View Full Version : Sorry Maryland . . .
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-senate-passes-gun-bill-20130228,0,7962023.story
Yikes. Apologies in advance if this has already been posted.
Such BS.
"You can get a gun faster than an apple or an orange..." Absolute BS. Only someone who has never bought a gun would say something so stupid. Lets hope it get stopped in the House of Delegates.
These places are starting to piss of the People's Republic, in a council meeting in LA some guy was saying how the PRK USE to have the strictest gun laws, that NY one upped them is unacceptable, thus they want even stricter gun laws which are now reaching insanity.
Sorry Maryland.
CarlosDJackal
02-28-13, 15:50
And this is why I left that God-forsaken state almost 13-years ago and have never had the urge to move back (even for a job).
I wonder how long before we start hearing the sucking sounds of all law-abiding gun-owners leaving that area?
It passed their state senate and now goes to their house of delegates. It's not written in stone, yet.
CarlosDJackal
02-28-13, 16:28
It passed their state senate and now goes to their house of delegates. It's not written in stone, yet.
Any idea what are its chances of failure in the House of Delegates?
Moose-Knuckle
02-28-13, 16:39
The snowball effect is well in play here . . .
PA PATRIOT
02-28-13, 18:11
Sucks to be them but they voted those gun hating politicians into office so they shall reap what they have sow.
Well, I for one am checking out. We have about 3 million too many liberals in an otherwise beautiful state.
F-Trooper05
02-28-13, 18:48
Terrible State anyways.
This is what happens when city politics ruin an otherwise fairly conservative state. CO is in the same boat, and eventually all states will be. I am glad I am no longer working in MD.
Response I got from Kevin Kelly, y'all should be proud of this man.
Dear Supporter of the Second Amendment:
Initially I take this opportunity to thank you for your recent email whereby you expressed adamant opposition to additional Gun Control initiatives which will be introduced in the 2013 Legislative Session of the Maryland General Assembly. Since I have been literally inundated by communications such as yours, I hereby respond to same, and simultaneously set forth my sentiments on Gun Control.
By manner of introduction I am a six term Delegate to the Maryland General Assembly representing Allegany County. I am an attorney by profession and during my entire twenty three years as a member of the General Assembly I have been assigned to the House Judiciary Committee. It should be noted the Judiciary Committee is the Committee to which all House of Delegates “Gun” initiatives are assigned. On a personal note, I am lawful owner of firearms and on numerous occasions I have been honored by various Pro – Gun Organizations for my staunch, unwavering support of the Second Amendment. Further, I possess an “A+” NRA rating.
I totally share your assessment that the current Legislative Session will unfortunately serve as a giant soapbox for Anti-Second Amendment zealots to spew their Gun-Hating venom and to pursue their Gun-Prohibition agendas.
Facts, statistics and common sense will be totally ignored as certain individuals jockey before the media to get their “on air” and/or “in print” opportunity to demonize the NRA and the Second Amendment Rights which the NRA protects and promotes. Simultaneously, many of these “Bashers” of the Second Amendment will utilize their media opportunities to demean those who support the Second Amendment; inferring such individuals “are of a lesser sophistication.”
The Gun-Haters will proclaim to the media “They support the Second Amendment” and they only intend to make “reasonable and responsible changes to the gun laws.” However, these same individuals will never legitimately pursue investigation of the true causes of violence in our society, specifically, broken homes, children born out of wedlock, absence of family structure, pervasiveness of drugs, street gangs, issues of a failed Mental Health System and the promotion/ glorification of violence in movies, on television and in video games, all of which serve to desensitize youth to the actual carnage caused by violence.
Further penalizing lawful gun owners and denying Second Amendment rights to these law abiding individuals will not reduce violent crime. On the contrary, the opposite is true. If law abiding citizens are denied their Second Amendment right to own firearms, then in that event, the only people to have guns will be the criminals. As such, you may be assured I will continue to oppose, and I will continue to vote against, any and all Anti - Second Amendment, Gun Control initiatives. Finally, I submit for your review the following email, statistical information and news article which you may find of interest.
Once again, your expression of Second Amendment support is deeply appreciated and if I can be of assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Sincerely yours,
Kevin Kelly, Delegate
Allegany County
kevin.kelly@house.state.md.us
The_War_Wagon
03-01-13, 06:11
It's getting scary to live in PA these days - we're SURROUNDED by The SUCK! :bad:
Wonder how much longer we can hold out? :fie:
platoonDaddy
03-01-13, 06:23
Response I got from Kevin Kelly, y'all should be proud of this man.
Sad to state he is in the minority! The house committee hearings start today and many will be there to support 2A and of course the Pro-AWB will also be there.
Yes, elections have consequences and we the law abiding citizens will certainly become outlaws. There is no friggin way I will register my firearms, they can kiss my dago ass.
If it wasn't for a son with special needs, I would have left years ago. Oh well that is life.
Oh before I forget one of PRO AWB representatives from the city has an amendment for a 50% tax on ammo. The border states will certainly see a lot of traffic if this passes.
L-N-L
EDIT: forgot to add - My Benelli M4 with pistol grip will be banned.
Such BS.
"You can get a gun faster than an apple or an orange..." Absolute BS. Only someone who has never bought a gun would say something so stupid. Lets hope it get stopped in the House of Delegates.
Yeah, I wasn't aware of a 7-10 day waiting period for an apple or an orange. wtf.
Magic_Salad0892
03-01-13, 06:50
It sickens me to think that a pro-2A politian would throw the blame at movies, video games, or music.
"This inanimate object didn't cause violence! This inanimate object did!"
So, information on this bill has been pretty hard to find.
Just trying to read some news online I find that this bill will spend about 3 days in the House before being voted on. There is no telling what sort of sausage will come out of this but does anyone know what may actually pass?
One more year, then I'm :neo:
Until then :help:
DreadPirateMoyer
03-01-13, 11:28
It's getting scary to live in PA these days - we're SURROUNDED by The SUCK! :bad:
Wonder how much longer we can hold out? :fie:
It is definitely scary, but we can hold out. Unlike Colorado, we don't have much to attract uber-liberal hipsters. We have some of the most regressive social laws in the US (state-controlled liquor? c'monnnn) and not much in the way of exotic resorts or beaches. We also have NYC only a few hours away, where all the anti-gun hipsters move to pursue their dream of interpretive dance instead of staying here. :lol:
Most of our Democrats are pro-gun with the exception of Philly, so we'll hold out for a while. We'll be OK for quite a while, I think.
This is one (of a few) reasons my son will move to WV in a week.
I hope Beretta pulls out of MD.
We NEED one major manufacturer to move based on gun laws; that will make other states (not all of them) take note and hopefully stop the madness.
So if this passes it doesn't mean those who already have what the state classifies as Assault Weapons have to dispose of them does it? Just curious because I have friends who live there.
platoonDaddy
03-01-13, 14:09
So if this passes it doesn't mean those who already have what the state classifies as Assault Weapons have to dispose of them does it? Just curious because I have friends who live there.
The following is cut and pasted from another forum. I asked the OP for permission to post, this is his reply: Sure, go for it. Just remember that they're only my interpretation, and even though I'm pretty good with law, it's not legal advice. Oh, and it's also not been passed yet. Fight the good fight, man.
SB281 Guns FAQ by "erwos"
Alright, kids, I am getting tired of people constantly asking the same questions about "is X banned?"... so here's a quick FAQ about the amended SB281.
Q: Can I keep my otherwise-banned guns?
A: Yes, provided they have been registered before January 1, 2014 and were in your possession in otherwise-banned configurations before October 1, 2013. This is called "grandfathering". If you are careful about registering, you will not lose any guns to this bill.
Whenever I write "banned", assume the gun can be grandfathered!
Q: Do I need a license (with fingerprinting) to keep my pistols?
A: No.
Q: Can I keep mags with a greater than 10rd capacity?
A: Yes. There is no ban on possession with magazines. They do not need to be registered.
Q: Are there any transport issues with grandfathered guns?
A: No. The original SB281 text was ambiguous about this, but the third reading text makes it very clear that transport is fine.
Q: Do I need to register a regulated firearm that I bought as regulated (ie, with a form 77r) within the state of Maryland?
A: UPDATED: this is a slightly trickier question than I gave it credit for. SB281 only specifies that you don't need to re-register assault long guns that you bought as an assault long gun. But if you did something like buy a pistol and somehow make an assault long gun out of it, or that pistol is now a banned copycat weapon (eg, PLR-16), it is possible you could be legally obligated to re-register.
Q: Does registering a gun turn it into an assault weapon?
A: No. All handguns are registered, but, clearly, not all handguns are banned assault weapons. Strictly speaking, there's nothing stopping you from registering a rifle or shotgun that's not in a banned configuration, or even guns that wouldn't be affected ever (pump shotguns!). Understand that the other side of this is that you cannot just turn a registered gun into an assault weapon (legally) after the ban if it wasn't ever an assault weapon before October 1, 2013.
Q: What are the evil features for semi-auto centerfire rifles that take detachable mags?
A: The list is:
1. Pistol Grip
2. Forward pistol grip (aka, vertical foregrip)
3. Folding or telescoping stock
4. Grenade or flare launcher
5. Flash hider
THE ABILITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAG IS NOT COUNTED AS AN EVIL FEATURE.
Q: What are the evil features for semi-auto pistols that take detachable mags?
A: The list is:
1. Threaded barrel that can take a muzzle device
2. "Second handgrip" (note that this is not defined in the law...)
3. Barrel shroud
4. The ability to accept a detachable mag outside the pistol grip (eg, as found in the Sig P556 pistol).
THE ABILITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAG IS NOT COUNTED AS AN EVIL FEATURE.
Q: What are the evil features for semi-auto shotguns?
A: There's only two, but if you have either, you're banned (one feature test):
1. Pistol grip AND folding/collapsing stock
2. Revolving magazine (think "Street Sweeper").
How does the evil feature test work?
A: The amended SB281 has a "two feature test". If you have two "evil features", your centerfire rifle with detachable mags or pistol is banned (but see above about grandfathering). Semi-auto shotguns are only banned if they've got both a pistol grip and collapsing/telescoping stock, or if it's a revolver shotgun, as noted above.
Q: Is X feature banned?
A: Asking about any particular evil feature is basically useless. Just having one won't ban a pistol or rifle.
Q: How does this affect non-semi-auto guns (pumps, levers, bolt guns, etc.)?
A: It does not ban any non-semi-auto guns!
Q: Does the feature test applies to semi-auto rimfire pistols that take detachable mags?
A: Yes.
Q: My pistol takes mags that have a greater than 10rd capacity. Is it banned?
A: A fixed magazine greater than 10rds can get a semiauto centerfire rifle or semiauto pistol banned. It's a complete non-issue for detachable mags, albeit you won't be able to buy them in the state.
Q: What gun has a fixed mag greater than 10rds that's not a .22LR tube mag?
A: A modded SKS comes to mind.
Q: Are combo flash hiders / brakes and flash hiders / comps considered flash hiders?
A: If it reduces flash, it's a flash hider. The bill is pretty clear about that.
Q: What's going on with threaded barrels?
A: Threaded barrels are not an evil feature on semi-auto centerfire rifles with detachable mags (but flash hiders are). They are an evil feature on pistols.
Q: Are AR-15 rifles that can accept 5.56x45 mags in the magwell and function with a 5.56x45 upper banned?
A: Unless it's an HBAR, yes. They are named assault long guns.
Q: Are AK rifles banned?
A: Yes. They are named assault long guns.
Q: Are AR-15 pistols banned?
A: If you have an AR-15 pistol without a threaded barrel, it would not be banned. Note that you cannot transfer AR-15 pistols or pistol lowers in Maryland, except with very limited exceptions as found in the roster.
Q: Are 5.56x45-compatible AR-15 stripped lowers banned?
A: No one is really sure how these will be treated by the MSP. There is a possibility they could be banned; there is also a possibility they could become unregulated.
Q: I have a stripped AR-15 lower. Do I need to build it in a banned configuration before the ban?
A: Issues related to stripped AR-15 lowers are going to depend on MSP interpretation so much that it's impossible to answer them. We may want to have a friendly delegate request a formal AG opinion if SB218 becomes law.
Q: I have an HBAR AR-15 that I bought as unregulated, but is in a configuration that would be banned (eg, flash hider plus pistol grip). Do I need to register it if SB281 becomes law?
A: If you want to keep it and keep it in that configuration, yes. Another option is to convert it to an unbanned configuration, in which case you would not need to register it (eg, comp+PG+fixed stock).
Otherwise, you can sell/move it out of state. It cannot legally be in your possession after January 1, 2014 and not be registered.
Q: I have a dedicated .22LR AR-15 like the M&P15-22 that can't accept 5.56x45 magazines. Is it banned?
A: No.
Q: I have a .22LR AR-15 built on a 5.56x45-compatible AR-15 lower. Is it banned?
A: No one's sure yet. It has a lot to do with the answer to the stripped lowers question. There's also some ambiguity about what happens if you pin in a Catch22 bolt release (which prevents non-.22LR uppers from functioning with the lower).
Q: Are there any regulated rifles and shotguns if SB281 passes?
A: Nope. The old list of regulated rifles and shotguns get turned into completely-banned "assault long guns". There's no provision for regulated transfers of any other rifles or shotguns.
Q: What's going on with bullet buttons?
A: The way the bill is currently written, no one's sure. It mentions them explicitly, but in a way that would seem to allow you to use them. Given the other compromises in this bill, this may be intentional.
Q: What's going on with suppressors?
A: Suppresors per se are not banned, but you may find centerfire rifle with detachable mag hosts harder to come by. Suppressors are flash hiders. Flash hiders are an evil feature on semi-auto centerfire rifles with detachable mags. They are not an evil feature on pistols (but threaded barrels are).
Q: What's going on with machineguns?
A: Machineguns are exempt from the ban, as it specifies "semiautomatic" weapons. This is thought to be intentional.
Q: What's going on with SBRs?
A: Rimfire SBRs that use detachable mags should be fine if they're not in the named list of rifles. Centerfire semi-auto SBRs that use detachable mags may get banned due to OAL issues and/or failing the feature test. It is not currently known how the MSP will interpret certain other laws that interact with this bill. If you want an SBR, file the form 1 or form 4 right now and get it to SBR barrel length or OAL before October 1, 2013. You almost certainly do not have time to do a form 3->form 4 transfer at this point, though.
Q: What's going on with SBSs?
A: SBSs are not banned, although they may need to be compliant with the feature test. It is not currently known how the MSP will interpret certain other laws that interact with this bill. If you want an SBS that would not be compliant, file the form 1 or form 4 right now and get it to the banned configuration before October 1, 2013. You almost certainly do not have time to do a form 3->form 4 transfer at this point, though.
Q: Can I build an SBR out of a grandfathered gun after the ban comes into effect?
A: This is definitely a grey area. There are competing federal and state standards for what constitutes manufacturing of firearms. I would not assume you could do this.
Q: What's going on with AOWs?
A: They're allowed, but they will not override the ban. You need to make sure your AOW is compliant (eg, you can't have a second handgrip and threaded barrel on the same pistol-based AOW). An example of a compliant AOW would be a Serbu Super Shorty.
It is definitely scary, but we can hold out. Unlike Colorado, we don't have much to attract uber-liberal hipsters. We have some of the most regressive social laws in the US (state-controlled liquor? c'monnnn) and not much in the way of exotic resorts or beaches. We also have NYC only a few hours away, where all the anti-gun hipsters move to pursue their dream of interpretive dance instead of staying here. :lol:
Most of our Democrats are pro-gun with the exception of Philly, so we'll hold out for a while. We'll be OK for quite a while, I think.
I wouldn't hold my breath on the legislature holding out for too long simply cause the individuals are pro gun. They are first and foremost politicians which means they will sway with the wind. If uncle Obama comes at them with $$$$ or the loss of $$$$ how many will stay true is the question. Each and every one of these elected officials has a weak point and very few have integrity. Not a good combination.
IMO it's just a matter of time now. Better enjoy your hobbies while you can.
DreadPirateMoyer
03-01-13, 14:49
It'd have to be a ton of money/cabinet positions considering the legislature is majority Republican, barely sways below 50/50 the other way, and at least half of the Democrats here are "pro-gun." He'd have to buy something like 60 votes. Good luck with that.
Not to mention anti-gunners are rare in this state outside of Philly, which is roughly 10% of the population, and anti-gunners often move out of the state for Delaware, Jersey, Maryland, and New York.
We're the Alabama of the North, and that reputation helps keep the anti-gunners out. It also attracts pro-gunners from neighboring states. Don't see it happening anytime soon.
PA PATRIOT
03-01-13, 15:53
It's getting scary to live in PA these days - we're SURROUNDED by The SUCK! :bad:
Wonder how much longer we can hold out? :fie:
I would say we are like the "Alamo" but they lost in the end so lets just start building the wall now and maybe it will be finished by the time the crazy crawls this far.
I would say we are like the "Alamo" but they lost in the end so lets just start building the wall now and maybe it will be finished by the time the crazy crawls this far.
I agree. We have NY, NJ, and MD. They all have crazy gun laws. At least WV and OH are good to go. We may have to join the South!!:smile:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-senate-passes-gun-bill-20130228,0,7962023.story
Yikes. Apologies in advance if this has already been posted.
It's absolutely ridiculous. Here in MD grassroots civil rights organizations (big thanks to Maryland Shall Issue for their work) worked tirelessly to inform and motivate people to email, write, call their senators, and show up in person to protest this bill while it was in committee. Staffers reported getting over a hundred thousands emails per day against the bill in the days leading to the hearing.
Due to their efforts about 4000 people (estimate from the MSP) took off work and showed up in Annapolis to stand in line for half the day so they could register to testify against this bill in front of the committee. Staffers and senators commented that more people turned out that day to participate in the legislative process than they had ever seen, and this included folks who were present during the civil rights struggles of the 60's. So many people came out to protest the stripping of their rights that the fire marshal had to close the senate building, apparently for the first time ever.
In the end the local media reported that "hundreds" of people showed up before they switched coverage to Obama (who happened to land in Annapolis on the same day to talk strategy with MD democrats), the Democratic committee chair only let a small fraction of the citizens in attendance speak against the bill before sending everyone home, and ultimately when they met later the committee laughed as they voted it right through. (not an exaggeration, on live audio stream the committee members laughed and joked as they rubber stamped the bill to move forward)
And icing on the cake, one Democrat senator was photographed playing chess on his computer while the folks who took time off of work, fought traffic and stood in lines for hours testified against this attack on their rights. (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/02/07/antigun-maryland-state-senator-plays-chess-to-ignore-progun-testimony-n1507429)
That's Maryland politics for ya.
For anyone interested, the House of Delegates committee hearing (their version of the bill) is going on right now. Over a thousand people registered to testify against the bill (verse less than 50 for) and the testimony has been going on for almost 12 hours straight so far.
platoonDaddy
03-04-13, 09:00
"These are true officers of the law." I salute them!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogS0gSV6eP0
gunrunner505
03-04-13, 09:32
Awesome video and compelling testimony. Many states it seems have the same problem as Maryland, a big push for strict gun laws while at the same time, release violent felons back into the world after serving an absurdly small portion of their sentence.
Put the bad guy in jail and keep him there. That's how you reduce crime.
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danattyfatty
03-08-13, 09:13
Despite the amazing testimony from the pro gun side that utterly destroyed and exposed the lies spewed by O'Malley's puppets (who by the way, is setting himself up for a presidential run), the senate is nothing more than a rubber stamp for the governor.
In the house, there are more pro gunners willing to stand against this, and the fight is certainly on. Who knows what amendments may come out.
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platoonDaddy
03-08-13, 11:46
. Who knows what amendments may come out.
Today House bill 1277 - 50% tax on ammo.
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