View Full Version : Info/opinions of IMR 8208XBR
Hearing this mentioned more than I payed attention before, but interested in folks feedback with 8208. I see mention of it good for SBRs, light bullets, etc.
Looking for the full monty here, so any info on performance(chrony results), barrel lengths, charge amounts/bullet weights and accuracy results, etc.
TIA...
My data is incomplete since our range got flooded due to a broken sprinkler pipe a little over a month ago.
Some of the best things I like best about XBR is that it is temperature stable, meters well, and has virtually no flash even when used with my JP muzzle brake.
Rifle is a Norinco AR 15 with a 14.5" chrome lined hammer forged barrel 1-9" twist.
Bullets are 55gr Hornady FMJ-WC cases are Federal and primers are CCI 400.
I will restart my testing with both the Norinco and a Stag 3G 18" barrel 1-8" twist which will be arriving on Tuesday once I find some more Hornady bullets unless I use some pulled LC bullets I have laying around.
The data was not complete enough due to some issues that say to provide you with extreme spread and standard deviation. I will restart testing from scratch once the range reopens.
The Norinco is not a tack driver to begin with so any accuracy testing will be performed later once I receive my 14.5" Noveske upper whatever century that may be.
24.9gr 2746 Average Velocity
25.1gr. 2798 Average Velocity
25.5gr. 2833 Average Velocity
I have used about 10 pounds of XBR so far in 11.5, 16, 18 and 24 inch barrels, chambered for either .223 or 5.56 NATO. It is an excellent powder, but I would say far more so with the heavier bullets. For me it is the one powder that can duplicate the MK 262 velocities without issues.
I wish I could get 10 lbs of it...
YMMV, but I was about a grain over Hodgdon's max load in my Noveske w/o any pressure signs and 77 gr. Noslers. Chamber sealed nice, brass was ejecting clean as hell.
Very clean burning powder, I was amazed. I go through less patches.
I have used about 10 pounds of XBR so far in 11.5, 16, 18 and 24 inch barrels, chambered for either .223 or 5.56 NATO. It is an excellent powder, but I would say far more so with the heavier bullets. For me it is the one powder that can duplicate the MK 262 velocities without issues.
YEP! We went LONG in 8208. Got about 16 lbs... hope that will last until the tard panic is over.
It was one of the last powders to sell out at Cabelas... Wish I'd have grabbed those last 3 lbs on the shelf. :(
We too have a sweet ass 262 clone that stacks holes. I won't post it since it's well over max .223, but that powder is the shit.
YEP! We went LONG in 8208. Got about 16 lbs... hope that will last until the tard panic is over.
It was one of the last powders to sell out at Cabelas... Wish I'd have grabbed those last 3 lbs on the shelf. :(
We too have a sweet ass 262 clone that stacks holes. I won't post it since it's well over max .223, but that powder is the shit.
I agree that the clone load is considered over what is normally posted as .223 Remington pressure loads. However, the 5.56 NATO chambers just love the correct pressure application.
Markm, what barrel length do you chronograph the comparison load with versus MK 262? And of course what velocity is achieved with your setup?
Thanks
Markm, what barrel length do you chronograph the comparison load with versus MK 262? And of course what velocity is achieved with your setup?
I don't know! The load was worked up by a very thorough friend of ours in his SCAR... so whatever those dopey gun barrels come with. 16" I guess.
He fine tuned that mofo to the point where he went even hotter and the accuracy dropped off.
I love this load. And I'm a snooty little bitch about ammo. ;)
Most definitely my favorite powder for 223 and 308, and it seems to prefer heavy bullets in the former and light bullets in the latter.
223 - 24.4 8208, 26"-ish brux, 82 berger (pointed), wolf srm, 2900 fps
308 - 46.0 8208, 20" Rock, 2156 smk, Tula 7.62, 2890 fps
It meters well and is very temp stable. Good powder.
It meters well and is very temp stable. Good powder.
The temp thing was my last doubt.... I was like... there HAS TO be something bad about this load... But lo and behold, the powder is temp stable on top of it all.
I don't even care about metering. I'd run the stuff throught the chargemaster if I had to for these kind of results... but not even that is needed.
11.5" Bravo Co 1 in 7 CL LW top XBR with 77 SMK 2511 ft/secs.
18" Rock Melonited 1 in 8 top XBR 77 SMK 2745
24" colt #1 1 in 9 top XBR 2847
Colt #2 also a 24" 2833
26" Krieger unknown twist, but probably 1 in 7.7 2940
all shoot very well
Are those results typical of most powders for you? Only 400 FPS between a 11.5" and a 26"?
18" data
Are those results typical of most powders for you? Only 400 FPS between a 11.5" and a 26"?
Bullet weight and a powders burn rate characteristics have more to say in that than just barrel length. Also a half dozen rifles doesn't make for a balanced test.
A common load of 24.4 TAC and 55 Hornady FMJ gives these numbers:
11.5" 2675
16.o" 2750
18.0" 2725* only 1 round fired as fouler... not valid***
24.0" 3014
I just started loading for 223 and have not worked up a perfect load yet but right now I am using 22.5g of the 8208 behind a 77g Sierra HPBT and from my 10.3 inch DD barrel and Aimpoint PRO they will stay inside 6 inches at 100yds. Im ok with that. Id like to shoot them through a bolt gun and precision scope to see how good they could really be.
Aimpoint PRO they will stay inside 6 inches at 100yds. Im ok with that.
With an aimpoint you should see 2" groups with that bullet. If you're getting up to 6", just shoot Black hills or PRVI ammo. :p
Add 1.3 gr to your load and you'll have our recipe. This is with WOLF primers.
With an aimpoint you should see 2" groups with that bullet. If you're getting up to 6", just shoot Black hills or PRVI ammo. :p
Add 1.3 gr to your load and you'll have our recipe. This is with WOLF primers.
Or maybe just a smigeon more *... Lot's of rifles and people have reported 23.3 working very well. That's book maximum with .223 chambers... 5.56 has been tested to well beyond that. However Markm is right on the money node here.
MadcapMagician
02-19-13, 13:32
I've got 25.6 grains of it behind 55gr Hornady FMJs. I call it the laser load.
Also works well with .308s. I was a Varget user for quite some time, now I'm hooked on the 8208 XBR.
Also works well with .308s. I was a Varget user for quite some time, now I'm hooked on the 8208 XBR.
Oh no... Now I have to try it in .308. :(
With an aimpoint you should see 2" groups with that bullet. If you're getting up to 6", just shoot Black hills or PRVI ammo. :p
Add 1.3 gr to your load and you'll have our recipe. This is with WOLF primers.
Even with a 10inch barrel?
Even with a 10inch barrel?
Barrel length is not indicative of accuracy or precision. So yes even with a 10" barrel.
This was shot with an 11.5" barrel, all 5 rounds.
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x160/308sako/MyBestEverwithSBRoranyAR.jpg
And this is the same barrel a different load composite 300 and yes 400 yard shooting.
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x160/308sako/ShortysBesteffort400and300combined.jpg
May I refer you to this prior post: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=111497
Oh no... Now I have to try it in .308. :(
Yes you should, less pressure than Varget with screaming accurate 155 loads...
Most definitely my favorite powder for 223 and 308, and it seems to prefer heavy bullets in the former and light bullets in the latter.
223 - 24.4 8208, 26"-ish brux, 82 berger (pointed), wolf srm, 2900 fps
308 - 46.0 8208, 20" Rock, 2156 smk, Tula 7.62, 2890 fps
It meters well and is very temp stable. Good powder.
What weight bullet in 308?
What weight bullet in 308?
2156smk = Sierra's 155 palma bullet. It's fast, accurate, and turns the dinosaur into something completely different.
Barrel length is not indicative of accuracy or precision. So yes even with a 10" barrel.
This was shot with an 11.5" barrel, all 5 rounds.
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x160/308sako/MyBestEverwithSBRoranyAR.jpg
And this is the same barrel a different load composite 300 and yes 400 yard shooting.
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x160/308sako/ShortysBesteffort400and300combined.jpg
May I refer you to this prior post: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=111497
These groups are with a 2MOA red dot? Pretty damn good.
These groups are with a 2MOA red dot? Pretty damn good.
If you get the right target that allows you to place the dot perfectly on the paper.. and dial your dot down as low as you can see it... you'd be surprised.
These groups are with a 2MOA red dot? Pretty damn good.
Where were these groups claimed to have been shot with a 2 MOA red dot?
If they were, I'd be highly skeptical of that claim.
Maybe with a good target, a high quality machine rest and near perfect range conditions. But even then I doubt you could do it twice. Out of an AR15 i'd say that's a lottery group.
Out of an AR15 i'd say that's a lottery group.
Yeah... that's what we try to shoot with a 20" bolt gun with a Nightforce.
LOL!! If groups like this could be repeated, at will, the shooters should be national champs.
Also, FWIW, the only full-up 60,000psi 5.56 NATO loads I've seen listed is in Western Powders (Ramshot) data mainly with 2520.
Man, now I definitely have to get some 8208...
Most powder/bullet manufacturers will send you their 5.56 NATO data if you email one of the ballisticians but they rarely post it online.
Man, now I definitely have to get some 8208....
Stay away from MY powder. :mad:
Stay away from MY powder. :mad:
I haven't seen it locally in about month :( I think one store still has some but they had it marked at $30/lb...
At least that shiny gold container is easy to spot...
These groups are with a 2MOA red dot? Pretty damn good.
No, they are with a 4X ACOG, as the link would have shown.
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x160/308sako/115inchSBR.jpg
I wish these old eyes would allow that sort of resolution.
Where were these groups claimed to have been shot with a 2 MOA red dot?
If they were, I'd be highly skeptical of that claim.
Maybe with a good target, a high quality machine rest and near perfect range conditions. But even then I doubt you could do it twice. Out of an AR15 i'd say that's a lottery group.
First, these groups were shot with a 4X ACOG, as the link in the original post would have shown.
Secondly; frankly I was shocked at the result and accuracy received, however, these groups were witnessed by a local LEO instructor who was equally surprised. Yes this barrel and load combination may be a fluke, but it is what it is.
Fluke or combination for life of that combo!
Please continue to provide consults, light bullets/heavy, 556 and 308. - looks like a reasonable replacement for TAC.
Raven Armament
02-21-13, 12:49
Man, now I definitely have to get some 8208...
Most powder/bullet manufacturers will send you their 5.56 NATO data if you email one of the ballisticians but they rarely post it online.
Both Ramshot and Accurate Powder have 5.56 data in their PDF manuals online.
Both Ramshot and Accurate Powder have 5.56 data in their PDF manuals online.
I've been able to get expanded data from Ramshot and data from Barnes as well. I took all of the data of various .223/5.56 powder and bullets that I have quick access to and made myself a hard copy in case I didn't have computer/internet access from some reason :dance3:
The only reloading manual I have right now is the Hornady 8th edition.
The only reloading manual I have right now is the Hornady 8th edition.
Hornady 9th edition has three sections for .223: .223 (35-60gr), .223 Service Rifle (68-80gr) and 5.56 NATO (55-80gr).
Lots of loads for 8208xbr, CFE223, Power Pro Varmint, TAC, AR-Comp and the usual suspects.
Fired at 400 yards, Rifle is a LaRue / Krieger 18" upper, Scope is Leupold 8.5 x 25 X 50 Tactical, trigger Giessele match. 77 SMK in LC '08 cases CCi 400 primers 22.8 grains for a velocity of 2675 ft/secs approximately.
Three rounds only... feel that you need more? He's plenty happy with the performance.
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x160/308sako/IMAG0617-Copy_zpsb9d9d016.jpg
Three rounds only... feel that you need more?
Well... BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD with that gun and load! :p
Well that's very nice...
Found some 8208 at 29.99 per lb on Saturday. Another shop had H322 for $20 though...
Well that's very nice...
Found some 8208 at 29.99 per lb on Saturday. Another shop had H322 for $20 though...
I'd buy a lb of XBR at that price. I'd buy every pound in site of H322 at that price!
I'd buy a lb of XBR at that price. I'd buy every pound in site of H322 at that price!
I don't know how that place had powder left. EVERYTHING was 4-6 dollars below average for this area. I had just paid $26 per lb for Universal, it was $21 there. I was kicking myself...
I randomly clicked on this thread and learned something new.
I had never heard of this wonder powder, and I like how it sounds.
1) Is this only good for SBRs or precision rigs? How would it perform out of my standard BCM 16" midlength? Is this powder pointless if I would load up some .223 ammo to standard M-193 or M-855 specs?
2)Some of you guys said you used it in .308. So does it generally lend itself well to major centerfire calibers for bolt guns? (8x57, .303, 7.62x54R, 7.5x55, etc)
3)Is it safe for M-1 Garands the way IMR 4895 and 4064 are?
If it can do all of those things, I'd consider getting it as my sole rifle powder. For now, the plan is to stick to IMR 4895 since it seems to work for all the things I need it to work.
Mind you, I don't have my handloading gear yet, but I'm making a checklist of sorts. I got excited when Mark M said something about a Mk. 262 clone. Of course, I don't know if those are worth the trouble of a barrel and standard rifle like mine. I ain't got a Mk. 12 SPR, that's for sure.
ETA, I'm not 100% sure about Varget for the M-1, but this looks like it could suit me as a universal load.
1) Is this only good for SBRs or precision rigs? How would it perform out of my standard BCM 16" midlength?
It'll run fine in any AR.
Is this powder pointless if I would load up some .223 ammo to standard M-193 or M-855 specs?
It would work fine for that I suppose... But I would use ball powder to match those loads. Although there's no real price difference.. I hate using powder that's capable of good things on mediocre bullets.
I have a feeling it's probably a no-go for the M-1, right?
I have a feeling it's probably a no-go for the M-1, right?
I'd check Hodgdon's load data center. I don't load for 30-06, but if there's data on it, it'll be there.
I have a feeling it's probably a no-go for the M-1, right?
I think it should be fine. Hodgdon lists loads for it. Hornady shows it as slightly faster than IMR4895. It is at the top of my list to test for the Garand when it becomes available again.
It should work for the m1. The burn rate is fast enough that it should not cause problems. I have used it to load 30-06 just not for a garand.
8208 is my favorite powder. I have around 20 pounds of cfe223 that i have been sitting on waiting for the new data to come out before loading it. Now that i have the 2013 hogdon and the nosler 7 Im going to give it a try. If it performs as well as i have read it may end up my new favorite. If i can get equal performance out of cfe with the added fouling erasing cfe might replace 8208.
I still have 18lbs of 8208 to get through before i start on the cfe testing.
Raven Armament
02-28-13, 23:00
Are you guys really seeing copper fouling in your weapons? I've never had it. I've used TAC, both 4895s, H335, H322, Benchmark, Varget, BLC2, and W748. Never noticed any copper build up or fouling in any barrel, even in my post 86 samples. I tried the CFE before and wasn't impressed. It didn't do anything for me that another powder couldn't.
i can't see it, because i do not have a bore scope. All barrels get copper fouled. Use some copper cleaner, and look at your patch. If it comes out blue you have copper.
From the tests i have seen the cfe works great. In the new hodgdon manual they do a thorough test of cfe. They even show pics they took with a bore scope. The result were amazing. They even used it on a barrel that was know to copper foul badly, and did not shoot well due to copper build up. After they ran some cfe loads it removed most of the copper just from shooting.
That is in the hodgdon manual so it may be exaggerated. I have seen tests from unbiased individuals that showed the same.
Tac has a form of copper remover as well as some military powders. The idea has been around for a while. Copper fouling is generally not a huge problem. I do not clean my barrels until they start to loose accuracy, and if cfe can prolong the time between cleaning ill be happy. That is the main reason i want to try it. I have also heard it can match 8208 for speed and accuracy.
You definitely have copper fouling. If you are shooting bullets that have copper jackets you have copper fouling. It is just a part of shooting. Im not sure what you use to clean with, but if you are not seeing accuracy problems whatever you are doing must be getting enough of the copper out of your barrels.
Raven Armament
02-28-13, 23:32
Interesting. Thanks. I have the 2011 Hodgdon manual but not the 2012. I use an acetic acid/hydrogen peroxide solution for barrel cleaning. No blue on the patches.
Try something like sweets or shooters choice. What your using may get the copper. A good barrel should not have excessive copper fouling. It is barrels that are really rough or barrels that are to smooth. The latter sound like it would not be true, but i got that info from lijla barrels.
If your not having any problems your cleaning is getting the job done. If i clean my barrel after one range session there is almost no copper left behind. When the accuracy falls off the copper is much more noticeable. In my spr i use KG products, and there copper remover uses grit to remove the copper. They recommend to remove the majority of the copper but not all of it. They claim that some copper is good, because it fills the minor imperfections in the barrel. If you leave that copper, but smooth it out so the imperfections and the copper itself does not make the problem worse. They say if you remove all the copper the imperfections and rough patches scrape copper off the bullet allowing it to deposit in the barrel.
Noveske recommended KG products for there barrels. So i started using it in my Noveske spr. It works and KG products work great.
Cleaning barrels to me is somewhere in between science and voodoo. Everybody has there own way of doing things. As long as your happy with what your using that's all that matters, but if you have a gun that will not shoot and you know the round count is to low for the barrel to be shot out. Get one of the good copper cleaners and clean until you are not getting blue patches. Then shoot it and see if it makes a difference.
I have bought a couple guns that were supposedly shot out. Stripped the copper from the barrel and all but one pistol shot great.
The best way I find copper fouling is by trying some BoreTech Cu2. The patches will light up green blue very quickly.
I've never found significant copper fouling on my Chrome lined barrels... but my Bolt gun gets it pretty good.
XBR DATA. MY BUDDY RELOADED THIS. Not Markm, he used various primers hence the Larger than normal SD.
I can't get picture posted with chrono data off my iPad. **** it, will do it later
Just after Christmas I was able to order 5lb of Varget from Sportsmans Warehouse (had a gift certificate), and snagged 2lb of 8208XBR to try.
23.8gr 8208XBR with a 77gr Nosler CC, RP brass and Rem 6.5 at mag length gives me very good accuracy (0.44" 5-shot groups @ 100yd) from a 18" 1:8 5.56 BHW barrel and 2683fps average velocity. For comparison, 5 rounds of Black Hills 77gr OTM Seconds chronographed at 2688fps on the same range trip.
XBR also looks like it might rock in my Savage/Criterion 22" 1:7 223AI bolt gun; 25.8gr under a 80gr A-Max @ 2.485" in formed Nosler brass with CCI-450 gave me roughly 2930fps during pressure testing (there was none) and a <0.40" group at 200yd.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.