View Full Version : Hard Time Seeing Targets(age related)
Hey guys i have been lurking for awhile on this sight and have got some great info over time. I have been plinking for awhile with my entry level Ar 15 and thought it was time to move up to a better ar . I have bought a new colt le6920 and with the iron sights i can shoot good groups out to about 40 yards and then my age kicks in (49)and i can't see the targets very well. I am near sighted and can see the iron sights fine but the targets get tuff to see past 50 yards. Would a eotech or aimpoint help with targets past 50 yards?? Maybe some magnification with a eotech or aimpoint might help?? And i do wear glasses to drive with to see far off but they don't work well for shooting. My eyes are not real bad i can still read part of the 20/20 line at the docs office. Thanks for any info.
I'm 58, I know what you mean. I have an Eotech on my LMT and it's great for me out to 100-150 yards.
My latest build sports a Nikon P-223. It's a 3x fixed magnification. It's good out to 300 for me. It's also great at 25-50 yards. Target acquisition is pretty quick. It's a great little scope if that's the route you want to take. I'm not worth a crap with iron sights past 50 yards myself.
You may want to look at an Aimpoint PRO also but if you're looking for magnification it's going to be an expensive add on with either the Eotech or the Aimpoint.
Especially at age 49, your ability to focus on the front site of your AR while being able to focus on the target beyond 40 yards is impaired due to presbyopia. A red dot sight such as Eotech or Aimpoint will help a lot since the dot is projected onto the same plane as the target. If your lens correction allows you to see a 100 yard target well, your shooting at that distance will improve.
Insta-Gator
02-16-13, 17:32
I'm 59 and have the same problems. Been wearing bifocals for a while. Get some single lens (non-bifocal) glasses that can replace you protective eye wear. I also use a red dot sight (Lucid HD7) and it allows me to keep both eyes open and I just move the dot to what I'm looking at down range.
montanadave
02-16-13, 17:41
A 3x ACOG is your friend.
While not as fast as a one-trick RDS, my 1-4x Leupold VX-R Firedot is pretty nice. Some guys say its almost as fast as an EOTech or T1 for them. I wouldn't go quite that far, personally, but its nice. Just wish scopes/mounts were lighter.
In going with a magnified or non-magnified optic, consider what you're going to use the rifle for. If you're shooting is mostly 50 yards and in, an Eotech or Aimpoint RDS would be an excellent choice for you, and you'd still be able to use your iron sights if you ever need/want to. If your shooting is mostly further out, a magnified optic might work better...OR...you could add a 3x flip-to-side magnifier to your non-magnified optic. Those magnifiers will flip out of the way so you can use just the RDS or iron sights, and they're quick-detach so you pop it off the rifle if you don't need it and don't want the size and weight.
Same here, honestly I have an EOTECH and it helps a little but for my long shots I use a Leupold Mark AR 3x9. It allows me to see out to 300 yards. I had outstanding vision when I was in the service and had no problem shooting out to 200 meters with the iron sights. Today 50 yards is about my max. If you are doing tactical courses or something like that you can use an EOTECH with a 3x magnifier which depending on your eyes should get you out to 200 yards or even 300 for some people. You can also mount a scope like the Leupold Mark AR and install forty five degree iron sights and flip between the two. There are lots of good options for us old dudes. Pick the one that will work best for you and your budget.
http://www.eotech-inc.com/products/magnifiers
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/scopes/mark-ar-riflescopes/
Another optic I like a lot that is more cost effective than the options above:
http://www.burrisoptics.com/ar332.html
twistedcomrade
02-16-13, 19:27
Busting 40 sucks. I can still shoot irons fairly well, but not quite as good as when I was thirty. I have an Aimpoint on one AR and 1x4 Leupold on another and they both work well.
montanadave
02-16-13, 19:39
My eyesight has been crap since age eight (moderately severe myopia). Had LASIK around forty with good results, but by age fifty the presbyopia was getting bad enough to require readers. Then I needed cataract surgery a couple of years later.
Won't be long and I'll be posting a thread about which RDS would work for my new BCM blunderbuss. :laugh:
Won't be long and I'll be posting a thread about which RDS would work for my new BCM blunderbuss. :laugh:
LMAO!
Get a 1-4 scope, TR24,Swfa1-4, Meopta Zd
Thanks guys for all the great info keep it coming. Most of my shooting will be 50 to 200 yards out. There is so much to choose from its a little confusing to a novice shooter. I will study all the info you guys gave me and will check back in with more questions. I THINK i know what i want i just don't know what package does what at this time. Thanks again for the info.
TheAxeShooter
02-16-13, 22:29
Get a 1-4 scope, TR24,Swfa1-4, Meopta Zd
This. I'm sure getting some glass on top of that rifle will help you out quite a bit. I'm pretty young but I am near sighted. If I go shooting without contacts or glasses I have a pretty hard time seeing targets. Throw a decent piece of glass on top and you'll be good to go.
I'm a big believer in RDS, but most of my shooting is 50 yards and in. At 50-200 yards, I think I'd be inclined toward a 1-4x scope too.
Are you bench shooting or doing some training? It will make a difference in the best optic for your application.
I really, really, really should shoot southpaw rifle as my left eye is the better of the two. Quite a bit better. But I've been shooting rifles right-hand for almost 25 years now and it's like walking on one foot backwards shooting support hand. I try to do it because its good training, but I absolutely hate it. I would be a 10x better shooter if I would just discipline myself and shoot left handed. Lately, I don't go shooting enough. If I had better/quicker range access I could work on this with some serious intentionality. Lately, I'm just glad to have the time to get to the range when I do. Hope that changes soon. And yeah, I can hear 40 knockin' louder and louder.
halfmoonclip
02-16-13, 22:49
I'm mid-sixties and still shooting irons pretty well, and hate to see anybody giving up on them.
Just what exactly are you shooting at past 40 yards? Personally, I like to whack at clay birds on a berm at that distance, and can generally hit them, but don't expect to be shooting great groups offhand.
If you are shooting at clangers and other reactive targets at 100 yards, hits shouldn't be too difficult, especially if the clangers are painted a contrasting color.
How about silhouettes at greater distances?
While you say you are seeing the sights themselves, I've found that using a white-stripe XS front is a big help in picking out the front sight in a broken background, tho' I don't have the heart to put one in the M-16A1 clone.
Someone else asked if you can see the targets themselves when just looking at them, no rifle involved. Your prescription may need changing.
Also, not meaning to tell you something you already know, but you shouldn't actually be 'seeing' the rear sight, but rather letting your eye be centered on the 'brightest spot'; then all you have to worry about is putting the front sight on target.
Moon
Are you bench shooting or doing some training? It will make a difference in the best optic for your application.
rstang99 that is a good question. Today i was bench shooting trying to get my new colt sighted in with the iron sights and they work very well now when i can see the target. I use my ar15 for general entertainment and hog hunting and home defense if need be. In the near future i think i would enjoy doing some ar15 shooting events they look like a blast and a good way to learn more. Some call them competitions i call the fun.
Know the feeling at 50 an with stigmatism some days are just not good shooting days without glasses. When I was younger irons out to as far as most calibers could shoot was no problem now 200 yards is a chore!:mad: Now a days most of my shooting irons sport scopes !:rolleyes:
I think given your purpose I would look into a 3x9 scope with an iron sight backup. The reason for the mid power scope is your hog hunting and target range use. The iron sight for home defense, but honestly if you can find a laser (I'm not familiar with what is available for the AR market) for home defense it would be a good combination for your use. You need a little power for your hog hunting. Maybe some people here know of laser systems designed for HD/CQB on the AR15.
I took a quick look at Cheaper Than Dirt, they show quite a few options: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/prod/AR_15_Lasers
I'm sure there are others and maybe even preferred systems from the experts around here. The nice thing about a laser is just get the dot on the intruder and you are ready to fire.
I'm mid-sixties and still shooting irons pretty well, and hate to see anybody giving up on them.
Just what exactly are you shooting at past 40 yards? Personally, I like to whack at clay birds on a berm at that distance, and can generally hit them, but don't expect to be shooting great groups offhand.
If you are shooting at clangers and other reactive targets at 100 yards, hits shouldn't be too difficult, especially if the clangers are painted a contrasting color.
How about silhouettes at greater distances?
While you say you are seeing the sights themselves, I've found that using a white-stripe XS front is a big help in picking out the front sight in a broken background, tho' I don't have the heart to put one in the M-16A1 clone.
Someone else asked if you can see the targets themselves when just looking at them, no rifle involved. Your prescription may need changing.
Also, not meaning to tell you something you already know, but you shouldn't actually be 'seeing' the rear sight, but rather letting your eye be centered on the 'brightest spot'; then all you have to worry about is putting the front sight on target.
Moon
On my last ar all i used was my iron sights and i struggle to see my targets in the trees like today with the sun out and the shadows and the shade makes it tuff to see your target that's in the shade. Now if my target had a bright orange spot on it i could see it well. And yes when i was talking about my sights i was referring to my front sight sorry if i did not make that clear. Now i used the smaller hole on the rear sight not the bigger hole is that the correct way??And thank you for your question halfmoodclip.
The aimpoint or eotech with a swing away magnifier looks nice but it does add some weight.
The aimpoint or eotech with a swing away magnifier looks nice but it does add some weight.
However that weight from the magnifier is pretty far back on the receiver so it doesn't really affect the way the rifle swings or shoulders. I suppose it could be something to complain about if you have to carry the rifle all day, but that's why they make those nice padded slings.
This is a four inch target I shot today @ 200 yards using 55GRN FMJ American Eagle rounds and the Leupold Mark AR 3x9 scope. Its one 30RD magazine into it. 20MPH cross wind, 15F, and snow squalls like mad.
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc176/rstang99/2013-02-17_16-08-08_103_zps5af36175.jpg
Very nice-what is the minimum range you can shoot at and still see your target looking threw your scope??
Well the closest I have tried is fifty yards and it works fine at fifty yards. This is definitely more of a fifty to three hundred yard setup than a fast acquisition setup. Eyeballing it I don't think it's useful much closer than 25 yards or so.
I have a similar vision issue being 58, far sighted, needing reading glasses. I've got an Aimpoint Pro, really like. Starting another build, piecing out a bcm and not sure what optic to use. Considering moving the pro to the bcm and a 1x4 to my m&p..
Anyone have experience with the vortex viber pst? I'm wondering how different it would be at 1x than an rds as far as eye relief / parallax.
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-1-4x24-riflescope-with-tmcq-moa-reticle
Well the closest I have tried is fifty yards and it works fine at fifty yards. This is definitely more of a fifty to three hundred yard setup than a fast acquisition setup. Eyeballing it I don't think it's useful much closer than 25 yards or so.
Can you keep the stock front fsp and use a rear flip up sight with this scope??
63, nearsighted & bi-focals. But my shooting glasses are set for distance only as directed by the reps at Decot Hy-Wyd over the last 30+ years. http://www.sportglasses.com/
Works well *for me*. Not perfect with irons (duh), but I can still bang the 500 Meter gong (18x18"") with an iron sighted FAL.
@heat-ar
Not with my scope mount but I would guess there are ways to mount the scope and still keep the sights. I would have to research it further. If I only had one upper with this setup I would use offset sights. I have two uppers so I swap between the two. The CQB setup uses an Eotech and that does work with the front sight and flip up rear.
That's good info shootist i will check in to that. I have been thinking about talking to my eye doc about a little stronger lens just for shooting. MY glasses i have now work great for watching tv or driving.
That's good info shootist i will check in to that. I have been thinking about talking to my eye doc about a little stronger lens just for shooting. MY glasses i have now work great for watching tv or driving.
You also need to consider that the corrective part of your regular glasses is in the wrong place for shooting. With your head down on the stock your are looking through the upper part of your lenses. True shooting glasses allow for this - and also come with much bigger lenses and a bigger sweet spot for the Rx.
Decot was founded by a serious competitive trap shooter for this very reason - get your prescription in front of you and give them (or another dedicated maker of true prescription shooting glasses) a call. Your eye doctor just won't be able to get you there, unless you're very lucky and he's also setup (and experienced) in making actual shooting glasses.
I can do "OK" with my regular glasses if using a magnified optic, but not with irons - the shooting glasses are a must there. But of course, nothing works like young eyes.
Get a 1-4 scope, TR24,Swfa1-4, Meopta Zd
Yep, 54 here, bifocals, etc...
Steve Fisher turned me on to the TR-24 about 4 years ago, Super optic..
That makes perfect sense. When your shooting your glasses are at a angle and your eyes are looking straight some what.I think i explain it to myself right.LOL
It's the great equalizer, my 4X ACOG has all I need, and I think I'm the oldest poster.
I can tell you my groups improved dramatically by using an Aimpoint M-3. The results I'm getting (ranges of 175m down to 50) I've decided against a magnifier. Be nice if you could try some of these out before buying.
wetidlerjr
02-17-13, 20:25
I'm 65 and I need help beyond 50-75 yds. Also, I have found clarity to be as important as magnification.
I can tell you my groups improved dramatically by using an Aimpoint M-3. The results I'm getting (ranges of 175m down to 50) I've decided against a magnifier. Be nice if you could try some of these out before buying.
Van halen do you wear glasses?? I ask only because i would like to know how the aimpoint works looking threw glasses then looking threw the aimpoint at say 100 yards.
Van halen do you wear glasses?? I ask only because i would like to know how the aimpoint works looking threw glasses then looking threw the aimpoint at say 100 yards.
If your current glasses let you see your target, at whatever distance, clearly, then looking through an Aimpoint will let you see the target clearly and the dot will be in focus on the target (assuming any astigmatism you have is corrected by your prescription).
Presbyopia creates a different problem with iron sights. It's a solvable problem with the right prescription but it can lead to a kind of complicated discussion with your opthalmologist or optometrist and usually costs a lot of money.
It's true that shooting iron sights usually has you looking through the top of your eyeglass lens rather than the bottom where the near-correction usually is. You can experiment by adding a stick-on lens for the appropriate distance to your front sight. It's a pretty cheap way to go and has worked well for me.
http://mccollister.info/glasses.jpg
My glasses are for seeing far off like for driving. With my glasses on things up close let say within 3 ft thinks are a little blurry and since the aimpoint will be about a foot way or less i thought it might make looking threw my glasses and then looking threw the aimpoint blurry. With my glasses off i can see the front sight better but then i can't see the targets very well. Put my glasses on the front sight is a little blurry but then i can see the targets better. Which ever way i go there is a clarity issues. When i get time this week i will try call some of these company that make shooting glasses. And make some calls to aimpoint and eotech and see what they have to say on the issues. I am sure they have heard all these question before.
My slipping 59 year old eyes like the 1x4 scopes because I can focus the scope where the Aimpoint H1 I have on my other AR has no focus adjustments, so it's mostly for shots inside 200 yards.
A good 1x4 is most likely your best option if you want to make long range shots and still be able to use it in close quarters with both eyes open. Aimpoints and Eotechs are good out to 200 yards for most people but magnification increases your speed and accuracy beyond that range.
There are a number of quality 1-4s out there, pick one with the reticle that you like.....I chose the Burris XTR with the BDC reticle. Scope and ADM scout mount came to around $900.
You know Gunzilla when i first started looking for some optics sights a scope really never cross my nine.But the more info i get the more i and looking at 1-4 adjustable scope. If i get a scope i would like one with nice red dot (i think) or maybe a 2-5 or something like that.Thanks are you guys for your info it helps a lot.
My glasses are for seeing far off like for driving. With my glasses on things up close let say within 3 ft thinks are a little blurry and since the aimpoint will be about a foot way or less i thought it might make looking threw my glasses and then looking threw the aimpoint blurry. With my glasses off i can see the front sight better but then i can't see the targets very well. Put my glasses on the front sight is a little blurry but then i can see the targets better. Which ever way i go there is a clarity issues. When i get time this week i will try call some of these company that make shooting glasses. And make some calls to aimpoint and eotech and see what they have to say on the issues. I am sure they have heard all these question before.
Seeing far off, like looking at a 25-100 yard object the size of a golf ball? Like the bull on a paper target?
As I mentioned, the reticle of an RDS is projected onto the plane of the target, so you don't focus on the RDS reticle itself a foot away, you focus on the target and the reticle is superimposed on it, and in focus. I have presbyopia. I need about 1.5 diopters correction to focus on the front sight of my pistol and still be able to see the target well. Works great for pistols with iron sights. If I try to use that some lens correction shooting with my Eotechs or Aimpoints, I can't focus on the reticle. Eotechs become unusably pixelated and Aimpoint reticles become an unusable misshapen blob. Take my close-focusing glasses off and all is well. Both reticle and target are razor sharp.
If you get prescription glasses made to let you focus a foot away "on the Aimpoint", you won't see the reticle of the RDS clearly - it will be out of focus and you will be unhappy.
Do some reading on reflex sights and how they work. It might help you to understand how vastly different they are from the concept of iron sights and from rifle scopes.
You need to actually try an RDS of some kind on a rifle using your regular driving glasses. I certainly would do that long before dropping $300 on a pair of custom shooting lenses that will render your Aimpoint/Eotech less than useful.
If you do indeed decide to buy a magnified optic, that may very well solve your problems because such a scope will have a diopter adjustment on the eyepiece so that you can adjust it to your eyesight and be able to focus on the target image in the scope - you can adjust it to work either with your driving glasses on, or adjust it to work without them.
I've used 1-3 Weavers for years on a number of rifles, including AR's. Set on 1 it's quicker than any other sight. (if you get your mind right.) The newer 1-4's and 1-5's shoud be more of a very good thing. I'm thinking of mounting a 1-3 on a trap shotgun just to prove it'l work. The Weavers are rugged (I had one on a .458 magnum) and have a very heavy crosshair which can be picked up faster than any red dot. Of course your mileage may vary.
My eyesight has been crap since age eight (moderately severe myopia). Had LASIK around forty with good results, but by age fifty the presbyopia was getting bad enough to require readers. Then I needed cataract surgery a couple of years later.
Won't be long and I'll be posting a thread about which RDS would work for my new BCM blunderbuss. :laugh:
Same deal with the cataract surgery - took a course of steroids for an illness and the next thing you know, cataracts. I chose far vision so I need readers for up close.
I also noticed, as my pre-cataract presbyopia became apparent, that I would seemingly shift eye dominance when shooting pistol with both eyes open. My doctor said it was because my right eye (non dominant) was more myopic than my left eye and the brain sometimes does that. He suggested one close focus and one far focus contact, this worked okay, but I noted a loss of depth perception.
After the cataract surgery (which brought me to 20/15 20/25) I noted the same problem shooting with both eyes open. I talked to my ophthalmologist and we ended up with a .75 diopter magnification in my dominant eye, boy it does the trick.
I'm LE and retired Army reserve so I get my glasses through Oakley @ Standard Issue. I normally wear non-scrip m-frames or splices and keep the prescription glasses in my range bag.
The magnification in the left eye is so minute it doesn't really matter, that is just what I do.
My doctor is a gun guy, so he didn't freak out when we began discussing this - we measured the focal point in his office using my daily shooter Glock.
I shoot optics with both eyes open and really don't have a problem with the dot on the target.
YMMV
Lots of good info here, thanks for sharing!
I've used 1-3 Weavers for years on a number of rifles, including AR's. Set on 1 it's quicker than any other sight. (if you get your mind right.) The newer 1-4's and 1-5's shoud be more of a very good thing. I'm thinking of mounting a 1-3 on a trap shotgun just to prove it'l work. The Weavers are rugged (I had one on a .458 magnum) and have a very heavy crosshair which can be picked up faster than any red dot. Of course your mileage may vary.
That would be interesting to see. I'm thinking with even a wide field of view it is going to be hard to track a clay pigeon. However this is getting kind of off topic.
No Sir, no glasses. I might should be. I believe the difference is the eye is not trying to focus from target back to irons back to target. I've heard it explained but those things are beyond my knowledge. I've worked with friends that struggle hitting targets at 100m (effectively) with magnified optics. They can eat up a steel target using my rifle with an Aimpoint rapidly without strain. I also wonder if shooting through it both eyes open helps. Hard habit to get into, but extremely better method.
Also, with Aimpoints you focus on your target, not the dot. If you bring your focus back to the dot it WILL turn into a blob. Like I said before, it would be great if you could try some of these different optics to see what works for you.
I'm 65 and I need help beyond 50-75 yds. Also, I have found clarity to be as important as magnification.
Well @ 62 I guess I feel young again, but must totally agree that clarity is a major factor in "seeing" the target well enough to hit it.
Hmac you have a lot of good info and chris vogler at safe vision talk about glasses with the stick on lens (on my shooting eye) also to help see the front sight and use the other eye for the target when using iron sights . Super guy to talk to about perscription shooting glasses. And i talk to eotech today and they were very helpful also.The man i talk to there said he wears really thick glasses and looking threw the eotech with his glasses on it looks the same as if the eotech was not even there.But he said go to a bass pro shop or some place thats has them stock and put my glasses on and see what it looks like. Good ideal but its been hard to find them stock around here so far. I might have time to go to OKC later this week and check up there. Call Aimpoint today but they never call me back as of tonight. Thanks again for everybody's help.
Failure2Stop
02-18-13, 22:30
Hmac you have a lot of good info and chris vogler at safe vision talk about glasses with the stick on lens (on my shooting eye) also to help see the front sight and use the other eye for the target when using iron sights . Super guy to talk to about perscription shooting glasses. And i talk to eotech today and they were very helpful also.The man i talk to there said he wears really thick glasses and looking threw the eotech with his glasses on it looks the same as if the eotech was not even there.But he said go to a bass pro shop or some place thats has them stock and put my glasses on and see what it looks like. Good ideal but its been hard to find them stock around here so far. I might have time to go to OKC later this week and check up there. Call Aimpoint today but they never call me back as of tonight. Thanks again for everybody's help.
Both Aimpoint and EoTech work on the same principle. The dot focuses at distance, so if you can see a clear target, you will see a clear dot (depending on astigmatism and corneal damage).
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Another 59 year old checking in. I’m near sighted as well to the same degree in both eyes as well as being right eye dominant.
With Glasses – Target sharp, sights blurred
Without Glasses – Target Blurred, sights sharp
I ended up getting my optometrist to rebuild a pair of my safety glasses with polycarbonate lenses. The right lens (dominant eye) was ground flat, no correction. The left lens was ground with my prescribed correction. I now shoot iron sights (pistol and rifle) with both eyes open, the dominant right aims along the sights to the target while the left fills in the detail on the target. It takes a few sessions to get used to this setup but the glasses seem to fool the brain into a proper binocular image. If you have a pair of retired glasses you can experiment by removing one lens and trying it out.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj171/carlo1776/IMG-20130220-00170_zps27b53bb2.jpg
Hmac you have a lot of good info and chris vogler at safe vision talk about glasses with the stick on lens (on my shooting eye) also to help see the front sight and use the other eye for the target when using iron sights . Super guy to talk to about perscription shooting glasses. And i talk to eotech today and they were very helpful also.The man i talk to there said he wears really thick glasses and looking threw the eotech with his glasses on it looks the same as if the eotech was not even there.But he said go to a bass pro shop or some place thats has them stock and put my glasses on and see what it looks like. Good ideal but its been hard to find them stock around here so far. I might have time to go to OKC later this week and check up there. Call Aimpoint today but they never call me back as of tonight. Thanks again for everybody's help.
My daughter is/was an ophthalmology tech and I have two shooting buddies that are ophthalmologists. We've had long conversations about this very issue as my own eyes have become presbyopic. Your problem is fairly common. The fact that you're near-sighted in addition to presbyopic makes correction for shooting irons a little more complicated, but not excessively so.
The nice thing about red dot sights is that the same vision correction you need for distant vision works fine with the RDS. You can shoot both eyes open with your regular glasses. This is one reason for what appears to be an increased popularity of reflex sights for pistols, like the RMR. The nice thing about magnified optics is that they almost universally have a diopter adjustment to accommodate your vision. You can shoot them with one eye or both eyes depending on your preference. The problem comes in with iron sights because, unlike scopes or RDS where target and reticle are in the same plane, with irons you have to find a way to focus at two vastly different distances, something that your 49 year old eyes just can't do anymore. Monocular vision is one way to to it, a stick-on lens is another, but whatever, shooting with irons is an entirely solvable problem by a knowledgeable ophthalmologist or optometrist. Shooting with an RDS or scope shouldn't really require any creativity on the part of you or your eye care person. Even if you look through someone's RDS and find the reticle blurry, that more than likely just means that your prescription isn't correcting for any astigmatism as it should be.
Hey guys i have been lurking for awhile on this sight and have got some great info over time. I have been plinking for awhile with my entry level Ar 15 and thought it was time to move up to a better ar . I have bought a new colt le6920 and with the iron sights i can shoot good groups out to about 40 yards and then my age kicks in (49)and i can't see the targets very well. I am near sighted and can see the iron sights fine but the targets get tuff to see past 50 yards. Would a eotech or aimpoint help with targets past 50 yards?? Maybe some magnification with a eotech or aimpoint might help?? And i do wear glasses to drive with to see far off but they don't work well for shooting. My eyes are not real bad i can still read part of the 20/20 line at the docs office. Thanks for any info.
As I got into my 60's I had to stop using my Aimpoint's and EoTech's as I needed more help. Now at the end of my 60"s I need a magnified optic with excellent resolution to shoot at 100 yards and beyond. My scopes are usually Nightforce NXS either the 3.5-15X50 or the 5.5-22X50. For shooting over 600 yards I find I need the NXS 8-32X56 on my AIAW folder and my TRG 22.
Well i had my eye doc check me again. My eyes are the same as they were three years ago(first time ever being to one) 20/15 with my glasses and 20/25 without them. He thought my allergies were a big part of my problem. So he switch my eye drops for my allergies and told me to use a eye lubricant. AS of today my eyes feel and see so much better using that lubricant. Doc said some time when your eyes are watery like mine have been you need to lube them and i said i thought just the opposite and he said not to use the allergies drops unless my eyes are itchy.And some time he said you have to use both because allergies drop can dry your eyes out and that will causes the body to produce watery eyes.
This is good advice. Although it sounds almost counter intuitive, dry eyes with associated corneal irregularity is the major cause of excessive watering.
I can tell already i will be using less of my allergies drops and use more of my lubricant drops.My eyes have not drop a tear all day. :smile:
Bad (or in my case, old -and- bad) eyes are a curse. I've found the best compensation for me is ever better optics with ever increasing magnification. My use of Irons are about done, it's scopes or the red dots from here on but it is what it is. Makes you really appreciate those "braggin' groups" when they occasionally pop up.
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EzGoingKev
02-21-13, 18:19
I bought my 6920 with a 1x4 ACOG on it found the reticle on it to be too fine for my old eyes so I would recommend checking one out before buying one.
I bought my 6920 with a 1x4 ACOG on it found the reticle on it to be too fine for my old eyes so I would recommend checking one out before buying one.
Yes i agree some of the youtube video i have been watching some of the reticle are hard to see. And some of it might be that i am watching it threw a video but the red dot seems to be the easiest to see even on u-tube.
Bad (or in my case, old -and- bad) eyes are a curse. I've found the best compensation for me is ever better optics with ever increasing magnification. My use of Irons are about done, it's scopes or the red dots from here on but it is what it is. Makes you really appreciate those "braggin' groups" when they occasionally pop up.
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My eyes are not that bad i was just use to having great eyes for 40 years. I am seeing 20/15 now with my glasses and it still not as good as my eyes were when i was younger. So i think shooting with my irons sight(which i like to do) will be limited until the ammo prices come down and i can practice more with them.
I've been fortunate in that my right eye still sees well at distance, but like many, can't focus on the irons.
I guess the upside is that I get to try many different optics, and have found many expensive solutions to my dilemma :-).
...and I thought it was just me...glad to hear I'm not alone. I've had pretty serious myopia (-8.0 / -7.5) since ~ age 12. 25+ years of reading LOTS of documents, originally on crappy photocopies (often from microfiche), but for the past 15+ years almost exclusively on PC screens, and I think I'm now paying the price. Since my first carbine class several years ago I've been wondering why I had so much trouble at anything over ~75 yards with a T-1/M4 red dot. Then, as if to add insult to injury, in the past 2 years I've noticed that I just can't focus on anything after about 4-5PM, particularly on fine print up close. I've now got all sorts of pocket / wallet magnifiers stuffed all over the place for restaurants, etc.
I've been using 100% red dots to date (on carbines), but perhaps it's time to go with a variable optic? I can't afford/justify a Schmidt & Bender short dot - is the Trijicon TA24 a quality poor-man's substitute? Any other recommendations? (Intended uses are training classes and home defense.)
I am seriously near sighted with astigmatism. I am 43 and it is getting worse every year. I gave up on red dot sights and sold my aimpoint M2 about four years ago because of the blooming. The TR22 and TR24 have been a Godsend. I have zero bloom. Focus is easy and my hits are on target, as in POA vs POI.
But, I recently purchased an aimpoint T1 2moa because of using a friends. Working on drills I kind of made up, I found I could get decent grouping if I didn't take too long and sped up my thought process and trigger press. If I take too long, it blooms. Not a perfect fix but it beats my irons. I'm still "not bad" with irons, but after 100, hell, even fifty it is iffy.
So in closing, try trijicon. I am truly satisfied with my results and would recomend it to all with vision problems. If you have a red dot, try to quicken the pace, safely and you can find satisfactory results at close range.
JOHNNY51966
02-22-13, 06:14
For those who wear contact. I just went to the optometrist and told her the problem I was having. I am near sighted and the lenses were for distance so I couldnt see the front sights. She prescribed on contact in the dominant eye for distance and the other for up close vision. So far it has worked in the work world. I will try on the range this Saturday.
...and I thought it was just me...glad to hear I'm not alone. I've had pretty serious myopia (-8.0 / -7.5) since ~ age 12. 25+ years of reading LOTS of documents, originally on crappy photocopies (often from microfiche), but for the past 15+ years almost exclusively on PC screens, and I think I'm now paying the price.
This is an old myth that has no basis in fact. You won't damage your eyes or vision by reading in low light, reading a lot of fine print, or computer screens. It would be like saying that taking a picture with your camera in low light will damage it.
As the eye ages, you get decreased flexibility of the lens and it therefore loses its ability to reshape sufficiently to allow close focusing (presbyopia), and fatigue at the end of the day may exacerbate that, but that has nothing to with fine print or low light over the previous years.
I had a chance today to look threw some red dots they were mounted on hand guns but WOW what a difference compare to iron sights. With or without my glasses i could see the targets better. It might look different in the woods but still a big improvement.
I had a chance today to look threw some red dots they were mounted on hand guns but WOW what a difference compare to iron sights. With or without my glasses i could see the targets better. It might look different in the woods but still a big improvement.
This. My plan is red dots (in the generic sense since technology varies widely) for a CQB type defensive gun & scopes for distance work . When the eyes can no longer focus on both long and close objects you gotta do what you gotta do.
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Interesting Hmac - so, contrary to what I thought, it's not the repeated stresses placed on the muscle structures that reshape the lens (to change focus), but the naturally decreasing flexibility / pliability of the lens itself? I guess I'm ignorant - first time I've heard this - can you PM / post something (not too med journal-y) that might give me / others a head start on learning more?
If it's the lens itself, then are there implications (either positive or negative) for LASIK in one's 40's / 50's / later? Many thanks.
/not a doc
This is an old myth that has no basis in fact. You won't damage your eyes or vision by reading in low light, reading a lot of fine print, or computer screens. It would be like saying that taking a picture with your camera in low light will damage it.
As the eye ages, you get decreased flexibility of the lens and it therefore loses its ability to reshape sufficiently to allow close focusing (presbyopia), and fatigue at the end of the day may exacerbate that, but that has nothing to with fine print or low light over the previous years.
Interesting Hmac - so, contrary to what I thought, it's not the repeated stresses placed on the muscle structures that reshape the lens (to change focus), but the naturally decreasing flexibility / pliability of the lens itself? I guess I'm ignorant - first time I've heard this - can you PM / post something (not too med journal-y) that might give me / others a head start on learning more?
If it's the lens itself, then are there implications (either positive or negative) for LASIK in one's 40's / 50's / later? Many thanks.
/not a doc
https://www.google.com/search?q=presbyopia&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari
Loss of lens elasticity, enough that the ciliary muscles progressively lose their ability to overcome the stiffness of the lens and can't reshape the lens as well as they used to.
LASIK can be done at any age, but if you have both eyes corrected for excellent distant vision, you still won't be able to focus on near objects. IOW, LASIK won't counteract the effects of presbyopia - LASIK has nothing to do with the lens of the eye.
https://www.google.com/search?q=presbyopia&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari
Loss of lens elasticity, enough that the ciliary muscles progressively lose their ability to overcome the stiffness of the lens and can't reshape the lens as well as they used to.
LASIK can be done at any age, but if you have both eyes corrected for excellent distant vision, you still won't be able to focus on near objects. IOW, LASIK won't counteract the effects of presbyopia - LASIK has nothing to do with the lens of the eye.
I went and got checked out for LASIK and thats exactly the reason I didn't go for it and went low tech instead.
I do remember the first time i saw a eye doc he said something about when you get into your 40's the lenses have a harder time focusing if at all. Now why younger people or children have this problem i do not know since its not age related in them.
Leupold 1.5-5x CM-R2 has been nice on my "do all" AR.
My eyesight is good but I like more magnifcation in general.
I went and got checked out for LASIK and thats exactly the reason I didn't go for it and went low tech instead.
I have never check into lasik but some older people that have were told it could be done but at there age the eyes deteriorate fast and the good results you got from the surgery COULD be short live. Not putting this out there as fact, just 2 older people told me this from there eye doctors..
I went and got checked out for LASIK and thats exactly the reason I didn't go for it and went low tech instead.
There are some other options for correction of presbyopia. An artificial lens can be implanted that obviously has more flexibility. IIUC, it's used more after lens extraction for cataracts. Some places, it's used as a primary treatment for presbyopia but IMHO it's not necessarily a mature technology - the results aren't as predicable as LASIK. I've found it easier to just pick up cheap reading glasses from Amazon. I would gladly exchange good distant vision for good close up vision when I can just pick up a pair of cheap reading glasses for close-up vision. That's what I did when I opted for refractive keratoplasty 20 years ago. Now, I still don't need correction for 20/20 distant vision, but I do need readers. I use 2.5 diopters for reading and 1.5 diopters for seeing the front sight of my pistols.
The other option is monocular correction via LASIK. One eye is corrected for distant vision, the other for closer up. Not everybody's brain can handle that and process the two different focal lengths. With practice, I've found that it works for me, the reason I have a stick-on 1.5 diopter lens on the dominant eye of my shooting glasses and the other lens uncorrected.
I do remember the first time i saw a eye doc he said something about when you get into your 40's the lenses have a harder time focusing if at all. Now why younger people or children have this problem i do not know since its not age related in them.
In an otherwise normal eye, the lens in children is plenty flexible for close and distant focusing. It would be a problem if they are hyperopic (far-sighted). The shape of their eye might make them far-sighted enough that focusing close up exceeds the refractive capability of even a normal lens. That has nothing to do with the flexibility of the lens...it's about the shape of the eye.
/
There are some other options for correction of presbyopia. An artificial lens can be implanted that obviously has more flexibility. IIUC, it's used more after lens extraction for cataracts. Some places, it's used as a primary treatment for presbyopia but IMHO it's not necessarily a mature technology - the results aren't as predicable as LASIK. I've found it easier to just pick up cheap reading glasses from Amazon. I would gladly exchange good distant vision for good close up vision when I can just pick up a pair of cheap reading glasses for close-up vision. That's what I did when I opted for refractive keratoplasty 20 years ago. Now, I still don't need correction for 20/20 distant vision, but I do need readers. I use 2.5 diopters for reading and 1.5 diopters for seeing the front sight of my pistols.
The other option is monocular correction via LASIK. One eye is corrected for distant vision, the other for closer up. Not everybody's brain can handle that and process the two different focal lengths. With practice, I've found that it works for me, the reason I have a stick-on 1.5 diopter lens on the dominant eye of my shooting glasses and the other lens uncorrected.
/
The LASIK Dr. mentioned the 1 eye alternative but I realy didn't want to experiment with it as it's a one way proposition. I stuck with glasses (see my post on previous page of this thread)
From childhood until 40-43 I had 20-10 vision. I could see like a fighter pilot.
By 45 I occasionally needed a +1.00 reader. At 50 I began using prescription reading glasses 100% of the time.
At 53 the readers became distance glasses. I returned to the eye doctor.
At 54 (last fall) I wear bi-focals and qualify for cataract surgery but the Dr. wanted to wait due to this odd astigmatisum only found with fighter pilots. He wants to wait until he knows it is stable. The glasses aren't working so well today and my night blindness has become almost too severe to drive after dark. If I didn't have along business trip planned next month I would be back at the eye doctor today.
I can still shoot irons under 40 yards with glasses (I think this is only due to muscle memory). So, I set irons at 1:30 and put a 4x ACOG on the top rail. Currently this is working well. on the AR. I need to buy 2 more optics but am putting this purchase off due to the cataract surgery I will get by the end of the year.
As a visual person this has become a serious problem impacting all aspects of my life. Imagine having 30 power binocular eyes and going to crap eyes.
As a visual person this has become a serious problem impacting all aspects of my life. Imagine having 30 power binocular eyes and going to crap eyes.
I hear you. My brain turns 21 in June, unfortunately my body turns 60.
I hear you. My brain turns 21 in June, unfortunately my body turns 60.
My wife says I have a brain of a 15 year old.
guitarman008
02-23-13, 10:44
Especially at age 49, your ability to focus on the front site of your AR while being able to focus on the target beyond 40 yards is impaired due to presbyopia. A red dot sight such as Eotech or Aimpoint will help a lot since the dot is projected onto the same plane as the target. If your lens correction allows you to see a 100 yard target well, your shooting at that distance will improve.
Hmac,
Do Aimpoint red dot sights include a diopter adjustment, like a scope? I'm just concerned that I couldn't focus that close and it would all be a blur.
Hmac,
Do Aimpoint red dot sights include a diopter adjustment, like a scope? I'm just concerned that I couldn't focus that close and it would all be a blur.
No, there's no need for diopter adjustment. There's no need for close focusing. Your eyes focus on the target, not on the reticle (dot). The red dot is collimated, so it's projected in the same plane as the target. Your eyes focus on the target, not on the red dot.
Red dot sights are very simple to use. You look through it at the target, place the dot on the target, pull the trigger. If you see the target clearly and in focus, the red dot is in focus too. If you don't see the target clearly and in focus, then you have an eyesight problem, not an RDS problem.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Red_dot_reflex_sight_diagram.png
Not to complicate the issue, but parallax was mentioned. Most of these RDS are billed as "parallax-free". That's not exactly true, but parallax error is pretty minimal, especially at 50 yards and beyond. Closer than that and the parallax error is never any greater than the optical window (about 30mm) and far less than that if you have any kind of reasonably consistent cheek weld.
It's usually considered preferable to shoot an RDS with both eyes open. Doing so obviously allows a greater field of view and therefore better "situational awareness". Both eyes open has no effect on focusing or accuracy - the reticle is still superimposed on the target. In fact, you can completely cover up the far side of the optic and with both eyes open you will still see the reticle superimposed on the target as seen with the other eye.
Why1504 you made me remember a story. I got some chemicals in my right eye at work in 1988 and the doc flush it out and put a patch on that eye for a week i think. But i went back to the docs office and he took the patch off and everything look great. So i was ready to go and i was trying to leave and the doc said no sit back down and lets do a eye test. Everything went great and the only thing the doc told me was your eyes are great and good enough to be fighter pilots eyes. I never new what he meant by that until i got into my 40's. When i was younger i thought if you didn't wear glasses you saw the same thing i was seeing.But that was not the case i guess. With my glasses now i see 20/15 which is pretty good but it is still no where as good when i was younger. Off topic i know but why1504 made be remember the first time i really went to a eye doctor.
With my glasses now i see 20/15 which is pretty good but it is still no where as good when i was younger.
The fact that your eyes changed shape, causing myopia, as you got older is unrelated to presbyopia, which is only related to the lens of the eye.
No, there's no need for diopter adjustment. There's no need for close focusing. Your eyes focus on the target, not on the reticle (dot). The red dot is collimated, so it's projected in the same plane as the target. Your eyes focus on the target, not on the red dot.
Red dot sights are very simple to use. You look through it at the target, place the dot on the target, pull the trigger. If you see the target clearly and in focus, the red dot is in focus too.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Red_dot_reflex_sight_diagram.png
Not to complicate the issue, but parallax was mentioned. Most of these RDS are billed as "parallax-free". That's not exactly true, but parallax error is pretty minimal, especially at 50 yards and beyond. Closer than that and the parallax error is never any greater than the optical window (about 30mm) and far less than that if you have any kind of reasonably consistent cheek weld.
That's what i discover yesterday looking threw the red dot on a hand gun. Now the hand gun red dot mount might be out a little further because of the length of my arms and holding a hand gun where as the red dot will be place closer on a ar15 could be mounted closer if that matters. But with my far sighted glasses on or even with them off i like the red dot. The front iron sight seems to be blurring the target compare to the red dot.
When I was about 7 years old I remember going to the Dr. and him having me read the eye chart. He said "Read the smallest line you can read."
I replied, "Copyright 1959........"
He replied, "Where do you see that????"
I walked up to the chart and said, "Right here on the bottom."
He said, "Well your eyes are OK, I've never even seen that."
That's what i discover yesterday looking threw the red dot on a hand gun. Now the hand gun red dot mount might be out a little further because of the length of my arms and holding a hand gun where as the red dot will be place closer on a ar15 could be mounted closer if that matters. But with my far sighted glasses on or even with them off i like the red dot. The front iron sight seems to be blurring the target compare to the red dot.
The reason your front sight is blurring is that it is too close to your presbyopic eyes to be able to focus on.
Why are you even looking at the front sight if you're using a red dot sight? If you're using an RDS, the front sight on your rifle or handgun is totally irrelevant.
The distance of the Red Dot Sight from your eye, whether it's on a handgun, shotgun, or rifle makes absolutely no difference relative to focusing.
guitarman008
02-23-13, 12:16
The reason your front sight is blurring is that it is too close to your presbyopic eyes to be able to focus on.
The distance of the Red Dot Sight from your eye, whether it's on a handgun, shotgun, or rifle makes absolutely no difference relative to focusing.
Thanks Hmac, that clears it up!
I have not used a red dot on my rifle. Just on a hand gun yesterday and i did not used the sight on the hand gun no need with the red dot. I was talking about last weekend when i was using my ar the front sight seem to blur the target where as the hand gun yesterday with the dot did not blur the target. Two different location with each gun but about the same distance to the targets. And with the red dot the guy show me you can turn down the power and almost see thru the dot on the target. I like the red dot a lot and it work well with my glasses.
I have not used a red dot on my rifle. Just on a hand gun yesterday and i did not used the sight on the hand gun no need with the red dot. I was talking about last weekend when i was using my ar the front sight seem to blur the target where as the hand gun yesterday with the dot did not blur the target. Two different location with each gun but about the same distance to the targets. And with the red dot the guy show me you can turn down the power and almost see thru the dot on the target. I like the red dot a lot and it work well with my glasses.
If the FSB on an AR is blurring the target it means you're closing the other eye. Try shooting with both eyes open.
It seems to me that reflex sights on pistols are becoming more popular. They are a great way to manage aging eyesight.
I have use Chris Vogler at safe vision for my shooting glasses and i am trying to get in touch with him but the number i have is no longer in service (1-314-963-7567) does anybody here have his new number?
Travelingchild
02-20-15, 20:12
If the FSB on an AR is blurring the target it means you're closing the other eye. Try shooting with both eyes open..
This......
The easiest way to ensure both eyes open is leave the front cap on the red dot, looking through it you should be able to see red dot on black,
IF you're shooting with both eyes open then the brain will trick(superimpose) the target on the red dot,,,
If it doesn't then you don't have both eyes open..
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