View Full Version : General Purpose AR - Okay, it's a Recce Now...
Jay Cunningham
03-12-08, 10:31
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/8287/middy001au4.jpg
I have built up a general purpose carbine using all of the lessons I have learned over the past five years. I recently ran this mid-length carbine successfully in the Vickers/M4C staff/mod class. This is the third iteration of my primary carbine:
Sabre Defense M4 Upper
Colt BCG and charging handle
Sabre 16" chrome lined 1/7 barrel
Mid-length gas system
VLTOR flash suppressing compensator
PRI SS gas block, pinned
Daniel Defense M4 Rail 12.0
Daniel Defense picatinny QD pushbutton sling mount
LMT fixed front and rear (XS same plane aperture) irons (large knobs removed)
Aimpoint Comp3 (2moa) in ADM Cantilever mount
Tango Down rail covers
Viking Tactics light mount
SureFire G2 Nitrolon
Sabre Defense Lower
Colt internals
VLTOR receiver extension
VLTOR recoil spring and buffer
VLTOR E-Mod stock
Daniel Defense pushbutton QD receiver plate
Falcon Ergo grip
MagPul trigger guard
BFG/Vickers/G&R Combat Applications Sling w/sewn-in QD pushbuttons
Possible future options:
SureFire X series light (12:00 position)
BFG lightweight Redi-Mag
Schmidt & Bender Short Dot 2 in ADM mount
MagPul flip-up sights
Will this be your KISS rifle? :D
Jay Cunningham
03-12-08, 10:45
Will this be your KISS rifle? :D
That's as KISS as it gets for me!
Alright, I'll let my ignorance show. What is that G2 mounted on? Not what the light is being held in, but what is that in front of your front sight that the light mount is mounted on?
It is a 12" rail, so I am guessing that it is the rest of the rail, but it doesn't look like it.
Jay Cunningham
03-12-08, 11:34
Alright, I'll let my ignorance show. What is that G2 mounted on? Not what the light is being held in, but what is that in front of your front sight that the light mount is mounted on?
It is a 12" rail, so I am guessing that it is the rest of the rail, but it doesn't look like it.
As I stated above the G2 is in a Viking Tactics mount. It is simply attached to the front of the DD rail at the 9:00.
That is what I figured, the rail just looks funny in front of the covers. Thanks.
Jay Cunningham
03-12-08, 13:25
Very good setup.
C4
Thanks Grant. I suspect I'll be taking your advice and ditching the TD rail covers for some ladder type. I also will probably go with an X300 at the 12:00 sooner rather than later. The X300 demo was impressive to say the least. The G2 at the 10:30 does work very well though.
After seeing some of the setups at the recent class, I plan on a short (10.5" or 11.5") suppressed piston gun to suppliment my mid-length.
Thanks Grant. I suspect I'll be taking your advice and ditching the TD rail covers for some ladder type. I also will probably go with an X300 at the 12:00 sooner rather than later. The X300 demo was impressive to say the least. The G2 at the 10:30 does work very well though.
After seeing some of the setups at the recent class, I plan on a short (10.5" or 11.5") suppressed piston gun to suppliment my mid-length.
Suppressed 10.5/11.5 with a piston is really the cats ass.
C4
Jay Cunningham
05-02-08, 11:07
Tweaked a couple of things:
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/Thekatar/middy004.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/Thekatar/middy002.jpg
;)
Jay Cunningham
05-02-08, 11:23
I like it. A LOT.
Thanks dude. :D
The more I shoot this middy the more it gives me warm tingly feelings in my nether regions... I shot a few drills today and the muzzle barely moves... just a slight rise. It's very controllable and very, very accurate from what I have seen. I need to get it out on a longer range to see what kind of performance that Sabre barrel might be capable of.
I am also kicking around the idea of having the barrel either fluted or turned down to lightweight config for the bulk of its length - I'd be happy to hear opinions pro or con on this option.
Looks pretty sweet! I really like it and am considering going in a similar direction with my Middy, but keeping the standard FSB and a G2 in Vikings mount.
What's the barrel contour currently?
-RD62
Fluting is a waste of money. Having it turned down is definitely the way to go.
Unfortunately, no one makes a midlength, lightweight barrel that I like, and I'm a little leery of spending the kind of money that it would take to have them built to my satisfaction.
chillindrdude
05-02-08, 13:13
how are you activating that light? just flicking on with your hands? or are you planning to add a tape switch?
Jay Cunningham
05-02-08, 13:27
how are you activating that light? just flicking on with your hands? or are you planning to add a tape switch?
No tape switch, I hate them. Activates with support side thumb, no problem.
New config is similar to my primary GP and how I was essentially planning on setting up a Noveske Recce N4 if the tax man hadn't taken my budget.
I like the fixed front and rear BUIS with an Aimpoint as well, but I'm thinking I might do flipup in the rear just to be able to run a magnifier if I want to. I'll just run it in the "up" unless the magnifier is on the gun.
Jay Cunningham
05-02-08, 13:47
I like the folding Troy rear with a fixed front myself, but I tried the fixed rear this time. With a lower third co-witness it's not really an issue - but I do like the rear folded down.
Looks good Bub!
Wish I had one of those ADM mounts--
Did you get another Vickers sling?
Jay Cunningham
05-02-08, 13:49
Did you get another Vickers sling?
Yeah, I'm a real sucker - I bought the most expensive variant (I think)... the GrantHawk Tactical sewn-in QD pushbuttons and the padded sling. It works really well.
Hope someone gets you a nice ADM mount! ;)
Given any thought to adding a Redimag to your rifle Katar? It's something I'm kicking around myself right now. I'm thinking of picking up one of the BFG lightened versions. At $160+/- new I'd sure like to find a used one somewhere though. I'm stuck on the weight issue as well.
PALADIN-hgwt
05-02-08, 16:03
xxxxx
Jay Cunningham
05-02-08, 16:22
Given any thought to adding a Redimag to your rifle Katar? It's something I'm kicking around myself right now. I'm thinking of picking up one of the BFG lightened versions. At $160+/- new I'd sure like to find a used one somewhere though. I'm stuck on the weight issue as well.
One of them just arrived from BFG - it's been on backorder since the beginning of March.
:p
toddackerman
05-03-08, 10:09
Very good setup.
C4
I also agree. You gaotta love a "Middy" for general purpose and reliability.
warrior9504
05-03-08, 13:27
Like the fixed sights...I assume you can co-witness those in your CCO? I picked up a Trijicon Reflex the other day on Gunbroker for a steal....guess that means I need to go buy a gun to put it on:D
BushmasterFanBoy
05-03-08, 14:10
Is there anyway you could take a picture of the sight picture?
I was wondering how much the light sticks into the sight picture. Can you even notice the Surefire?
Jay Cunningham
05-03-08, 19:12
Like the fixed sights...I assume you can co-witness those in your CCO? I picked up a Trijicon Reflex the other day on Gunbroker for a steal....guess that means I need to go buy a gun to put it on:D
They co-witness in the lower third of the optic.
Jay Cunningham
05-03-08, 19:13
Is there anyway you could take a picture of the sight picture?
I was wondering how much the light sticks into the sight picture. Can you even notice the Surefire?
Umm... I suppose I could but I think maybe gotm4 already has a pic of that - it doesn't obscure the sight picture at all.
Robb Jensen
05-04-08, 07:07
Umm... I suppose I could but I think maybe gotm4 already has a pic of that - it doesn't obscure the sight picture at all.
Here you go here's my 10" SBR.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/gunpics/a30e3ed9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/gunpics/4df207a7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/gunpics/735336c0.jpg
How did you remove the big knobs on the LMT sights?
Jay Cunningham
05-04-08, 12:07
How did you remove the big knobs on the LMT sights?
That was a custom bob-job by gotm4.
Jay Cunningham
02-08-09, 20:42
So I took my "general purpose AR" out for some shooting today. This firearm has evolved into what I like to call a "pseudo-recce" - it now wears an S&B Short Dot, but it still has a stock trigger and it has the stock Sabre barrel. I also decided to slap my HALO onto the VLTOR comp:
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/Thekatar/ATT00004.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/Thekatar/ATT00017.jpg
I shot 75 gr. TAP (red and black box) through it and I was able to keep my bullet holes covered with a single shot paster at 75 yards. I was mainly concerned with getting dialed in exactly at 50 yards so that it will be easier to get it dialed in at 200.
Some items of note: the 75 gr. TAP failed to lock my bolt back on the last round. I shot some 55 gr. Lake City and it locked back my bolt just fine. It also had a very minimal POI shift from the TAP at 50 yards. I also shot several rounds of some type of black-nosed "subsonic" ammo that the guy who sold me my HALO gave me. These rounds were pretty quiet but they cycled the weapon just fine and locked back my bolt. These shot low and to the right by several inches at 50 yards.
All rounds were shot suppressed.
Jay Cunningham
02-08-09, 21:03
Thanks fellas. This was my cell phone camera on an overcast day - and I'm not the best photographer to begin with!
A lot of guys were sniffing around at the range while I was trying to shoot... I suppose it was a bit more exotic than they are used to. Didn't get any "watcha need that fer" though!
:D
While they sure do look cool. I am not actually a fan of fluted Barrels...my experiences derive from shooting Light Varmint Class and Rimfire Benchrest Rifles which I had fluted to bring my rifle into proper weight classes and not so much to take advantage of the other benefits associated with fluting Bbls.
Fluting adds surface area which helps dissapate heat just like a heat sink in electronics, radiators etc.... The cuts also make the barrel stiffer. But...when these flutes are cut if they aren't done properly as in being cut to the exact same tolerances for depth and length. The barrel will tend to warp to the weaker side and walk shots as the Bbl heats up. If you have it fluted...have someone who has enough machinist experience in this technique.
That is a fine looking weapon project you have going on there.
Jay Cunningham
02-08-09, 21:11
I am not going to modify the barrel in any way - it is a stock Sabre mid-length 1/7 chrome-lined barrel. Sabre is known for making very good standard barrels. If I really decide to go crazy some day I may get a higher quality stainless barrel - but I want to see how well this one shoots out to 300 or so first. More than likely I will leave it as-is. It's a very good carbine and I've run the guts of it through as least four classes with no issues of any kind.
MisterWilson
02-08-09, 23:37
How do you like mounting the sling by the receiver endplate instead of on the stock?
Jay Cunningham
02-09-09, 03:56
How do you like mounting the sling by the receiver endplate instead of on the stock?
I have settled on this position as the very best option for me. It allows me (with the use of the Vickers sling) to transition shoulders without dropping my arm out of the sling.
Littlelebowski
02-09-09, 06:01
Middys shoot so nice.... Are you not going to put on a VFG? Do the ladder covers protect your hand enough during prolonged fire?
QuickStrike
02-09-09, 06:06
Awesome set-up! May have to copy that "pseudo-recce" idea when I get some gun monies. :cool:
Jay Cunningham
02-09-09, 06:12
Middys shoot so nice.... Are you not going to put on a VFG? Do the ladder covers protect your hand enough during prolonged fire?
lol
Note the little section of ladder cover missing in the middle of the bottom rail? Just big enough for a TD VFG... those throw levers sure are handy.
I have never had an issue with ladder style covers not protecting either my hand or the rail.
Littlelebowski
02-09-09, 06:17
Yeah, the extra money for the throw lever is well worth it. I'm digging my stubby quick release on my 5.45.
Parabellum9x19mm
02-09-09, 07:05
LL check out the BOBRO shorty VFG
my favorite QD vert-grip. the price is in the same neighborhood as the ADM/TD and cheaper than the LaRue FUG
TD is too thick for my liking.
N.Y.45 ACP
02-10-09, 08:57
[QUOTE=The_Katar;137816]Thanks Grant. I suspect I'll be taking your advice and ditching the TD rail covers for some ladder type.
Katar,
What was Grant's advice that made you change to ladder type rail covers ?
Did you not like the extra thickness the TD's gave to the rail?
Middys shoot so nice.... Are you not going to put on a VFG? Do the ladder covers protect your hand enough during prolonged fire?
Yes they do.
C4
Jay Cunningham
02-10-09, 09:30
Thanks Grant. I suspect I'll be taking your advice and ditching the TD rail covers for some ladder type.
Katar,
What was Grant's advice that made you change to ladder type rail covers ?
Did you not like the extra thickness the TD's gave to the rail?
There was no need for the extra bulk.
I'mGatMan!
02-11-09, 10:55
At the risk of showing myself to be totally uninformed, what makes this a GP gun?
Jay Cunningham
02-11-09, 11:10
At the risk of showing myself to be totally uninformed, what makes this a GP gun?
Nothing besides my opinion that it is capable of doing all things reasonably well.
I'mGatMan!
02-11-09, 11:12
Ah...I see.
Thanks.
Jay Cunningham
03-26-10, 23:02
So I took my "general purpose AR" out for some shooting today. This firearm has evolved into what I like to call a "pseudo-recce"
Okay, so this thing finally evolved into a real recce. :D
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/Thekatar/0325101419-00.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/Thekatar/0325101420-01.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll200/Thekatar/0325101421-00.jpg
Pulled the factory barrel and upgraded to a BCM 16" SS410™ Barrel with Mid Length Gas 1/8 Twist. Also added a Geissele AR15 Super Semi-Automatic Trigger. I'm also using the Danger Close mount for the Scout Light. The next thing will be to swap the Short Dot for a Nightforce NXS 2.5-10 x 32.
So far it seems to like Federal Premium. 69 gr. the best...
Looks awesome, Brother. I think you'll really like the NF 2.5-10x32.
SWATcop556
03-27-10, 09:01
I've been thinking of turning one of my middys into a recce. Thanks for the final push. Looks good!
Jay Cunningham
01-30-12, 22:26
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/378452_347775438569173_100000101601239_1521794_1283135947_n.jpg
What's the new optic?
Do you find the weight gain of the stainless barrel to be an acceptable tradeoff for the accuracy improvement?
I asked ADCO about the weight savings on their WOA barrel fluting and they say it gets down to 1 lb 9 oz. which is two ounces lighter than the Noveske N4 and only 3 oz. heavier than the Colt A1-profile barrel.
I'm hoping to take Shrek's long range class later this year and am thinking of what I want to put together for it.
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