View Full Version : Benifits of all black rear sight?
Hello all...:)
I need to put a set of sights on my Glock 17 and have been looking at the ones with an all black rear sight and tritium front.
I'm wondering about the benifits/disadvantages of this set up. I have two Glocks with the XS Big Dots and one with factory Glock night sights so I don't have any experience with this set up.
I've been looking at the 10-8's, Hackathorn's and RB1's
Thanks in advance to all who reply...:cool:
I've run this set up (black rear, tritium front) on several guns in the past. The idea is that it is easier to acquire and focus on the front without any distractions from the rear. It works well, although with practice I don't seem to have a problem with standard three-dot tritium sights.
A compromise between three dot sights and black rear/dot front would be something like Novak's "bar/dot" option or Heinie's Straight-Eights. Those have a dot on the front sight while leaving a more minimal rear to offer less distraction.
Well with a proper sight picture, you're supposed to focus on the front sight post, not the rear. I find my eyes changing focus when I have 2 white dots on the back and a white dot on the front. Or even when I have one white dot on each.
If I use black rear sights, my eye more naturally focuses on the front sight, regardless if it's fiber optic, tritium, or just white. If it's black too, I get the same problem as if they're both white.
I replaced the factory sights on my Glock 17 with a 10-8 rear (.156 width u-notch) , and an Ameriglo Hackathorn front sight and am very happy with them. The front sight is .220 height btw. Good luck with your choice!
I'm using the 10-8 Performance rear in combo with the tritium front.I do find that the front sight is faster to pick up. Years of using three dot set ups began to play havoc with my older eyes for speed.
I have found that even in darkness these work for me as well,if not better, than having tritium on the rear sight.
I'm using the .140 width rear,which works fine,but my next set will be the .156 rear.
i find with a blacked out rear sight i"m able to pick the front sight up much faster.
The Ameriglo I-Dots could also be an option, as the rear tritium is not outlined, so you only really see it at night.
One disadvantage of this set up I have found is that I end up treating it like a red dot; i.e. looking at the target and putting the extremely visible front on it.
I like an all black sight on the rear of the slide. It draws my focus to the front sight more quickly, especially in bright sunlight.
What type of shooting are you going to be doing? Competition use? Defensive? Recreational plinking?
All black setups are fine when you have clear, bright, uncomplicated range conditions. Otherwise, get something else. (There are several threads on the Trij HD, I-Dot Pros, and similar others that offer a great deal to the defensive shooter.)
I even prefer a single dot over a single dot, a bar/dot or just a dot on the front sight in low light conditions.
I hate them. I need something on the back to relate the front to. Ditched the target sights on my USP-T and replaced them with Heinies.
alvincullumyork
02-22-13, 15:57
Hello all...:)
I need to put a set of sights on my Glock 17 and have been looking at the ones with an all black rear sight and tritium front.
I'm wondering about the benifits/disadvantages of this set up. I have two Glocks with the XS Big Dots and one with factory Glock night sights so I don't have any experience with this set up.
I've been looking at the 10-8's, Hackathorn's and RB1's
Thanks in advance to all who reply...:cool:
I'm running a Ameriglo ProGlo front sight with the stock steel sights blacked out on my M&P. I took a some black ink and blacked out the the two white rear dots and love it. I wish I had a shot timer and some decent data before and after but alas I can barely afford ammo but I certainly feel faster. I also like that the rear two dots are still there but are almost invisible. It makes longer shots a little bit easier because they are not as distracting as the white dots but still gives you something to line up with the front.
I have not done a lot of low light with this setup but I think that it will not be as good a set of three dot night sights.
I wish I had a shot timer and some decent data before and after but alas I can barely afford ammo but I certainly feel faster.
If you have an Iphone or Droid phone, you can download a basic shot timer app for free. The one I have , for what it does, works pretty well.
If you have an Iphone or Droid phone, you can download a basic shot timer app for free. The one I have , for what it does, works pretty well.
Yeah, I downloaded a shot timer on my android phone and it works surprisingly well. Have to calibrate it, but once that's done, it helps a lot. My step-brother's times dropped by about 30% in just an hour after using the shot timer (I was timing, he was shooting).
Magic_Salad0892
02-22-13, 17:19
I can track my sights between shots way faster without a tritium rear. Even completely in the dark.
If you have a consistent grip, then it shouldn't be an issue.
GUNSLINGER733
02-22-13, 17:46
I find it less confusing. In a fast draw it makes it easier to get focused on front blade and you don't have to worry about all the 3 dots. The rear shouldn't be a focus point anyway
I find it less confusing. In a fast draw it makes it easier to get focused on front blade and you don't have to worry about all the 3 dots. The rear shouldn't be a focus point anyway
The same reasons I prefer a plain rear sight.
I prefer Trijicon HD's, and have been using them on all my duty weapons. I also prefer a blacked out rear sight, but under some circumstances I may need to maintain a steady sight picture., Think holding a target at gunpoint. Anyway the HD's rear have tritium with no outlines. They are virtually invisible in daylight use, and the front orange dot stand out against the rear. Even in low light the font stands out, although the rear tritium becomes more visible. They work well for me, although they can be expensive. My other preferred sight setup was the Heinie Ledge sights. My complaint about them was the front sight needed something to make it stand out. TXPO
theblackknight
02-23-13, 10:37
One disadvantage of this set up I have found is that I end up treating it like a red dot; i.e. looking at the target and putting the extremely visible front on it.
If you are close in on a full size target, this isnt exactly bad. A lot of shooters close in use the red on front like a red dot, blurry dot returns down, press and repeat. As distance increased and target appears smaller, you use the color up front to draw your eyes to the top on the sight blade. If you dont need a crisp, technicolor hard sight focus to get the results you need, find the exact flavor of sight picture you do need and watch for it.
Trijicon HD sights. They look to be plain black rear's during the day but at night they have small tritium vials which show up. These are my new favorite sights and I am in the process of upgrading to them on all of my handguns. The other sights I like are the Warren tactical sights plain black rear, tritium white outlined front.
What type of shooting are you going to be doing? Competition use? Defensive? Recreational plinking?
All black setups are fine when you have clear, bright, uncomplicated range conditions. Otherwise, get something else. (There are several threads on the Trij HD, I-Dot Pros, and similar others that offer a great deal to the defensive shooter.)
I don't own any real plinkers except my 17L . I'm just looking to try something different. I haven't done any competition shooting like IDPA/ISPC but I would like to, just waiting for ammo prices and availability to stabilize.
Yeah, I downloaded a shot timer on my android phone and it works surprisingly well. Have to calibrate it, but once that's done, it helps a lot. My step-brother's times dropped by about 30% in just an hour after using the shot timer (I was timing, he was shooting).
Which APP for android are you using? I have a Samsung GS III.
I can track my sights between shots way faster without a tritium rear. Even completely in the dark.
If you have a consistent grip, then it shouldn't be an issue.
I'm a natural pistol shooter. Glocks point very naturally for me but give me any handgun and I'll be accurate with it.
Which sights are you running?
El Pistolero
02-23-13, 13:58
I never used sights with the plain black rear until I had Trijicon HDs installed on my P226. I really like them, it keeps the focus on the front sight, where it should be. I like these sights so much I would never use anything else on a defensive handgun. The Trijicon HDs are that good.
Plain black rears (Warren Tactical on my M&P) helped me with my cross-eye dominance. With 3-dots, my eyes shift back and forth between the front and rear sights.
Psalms144.1
02-25-13, 07:04
While I agree that plain black rear sights will help draw your eye to the front sight in daylight, we've found that, in low/no-light shooting having no rear dots as vertical index points is detrimental to accurate fire.
I don't have any of the hard data anymore (lost it when my computer crashed), but we did a night shoot test several years back using pistols with full NS, no NS, and front dot only; against front-lit targets, back-lit targets, and unlit (ambient light) targets. We had 10 shooters of varying skill levels shoot a couple of basic drills with each pistol in each lighting condition. What we found was that front NS only led to pretty fast shooting, but noticeable vertical stringing with all but a fairly strong front light (light behind the shooter to help illuminate the plain rear sight). Unfortunately, this lighting condition would mean that you have to be silhouetted to the threat - generally not a good thing.
Full NS tended to be somewhat slower (since people tended to take their time to get a better sight alignment when they had rear references), but significantly more accurate across the spectrum of shooting. Not surprisingly, shooting in the dark with standard (non-tritium) irons just sucks all the way around.
Those results were from pre-9/11, and I haven't had the time or conditions necessary to repeat the test, but I don't know what will have changed that would change the results.
For my needs, I find that a VERY visible front with UNlined rear tritiums works best across the range of lighting situations. Currently, all my Glocks are equipped with Ameriglo Pro-Glo fronts, and Operator amber rears, and I'm waiting for a good opportunity to sneak in a couple of sets of Trijicon HDs for my P2000 and P30...
Having said all this, I believe that, like holsters, sight selection is a VERY personal issue, and what works best for me might not work best for you. And, when a lot of high-end professionals like Hilton Yam espouse the plain-black rear mantra, I have to believe there's some tangible benefit to it - but it doesn't work best for ME.
Regards,
Kevin
Warren plain black rear with FO front. Works for me.
RagweedZulu
02-25-13, 20:28
Having said all this, I believe that, like holsters, sight selection is a VERY personal issue, and what works best for me might not work best for you. And, when a lot of high-end professionals like Hilton Yam espouse the plain-black rear mantra, I have to believe there's some tangible benefit to it - but it doesn't work best for ME.
I've been transitioning over to all black rear sights for some years now as my night sights wear out or I install iron sights on Glocks. It just works for me, low light, no light or broad daylight. I even took an x-acto knife and popped out the white paint dots on my duty pistol sights. This is a time proven, non-scientific test with only me as the guinea pig, but they just make me faster and WAY more accurate with carry/duty pistols.
brushy bill
02-25-13, 22:13
I've been transitioning over to all black rear sights for some years now as my night sights wear out or I install iron sights on Glocks. It just works for me, low light, no light or broad daylight. I even took an x-acto knife and popped out the white paint dots on my duty pistol sights. This is a time proven, non-scientific test with only me as the guinea pig, but they just make me faster and WAY more accurate with carry/duty pistols.
Gradually transitioning to 10-8s with brass bead front on mine. Works for me as you must have a light for target ID anyway. I was big on tritium before, but not so much anymore.
alvincullumyork
02-26-13, 00:03
If you have an Iphone or Droid phone, you can download a basic shot timer app for free. The one I have , for what it does, works pretty well.
I had an iPod touch for a while and used the Surefire app with limited success but the iPod is broken and I have a stupid flip phone. Being in college sucks.
Ok, I think I've narrowed it down to two, the Trijicon HD's GL101Y and the Ameriglo Pro Operator GL-227-OP.
They both seem to be pretty much the same sight, however I couldn't find the notch width or front sight height and width for the Trijicons. Does anybody know what they are? Also do the Ameriglo's have the photoluminsent ring like the Trijicon's? If not can I get a front sight with it instead of the regular front sight?
IMHO, what combat type front and rear sight combinations work best (speed and accuracy) "for you", will largely be influenced by your eyesight. What may work for some with 20/20 vision, might not be the best for someone with 20/40 vision or worse.
The Dumb Gun Collector
03-11-13, 17:14
I think novice shooters are better off with three dots. Preferably with a green front and weaker rears of a different color. Once you really, really have your grip down you can transition to a dot front. I ran three dots for years until I was in a low light class and realized that you are much more likely to be slowed down by three dots. I marked out my rear dots and have been doing so ever since. Also, buy a laser. People poo-poo lasers but in a low light situation a laser is king. Especially when shooting on the move or shooting at moving targets. BUT I DIGRESS.
Magic_Salad0892
03-11-13, 19:20
I'm a natural pistol shooter. Glocks point very naturally for me but give me any handgun and I'll be accurate with it.
Which sights are you running?
10-8.
I've run 10-8 rear black sights on my 1911's for years and liked them. Currently have Ameriglo Operator sets on my M&P's, but thinking about switching to the 10-8 rear plus an Ameriglo Proglo front.
kihnspiracy
03-12-13, 02:29
I have 10-8 tritium fronts with black serrated rears on all my Glocks. As I have aged, I found that combo works best for my eyes.
I have standard Trijicon NSs on my duty guns and I use a sharpie to black out the rear dots and tritium. I can still see the rear dots, but they are subdued, thus drawing my eye to the front sight, but enabling me to still see the rear dots if necessary. I have to occassionally touch them up, but they hold up pretty well.
I was highly skeptical of the black rear sights at first, and thought it was just another 'trend' if you will...then I tried it. I shoot more accurately and MUCH faster with the black rear sights. On my Glock 19, I have Ameriglo Operators (green front w/ white outline, dimmer yellow tritium in back w/ no white outline) and on my CM9 I have a Trijicon front w/ white outline and blacked out rear sight via a Sharpie.
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