Belmont31R
03-01-13, 22:34
Austrian economics is free enterprise, and low government intervention.
Keynesian is government spending is the economy and everything should go to support that.
The latest sequestration debate, between really, Boehner and Obama, is really these two ideologies clashing. Obama, a Keynesian, believes in government spending to get out of a depression, and while I'll reserve judgement for this sentence to make a point Boehner is Austrian.
Obama has already gotten 3 tax increases with ZERO spending cuts, and by spending cuts I mean spending less this year than last year. Since he has been in office spending has gone up every year.
As evident by his argument government spending is the only way out of our economic woes deficits and debt be damned. This is Keynesian.
The economic conservative or libertarian believes LESS government spending spurs economic growth.
There actually have been two examples of both theories in practice in America. After WW1 there was a large world wide depression as would be expected after a major draw down in forces, and government spending for war efforts where governments will go into deep debt to keep funding the fighting. We had a couple presidents handle our post WW1 depression, and they were Harding and Coolidge. They eliminated spending and taxes so much at one point, even with an income tax, less than 5% of Americans paid an income tax at all. What was the result? The Roaring 20's.
In contrast, post 29' crash, we had Keynesian's in charge with Hoover and Roosevelt. I am sure we all learned about how FDR saved us from the Great Depression, and his public works projects and spending got us out of the Great Depression. I propose the only reason it's called the Great Depression is because the economic policies of the 30's were so bad the only thing that saved us was entering WW2, and there is plenty of information out there on FDR theories where it was a deliberate act to get us involved because a World War would be the only thing to snap us out of the slump. In fact, even after the official end of the GD, there were 2 more recessions, and in 1940 the unemployment rate was still above 10%. FDR's policies in the 30's were a failure, and while the unemployment rate did improve you have to remember this guy served FOUR terms.
If you can imagine 4 Obama terms with a compliant congress, and a scared as shit Supreme Court, that was who FDR was. It was 4 terms of turning us into a centrally planned economy where government spending was what spurred growth. What do we have today? A near total lack of acknowledgement of anything to help the private sector, and an almost total focus on the public sector. The sequester? A total focus on government jobs. What is the public government sector funded on? 1.6 trillion a year in new debt, numerous tax hikes, and a nervous private sector.
Announced today was the biggest monthly drop in private sector income in TWO decades....all to fuel government. This is the Keynesian vs Austrian argument, and you should google both and learn about them.
My opinion in all this is that the private sector economy will not rebound until there is drastic reforms in regards to taxes, and roll of government. We need a Harding/Coolidge style economy to bounce back. More debt, and more government spending cannot possibly bring us out of this slump, and those unemployment numbers the news throws around are so cooked the real number is double into the 20's. I saw a poll today where 45% of people in their 20's are still living at home...the highest number ever reported. They may have a job...but they have 20k + in student loans working jobs HS kids used to do. I also read an article this week where Americans are the lowest rating ever for affordability of a new car, and before you buy used guys freak out that effects used car prices, too, due to increased demand.
In all this doom and gloom Obama is hashing out spending in 2013 will top 2012's spending even with the cuts...since those cuts are nothing but a reduction in the increase of spending from 2012 to 2013. This is the same old trick local governments like to play where teachers, firefighters, and officers get cut first while zero anything else gets cut. This is ONLY done to scare the people into supporting the spending and taxes while NOTHING is done to cut waste. Waste will be the last thing cut. They will make cuts the most visible, and the most painful on purpose. There has been ZERO done to cut waste, abuse, overlapping programs and agencies, fraud, ect. Nothing is done on that. Not a single thing. Instead we get Obama talking about DOD school teachers, he parades firefighters around, and threatens food safety along with flight delays. Not a single mention of looking at the almost 4 trillion dollar yearly spending, and seeing if less than 3% of that can be cut.
If you know someone who's job is being reduced in pay/hours or are yourself subject to this I want to first say that I don't anyones job to to be cut but at the same time we HAVE to reduce spending. While you or a buddy might have a good contractor job the Reserve has increased the paper money supply by more than 400% in the last 4 years, and every dollar you make is worth less today than it was yesterday. We have a fundamental flaw where DOD spending is 'discretionary', and welfare spending is 'non-disrectionary'. The military is specifically listed in Section 1-8 as a function of government. Welfare is not. How on Earth is military spending a discretion, and welfare is not a discretion? That means welfare is more important than Constitutionally mandated functions of Congress. Dwell on that for a minute.
I want you people effected by this to know your government thinks the work you do is less important than sending a check to a welfare rat or 'pensioner' at the Europeans would say. That SS check to someone who didn't earn it is more important than reforming spending or whats mandated to Congress in 1-8. I firmly believe stopping the acquisition of debt, at this point, is more important than almost any DOD contractor job, and while I'd rather see the welfare checks get stopped before you're earned paycheck if this is how it has to happen then so be it. It's not just YOU that is getting hurt. While the private sector is facing the biggest monthly drop in income in 2 decades SS recipients got a COLA raise this year.
In closing...I want people to learn about all these economic theories, and I want people to think about the deeper meaning behind people say what they do. Almost never will a politician make a statement that doesn't have a dual meaning. Usually the most obvious is directed at idiots, and secondary meaning is their true intent only apparent to those who know the code words, understand various ideology, and can interpret their carefully crafted words. Almost every political speech is directed at the lowest common denominator.
Keynesian is government spending is the economy and everything should go to support that.
The latest sequestration debate, between really, Boehner and Obama, is really these two ideologies clashing. Obama, a Keynesian, believes in government spending to get out of a depression, and while I'll reserve judgement for this sentence to make a point Boehner is Austrian.
Obama has already gotten 3 tax increases with ZERO spending cuts, and by spending cuts I mean spending less this year than last year. Since he has been in office spending has gone up every year.
As evident by his argument government spending is the only way out of our economic woes deficits and debt be damned. This is Keynesian.
The economic conservative or libertarian believes LESS government spending spurs economic growth.
There actually have been two examples of both theories in practice in America. After WW1 there was a large world wide depression as would be expected after a major draw down in forces, and government spending for war efforts where governments will go into deep debt to keep funding the fighting. We had a couple presidents handle our post WW1 depression, and they were Harding and Coolidge. They eliminated spending and taxes so much at one point, even with an income tax, less than 5% of Americans paid an income tax at all. What was the result? The Roaring 20's.
In contrast, post 29' crash, we had Keynesian's in charge with Hoover and Roosevelt. I am sure we all learned about how FDR saved us from the Great Depression, and his public works projects and spending got us out of the Great Depression. I propose the only reason it's called the Great Depression is because the economic policies of the 30's were so bad the only thing that saved us was entering WW2, and there is plenty of information out there on FDR theories where it was a deliberate act to get us involved because a World War would be the only thing to snap us out of the slump. In fact, even after the official end of the GD, there were 2 more recessions, and in 1940 the unemployment rate was still above 10%. FDR's policies in the 30's were a failure, and while the unemployment rate did improve you have to remember this guy served FOUR terms.
If you can imagine 4 Obama terms with a compliant congress, and a scared as shit Supreme Court, that was who FDR was. It was 4 terms of turning us into a centrally planned economy where government spending was what spurred growth. What do we have today? A near total lack of acknowledgement of anything to help the private sector, and an almost total focus on the public sector. The sequester? A total focus on government jobs. What is the public government sector funded on? 1.6 trillion a year in new debt, numerous tax hikes, and a nervous private sector.
Announced today was the biggest monthly drop in private sector income in TWO decades....all to fuel government. This is the Keynesian vs Austrian argument, and you should google both and learn about them.
My opinion in all this is that the private sector economy will not rebound until there is drastic reforms in regards to taxes, and roll of government. We need a Harding/Coolidge style economy to bounce back. More debt, and more government spending cannot possibly bring us out of this slump, and those unemployment numbers the news throws around are so cooked the real number is double into the 20's. I saw a poll today where 45% of people in their 20's are still living at home...the highest number ever reported. They may have a job...but they have 20k + in student loans working jobs HS kids used to do. I also read an article this week where Americans are the lowest rating ever for affordability of a new car, and before you buy used guys freak out that effects used car prices, too, due to increased demand.
In all this doom and gloom Obama is hashing out spending in 2013 will top 2012's spending even with the cuts...since those cuts are nothing but a reduction in the increase of spending from 2012 to 2013. This is the same old trick local governments like to play where teachers, firefighters, and officers get cut first while zero anything else gets cut. This is ONLY done to scare the people into supporting the spending and taxes while NOTHING is done to cut waste. Waste will be the last thing cut. They will make cuts the most visible, and the most painful on purpose. There has been ZERO done to cut waste, abuse, overlapping programs and agencies, fraud, ect. Nothing is done on that. Not a single thing. Instead we get Obama talking about DOD school teachers, he parades firefighters around, and threatens food safety along with flight delays. Not a single mention of looking at the almost 4 trillion dollar yearly spending, and seeing if less than 3% of that can be cut.
If you know someone who's job is being reduced in pay/hours or are yourself subject to this I want to first say that I don't anyones job to to be cut but at the same time we HAVE to reduce spending. While you or a buddy might have a good contractor job the Reserve has increased the paper money supply by more than 400% in the last 4 years, and every dollar you make is worth less today than it was yesterday. We have a fundamental flaw where DOD spending is 'discretionary', and welfare spending is 'non-disrectionary'. The military is specifically listed in Section 1-8 as a function of government. Welfare is not. How on Earth is military spending a discretion, and welfare is not a discretion? That means welfare is more important than Constitutionally mandated functions of Congress. Dwell on that for a minute.
I want you people effected by this to know your government thinks the work you do is less important than sending a check to a welfare rat or 'pensioner' at the Europeans would say. That SS check to someone who didn't earn it is more important than reforming spending or whats mandated to Congress in 1-8. I firmly believe stopping the acquisition of debt, at this point, is more important than almost any DOD contractor job, and while I'd rather see the welfare checks get stopped before you're earned paycheck if this is how it has to happen then so be it. It's not just YOU that is getting hurt. While the private sector is facing the biggest monthly drop in income in 2 decades SS recipients got a COLA raise this year.
In closing...I want people to learn about all these economic theories, and I want people to think about the deeper meaning behind people say what they do. Almost never will a politician make a statement that doesn't have a dual meaning. Usually the most obvious is directed at idiots, and secondary meaning is their true intent only apparent to those who know the code words, understand various ideology, and can interpret their carefully crafted words. Almost every political speech is directed at the lowest common denominator.