View Full Version : The Top 1% Will Pay 30 Percent Of The Nation's Federal Taxes In 2013
And worse yet, is that the top 20%, which includes the top 1%, will pay nearly 72%!
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/03/taxes-on-the-rich_n_2801206.html?utm_hp_ref=business
How much households at different income levels will pay in federal income, payroll, corporate and estate taxes for 2013:
Bottom 20 percent
Average income: $10,552.
Average tax bill: -$284.
Average tax rate: -2.7 percent.
Share of federal tax burden: -0.4 percent.
Middle 20 percent
Average income: $46,562.
Average tax bill: $6,436.
Average tax rate: 13.8 percent.
Share of federal tax burden: 8.6 percent.
Top 20 percent
Average income: $204,490.
Average tax bill: $55,533.
Average tax rate: 27.2 percent.
Share of federal tax burden: 71.8 percent.
Top 1 percent
Average income: $1.4 million.
Average tax bill: $514,144.
Average tax rate: 35.5 percent.
Share of federal tax burden: 30.2 percent.
Note: The average family in the bottom 20 percent of households pays no federal taxes. Instead, many families in this group get payments from the federal government by claiming more in credits than they owe in taxes, giving them a negative tax rate.
Source: Tax Policy Center
And worse yet, is that the top 20%, which includes the top 1%, will pay nearly 72%!
***************************
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/03/taxes-on-the-rich_n_2801206.html?utm_hp_ref=business
How much households at different income levels will pay in federal income, payroll, corporate and estate taxes for 2013:
Bottom 20 percent
Average income: $10,552.
Average tax bill: -$284.
Average tax rate: -2.7 percent.
Share of federal tax burden: -0.4 percent.
Middle 20 percent
Average income: $46,562.
Average tax bill: $6,436.
Average tax rate: 13.8 percent.
Share of federal tax burden: 8.6 percent.
Top 20 percent
Average income: $204,490.
Average tax bill: $55,533.
Average tax rate: 27.2 percent.
Share of federal tax burden: 71.8 percent.
Top 1 percent
Average income: $1.4 million.
Average tax bill: $514,144.
Average tax rate: 35.5 percent.
Share of federal tax burden: 30.2 percent.
Note: The average family in the bottom 20 percent of households pays no federal taxes. Instead, many families in this group get payments from the federal government by claiming more in credits than they owe in taxes, giving them a negative tax rate.
Source: Tax Policy Center
Does anyone else get 110.2% of federal tax burden, or do I suck at addition?
And if the top 20 includes the top 1%, where does the last 20% of federal tax burden come from? The remaining 40% of America that's missing?
This is not the picture the White House is painting. Don't confuse the liberals with facts.
If you paid nothing in, you should get nothing from the IRS. That would be a good start to balancing the budget.
thopkins22
03-03-13, 14:38
Does anyone else get 110.2% of federal tax burden, or do I suck at addition?
And if the top 20 includes the top 1%, where does the last 20% of federal tax burden come from? Companies?
Your arithmetic is correct.
Does anyone else get 110.2% of federal tax burden, or do I suck at addition?
And if the top 20 includes the top 1%, where does the last 20% of federal tax burden come from? The remaining 40% of America that's missing?
Your arithmetic is correct.
Neither of your math is correct.
Middle 20%....that means there are 40% above and 40% below.
The numbers won't add up to 100% the way they are presented.
thopkins22
03-03-13, 14:55
Neither of your math is correct.
Middle 20%....that means there are 40% above and 40% below.
The numbers won't add up to 100% the way they are presented.
But he added the numbers that were presented correctly. ;)
Neither of your math is correct.
Middle 20%....that means there are 40% above and 40% below.
The numbers won't add up to 100% the way they are presented.
I agree with your interpretation of the data. Does this mean the other 40% of U.S. households pay nothing?
Good catch on the math. I didn't try to total it and see that I should have.
If you add each category repoted in the article you come up with:
-0.4%
8.6%
71.8%
30.2%
110.2% if the 1% group is by itself, or 80% if the top 1% is already in the top 20%
And there is only 60%, or 61% depending on how you count the top 1% of tax return filers in the report. The missing 40%????
NeoNeanderthal
03-03-13, 17:19
I'm in the bottom 20% and I pay no state income tax (NH) but pay WAY more in medicare/ss than I do in federal income tax.
PA PATRIOT
03-03-13, 17:36
This is not the picture the White House is painting. Don't confuse the liberals with facts.
If you paid nothing in, you should get nothing from the IRS. That would be a good start to balancing the budget.
Low income families who have a zero tax liability receive two tax credits (Earned Income Tax Credit & Additional Child Tax Credit) which can give them a credit return plus a full return of any Federal tax they paid.
Depending in the number of kids lets say (2)two the EIC credit would be $5200.00 and the ACT Credit of $1800.00 for a credit refund of $7000.00 plus every penny in Federal tax you paid in returned.
I'm in the bottom 20% and I pay no state income tax (NH) but pay WAY more in medicare/ss than I do in federal income tax.
So does everyone else. You simply don't pay one of the three. And people who pay NO income tax certainly shouldn't get money back.
This is also why I'm in favor of replacing income tax with a national sales tax. When the economy is good people spend more and the government can have more money to work with and EVERYONE pays their fair share.
Top one percent is included in top twenty. Second and fourth quintiles are simply not reported in this article; only top, middle and bottom.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Top one percent is included in top twenty. Second and fourth quintiles are simply not reported in this article; only top, middle and bottom.
Makes sense, thanks.
Magic_Salad0892
03-03-13, 18:47
Wow. Belmont was right.
Be sure to fall into class warfare as presented by the media at large.
Demonize the 1% paying the majority of taxburden.
What would happen if 1% simply left. Tired of shouldering more than a fair share. They certainly have the means to do so.
GeorgiaBoy
03-03-13, 19:48
I'm sure the math is extremely complicated, but I wonder how the "share of tax burden" would look if a flat tax of, lets say 15%, was calculated?
thopkins22
03-03-13, 19:52
I'm sure the math is extremely complicated, but I wonder how the "share of tax burden" would look if a flat tax of, lets say 15%, was calculated?
Quite likely very similar, except you've created an avenue for people to actually accrue wealth should they choose to be frugal. Particularly if you allow exemptions on groceries and maybe a few other staples.
But you don't actually need a tax that's anywhere near that high. I saw a peer reviewed study that showed a 1% sales tax with no exemptions whatsoever including on financial services and products would gain the government the same amount of income as they had in 1999.
ETA: I thought you were talking about a fair tax...such as a national sales tax. A flat tax would be a step in the right direction though. The top 1/4 of the country would still hold the vast majority of the burden though.
FlyingHunter
03-03-13, 19:55
Margaret Thatcher once said that 'The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money'!
That and our "entitlement class" seems to be growing faster than any other "class" in our country, well, except perhaps for the federal leviathan.
I'm sure the math is extremely complicated, but I wonder how the "share of tax burden" would look if a flat tax of, lets say 15%, was calculated?
I would agree to 15% Federal tax for everyone. If you earn $100, you pay $15 tax. If you earn $100,000,000, you pay $15,000,000 tax. No deductions and no refunds if you did not pay anything into the system. It would go a long way to balancing the budget and most working people would think it was fair.
Belmont31R
03-03-13, 21:21
We have had this debate with members on this site who think every rich person is like Warren Buffet who pays 'less of a percent of their income than his secretary'. The effective rate for the top tiers is much higher than any other income group.
It's also funny Obama is beating the new 'well off and well connected' mantra as if wealthy people are not shouldering the biggest tax burden already. But can't let facts get in the way of a good ole progressive argument. Just like 'paying their fair share'...they pay almost all the taxes from individuals!
SeriousStudent
03-03-13, 21:47
Be sure to fall into class warfare as presented by the media at large.
Demonize the 1% paying the majority of taxburden.
What would happen if 1% simply left. Tired of shouldering more than a fair share. They certainly have the means to do so.
And this is exactly what is happening in France right now.
Be sure to fall into class warfare as presented by the media at large.
Demonize the 1% paying the majority of taxburden.
What would happen if 1% simply left. Tired of shouldering more than a fair share. They certainly have the means to do so.
We'd really miss John Galt.
brickboy240
03-04-13, 11:31
Some people are just not good at math. Others are also intellectually lazy and believe whatever big media spews out for them and never researches the stats.
Warren Buffet pays CAPITAL GAINS tax while his secretary pays INCOME TAX. Income tax IS a higher percentage than cap gains tax.
But there is no way in hell that Buffet's secretary is paying more in dollar amount, than her boss. Dollar-wise...Buffet is paying tons more...probably more than the secretary makes in five years.
Buffet might be paying a lower percentage on cap gains tax NOW, but the money he used to make the cap gains was once taxed as INCOME. Then....it is being taxed AGAIN on the cap gains.
So...when you look at the numbers...guess what...Buffett is NOT skating on his tax bill while the secretary gets shafted.
He is being taxed at a lower rate...but on money that was once taxed as INCOME and is now being taxed again at CAP GAINS rates.
However...big media..in it's race to villify rich people and stir the class warrior pot...reports that Buffet pays less taxes than his poor ol' secretary. A secretary that makes a shade over 300 grand a year..mind you.
What garbage. If any of you believe the big media BS on Buffet and his secretary you are an economic retard!
-brickboy240
thopkins22
03-04-13, 11:52
However...big media..in it's race to villify rich people and stir the class warrior pot...reports that Buffet pays less taxes than his poor ol' secretary. A secretary that makes a shade over 300 grand a year..mind you.
Yep. It's a function of how and when his money is earned/taxed(not via a large salary,) and the fact that she is in the highest tax bracket paying 33%.
His actual salary very likely is in one of the lower brackets.
Buffet might be paying a lower percentage on cap gains tax NOW, but the money he used to make the cap gains was once taxed as INCOME. Then....it is being taxed AGAIN on the cap gains.
I don't disagree with your general premise, but in your statemente quoted above it is important to remember that each bucket of money was only taxed once:
Income used to make investment was taxed.
Cap gain by defination does not tax the original investment money again, it only taxes the gain on the investment, and at a lower rate than ordinary income.
So each dollar in that whole pie is only taxed once at the federal level.
But a good example of double taxation on the exact same dollars is the estate tax. If you are a great saver and make and save a lot of money you could have an estate tax problem. You pay ordinary income tax on the money you earn. When you then save or invest that money, you will pay ordinary income tax on the interest, or capital gains tax on the gain, but not on the original investment amount. But when you die, if you have accumulated enough wealth, the feds and some states levy an estate tax which does tax the same money a second time and is effectively a tax on your net worth, not on your income, at a 40% rate. Yep, you paid your income taxes your whole like and when you die Uncle Sugar takes 40% of the value of your net worth above a certain amount.
PS: And it is unlikely the secretary, bless her heart, will ever have an estate tax problem, but it is for sure that Warren does, which is why he needs good accountants and lawyers.
Alaskapopo
03-04-13, 13:04
And worse yet, is that the top 20%, which includes the top 1%, will pay nearly 72%!
***************************
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/03/taxes-on-the-rich_n_2801206.html?utm_hp_ref=business
How much households at different income levels will pay in federal income, payroll, corporate and estate taxes for 2013:
Bottom 20 percent
Average income: $10,552.
Average tax bill: -$284.
Average tax rate: -2.7 percent.
Share of federal tax burden: -0.4 percent.
Middle 20 percent
Average income: $46,562.
Average tax bill: $6,436.
Average tax rate: 13.8 percent.
Share of federal tax burden: 8.6 percent.
Top 20 percent
Average income: $204,490.
Average tax bill: $55,533.
Average tax rate: 27.2 percent.
Share of federal tax burden: 71.8 percent.
Top 1 percent
Average income: $1.4 million.
Average tax bill: $514,144.
Average tax rate: 35.5 percent.
Share of federal tax burden: 30.2 percent.
Note: The average family in the bottom 20 percent of households pays no federal taxes. Instead, many families in this group get payments from the federal government by claiming more in credits than they owe in taxes, giving them a negative tax rate.
Source: Tax Policy Center
The top 1% has 99% of the wealth so no I am not crying for them. However I am not for any further tax increases until there are some spending cuts. We need to do both to balance the budget.
Pat
brickboy240
03-04-13, 13:12
Yeah but it is the 99% that uses most of the "free" govt. services.
(surprise...they are not really "free")
Shouldn't more of the 99% be forced to pay up?
Hey...they want all of this free healthcare and other entitlements....they need to help PAY for it. That is only fair.
Actually, the ONLY "fair" solution to the tax problem is everyone pays the same percentage of their income in taxes and nobody gets any deductions at all. That is the only true fair solution when you get down to it.
Time to stop using the income tax system as a punishment and rewards device.
-brickboy240
....of the wealth....
There is no "the wealth". A poor person does not have one less dollar because a rich person has it. The monetary supply is ever changing.
If a poor person does not want to be poor any longer, he can strive to achieve more, make more...
People continue to discuss money like there is some finite supply and if the rich people hold $1,000,000,000 then that means 1B people go without an extra dollar. It doesn't work that way, never has, and never will.
thopkins22
03-04-13, 13:19
There is no "the wealth". A poor person does not have one less dollar because a rich person has it. The monetary supply is ever changing.
If a poor person does not want to be poor any longer, he can strive to achieve more, make more...
People continue to discuss money like there is some finite supply and if the rich people hold $1,000,000,000 then that means 1B people go without an extra dollar. It doesn't work that way, never has, and never will.
Excellent post. Despite what the Wall Street movies show us, money is NOT a zero sum game. You don't have less because someone else has more. Even if the monetary supply was fixed, should there be more production or similar, then your money would be worth more.
Alaskapopo
03-04-13, 13:21
Yeah but it is the 99% that uses most of the "free" govt. services.
(surprise...they are not really "free")
Shouldn't more of the 99% be forced to pay up?
Hey...they want all of this free healthcare and other entitlements....they need to help PAY for it. That is only fair.
Actually, the ONLY "fair" solution to the tax problem is everyone pays the same percentage of their income in taxes and nobody gets any deductions at all. That is the only true fair solution when you get down to it.
Time to stop using the income tax system as a punishment and rewards device.
-brickboy240
I am totally for a flat tax with no loopholes so everyone from rich to the poor pays the same percentage of their income. But I doubt we will see this system anytime soon.
Pat
thopkins22
03-04-13, 13:26
I am totally for a flat tax with no loopholes so everyone from rich to the poor pays the same percentage of their income. But I doubt we will see this system anytime soon.
Pat
Pat I have an idea for you. You should start combining your first comment on a subject, and what will soon follow it as the more easily interpreted as a reasonable response to someone who had an issue with it.
Most of us aren't "weeping" for the super rich, but we don't want to punish them more than the rest of us. They should not be vilified, as someone who earns $1M just paid 336,900 dollars in taxes. Who cares if they "feel it." That's more than fair in my opinion.
So by including the statement that a flat tax would be acceptable, I think a lot more of us would see where you're coming from earlier in the conversation. Just a thought, and certainly one that I could use to tell myself from time to time as well.
brickboy240
03-04-13, 13:26
You will never see this because this puts the power in the people's hands and takes it away from big govt.
This is the last thing DC wants and they actually enjoy the fact that our tax code is not even-handed and that it is confusing and hard to understand.
I am totally for a flat tax with no loopholes so everyone from rich to the poor pays the same percentage of their income. But I doubt we will see this system anytime soon.
Pat
A flat (fair) tax will never happen. The socialist bastards running the country need the taxpayers money to buy votes from non-taxpayers to stay in office.
I say we go to a strictly user tax system and eliminate all other taxes. If you don't want to pay as much in taxes as the next guy, don't buy as much. It's the only fair way to do it.
FlyingHunter
03-04-13, 21:42
Sadly, it's about wealth redistribution and control. Fairness has nothing to do to it.
brickboy240
03-05-13, 11:18
A flat tax or something that resembles Neal Boortz's "Fair Tax" will never see the light of day in America.
These solutions put the power in the hands of the people and does away with a tax code that is used as a punishment and rewards system....and the DC insiders will NEVER let go of this....ever.
-brickboy240
MountainRaven
03-05-13, 12:50
I'm gonna deploy this here and let y'all pick it apart:
Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en&gl=US&client=mv-google&v=QPKKQnijnsM&nomobile=1).
To sum up: The 'top 1%' controls 40% of our country's wealth (the bottom 70% controls 7% of it). They make 24% of all income in this country. And they control half of all the investments in this country (maybe the reason why the stock market does well while we all languish in a 'jobless recovery' is because the people who benefit from it doing well don't really have anything to lose from the 'recovery' being jobless).
Considering that, I do not think it is unfair to ask the top 1% to pay ~30% of total tax revenue.
I'm frankly more disturbed that the bottom 20% make, on average, less than $11,000 a year. In a country where you virtually need a car, they couldn't afford a new car if they didn't spend a dime for a year.
Alaskapopo
03-05-13, 13:28
A flat tax or something that resembles Neal Boortz's "Fair Tax" will never see the light of day in America.
These solutions put the power in the hands of the people and does away with a tax code that is used as a punishment and rewards system....and the DC insiders will NEVER let go of this....ever.
-brickboy240
I know we disagree on some things but I will agree that no new taxes at this point we need to focus on spending cuts. We gave them new taxes back in January.
Pat
brickboy240
03-05-13, 14:08
...and this "sequester" and the big media crying over this is laughable.
We are broke and the cuts actually need to be much deeper.
Yes, some will lose their jobs and there will be other inconveniences.
Nobody should expect the "recovery" from decades of run-away spending and debt to be pain-free.
Time to pay the piper...tighten up and maybe the pain endured will convince many that govt needs to live within its means like the rest of us.
-brickboy240
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