View Full Version : 6920 accuracy?
I took my 6920 out shooting a little yesterday and was amazed. I had the gun zeroed already and was just wanting to play around a little to pass the day. I was shooting some Brown Bear ammo and it was all over the place. Scared me a little. I had about 5 rnds of some Remington UPC to run through it and was a somewhat better. There was a fella there that was playing with some handloads and let me shoot 3 of his loads and it was again better than the remington stuff. I was shooting at 50 yds and shooting off a sandbag. The Brown bear was like 6" group. The handload was just a 3 shot group and was about 1 1/2" at 50. Is this normal as far as accuracy? I know its not a precision rifle. I have one that I shoot High Power with and it shoots very good. I have some xm855, xm193(or maybe just m193), and some PMC Bronze on the shelf. Just wanted to waste the Brown Bear ammo instead of the 'better stuff'
kenken
I cant speak to the 6920...but it is Colt and should perform at 50yds.
Did you check the zero? By that I mean if you had it zero'd before...and now it is not as accurate...could it have shifted?
If i had this issue i would get some good ammo...and go through the zero process again.
Word to the wise, do NOT shoot others hand loads...:stop:
What weight of bullet did you zero your gun with? If you zeroed with 55gr for example and then start slinging 62gr you will see some POI changes. Also nothing you mentioned ammo wise is "the good stuff" for testing out pure accuracy. :)
What weight of bullet did you zero your gun with? If you zeroed with 55gr for example and then start slinging 62gr you will see some POI changes. Also nothing you mentioned ammo wise is "the good stuff" for testing out pure accuracy. :)
At 50yds would weight matter? I have a basic(very basic) understanding of grain wgt and twist, Im not challenging your statement, Im asking because I honsetly dont know.
It was still around the zero, just opened up. I was shooting all over the paper.
The thought about 'someone's handload' just about the time I pulled the trigger on the first one. I probably wouldn't have if he wasn't shooting them beside me out of his AR. Is there a general ammo that everyone uses to get a zero or just let it ride. I try to pick up brass case ammo. I bought some steel cased brown bear for playing and was surprised at the scattered pattern it showed, off bags, at 50 yds.
kenken
IIRC it goes deeper than just bullet weight, the bullet loadings, recoil and other factors play a part. I'm sure an expert will be along soon.....
:)
Using cheaper plinking ammo (55gr FMJ, 62 FMJ) you can expect 3"-5" groups at 100 yards. If you are using more precision ammo (69gr boat tail, 77 gr boat tail) then you can expect groups around 1"- 1.5" at 100 yards.
It was still around the zero, just opened up. I was shooting all over the paper.
The thought about 'someone's handload' just about the time I pulled the trigger on the first one. I probably wouldn't have if he wasn't shooting them beside me out of his AR. Is there a general ammo that everyone uses to get a zero or just let it ride. I try to pick up brass case ammo. I bought some steel cased brown bear for playing and was surprised at the scattered pattern it showed, off bags, at 50 yds.
kenken
Shoot some Hornady Tap, very accurate amo.
Word to the wise, do NOT shoot others hand loads...:stop:
This is great advice, I blew up an upper doing this.
I would get fresh 1st commercial loads of quality in a grain that matches your twist rate. My agency goes between ranger partition and lake city..whatever is cheaper. Thats govt purchase though...so probably not the best way of doing it.
This is great advice, I blew up an upper doing this.
Yea, I won't do this again, guaranteed.
I pretty much buy ammo as I run across it. I would like to try some TAP ammo but it is as hard to find as bigfoot around here in East Texas. Don't have anything over 62grn.
kenken
I feel that the Brown Bear ammo was my problem and until I get some better ammo, that I am willing to consume, everything is probably normal. substandard ammo.
kenken
Ammunition has a lot of effect on accuracy. Shoot some good factory ammunition and you should see a marked improvement.
I think you had a bad day on the range, independent of the gun.
Expect less of the Brown Bear, but even that will shoot 5-6" at 100.
Group measurements of <5rds aren't of any real value. In a three round group, one is good, one is bad, and one can be either. 5rds is a start. 10rds is more optimal.
I had a bad range day a week or so ago, with some account for being cold and windy. Here's what I got from these two guns, compare to yours.
6720, T1 RDS (3 MOA), 5 Rounds @ 50yds, Monopod
Speer 24447, ~1.5" max spread, +.7" U, +.4" R of POA
Corbon 55 FMJ, ~2" max spread, -.6 D, -.1 L of POA
XM193, 55 FMJ, ~1.3" max spread, -1.5 D, +.9 R of POA
AE223AF, 55 FMJ, ~2.5" max spread, -1.2 D, +.8 R of POA, vertical string
BCM 11.5", Iron Sights, 5 Rounds @ 50yds, Monopod
Speer 24447, ~1.8" max spread, +1.5" U, -.2 L of POA
Corbon 55 FMJ, ~1.6" max spread, -.6" D, O l/r of POA
AE223AF, ~3" max spread, -.2 D, +.5 R of POA, vertical string
The ammo was a factor to some point, a 6920 is a battle rifle not a SPR but I consistently get sub 3" groups a 50 yards with my fighting carbines - BCM's and Colts running M855 in a "tactical application". Basically shooting off hand, moving, etc. on the bench you can drop that 50 yard grouping to 2" or so but really for a fighting gun 3" is more than adequate.
Failure2Stop
02-17-13, 11:52
I took my 6920 out shooting a little yesterday and was amazed. I had the gun zeroed already and was just wanting to play around a little to pass the day. I was shooting some Brown Bear ammo and it was all over the place. Scared me a little. I had about 5 rnds of some Remington UPC to run through it and was a somewhat better. There was a fella there that was playing with some handloads and let me shoot 3 of his loads and it was again better than the remington stuff. I was shooting at 50 yds and shooting off a sandbag. The Brown bear was like 6" group. The handload was just a 3 shot group and was about 1 1/2" at 50. Is this normal as far as accuracy? I know its not a precision rifle. I have one that I shoot High Power with and it shoots very good. I have some xm855, xm193(or maybe just m193), and some PMC Bronze on the shelf. Just wanted to waste the Brown Bear ammo instead of the 'better stuff'
kenken
That is not acceptable precision.
A 6920 should turn in 2 to 3 inch groups at 100 meters with decent-ish ammo.
The only ammo I have ever had that didn't meet that expectation was a random lot of Prvi M193, which was shooting 6-10 inch groups at 100. Double checked it against other ammo before concluding that the ammo was to blame.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
I owned a Colt 6920 for a while and it shot really well with Hornady V-Max 55g ammunition. The projectile had a gray tip. I fired more than a few 10 shot 1" groups at 100 yards with it. Buy a box of it and try it out.
I would try other ammo and shoot at least 5 or 10 round groups.
Hey IG, anything you would personally recommend as for as ammo? 62,55,75 grain? What do you use?
Kenken
I shoot whatever's clever. But I stay away from the Bears, Tula, etc.. Hornady Steel TAP, M193, M855 have all proven to be good in my stuff.
At 50yds would weight matter? I have a basic(very basic) understanding of grain wgt and twist, Im not challenging your statement, Im asking because I honsetly dont know.
POI can be noticeably different at 50 yards when talking about slow fire supported target shooting.
These were shot at 50 yards in a stock (other than Geissele trigger) 6920. No sandbag or other artificial support, just the magazine on the deck, and shot somewhat quickly. Some flyers (like the one RA556B) were all my fault. Notice how far off the POI is on the 50gr TSX.
Three of the five weren't even on the paper! (but I know they were down there to the bottom left, where the arrow points, as they were on the cardboard backing)
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20130122_115455_zpsf89f0ded.jpg
What you are missing is that once you go below 55gr. the difference is going to be more pronounced. I have shot 55 and 62 back to back with very little difference. I did see a difference from 62 to 75gr.
POI can be noticeably different at 50 yards when talking about slow fire supported target shooting.
These were shot at 50 yards in a stock (other than Geissele trigger) 6920. No sandbag or other artificial support, just the magazine on the deck, and shot somewhat quickly. Some flyers (like the one RA556B) were all my fault. Notice how far off the POI is on the 50gr TSX.
Three of the five weren't even on the paper!
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20130122_115455_zpsf89f0ded.jpg
What you are missing is that once you go below 55gr. the difference is going to be more pronounced. I have shot 55 and 62 back to back with very little difference. I did see a difference from 62 to 75gr.
True. But those 50gr bullets are all copper and thus longer than typical/standard lead core bullets would be at that weight, correct?
I'd have to look it up, but I'll bet the 50gr all copper bullets aren't far off the lenght of 55gr lead core?
Opposite experience.I bought two 6920's in December.One remains unfired,the other very accurate with 55,62,69,and 75 gr ammo.I havn't even touched the sight setting on it,and am using the carry handle sights just as it came from the box
I need to take the time to really zero when I can,all this was 200 yds and in. It could change.
Word to the wise, do NOT shoot others hand loads...:stop:
^ This. Shooting any unknown handloads are asking for trouble :dirol: It looks like the Brown bear ammo may have been the issue.
Better ammo is more expensive and harder to find, but it usually has better results in your rifle.
Hey IG, anything you would personally recommend as for as ammo? 62,55,75 grain? What do you use?
Kenken
If you are trying to find the capabilities of your 6920 I would suggest trying some of the Black Hills MK262 Mod1, their (or others' match loaded) .223 77 or 69 grain SMK loads or the 75 grain Hornady TAP loads. These should reveal what you might expect from your 1:7 twist barrel and I might add, do very well in mine. The comments regarding POI shift between loads are spot on. In my (scoped) 6920 the MK 262 prints the 77 grain SMK more differently from the Black Hills . 223 match loading with the same bullet than one might think.
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FWIW: Prvi Partizan .223 75gr BTHP match ammo is pretty good for the money. Right around the election they were $9.50/20 at SGAmmo.
The best part? In my 6920 the POI is, for practical purposes, identical to Federal XM193.
POI in my 6920 is basically identical for:
Federal XM193 (what I use to set the zero)
Federal XM855
Prvi Partizan 75gr match BHTP
Prvi Partizan M193
But PMC XTAC XP193 has a little different POI, despite supposedly being an M193 like the others.
You just need to go try different loads to find good complimentary rounds.
My 6920 really likes these loads, if you're looking for accuracy checks...
Mk262 (Mod 1)
BHA 60 VMAX, 68 OTM
Hornady 60 TAP
Speer 55 GDSP (24446)
Corbon 55 BK
There are more, but those have distinguished themselves in the gun.
Opposite experience.I bought two 6920's in December.One remains unfired,the other very accurate with 55,62,69,and 75 gr ammo.I havn't even touched the sight setting on it,and am using the carry handle sights just as it came from the box
I need to take the time to really zero when I can,all this was 200 yds and in. It could change.
I don't know if Colt sights 'em in or not, but I once took a 6920 out of the box, loaded it and shot a carbine match with it. It rang 6" plates at 100 with ease. I was surprised to say the least.
After the match I shot it at paper and it was right in the middle and 2" high at 100. I'm guessing they have set 'em for 25/300 since I tend to shoot low with irons (I can't see as good as I used to).
Mine is 3-4" @ 100 yards with bulk 55 gr PMC.
TheyCallMeGmoney
02-17-13, 18:46
This was from last weekend. This was my first real outing with my 6920 after I had got it sighted in. ( don't worry about the body shots, just messing around) the head shots are 1 Mag of 28/29 55gr ammo and I was using a red dot at a little over 50 yards away seated, and mostly I was just pointing and shooting at the brain stem. Some with rapid fires. So I would say not bad grouping for my first time with my first AR and just messing around. Pretty great accuracy.
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q754/Theycallmegmoney/image_zpscaf8643f.jpg
Did you say CLIP...:dirol:
I don't know if Colt sights 'em in or not, but I once took a 6920 out of the box, loaded it and shot a carbine match with it. It rang 6" plates at 100 with ease. I was surprised to say the least.
After the match I shot it at paper and it was right in the middle and 2" high at 100. I'm guessing they have set 'em for 25/300 since I tend to shoot low with irons (I can't see as good as I used to).
2" high at 100 is probably a 50/200 zero.
A 25 yard zero is pretty high at 100 yards. Like, 6" or more high
This sticky should explain it pretty well
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=65679
TheyCallMeGmoney
02-17-13, 18:58
Did you say CLIP...:dirol:
Lol You got me :dance3:fixed:dance3:
I shot my new colt le6920 yesterday and the first ammo i used was fed 556 xm193f 55 grain. And at 40 yards it was 4inches low and about 4 inches to the left off center. I made a few adjustments and the next 5 shots were about 2 inches low off of center but that is in the bullseye on my targets. The fed xm193f 55gr. work very well with my colt. So i try some m193 556 55gr. that i bought and it was in a plain white box no name on the box. I shot 10 of those and they were all within 3 inches of the center of the target. So then i try some hornady 556 nato 55gr. and they did not work well for me yesterday. Of the 10 hornady i shot they were all low and to the left of center 7 to 8 inches off center. Next in line was some winchester 223 rem 55gr. fmj and 8 of the 10 were bullseye and the other 2 were just out side of the bullseye. I am going to spend some more time with my hornady ammo #80278 556 55gr.hp just to make sure it was not me. I thought the colt did very well for the first time shooting it and my hard time seeing my targets in the shadows.
Just to update, I went back to the range yesterday morning when no one was there and spent some time with my 6920. This time I took some xm193 62grn that I was willing to sacrifice and check the gun's accuracy. All I can say is, the brown bear ammo was definetly the problem. The 193 ammo was shooting very well. At 50 yds it was putting 3/4" to 1 1/4" inch groups on paper shooting off a single bag. I am pleased now. I am sure it would do better if it had a crisp, light trigger but I don't need one in it.
Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it.
kenken
Good to hear. Im sure you feel better.
my rifle was zero'd with LC M193. when I shoot Tula, the poi is the same but the group opens up a bit. also, I zero'd it at 100yds so it shoots about 1.5" low at 50yds. (still on the way up I suppose). I'm a bit new to the AR scene so I enjoy reading these kinds of threads.
This was from last weekend. This was my first real outing with my 6920 after I had got it sighted in. ( don't worry about the body shots, just messing around) the head shots are 1 Mag of 28/29 55gr ammo and I was using a red dot at a little over 50 yards away seated, and mostly I was just pointing and shooting at the brain stem. Some with rapid fires. So I would say not bad grouping for my first time with my first AR and just messing around. Pretty great accuracy.
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q754/Theycallmegmoney/image_zpscaf8643f.jpg
That accuracy will def get the job done.
texasgunhand
02-24-13, 11:17
that brown bear didnt help matters any at all..
Failure2Stop
02-24-13, 11:27
Just to update, I went back to the range yesterday morning when no one was there and spent some time with my 6920. This time I took some xm193 62grn that I was willing to sacrifice and check the gun's accuracy. All I can say is, the brown bear ammo was definetly the problem. The 193 ammo was shooting very well. At 50 yds it was putting 3/4" to 1 1/4" inch groups on paper shooting off a single bag. I am pleased now. I am sure it would do better if it had a crisp, light trigger but I don't need one in it.
Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it.
kenken
XM193 is 55 grains.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Just to update, I went back to the range yesterday morning when no one was there and spent some time with my 6920. This time I took some xm193 62grn that I was willing to sacrifice and check the gun's accuracy. All I can say is, the brown bear ammo was definetly the problem. The 193 ammo was shooting very well. At 50 yds it was putting 3/4" to 1 1/4" inch groups on paper shooting off a single bag. I am pleased now. I am sure it would do better if it had a crisp, light trigger but I don't need one in it.
Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it.
kenken
It's good to hear you got this worked out. If you get that kind of accuracy with XM193 55g ammunition, imagine what you can do with 62g or 64g ammunition. If you can shoot 3" groups at 100 yards with the XM193, I would use that as training ammunition.
XM193 is 55 grains.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
I'm sorry, your right. It was 62grn, just 855 and not 193. Didn't mean to mislead in any way.
Kenken
I'm sorry, your right. It was 62grn, just 855 and not 193. Didn't mean to mislead in any way.
Kenken
I'm not surprised it was much more accurate than the Brown Bear.
And I'll wager that M193 will probably be even more accurate than the M855 was. :)
Failure2Stop
02-25-13, 22:01
I'm sorry, your right. It was 62grn, just 855 and not 193. Didn't mean to mislead in any way.
Kenken
No worries, didn't think that you were being intentionally dishonest, just making sure that the information flow is correct.
M193 works really well in my 6920.
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