View Full Version : Bought a Rem 700 sps tac, now what?
Somewhat new to bolt guns, but I have always wanted one since I sold my last 700 and finally picked one up.
From the reading I have done the Hogue stock is crap. So that will be the 1st to go. For now that is probably going to be the only thing to get changed out until I get some time behind the gun.
However I don't know where to start with scope, mount and rings. Any insight would be great. This is going to be a plinking gun so I'd like to keep glass around the 500 range. Vortex comes to mind, but what one?
As for stocks I think I have narrowed it down to this one, thoughts? I'll have to have it bedded cause I'd have no idea what im doing.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/273579/bell-and-carlson-medalist-m40-varmint-tactical-rifle-stock-remington-700-bdl-short-action-with-aluminum-bedding-block-system-and-adjustable-butt-plate-varmint-barrel-channel-synthetic-black
AR15barrels
02-15-13, 02:41
At $500 budget, get a TPS steel 20 moa base, TPS medium steel 1" rings and a Nikon buckmaster 4.5-14x40 with the mildot reticle and side focus.
Save another $500 and get a Viper PST ffp.
I like the looks of that stock. Prolly get something similar when the time comes. I also just bought a 700 SPS, waiting for my base to come in.
Gatekeeper
02-15-13, 11:44
As for stocks I think I have narrowed it down to this one, thoughts? I'll have to have it bedded cause I'd have no idea what im doing.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/273579/bell-and-carlson-medalist-m40-varmint-tactical-rifle-stock-remington-700-bdl-short-action-with-aluminum-bedding-block-system-and-adjustable-butt-plate-varmint-barrel-channel-synthetic-black
I put a B&C m40 non adjustable stock on mine with the same aluminum bedding block, dropped right in with no fitting needed and accuracy has been great. But the Hogue was surprisingly stable...
This was 5 shots during barrel break in as my SPS Tact 223 came "out of the box"
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh146/pittpiledriver/Mobile%20Uploads/1218101224.jpg
The stock you picked should be a good performer, check here... it's in stock and will save you a few bucks
http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-108/bell-carlson-adjustable-tactical/Detail
ericridebike
02-15-13, 15:43
Just put a B&C A2 Tactical Medalist stock on my new SPS Tactical .308 & I love it. Feels so much better than the Hogue. Now, just need to boresight it and find some time to actually go shoot it.
+1 on Stocky's Stocks. I got my B&C Medalist II from them at a great price.
I have a chicom Millett LRS scope mounted on my 700SPS. It was a bit of a pain finding quality rings for the 35mm tube but it does not need the 20moa base. I realize that it isn't the best quality in optics but is damn good for the $.
Thanks Gatkeeper. I think i actually have that bookmarked throug stockys, i dont know why i posted the link throug midway, probably just browsing..
As far as optics go thats 500 for just the glass, i can get mount and rings seperate, just want something good quality. Buy once, cry once i guess.
AR15barrels
02-16-13, 02:18
As far as optics go thats 500 for just the glass, i can get mount and rings seperate, just want something good quality. Buy once, cry once i guess.
Raise the budget another 500 to 700...
Then you can buy once.
Gutshot John
02-16-13, 07:22
Don't feel like you need to rush right out and buy a stock. The Hogue stock isn't ideal, but it serves its purpose perfectly adequately.
If you're new to bolt guns, and on a limited budget, focus your efforts on getting a decent optic/mount/rings (the Vortex PST FFP is an excellent suggestion). Shoot it.
When you notice a performance deficit (i.e. you can outshoot the rifle) then you can start worrying about new stocks/barrels etc.
Don't feel like you need to rush right out and buy a stock. The Hogue stock isn't ideal, but it serves its purpose perfectly adequately.
If you're new to bolt guns, and on a limited budget, focus your efforts on getting a decent optic/mount/rings (the Vortex PST FFP is an excellent suggestion). Shoot it.
When you notice a performance deficit (i.e. you can outshoot the rifle) then you can start worrying about new stocks/barrels etc.
This is excellent advice.
Save another $500 and get a Viper PST ffp.
If you're new to bolt guns, and on a limited budget, focus your efforts on getting a decent optic/mount/rings (the Vortex PST FFP is an excellent suggestion).
Agree with good scope, base and rings first before changing the stock. And agree that the Vortex Viper PST FFP MIL/MIL is an excellent choice.
Either the 4-16x50 or the 6-24x50:
http://www.libertyoptics.com/contents/en-us/d64.html
I'll be the voice of dissension here.
For an experienced shooter, yes, the factory hogue stock can be dealt with. However, a certain level of experience is required to be able to drive it effectively and understand when shots were thrown due to the stock.
Virtually every single remington 700 in a hogue stock can be made to repeatably throw shots based on how much forward pressure is applied or not applied to the bipod.
This would be virtually impossible for a rookie shooter to identify. I have seen students suffer the effects of this in nearly every class where a SPS tactical in factory configuration is present. For this reason, I believe the stock is the FIRST thing that needs to go. Obviously a quality optic is also of paramount concern, however, a quality optic will do you no good when the rifle is throwing shots as much as 3 inches due to varying torque in the stock in different firing positions.
Don't feel like you need to rush right out and buy a stock. The Hogue stock isn't ideal, but it serves its purpose perfectly adequately.
If you're new to bolt guns, and on a limited budget, focus your efforts on getting a decent optic/mount/rings (the Vortex PST FFP is an excellent suggestion). Shoot it.
When you notice a performance deficit (i.e. you can outshoot the rifle) then you can start worrying about new stocks/barrels etc.
This is the way I would go. Take the 400 or so dollars for the stock and direct it towards better glass and mounts, and some ammo.
You can upgrade to a better stock in a while. Hogue is not the best, but not the worse either.
This is the way I would go. Take the 400 or so dollars for the stock and direct it towards better glass and mounts, and some ammo.
You can upgrade to a better stock in a while. Hogue is not the best, but not the worse either. What will you suggest when he can do no better than 1 moa, and the POI shifts as much as 3 moa every time he gets in position?
All the while it's throwing shots, because he's new, he'll think its him instead of the rifle.
The way the action mates up to the stock is one of the most important aspects of a rifle. The hogue stock is one of the worst in history when considering that interface. It bends between the action screws, and in front of them, causing tremendous stress on the action. Every single SPS tactical that we have re-stocked results in a more consistent rifle. They usually shrink the groups by 1/4 to 3/4 moa, and the POI stops wandering all over the place.
The effect is so severe that I would say it is nearly impossible for a new shooter to learn anything at all while firing a rifle with that hogue stock. The inconsistency is too great to identify anything the shooter is doing to cause the thrown shot. Just about anyone in the world can shoot 2-3 MOA at 100yds. It takes a different skillset all together to do half MOA. The best shooter in the world would never be able to consistently make one of those rifles perform to that degree with that stock.
A rifle that shifts POI for seemingly no reason is a nightmare scenario for a new shooter. It can be anything. Optic, base, rings, barrel, stock, them, etc. This nightmare scenario is virtually guaranteed by use of that rubber stock. The only people that don't already know this are those that have not had sufficient experience behind those rifles.
To be clear for those that may be skimming through:
The hogue stocks are some of the worst precision rifle stocks in history. The only thing as bad or worse are the factory tupperware stocks offered by every major manufacturer. A $200 bell and carlson composite is so much better than the hogue, that there is no reason not to spend that $325 for the stock and bedding.
Confidence is your number one asset when shooting a rifle. Equipment that robs you of your confidence can not be tolerated. I have seen so many people's confidence destroyed by these stocks, that it is impossible for me to say they are anything but complete garbage.
Those that disagree, I encourage you to get your rifle out and spend some quality time with it in various positions. If you don't find the deficiencies, print the dot drill below, and attempt to clean it at 100yds.
http://www.primalrights.com/images/targets/dotdrill.pdf
Gutshot John
02-17-13, 09:23
My recommendation was mostly based on the need for a budget/prioritization.
I think the stock is mostly irrelevant to simply building the skillset he needs to use the rifle effectively. Yes, he's not going to shoot as well as he would with a properly bedded, higher-end stock, but put yourself back in the head of someone just starting out.
The optic/mount/rings combo remains the first place to spend money on. This is where you buy the best money can afford right off the bat.
With the optic in place, you can go out and shoot now, if the stock is your priority, than you still have to wait for the proper scope to go shoot.
Once he's mastered some of the more basic skills, the stock is a worthy place to invest some dollars down the road.
If you've got money for both, I'd still go with a precision shooting class over a stock.
m1a_scoutguy
02-17-13, 10:49
This is great info,,,I will be buying one of these rifles in the weeks to come & was wondering myself about there capability and what to look for !! I'll keep my eyes on this thread for sure !! Hey Gatekeeper,,is that Factory Ammo,,or some reloads,,,doesn't look like ya need to do much tuning no matter what it is,,,good shooting !
My recommendation was mostly based on the need for a budget/prioritization.
I think the stock is mostly irrelevant to simply building the skillset he needs to use the rifle effectively. Yes, he's not going to shoot as well as he would with a properly bedded, higher-end stock, but put yourself back in the head of someone just starting out.
The optic/mount/rings combo remains the first place to spend money on. This is where you buy the best money can afford right off the bat.
With the optic in place, you can go out and shoot now, if the stock is your priority, than you still have to wait for the proper scope to go shoot.
Once he's mastered some of the more basic skills, the stock is a worthy place to invest some dollars down the road.
If you've got money for both, I'd still go with a precision shooting class over a stock.. What skills can he master with a 2moa rifle?
Gutshot John
02-17-13, 12:29
. What skills can he master with a 2moa rifle?
Seriously?
You're right, obviously there is nothing he can learn. He's not going to learn anything about creating a stable shooting position. He's not going to learn anything about how to use his optic. He's not going to learn anything about breathing. He's not going to learn anything about spotting by watching other people shoot. He's not going to learn...
Who cares what MOA his rifle shoots, if he as the shooter can't do any better?
Lots of people learned on that exact platform.
Spend your money on the optic and worry about the stock later when it becomes an issue.
Seriously?
Spend your money on the optic and worry about the stock later when it becomes an issue.
Yeah, why worry about a solid foundation when you can have a fancy scope with big tacticool knobs on it!
Seriously, those rubber stocks are junk and don't even belong on those rifles in the first place. They are lowest common denominator price point junk. The only reason to buy a rifle with one is if you are getting it cheap and budgeting for a real stock as part of the total package. Once you have that, then the next thing out should get is a good scope/ring combo. But a rifle with a junk stock is like building an addition on a house with a shifting foundation. Just a really bad idea.
I would rather have a rifle with iron sights and a good stock than a junk stock and a good scope. But at the end of the day, you need both.
Gutshot John
02-17-13, 13:07
Yeah, why worry about a solid foundation when you can have a fancy scope with big tacticool knobs on it!
Wtf are you talking about? No one ever said anything of the sort. Talk about a false choice in a field of straw men.
You do realize that this is a precision bolt action thread?
Most precision shooters, do indeed use scopes, the better ones even use fancy scopes with big knobs.
The stock in question is perfectly serviceable.
Come back when you have something useful to contribute.
The point I made, clearly, is that if it's either/or between a good stock and a good scope, pick the stock first. But if a precision rifle is the end goal, you need both. Also stated clearly.
Gutshot John
02-17-13, 13:16
The point I made, clearly, is that if it's either/or between a good stock and a good scope, pick the stock first. But if a precision rifle is the end goal, you need both. Also stated clearly.
Clear in your mind maybe, but perhaps it got lost in all your "tacticool" bullfeathers.
A $500 gun with a $1000 scope is going to get you a lot farther than a $1000 gun with a $500 scope.
Clear enough?
A $500 gun with a $1000 scope is going to get you a lot farther than a $1000 gun with a $500 scope.
Clear enough?
That depends. If you have a shifting zero, the potential performance of your $1000 scope is being wasted.
Gatekeeper
02-17-13, 13:51
Hey Gatekeeper,,is that Factory Ammo,,or some reloads,,,doesn't look like ya need to do much tuning no matter what it is,,,good shooting !
Handloads, Lol but they are the same 60gr Nosler load I had worked up for my AR. Got lucky since I tried it first and it performed so well.
It's a beautiful thing when your "blasting ammo" for your carbine turns out to perform great in your precision rifle! :dance3:
And that group was shot off bipod with the Hogue stock. As I stated before it is flexible and less forgiving if you inconsistently torque the forend when loading the bipod and I would recommend upgrading it.
Personally if limited on funds I would invest in good optics first (and learning proper technique) then upgrade the stock as soon as money allows.
I did the same thing with optics, couldn't afford a higher dollar Mark4, Nightforce, S&B etc so I bought a 4.5-14x50mm Vx3, then upgraded to M1 turrets when I saved up the money. Sure it's nice to buy it once, but starting with a quality foundation that you can improve in increments will get you in the game and out shooting (and learning) while you save up the money for upgrades.
Also the factory finish seems like where they cut corners to keep the price down. Mine looked like parkerizing but would start to rust if you looked at it funny. Maybe they improved it since I bought mine, but if not a little krylon can make it completely weatherproof!
"Bought a Rem 700 sps tac, now what?"
;)
Shoot the snot out of it?
I'd swap stocks, add a badger 20moa base, badger rings, and a swfa ss 10x scope.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
AR15barrels
02-17-13, 17:15
You're right, obviously there is nothing he can learn. He's not going to learn anything about creating a stable shooting position. He's not going to learn anything about how to use his optic. He's not going to learn anything about breathing. He's not going to learn anything about spotting by watching other people shoot. He's not going to learn...
I agree with Orkan.
He is right.
The new shooter is not gonna learn much with a 2 moa gun.
He is only going to get frustrated because everything he reads online says the gun should shoot 1 moa out of the box.
I commonly take new shooters with stock 700p's or 5r's (hs stocks) and I can get them shooting 3/4 moa to 1/2 moa on their first day on the range with them.
I can't get the same results with the flexible plastic stocks.
AR15barrels
02-17-13, 17:19
A $500 gun with a $1000 scope is going to get you a lot farther than a $1000 gun with a $500 scope.
Clear enough?
False.
I guarantee that I can take a new shooter with a 700p and a Nikon buckmaster and they will be able to outshoot another new shooter with an SPS varmint with a PST on it on their first day.
I never post here but this did it for me. I completely agree the stock must be replaced first. I, in fact had the same rifle with the same shitty stock and after one crappy afternoon of 2 MOA groups got a Manners T4, bedded it and finally got results that I could work with and learn from.
Pick up a SWFA SS fixed power MRAD for $300 or less, learn to use mils, ranging, make solid wind calls, etc. Then dump 1-2K into a Vortex FFP, Nightforce or USO.
As with any discipline, there are those that get it, and those that don't.
Unfortunately this never seems to stop those that don't from handing out free advice whenever they see fit. People pay me for my advice john, and they pay handsomely and happily. Then they spend their free time referring others to do the same.
I was going to take it easy on you, however, the fact that you can so blindly and passionately steer someone in absolutely the wrong direction disgusts me. Point in fact, it is shitty advice like that which I saw being handed out all over that led me to start Primal Rights in the first place.
The worst part is, new guys read a thread like this and see someone talking about something as strongly as you are... and there's a slight chance they will believe you. I feel damn sorry for them, and feel nothing but contempt for you.
Agree with good scope, base and rings first before changing the stock.
Earlier in this thread I said the above. But Orkin and others have converted me. I didn't know any better as I have never shot with one of the tupperware stocks. But I can see what they are saying and thier logic. Makes sense to me.
Earlier in this thread I said the above. But Orkin and others have converted me. I didn't know any better as I have never shot with one of the tupperware stocks. But I can see what they are saying and thier logic. Makes sense to me. I applaud your honesty. For that, you have my respect.
In truth, I'd take one of the tupperware stocks over the hogue we are referring to here.
In truth, I'd take one of the tupperware stocks over the hogue we are referring to here.
LOL, I thought the Hogue was one of the tupperware stocks. I shoot with a McMillan A-5, what do i Know?
I shoot with a McMillan A-5, what do i Know? You obviously know better than to run a piece of shit stock. ;)
The hogue is rubber... even worse than the plastic (tupperware) found on other rifles.
I shot better with my 700 LTR with a SWFA 10x than I did with my SPS Tac with a Leupold Mk4. That stock is horrible.
OP. Buy a good stock and a SWFA SS 10x while you save up for a good scope. The SS is a good scope but a bit hindering being a fixed 10 power.
Orkan, and others.... Thanks for the insight. The stock will be the first thing to go. Rifle should be here this week, and spring isnt for a few months, so i have some time to save for a scope. Im pretty settled on the viper pst 4-16x50. Its only a 223, so i dont really see the need for the 6-24.
My other question was, what about the base and rings? I only want to do this once so i want something good. Thats another reson im just going to save up for some good glass. No reason in buying twice. It may be a month or two before i get her shooting, but it will be worth it.
Can anyone point me in the direction of some reading about elevation and wind reading?
Rings from Seekins Precision or Vortex, which I belive are made by Seekins(at least some of them).
The Optics and Mounts forum has a wealth of knowledge and insight for your searching pleasure. I'm not sure if it was here or at snipershide.com but I did find a fantastic thread on mounting and zeroing optics. Including bedding your base, lapping your rings and setting and checking your rotational alignment.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/C4132454-8414-4B10-9152-CBB1669A23E7-9332-00000FAF3A088E7B_zps5e65f27d.jpg
I just finished my SPS Tactical build and I vote +1 for a Vortex scope. This is a 6-24x50. So far I like it. It is probably all the scope i'll ever need, but I eventually plan to upgrade to a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x50 F1 after a while. The Vortex glass is clear. Turrets are very positive feeling, and the reticle is good. I took the setup out for the first time last weekend and ran some ammo through it. It was also my first time running the gun weak side (right) as I normally shoot rifles lefty. This was my last group of the day at 100 yards.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/616FD551-B617-4734-8153-9CD91DE29D78-8177-00000D00A5FD8A05_zpsed79cb5d.jpg
For base I went with Nightforce 20MOA. Good rings are Burris Xtreme Tactical. They seem to work well. If I upgrade scopes i'll upgrade to Nightforce Ultralight rings as well.
Orkan, and others.... Thanks for the insight. The stock will be the first thing to go. Rifle should be here this week, and spring isnt for a few months, so i have some time to save for a scope. Im pretty settled on the viper pst 4-16x50. Its only a 223, so i dont really see the need for the 6-24.
My other question was, what about the base and rings? I only want to do this once so i want something good. Thats another reson im just going to save up for some good glass. No reason in buying twice. It may be a month or two before i get her shooting, but it will be worth it.
Can anyone point me in the direction of some reading about elevation and wind reading?
Good tutorial here.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJUaiRIEduNXoal2_PkBZi0vDCIcEPxUn&feature=plcp
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