M&P Storm Lake barrel

[mike benedict]

I bought a Storm Lake 9mm barrel for one of my M&P full size pistols. At first the groups were 10"-18" at 15 yds but after a.couple of.hundred rounds :mad: settled down and shot better. Better but not real consistent. My best group was 1 1/2" at 20 yds but it probably averaged 3" Ok but nothing to write home about. So today I faced and recrowned the barrel and the group size dropped.dramatically. my best group was one ragged hole except for one flyer.
I know a bunch of you have 9mm M&P barrels which don't shoot well for you for some reason so if anyone would like to.try a $10 experiment I would like to recrown a few 9mm barrels and see if it makes any difference. No promises of any improvement but if you want to pay shipping both ways I will crown the barrel for free and shoot a before and after group.

Mike

[mike benedict]

Here is the group 10 rounds of federal 115 Gr ball at 20 yards.
I shanked one round pretty badly

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/857783_425965074153645_1290482336_o.jpg

[morbidbattlecry]

Was that a called flyer?

[callen3615]

Was that a called flyer?

He just called it, didnt he? :p

[cdunn]

pm inbound

[mike benedict]

for those interested I will turn around your barrel in a couple of days.
I would need it over a weekend if you want me to shoot a group with it

Mike

[Hmac]

I bought a Storm Lake 9mm barrel for one of my M&P full size pistols. At first the groups were 10"-18" at 15 yds but after a.couple of.hundred rounds :mad: settled down and shot better. Better but not real consistent. My best group was 1 1/2" at 20 yds but it probably averaged 3" Ok but nothing to write home about. So today I faced and recrowned the barrel and the group size dropped.dramatically. my best group was one ragged hole except for one flyer.
I know a bunch of you have 9mm M&P barrels which don't shoot well for you for some reason so if anyone would like to.try a $10 experiment I would like to recrown a few 9mm barrels and see if it makes any difference. No promises of any improvement but if you want to pay shipping both ways I will crown the barrel for free and shoot a before and after group.

Mike

Interesting. Do you think that hand fitting the barrel to the slide makes a difference too (assuming you're using an oversize SL barrel)? I was under the impression that accuracy problems with some of the M&P's was more about barrel lockup than crown.

[mike benedict]

The barrel is one of Storm Lake's pre-fit match barrels.
It dropped right in.

[Hmac]

The barrel is one of Storm Lake's pre-fit match barrels.
It dropped right in.

I realize that, but if the problem with M&P accuracy is indeed lack of solid barrel lockup, would there be an advantage to hand fitting the barrel to the slide over recrowning?

You apparently have some gunsmithing skills, so I'm curious as to your take and how this might relate to the often-rumored accuracy issues that some M&Ps have.

[mike benedict]

I realize that, but if the problem with M&P accuracy is indeed lack of solid barrel lockup, would there be an advantage to hand fitting the barrel to the slide over recrowning?

You apparently have some gunsmithing skills, so I'm curious as to your take and how this might relate to the often-rumored accuracy issues that some M&Ps have.

I believe the fitting the hood to the slide would increase the accuracy potential but I don't know how much. I have had a lot of success with pistols by just facing the barrel so the surface is parallel to the bore and then crowning the barrel. In my collection of M&Ps (13) I don't have any factory barrels that don't shoot acceptably, except for the one I replaced after 70k rounds

I realize that a lot of folks have M&P barrels that don't shoot well for them. Some of the problems are no doubt software issues and some are probably hardware issues.

I think that this would be an interesting experiment

Mike

[mike benedict]

Here is another group. This one was 5 rounds of WW 147 TC at 20 Yds. The group measures 1.34"

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/c0.20.403.403/p403x403/555056_10200154880647704_1060790576_n.jpg

[jaxman7]

Mike,

I am game. Have an old threaded 9mm barrel that just sits there in my 'war closet'.

Would you be up for cutting and recrowning?

-Jax

[mike benedict]

I can cut.it off if you want

[tommyk42]

I have a barrel sitting around that you can try it on. Just let me know where to send it.

[mike benedict]

Talon Tactical
149 Cagle.Branch Rd
Jasper, Georgia 30143

[Lomshek]

Mike,

I'm up for an experiment if you're willing. I have two M&P 9 full size pistols. One is a couple years old and one is a mid 2012 manufacture.

Have you experienced the wildly varying POI that seems common? It is definitely an issue with both of mine.

The older one has been to the factory twice to address the accuracy issue. When new I was getting anything from 4.75 - 12" 10 round groups at 25 yards with various ammo. S&W first sent me a barrel with the chamber throat unfinished so loaded rounds would not chamber. A second trip back and they fixed that. The new barrel has cut avg group size down to 6ish inches but POI still varies radically between different ammo.

The newer M&P is (like the original) shooting 10+" groups with the factory ammo I've tried but I did not bother trying any premium ammo. I've yet to send it off because I've been waiting to see what Apex comes up with or if I should have Grant do a Storm Lake barrel.

For comparison an ancient Ruger P94 I have will shoot 3 - 5" 10 round 25 yd groups while a 22/45 I have shot sub 2" 10 rd groups the same day using Federal bulk pack .22 ammo.

Both M&P's are in 100% factory configuration and I have no doubt I am still learning how to master the M&P sproingy trigger pull which is probably contributing to the problem.

Would you want both complete pistols sent to you or what is your preference? I'm guessing I'd need to have my FFL ship them to you to stay legal.

[mike benedict]

Mike,

I'm up for an experiment if you're willing. I have two M&P 9 full size pistols. One is a couple years old and one is a mid 2012 manufacture.

Have you experienced the wildly varying POI that seems common? It is definitely an issue with both of mine.

The older one has been to the factory twice to address the accuracy issue. When new I was getting anything from 4.75 - 12" 10 round groups at 25 yards with various ammo. S&W first sent me a barrel with the chamber throat unfinished so loaded rounds would not chamber. A second trip back and they fixed that. The new barrel has cut avg group size down to 6ish inches but POI still varies radically between different ammo.



The newer M&P is (like the original) shooting 10+" groups with the factory ammo I've tried but I did not bother trying any premium ammo. I've yet to send it off because I've been waiting to see what Apex comes up with or if I should have Grant do a Storm Lake barrel.

For comparison an ancient Ruger P94 I have will shoot 3 - 5" 10 round 25 yd groups while a 22/45 I have shot sub 2" 10 rd groups the same day using Federal bulk pack .22 ammo.

Both M&P's are in 100% factory configuration and I have no doubt I am still learning how to master the M&P sproingy trigger pull which is probably contributing to the problem.

Would you want both complete pistols sent to you or what is your preference? I'm guessing I'd need to have my FFL ship them to you to stay legal.

There are certainly POI differences with loads but as wildly as you see.
Just send your barrel.

I now have around 10 barrels to test so that should be enough for now
I think this little test should be interestimg. I have done the same test with a group of s&w revolvers and most showed improvement several showed amazingimprovement

Mike

[JSantoro]

Was that a called flyer?

EDIT: I'm a doof. I somehow read that as "What is a...?" by mistake.

[jaxman7]

I can cut.it off if you want

Thanks man. I'll send it off tomorrow. How much extra for cutting?

-Jax

[mike benedict]

Thanks man. I'll send it off tomorrow. How much extra for cutting?

-Jax

Nothing extra

[m4brian]

I am quite interested in how this turns OUT. Thanks.

For what its worth, the crown on my '10 .45 looks perfectly recessed and ground. My two 9s (both '12s) do not. Although, I would think that hood/slide fit is also critical.

[jaxman7]

Nothing extra

Awesome and it is much appreciated. I will get it sent off tomorrow. Looking forward to the results.

-Jax

[williejc]

Mike,
Are .45 barrels included in your experiment? If so, I'd like to send mine.

willie

[bnanaphone]

Mike, thank you for offering this experiment. I sent you a PM with a picture of my best group using my 5" pro. Let me know if you think it is a worthy candidate.

[m4brian]

It would also be instructive to show a BEFORE and AFTER recrown set of pics.

[ARonBoard]

Are the accuracy issues with all full size 9s or are the threaded barrel models exempt from the issues?

[jaxman7]

Are the accuracy issues with all full size 9s or are the threaded barrel models exempt from the issues?

Supposedly partially due to unlocking too soon. If you have 2 barrels that unlock at the same time but both prematurely then it stands to reason that the longer/threaded barrel, which will leave the bullet in the barrel longer will be less accurate.

My bench shooting with both barrels confirms the standard barrel is slightly more accurate.

-Jax

ETA: The threaded barrel is a Smith LH threaded version. Cant remember the thread pitch.

[TeamGrazzi]

I didn't see this addressed in any posts, but are you doing a pre and post shot group? If you don't know how off it is on the pre side you won't have an accurate data sampling to make your assumption on. Just a thought and if you need any more 9mm barrels I can send you mine. Shooting 9-12 inch groups @ 25m although I don't have much experience with "distance" pistol shooting so it could be me.

[ARonBoard]

Thanks Jax.

Has S&W modified/updated the threaded barrels on new guns as well?

Will the "fitted" storm lake barrels outshoot the new barrels?

[Lomshek]

I didn't see this addressed in any posts, but are you doing a pre and post shot group? If you don't know how off it is on the pre side you won't have an accurate data sampling to make your assumption on.

I'm shooting 10 round groups I'll photo with the ammo I have on hand before I send my two barrels in this weekend.

I'll use WWB 115 gr, Winchester RA9T +p+ 127 gr, Federal HST 147 gr and a mediocre handloaded 147 GR Precision Bullet. That should cover the gamut of weights and types to illustrate the POA and accuracy issues.

[brushy bill]

Mike,

Any room/time for another 9mm barrel? I have my slide with Grant for a fitted Storm Lake and it would be informative to have one of your crowned barrels to do some comparison work with when my fitted barrel and slide returns. It's an earlier model prior to recent changes. Thanks.

Best,

Bill

[mikebenedict]

Mike, thank you for offering this experiment. I sent you a PM with a picture of my best group using my 5" pro. Let me know if you think it is a worthy candidate.

I don't have a PM or Pic

[mikebenedict]

I have quite a few barrels for the test now.
maybe I will do another batch later if the test results are positive.
I will shoot a before and after group and post some pictures
You can post your before and or after groups pictures here also if you want.

I have not seen or heard of any M&P .45 that shoot poorly but I'm sure there must be some.

[bnanaphone]

I don't have a PM or Pic

I sent my PM and pic to your account in the original post.

[C4IGrant]

Thanks Jax.

Has S&W modified/updated the threaded barrels on new guns as well?

Will the "fitted" storm lake barrels outshoot the new barrels?

S&W recently switched to 1/10 twist rate. While this does help, it is not a full solution (as the barrel hood to slide fit can still be kind of loose).

A fitted barrel (no matter the gun) will always improve accuracy.



C4

[MH64]

S&W recently switched to 1/10 twist rate. While this does help, it is not a full solution (as the barrel hood to slide fit can still be kind of loose).

A fitted barrel (no matter the gun) will always improve accuracy.



C4

Grant
What is the barrel twist on the fitted Storm Lake barrels?

[jaxman7]

I have a Storm Lake barrel on order. So b/t that barrel, my factory one, and the one Mike is going to recrown for me it should be quite interesting to see how each of them group once I get everything back to the house.

-Jax

ETA:

MH64,

The Storm Lake 9mm barrel is 1/16.

[C4IGrant]

Grant
What is the barrel twist on the fitted Storm Lake barrels?

1/10.


C4

[jaxman7]

1/10.


C4

Grant,

So Storm Lake has 2 twist rates? Midway says their's are 1/16.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/550366/storm-lake-semi-drop-in-barrel-smith-and-wesson-m-and-p-9mm-luger-1-in-16-twist-425-stainless-steel?cm_cat=CheckoutConfirm&cm_pla=ProductDescrip

-Jax

[C4IGrant]

Grant,

So Storm Lake has 2 twist rates? Midway says their's are 1/16.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/550366/storm-lake-semi-drop-in-barrel-smith-and-wesson-m-and-p-9mm-luger-1-in-16-twist-425-stainless-steel?cm_cat=CheckoutConfirm&cm_pla=ProductDescrip

-Jax



Correct. Most everything they do is a 1/16 twist. They will do special runs of 1/10 though.


C4

[jaxman7]

Copy. Thank ya sir.

-Jax

[C4IGrant]

This thread grabbed my interest (thanks Mike) so I took my S&W M&P barrel and squared it up and then put an 11 degree crown on it.

This barrel had a .006 space between the barrel hood and the slide and typically shot 7-8" groups with 115gr at 25yds. :eek: So I will be interested to see what difference this makes.



C4


http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SW/MP_9mm_Barrel_recrown.jpg

[jaxman7]

Cool. Looking forward to the results Grant.

-Jax

[brushy bill]

Thanks Grant. My slide is with you for a fitted Storm Lake barrel. Might wind up sending the old barrel to you for a crown if this works out.

[C4IGrant]

Thanks Grant. My slide is with you for a fitted Storm Lake barrel. Might wind up sending the old barrel to you for a crown if this works out.

Your fitted barrel is done and I crowned it (for free).



C4

[brushy bill]

Your fitted barrel is done and I crowned it (for free).



C4

Much appreciated Grant. Can't wait to shoot it. Pleasure doing business with you as always.

[GUNSLINGER733]

Grant what group sizes are you getting? I'm getting 3.5" groups with stock m&p 9 barrel. Thanks bro

[C4IGrant]

Grant what group sizes are you getting? I'm getting 3.5" groups with stock m&p 9 barrel. Thanks bro

With an RMR, I have shot half inch groups at 25yds (supported) with ball ammo and 1.5" groups at 50yds.



C4

[ARonBoard]

With an RMR, I have shot half inch groups at 25yds (supported) with ball ammo and 1.5" groups at 50yds.



C4

Is this with a factory crowned, a fitted storm lake , or a fitted and crowned storm lake?

[C4IGrant]

Is this with a factory crowned, a fitted storm lake , or a fitted and crowned storm lake?

This is an oversized SL barrel (which WE fitted). This barrel had a factory crown.

After seeing Mikes comments about his drop in SL barrel, I went and re-crowned my fitted barrel to see if I could squeeze out any more accuracy.



C4

[GUNSLINGER733]

With an RMR, I have shot half inch groups at 25yds (supported) with ball ammo and 1.5" groups at 50yds.



C4

Good stuff. Thanks Grant

[mike benedict]

I have crowned 3 M&P barrels now and man are those factory barrels hard.
I saw a little better group in one of the barrels but nothing to write home about. I managed to wreck both of my tool steel cutters on the process. The S&W barrels are just to hard to crown properly with my tools.
I have two barrels that I did not crown and I will send all the barrels back tomorrow.

So much for this experiment :(

Mike

[jaxman7]

mike,

How much are those cutters?

-Jax

[C4IGrant]

I have crowned 3 M&P barrels now and man are those factory barrels hard.
I saw a little better group in one of the barrels but nothing to write home about. I managed to wreck both of my tool steel cutters on the process. The S&W barrels are just to hard to crown properly with my tools.
I have two barrels that I did not crown and I will send all the barrels back tomorrow.

So much for this experiment :(

Mike

Agree. Are AMAZINGLY hard.


C4

[GUNSLINGER733]

We can do it at our shop. :)

[Lomshek]

I have crowned 3 M&P barrels now and man are those factory barrels hard.
I saw a little better group in one of the barrels but nothing to write home about. I managed to wreck both of my tool steel cutters on the process. The S&W barrels are just to hard to crown properly with my tools.
I have two barrels that I did not crown and I will send all the barrels back tomorrow.

So much for this experiment :(

Mike

Damn! I just sent my two to you Monday morning. You'll get them Wednesday. :sad:

I waited until after the weekend so I could document some before 10 round groups.

[tommyk42]

I have crowned 3 M&P barrels now and man are those factory barrels hard.
I saw a little better group in one of the barrels but nothing to write home about. I managed to wreck both of my tool steel cutters on the process. The S&W barrels are just to hard to crown properly with my tools.
I have two barrels that I did not crown and I will send all the barrels back tomorrow.

So much for this experiment :(

Mike
Did my barrel make the cut? I'm guessing no since it got there kind of late.

[Lomshek]

Mike,

In case you haven't shipped them back yet without opening the package I had included a $20 bill inside with the barrels to cover return shipping.

[C4IGrant]

Finally got a chance to shoot a 5rd group @ 25yds with the factory barrel I crowned. My best group was 4 inches. The rounds were just wild with no guess as too where they would end up.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SW/9mm_MP_Barrel_Group.jpg


Here is a 5rd group I shot right after the above one with a fitted SL barrel. Group was just a hair over 1".

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/StormLake/9mm_Barrel_11Crown.jpg


Ammo used in both groups was CCI Blazer.


IMHO, if I would have shot several 5rd groups and did an average, I would have seen my groups open up with the factory barrel to 5-6 inches I think.
Refacing and crowning a factory barrel that has a loose hood fit doesn't do much.




C4

[brushy bill]

Grant,

Did you find any measurable difference in the Storm Lake (pre-crown vs post-crown)?

[DBTN]

Thanks for posting more Storm Lake barrel goodness. That just makes the wait for my barrel all the harder.:)

[C4IGrant]

Grant,

Did you find any measurable difference in the Storm Lake (pre-crown vs post-crown)?

Not really. My guess is that it will just ensure consistency.


C4

[brushy bill]

Not really. My guess is that it will just ensure consistency.


C4

Thanks Grant