View Full Version : Carbine Handguard Alternatives
Please forgive the question below. Have tried to find an answer through searches, but can't quite find quite what I am looking for....
I have purchased a PSA M4 Premium Carbine. It has the standard basic carbine handguard (pic below). I want to upgrade to a rail type "drop-in" handguard. The problem I have is that several of the options I am finding have varying lengths (6 1/4" to 7"). Do I have to be very specific and match the EXACT length of my PSA hanguard? Or is there enough play in the installation that any of these "Carbine" replacement handguards will work?
Not mine...pic "borrowed" from Armslist.
http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2013/02/12/1049135_03_new_in_box_ar15_psa_m4_premium_640.jpg
Also interested in hearing what some of you recommendations are for a replacement handguard might be.
THANKS!!
Troy and Daniel Defense make some AWESOME drop in rails!!! As long as you purchase a "Carbine" length rail you will be fine. I am partial to the extended (12"-13") drop-in rails with a cut out for the front sight base.
If the description says it's a 2 piece or a drop in rail you won't have to punch the pins out of the FSB.
Have fun and nice rifle!!!
I would go with the DD Omega or KAC drop in. Another excellent option is the Centurion C4 though it will require removing the delta ring and handguard cap which isn't difficult.
"If you're gonna be dumb you gotta be tough"
thopkins22
03-01-13, 11:17
I would go with the DD Omega or KAC drop in. Another excellent option is the Centurion C4 though it will require removing the delta ring and handguard cap which isn't difficult.
My recommendation exactly. The DD Omega and KAC are both stupid easy to install, and the Omega gives you a free floated barrel.
The Centurion is what I'm putting on new uppers, but does require a little more work...which if you're new to the platform I'd likely avoid.
If a rail advertises itself as carbine length, and you're putting it on a carbine length gas system, and it doesn't fit then something is wrong with either the rail or the barreled upper. It will work, don't worry.
TriumphRat675
03-01-13, 11:21
I wish I had tried out the MOE handguards before dropping a couple hundred bucks on a rail and more on mounts, etc. An MOE with IWC light and sling mounts meet all of my needs for much, much less money.
You may want to give this a shot before getting all spendy. Worst comes to worst you can sell it all on the EE and get most of your money back.
thopkins22
03-01-13, 11:24
I wish I had tried out the MOE handguards before dropping a couple hundred bucks on a rail and more on mounts, etc. An MOE with IWC light and sling mounts meet all of my needs for much, much less money.
You may want to give this a shot before getting all spendy. Worst comes to worst you can sell it all on the EE and get most of your money back.
This is another good point. WHY do you want a railed hand guard? Because it looks cool? Because you want a flashlight on the rifle? If those are the only two reasons that you can articulate, then I'd suggest what Triumphrat675 said.
There are other good reasons to go with rails, but if you can't figure out what they are, then maybe you ought to put it off for a while and just shoot the thing until you can.
...I am partial to the extended (12"-13") drop-in rails with a cut out for the front sight base....
Who makes this type of expanded drop-in rail? Sounds worth investigating further!
I wish I had tried out the MOE handguards before dropping a couple hundred bucks on a rail and more on mounts, etc. An MOE with IWC light and sling mounts meet all of my needs for much, much less money....
Actually, I almost purchased a MOE handguard off of eBay last night. Really, all I want to add to mine would be an AFG, sling mount, and MAYBE a light later. Will the MOE work for all these add-ons?
Thanks for all the feedback so far!!
Actually, I almost purchased a MOE handguard off of eBay last night. Really, all I want to add to mine would be an AFG, sling mount, and MAYBE a light later. Will the MOE work for all these add-ons?
Thanks for all the feedback so far!!
Yes..
Who makes this type of expanded drop-in rail? Sounds worth investigating further!
Actually, I almost purchased a MOE handguard off of eBay last night. Really, all I want to add to mine would be an AFG, sling mount, and MAYBE a light later. Will the MOE work for all these add-ons?
Thanks for all the feedback so far!!
My MOE handguards have served very well. They make attachments for all of the above.
That still didn't stop me from moving to a DD M4 FSPM rail. It extends my grip further out, which is good for my long arms and really compliments my FSB mounted light......... mainly operating it.
I now understand how the weight factor is silly when arguing rail vs plastic handguards. The DD was ridiculously light.
Also compared to cheaper rails, including Troy, the DD fits my hand very comfortably.
I've bought several things from Primary Arms in the past and was very impressed by their in-house products. They have a drop-in carbine rail system that is VERY reasonably priced. Anybody here know anything about this product?
I recently put one of Troys Vtac Delta rails on my Colt and love it.
I run the MOE handguards on my BCM carbine and am completely satisfied. I don't run an AFG, but am running a sling mount and a light. I can't see the need to spend more $ for those simple needs on my rifle.
Who makes this type of expanded drop-in rail? Sounds worth investigating further!
Actually, I almost purchased a MOE handguard off of eBay last night. Really, all I want to add to mine would be an AFG, sling mount, and MAYBE a light later. Will the MOE work for all these add-ons?
Thanks for all the feedback so far!!
The Troy Battle Rails come in two configurations -- Delta and Charlie.
The Delta: http://store.troyind.com/Troy_VTAC_Delta_Rail_Carbine_p/srai-dvk-cxbt-00.htm
and the Charlie: http://store.troyind.com/Troy_BattleRail_Charlie_p/srai-chr-cxbt-00.htm
These are the only rails that I have personal experience with and thus the only one's I can recommend, I love them!!! The other's on this thread are suggesting some really good products too and should be looked into as well.
TacMedic556
03-01-13, 17:05
Finding a OMEGA 7.0 by DD is near impossible. I ended up putting the Centurion C4 Carbine cutout on my carbine and could not be happier. Look it up. Awesome and available with minimal work. Instructions by the manufacturer are easy.
Finding a OMEGA 7.0 by DD is near impossible. I ended up putting the Centurion C4 Carbine cutout on my carbine and could not be happier. Look it up. Awesome and available with minimal work. Instructions by the manufacturer are easy.
From what I've held, the centurions have an oval shape like DD. if I hadn't found the deal on my DD, I would have slapped a centurion fsp on there.
twistedcomrade
03-02-13, 07:13
If you had a mid length carbine, then I would say MOE. I have MOE on one of my BCM mid length uppers and will eventually buy one for my other one. MOE would be fine on a carbine length upper to, but if it were my rifle I would probably try to find an extended drop in rail.
Magic_Salad0892
03-02-13, 08:09
DD, or KAC drop in rails'll work.
I would look at Troy, Daniel Defense, or Midwest Industries
I am happy with my magpul MOE handguard on my BCM mid length rifle. DD rails are also nice, too.
If you want rails...DD or Centurion....if you dont...just get MOE handguards
I ended up putting the Centurion C4 Carbine cutout on my carbine and could not be happier. Look it up. Awesome and available with minimal work. Instructions by the manufacturer are easy.
Awesome rail, and gives a little extra room on a carbine. In stock at Bravo Company...
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Centurion-Arms-C4-Rail-System-Carbine-Cutout-p/centurion%200609-cc.htm
-Rainman
BillyJack2012
03-02-13, 16:51
Actually, I almost purchased a MOE handguard off of eBay last night.
I'd stay away from ebay. There's a lot of counterfeit gear floating around there. There are plenty of good, reputable businesses you can purchase from.
Brian Brazier
03-02-13, 19:33
I have bought several MOE Handguards from Ebay as long as you make sure they are not marked PTS, has the right product number from Magpul, and the seller has good feedback you should be fine, but with the ridiculously inflated prices AR parts are bringing on ebay I would go here https://www.primaryarms.com/Magpul_MOE_M4_Hand_Guard_Black_FREE_SHIPPING_p/mag440-blk.htm Primary Arms is one of the best places for AR parts, I have never had a bad experiance when buying from them. The MOE handguard is great, super versatile, and easy to use, you cant go wrong with one. I also like the Troy MRF-DI 7" drop in quad rail, and Midwest Industries Gen 2 Carbine Drop In rail.
I did the DD omega 7 on my 6920. Easy as hell to put on and it's free float. Took less than 10 mins to put on including tightening it down. If you can find one I highly recommend it.
....I would go here.... Primary Arms is one of the best places for AR parts, I have never had a bad experiance when buying from them....
Actually, I just bought Primary Arms' drop-in Carbine Quad Rail. Found several very positive reviews during some searches. Low cost, so if I don't like it then I am not out too much money!
Thanks for all the great information! If the PA rails don't work for me, I have a lot of other great suggestions to consider!
My suggestion would hands down be the Troy DeltaRail, it drops in in 5 minutes, is lightweight, and gives you lots of handgurd space including a perfect spot for a light.
Heres mine:
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p313/madcatjoe/IMG_20130224_161040_zps2f404995.jpg
My suggestion would hands down be the Troy DeltaRail, it drops in in 5 minutes, is lightweight, and gives you lots of handgurd space including a perfect spot for a light.
Heres mine:
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p313/madcatjoe/IMG_20130224_161040_zps2f404995.jpg
Very nice! Definitely on my short-list of rail systems to consider. Thanks for the picture!!
I've owned a few of the options mentioned here. The Magpul MOE handguards are really great for what they are - a huge improvement over stock. Very comfortable. The DD Omega was really good as well (and free floating, if I remember correctly). I also had a Troy drop-in rail before either of those. I liked the Magpul handguard way way more than the Troy drop-in rail I had, and not just based on price. It weighed much less, cost next to nothing, and did everything I ever asked it to (including mounting lights to it etc). What I'd recommend is get the Magpul MOE carbine handguard first, and then if you decide you want more later, you're not really out any money.
My handguard/rail ratings:
Centurion C4 > DD Omega > Magpul MOE > Troy Drop-In
Centurion C4 (midlength):
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l13/aaron_c_2006/DSC00931_zpsad36602d.jpg
Like many of the other posters, I have been very happy with the Magpul MOE handguards. Until a few days ago I had one on my first AR, and I still have one on my second AR (and probably will for awhile). Lightweight, inexpensive, extremely simple to "install" (if you can even call it that), can be had for $55-$60 or so from IWC with a flush-fitting QD attachment point already built in...I added an SMC light mount, also from IWC ( www.impactweaponscomponents.com )...what's not to like?
I'd also like to give a thumbs up to the Centurion C4 rail. I haven't shot with mine yet, but I did just install the Centurion C4 carbine cutout rail onto my Colt. The install wasn't difficult, although I used a Dremel tool. Plenty of how-to's on this forum and on YouTube. The C4 rail is light, strong, not too expensive, free-float, pretty easy to install (uses standard/stock GI barrel nut and requires no removal of the FSB or muzzle device), 4 built in QD attachment points (fore and aft on each side), and the cutout feature means that even though you can keep your fixed FSB (front sight base) you still get extra reach and real estate.
I've owned a few of the options mentioned here. The Magpul MOE handguards are really great for what they are - a huge improvement over stock. Very comfortable. The DD Omega was really good as well (and free floating, if I remember correctly). I also had a Troy drop-in rail before either of those. I liked the Magpul handguard way way more than the Troy drop-in rail I had, and not just based on price. It weighed much less, cost next to nothing, and did everything I ever asked it to (including mounting lights to it etc). What I'd recommend is get the Magpul MOE carbine handguard first, and then if you decide you want more later, you're not really out any money.
My handguard/rail ratings:
Centurion C4 > DD Omega > Magpul MOE > Troy Drop-In
Centurion C4 (midlength):
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l13/aaron_c_2006/DSC00931_zpsad36602d.jpg
So, what rail is pictured?
Did it come with the front folding sight, or is that the fsb?
HuntingTime
03-03-13, 13:28
Midwest Industries Gen2 SS series. Troy VTAC is also a great option. Both are lightweight with slightly different strokes for different folks.
Brian Brazier
03-03-13, 14:32
So, what rail is pictured?
Did it come with the front folding sight, or is that the fsb?
That is a Daniel Defense Omega X 12.0 the sight is a Magpul MBUS, there is a similar rail I have the Omega X 12.0 FSP, that has a cutout for the A2 sight post, but the install was $100 and the rail is around $300, I had Rainier Arms do mine, and I love it. The Troy Charlie Rail is a drop in option that is very similar.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t97/bbrazierkendo/IMG_20130214_152604_zps56897f4f.jpg
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p313/madcatjoe/IMG_20130224_161022_zps5d3f1a72.jpg
I also have a Daniel Defense Omega X rail, and while it is awesome, the install was lengthy and required tools, a vice, and some muscle. Im glad that I got it and installed it, but after installing the Troy Delta Rail about a week after on another rifle, I think that the Troy Charlie/Delta rails are a much more sensible option.
Brian Brazier
03-03-13, 15:38
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p313/madcatjoe/IMG_20130224_161022_zps5d3f1a72.jpg
I also have a Daniel Defense Omega X rail, and while it is awesome, the install was lengthy and required tools, a vice, and some muscle. Im glad that I got it and installed it, but after installing the Troy Delta Rail about a week after on another rifle, I think that the Troy Charlie/Delta rails are a much more sensible option.
I didnt install mine, I dont have all the right tools, had Rainier Arms do the Omega X FSP, and Surefire SOCOM MB at the same time, cost me $110 total, and ipi picked it up a day after dropping it off. I got my rail (NIB) wasnt new has some minor marks and dings for $200, I was looking at the Charlie when I found the DD, if I had to do over again I would have gotten the Charlie just because the DD want NIB.
UPDATE:
I received the Primary Arms two-piece drop-in quad rail. A little heavy, but not very noticeable once installed. VERY EASY install. For around $50 it is a great alternative to the standard A2 handguard. I forgot to take a pic, so here is a pic from PA...
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb190/marsh2001/Web%20photos/RailMounted.jpg
HOWEVER, I went ahead and decided to go the free-float rail route. A friend of mine had a PSA SQR 11" Quad Rail. So I removed the FSB and installed a low profile gas block and installed the 11" rail. Added a set of Magpul MBUS sights, and am very pleased with the results..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/QikStik/Guns%20PSA%20M4%20Carbine/PSAM4Carbine_2_zps792a427a.jpg
Now on to the next upgrade(s)!! :neo:
I wish I had tried out the MOE handguards before dropping a couple hundred bucks on a rail and more on mounts, etc. An MOE with IWC light and sling mounts meet all of my needs for much, much less money.
You may want to give this a shot before getting all spendy. Worst comes to worst you can sell it all on the EE and get most of your money back.
same here.. i bought a surefire M73 for my Colt and loved it ...until i shot a friends AR with the MOE... now my expensive M73 rail spends its time in a box in my gun room :rolleyes:
I put Midwest Industries 2 piece drop in quad rails on mine. They are holding up well and lock up solidly. I almost made the decision to free float and put DD rails on, but I went with the drop in instead. I havent regretted my decision yet.
I went with a DD Omega 7" rail. It did not require the removal of anything but the stock handguards and installed in about 10 minutes. Plus its free floating!
polymorpheous
03-17-13, 23:58
Money right down the toilet.
That is a Daniel Defense Omega X 12.0 the sight is a Magpul MBUS, there is a similar rail I have the Omega X 12.0 FSP...
WRONG. that's a Centurion C4 12"...
Brian Brazier
03-18-13, 15:55
WRONG. that's a Centurion C4 12"...
Your right it is a CA 12.0
Order the Troy/VTAC Delta Rail in FDE back in January, hopefully it should be here any day now... :(:(
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