View Full Version : Red Creek Tactical???
Hello all;
New to the forum...and the AR / M4 "platform"...
...however, have dove in pretty deep, pretty quick.
Not new to shooting, mostly pistol & hunting with Bolt rifles for 30 yrs..
First post here...gotta couple of questions;
>Anyone heard of these guys, or have a "build" from them , or purchased either of their two models ?
http://www.redcreektactical.com/tomahawkcqtc.html
I was interested in their "Tomahawk CQTC™ .458 SOCOM" and buying the 5.56 2nd barrel used in their "Apache Light"...which oddly, is not even listed... if you click on the link on their site (used to be?).
Looks like they use good quality components...if you really get them, and my concern is no one ever talks about this company...do they have "contracts" with military or LE ?
Will they be in business for long?
And at the price they ask, $2,999., well I dunno.
Seems like that puts them up their (cost wise ) with LWRC, KAC, LaRue, Noveske, Barrett...but without the "Rep" & model line.
Anyone know anything about them?
Also;
>Can you put an Upper originally from or meant for a piston rifle like a LWRC or Barrett...on a Lower that orginally came from a D.I. gun like a Daniel Defense (which I have)...or any others I mentioned above?
Are the "lowers" ALL the same, interchangeable with either "piston vs. D.I." AR 15 / M4 platform "uppers"?
Thanks.
Best Regards;
LV3
Have you called and spoken with someone live?
snakedoctor
02-18-13, 21:52
Stick with a known credible Mfg. You'll be glad you did in the long run.
Edit to reflect me talking out of my ass.
Have you called and spoken with someone live?
Oh, YES...Ernie, owner ...I think?
He was extremely generous with his time & enthusiastic, talked my ear about AR's & M4's and the like...parts, quality, reviews for his gun(s), all two of them, and seems like only one is still pictured on his site???
Nice and very unexpected for a guy to talk so long...30 minutes or more, and be so helpful, but on the flip side, I wondered just how busy he was...or NOT.
Maybe not a good sign?
Sticking with a known entity would be my intuition, and like I said, I am really new to this type of rifle or rather weapon system, as it is often called.
Still trying to figure out just how much difference there REALLY is between those guns costing $1500. or less and those $1500.- $4K and more as I see in the case of KAC & LWRCI???
I mean I always thought "Black Guns" were supposed to be fairly inexpensive ...?
Truth be told...up until recently, was more into the high-end large caliber bolt rifles for hunting DG, like Blaser / Krieghoff & Mauser...but when this President...said he would like to restrict my RIGHT to own one, and infringe upon my 2nd Amendment Right, which BTW, when written included the same rifles our military & militias had so the intent was that civilians would own the same...
...so, uh, lets just say even my non-shooter wife thought it patriotic that I should drop a quick 10k on guns, mags, & ammo :thank_you2:while we still can!
Hooah!
O-happy-day:dance3:...I did, and then some!
So I would appreciate opinions backed with a few facts or reasons why...if money is not a concern, who makes the best for the money without being completely ridiculous...( I am willing & able to spend$$$, yet hate waste and getting ripped off )
Seems like great & informative forum here...
Thanks again!
PS. can anyone answer my 2nd question in my OP?
"Also;
>Can you put an Upper originally from or meant for a piston rifle like a LWRC or Barrett...on a Lower that orginally came from a D.I. gun like a Daniel Defense (which I have)...or any others I mentioned above?
Are the "lowers" ALL the same, interchangeable with either "piston vs. D.I." AR 15 / M4 platform "uppers"?
That website reads like it will soon be having a show on the Discovery Channel.
Well, maybe not in the near future, until the guy moves out of his Mom's house. Google search his contact shipping address....
Maybe I am wrong, but it doesn't look like anything more than a guy who ceracoates the weapons he assembles from parts, and then charges a rather high markup.
Hmmm...think you are correct on all counts.
"Google search his contact shipping address...."
did what you suggested and it came up in a residential "tract home" neighborhood.
May be a basement/garage operation.
What was seductive...luring me in, so to speak, given the current "climate" of gun & part availability... is that he said he had ALL those parts listed on his site...save the suppressor, which I did not want, and was just waiting on "rails"?
He just emailed me and said he can build me that .458 SOCOM and Cerakote it any way I want for $3K.
I will pass.
Ok, i see. I wouldn't buy them because i like to stick with proven commodities.
I think you need to do some research about the platform. Also, there is a crazy little thing going on right now. It's called panic buying and lack of supply coupled with high demand. All of this contributes to whacky prices that normally wouldn't fly.
WNY_Whitetailer
02-19-13, 06:13
PS. can anyone answer my 2nd question in my OP?
"Also;
>Can you put an Upper originally from or meant for a piston rifle like a LWRC or Barrett...on a Lower that orginally came from a D.I. gun like a Daniel Defense (which I have)...or any others I mentioned above?
Are the "lowers" ALL the same, interchangeable with either "piston vs. D.I." AR 15 / M4 platform "uppers"?
Yes you can...I have an Adams Arms upper on a Spikes lower. No issues...
Sent from my ADR8995 using Tapatalk 2
PatrolRifleGroup
02-19-13, 06:13
I have previously sent some parts off to Ernie to have them cerakoted. Like the OP, he talked my ear off and generally gave me a good impression. I sent my parts off to him prior to SHOT '12, so I was expecting some delay. After a month or so, I started calling for updates. I was told no less than 4 or 5 times that my parts would ship the next day, but no dice. I talked to a bunch of vendors while I was at at SHOT who Ernie does work for. They said my experience was typical, but that he was honest and does deliver.
I did eventually get my parts back. Total turn around time was somewhere around 2 1/2 months. The work was excellent, and the price was right. Will I use him again? Probably so, but I am now more aware of what to expect. I think he likes to wait until he has a batch of items that are getting cerakoted the same color, before doing the work. Is it right? No, but I understand the reason behind it. That's my experience with him, take it for what it's worth.
I can echo that experience. I had a 1911 cerakoted by Ernie. He did a very good job on the the pistol and his prices were more than fair, but don't be in a hurry.
I'd check out a Wilson Combat .458 before red creek tactical. I believe WC is much more reputable than this cats fly by night operation.
Why not stick with DD/Noveske/BCM/Colt...that rifle does not wonders compared to any of the others mentioned and they are tried and trued tools
I had the same story as you...my local dealer had ONE DDM4 left and I grabbed it.
I am seeing ammo supplies back locally though...walmart is getting supplies back from TulAmmo...not the greatest but never had issues with it
I had the same story as you...my local dealer had ONE DDM4 left and I grabbed it.
I am seeing ammo supplies back locally though...walmart is getting supplies back from TulAmmo...not the greatest but never had issues with it
Yeah...I can occasionally get Federal & Winchester .223 & 5.56 , 9mm & .45ACP from them too...limit of 3 boxes per customer...
...however, I need a top quality "lower" form my DD .300 ACC Blackout and really would like to buy a few more AR 15's / M4's & a AR 10 or two...before the "BAN"...tough to find anything here in VEGAS...ONE shop has some low end Colts, DPMS & Rock River at 2x the pre-frenzy price...considered it,but owner was a bizarre ADD "like" weird nervous kinda guy that scared me off...and guns too much like what I already have, yet not as good even, and would like different...6.8 Spec .458 SOCOM, .308 or .338 FED., maybe one "piston" rifle, just 'cause?
Yeah...I can occasionally get Federal & Winchester .223 & 5.56 , 9mm & .45ACP from them too...limit of 3 boxes per customer...
...however, I need a top quality "lower" form my DD .300 ACC Blackout and really would like to buy a few more AR 15's / M4's & a AR 10 or two...before the "BAN"...tough to find anything here in VEGAS...ONE shop has some low end Colts, DPMS & Rock River at 2x the pre-frenzy price...considered it,but owner was a bizarre ADD "like" weird nervous kinda guy that scared me off...and guns too much like what I already have, yet not as good even, and would like different...6.8 Spec .458 SOCOM, .308 or .338 FED., maybe one "piston" rifle, just 'cause?
Before the "Ban"? Who said the ban will ever even happen. Its been falling to pieces one part at a time in congress.
Also low end colt???? And colt, dpms, and rock river in the same sentence?
With how things are going, not sure why your looking at botique rounds as well, rather than stuff that is still steadily available. I guess people will learn there lesson like us that went the 5.7 route and have ammo completely skimp and rare for years. Best to stay with common rounds.
Before the "Ban"? Who said the ban will ever even happen. Its been falling to pieces one part at a time in congress.
Also low end colt???? And colt, dpms, and rock river in the same sentence?
With how things are going, not sure why your looking at botique rounds as well, rather than stuff that is still steadily available. I guess people will learn there lesson like us that went the 5.7 route and have ammo completely skimp and rare for years. Best to stay with common rounds.
Before the "Ban"? Who said the ban will ever even happen. Its been falling to pieces one part at a time in congress.
Not too sure about that...these thugs are committed.
Also low end colt???? And colt, dpms, and rock river in the same sentence?
Said I was new to this weapon "platform"...care to enlighten me as to my "sin"?
With how things are going, not sure why your looking at botique rounds as well, rather than stuff that is still steadily available. I guess people will learn there lesson like us that went the 5.7 route and have ammo completely skimp and rare for years. Best to stay with common rounds.
Hmmm, .308 & 6.8SPC "boutique"...are Bushmaster & LWRCI "boutique companies?
Also...
Here is a personal email sent to me by Ernie of Red Creek Tactical...not sure why he thought there was anything wrong or negative in the inquiry...natural to want to know the stability & Rep of a company you are considering dropping $3 grand in...ya think?
However, his response was mostly polite & succinct, not sure why he did not just post it here, as I was just the OP trying to get info...not the one implying any negativity, just receiving the knowledgable advice of others...which pretty much seemed reasonable, cautious common sense.
Well, sometimes, we can be wrong...he makes a good case for his work just has not taken the same road as other builders.
Quote:
"Lewis,
A friend of mine informed me today about your post on M4carbine.net.
It interesting to see some of the replies.
First off, I routinely refer people to Wilson Combat for .458 SOCOM rifles who are looking for a lower priced, more mass produced rifle, or to Rock River. We are s small custom shop and have never represented ourselves otherwise. We build custom 1911’s, Glock’s, M&P’s, etc, as well as custom AR platform rifles and bolt action tactical rifles. We do a limited number of guns each year and don’t have any desire to be larger that we are. There are plenty of “larger” companies in the market for those who “choose” that option.
We have built and supplied guns to many law enforcement agencies and individual officers and have been in the gun industry for over 30 years. One of the firearms instructors for the Utah State Troopers recently sent me an email letting me know he had fired over 6,500 documented rounds through his M4 we built for him without cleaning and without a single malfunction. So, what we build works and these guns are used by people who trust their lives to them.
We also have a fairly significant Cerakote operation and do coating for other shops as well as other manufacturers, such as U.S. Machinegun Armory, Battle Arms Development, etc Yes, my shop is in my house and that’s how I want it for now. It allows me to work late in the evening without interruption and still be there for my family. A personal choice.
As far as the guns we build, they are custom built with the best, most expensive components and much more goes into our guns than many others on the market. As an example, we have worked with Tactical Springs to get custom cryogenically treated chrome silicon springs which we combine with our own buffer system, which help create smoother and more reliable function.
As far as “manufactured in-house” goes, there are only a few manufacturers, such as Colt, who build most of their own components. Noveske, as a good example, is a barrel maker who operated out of the back of PacNor barrels shop for many years (I know, I visited their shop) and they don’t make any of their own components other than the barrel. Art down at SWS in Texas makes their rails, they have their receivers and all other parts made by other companies and only do the assembly.
So, the sum total of a rifle is the parts you use to build it and the care in which its built. If you compare the components in my builds you will see all the main parts are made from billet, not cast and the only parts we use from a standard lower parts kit are the small detents and springs, etc. We do things like use a specially made cutter to precisely face off the upper receiver so it’s perfectly true where it meets up with the barrel. On barrel extensions, they are custom turned to the exact inside diameter of the upper receiver for a press fit, etc. Things not found on lower end mass produced rifles.
So, size is only one metric for a company and if mass produced is what you’re looking for then there are many good options out there. We’re not, and don’t ever want to be in that segment of the market.
Those that know me and know the quality of work we do have no problem with my shop being in my house. As an example Rich Lucibella, the Publisher of SWAT magazine ordered two of the Tomahawks… I have done ammunition and weapons development projects for the military, such as the 5.56mm Optimized round (currently fielded Brown Tip), the Mk-288 Reactive Material Enhanced 50BMG, etc and was a consultant for companies such as Barnes Bullets, where I was involved with their Military and Law Enforcement product strategy and was the guy who got the 300gr TAC-X bullet for the .458 SOCOM developed.
Now, apparently sharing you expertise is a bad thing… Perhaps it would be better if I was a total jerk to customers and didn’t take the time to answer questions and explain things.
The thing about the forums is that there are a lot of nobodies, who desperately want to be somebody and they throw out little snide remarks with no fact or substance to back them up. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one…
So, when you assess the market and the product offerings available, you should realize that they range from custom built rifles and pistols from reputable small custom shops, to large mass produced gun form large comapnies. What is best depends on your personal needs, preferences and budget. Nuff said.
-Ernie"
Ernest Bray
Red Creek Tactical, LLC
Colt, Glock, SIG-Sauer and Remington Factory Certified Military and LE Armorer
NIC Industries Premier Partner – Manufacturer Certified - Award Winning - Cerakote Applicator
CELL: 801-376-1821 (anytime)
BUS: 801-616-0600
FAX: 801-770-2080
EMAIL: ernie@redcreektactical.com
Or ernie.bray@gmail.com
WEBSITE: www.redcreektactical.com
ADDRESS: 494 North 560 West
American Fork, UT 84003
Also...
Here is a personal email sent to me by Ernie of Red Creek Tactical...not sure why he thought there was anything wrong or negative in the inquiry...natural to want to know the stability & Rep of a company you are considering dropping $3 grand in...ya think?
However, his response was mostly polite & succinct, not sure why he did not just post it here, as I was just the OP trying to get info...not the one implying any negativity, just receiving the knowledgable advice of others...which pretty much seemed reasonable, cautious common sense.
Well, sometimes, we can be wrong...he makes a good case for his work just has not taken the same road as other builders.
Quote:
"Lewis,
A friend of mine informed me today about your post on M4carbine.net.
It interesting to see some of the replies.
First off, I routinely refer people to Wilson Combat for .458 SOCOM rifles who are looking for a lower priced, more mass produced rifle, or to Rock River. We are s small custom shop and have never represented ourselves otherwise. We build custom 1911’s, Glock’s, M&P’s, etc, as well as custom AR platform rifles and bolt action tactical rifles. We do a limited number of guns each year and don’t have any desire to be larger that we are. There are plenty of “larger” companies in the market for those who “choose” that option.
We have built and supplied guns to many law enforcement agencies and individual officers and have been in the gun industry for over 30 years. One of the firearms instructors for the Utah State Troopers recently sent me an email letting me know he had fired over 6,500 documented rounds through his M4 we built for him without cleaning and without a single malfunction. So, what we build works and these guns are used by people who trust their lives to them.
We also have a fairly significant Cerakote operation and do coating for other shops as well as other manufacturers, such as U.S. Machinegun Armory, Battle Arms Development, etc Yes, my shop is in my house and that’s how I want it for now. It allows me to work late in the evening without interruption and still be there for my family. A personal choice.
As far as the guns we build, they are custom built with the best, most expensive components and much more goes into our guns than many others on the market. As an example, we have worked with Tactical Springs to get custom cryogenically treated chrome silicon springs which we combine with our own buffer system, which help create smoother and more reliable function.
As far as “manufactured in-house” goes, there are only a few manufacturers, such as Colt, who build most of their own components. Noveske, as a good example, is a barrel maker who operated out of the back of PacNor barrels shop for many years (I know, I visited their shop) and they don’t make any of their own components other than the barrel. Art down at SWS in Texas makes their rails, they have their receivers and all other parts made by other companies and only do the assembly.
So, the sum total of a rifle is the parts you use to build it and the care in which its built. If you compare the components in my builds you will see all the main parts are made from billet, not cast and the only parts we use from a standard lower parts kit are the small detents and springs, etc. We do things like use a specially made cutter to precisely face off the upper receiver so it’s perfectly true where it meets up with the barrel. On barrel extensions, they are custom turned to the exact inside diameter of the upper receiver for a press fit, etc. Things not found on lower end mass produced rifles.
So, size is only one metric for a company and if mass produced is what you’re looking for then there are many good options out there. We’re not, and don’t ever want to be in that segment of the market.
Those that know me and know the quality of work we do have no problem with my shop being in my house. As an example Rich Lucibella, the Publisher of SWAT magazine ordered two of the Tomahawks… I have done ammunition and weapons development projects for the military, such as the 5.56mm Optimized round (currently fielded Brown Tip), the Mk-288 Reactive Material Enhanced 50BMG, etc and was a consultant for companies such as Barnes Bullets, where I was involved with their Military and Law Enforcement product strategy and was the guy who got the 300gr TAC-X bullet for the .458 SOCOM developed.
Now, apparently sharing you expertise is a bad thing… Perhaps it would be better if I was a total jerk to customers and didn’t take the time to answer questions and explain things.
The thing about the forums is that there are a lot of nobodies, who desperately want to be somebody and they throw out little snide remarks with no fact or substance to back them up. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one…
So, when you assess the market and the product offerings available, you should realize that they range from custom built rifles and pistols from reputable small custom shops, to large mass produced gun form large comapnies. What is best depends on your personal needs, preferences and budget. Nuff said.
-Ernie"
Ernest Bray
Red Creek Tactical, LLC
Colt, Glock, SIG-Sauer and Remington Factory Certified Military and LE Armorer
NIC Industries Premier Partner – Manufacturer Certified - Award Winning - Cerakote Applicator
CELL: 801-376-1821 (anytime)
BUS: 801-616-0600
FAX: 801-770-2080
EMAIL: ernie@redcreektactical.com
Or ernie.bray@gmail.com
WEBSITE: www.redcreektactical.com
ADDRESS: 494 North 560 West
American Fork, UT 84003
Update::cool:
To be fair to this company, regardless of how small or where they operate from...I spoke to some shops here in Las Vegas that do custom Gun work...and they said that RED CREEK TACTICAL & Ernie & Co. do GREAT work...highly recommended and is pretty much as he (Ernie) said above!
As for me, I had to know, because I am considering them, and since they actually "talk" to customers or prospective ones...and can get parts right now...well that says a lot.
curlyburns5
02-20-13, 12:08
Am I the only one here that's skims through these types of threads and only reads the senior members' posts? You can usually get the gist of the whole thread from reading two or three replies.
Am I the only one here that's skims through these types of threads and only reads the senior members' posts? You can usually get the gist of the whole thread from reading two or three replies.
What are you implying?:confused:
Should I have made my inquiry or OP somewhere else...is "General" the wrong forum???:confused:
Quote:
"Lewis,
A friend of mine informed me today about your post on M4carbine.net.
It interesting to see some of the replies.
First off, I routinely refer people to Wilson Combat for .458 SOCOM rifles who are looking for a lower priced, more mass produced rifle, or to Rock River. We are s small custom shop and have never represented ourselves otherwise. We build custom 1911’s, Glock’s, M&P’s, etc, as well as custom AR platform rifles and bolt action tactical rifles. We do a limited number of guns each year and don’t have any desire to be larger that we are. There are plenty of “larger” companies in the market for those who “choose” that option.
We have built and supplied guns to many law enforcement agencies and individual officers and have been in the gun industry for over 30 years. One of the firearms instructors for the Utah State Troopers recently sent me an email letting me know he had fired over 6,500 documented rounds through his M4 we built for him without cleaning and without a single malfunction. So, what we build works and these guns are used by people who trust their lives to them.
We also have a fairly significant Cerakote operation and do coating for other shops as well as other manufacturers, such as U.S. Machinegun Armory, Battle Arms Development, etc Yes, my shop is in my house and that’s how I want it for now. It allows me to work late in the evening without interruption and still be there for my family. A personal choice.
As far as the guns we build, they are custom built with the best, most expensive components and much more goes into our guns than many others on the market. As an example, we have worked with Tactical Springs to get custom cryogenically treated chrome silicon springs which we combine with our own buffer system, which help create smoother and more reliable function.
As far as “manufactured in-house” goes, there are only a few manufacturers, such as Colt, who build most of their own components. Noveske, as a good example, is a barrel maker who operated out of the back of PacNor barrels shop for many years (I know, I visited their shop) and they don’t make any of their own components other than the barrel. Art down at SWS in Texas makes their rails, they have their receivers and all other parts made by other companies and only do the assembly.
So, the sum total of a rifle is the parts you use to build it and the care in which its built. If you compare the components in my builds you will see all the main parts are made from billet, not cast and the only parts we use from a standard lower parts kit are the small detents and springs, etc. We do things like use a specially made cutter to precisely face off the upper receiver so it’s perfectly true where it meets up with the barrel. On barrel extensions, they are custom turned to the exact inside diameter of the upper receiver for a press fit, etc. Things not found on lower end mass produced rifles.
So, size is only one metric for a company and if mass produced is what you’re looking for then there are many good options out there. We’re not, and don’t ever want to be in that segment of the market.
Those that know me and know the quality of work we do have no problem with my shop being in my house. As an example Rich Lucibella, the Publisher of SWAT magazine ordered two of the Tomahawks… I have done ammunition and weapons development projects for the military, such as the 5.56mm Optimized round (currently fielded Brown Tip), the Mk-288 Reactive Material Enhanced 50BMG, etc and was a consultant for companies such as Barnes Bullets, where I was involved with their Military and Law Enforcement product strategy and was the guy who got the 300gr TAC-X bullet for the .458 SOCOM developed.
Now, apparently sharing you expertise is a bad thing… Perhaps it would be better if I was a total jerk to customers and didn’t take the time to answer questions and explain things.
The thing about the forums is that there are a lot of nobodies, who desperately want to be somebody and they throw out little snide remarks with no fact or substance to back them up. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one…
So, when you assess the market and the product offerings available, you should realize that they range from custom built rifles and pistols from reputable small custom shops, to large mass produced gun form large comapnies. What is best depends on your personal needs, preferences and budget. Nuff said.
-Ernie"
Ernest Bray
Red Creek Tactical, LLC
Colt, Glock, SIG-Sauer and Remington Factory Certified Military and LE Armorer
NIC Industries Premier Partner – Manufacturer Certified - Award Winning - Cerakote Applicator
CELL: 801-376-1821 (anytime)
BUS: 801-616-0600
FAX: 801-770-2080
EMAIL: ernie@redcreektactical.com
Or ernie.bray@gmail.com
WEBSITE: www.redcreektactical.com
ADDRESS: 494 North 560 West
American Fork, UT 84003[/QUOTE]
Nice response. You've got my respect. In my limited experience buying firearms (I own 7 total) I've found I would rather do business with someone like Ernie than deal with some of the sanctimonious unknowledgable yahoos you sometimes find at your local gun shop. Unfortunately because of the insaneness that is today's gun market, many local gun shops have had to hire some less than knowledgable or even respectful folks to help out.
I had been discussing a build with Ernie prior to the current insanity. At the time, he didn't have any uncommitted Tomahawks so I was waiting patiently. He contacted me a couple of weeks ago because 1 or 2 became available. Been working with him since and I'm quite satisified because: 1. He knows what he's doing and knows the hardware. 2. He's flexible and has no problem making the changes I wanted (though he does have pro's and con's to each). and 3. He didn't jack up the prices just because he could. I expect delivery later this week or early next so can't comment for sure on the final result but up to this point, I would highly recommend RCT.
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