View Full Version : Its only a matter of time...immigration.
sinlessorrow
02-13-13, 10:49
Ive been thinking about this whole immigration thing. Once these 11,000,000 illegals become citizens overnight who do you think they will be voting for? The democratic party thats who.
Its only a matter of time till they control the house, senate, and presidency. When this happens our gun rights will be gone, what will happen then? Who knows but it will onl be a matter of time till they come for them all, eventually this country will burn.
For now the support for gun cotrol is not there, but an extra 11,000,00 possible voters will make the difference overnight.
How about we do what Rush mentioned.
Pass out blanket amnesty.....but they can't vote for 25 years. Let's see who still wants to help these poor innocent people and aren't doing it strictly for the votes.
-Jax
Belmont31R
02-13-13, 11:00
11 million? Maybe 20 years ago.
I do agree it will end any chance of Republican control, and Reagan's amnesty did not help turn the tide of Latino's voting for Democrats.
It's also a fact that legal immigrants have a higher percentage on welfare than naturally born citizens.
I do not agree with amnesty, and there should be a total ban on legal immigrants getting welfare. I don't like naturally born citizens being on the dole let alone someone we let come in. Thats absurd, and insulting they are more likely to be get welfare than someone born here. Then we wonder why we are getting close to being 17 trillion in debt.
sinlessorrow
02-13-13, 11:02
11 million? Maybe 20 years ago.
I do agree it will end any chance of Republican control, and Reagan's amnesty did not help turn the tide of Latino's voting for Democrats.
It's also a fact that legal immigrants have a higher percentage on welfare than naturally born citizens.
I do not agree with amnesty, and there should be a total ban on legal immigrants getting welfare. I don't like naturally born citizens being on the dole let alone someone we let come in. Thats absurd, and insulting they are more likely to be get welfare than someone born here. Then we wonder why we are getting close to being 17 trillion in debt.
Like i said, only a matter of time till this country burns and becomes a new country, our guns will be gone by that time and the only thing wekl be able to do is bend over and take it.
Doc Safari
02-13-13, 11:08
Like i said, only a matter of time till this country burns and becomes a new country, our guns will be gone by that time and the only thing wekl be able to do is bend over and take it.
The politicians have left the barn door open in a world of horse thieves.
It's only a matter of time until someone working for Al Qaeda does something really unacceptable to the American people and it's proven that he came up through Mexico.
On that day, things will change. You'll see people on the border with AR's shooting at anything that moves.
Eurodriver
02-13-13, 11:13
Most illegal latinos I know are pretty conservative and only vote D due to things like the Dream Act and amnesty.
They hate abortion more than Akin does, enjoy guns, and are hard workers.
True story.
Belmont31R
02-13-13, 11:16
Most illegal latinos I know are pretty conservative and only vote D due to things like the Dream Act and amnesty.
They hate abortion more than Akin does, enjoy guns, and are hard workers.
True story.
Huh??
Well, once we grant amnesty to the current illegal immigrants (11-30 million estimates), that just leaves the door open for an open door policy for millions more to come on up.
None of the "reforms" include anything to prevent future amnesties or to deter future illegal immigration. If we reward that behavior we will get lots more of it.
brickboy240
02-13-13, 11:36
This is all by design.
The socialists need a large, non-upwardly mobile, uneducated slave class to enact it's policies and ensure it's future.
The illegal immigrants are the left's wet dream.
That said....it is becoming harder and harder to be a white business owner in America.
-brickboy240
sinlessorrow
02-13-13, 12:09
Most illegal latinos I know are pretty conservative and only vote D due to things like the Dream Act and amnesty.
They hate abortion more than Akin does, enjoy guns, and are hard workers.
True story.
You must be talking about those illegals in another country? Surely your not talking about America? How exactly are Illegals voting, I also have seen very few who would fight for the 2A.
Huh??
Come on, acting surprised? You think that illegals don't vote here?
Edited to add - ;)
Belmont31R
02-13-13, 12:22
Come on, acting surprised? You think that illegals don't vote here?
Edited to add - ;)
Couldn't fool you! :p
That's why Democrats oppose voter ID so fiercely. I have no idea of the actual number, and no one really does, but I wouldnt be shocked if the boost it gives them in some districts into double digits with illegal aliens and people voting multiple times.
Didn't we hash this out two weeks ago where I was called a racist for not wanting millions of new people on the dole?
If 11,000,000 illegals become citizens overnight , that would create a whole lot of cheap labor for someone to exploit, even with a potential minimum wage increase. Maybe there plan is to bring those type of jobs back from China. Also, we will probably have a lot more potential gun owners wanting to exercise their 2nd amendment rights. Its to bad most of them will probably have no background to check.
Magic_Salad0892
02-13-13, 13:22
Maybe there plan is to bring those type of jobs back from China.
Why don't they just ****ing hire AMERICANS?
Also, we will probably have a lot more potential gun owners wanting to exercise their 2nd amendment rights.
Most people coming from Mexico do not have educated backgrounds, so they'll just recognize guns as being bad here, because they were bad back home. They'll be like "Haga armas ilegales!" and "Dame dinero gratis, y en la universidad!" and it will be granted.
We need to shut down our boarders for a few years. Not allow any immigration until we have this shit figured out. (Except for political asylum.)
Magic_Salad0892
02-13-13, 13:23
Didn't we hash this out two weeks ago where I was called a racist for not wanting millions of new people on the dole?
No. I was kinda on your side actually. I just didn't post.
Why don't they just ****ing hire AMERICANS?
Exactly. There are 50 million Americans on welfare that could be working. We already have a surplus of labor.
Exactly. There are 50 million Americans on welfare that could be working. We already have a surplus of labor.
You assume they are qualified. I doubt I would want to hire most of them. I said most, not all.
GeorgiaBoy
02-13-13, 16:53
Why don't they just ****ing hire AMERICANS?
Because most "Americans" aren't willing to do the tough work that most undocumented and documented immigrants do.
It's also a fact that legal immigrants have a higher percentage on welfare than naturally born citizens.
What?
38.8% of those on welfare in the US are WHITE.
39.8% of those on welfare in the US are BLACK.
15.7% of those on welfare in the US are Hispanic.
2.4% Asian..
3.3% "other".
Hispanics have a high poverty rate (33%) yet only receive 15.7% of welfare. Contrast that with 13% of whites and 35% of blacks who are receiving the 39% and 40% of welfare.
Where are you getting your facts?
Source: USDHSS, USDC, the CATO Institute and 2010 census data.
brickboy240
02-13-13, 16:56
Many able bodied Americans think they are "too good" to do the work that the illegals will do in a minute.
When is the last time you saw anglos or blacks doing landscaping or tile work?
Out of work anglos can just collect unemployment and sit on their butts. If we cut that out tomorrow...you'd see all sorts of whiteys pushing mowers and scrubbing bathrooms! LOL
-brickboy240
If 11,000,000 illegals become citizens overnight , that would create a whole lot of cheap labor for someone to exploit, even with a potential minimum wage increase. Maybe there plan is to bring those type of jobs back from China. Also, we will probably have a lot more potential gun owners wanting to exercise their 2nd amendment rights. Its to bad most of them will probably have no background to check.
Maybe they could unionize, that would make things better :suicide:
:rolleyes:
Doc Safari
02-13-13, 17:16
Many able bodied Americans think they are "too good" to do the work that the illegals will do in a minute.
When is the last time you saw anglos or blacks doing landscaping or tile work?
Out of work anglos can just collect unemployment and sit on their butts. If we cut that out tomorrow...you'd see all sorts of whiteys pushing mowers and scrubbing bathrooms! LOL
-brickboy240
That may be true for some, but watching several news stories over the past few years, it's clear that illegals have jobs that Americans don't largely because Americans want higher pay. I forget which company it was, but after they got raided for all their illegal alien employees, there was a line of American workers wanting jobs after the illegals went away.
I blame the employers for the illegal alien problem as much as anything. Ironically, if there was a law mandating equal benefits for illegals, it might be too much trouble for US firms to hire them. I'm just guessing at that, but if you have to pay everyone equally, wouldn't you prefer the more skilled worker?
You assume they are qualified. I doubt I would want to hire most of them. I said most, not all.
How is an uneducated person from mexico any more qualified than an uneducated american on welfare?
What qualifications do you need to pick lettuce or work in a meat packing plant?
Because most "Americans" aren't willing to do the tough work that most undocumented and documented immigrants do.
Thats because the americans are too comfortable on the dole.
The welfare state created this situation.
38.8% of those on welfare in the US are WHITE.
39.8% of those on welfare in the US are BLACK.
15.7% of those on welfare in the US are Hispanic.
2.4% Asian..
3.3% "other".
Meaningless numbers.
They don't tell percentage on welfare within their own demographic.
Why can't we just force the hand. If you wish to collect EBT and unemployment then the government can but you to work. Factories, farms and other forms of labor Americans are to good for. If they refuse to work the government refuses to given them money. Tax breaks would also be given to employers who use this kinda of labor. We would also have to be careful not create a " slave type soviet class"
sinlessorrow
02-13-13, 19:01
If 11,000,000 illegals become citizens overnight , that would create a whole lot of cheap labor for someone to exploit, even with a potential minimum wage increase. Maybe there plan is to bring those type of jobs back from China. Also, we will probably have a lot more potential gun owners wanting to exercise their 2nd amendment rights. Its to bad most of them will probably have no background to check.
Where are you getting this information from?
The politicians have left the barn door open in a world of horse thieves.
It's only a matter of time until someone working for Al Qaeda does something really unacceptable to the American people and it's proven that he came up through Mexico.
On that day, things will change. You'll see people on the border with AR's shooting at anything that moves.
Nah, that will never happen, it would expose the grand plan. Hmmm, we can't even get real truth on Fast and Furious, do you really think that there will be ANY more truth from something south of the border?
Because most "Americans" aren't willing to do the tough work that most undocumented and documented immigrants do.
What?
38.8% of those on welfare in the US are WHITE.
39.8% of those on welfare in the US are BLACK.
15.7% of those on welfare in the US are Hispanic.
2.4% Asian..
3.3% "other".
Hispanics have a high poverty rate (33%) yet only receive 15.7% of welfare. Contrast that with 13% of whites and 35% of blacks who are receiving the 39% and 40% of welfare.
Where are you getting your facts?
Source: USDHSS, USDC, the CATO Institute and 2010 census data.
You do know that White non-Hispanics comprise more than 60% of the population and Hispanics only 16%? Thus, Hispanics use a much higher per capita proportion of welfare resources. However, this discussion is not about all Hispanics - we are really only talking about illegals. When you look at welfare spending on this particular population you will see that the government puts out far more in terms of welfare than it collects in tax revenue.
There, you see. I was able to correct you without calling you a progressive hippie ;)
FWIW, at my work, the hispanic guys are the ones who work the hardest overall.
I don't believe that if they were given amnesty or if the system were to be reformed, that the sky would fall.
I would be more concerned about the media, talking mouths/special interests, etc playing divide and conquer and alienating people.
If 11,000,000 illegals become citizens overnight , that would create a whole lot of cheap labor for someone to exploit, even with a potential minimum wage increase. Maybe there plan is to bring those type of jobs back from China. Also, we will probably have a lot more potential gun owners wanting to exercise their 2nd amendment rights. Its to bad most of them will probably have no background to check.
Umm... they are already here and their "cheap labor" is already being exploited. Won't change if the Dems suddenly make them able to vote legally. They use fake names and social security numbers. The men go to work for higher than minimum wage everyday and get paid under the table, while their wives stay home and collect welfare. They get more welfare for squeezing out more kids. Then 15 or 20 of them will share a rent controlled apartment and send all the money they make back home to Mexico. Then the just go sit in the emergency room to get free medical care. Something like 40% of the emergency rooms have had to close down, so all the illegals just go to the ones that are still open. Then when someone who isn't illegal actually has an emergency, you get to sit in the emergency waiting room for 5-6 hours because of the 30 illegals whose babies have a cold are waiting in front of you. And most of them don't speak a lick of english and make no effort to try and learn it. Last estimate I saw put more than 12 million just in Los Angeles County.
If these people get any sort of "amnesty", our country as we know it is DONE.
Cincinnatus
02-13-13, 21:43
Most illegal latinos I know are pretty conservative and only vote D due to things like the Dream Act and amnesty.
They hate abortion more than Akin does, enjoy guns, and are hard workers.
True story.
Take a look at Mexico and other such countries. Are their laws more similar to what the Left advocates or the Right in our country? Here's a hint, most of the countries south of our border are socialist basket cases. And while it used to be the case that those who left those countries were fleeing them for that very reason -- the Cuban model--it is now the case that they are not--the "Mexican model." Just like Libs leave California because they hate it but then implement the same policies wherever they move to, so would the majority of those from South and Central America.
Plus, if those to whom amnesty would be granted had any chance of actually voting conservatively, the Libs would be the first to build a wall to keep them out and the higher the better.
FWIW, at my work, the hispanic guys are the ones who work the hardest overall.
I don't believe that if they were given amnesty or if the system were to be reformed, that the sky would fall.
I would be more concerned about the media, talking mouths/special interests, etc playing divide and conquer and alienating people.
Work ethic is not a perfect predictor of social resource utilization.
Ive been thinking about this whole immigration thing. Once these 11,000,000 illegals become citizens overnight who do you think they will be voting for? The democratic party thats who.
Its only a matter of time till they control the house, senate, and presidency. When this happens our gun rights will be gone, what will happen then? Who knows but it will onl be a matter of time till they come for them all, eventually this country will burn.
For now the support for gun cotrol is not there, but an extra 11,000,00 possible voters will make the difference overnight.
They will not become citizens overnight, some may become residents. Residents cannot vote.
Edited, because I can't read time stamps.
Once they overrun this country, I'll move to mexico, since they'll all be here, & sip fancy drinks on the beach all day. It'll be nice to break out the surfboard again.
Belmont31R
02-15-13, 18:18
Because most "Americans" aren't willing to do the tough work that most undocumented and documented immigrants do.
What?
38.8% of those on welfare in the US are WHITE.
39.8% of those on welfare in the US are BLACK.
15.7% of those on welfare in the US are Hispanic.
2.4% Asian..
3.3% "other".
Hispanics have a high poverty rate (33%) yet only receive 15.7% of welfare. Contrast that with 13% of whites and 35% of blacks who are receiving the 39% and 40% of welfare.
Where are you getting your facts?
Source: USDHSS, USDC, the CATO Institute and 2010 census data.
I guess you don't understand how statistics work, and nothing you said addresses natural born citizens vs. immigrants.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/334337/immigrant-welfare-new-colossus-jillian-kay-melchior
The reason Americans won't work for the low wages is because we have a standard of living here, and I've been around enough (presumed) illegal aliens to see how they live. Of course they will take lower wages, often for cash, and don't pay taxes or they pay identity thieves for a good SSN to put on applications. They would have to pay taxes that way, but it goes for someone else and can cause all sorts of problems when they are person gets flagged by IRS and goes through an audit.
So, no, it's not that American's won't do the same work it's that they won't take the low wages that comes with farm labor and other manual labor jobs for the pay.
Ive been thinking about this whole immigration thing. Once these 11,000,000 illegals become citizens overnight who do you think they will be voting for? The democratic party thats who.
Its only a matter of time till they control the house, senate, and presidency. When this happens our gun rights will be gone, what will happen then? Who knows but it will onl be a matter of time till they come for them all, eventually this country will burn.
For now the support for gun cotrol is not there, but an extra 11,000,00 possible voters will make the difference overnight.
And in every state in the union......all 57 of them!
And in every state in the union......all 57 of them!
You forgot,
Chihuahua
Sonora
Coahuila
Durango
Oaxaca
Tamaulipas
Jalisco
Zacatecas
Baja California Sur
Chiapas
Veracruz
Baja California
Nuevo León
Guerrero
San Luis Potosí
Michoacán
Campeche
Sinaloa
Quintana Roo
Yucatán
Puebla
Guanajuato
Nayarit
Tabasco
México
Hidalgo
Querétaro
Colima
Aguascalientes
Morelos
Tlaxcala
Again, citizenship is not instant. A period of residency is required first. The average wait period of residency to applying for citizenship is ten years. Most aliens never move past residency. Residents cannot vote.
The politicians have left the barn door open in a world of horse thieves.
It's only a matter of time until someone working for Al Qaeda does something really unacceptable to the American people and it's proven that he came up through Mexico.
On that day, things will change. You'll see people on the border with AR's shooting at anything that moves.
I have always said if I was the bad guy in charge of the GWOT that I'd run my people up from Mexico through the drug connections to the Middle East and then filter them out into the smaller areas. Nothing like several bombing of Wally World/Costos's or your local gas station to keep you thinking what if/am I safe. But then again all they seem to want is "statement attacks".
Think what a few trained people could do in a mass shooting that is easily done by a kid off his meds. Our soft targets aren't safe at all.
sinlessorrow
02-16-13, 18:35
You forgot,
Chihuahua
Sonora
Coahuila
Durango
Oaxaca
Tamaulipas
Jalisco
Zacatecas
Baja California Sur
Chiapas
Veracruz
Baja California
Nuevo León
Guerrero
San Luis Potosí
Michoacán
Campeche
Sinaloa
Quintana Roo
Yucatán
Puebla
Guanajuato
Nayarit
Tabasco
México
Hidalgo
Querétaro
Colima
Aguascalientes
Morelos
Tlaxcala
Again, citizenship is not instant. A period of residency is required first. The average wait period of residency to applying for citizenship is ten years. Most aliens never move past residency. Residents cannot vote.
Its not instant yet.....:just wait, itwill be.
Its not instant yet.....:just wait, itwill be.
No, it wont. There is a line of permanent residents ahead of these and those will be processed first. The current backlog is going to take a while to process.
sinlessorrow
02-16-13, 19:39
No, it wont. There is a line of permanent residents ahead of these and those will be processed first. The current backlog is going to take a while to process.
I can almost guarantee they will bipass the line to get the votes they need.
I can almost guarantee they will bipass the line to get the votes they need.
You have to understand, obtaining citizenship is a process, and a lengthy one at that. I don't know how you envision it but fiddling with the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA, or The Act) to bypass one group to grant citizenship to another is pretty much impossible. Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) is a huge bureaucracy and there just aren't any shortcuts over there. I've been enforcing the INA off and on for 14 years and the just isn't a way to instant citizenship. Instant residency for some perhaps, but not citizenship.
sinlessorrow
02-16-13, 20:32
You have to understand, obtaining citizenship is a process, and a lengthy one at that. I don't know how you envision it but fiddling with the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA, or The Act) to bypass one group to grant citizenship to another is pretty much impossible. Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) is a huge bureaucracy and there just aren't any shortcuts over there. I've been enforcing the INA off and on for 14 years and the just isn't a way to instant citizenship. Instant residency for some perhaps, but not citizenship.
But these new laws seek to change the way its all done, granting citizenship to the illegals.
Am i just missunderstanding what Obama is planning?
But these new laws seek to change the way its all done, granting citizenship to the illegals.
I have spent a decade and a half working with and around CIS, I understand the naturalization process, it is codified in the INA. Also much of it has been defined by a host of judicial rulings from the appellate courts and SCOTUS. Additionally, CIS still operates in a paper system. They make the IRS look like FedEx by comparison when it comes to efficiency. The function of the system and the process precludes shortcuts. I have seen the INA tinkered with several times over my career and and I get greatly frustrated by the term, "immigration reform" because all it is, and has been, is tinkering and never true reform. There is a whole bunch of mis-speak in the press about what is going on and what is proposed. Listen for the keywords, "pathway to citizenship", which is exactly what I have described, residency before citizenship. There is no other way to do it.
sinlessorrow
02-16-13, 22:08
Thanks for clearing that up, great info
Thanks for clearing that up, great info
No one one wants to see a "real reform" of the INA as much as those that have to enforce it. Picture an inner tube with as many or more patches as unblemished rubber and that is what the INA looks like. It has been fiddled and tinkered with by Congress and the courts so much that it is nothing but a collection of patches. Real "reform" needs to be a top to bottom re-write of the INA, not the customary addition of yet another "patch" which is what the Obama administration and the Congress are proposing.
As another analogy, the INA has quite a bit in common with tax code in terms of patches and re-writes, exclusions, exemptions, etc.
CarlosDJackal
02-16-13, 22:53
...It's also a fact that legal immigrants have a higher percentage on welfare than naturally born citizens...
Very interesting. The statistics do not seem to support this though; (from Welfare Statistics (http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/))
Total number of Americans on welfare - 4,300,000
Total number of Americans on food stamps - 46,700,000
Total number of Americans on unemployment insurance - 5,600,000
Percent of the US population on welfare - 4.1 %
Total government spending on welfare annually (not including food stamps or unemployment) - $131.9 billion
Welfare Demographics:
38.8 % of recipients who are white
39.8 % of recipients who are black
15.7 % of recipients who are Hispanic
2.4 % of recipients who are Asian
3.3 % of recipients who are Other
The last I checked there aren't very many white or black immigrants:
Out of 1,910,000 Immigrants:
50% of Immigrants are Asian
16% are from North America (Canada, Mexico, etc.)
14% are from Europe
5% from South America
Just sayin'
Very interesting. The statistics do not seem to support this though; (from Welfare Statistics (http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/))
Total number of Americans on welfare - 4,300,000
Total number of Americans on food stamps - 46,700,000
Total number of Americans on unemployment insurance - 5,600,000
Percent of the US population on welfare - 4.1 %
Total government spending on welfare annually (not including food stamps or unemployment) - $131.9 billion
Welfare Demographics:
38.8 % of recipients who are white
39.8 % of recipients who are black
15.7 % of recipients who are Hispanic
2.4 % of recipients who are Asian
3.3 % of recipients who are Other
The last I checked there aren't very many white or black immigrants:
Out of 1,910,000 Immigrants:
50% of Immigrants are Asian
16% are from North America (Canada, Mexico, etc.)
14% are from Europe
5% from South America
Just sayin'
Carlos, illegal immigrants do use a disproportionate amount of social resources. Hidden within the statistics is the number of illegal immigrants actually on welfare or receiving some form of social assistance. This number is actually not published or well quantified. However, this article does a good job of attempting to describe the problem:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/334337/immigrant-welfare-new-colossus-jillian-kay-melchior
Another relatively undiscussed factor is that illegals use a tremendous amount of healthcare and social resources that are unreimbursed, but not counted as welfare since illegals are technically not eligible for Medicaid. For example, our nation spends over $2 Billion annually just to deliver illegal babies according to this article:
http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/15/report-2-billion-spent-annually-for-medicaid-emergencies-largely-for-illegal-immigrant-baby-delivery/
That does not count all of the accidents, shootings, heart attack, etc. that we are forced to cover due to EMTALA. However, these dollars are not counted as being spent on welfare and they are written off by hospitals or covered with cost sharing (meaning price increases for everybody else). It also does not include the cost to incarcerate illegal immigrant criminals.
The bottom line is that we would be much better off as a country from an economic and security perspective if we sealed the border to prevent ILLEGAL immigration.
I think if you guys want to get upset about something you should be all up in arms over this topic.
Google "birth tourism".
CarlosDJackal
02-17-13, 20:52
Carlos, illegal immigrants do use a disproportionate amount of social resources...
Umm. We were talking about LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Not illegal ones. That's what those statistics were about. :rolleyes:
Umm. We were talking about LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Not illegal ones. That's what those statistics were about. :rolleyes:
Actually, this thread is about illegal immigration and the effect of legalizing millions of aliens on our political and socioeconomic landscape. People started to quote statistics on legal immigration a few posts back likely as a means to confuse the topic. Think of my post as trying to get this thread back on track. ;)
Actually, this thread is about illegal immigration and the effect of legalizing millions of aliens on our political and socioeconomic landscape. People started to quote statistics on legal immigration a few posts back likely as a means to confuse the topic. Think of my post as trying to get this thread back on track. ;)
Thanks for refocusing on the OP topic! Those who want to try the switcheroo tactic are pathetic in their childish bleating. The issue is allowing millions of ILLEGAL aliens/immigrants to stay in the US legally (jump to the front of the line or skip the line others wait in). This amnesty is usually NOT coupled with any better border control NOR with any more stringent jail/deportation requirements. So the amnesty will be a clear message for millions more to sneak across or over stay. Endless cycle as it has been since the 1986 amnesty for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, racially prejudiced for just those of Hispanic origins, not necessarily just Mexico, and certainly not for the hard workers from Asia or anywhere else.
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