View Full Version : When will the ammo madness end?
Mauser KAR98K
02-23-13, 19:56
Where I am in TN it seems the gun buying madness has subsided (I've had an M4 for sale for the past 6 weeks with no takers at $1500 and two PMAGS), but ammo is none existent.
What is the situation with production from the various ammo companies? What other factors are causing this shortage aside from the super-hyper demand? And for the love of God when will things go back to normal?
This has severely cut into my practice time, and I'm worried as shooting is a perishable skill. I have been doing everything I can as far as dry firing, but it feel enough for me. Last outing I did saw piss poor performance. Last year about this time I had already gone through 2,000 rounds from different calibers. Now I have barley gone past 500 rounds.
And where the hell is all this ammo going? I don't see people training hard enough to justify it. Are people really that afraid that they are stock piling so much? My guitar instructor at my college told me he has never seen .22lr out of stock. Ever. He fears people are arming and stockpiling for a civil war. Hell, Aurora didn't cause this much panic. Even after Obama said he was for an AWB during the election and after the election their was no panic. I understand Sandy Hook has been the crux of all of this, but the AWB the Feinswine put out has no forward momentum currently with a House under Republican control, and with many states kicking AWB in the butt. I know I posted a thread that we are losing (and I still believe we are, but that tide is shifting), but things should have either leveled out or have began to see a rebound. It has gotten a lot worse.
What are the true factors driving this? There has to be more than just a AWB proposal and a sudden increase of demand.
Media hysteria...local news stations are really saturating this, every time two thugs/junkies get shot in a public place over a bad drug deal it's declared a "mass shooting" and they run a two hour special on gun control/violence, it's discussed every night at prime time, and every gun show sees a half dozen reporters now.
Mauser KAR98K
02-23-13, 20:14
we actually had a report that a range that helps with local law enforcement training was pleading with the government and the media to back off because their customers and and officers cannot find ammo to train with. Wish the media and the likes would take the damn hint. What, is the demand for bad news that high?
GeorgiaBoy
02-23-13, 20:18
To pretty much sum it up (from what I know)...
- Ammo manufacturers produce enough ammo to meet the normal demand. This keeps ammo on shelves and it is nearly always available.
- A hysteria come along (2008 election, 2012 election/Sandy Hook), people begin to stock up ammunition [which is stupid for a variety of reasons]. A lot of these people are the ones who barely buy 100 rounds a year, but are suddenly buying hundreds per month. A much higher demand is created.
- Ammo manufacters ramp up manufacturing as much as they can. (most of them)
- During the post-buying crisis, because ammo is just now coming back into stock, everyone buys it as soon as it comes back in. That in turn heavily slows the rate at which retailers can get ammo in stock, because everyone buys it as soon as they find it. That makes it appear that there is not a lot of ammo.
montanadave
02-23-13, 20:40
I recall reading a WSJ article back in 2008 about a bunch of Wall Street types buying up shitloads of ammo anticipating a major gun control initiative from the newly-elected Obama administration and huge runups in ammunition prices. Well, as most recall, there was a period of panic buying but then the dust settled and prices stabilized. I'm guessing most of the ammo speculators that time around ended up holding their own dick.
I suspect we'll see a similar scenario play out in a couple of months when the AWB fails to clear the Senate and the House never even lets it in the door.
Hopefully soon. I am scarred for life from this, lol.
D. Christopher
02-23-13, 21:22
People that think stocking up on ammo is stupid are what we call the "have-not's". If those people had stocked up they'd have ammo now and wouldn't be saying silly things on internet forums and blaming everybody else for the fact that they don't have ammo.
What's the old saying about Noah building the ark BEFORE the flood? Everybody talks a big game about training, but training is about one thing, and that's preparation. If you didn't see this coming you weren't paying attention (or worse) and all the preparation in the world won't save you if you don't see the threat approaching. The last 5 years have seen the largest increase in civilian firearms sales in the history of this nation. On top of that millions of people are panic buying anything they see left on the shelves. And smart gun store owner's aren't putting everything they've got out on the shelves.
Pretending that other people that you don't even know are going to leave some ammo on the shelf for you just because it would be thoughtful of them to leave some for others is insane. Certified batshit-level crazy! People don't think like that even when things are calm.
If the rest of the year goes perfectly for gun owner's, all the gun grabbing bills in every state fail, and there's not one single case of a rampage shooter slaughtering dozens of innocents, and some of the buying panic begins to subside, there will STILL be major ammo shortages when 2014 arrives. And how likely do you think it is that all those bills will fail, nobody will attempt another Newtown or Virginia Tech this year, gun sales will slow down, and buying panic will subside?
If your needs aren't being met then you better do a reality check or drop some of your needs. You think it's bad now? These are the good old days! Wait till you see what's coming.
People are scared, same as the last time.
D. Christopher
02-23-13, 21:27
People are scared, same as the last time.
Except now there are many millions more than last time.
GeorgiaBoy
02-23-13, 21:30
People that think stocking up on ammo is stupid are what we call the "have-not's". If those people had stocked up they'd have ammo now and wouldn't be saying silly things on internet forums and blaming everybody else for the fact that they don't have ammo.
Everyone gets it. You have plenty of ammo. Congratulations. Pat yourself on the back. Good job.
Im pretty sure there will be a time in the next year or so when ammo gets real cheap. All the 100 round a year guys who bought 5000 rounds are not going to be buying for years.
Simple law of supply and demand.
GeorgiaBoy
02-23-13, 21:48
Im pretty sure there will be a time in the next year or so when ammo gets real cheap. All the 100 round a year guys who bought 5000 rounds are not going to be buying for years.
Simple law of supply and demand.
I think availability will start being more prominent by this Fall, but prices may take longer to lower.
I severely doubt we will ever see M193 for $5.50 a box again. Finding brass 9mm for under $10 will also probably be impossible.
FlyingHunter
02-23-13, 21:53
Perhaps the worst is behind us, I was in my LGS yesterday and he had .223, .308, 9mm, 45acp, and even... gasp 500rd bricks of .22lr. Prices were slightly above normal but not bad all things considered.
I was told our RSR rep that many mfg's are out 9 months on popular calibers.
D. Christopher
02-23-13, 22:31
Everyone gets it. You have plenty of ammo. Congratulations. Pat yourself on the back. Good job.
Everyone except you. You're still blaming the world for not leaving you any ammo. Well done!
You only need a few guns, you can never have too much ammo.
I saw this coming, and anyone who owned a gun in 2008 and posts on this board should have too. I stocked up on thousands of rounds in 2011-early 2012, and I bought it cheap.
I shoot as I please, I can train for about 12-18 months and have some self defense ammo left.
I doubt prices will be back to where I want in less than 12 months. But when it does I will buy up thousands of rounds again, and not worry again. At this point I have 5 ARs and 5 Glocks, so I'm good on guns. The future for me is all about buying good ammo in bulk when I see good deals. Basically I would like to always have 5-10k rounds each of 9mm and 5.56. Hopefully over the next year I won't fall under that 5k level.
Mauser KAR98K
02-23-13, 22:56
People that think stocking up on ammo is stupid are what we call the "have-not's". If those people had stocked up they'd have ammo now and wouldn't be saying silly things on internet forums and blaming everybody else for the fact that they don't have ammo.
Pretending that other people that you don't even know are going to leave some ammo on the shelf for you just because it would be thoughtful of them to leave some for others is insane. Certified batshit-level crazy! People don't think like that even when things are calm.
I had no illusions. I have a good stock, but I am still rationing my major calibers because I do not know how long this crap is going to last. What is bad is that I have gotten into .22lr and plinking training and hunting, and my stock is almost dried up. A shortage of .22lr was something I did not fathom.
GeorgiaBoy
02-23-13, 23:04
Everyone except you. You're still blaming the world for not leaving you any ammo. Well done!
I have plenty of ammo, and have never stated to the contrary. I have simply stated several times the main reason that ammo is hard to find right now.
You simply jumped to conclusions in order to boast about your "preparedness" and put everyone down that didn't stockpile the last few years.
I just stopped going to the range. I am not going to dip into my reserves.
Magic_Salad0892
02-23-13, 23:19
I've been training with my SIRT pistol. That way I can retain the muscle memory, and run some Bill Drills while I'm still here in CA, and at home without having to burn ammo.
Hunter Rose
02-23-13, 23:36
I just stopped going to the range. I am not going to dip into my reserves.
So what's the point of having reserves if you don't dip into them to go shooting?
kaltesherz
02-23-13, 23:47
I had a pretty decent stock of 5.56 and 9mm and have been shooting like normal, if anything more than normal- but just realized my 9mm is low so I'm going to post-pone anything other than zeroing and test firing my new upper. I have a shitload of 5.45 for my '74, and enough M2 Ball for my Garand to last it's barrels lifetime, but man 5.56 and 9mm goes fast through my training cycles- got a feeling this ammo drought might last as long as 2008- if not longer...
I made a calculated bet that after the 2012 election people would realize the President really wasn't going to ban any weapons... boy was I wrong. Thank god I'm good on mags...
D. Christopher
02-24-13, 00:03
...people begin to stock up ammunition [which is stupid for a variety of reasons]...
When you keep repeating things like this on threads that talk about the shortage of ammo it's hard to believe that you have plenty of ammo. You didn't stockpile did you? By your own words you'd be stupid to do that. I just think you're a whiner with a very poor argument, that's all. :sarcastic:
GeorgiaBoy
02-24-13, 00:21
When you keep repeating things like this on threads that talk about the shortage of ammo it's hard to believe that you have plenty of ammo. You didn't stockpile did you? By your own words you'd be stupid to do that. I just think you're a whiner with a very poor argument, that's all. :sarcastic:
Sigh........ :rolleyes:
"Stupid for a variety of reasons" is in response to the buying craze itself. Not a single politician in Washington right now is planning on doing anything to ammo. Yet, shooters than never actually shoot (normally) will "stockpile" on ammo in election years out of irrational fear. It creates an influx of millions of people buying ammunition that virtually never do and cause a shortage out of their own fears.
Onto the ignore list you go... not worth my time.
Alaskapopo
02-24-13, 00:32
Sigh........ :rolleyes:
"Stupid for a variety of reasons" is in response to the buying craze itself. Not a single politician in Washington right now is planning on doing anything to ammo. Yet, shooters than never actually shoot (normally) will "stockpile" on ammo in election years out of irrational fear. It creates an influx of millions of people buying ammunition that virtually never do and cause a shortage out of their own fears.
Onto the ignore list you go... not worth my time.
I would not call it an irrational fear. I agree that the chance is very little that ammo will be banned but evil men out there do want to do it and its better to have a stockpile set aside than to not. I always have more reloading components on hand than I need. I should be fine. I feel bad for those who are not.
Pat
People that are saying this thing is almost over are not paying much attention. We have many states that are at least attempting the most Draconian laws we have seen yet. Sure, it seems that the federal deal is less likely now, but we really can't say for sure. Anyways, those who are still waiting for the SHTF, well it is here now.
Thank you!
People that think stocking up on ammo is stupid are what we call the "have-not's". If those people had stocked up they'd have ammo now and wouldn't be saying silly things on internet forums and blaming everybody else for the fact that they don't have ammo.
What's the old saying about Noah building the ark BEFORE the flood? Everybody talks a big game about training, but training is about one thing, and that's preparation. If you didn't see this coming you weren't paying attention (or worse) and all the preparation in the world won't save you if you don't see the threat approaching. The last 5 years have seen the largest increase in civilian firearms sales in the history of this nation. On top of that millions of people are panic buying anything they see left on the shelves. And smart gun store owner's aren't putting everything they've got out on the shelves.
Pretending that other people that you don't even know are going to leave some ammo on the shelf for you just because it would be thoughtful of them to leave some for others is insane. Certified batshit-level crazy! People don't think like that even when things are calm.
If the rest of the year goes perfectly for gun owner's, all the gun grabbing bills in every state fail, and there's not one single case of a rampage shooter slaughtering dozens of innocents, and some of the buying panic begins to subside, there will STILL be major ammo shortages when 2014 arrives. And how likely do you think it is that all those bills will fail, nobody will attempt another Newtown or Virginia Tech this year, gun sales will slow down, and buying panic will subside?
If your needs aren't being met then you better do a reality check or drop some of your needs. You think it's bad now? These are the good old days! Wait till you see what's coming.
The same reason I have reserves. I will shoot XXX amount and that's it. The rest is for SHTF.
So what's the point of having reserves if you don't dip into them to go shooting?
I was told that all of 2013 is going to be rough. Supposedly there will be some import hitting shores down the road but don't jump for joy yet.
JBecker 72
02-24-13, 01:49
For some reason I keep getting lucky at Walmart on 9mm. I wish I could buy more than 3 boxes at a time though. The other day they had 2 UMC 250 round packs on the shelf and I got both. That is helpful as I have a pistol class soon and don't want to dip into my stash.
Last year I bought 5000 rounds of RWS 124 gr and its all gone now. I would kill a hobo to get another load of that stuff at this point.
As for AR ammo, I can find it, I'm just not gonna pay $.80 a round for pmc bronze. This year looks like I'm gonna be shooting a lot of skeet and letting my rifles sit. :(
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
GeorgiaBoy
02-24-13, 01:57
I was told that all of 2013 is going to be rough. Supposedly there will be some import hitting shores down the road but don't jump for joy yet.
Does import mean IMI/Eastern European stuff/etc, or is Wolf/Barnaul/Etc. included in that too?
Does import mean IMI/Eastern European stuff/etc, or is Wolf/Barnaul/Etc. included in that too?
I'm hoping South Korean and Australian personally.
Moose-Knuckle
02-24-13, 02:56
I stop by local sporting good chains daily and hit up Wal-Mart stores as they stage frieght at night, it might be a box here or there but it's there. Its hit or miss some days. This week alone I have scored Tula 7.62x39, IMI M193, Federal Champion 9mm, and CCI .22lr.
I don't pay panic prices online and I won't dip into my cache.
As far as the imported stuff I've picked up a case of Serbian PPU 5.56 at a Wal-Mart store, two Wal-Mart stores have received two cases each in my area. Also Academy Sports is stocking Independence 5.56, it's IMI M193 that Federal is bringing into CONUS.
I believe there's going to be an ammo and weapons shortage for a long time. The present administration will back off publicly on bans and restrictions and let the states deal with it, with their blessing. Every time a state capitulates it will initiate another round of buying. It only takes a few states at a time to fall and that sets off warning bells to the other state residents to get what they can ASAP.We have had record number of gun purchases in the last couple of years and naturally ammo to go along with it. Think about the number of states that are considering bans and restrictions. If they get a foothold, that will embolden other states to try. This can go on for years as each state takes a cut at it. This in turn leads to more buying of anything gun related. Their strategy is basically "Death from a thousand cuts". Whether it be states or municipalities. We should be more concerned about how to take the knife out of their hands. Do that and natural order will be preserved.
When you keep repeating things like this on threads that talk about the shortage of ammo it's hard to believe that you have plenty of ammo. You didn't stockpile did you? By your own words you'd be stupid to do that. I just think you're a whiner with a very poor argument, that's all. :sarcastic:
Dude, just shut the **** up. It's just childish at this point.
Magic_Salad0892
02-24-13, 04:32
I'm hoping South Korean and Australian personally.
The Firearm Blog reports that Austrailia will start importing.
I'm just happy that I've been an ammo-hoarder for most of my life so this craze has only really affected my ability to fuel my ARs. Some people may not remember, but before this craziness began, a lot ammo was already almost double the price of what it was in 2006. I never delete my e-mails, so when I started going back to 2005-2006 to see what I was paying, I nearly fell out of my chair! I was buying 50 round count boxes of US made quality .45ACP JHP for $13 a box! 00 Buck for $.29 a round! All of my friends that used to look at me like I was mad because I'd spend 200-300 a week+ on ammo are now the same folks trying to buy up my reserves! In the immortal words of Lt. Forgy: Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!
I'm just happy that I've been an ammo-hoarder for most of my life so this craze has only really affected my ability to fuel my ARs. Some people may not remember, but before this craziness began, a lot ammo was already almost double the price of what it was in 2006. I never delete my e-mails, so when I started going back to 2005-2006 to see what I was paying, I nearly fell out of my chair! I was buying 50 round count boxes of US made quality .45ACP JHP for $13 a box! 00 Buck for $.29 a round! All of my friends that used to look at me like I was mad because I'd spend 200-300 a week+ on ammo are now the same folks trying to buy up my reserves! In the immortal words of Lt. Forgy: Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!
I remember paying $35 for 250 pack of umc for the range back then. Has easily doubled.
I just sold 300 rds of 380 to my Cousin it was mainly Ranger T-series.
I could have put it on GB and raped somebody for a chunk of money But I thought I would rather a family member have it .
I have been sitting on it for a year or so .I would not Sell any of my 22lr I only have about 800 of that ,He is in North Georgia and is having a rough time finding anything and he just purchased his wife Walther 22 pistol and he carries a Walther PPK.
I did have a friend who i help get a Colt M4 before the panic Beg me to sell him some of my 5.56 But I am just sitting on it I have not really shot since last summer .and there is None around here and I only have a little over 1000 so as of now it is my SHTF Ammo until things get better
montanadave
02-24-13, 08:31
So am I crazy if I see a bit of a silver lining in all this? While the cost of materials has risen in recent years, obviously the major factor in escalating ammo costs is heightened demand.
So shouldn't ammo manufacturers be motivated to maintain or increase production because of virtually guaranteed high sales and increased profit margin? And there will have to be a tipping point when most folks driving the shortage will max out ... and our current shortage will transition into a glut with a commensurate drop in price.
Patience will win the day.
HackerF15E
02-24-13, 08:32
It was more than a year before stocks and prices leveled out post-2008 election, and IMHO that was a smaller 'panic' than the 1-2 punch of the Obama re-election and the Newtown shooting (and the gun control fallout).
There are a lot more firearms owners now because of this, and many of them are more 'panicky' now that so many elected officials are now introducing gun control legislation.
I don't expect to see retail inventories of ammunition be 'normal' -- whatever that new normal is in terms of pricing -- until 2014 or later. Even then, it depends on how the wind blows on this latest gun control hysteria. If bills become laws, and there is not much backlash against lawmakers who voted for those bills, I'd even expect that it will sustain at this level for longer.
Even after the 1994 AWB, prices eventually stabilized. I still have a new-in-packaging 15-round MecGar Beretta 92FS mag that I bought "cheap" at a gun show during the height of the AWB hype in late 1994, and the pricetag says $29.95.
What I learned from the '08 panic, is that for ten or more years ammo supply and demand was relatively static, and the need for different calibers, and the growth in demand were relatively easily predictable. Enough so anyways, that the manufacturers were able to plan their buying, production lines, etc. for quite some time in advance. Then suddenly all the supply was gone. At that point production was increased what it could be for the short term, and the long term was more difficult. Some companies expanded and invested in bigger and better facilities, etc.
Fast forward to about a year ago. Supply and prices were fairly stable, and some normalcy had returned. But then we get an even bigger panic, and despite everything that had been ramped up since '08, it was all gone again.
The one good news is that there is still a LOT of ammo being produced and delivered, it just sells freaking fast. One larger store here in FL announced a shipment of 100,000 rounds of .22lr and 50,000 rounds of .223. It was gone in 45 minutes
The one good news is that there is still a LOT of ammo being produced and delivered, it just sells freaking fast. One larger store here in FL announced a shipment of 100,000 rounds of .22lr and 50,000 rounds of .223. It was gone in 45 minutes
Probably less that a hundred customers snatched it up.
I'm in the group stocked up on ammo for civil war, but miss bulk reloading supplies and workin the press for entertainment..:dirol:
I figure as predicted earlier in this thread that in a few months we will see it return to normal.
However cost is elevated due to the rising cost of material, coupled with inflation.
Someone in another thread mentioned the lack of foreign ammo (i.e. import ban), is anyone seeming more of that coming in?
The one good news is that there is still a LOT of ammo being produced and delivered, it just sells freaking fast. One larger store here in FL announced a shipment of 100,000 rounds of .22lr and 50,000 rounds of .223. It was gone in 45 minutes
The funny thing is that 50k .223 sounds like a lot of ammo, but it's really nothing. 100k .22lr is even less impressive.
Someone in another thread mentioned the lack of foreign ammo (i.e. import ban), is anyone seeming more of that coming in?
It's flowing. Cabelas has had a bunches of its Herters line hitting stores, with .223 coming in surges. I grabbed 1k or so at .35/rd to spare my better ammo.
7.62x39 remains in curiously good supply. Good time to get reacquainted with my SKS. The Herters has even been on sale, down to .25-.30/rd.
TulAmmo 9mm and 40 are flowing as well, seen in Walmarts and LGSs.
Ammo is out there. Be attentive, be open to different manufacturers and skus, and be prepared to buy.
Mauser KAR98K
02-24-13, 11:41
I was absent in the '08 scare. I was an OTR trucker out for a month at a time with only 4 days off. I did stop in a Cabelas in Fort Worth, TX one month and saw the rifle rack filled with ARs, and the next month I dropped in it was bare. I knew stuff was flying off the shelves, but I did not keep tabs on prices. When I got off in '09 and went back into school, things were starting to get back to normal...for reloading. My dad bought a Dilion 650 right after Obummer got the crown.
Back then, I really wasn't the gun guy I had until I acquired my first AR-15 in 2010. Then I got introduced to the Art of the Dynamic Carbine and the training that came from this board. All of a sudden in 2011 I was shooting triple what I had been back in the early and mid-'00s.
So...this experience is all new to me...and man is it depressing. I feel like a Depression Era man roaming Wal-Mart for a job, but it is for ammo.
I am shooting 7.62X39 more than anything at the moment. I just like to get more right now.
I sure turned 18 and got myself into guns a little late :(
5 months later after my first AR and shotgun purchase, Barry and his minions really ruined my plans.
The NRA gets my money. I, however, believe guns and ammo will never go back to "normal." Though I never knew what that is.
I always though keep a 1,000 round stash. It's not a lot, however, with friends we could survive for a while, and I will try not to get into many gun fights, that seems like the best idea, lol.
PA PATRIOT
02-24-13, 12:21
So am I crazy if I see a bit of a silver lining in all this? While the cost of materials has risen in recent years, obviously the major factor in escalating ammo costs is heightened demand.
So shouldn't ammo manufacturers be motivated to maintain or increase production because of virtually guaranteed high sales and increased profit margin? And there will have to be a tipping point when most folks driving the shortage will max out ... and our current shortage will transition into a glut with a commensurate drop in price.
Patience will win the day.
I was recently told by a Federal L/E dealer that Federal for the first few months of the year dedicates the vast majority of their production to filling military and L/E contracts with a small percentage going to civilian sales.
Beside the mass buying rush currently under way this is also a low period of production for civilian sales so the shelves will most likely remain bare for at least some time to come.
This is to be expected with the current political climate. It happened in 07/08 & anyone in the shooting community that didn't think it would happen again is naive or a procrastinator for not stocking up themselves. When peoples rights are on the chopping block, what do you expect them to do? Even people who don't shoot much. I understand that it sucks not to have enough ammo to train with or keep your regular shooting schedule on track, but people are scared & buying up what they fear may not be available tomorrow. If all goes as expected through past crazes like this, things will be back on track within a year or so. But prices may not go back to where they were.
If anyone is to blame, it's not the average Joe buying up every round of ammo he can find, it's our piece of shit politicians for threatening to infringe on our rights.
The funny thing is that 50k .223 sounds like a lot of ammo, but it's really nothing. 100k .22lr is even less impressive.
It's flowing. Cabelas has had a bunches of its Herters line hitting stores, with .223 coming in surges. I grabbed 1k or so at .35/rd to spare my better ammo.
7.62x39 remains in curiously good supply. Good time to get reacquainted with my SKS. The Herters has even been on sale, down to .25-.30/rd.
TulAmmo 9mm and 40 are flowing as well, seen in Walmarts and LGSs.
Ammo is out there. Be attentive, be open to different manufacturers and skus, and be prepared to buy.
I have the same experiences. My local cabelas always has ample supply of 7.62x39 Herters on the shelf.
It was more than a year before stocks and prices leveled out post-2008 election, and IMHO that was a smaller 'panic' than the 1-2 punch of the Obama re-election and the Newtown shooting (and the gun control fallout).
There are a lot more firearms owners now because of this, and many of them are more 'panicky' now that so many elected officials are now introducing gun control legislation.
I don't expect to see retail inventories of ammunition be 'normal' -- whatever that new normal is in terms of pricing -- until 2014 or later.
Pretty reasonable. By my way of judging things, availability came back somewhat quickly, but we were only JUST getting back to pre-2008-panic pricing when the current donnybrook brewed up. This is worse, and I've reconciled myself to expect the recovery....IF there truly is one...to match.
I was fairly active, training in 2012, and didn't replenish as I ought to have. This nonsense caught me plain 'ol flat-footed, and I've nobody to blame but myself for it.
There's NOTHING on the shelves at the WalMarts here, except for .243 and 12ga. Anything to the contrary is gonna be pretty regional, I think; those who're still finding ammo in them...luckyyyy!
Here in AZ there is a very limited supply of ammo on the shelves. When you do find it, its either some oddball caliber or ridiculously priced.
The funny thing is that 50k .223 sounds like a lot of ammo, but it's really nothing. 100k .22lr is even less impressive.
It's flowing. Cabelas has had a bunches of its Herters line hitting stores, with .223 coming in surges. I grabbed 1k or so at .35/rd to spare my better ammo.
7.62x39 remains in curiously good supply. Good time to get reacquainted with my SKS. The Herters has even been on sale, down to .25-.30/rd.
TulAmmo 9mm and 40 are flowing as well, seen in Walmarts and LGSs.
Ammo is out there. Be attentive, be open to different manufacturers and skus, and be prepared to buy.
There's NOTHING on the shelves at the WalMarts here, except for .243 and 12ga. Anything to the contrary is gonna be pretty regional, I think; those who're still finding ammo in them...luckyyyy!
I feel your pain. I cant remember where I read it but there was an article stating that Utah was among the worst in the nation when it comes to panic buying. Hell each friday (that is the day they receive their shipment) at the local sportsmans there is over 200 people waiting for the doors to open to put their name in a hat to have a chance at ammo or firearms.
IYAAYASwarrior
02-24-13, 20:36
Here is something I have been using to help in the search for ammo locally. Just a couple of links:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Federal-Champion-9mm-Full-Metal-Jacket-Rounds/17617401
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Federal-Ammunition-223-Rem-55gr-Full-Metal-Jacket-100ct/17128629
Just update the location to your local stores. It's not the best available but it shoots clean. Hope I can help at least a few of you.
xjustintimex
02-24-13, 21:38
Pretty reasonable. By my way of judging things, availability came back somewhat quickly, but we were only JUST getting back to pre-2008-panic pricing when the current donnybrook brewed up. This is worse, and I've reconciled myself to expect the recovery....IF there truly is one...to match.
I was fairly active, training in 2012, and didn't replenish as I ought to have. This nonsense caught me plain 'ol flat-footed, and I've nobody to blame but myself for it.
There's NOTHING on the shelves at the WalMarts here, except for .243 and 12ga. Anything to the contrary is gonna be pretty regional, I think; those who're still finding ammo in them...luckyyyy!
Same, I was doing wayy to much shooting and not enough hoarding I guess... I have been making the rounds to all the guns shops, walmarts, academy stores, bass-pro exc and ammo is just.. gone...
Mauser KAR98K
02-24-13, 23:11
At least we know what are not the popular calibers. 22-250.
At least we know what are not the popular calibers. 22-250.
Yup...and I see a decent amount of .243 and .270 as well. And for how much .17hmr I can find, maybe I need to pick one up :P
Moose-Knuckle
02-25-13, 02:06
I was recently told by a Federal L/E dealer that Federal for the first few months of the year dedicates the vast majority of their production to filling military and L/E contracts with a small percentage going to civilian sales.
Correct, there have been several threads on the matter, all of them locked, DHS alone has made large (in the billions) orders/purchases for ammo over the next several years. This only adds to the problem of ammo availability.
30 cal slut
02-25-13, 08:33
There's quite a bit of .38 Special and 12 gauge shotgun ammo.
Everything else ... .22 LR, 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .223/5.56, 7.62 x 39. 7.62 NATO, even .50 BMG ... GONE.
Now, where is that dang revolver I thought I had? :lol:
MAN!.. I was out in a fairly well trafficed shooting spot for 7 hours on Saturday... And I didn't see one single other shooter out there....
And this is our PRIME shooting weather season... People don't want to shoot what ammo they have! :eek:
MAN!.. I was out in a fairly well trafficed shooting spot for 7 hours on Saturday... And I didn't see one single other shooter out there....
And this is our PRIME shooting weather season... People don't want to shoot what ammo they have! :eek:
My local club is having a problem with attendance being down so much, since it means lower revenue while costs are increasing. This time last year I would have to get there a minimum of 30 minutes before the range opened to be sure I didn't have to wait for a lane. This year? well, I have not been yet this year....
brickboy240
02-25-13, 12:42
Here is what I am seeing now in the 4th largest city in America and it has not changed much in 2 months.
9mm fmj in bulk is never on shelves - some 20rd HP boxes show up now and then but get scarfed up quickly
ditto for any 22LR...almost never seen...anywhere
223 comes and goes and it is not unusual to see no 223s in stock at a store
45ACP is around in bulk and seems easier to find than 223
40SW has always been around and you can get it in bulk fairly easy
308 is in the same numbers and frequency as 223
most popular hunting rifle rounds like 243, 30-06 and 300WM are around and you will not have problems finding them
17HMR is also around if you look for it
most revolver rounds are around but 38/357s are low or not in many stores on a regular basis
for some odd reason, 7.62x39 is around and I see it in every Academy store I go in and even saw Tula Ammo at Wal Mart!
That is how it goes around here. There seems to be no let-up in the shortages and it seems odd and inconsistent what you see...and do not see on shelves right now.
-brickboy240
Mauser KAR98K
02-25-13, 12:54
How much is the 7.62X39 going for? It is non-existent where I live. And if you can find it, it is $15 for a box of 20 (Wolf).
Moose-Knuckle
02-25-13, 13:02
Both Acadmey and Wal-Mart has it at normal prices (when they can keep in in stock that is), Acadmey $5.99 one box limit and Wal-Mart $4.99 limit three boxes.
militarymoron
02-25-13, 13:04
i've always kept buying ammo when prices were reasonable so i didn't have to panic buy, so i have a decent supply at home. even so, i've started shooting my .22LR upper much more recently. depending on the drill, i'll swap it with the .223 upper. no need for .223 under 15 yards. when shooting steel out to 50, then the .223 upper goes back on. so, i shoot about half the amount of .223 in one session that i used to (typically around 500 rounds per session). shooting 500 rounds or .223 and 300 rounds of 9mm every month eats up ammo pretty quickly. i also dusted off my .22LR walther P22 - that's a fun pistol to shoot, but it's so tiny it's difficult to manipulate.
when i got my .22LR upper about 3 years ago, i bought about 12K of .22LR to go with it. glad i did, as it's coming in handy now. every one of my shooting buddies who i urged to buy a .22 LR upper years ago and didn't, now regrets it.
there's barely any ammo at local gun shops available, and at inflated prices if they are.
IMHO, with all the new AR15 owners in the last 3 months, speculating, panic buying, hording or stocking up on ammo, possible future ammo legislation (regulation/tax), and then just another mass shooting away and it starts all over again. I believe ammo will probably be the last thing to come back and the prices may never come all the way back to where they were.
RogerinTPA
02-25-13, 16:48
So what's the point of having reserves if you don't dip into them to go shooting?
Emergency SHTF stash. I'm fortunate to have stocked up on training, as well as emergency ammo. I used to shoot anywhere from 16K-20K rounds a year, shooting every weekend for years. I have enough for a few carbine and pistol classes for the next few years. When you see Wolf ammo going for 300-400 for a half case, and brass going for 900-1000 per case, I'm done buying ammo these days. Back four years ago, prices went up, but they also fell back below preObama prices. This time around, if the situation turns around, they will not be going back to pre-sandy hook prices. I am down to shooting once or twice a month, if I conserve, until this issue subsides.. Which won't be for the few years, but I won't touch my SHTF ammo. If I run out before this situation turns around, then I'm down to my airsoft training M4, but my emergency stash won't be touched.
PA PATRIOT
02-25-13, 17:11
I was able to locate two 1000rd cases of Tulammo .223 55gr H/P that a buddy was able to keep off the shelve until I arrived and it worked out to 0.37 a round after taxes and 5% NRA member discount.
My buddy owned me a favor for fixing his S&W auto that he delivered in a paper bag to me (He tried a detailed strip and clean) and a later to be named lunch special at Outback Steak house but thats what finding some bulk ammo costs these days.
Every one of my sources have officially dried up so thank God for the .22LR as it will have to suffice as a gap filler for some time to come.
IMHO, with all the new AR15 owners in the last 3 months, speculating, panic buying, hording or stocking up on ammo, possible future ammo legislation (regulation/tax), and then just another mass shooting away and it starts all over again. I believe ammo will probably be the last thing to come back and the prices may never come all the way back to where they were.
True dat. With everything going on, the gov. won't have to impose any new taxes or bans on ammo. I doubt we will see good prices anytime soon.....if ever.
You guys are depressing the hell out of me.
CarlosDJackal
02-25-13, 23:21
FWIW, I picked up 3 boxes of Winchester 9mm "White Box" Value Pack from the local Wal-Mart yesterday. I grabbed the last three boxes and a friend of mine bought the previous three.
They also had about 8 boxes of .45 Value Packs as well.
I never thought I would see this
I use gunbot to find ammo deals (website that compiles prices of ammo from a huge amount of online retailers, check it out if you haven't)....
Anyway...over on gunbot it shows that, right now, you can get .45 ball for cheaper than 9mm ball
(PMC .45 is available from Midway for .42/round....PMC 9mm is available from lucky gunner for .44/round...cheapest currently available for each caliber)
Anyway...over on gunbot it shows that, right now, you can get .45 ball for cheaper than 9mm ball
Same with 40. Crazy. Simple supply and demand.
Rmplstlskn
02-27-13, 18:48
Had time today to hit all the local Walmarts, Dicks, and local gun shops.... Here is what I found: NOTHING!
Walmart was empty of EVERYTHING but a few hunting rounds and some 12g. Dick's had nothing... Local shops had some high end handgun and rifle ammo, zero 9mm, 223, or 22LR...
I have never, in my 4 decades on earth, seen a time where I could not easily buy 22LR ammo...
What is the deal with the 22LR drought? 223 & 9mm I can understand, but 22LR??? :sad:
Rmpl
Moose-Knuckle
02-27-13, 18:57
Had time today to hit all the local Walmarts, Dicks, and local gun shops.... Here is what I found: NOTHING!
Walmart was empty of EVERYTHING but a few hunting rounds and some 12g. Dick's had nothing... Local shops had some high end handgun and rifle ammo, zero 9mm, 223, or 22LR...
I have never, in my 4 decades on earth, seen a time where I could not easily buy 22LR ammo...
What is the deal with the 22LR drought? 223 & 9mm I can understand, but 22LR??? :sad:
Rmpl
You have to hit Wal-Mart as they stage frieght at night, Dick's when they first open (there is usually a line waiting at the door).
As for the .22LR shortage, it makes since. In the last few years a lot of new popular rimfires have come to market. Most folks cannot afford to train and or plink with much else these days.
I have picked up CCI Mini-Mags, CCI AR Tactical, and CCI Standard Velocity at local Wal-Mart stores and a LE supply house. It's hit or miss but some days you hit pay dirt.
You have to hit Wal-Mart as they stage frieght at night, Dick's when they first open (there is usually a line waiting at the door).
As for the .22LR shortage, it makes since. In the last few years a lot of new popular rimfires have come to market. Most folks cannot afford to train and or plink with much else these days.
I have picked up CCI Mini-Mags, CCI AR Tactical, and CCI Standard Velocity at local Wal-Mart stores and a LE supply house. It's hit or miss but some days you hit pay dirt.
Understand the point of not being able to train with nothing else but .22 Moose but honestly how many people are out there really training with this stuff? How many people are out there with an M&P 15-22 or M&P 22 running the gun to train as close to their big guns? Around here I just dont see it.
I was doing drills yesterday w/my M&P 22 and literally shot until my last round of .22. My fault I know for not stocking up on the little rounds but knowing when the timer went off this was the last round was just depressing.
-Jax
PA PATRIOT
02-27-13, 19:12
Local Dicks Sporting Goods had a three 500rd cases of .223 come in, Two Federal and one Remington and it sold out in 15 minutes even with a three box limit. I was told the line was 40 deep when they unlocked the doors all looking for ammo.
Moose-Knuckle
02-27-13, 19:47
Understand the point of not being able to train with nothing else but .22 Moose but honestly how many people are out there really training with this stuff? How many people are out there with an M&P 15-22 or M&P 22 running the gun to train as close to their big guns? Around here I just dont see it.
I was doing drills yesterday w/my M&P 22 and literally shot until my last round of .22. My fault I know for not stocking up on the little rounds but knowing when the timer went off this was the last round was just depressing.
-Jax
IIRC I was reading in the SME sub-forum recently and some of the SMEs have now approved rimfires for training classes due to the ammo situation (i.e. cost).
In '08 we saw a shortage of .380 (I don't own one) but at the time of Barry's first election some popular pocket pistols came out. The ammo was just not being made in quantity on top of the panic. Just look at the demand of .22LR here on M4C. It's nuts I know.
Alaskapopo
02-27-13, 20:42
Understand the point of not being able to train with nothing else but .22 Moose but honestly how many people are out there really training with this stuff? How many people are out there with an M&P 15-22 or M&P 22 running the gun to train as close to their big guns? Around here I just dont see it.
I was doing drills yesterday w/my M&P 22 and literally shot until my last round of .22. My fault I know for not stocking up on the little rounds but knowing when the timer went off this was the last round was just depressing.
-Jax
I use .22's a lot for practicing for three gun and I know a lot of three gun shooters do the same as well. It does work quite well for practice inside of 50 yards.
Pat
I use .22's a lot for practicing for three gun and I know a lot of three gun shooters do the same as well. It does work quite well for practice inside of 50 yards.
Pat
Well...it did Pat. :sad:
-Jax
Alaskapopo
02-27-13, 23:08
Well...it did Pat. :sad:
-Jax
I am set up pretty well on .22 ammo too. Had a bunch of powder and primers come in from an order made a few months back from Powder valley. I think things are going to start getting better.
Pat
Mauser KAR98K
06-14-13, 11:01
Here is a good article I found on the ammo shortage and how we can help it STOP!!!
http://oldgunhand.com/?p=2373&utm_source=feedly
If we buy up a few years worth of ammo; more than we need for the next few years, are we likely to keep buying once we know that ammo is once again readily available? Odds are that most of us will start using up the ammo we have stockpiled secure in the knowledge that we can easily replace it with ammo that is now plentiful and inexpensive. We then will cause the opposite of what we caused now; low demand.
Nope! Guys like me will be buying it up as we don't want to be caught flat-footed the next time.
My local pawn shop had a box of 325 rd Federal target ammo. I thought I was seeing things. Paid $22 for it. This is the first box of .22 I have seen around here since December. Good sign.
Also had 10 boxes of my favorite training ammo which is .223 Bronze 55g for $9 each. First time for that as well since the world went nuts.
-Jax
It was funny... 4 weeks back, Cabelas had rimfire, but you could only get 2 50 rounders.... limit. Not used to paying for just 100 rounds of rimfire.
brickboy240
06-14-13, 11:25
The "ammo madness" around here has gotten much better.
223, 9mm, 45 and 308 can be found and sometimes in big numbers.
The 22LR is still an issue, though. It is very hit and miss on 22LR.
I have found it a few trips lately...but most shops only sell you one box per customer. Also, the stock they are getting in varies wildly from week to week. Sometimes they get in the 550rd boxes, other times it is only individual 50rd boxes. Other times, only CCI Mini Mag 100rd boxes. Brands and quantities very wildly and so does the frequency in which it shows up at stores.
17HMR seems to be coming back. I see it everywhere and they will usually let you buy more than one box per customer.
I also see mags coming back to stores. But again...the types of mags and brands vary wildly from place to place.
It is getting better but the rimfire situation is far from stabilized.
-brickboy240
Things are showing up VERY slowly around here (central Tx). No 22 yet in bulk packs, but I'm decently stocked with that. Ordering primers online was interesting. Was told the times would shit in 10 days or so even though they are in stock. Apparently UPS only allows 100# of hazmat per semi. Wonder how long that has been going on and whether that has any effect on distribution.
As for the future. I know that my ammo stock practices will change dramatically. I used to be a have 500 rds to a case on hand at all times knowing that I could get on line and have replacement in hand in a couple of days. My strategy will be very similar to what I inadvertently did with 22LR (not quite as aggressive of course). But I will keep a min of 3 cases on hand for 223 and 9. 22 LR ill keep the buy a bulk pack a week even if I hand shot any. That strategy has kept me able to go to the range while other have struggled. 22 LR may not be ideal, but its better than sitting at home.
A good rule of thumb is to backstock one year's supply of ammo in your common calibers. That constitutes your baseline reserve. Maintain a revolving supply over that quantity that is used and replaced.
6+ month back-orders become minor inconveniences than rather than crippling.
brickboy240
06-14-13, 16:30
That is pretty much what i did back on 08. I learned my lesson after the November 08 Obama scare 1.0 and stocked up afterwards.
However...I did not see the drought of 22LR coming. That did not happen in 08..not to this extent.
When it comes back...yes...I will stockpile 22LR like I did the other calibers.
Odd thing is that for the last 2 months...I have found 7.62x39 ammo everywhere and in quantity. Why is it plentiful but 9mm and 223 still somewhat scarce?
That is pretty much what i did back on 08. I learned my lesson after the November 08 Obama scare 1.0 and stocked up afterwards.
However...I did not see the drought of 22LR coming. That did not happen in 08..not to this extent.
When it comes back...yes...I will stockpile 22LR like I did the other calibers.
Odd thing is that for the last 2 months...I have found 7.62x39 ammo everywhere and in quantity. Why is it plentiful but 9mm and 223 still somewhat scarce?
Same here. I was caught with my pants down on .22 luckily I bought an AK and have been shooting that and restocking 7.62x39.
Ouroborous
06-14-13, 16:51
I recall reading a WSJ article back in 2008 about a bunch of Wall Street types buying up shitloads of ammo anticipating a major gun control initiative from the newly-elected Obama administration and huge runups in ammunition prices. Well, as most recall, there was a period of panic buying but then the dust settled and prices stabilized. I'm guessing most of the ammo speculators that time around ended up holding their own dick.
I suspect we'll see a similar scenario play out in a couple of months when the AWB fails to clear the Senate and the House never even lets it in the door.
I overheard a story at the LGS last week about a couple obamanites that rolled into his shop in early December. They said they had no interest in firearms and were there to buy (5.56) ammo on their investment advisors suggestion. They purchased $5k worth.
Two months later during the height of the craze the same people showed up to his shop and sold back the ammo they bought for $12k—the shop sold the boxes for a $1 a round.
Funny how the same people who vote to take away our 2A rights are quick to swoop in when there's a buck to be made.
On topic: I know of one shop that consistently has most popular calibers however, they're not well known and maintain stock by limiting purchases to 100rnds/caliber/day.
I won't personally consider this shortage over until I can find Ramshot TAC, 8208xbr, Primers, and bullets readily available.
Glad I saw the writing on the wall thanks in no small part to this forum and people like Grant warning us to make any necessary purchases back in March of last year. I purchased components and rimfire ammo until I simply couldn't find it anymore.
High Tower
06-14-13, 19:40
So am I crazy if I see a bit of a silver lining in all this? While the cost of materials has risen in recent years, obviously the major factor in escalating ammo costs is heightened demand.
So shouldn't ammo manufacturers be motivated to maintain or increase production because of virtually guaranteed high sales and increased profit margin? And there will have to be a tipping point when most folks driving the shortage will max out ... and our current shortage will transition into a glut with a commensurate drop in price.
Patience will win the day.
Agreed. Based on the 2008/9 panic, the ammo situation should return to normal in 2015. All of 2014 will be spent getting caught up. One distributors and stores get their orders filled and stock is sitting on the shelves, prices will drop and we may even see sales on ammo. This is my forecast assuming there are no other tragedies for the political scum to take advantage of.
morbidbattlecry
06-14-13, 20:46
If you scope out gunbot.net 7.62x39 has come back down to almost normal. Sadly there is no affordable 7.62x39 gun out there right now. At least one that doesn't suck. And sense Arsenal Inc decided there guns are made of gold now, i don't see any good options on that front. 5.45 is at a decent price right now too. Suprisingly 5.45 ak mags are all over the place right now. Strange times indeed.
PA PATRIOT
06-14-13, 23:51
I saw a few cases of IMI 5.56 M-193 at $7.99 per 20rds at a LGS and for the first time there was no limit stated.
Surprising to say the least with the IMI.
But he also had cases of Wolf .223 55gr FMJ & H/P for $5.49 per 20rds but that had a limit of a case per customer.
Also 7.62x39 was available but it was some brand I never heard of.
No 9mm or .22LR
Decent amounts of .40S&W and .45ACP
At this shop it appears things are starting to return to normal ammo wise.
Grand58742
06-15-13, 00:37
This is my forecast assuming there are no other tragedies for the political scum to take advantage of.
You mean besides the mid term elections? IIRC last midterm there was another run on ammo, but not quiet as bad as 2008. I was overseas for both of them, but saw a whole bunch of griping. But those that were around said they never saw a wholesale run on firearms, parts and ammo like this time.
Hoping 2014 turns the tide in the Senate and people don't panic once again.
Moose-Knuckle
06-15-13, 01:34
Also 7.62x39 was available but it was some brand I never heard of.
Do you recall the name? I'm interested to see if there is a new player in 7.62x39.
You mean besides the mid term elections?
Hoping 2014 turns the tide in the Senate and people don't panic once again.
I've been saying this since December: where the hell were all these people buying guns and ammo when it was time to vote?!? If they'd voted this way in November we wouldn't be having this problem.
platoonDaddy
06-15-13, 08:03
I've been saying this since December: where the hell were all these people buying guns and ammo when it was time to vote?!? If they'd voted this way in November we wouldn't be having this problem.
The local gun club that I belong to: one of the members is a FFL and a big time obama supporter. He bitches about the shortages etc., the MD firearm restrictions, but still votes straight 'D'. Of course doesn't want to hear or believe he is part of the problem.
How sad.
FlyingHunter
06-15-13, 09:58
To the OP, When will the ammo madness end?
I have no idea when.
I have my own perspective on how to know when it's over:
When I can randomly walk into any Walmart and buy .22, 9mm, .223 at the same time, similar to the "Pre-Barry" days. I'll know it's over.
Straight Shooter
06-15-13, 10:05
SSUP FH?!
Around here...things seem to be steadily improving. Ive noticed a
significant improvement in both amount/ availability & price on everything..5.56/9mm/45ACP/7.62/ect.
Everything EXCEPT .22LR. That's scarcer than hens teeth still.
Id really like to know whats up with that, its just odd to me.
CarlosDJackal
06-15-13, 10:25
Every time I come across gouge-priced ammo at the Gun Shop or a Gun Show, I have to fight the urge to kick someone in the nads! As much as I support capitalism, these assholes are causing the price of ammo to skyrocket!
For what it's worth, I recently took a carbine class & the instructor, who also does the ammo purchasing for a few LE dept's, told us that his vendors said not to expect ammo to return to normal for about 2 years. He & his LE colleagues are training on their own ammo currently.
High Tower
06-15-13, 18:09
You mean besides the mid term elections? IIRC last midterm there was another run on ammo, but not quiet as bad as 2008. I was overseas for both of them, but saw a whole bunch of griping. But those that were around said they never saw a wholesale run on firearms, parts and ammo like this time.
Hoping 2014 turns the tide in the Senate and people don't panic once again.
I was thinking more along the lines of yet another democrat walking into a building and murdering innocent people. But if the tide swings too far left in the mid-term elections that might also cause another uptick in sales. But the mindless who cause these panics due to their complete lack of preparation do not really follow elections - after the big O was re-elected, ammo and parts could still be bought with relative ease and at good prices.
NeoNeanderthal
06-15-13, 19:40
Just walked out of walmart with 750 rounds of 9mm (rem UMC). Girlfriend was not happy….but I was!!
brushy bill
06-15-13, 22:25
I've been saying this since December: where the hell were all these people buying guns and ammo when it was time to vote?!? If they'd voted this way in November we wouldn't be having this problem.
I make this point every time someone complains...how did you vote? If you supported the dems, shut up or vote different. And before someone comes along and argues that some democrats aren't anti-gun, but some republicans are, I say look at the overall numbers and how they would vote if they weren't facing a reelection.
Just remember some of the people sucking down guns, ammo and mags are apolitical and simply want to make money. Think independent Freedom Groupies. :D
Just walked out of walmart with 750 rounds of 9mm (rem UMC). Girlfriend was not happy….but I was!!
How nice that yours doesn't have a 1 box limit :shout:
The local gun club that I belong to: one of the members is a FFL and a big time obama supporter. He bitches about the shortages etc., the MD firearm restrictions, but still votes straight 'D'. Of course doesn't want to hear or believe he is part of the problem.
How sad.
He should be voted the f--- out of the club:mad:
The problem I'm having at the store that I run is that the prices WE are paying to just get the product in the door is more than what old pricing was......
The problem I'm having at the store that I run is that the prices WE are paying to just get the product in the door is more than what old pricing was......
Interesting. Do you buy from manufacturers, distributors or perhaps both? In other words who do you see manipulating their prices and by what percentage since let's say pre-12/14?
Interesting. Do you buy from manufacturers, distributors or perhaps both? In other words who do you see manipulating their prices and by what percentage since let's say pre-12/14?
We buy from both. Its the distributors who are manipulating prices. The only manufacturers we buy from is Glock and Ruger. The rest want WAY to much in volume for our area. We buy thru Jerry's and RSR, mostly from Jerry's.
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