Primer Question

[Airhasz]

Loading 9mm Luger for G19 that performs great with factory ammo. I wanted to work up a starting load but only have federal magnum sm pistol primers. 115gn RN, 4.1gn Win231 per Hornady manual. These rounds fire but don't feed and eject. Next, I have seen small rifle primers use for pistol in the past so I switched to small rifle primers, bullet and powder the same. These rounds performed perfect.

My question is can I expect to make the magnum primers work by using less powder until they work fine? Or maybe someone knows of a load for this G19 that uses magnum primers as I have quite a few I'd like to use since they are scarce now. Can sm magnum pistol primers be used in .223 ammo since sm rifle primers work in 9mm Luger?

I know at least Markm colors outside the lines sometimes and I wanted to hear from other loaders and their experience, thanks.

[shootist~]

Lead Round nose or jacketed?

You were wise to start low, but (if it's a copper jacketed bullet), you probably are just on the weak side. That's just an educated guess since I've never used SP Magnum primers. (Cast bullets take less powder to achieve the same velocity, btw.) I've always used SR primers for pistol - and this goes back to the .357 days.

Chronographing the two loads should prove it one way or another (and I would be interested in the results).

Not a recommendation, but tw'ere me, I would bump the SP-magnum primer load ~0.4 grains and see if that makes it work.

[SteveS]

Start low and work up I have used mag primers and SR primers in 9 mm and they worked. You have to make the choice. I am well past use the max load when reloading.

[NWcityguy2]

I agree that the most likely solution for proper cycling with the SPM primers is more powder. Working up is good and a safety practice you should never out grow but max load is the highest load that is generally considered safe. I work up to max load on virtually everything I reload and I think once in 12 years have I seen signs that I was over pressure.

[Airhasz]

Lead Round nose or jacketed?

You were wise to start low, but (if it's a copper jacketed bullet), you probably are just on the weak side. That's just an educated guess since I've never used SP Magnum primers. (Cast bullets take less powder to achieve the same velocity, btw.) I've always used SR primers for pistol - and this goes back to the .357 days.

Chronographing the two loads should prove it one way or another (and I would be interested in the results).

Not a recommendation, but tw'ere me, I would bump the SP-magnum primer load ~0.4 grains and see if that makes it work.

The bullets are copper jacketed. I do not have a chrony at this time. I hope others with experience will continue to give advice. Thanks everyone for your replies.

[Raven Armament]

SPM is safer than SR in this application. The reason for SR in 9mm is people pushing the 9mm to major PF. When pressure gets that high, the harder cup of the SR primer can handle the pressure and not flatten. This isn't the case with SPM primers. Federal primers also have a softer cup than other brands.

My advice is to change back to the SPM primers and work up your load using them. Unless you're shooting 9mm major loads, there is no need for SR primers in the 9mm.

[Airhasz]

Raven, thanks for your advice. This is my first experience loading for pistol but I have almost 10,000 rounds .223 loading experience. In my 9mm Lee 3 Die Set I have an expander die (which I have no experience with but followed instructions for) to use before the seating die. When I switched to the sm rifle primers I also eliminated the use of the expander die and just went from sizer die to seating die thinking maybe the bullet was being forced to a longer COL and that could be causing my problems. Am I on the right track here or is the changing of primers the cause for failure to feed / extract with the magnum primers and proper operation with the sm rifle primers? Thanks for your paients while I get this problem sorted out!

[GunnutAF]

Good rule of thumb when switching over a mag primer reduce your load by .5 gr. So if that was the same load you used for full function with SP primers and it's well below max it should have functioned. :confused: Or did you go all the way to min loading?

According to Hodgdon you were below the Min by .5 gr - no wonder it didn't cycle! :rolleyes:

[shootist~]

T
Raven, thanks for your advice. This is my first experience loading for pistol but I have almost 10,000 rounds .223 loading experience. In my 9mm Lee 3 Die Set I have an expander die (which I have no experience with but followed instructions for) to use before the seating die. When I switched to the sm rifle primers I also eliminated the use of the expander die and just went from sizer die to seating die thinking maybe the bullet was being forced to a longer COL and that could be causing my problems. Am I on the right track here or is the changing of primers the cause for failure to feed / extract with the magnum primers and proper operation with the sm rifle primers? Thanks for your paients while I get this problem sorted out!

Did you taper crimp after expanding and seating??

[luvmy40]

I run 4.8gn W231 with 115gn, RN FMJ. That is the lightest load that gives me reliable cycling in my sub compact semis(not Glocks).

I've not used SPM primers yet(I'm down to 1k SP and then will be using magnums) but I can't imagine getting enough boost from a magnum primer to push that load over max pressure.

[Airhasz]

T

Did you taper crimp after expanding and seating??

No and that was causing the problem. I realized that eariler today. Am I correct that I can just use the sizing and seating die as I do in rifle? Im not looking to add two more runs through dies for practice ammo. Thanks for the help, Shootist!

[shootist~]

Might work, but much better to
expand and then taper crimp to remove the bell.

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[eightmillimeter]

Raven, thanks for your advice. This is my first experience loading for pistol but I have almost 10,000 rounds .223 loading experience. In my 9mm Lee 3 Die Set I have an expander die (which I have no experience with but followed instructions for) to use before the seating die. When I switched to the sm rifle primers I also eliminated the use of the expander die and just went from sizer die to seating die thinking maybe the bullet was being forced to a longer COL and that could be causing my problems. Am I on the right track here or is the changing of primers the cause for failure to feed / extract with the magnum primers and proper operation with the sm rifle primers? Thanks for your paients while I get this problem sorted out!

A primer change would not cause the issues you are describing. I have found that a little "extra" expansion in 9mm and using a seater plug that is shaped close to the nose of the bullet you are loading goes a long way in 9mm. I use Lee factory crimp dies on all my pistol rounds because it does a post-loading resize of the whole case to ensure reliable feeding through a range of OAL's.

[MrSmitty]

I tried to seat without expanding and made a mess out of some cast bullets and some brass. Now I put a nice bell on the case then taper crimp back to the original OD, haven't had any issues yet.

I originally picked up Federal 200s and CCI 400s to use in 9mm, then I finally found some Federal 100s. I'll give an update to this thread when I exhaust the 100s and break into the magnums/SRs...

[hairyjack]

I've recently loaded 124gr RN for my G17, used small pistol magnum primers and 4.3-4.4gr pf hp38. They ran fine but were on the weak side.

[CAVDOC]

My experience is primer type does not matter so much except that rifle primers are thicker and can give misfires in some guns. As far as 9mm I find my glocks need loads near max to function while others ( beretta colt hk smith etc ) would work even with very light loads.
Load manuals are funny things ( I never work up a load that is not listed in at least a couple sources and usually call it good enough when I start middle of the road and the gun runs ( example a powder that lists start at 4 and max of 6 I load five and if the gun runs I quit)
But some older manuals list significantly higher powder charge limits that current manuals. To get one of my glocks to run I was actually 2/10th of a grain over max in a modern manual but still had room to work based on older data