View Full Version : Has anyone seen the Frontline investigation on the Lanzas and Newtown?
I've found the on air investigation, specifically from those who were willing to face a camera to be quite interesting and odd, to say the least. It seems as though the Lanzas are a bit of an enigma....but a glaring truth shows that Adam's primary deficiency seemed to be a severe lack of social stability, especially for someone who supposedly doesn't handle change well, at all.
I found one very foolish and quite frankly ignorant statement, I believe came from Adams high school principal. He stated that he was very surprised and thought that is was a grave mistake that Nancy took her sons shooting. His reasoning was centered on the traffic infraction his son recieved doing triple digits on a muninicpal road and did so because of an interest in racing video games.
I found the documentary to be very interesting and cut through a bit of the fog and ad hoc reporting that occurred.
I'll close with this, as it sprung to mind after hearing the principal's reasoning....My father passed away on 13 Sept 2000. He was an alcoholic for twenty years. Upon his death, I never thought to take a small time distillery in Lynchburg, TN.
I have found many of the sudden political activism in the wake of the tragedy to be wildly reactionary and honestly, I shouldnt be surprised as to how fundamentally uninformed many of the citizens who suddenly attended the hearings were...
I've got it set to record. And another related show, right before it.
I didn't see the video, but I read the Hartford Courant's article that was released Sunday in correlation and with the help of PBS' Frontline. The two releases were touted as being similar, but the Frontline report would have more information.
The things I took from the 9 page article the Courant released was that the family was pretty messed up, and very secretive which is in no way a crime. I also took away the fact that it is VERY weird that he destroyed his hard drive for his computer. That shows a level of cognitive thought way above the "fearful shy reactionary child" they depict him to be.
And the last thing I took away from the story was that the combination of isolation and video games is a very dangerous thing.
I was a bullied child, and I retreated at times to stories of heroism and games like D&D, and other such fantasies. I also grew up in a household with firearms that were NEVER locked up, and I always knew where they were. The thing my parents never did was allow me to immerse myself in a culture of fantasy violence, while also allowing me to isolate myself from the outside world....
To me the idea of a distraught child sitting in a ****ing basement day in and day out playing 1st person shooters, and horror based video games is akin to a kind of "programing" of the brain.
The fact that today they are releasing that he was trying to "beat" the Norway shooter suggests that he literally thought he was playing a game.
I am not for trampling on our Bill of Rights, but if I were to point my finger at any one thing as a major contributor it would be violent graphically real video games that encourage the user to become more proficient at killing in order to achieve a higher score.
I was watching it on and off. I thought it was interesting for the most part.
But when all the information does come out Lanza's actions are going to characterized as a combination of a lot of factors, a perfect storm if you will. Sad thing is if interventions had probably taken place earlier along the trajectory of his development this incident would never have happened, but hindsight is 20/20. At any rate firearms or an obsession with them were certainly not a causal factor, he was lost in a world of fantasy and delusion. That much is evident.
Obucina, I'd say that it is a mistake to introduce any budding sociopath to firearms.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/lanza-rival-norwegian-bomber-anders-breivik-article-1.1267411
So yes, a kid who enjoys living vicariously through video games without regard to rights of others belongs in juvenile detention - not a shooting range.
everyusernametaken
02-19-13, 23:15
The article I saw mentioning him trying to beat the Norwegian murderer, it sounds like that claim was pure, unsubstantiated speculation from some media parasite. Was something released to lend any credibility to that? Or is it just another lying piece of shit trying to deceive the uninformed for ratings? The police denied the existence of any evidence to support it.
Obucina, I'd say that it is a mistake to introduce any budding sociopath to firearms.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/lanza-rival-norwegian-bomber-anders-breivik-article-1.1267411
So yes, a kid who enjoys living vicariously through video games without regard to rights of others belongs in juvenile detention - not a shooting range.
The investigation focused on his interaction with firearms and in particular that he seemed to idolize his uncle who both served in the Army and was an LEO. Also, that his mother, through an attempt at positive reinforcement, allowed Adam to believe that he could be just like his uncle. Though, his only real experiences with firearms involved an occasional outing with a .22...His mother's choice to take both of her sons shooting seemed to be an attempt at reconnecting with her sons due to a significant lack of parenting, mostly due to the divorce. While she most likely didnt view her son as a sociopath, most of the signs were most likely there. Again, this is hindsight, but I thought that the reasoning of his principal was quite skewed in connecting acts with no aversion to risk on a screen to reality. By his account, I would pin the decision making process more on a lack of discipline, rather than mental stability. Again, I dont justify Adams actions through any rational means, but if the principal who now is immortalized on TV, youtube, etc...he probably should have been a little more clear and I think he knew that. He went 90% on his statement, at that point, own the remaining 10%.
Mauser KAR98K
02-20-13, 10:17
It seems in this article that Lanza had newspaper clippings of the Norway Massacre along with violent video games, yet the "experts" say that neither had anything to do with this?
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2013/0219/Was-Adam-Lanza-an-Anders-Breivik-copycat-Why-experts-are-skeptical-video?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+feeds%2Fcsm+%28Christian+Science+Monitor+|+All+Stories%29
I just got done reading the chapter on violent video games in David Grossman's On Combat. Why the "experts" don't believe video games play a large role is beyond me. Obucina: If you are right and Adam was only taught with his .22 rifle, then what got him to level he was with the AR? Could he have practiced with it in his room while Mom wasn't looking? Did he know the combo to whatever safe (if there was one, I really would like to know) his mom had stored the firearms?
What I find disturbing is that the media has not followed up on this, but they are going hog wild on guns. There are major psychological and social triggers that made this happen. Any word on the meds Adam was on? The most recent killers were on anti-depressants or mood altering drugs. Yet, we don't hear people going after Big Pharma.
It seems in this article that Lanza had newspaper clippings of the Norway Massacre along with violent video games, yet the "experts" say that neither had anything to do with this?
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2013/0219/Was-Adam-Lanza-an-Anders-Breivik-copycat-Why-experts-are-skeptical-video?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+feeds%2Fcsm+%28Christian+Science+Monitor+|+All+Stories%29
I just got done reading the chapter on violent video games in David Grossman's On Combat. Why the "experts" don't believe video games play a large role is beyond me. Obucina: If you are right and Adam was only taught with his .22 rifle, then what got him to level he was with the AR? Could he have practiced with it in his room while Mom wasn't looking? Did he know the combo to whatever safe (if there was one, I really would like to know) his mom had stored the firearms?
What I find disturbing is that the media has not followed up on this, but they are going hog wild on guns. There are major psychological and social triggers that made this happen. Any word on the meds Adam was on? The most recent killers were on anti-depressants or mood altering drugs. Yet, we don't hear people going after Big Pharma.
I was hoping to hear ANY reference to drugs, but there was none. The special noted that he was on an IEP, Individual Education Plan. I am a FL certified educator, so I do understand the nature of an IEP and of a 504 Plan.
Concerning the firearms, the only reference to his usage of a firearm was something chambered in .22. Could have been a 10/22, could have been a .22 chambered AR, but that was never discussed. The special also covered the extensive firearms heritage of CT, NSSF is in Newtown, various manufacturers are based in CT, they spoke to "some dude" who shoots in his backyard and gets complaints. Of course, he was the "pro 2A" expert they talked to and of course he said that 30 round "clips" should be banned.
Now, the parts covering Adams access to firearms is not actually disclosed. All they stated was that Adam shot his mother with the same .22 that he was taught to shoot with.
Also, mentioning his obsession with the wingnut in Norway, would I buy the fact that he had clippings? Most likely, Nancy frequently took trips and has happy to state that Adam was becoming more independent and was capable of function in her absence. They had a pretty damn big house, if she spent time away from his room and allowed him to isolate, mostly on his choice, that might make sense. But, if one is to make the claim that Adam wanted to one up the Norwegian guy, I would prefer to see more proof.
It seems in this article that Lanza had newspaper clippings of the Norway Massacre along with violent video games, yet the "experts" say that neither had anything to do with this?
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2013/0219/Was-Adam-Lanza-an-Anders-Breivik-copycat-Why-experts-are-skeptical-video?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+feeds%2Fcsm+%28Christian+Science+Monitor+|+All+Stories%29
I just got done reading the chapter on violent video games in David Grossman's On Combat. Why the "experts" don't believe video games play a large role is beyond me. Obucina: If you are right and Adam was only taught with his .22 rifle, then what got him to level he was with the AR? Could he have practiced with it in his room while Mom wasn't looking? Did he know the combo to whatever safe (if there was one, I really would like to know) his mom had stored the firearms?
What I find disturbing is that the media has not followed up on this, but they are going hog wild on guns. There are major psychological and social triggers that made this happen. Any word on the meds Adam was on? The most recent killers were on anti-depressants or mood altering drugs. Yet, we don't hear people going after Big Pharma.
Well according to Uncle Joe, this should've been nearly impossible! You know, because an AR is so much more difficult to aim and control than a shotgun! :rolleyes:
I watched both shows last night. I didn't get quite as much out of it as you guys seemed to. The written article must have contained more info. I was happy that the two shows seemed somewhat balanced and showed both sides of the gun argument. At times I thought I felt them leaning left, but then they would show intelligent commentary to the right as well. Neither show was very good. Both left me going, "Okay. What was supposed to take from all of that?" Some people wanna ban guns and others don't. Everyone agrees that mass shootings and murdered children suck, and something should be done about it.
I was a troubled kid. Grew up with a single mom in a bad neighborhood. Played all the latest violent video games. Listened to all the "wrong" music. Watched hours and hours of TV every day. I was taught to shoot BB guns at age 4, a .22 and .410 at age 8. Engaged in all sorts of "risky" behavior... Yet I haven't grown up to murder anyone or go on any shooting sprees. Its not the video games fellas. Its not the "rap" music, the "death metal", or the "satanic" rock and roll either. Some people just aren't wired right. That's all there is to it. We all want something to blame so we can "fix" it. If we can all say its "Call of Duty's" fault, then we can simply ban violent video games, and this will never happen again. Its just not gonna be that easy. In fact I know several young men that were inspired to join the military due to these "violent video games", and went on to have useful, successful military careers.
The investigation focused on his interaction with firearms and in particular that he seemed to idolize his uncle who both served in the Army and was an LEO. Also, that his mother, through an attempt at positive reinforcement, allowed Adam to believe that he could be just like his uncle. Though, his only real experiences with firearms involved an occasional outing with a .22...His mother's choice to take both of her sons shooting seemed to be an attempt at reconnecting with her sons due to a significant lack of parenting, mostly due to the divorce. While she most likely didnt view her son as a sociopath, most of the signs were most likely there. Again, this is hindsight, but I thought that the reasoning of his principal was quite skewed in connecting acts with no aversion to risk on a screen to reality. By his account, I would pin the decision making process more on a lack of discipline, rather than mental stability. Again, I dont justify Adams actions through any rational means, but if the principal who now is immortalized on TV, youtube, etc...he probably should have been a little more clear and I think he knew that. He went 90% on his statement, at that point, own the remaining 10%.
This is where we disagree. I suspect that video games are an important piece of the puzzle in Lanza's case as well as many teens across the country. It makes perfect sense to me that children who are able to act out graphic violence, speeding, or misogyny in video games are more likely to commit to such acts in real life when compared to children who spend their time studying math, volunteering at an animal shelter, or bringing food to the homebound. I share the principal's alarm about the video games, but I would be similarly worried had I caught my kid playing "army" outside with friends were he pretended to shoot babies and women. I certainly would not put a gun in his hand if reenacting mass murder was his favorite pastime - be it a video or yard game.
In other words, there has been a massive breakdown in the social fabric that binds our ordered society due to the gradual application of stress across the population. Some of it is the death of self-reliance and traditional parenting/family. Another part is the rise of moral equivalence. However, a very big part is social withdrawal coupled with an infusion of grotesque violence throughout our media. It is not that every kid who spends 3 hours a day playing Modern Warfare 3 where they can mow down innocent people in an airport (yes, that is actually a scene; you can even shoot them as they try to crawl away) is going to become an active shooter. However, the odds start to go up that tragedies will happen across populations as more stress is applied.
Where do guns fit into this? Well, unfortunately firearms are seen as a power symbol to many of these sociopaths. Much like cars that teenage boys trick out before careening down the highway, guns carry a certain fascination to the socially withdrawn. We are going to have problems as long as we have an significant part of society sitting on their ass, playing video games, living off entitlements, taking psychotropics (prescribed or illegal), and playing with guns. Our Founders never intended to have an armed society that sucks off a tit. Having said that, I think that confiscating guns is the least likely method to successfully solve this riddle.
I was a troubled kid. Grew up with a single mom in a bad neighborhood. Played all the latest violent video games. Listened to all the "wrong" music. Watched hours and hours of TV every day. I was taught to shoot BB guns at age 4, a .22 and .410 at age 8. Engaged in all sorts of "risky" behavior... Yet I haven't grown up to murder anyone or go on any shooting sprees. Its not the video games fellas. Its not the "rap" music, the "death metal", or the "satanic" rock and roll either. Some people just aren't wired right. That's all there is to it. We all want something to blame so we can "fix" it. If we can all say its "Call of Duty's" fault, then we can simply ban violent video games, and this will never happen again. Its just not gonna be that easy. In fact I know several young men that were inspired to join the military due to these "violent video games", and went on to have useful, successful military careers.
Ok, now let's do that experiment with you over prescribed on SSRIs and see if things still work out?
I have a friend of a friend that's been told his entire life he has anxiety and routinely takes every drug I've ever heard of. So guess what, now he's actually ****ed up. He'll never be "right".
I don't have a single ****ing doubt that the school shooters are likely to be on prescribed drugs. I don't give a shit about anything else, I don't care if the kid went shooting, if he played video games, I don't care if he was weird or anti-social, or if his mom spanked him or didn't spank him, I don't care who he idealized, or why he specifically chose that school. I care about the drugs these people are on and that's about all.
So when Frontline does something on prescription drugs that school shooters were on, I'd be very interested. Otherwise, meh.
I was a troubled kid. Grew up with a single mom in a bad neighborhood. Played all the latest violent video games. Listened to all the "wrong" music. Watched hours and hours of TV every day. I was taught to shoot BB guns at age 4, a .22 and .410 at age 8. Engaged in all sorts of "risky" behavior... Yet I haven't grown up to murder anyone or go on any shooting sprees. Its not the video games fellas. Its not the "rap" music, the "death metal", or the "satanic" rock and roll either. Some people just aren't wired right. That's all there is to it. We all want something to blame so we can "fix" it. If we can all say its "Call of Duty's" fault, then we can simply ban violent video games, and this will never happen again. Its just not gonna be that easy. In fact I know several young men that were inspired to join the military due to these "violent video games", and went on to have useful, successful military careers.
And not every person who smokes for 30 years will get lung cancer. In fact only about 7% of lifelong smokers will get the disease but we still associate smoking with lung cancer. Thus, we are talking about risks spread across populations. Just like the propensity to develop lung cancer involves genetic, behavioral, and environmental risk factors, so does the cultivation of a sociopath.
Ok, now let's do that experiment with you over prescribed on SSRIs and see if things still work out?
I have a friend of a friend that's been told his entire life he has anxiety and routinely takes every drug I've ever heard of. So guess what, now he's actually ****ed up. He'll never be "right".
I don't have a single ****ing doubt that the school shooters are likely to be on prescribed drugs. I don't give a shit about anything else, I don't care if the kid went shooting, if he played video games, I don't care if he was weird or anti-social, or if his mom spanked him or didn't spank him, I don't care who he idealized, or why he specifically chose that school. I care about the drugs these people are on and that's about all.
So when Frontline does something on prescription drugs that school shooters were on, I'd be very interested. Otherwise, meh.
Trying to pin this problem on a single cause is not going to work.
D. Christopher
02-20-13, 12:09
One of the HC reporters in the story said that the guns were unsecured in the Lanza home. That is key in the whole chain of events. He took the .22 rifle he learned to shoot with and shot his mother in the head 4 times while she slept. She was the only human being he had any kind of real relationship with and he killed her in her sleep.
Even if the guns were properly secured he may have done this anyway, but maybe he would have been caught trying to obtain or steal weapons if they weren't readily available in his home. Kids steal weapons all the time, sometimes they steal from their neighbors or their friend's parents. If they know there are unsecured weapons in your home then you've made yourself a target. Sometimes weapons are even taken without the owners knowledge, used in a crime, and then returned to the owner's home without them knowing it's ever been gone.
Most gun owner's are way too casual and trusting when it comes to their firearms. Lock them up and/or disable them.
This is where we disagree. I suspect that video games are an important piece of the puzzle in Lanza's case as well as many teens across the country. It makes perfect sense to me that children who are able to act out graphic violence, speeding, or misogyny in video games are more likely to commit to such acts in real life when compared to children who spend their time studying math, volunteering at an animal shelter, or bringing food to the homebound.
I think you can look at the millions and millions of copies of each violent game sold and right away rule that out. Twenty million of just one release of Call of Duty.
Despite massive uptakes in violent video games and firearms, the current murder rate is approaching 1960s levels, and the violent crime has dropped for 20 straight years.
Don't fall into the same argument the antis use with just a didn't evil totem in place of the gun.
Trying to pin this problem on a single cause is not going to work.
If I have to hedge on a single cause, I'll take brain altering drugs that are given to 5% of all children in the US. Mostly because of idiot parents and doctor kickbacks from pharma.
Vs the video games that the majority of all people play, the ones you suggest can cause violent tendencies. But, that's just me.
Most gun owner's are way too casual and trusting when it comes to their firearms. Lock them up and/or disable them.
I would bet the majority of people here grew up around "unsecured" guns with no issues.
My entire childhood I knew where if I wanted to I could find a loaded 38, 1911, or rifle.
To add on that, I would suggest that anyone willing to shoot their mother four times in the head, isn't going to be put off by "safe storage".
Video games and porn are thought to have contributed to the decrease in violent crime. They give people an outlet to play out their fantasies. Blaming games is no different than blaming guns.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
30 cal slut
02-20-13, 12:57
All they stated was that Adam shot his mother with the same .22 that he was taught to shoot with.
Was told by reliable sources that mother died of shotgun blast to the face.
Was told by reliable sources that mother died of shotgun blast to the face.
Interesting...I was really hoping that the documentary would have parted the sea of speculation and provide some degree of clarity since the reporters at the Courant would hopefully do a better job than some of the "online" contributors in CT.
Sadly, it will probably take years to just get an answer to the simple facts. Would one be able to use the Freedom of Information Act to obtain the investigative findings?
30 cal slut
02-20-13, 13:03
Don't know. CT State Police report expected this summer.
Ok, now let's do that experiment with you over prescribed on SSRIs and see if things still work out?
I have a friend of a friend that's been told his entire life he has anxiety and routinely takes every drug I've ever heard of. So guess what, now he's actually ****ed up. He'll never be "right".
I don't have a single ****ing doubt that the school shooters are likely to be on prescribed drugs. I don't give a shit about anything else, I don't care if the kid went shooting, if he played video games, I don't care if he was weird or anti-social, or if his mom spanked him or didn't spank him, I don't care who he idealized, or why he specifically chose that school. I care about the drugs these people are on and that's about all.
So when Frontline does something on prescription drugs that school shooters were on, I'd be very interested. Otherwise, meh.
Good point. I have read that every single one of these "mass shooters" was on some sort of mind altering drug. Of course I read it on the Internet, soooo... Can this be verified and have the national spotlight put on it? Just like the video games that are played by millions of people and don't kill anyone, these drugs are also taken by millions of people who don't kill anyone. Still, if every single one of these mass shooters was on these drugs, it must certainly be considered as a contributory factor.
Smuckatelli
02-20-13, 13:57
Video games and porn are thought to have contributed to the decrease in violent crime. They give people an outlet to play out their fantasies. Blaming games is no different than blaming guns.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
Video games do speed up the cognitive process in relation to decision making. Do video games increase violent crime? IMO; no but they do help to make the violent criminal more efficient.
D. Christopher
02-20-13, 14:09
I would bet the majority of people here grew up around "unsecured" guns with no issues.
My entire childhood I knew where if I wanted to I could find a loaded 38, 1911, or rifle.
To add on that, I would suggest that anyone willing to shoot their mother four times in the head, isn't going to be put off by "safe storage".
In case you haven't noticed it society has changed. What we grew up with doesn't matter anymore unless you're just recalling happier times.
The only laws that would apply in most of these cases are the Laws of Physics. By that I mean gun locks of some sort. They're not perfect but it would prevent some cases and they are better than nothing. At least they might absolve you of legal responsibility in some cases.
And I clearly said it might not have made a difference in this case, but maybe he would have been caught if he had to steal weapons outside the home. We'll never know. But if you want to leave your guns unsecured that's up to you. The numbers I've seen over the last 20 years convinces me that it's reckless and foolish.
Sadly, it will probably take years to just get an answer to the simple facts. Would one be able to use the Freedom of Information Act to obtain the investigative findings?
Not until the case is completed and closed most likely. Even then, some details may never be officially released to the general public.
If I have to hedge on a single cause, I'll take brain altering drugs that are given to 5% of all children in the US. Mostly because of idiot parents and doctor kickbacks from pharma.
Vs the video games that the majority of all people play, the ones you suggest can cause violent tendencies. But, that's just me.
One of these days, I need to get some of those kickbacks I hear everyone talk about. . . . . .
Magic_Salad0892
02-20-13, 15:18
I play videogames, watch porn, and shoot guns.
I'm just fine.
Blaming inanimate objects is just passing the blame. Nobody wants to admit that it was the individual's fault.
Magic_Salad0892
02-20-13, 15:19
Video games do speed up the cognitive process in relation to decision making. Do video games increase violent crime? IMO; no but they do help to make the violent criminal more efficient.
I believe there was a study done that concluded that CoD helped soldiers have a quicker reaction time. Or something like that.
Smuckatelli
02-20-13, 16:20
I believe there was a study done that concluded that CoD helped soldiers have a quicker reaction time. Or something like that.
There have been a lot of studies done. The quicker reaction time comes from the servicemember coming to a decision quicker...not muscle memory type reation times.
Here's a link to one of the original games used for training, take a look at the 3rd section where things tactics like bounding overwatch is covered:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/23232426/Close-Combat-Marine-Workbook-TRAINING-AID-for-MCI-8104
Magic_Salad0892
02-20-13, 18:04
There have been a lot of studies done. The quicker reaction time comes from the servicemember coming to a decision quicker...not muscle memory type reation times.
Here's a link to one of the original games used for training, take a look at the 3rd section where things tactics like bounding overwatch is covered:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/23232426/Close-Combat-Marine-Workbook-TRAINING-AID-for-MCI-8104
Thanks, bro. That's what I'd thought, but I appreciate you bringing up that study.
Good point. I have read that every single one of these "mass shooters" was on some sort of mind altering drug. Of course I read it on the Internet, soooo... Can this be verified and have the national spotlight put on it? Just like the video games that are played by millions of people and don't kill anyone, these drugs are also taken by millions of people who don't kill anyone. Still, if every single one of these mass shooters was on these drugs, it must certainly be considered as a contributory factor.
That is not true.
Psychotropics aren't the cause.
Many of these killers have suffered from some form of paranoia, schizophrenia, or psychosis in general. If anything I could argue that if they had been treated properly with meds and psychotherapy some of the murders could've been prevented.
Correct me if I'm wrong in any of these cases but IIRC...
Dorner was paranoid and felt persecuted but I haven't heard of him being medicated or abusing.
Holmes apparently didn't take psychotropics and only abused pain killers AFAIK. Also was paranoid and in his case mental issues is an understatement.
Loughner abused drugs and alchohol. Also paranoid and serious mental issues.
Cho was prescribed Prozac but apparently wasn't having it filled or taking it.
Millions of people have taken these drugs for decades and aren't killers...and play violent games, watch porn, abuse drugs and alcohol, etc.
I play videogames, watch porn, and shoot guns.
I'm just fine.
Looked what happened to your head though!!!!! :D
-Jax
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