View Full Version : Smith & Wesson 5.7?
WickedWillis
03-04-13, 00:14
I searched this forum but did not find what I was looking for. A friend and I went down to our local gun shop recently to visit with an S&W sales rep that was scheduled to be in. We got on the topic of the FN 5.7, and to both of our shock, the rep told us they are actively making a handgun chambered in 5.7. He also told me it would retail at about $600, and they have signed a deal with a company to make the casings and bullets for them, since he said FN owns those rights. So what do you guys think? I think the 5.7 is a pretty neat round, but not for how spendy the gun is through FN. interesting to see how this turns out.
S&W will make what they think will sell but the question is what purpose would it serve?
The 5.7 round was designed for use in the P90 PDW/SMG with penetration of armor as it's prmary goal. The FN 5.7 handgun was developed to complimment the P90.
One of our sister agencies had P90s for a time. Fun to shoot but it's basically a .22 mag.
The P90 is a reliable weapon and easy to shoot well but real world results with the 5.7 round have been VERY disappointing. See Doc Roberts info here.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913
I find this very hard to believe.
S&W cannot get enough of their high demand handguns into the marketplace. FN cannot give away their 5.7 pistols; there just isn't any demand for their over-sized so-so performing ".22 mag".
That S&W would divert resources to make a 5.7mm defies all business logic and common sense, why make a gun no one wants when you aren't making enough of the guns they do want?
I would not hold my breath to actually see a S&W 5.7mm pistol, ever.
TriviaMonster
03-04-13, 18:01
A handgun chambered in 5.7 would be fun for plinking or small varmint stuff but that's about it.
Reloading can be a little tricky so it isn't a round that makes too much sense to me at least. Its fun but not worth the drawbacks.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
WickedWillis
03-04-13, 18:06
FN cannot give away their pistols because they are crazy overpriced. They could make a quality handgun and turn business away from the POS Keltec PMR30. Like I said before, I am just explaining what a REP from Smith told me at Sharp shooting indoor range. Just wanted to find out if anyone else had heard of this happening. Thanks.
I find this very hard to believe.
S&W cannot get enough of their high demand handguns into the marketplace. FN cannot give away their 5.7 pistols; there just isn't any demand for their over-sized so-so performing ".22 mag".
That S&W would divert resources to make a 5.7mm defies all business logic and common sense, why make a gun no one wants when you aren't making enough of the guns they do want?
I would not hold my breath to actually see a S&W 5.7mm pistol, ever.
nobody knows
03-04-13, 18:30
I agree that would be a bad move for smith, but look at what Sig and glock are doing/have done. And it doesn't seem so fare fetched.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FaCV5qZajHU/S7_GznUOUmI/AAAAAAAAAOg/CEbrXOKY09I/s1600/kel_tec_pmr_30_2-tfb.jpg
I agree that would be a bad move for smith, but look at what Sig and glock are doing/have done. And it doesn't seem so fare fetched.
What is your Glock example? .45 GAP?
wesshipman
03-04-13, 19:04
I know of a department where half of Officers carry the Five-Seven (including probably everyone on their SWAT Team).
I would love to own one, just currently cant spend that kind of $$$, and it's not even authorized by my department for off-duty carry.
citizensoldier16
03-04-13, 20:26
I know of a department where half of Officers carry the Five-Seven (including probably everyone on their SWAT Team).
I would love to own one, just currently cant spend that kind of $$$, and it's not even authorized by my department for off-duty carry.
My father sold one about a year and a half ago for less than $1k. I'll bet he's wishing he held on to it until now...
no thanks. that niche is already filled.
RearwardAssist
03-04-13, 20:36
I find this very hard to believe.
S&W cannot get enough of their high demand handguns into the marketplace. FN cannot give away their 5.7 pistols; there just isn't any demand for their over-sized so-so performing ".22 mag".
That S&W would divert resources to make a 5.7mm defies all business logic and common sense, why make a gun no one wants when you aren't making enough of the guns they do want?
I would not hold my breath to actually see a S&W 5.7mm pistol, ever.
I would have to disagree with the bolded part in my area there are plenty of uniformed people lining up to buy these. They are going for over msrp in the secondary market prior to Sandy Hook. I agree I think the thing is a turd but I could say that about a lot of platforms/caliber options. That is not to say that I believe S&W will come out with this pistol. I just think your assessment is based on informed buyers, which all buyers are not.
crusader377
03-04-13, 21:39
Why bother with the 5.7. S&W should use the resources from that project to increase M&P shield 9 production or for additional M&P 15s.
I would have to disagree with the bolded part in my area there are plenty of uniformed people lining up to buy these. They are going for over msrp in the secondary market prior to Sandy Hook. I agree I think the thing is a turd but I could say that about a lot of platforms/caliber options. That is not to say that I believe S&W will come out with this pistol. I just think your assessment is based on informed buyers, which all buyers are not.
"Uniformed", or uninformed? I stay away from the retail gun shops, limiting myself to a couple of LE pro shops, where I have just seen the FNs sit on the shelf. Being able to get above MSRP before the hysteria is no small feat, God knows what they are fetching now. As for 5.7; no use for it for me, personally, nothing to do with FN, it's all the caliber.
RearwardAssist
03-04-13, 21:52
Why bother with the 5.7. S&W should use the resources from that project to increase M&P shield 9 production or for additional M&P 15s.
They probably have R&D departments and manufacturing departments as separate entities, so by not doing any further R&D would not increase the production on another product.
RearwardAssist
03-04-13, 21:56
"Uniformed", or uninformed? I stay away from the retail gun shops, limiting myself to a couple of LE pro shops, where I have just seen the FNs sit on the shelf. Being able to get above MSRP before the hysteria is no small feat, God knows what they are fetching now. As for 5.7; no use for it for me, personally, nothing to do with FN, it's all the caliber.
Sorry for the typo uninformed* and I agree with you 100% a buddy of mine bought one an I about laughed at him when he was trying to explain how great it was and its going to be the next biggest thing. That being said I still see the civilian demand high in my area.
IMO the only thing that was cool about the 57 was that the SG1 crew used it. To think that any maker would divert ANY resources away from useful guns into manufacturing something in that caliber would be idiotic.
The P90, in the hands of someone who would otherwise only carry a handgun, was the only role for the platform. Even then, you can give someone a 10.5 sbr.
Five_Point_Five_Six
03-05-13, 06:39
S&W should fix the accuracy issues with the full size M&P 9's before coming out with another fudd gun in a niche caliber.
Littlelebowski
03-05-13, 07:02
I know of a department where half of Officers carry the Five-Seven (including probably everyone on their SWAT Team).
I would love to own one, just currently cant spend that kind of $$$, and it's not even authorized by my department for off-duty carry.
Let me guess, Cooder County SWAT?
nobody knows
03-05-13, 08:35
What is your Glock example? .45 GAP?
The 45gap and the new 30s granted it's nowhere near as bad as the stuff Sig is doing,but still not there greatest accomplishment.
What is your Glock example? .45 GAP?
The 45gap and the new 30s granted it's nowhere near as bad as the stuff Sig is doing,but still not there greatest accomplishment.
And ignoring the market demand for a single stack 9mm and .40S&W....
I think the 30S is a good idea as it is supposed to be a little lighter than the regular 30, but I don't see a reason to continue making the regular 30 along side of it.
I never saw much point to the 5.7 round as most rifle rounds already do a good job of penatrating most body armor.
thopkins22
03-05-13, 09:29
That S&W would divert resources to make a 5.7mm defies all business logic and common sense, why make a gun no one wants when you aren't making enough of the guns they do want?
The folly is believing that nobody wants it. Nobody here wanted a Taurus Judge, nor did we think S&W should make a version. They did and it sells like hot-cakes.
Defying business logic and common sense is an all too common theme in the gun business.
I agree that would be a bad move for smith, but look at what Sig and glock are doing/have done. And it doesn't seem so fare fetched.
Toss COLT in there too with their recent pursuit of the ARFtard market! Why do retards run gun companies???
Toss COLT in there too with their recent pursuit of the ARFtard market! Why do retards run gun companies???
Because many buyers are retards!
arcticlightfighter
03-05-13, 19:10
How about a 10mm M&P in stead of the 5.7. I like the 5.7 less than I do the 10mm.
Im sure DocGKR could chime in on the merits of the 5.7.
Its fun to shoot out of a select fire P90 and I personally wouldnt want to be shot with it, but there is better out there.
threeheadeddog
03-05-13, 19:37
ahem S&W governer ahem... seems they are quite capable of stupid
Let me guess, Cooder County SWAT?
baahahahaha
If this information is true, and that's a big if, it makes perfect business sense.
While I may be a noob here, business and firearm speaking it makes perfect sense. Most people simply aren't serious users, and they think, "...oooohhh Secret Service Operator destroys all that oppose them with 5.7! Break yoself biatch!". These guns then do not stay on the shelves.
These manufactureres are still businesses and their bottom line is to maximize profit at all times. It's just the way it is.
I belong to a few fn centered forums since I have a scar17 and some fn pistols, and used to have a fiveseven and a ps90 (which I have sold both).
If SW was actually doing this I'd think I'd have read about it on one of these forums and I have not.
Because many buyers are retards!
That really is where the money is. Hi Point, KelTec, etc. :rolleyes:
Calling the 5.7 a .22 mag is showing your bias. The pistol is center fire not rim fire for one.
It also appears to have worked as intended and very effectively at Fort Hood. There are 13 souls (RIP) that would argue it being ineffective as well as several wounded.
But what do I know, I'm just one of the "uninformed" buyers who happens to like the pistol, who incidentally could sell it for double its retail value right now if he were willing to sell his "uninformed" purchase.
S&W wouldn't make it if they didn't think it would sell. I for one welcome their entry into the market as it may drive down ammo prices and increase its availability.
Edited to add I am apparently a "retard" as well. But I often consider the source when those phrases are tossed around on a public forum.
Magic_Salad0892
03-07-13, 02:34
Calling the 5.7 a .22 mag is showing your bias. The pistol is center fire not rim fire for one.
Have you seen DocGKR's ballistic testing on this round?
Even he compared it to a .22 magnum, if I recall correctly.
Calling the 5.7 a .22 mag is showing your bias. The pistol is center fire not rim fire for one.
It also appears to have worked as intended and very effectively at Fort Hood. There are 13 souls (RIP) that would argue it being ineffective as well as several wounded.
But what do I know, I'm just one of the "uninformed" buyers who happens to like the pistol, who incidentally could sell it for double its retail value right now if he were willing to sell his "uninformed" purchase.
S&W wouldn't make it if they didn't think it would sell. I for one welcome their entry into the market as it may drive down ammo prices and increase its availability.
Edited to add I am apparently a "retard" as well. But I often consider the source when those phrases are tossed around on a public forum.
There's a difference between the ability to kill and the ability to stop a threat. It's known that .22lr kills a lot of people. That doesnt make it a combat effective round, just that if you put a hole or two into someone, that person will eventually die without medical care. Eventually. That person will also likely be able to fight back for the many minutes it takes to bleed out, depending on where the hit was.
If you hunt, you know that shooting a deer in the ass will probably kill it. So then why would you need a lung/heart shot? Because you'll have to chase that deer for miles before it dies vs knocking it down immediately.
At m4c, we're concerned with quickly rendering a threat combat ineffective. The fact that the person might die at some future hour doesn't matter as much as stopping him from shooting back right now. It turns out the 5.7 and whatever the mp7 uses are not good rounds for that unless you put a LOT of bullets into someone. Which is what the mp7 and p90 are designed to do... On full auto. But in a semi auto only gun? Pretty pointless except as a novelty.
WickedWillis
03-07-13, 02:49
I put a magazine through one I rented, that is my only experience with the found and I thought it was a lot of fun and fairly accurate. I think it's an enjoyable weapon, and I'd love to see S&W get into the market. Do I know if its "tactical" or "combat effective" enough? No. For just a target pistol, or varmint pistol it would be enjoyable.
I put a magazine through one I rented, that is my only experience with the found and I thought it was a lot of fun and fairly accurate. I think it's an enjoyable weapon, and I'd love to see S&W get into the market. Do I know if its "tactical" or "combat effective" enough? No. For just a target pistol, or varmint pistol it would be enjoyable.
I put a mag through a f/a p90. It was extremely controllable on f/a. In fact, I would say it's fairly effective at short ranges if you can put a large amount of rounds into each threat. But I'd rather have a 10.5" 5.56mm AR. It's just better. Also, I can't buy a post 86 mg and 5.7 is as expensive as 5.56.
Have you seen DocGKR's ballistic testing on this round?
Even he compared it to a .22 magnum, if I recall correctly.
18" .22 mag rifle...I know, those silly little details....I'm not going to argue the rounds effectiveness. I don't feel under gunned with 20 rounds of light recoiling, accurate ammunition that meets FBI penetration standards. Shot placement is what counts and there are more than a couple of effective five seven rounds on the market.
If Smith makes one, then it would be for an anticipated .gov contract. With all the craziness, this definitely does not make good business sense for civvie sales.
It may not be the "best" round, especially in regards to terminal ballistics. There are some benefits especially with the restricted ammo. The ability to penetrate soft armor, potentially not over penetrate walls and low recoil.
I wonder if a barrel swap would make it possible to shoot 4.6, .22 WMR, or .22LR.
Littlelebowski
03-07-13, 12:44
18" .22 mag rifle...I know, those silly little details....I'm not going to argue the rounds effectiveness. I don't feel under gunned with 20 rounds of light recoiling, accurate ammunition that meets FBI penetration standards. Shot placement is what counts and there are more than a couple of effective five seven rounds on the market.
You sure told us!
You sure told us!
Naw, just stated an opinion. Folks are free to have theirs as well. There are folks who don't think 9mm is enough. It isn't worth trying to change people's minds.
It is just bothersome when you see words like uninformed and retard thrown around with impunity. Very few things in life are absolute.
Five_Point_Five_Six
03-07-13, 18:56
Very few things in life are absolute.
Absolutely.
anything coming out in 5.7 in the next year will fail and die out very fast... unless someone other than fn starts making brass that is. The 5.7 ammo shortage is by far the worst out of all types of ammo right now. 2$ a round is common place. Ammo has been next to none for well over a year.
I feel bad for anyone who buys any 5.7 gun in the present time... as they wont be shooting it.
note : i just noticed it said the rep said they signed a deal w a company to make brass since fn holds the license. sodid they license from fn or are they re designing the casing? for some reason i dont see FN selling rights to one of their competitors, especially since there is big money involved. we shall have to see.
S&W doesn't always make firearms I like, but when they do.....I buy one. Like my S&W revolvers. If they make one then maybe the price of 5.7 comes down. I won't be buying a 5.7 of any kind but I do trust S&W to run their company, I think they leaned their lesson during the AWB era.
"S&W doesn't always make firearms I like, but when they do.....I buy one."
This makes you the most interesting man in the world...
S&W should take the team working on this silly 5.7 gun and put them on a production line. I can't believe any gun company is wasting resources on something like this right now.
They're R&D? Fine, put them on the M&P lockup issue. For F's sake.
S&W should take the team working on this silly 5.7 gun and put them on a production line. I can't believe any gun company is wasting resources on something like this right now.
They're R&D? Fine, put them on the M&P lockup issue. For F's sake.
S&W is in the business of making money, not guns. Be happy they make reasonable quality guns at less than Wilson prices instead of going pants-on-head like Sig.
As to the lockup issue, there isn't one. Sure, I had one of the 9mms that would shoot less accurately than my Kahr. Doesn't matter. It met S&W's specifications for acceptable accuracy.
If you want a company to spend huge sacks of cash to fix a problem a sliver of their customers will even notice, you're going to be disappointed.
S&W should take the team working on this silly 5.7 gun and put them on a production line. I can't believe any gun company is wasting resources on something like this right now.
They're R&D? Fine, put them on the M&P lockup issue. For F's sake.
Other than, "a guy told a guy, who told me" nonsense from another forum there is absolutely no indication that S&W is making, planning on making, or made a 5.7 pistol. Seeing where the demand has been for their products and their spot-on market analysis and development/production of the Shield, I'd say they have other priorities. Don't hold your breathe waiting to see one of these.
This rumor popped up a year or so ago. Product is no where to be seen. We'll see...
The 5.7 ammo shortage is by far the worst out of all types of ammo right now. 2$ a round is common place. Ammo has been next to none for well over a year. I feel bad for anyone who buys any 5.7 gun in the present time... as they wont be shooting it.
I wish people would just not post when they don't have a friggin' clue. You're wrong on all counts.
I picked up two boxes to supplement my supply weekend before last and it wasn't FN manufactured ammo.
I could have picked up more, had I needed it, last weekend, at the same store and it still was roughly 50 cents per round.
Go figure.
I wish people would just not post when they don't have a friggin' clue. You're wrong on all counts.
I picked up two boxes to supplement my supply weekend before last and it wasn't FN manufactured ammo.
I could have picked up more, had I needed it, last weekend, at the same store and it still was roughly 50 cents per round.
Go figure.
some lgs"s of course still have stock. have you looked online? the majority of the country doesnt have squat. I picked up 10 boxes about a month ago for 20 a box, does that mean its everywhere for that?
also what, you paid 25$ for ae ammo? only 5.7 ammo on the market is ae and fnh. ae uses fnh brass. ae ammo should be about 15 to 20 a box tops imo.
Funny how you say some people dont have a friggin clue... when those some people have been using 5.7 rounds for quite some time. Just remember, just because you found something locally, doesnt mean it will be local to everyone. same thing for ars and mags during the panic. some shops had plenty of mags, while the majority of the country were way past out of stock.
I carry an FN Five-Seven daily and most people that think it is the same as a .22 Mag have never been around one and haven't looked into them much. The secret service has been using them for years to protect the president and being that they could carry about any handgun they want but choose that one says something. I shoot several different loads that are right at 2600fps from the pistol and some penetrate big time, some frag pretty quick, and the Trident T6 breaks into 4 pieces of brass and just tears shit up. I'd take my 20 rounds of 5.7x28mm over any 9mm, .40, or .45 w/ 7-15 rounds. Plus no recoil for quick follow up shots, no malfunctions out of my first one after over 6k rounds. I doubt S&W is making a pistol in 5.7x28mm, but FN just came out with the Five-Seven Mk II that is hardly any different but probably cost $4000. I have a Glock 29 in 10mm w/ a 9x25 Dillon barrel also and a Glock 30 w/ a .460 Rowland that I like too, and I still love .45's and all the others, but when I carry it's one of those 3. I'll try to get some video's of a few dif rounds of 5.7x28mm into ballistic gelatin and some .22 Mag too. It's like comparing a .243 to a .338 lapua =).
The secret service has been using them for years to protect the president and being that they could carry about any handgun they want but choose ........
Really?
alvincullumyork
04-03-13, 00:17
I carry an FN Five-Seven daily and most people that think it is the same as a .22 Mag have never been around one and haven't looked into them much. The secret service has been using them for years to protect the president and being that they could carry about any handgun they want but choose that one says something. I shoot several different loads that are right at 2600fps from the pistol and some penetrate big time, some frag pretty quick, and the Trident T6 breaks into 4 pieces of brass and just tears shit up. I'd take my 20 rounds of 5.7x28mm over any 9mm, .40, or .45 w/ 7-15 rounds. Plus no recoil for quick follow up shots, no malfunctions out of my first one after over 6k rounds. I doubt S&W is making a pistol in 5.7x28mm, but FN just came out with the Five-Seven Mk II that is hardly any different but probably cost $4000. I have a Glock 29 in 10mm w/ a 9x25 Dillon barrel also and a Glock 30 w/ a .460 Rowland that I like too, and I still love .45's and all the others, but when I carry it's one of those 3. I'll try to get some video's of a few dif rounds of 5.7x28mm into ballistic gelatin and some .22 Mag too. It's like comparing a .243 to a .338 lapua =).
Most people in the know would disagree.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913
I'm just opening my pie hole as I do not know jackshit about the 5.7 but that never stopped me before. Isn't it's primary role as a PDW round? Wound potential over actual lethality?
I was thinking the same thing... Last SS dude I talked to said they only used the P90s no 5.7 pistols were used just the old trusty .357 sig p229
Really?
I carry an FN Five-Seven daily and most people that think it is the same as a .22 Mag have never been around one and haven't looked into them much. The secret service has been using them for years to protect the president and being that they could carry about any handgun they want but choose that one says something. I shoot several different loads that are right at 2600fps from the pistol and some penetrate big time, some frag pretty quick, and the Trident T6 breaks into 4 pieces of brass and just tears shit up. I'd take my 20 rounds of 5.7x28mm over any 9mm, .40, or .45 w/ 7-15 rounds. Plus no recoil for quick follow up shots, no malfunctions out of my first one after over 6k rounds. I doubt S&W is making a pistol in 5.7x28mm, but FN just came out with the Five-Seven Mk II that is hardly any different but probably cost $4000. I have a Glock 29 in 10mm w/ a 9x25 Dillon barrel also and a Glock 30 w/ a .460 Rowland that I like too, and I still love .45's and all the others, but when I carry it's one of those 3. I'll try to get some video's of a few dif rounds of 5.7x28mm into ballistic gelatin and some .22 Mag too. It's like comparing a .243 to a .338 lapua =).
Can you back up that SS statement?
I can.
"The Five-seven is currently in service with military and police forces in over 40 nations, such as Canada, France, Greece, India, Poland, Spain, and the United States.[21] In the United States, the Five-seven is in use with numerous law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Secret Service.[14][22] In the years since the pistol's introduction to the civilian market in the United States, it has also become increasingly popular with civilian shooters."
Wikipedia
But what do they know. once they see it's a .22 Mag in disguise they'll be lobbing .45's.
I can.
"The Five-seven is currently in service with military and police forces in over 40 nations, such as Canada, France, Greece, India, Poland, Spain, and the United States.[21] In the United States, the Five-seven is in use with numerous law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Secret Service.[14][22] In the years since the pistol's introduction to the civilian market in the United States, it has also become increasingly popular with civilian shooters."
Wikipedia
But what do they know. once they see it's a .22 Mag in disguise they'll be lobbing .45's.
Wikipedia's sources are 3 and 4 yrs old. Which works with what Doc Roberts was saying, that they tried out 5.7 then ditched it.
Littlelebowski
04-03-13, 08:23
I carry an FN Five-Seven daily and most people that think it is the same as a .22 Mag have never been around one and haven't looked into them much. The secret service has been using them for years to protect the president and being that they could carry about any handgun they want but choose that one says something. I shoot several different loads that are right at 2600fps from the pistol and some penetrate big time, some frag pretty quick, and the Trident T6 breaks into 4 pieces of brass and just tears shit up. I'd take my 20 rounds of 5.7x28mm over any 9mm, .40, or .45 w/ 7-15 rounds. Plus no recoil for quick follow up shots, no malfunctions out of my first one after over 6k rounds. I doubt S&W is making a pistol in 5.7x28mm, but FN just came out with the Five-Seven Mk II that is hardly any different but probably cost $4000. I have a Glock 29 in 10mm w/ a 9x25 Dillon barrel also and a Glock 30 w/ a .460 Rowland that I like too, and I still love .45's and all the others, but when I carry it's one of those 3. I'll try to get some video's of a few dif rounds of 5.7x28mm into ballistic gelatin and some .22 Mag too. It's like comparing a .243 to a .338 lapua =).
What training classes have you taken with this weapon and can you show data regarding your times on popular drills? How is ammo availability nowadays?
Other than, "a guy told a guy, who told me" nonsense from another forum there is absolutely no indication that S&W is making, planning on making, or made a 5.7 pistol. Seeing where the demand has been for their products and their spot-on market analysis and development/production of the Shield, I'd say they have other priorities. Don't hold your breathe waiting to see one of these.
Well, the OP said he heard it directly from a S&W rep. The rep could be wrong, but assuming the OP's not just screwing with us that's better than "a guy told a guy".
Wikipedia's sources are 3 and 4 yrs old. Which works with what Doc Roberts was saying, that they tried out 5.7 then ditched it.
My personal photos of the White House tour entrance, August 2010. That is a Secret Service guard.
The SS has been using for several years... and continues (as of 2010 I can show) to use the P90. Of course there currently aren't any more white house tours...
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/ick-xbox/rifle%20collection/PS-90/DSC00051.jpg
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/ick-xbox/rifle%20collection/PS-90/DSC00050.jpg
Sorry, couldn't zoom in enought to see which round is in the magazine. Pretty sure it is not 22mag, nudge, nudge.
jasonhgross
04-03-13, 12:12
The secret service does not use the 5.7 Even the CAT teams dont. That is from a friend in the SS I have shot with a bunch. The guys at the door you photographed are likely Capitol Police, or at best Uniformed SS (not SS in the real sense). I walk past the White House every other day or so, and never saw a 5.7.
WickedWillis
04-03-13, 12:19
Other than, "a guy told a guy, who told me" nonsense from another forum there is absolutely no indication that S&W is making, planning on making, or made a 5.7 pistol. Seeing where the demand has been for their products and their spot-on market analysis and development/production of the Shield, I'd say they have other priorities. Don't hold your breathe waiting to see one of these.
So in my defense here, I wanted to chat with the S&W rep about the M&P line and shield availability, and we got onto the topic of S&w developing a handgun chambered in 5.7. I was just asking/informing you guys of what I was told by a representative for the company. Could he be lying? Of course, I work in retail and reps "misinform" all of the time to push their products and agenda. And for your info sweetheart this is the only forum I'm on, sorry if I somehow offended you.
S. Galbraith
04-03-13, 13:11
I can.
"The Five-seven is currently in service with military and police forces in over 40 nations, such as Canada, France, Greece, India, Poland, Spain, and the United States.[21] In the United States, the Five-seven is in use with numerous law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Secret Service.[14][22] In the years since the pistol's introduction to the civilian market in the United States, it has also become increasingly popular with civilian shooters."
Wikipedia
But what do they know. once they see it's a .22 Mag in disguise they'll be lobbing .45's.
The British and Germans are using the HK MP7 in small numbers as well. The 4.6x30mm demonstrated better terminal effects than the 5.7mm, due to an earlier yaw cycle with military type armor penetrators. However, even with the improved physical damage, it showed poor performance in Iraq and Afghanistan against unarmored targets. The predominant opinion of those who have actually shot people with any of the small caliber PDW systems is that it requires a saturation of full auto fire to rapidly incapcitate targets. H&K discontinued development of the 4.6mm pistol, because they recognized the need for multiple hits with the small caliber to be effective. Good shot placement is not enough when your target refuses to stand still and stop shooting back at you. Even with domestic law enforcement who use premium soft/hollow point ammunition, they still lack adequate terminal effects:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913
Secret Service actually shoot very few people......same with the Air Marshals which it seems a lot of people like to quote their choice of weaponry to be some sort of great insight on what is effective. I'm more likely to trust the advice of door kickers(SWAT, ATF, DEA), as more OIS are generated by them than the red carpet police.
The secret service does not use the 5.7 Even the CAT teams dont. That is from a friend in the SS I have shot with a bunch. The guys at the door you photographed are likely Capitol Police, or at best Uniformed SS (not SS in the real sense). I walk past the White House every other day or so, and never saw a 5.7.
It was a few years back - like 5 years ago. There was a photo of some guy who jumped the white house fence. Two secret service guys grabbed him up. One of them had a P90 SMG.
I have no idea if they still use it. But, the photo was in several news sources.
Littlelebowski
04-03-13, 16:50
What training classes have you taken with this weapon and can you show data regarding your times on popular drills? How is ammo availability nowadays?
Just in case it was missed.....
I can.
"The Five-seven is currently in service with military and police forces in over 40 nations, such as Canada, France, Greece, India, Poland, Spain, and the United States.[21] In the United States, the Five-seven is in use with numerous law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Secret Service.[14][22] In the years since the pistol's introduction to the civilian market in the United States, it has also become increasingly popular with civilian shooters."
Wikipedia
But what do they know. once they see it's a .22 Mag in disguise they'll be lobbing .45's.
The SS uses the P229 in .357. It's even on their website, under the FAQ section.
It's in all their holsters, just look at some photos.
Wikipedia is a starting point, not a source. Since the two sources listed are not available to us, they are useless.
It was a few years back - like 5 years ago. There was a photo of some guy who jumped the white house fence. Two secret service guys grabbed him up. One of them had a P90 SMG.
I have no idea if they still use it. But, the photo was in several news sources.
Ship, I think they are referencing the handgun the 5-7.
To the 5.7 mall ninja: it's a useless round without a fun switch and SMG length barrel.
My personal photos of the White House tour entrance, August 2010. That is a Secret Service guard.
The SS has been using for several years... and continues (as of 2010 I can show) to use the P90. Of course there currently aren't any more white house tours...
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/ick-xbox/rifle%20collection/PS-90/DSC00051.jpg
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/ick-xbox/rifle%20collection/PS-90/DSC00050.jpg
Sorry, couldn't zoom in enought to see which round is in the magazine. Pretty sure it is not 22mag, nudge, nudge.
ICK we know the SS uses the 5.7. We are debating the use of the 5-7.
alvincullumyork
04-03-13, 19:57
What training classes have you taken with this weapon and can you show data regarding your times on popular drills? How is ammo availability nowadays?
Just in case it was missed.....
I'm still waiting for him to comment on this
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913
Most people in the know would disagree.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913
You know, considering the majority of that research is more than 10 years out of date haha.
And in the know, again, people who have never used something going off paper. Many new rounds have come out for the 5.7 and its much more than just elite ammunition. You can use a whole slew of .224 bullets and tailor the round for just about anything.
This is a dead topic because you will always have the slew of people who havent owned or shot one thinking its a dead end, and you will always have the fanboys. I'm right in the middle. And many others are. In the end, if you dont like the 5.7 round, then dont comment on a 5.7 gun.Its always the same thing. The ballistics suck, its a dead round, etc.
Just in case it was missed.....
LOL because someone gets their ego a little butthurt when someone doesnt massage their chode with a nice personal response, to a lame question to begin with. Some people on here get a little creepy with the um you havent answered me yet, um um i need to prove my point, um um. lol. Internet "serious business" one "training class" at a time =)
PS ammo availability is just as bad as 5.56 rite now (O)(O)
LOL because someone gets their ego a little butthurt when someone doesnt massage their chode with a nice personal response, to a lame question to begin with. Some people on here get a little creepy with the um you havent answered me yet, um um i need to prove my point, um um. lol. Internet "serious business" one "training class" at a time =)
PS ammo availability is just as bad as 5.56 rite now (O)(O)
5.56 can actually be bought right now. 5.7, not so much. :lol:
You just have to know where to look =).I have at least 50 of these blue boxes full of T6, S4, or S4M and also a ton of 62gr Lake City .223 for sale.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2580wep.jpg
Ahem "Balistic science and previous documented OIS are full of shit, my five-seven is thors hammer!" Does that once again sum up this 5.7 thread? Also FWIW my glock holds 20 rounds of 147 hst....so the capacity of that novelty gun isn't exactly out of reach from the uninformed simpleton agencies like mine that considered, but chose to stay away from that fad and stick with 10.5 inch 5.56 platforms.
You just have to know where to look =).I have at least 50 of these blue boxes full of T6, S4, or S4M and also a ton of 62gr Lake City .223 for sale.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2580wep.jpg
Nobody wants to buy overpriced ammo.
Nobody wants to buy overpriced ammo.
Aww but this looked like such a sweet deal. :dance3:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=339643897
xrayoneone
05-04-13, 10:44
Just an FYI, the Secret Service ditched the P90 a while back. Shitty ballistics and FN's shitty customer service are a couple reasons why.
Honestly, for all the broken records who just keep saying shitty balistics, and this sucks, and you guys are stoopid, just pass along and go play in another thread. No need to here it be repeated over and over. You guys in the end are just as bad as the fanboys are.
Honestly, for all the broken records who just keep saying shitty balistics, and this sucks, and you guys are stoopid, just pass along and go play in another thread. No need to here it be repeated over and over. You guys in the end are just as bad as the fanboys are.
Instead of calling people "Stoopid" or "fanboys" how about posting some compelling studies, AAR's from shooting incidents, or the writings of well-respected industry professionals that back your argument that the 5.7mm is God's gift to tactical dominance. If you can't, then take your ass back to TOS where name calling is an accepted practice.
Failure2Stop
05-04-13, 13:43
Honestly, for all the broken records who just keep saying shitty balistics, and this sucks, and you guys are stoopid, just pass along and go play in another thread. No need to here it be repeated over and over. You guys in the end are just as bad as the fanboys are.
I fail to grasp your discussion points.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Instead of calling people "Stoopid" or "fanboys" how about posting some compelling studies, AAR's from shooting incidents, or the writings of well-respected industry professionals that back your argument that the 5.7mm is God's gift to tactical dominance. If you can't, then take your ass back to TOS where name calling is an accepted practice.
I never called anyone stupid, I was referring to how people are referring to the 5.7 and people who enjoy it.
Also since when is this a 5.7 debate thread? Thats my point. everytime anything comes up regarding a 5.7 gun, everyone and their monkeys uncle jumps in and says the same old bashing crap against the round. IMO if u dont like it, dont use it. Also, who cares about the discussion on terms of how it compares to other rounds.
O and btw, ive never been on tos fyi.
I think you need to re-read my post if your that confused to me calling names to people. Also, please quote me when I said this was the best round ever. Or even a replacement to another round. 5.7 is a fun round, nuff. said. Never said it was the best around. Never said anything even remotely close to it.
Five_Point_Five_Six
05-04-13, 15:28
Honestly, for all the broken records who just keep saying shitty balistics, and this sucks, and you guys are stoopid, just pass along and go play in another thread. No need to here it be repeated over and over. You guys in the end are just as bad as the fanboys are.
Your posts are no better and reek of butthurt.
xrayoneone
05-04-13, 15:59
Honestly, for all the broken records who just keep saying shitty balistics, and this sucks, and you guys are stoopid, just pass along and go play in another thread. No need to here it be repeated over and over. You guys in the end are just as bad as the fanboys are.
My post is directed at the discussion of the P90s use by the secret service. I gave two of the main reasons it is no longer in use. If this hurts someone's feelings too bad as those are the facts to it being dropped.
The P90 was a well designed weapon in regards to bullpups even though it was plagued with some parts failures. It was saddled with a cartridge that looked good on paper but proved otherwise in the real world. Couple this with poor CS and the end result was predictable.
Your posts are no better and reek of butthurt.
We have a form for that:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b374/willbrink/butthurt-report-form-internet-version.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/willbrink/media/butthurt-report-form-internet-version.jpg.html)
How about a 10mm M&P instead of the 5.7. I like the 5.7 less than I do the 10mm.Exactly what's been on my mind for the last 5-6 months. I'd REALLY love a pocket nuke in my favorite flavor rather than having it absolutely must be Glock. How much trouble might it be, I wonder, to have an existing M&P 45 converted to 10mm?
Coal Dragger
05-05-13, 03:36
Exactly what's been on my mind for the last 5-6 months. I'd REALLY love a pocket nuke in my favorite flavor rather than having it absolutely must be Glock. How much trouble might it be, I wonder, to have an existing M&P 45 converted to 10mm?
You would need a completely new breech face in the slide. Someone might be able to machine an insert after cutting out the current one. Better yet maybe at some point someone will offer custom slides for the M&P series. After that you'd need a barrel, recoil spring, and magazines.
In other words a complete new gun.
I could see S&W creating an M&P chambered in 10mm but not a 5.7 pistol. Until S&W gets caught up, I'm not sure that we'll see anything new. With it's current extreme backlog, S&W has to concentrate on its current production guns.
S. Galbraith
05-06-13, 08:10
I would be all over a 10mm M&P......no questions asked, here's my money. :D
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