as it's easier to do so today.

I feel like you're saying today's reality is irrelevant to your decision, and while I think it shouldn't be the single point that decides this for you, it makes sense to at least consider that this may happen again.

In a perfect world, yes, we all have a several year supply of ammo stored up to float demand spikes, but that's simply not possible for everyone.

orkan
02-26-13, 19:25
I feel like you're saying today's reality is irrelevant to your decision, and while I think it shouldn't be the single point that decides this for you, it makes sense to at least consider that this may happen again. The more popular a round is, the more readily available ammo supply is. What you are saying, is the opposite. That due to a panic, all the popular stuff will be gone, leaving only the non-popular. I agree, but that is only in the short term. Looking further, you will find that it will all be hard to get until the panic subsides. When it does, the popular stuff will be the first to become in stock everywhere.

What is first to go... is ALSO the first to be available again. This is directly due to the rounds popularity. While other, not-so-prevalent rounds, will take longer to come into supply again.

This already happened that way twice in recent history. This time will be no different.

Where are you seeing 6.5 creedmoor in stock?

BsideTX
02-27-13, 07:03
The more popular a round is, the more readily available ammo supply is. What you are saying, is the opposite. That due to a panic, all the popular stuff will be gone, leaving only the non-popular.

That really isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying that there are many popular and capable cartridges that aren't .308. Ones you can find almost anywhere right now, that have had a steady supply, and are in no risk of being impossible to find loaded ammo and reloading components for at the same time.

If you shoot .270 or .30-06 (or a half dozen other rounds), you're completely unaffected by the current panic. You don't need to worry about getting stuff back in stock because it never went out of stock, and probably never will.

orkan
02-27-13, 10:30
I can get behind that, and I think you're right. However, there is a reason they don't go out of stock. People aren't capping off 50-100 rounds of 270 or 30-06 at precision rifle matches, or just for the fun of it while dinging steel.

The cartridges you specified typically do not have factory loaded ammo available with bullets built to suit long range precision applications. They are hunting cartridges, and that's where the bulk of the factory ammo is aimed.

TurretGunner
03-07-13, 20:02
I would not waste my time on .308. If you are remotley serious about shooting then its an obsolete round. .243/.260/6.5CM and a bunch of other rounds blow it out of the water.

If the military never adopted the .308, only hunters would be shooting it, if that.

6.5 CM is going to be the cheapest if you don't reload, followed by .243. It will be hard getting good match .243 but places like http://coppercreekammo.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=36 load for it.

I tried reloading twice, and after spending many o thousands of dollars trying to get into it, I just can't. Its a waste of my time and my time is worth more than saved from buying reloads. After shooting .308 for years, I am moving into the 6.5CM. Lots of good loadings out there if you look, less recoil than .308 and not the barrel burner that .243/6mm are.

You will need less elevation and your wind holds will be much more forgiving. I don't buy into the bullshit that you need to mortar round to learn to shoot.

If you REALLY want to learn to shoot on the cheap, get a .223 with the right twist and shoot some good 75-80gn out to 1000 yards. You will save a ton of money and learn alot along the way. There is a reason SRHP is dominated by .223.