View Full Version : Rem 700 PSS in 223 Load Development
Finally the stars aligned this past Sunday and I was able to get a new Remington 700 PSS in 223 with a 1-9 twist out to the range for a little load development. It is accessorized with a NF 20 MOA Base, NF Rings and a Vortex 4-16 FFP scope and a Hollands trigger spring kit dialed into a consistant 1.25 lbs.
The first Volley so to speak was an assortment of loads based around heavy bullets. One load with a 69 SMKs, a bunch of Hornady 75 AMAXs and MarkM’s pet 77 SMK loads. Also waiting in the wings is the Hornady 75 BTHP Match, Berger 77s and if able to stabilize some SMK 80s but would require throating. I wanted to focus on the AMAX with its .435 BC. The 75 AMAXs were pushed with Varget, RL-15. Waiting in the wings is TAC, 4064, H & IMR 4895. The 200 pieces of Lapua brass was a Christmas present to myself. The primers used were Wolf SRM and Remington 7 ½ specifically for the 69 grain load. Dies FL Bushing and Comp Seater. All rounds seated .010 off the lands. All groups 5 shots
As all AR15 folks who reload I was familiar with load development for 10.5” – 20” barrels but was slightly concerned of some of the velocities developed in a 26” tube.
LOADS
69 SMK 26.2 Win 748 +3350 - 3310 AVG 3331 ES: 40 SD 17
Rem 7.5 Groups were 2-3 inches
26.5 +3352 - 3310 AVG 3334 ES: 43 SD 14
Groups were 1.5-2 but all loads are over the top velocity wise. Primers cratering occasionally. This load previously was a .625 consistant load out of a 20” and a .35 - .45 in a 24” upper. Has to be different lots of primers and powder. Need to back it down to find the sweet spot.
26.8 +3402 - 3353 AVG 3386 ES 49 SD 22.8
First two were fine but cratered. Shots 3 & 4 pierced the primer and the remainder were pulled.
75 AMAX 24.0 Varget +2973 -2923 AVG 2943 ES 50.2 SD 19
1” Plus
24.5 Varget +2973 -2935 AVG 2958 ES 38.2 SD 15
.728
25.0 Varget +3053 - 2997 AVG 3019 ES 55.9 SD 22
.750
25.5 Varget +3080 - 3041 AVG 3063 ES 38.7 SD16
.625 Primers starting to crater.
23.0 RL-15 +2835 -2760 AVG 2791 ES 75 SD 24
1” & .485
23.5 +2893 -2769 AVG 2843 ES 123 SD 39
.745 & .604
24.0 +2965 -2920 AVG 2941 ES 44.3 SD 14
.870 & .436
77 SMK 21.0 H322 +2790 -2761 AVG 2761 ES 54.8 SD 17
21.6 H322 +2879 -2835 AVG 2858 ES 44.5 SD 14
Both loads half MOA or better but was pretty beat by this time.
I’d like to try a more of these loads on a better day when I’m not shooting 350 rounds the whole day. Just too much. Loads I’m looking at are Varget @ 25.0, 25.3 and 25.5, RL15 @ 23.9 and 24.1 for the 75’s and 21.4, 6 and 8 in H-322 for the 77 SMK.
All new brass was 1.750 OAL and 0.000 based on SAMMI base to shoulder datem. All once fired is in the 1.756-7 OAL and -.004 SAMMI so apparently this is a tight chamber. Loaded case necks are .239 and coming out @ .244. The 69gr SMK are hitting th lands @ 2.285 and the AMAXs are touching @ 2.341 The 77 SMK I think I seated to 2.275 so the throat compared to a 5.56 chamber is very short. Of the loaded rounds checked I saw nothing over .004 and generally in the .002 neighborhood. Nice brass.
That's a whole lotta shooting. Good results. What kind of primers where you using in Marks load.
I have been shocked over and over with primers impact.
What pappabear said about primers is very true. They can make or break the load. There is some good information on 6mmbr on matching primers to your load.
OP if you have access to a 300-500 yard range, you should run a ladder test. A true ladder test, not what a lot of people call a ladder test. Most people think a ladder test is loading 3-5 rounds from min to max in small increments. Then shoot each charge weight for groups. That is definitely not a ladder test.
If you do not know what a ladder test is you can find a great example on 6mmbr, or i can post the instructions if you want. You need at least 300 yards.
If you do not have access to at least 300 you can do the optimum charge weight test. They will get you closer to your optimum load in a lot less rounds with lewd fatigue.
You already have some good groups. The velocities are quite fast, but Im not used to seing what a 26" barrel will do.
PB: The primers were all Wolf SRM except for the 69 SMK load. The concentration tank was alittle empty after 200 rounds. As I mentioned earlier there is more room and a true ladder @ 800 will narrow it down. This was the first time out with this rifle and I had heard mixed results of remington 1-9 barrels stabilizing 75 gr pills. I think I'm in the clear there.
JSTONE: My range is located on State Forest in the coastal range @ 1800-2500 ft. This time of year fog is a problem, sometimes its clear and others it is pistol only @ 20m or less. Now that the weather is clearing and I know it'll stabilize 75s and is sub moa capable I can take it out to 6-800 and work the load properly.
The link for ladder testing is http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html.
Boxerglocker
03-05-13, 15:11
My R700 SPS Tactical will shoot MOA out to 600 yards with a 69 smk backed with 25.5g Varget in Lapua match brass with a Federal match SRP. This was a group of 10 shots at our first local 600 yard bench rest match this year.
http://images3a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp734%3A3%3Enu%3D68%3C5%3E%3A47%3E254%3EWSNRCG%3D348%3A427534345nu0mrj
PB: The primers were all Wolf SRM except for the 69 SMK load. The concentration tank was alittle empty after 200 rounds. As I mentioned earlier there is more room and a true ladder @ 800 will narrow it down. This was the first time out with this rifle and I had heard mixed results of remington 1-9 barrels stabilizing 75 gr pills. I think I'm in the clear there.
JSTONE: My range is located on State Forest in the coastal range @ 1800-2500 ft. This time of year fog is a problem, sometimes its clear and others it is pistol only @ 20m or less. Now that the weather is clearing and I know it'll stabilize 75s and is sub moa capable I can take it out to 6-800 and work the load properly.
The link for ladder testing is http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html.
You are getting great accuracy with the heavier bullets. I was not sure if you knew what a true ladder test is. I have found a lot of people truly do not know what it is. You have the range to do it, and are lucky you have that distance.
The primers you used should be fine. The 7.5's are very hot. They usually work best with ball powder and cases with larger volume. The wolf primers i have used have been the most accurate and given me some of the lowest sd numbers i have seen. I know a few others that have got similar results.
The only reason i made the recommendation is to try an save some components while finding your load. With the number of rounds you shot Im surprised by the results. My groups would have gone to shit after a little over a hundred. I can not keep my concentration very long. When i do load testing i try to keep it under a hundred rounds.
I use ocw because i only have 200 yards. I would even like to have a longer range for ocw, but ladder is not going to work for me at that distance. I have nothing over three hundred yards within 2 hours one way, and they have a 3-4 year wait list for member ships. You are very lucky with your range.
Just got done loading the ladders up. I need to get a drop tube for the varget load because I'm having problems getting my OAL short enough (2.431) so it ain't jammed in the lands or I need to boost the neck tension up a couple notches. I ended up putting the base against the lid of my case tumbler to settle the powder, seated the bullet to within .030, turning it upside down and tapping it then driving it the rest of the way home. Hopefully they'll quit growing on me. A personal masager would be perfect for this operation.
If the weather is good in the A.M. and the forcast will hold I'll have so data to ponder tomorrow evening.
I need to get a drop tube for the varget load
Again... I'll never understand why people go to the hastle of Varget in .223. :confused:
I'm all about dropping powder and all... but there's just no need in .223 in my opinion.
There are better and more friendly options out there. 8208 is starting to steal my attention away from H322.
8208 is by far my favorite powder. I still have 10lbs of varget to burn through, but ever since i found 8208 it has sat there along with all my other powders.
Op if you like varget and having a hard time seating the bullet on a full case. There is a company that sells a die made for compressing charges to make bullet seating easier. I think it is redding, but ill find out and update this post.
8208 is by far my favorite powder.
I'm haunted by the 2 pounds I left on the shelf at Cabelas as the panic retardation was catching steam.
Most imbeciles didn't know what it was, so it was one of the last powders left on the shelf. :mad:
Once this lunacy passes by, I'm getting a 50 gallon drum of it. :p
Yeah i know how you feel i was lucky enough to pick up another 8 pounds before everything got stupid. I have not bought anything after the craziness.
When things get back to normal i will pick up at least 9-10 8 pound kegs. If i could find a 50 gallon drum i would be all over it. It would be nice to have that much 8208 all of the same lot.
I heard that a company is going to try and replicate the original 8208/t32. It is an old mil surp powder that became a legend in the BR community. If you can find it anymore it will fetch around 100$ per pound. If it actually comes out we may have another winner. That's how we got the imr8208xbr. Someone trying to replicate the old 8208 was the project that brought us the wonderful 8208xbr.
My R700 SPS Tactical will shoot MOA out to 600 yards with a 69 smk backed with 25.5g Varget in Lapua match brass with a Federal match SRP. This was a group of 10 shots at our first local 600 yard bench rest match this year.
http://images3a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp734%3A3%3Enu%3D68%3C5%3E%3A47%3E254%3EWSNRCG%3D348%3A427534345nu0mrj
That's a great target and to do it with a factory Rem WOW. How did your other targets look?
I went ahead and scored it. congratulations
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu290/rgerh913/TgtGfx.jpg
I was able to score some RL-7 at the local dealer lately. Anybody have a good load for 55gr. Nosler flat base?
I heard that a company is going to try and replicate the original 8208/t32. It is an old mil surp powder that became a legend in the BR community. If you can find it anymore it will fetch around 100$ per pound. If it actually comes out we may have another winner. That's how we got the imr8208xbr. Someone trying to replicate the old 8208 was the project that brought us the wonderful 8208xbr.
I read that in Handloader Mag too.
Boxerglocker
03-08-13, 08:14
That's a great target and to do it with a factory Rem WOW. How did your other targets look?
I went ahead and scored it. congratulations
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu290/rgerh913/TgtGfx.jpg
Wow, thanks. The other 2 strings of 10 were about 8-10 inches with fliyers. It took me till the third string to really buckle down and get my scope dialed in group around the X. The previous 2 groups were higher and further right. Once I got it and trusted it it really closed up. I made it a point not to check as I was shooting with a spotting scope between shots the last string. Just tried to have a consistent hold, load the bipod and go with it.
Went out this morning. To make a long story short, I got out alittle late today ( got caught by the time change) and lost out on the 900 yd lane. I shot two Varget ladders about 30 minutes apart but .3 grain spread at 450-475 did not reveal enough data. I need to refire it at 600+. Both ladders were pretty evenly spaced vertically. Shot the second ladder in the misty clouds as the rain came in. Called it an afternoon and packed it in.
I did get my 40X barrel tuned alittle better so it wasn't a total flop. The factory stock has two barrel bedding escutcheons to apply upward pressure to the bottom of the barrel to dampen barrel vibration. They are located about two inches from the front of the stock. The only info I have found on them is in the 40x Rangemaster Manual downloadable through www.Team40x.com. It appears my rifle is fond of between 5-7 clicks on each side once the button just touches the barrel. It'll take more than the two to three 5 shot groups that I shot for each two click adjustment that I made to 12 clicks -each. When I hit ten, I knew I was going to far and it was confirmed with one group at 12. I got some respectable groups in the .28-.35 size back at 6 clicks with Wolf ME before taking it out to 100. Next I'll narrow it down between 5,6 or 7 clicks and call it good.
The scope need to go back to Leupold for turrets and a finer reticle (Leupy dot, 1/8 min Tgt Dot or fine CH). When they upgrade the scope to Mk4 M1 turrets I believe they will replace the center sectionm piece that has the VX3 turrets and hardware. If not they need to un**** the windage. It adjust and settles when its good and ready anywhere from the 1-6 shots after adjustment. Talk about chasing a spotter.... and the idiot behind the trigger falls for it every time. I just love working the bugs out.
I read that in Handloader Mag too.
I did not know it was in handloader mag. I gave up my subscription, because they went for about 6 months with stuff i was not interested in. I have picked up come recent issues from Barnes and noble, and i will probably start my subscription again. I did not think i would miss reading it, but i was wrong.
I do not remember where i read about the powder, but i learned about the thunderbird when i read how imr8208xbr got its start. If you read how it came about it was actually a powder used in sniper rounds. That is probably one of the reasons for its great accuracy.
Ttwwaack that's to bad you missed out on the 900 line. Im still kind of surprised you did not get much vertical difference at over 400. I figured with 223 400 would be enough distance to get some good data.
I have never heard about a system like you have on your 40x. I have used systems like the boss that are supposed to act in a similar fashion. Is your 40x a newer model or an older one?
I did not know it was in handloader mag. I gave up my subscription, because they went for about 6 months with stuff i was not interested in. I have picked up come recent issues from Barnes and noble, and i will probably start my subscription again. I did not think i would miss reading it, but i was wrong.
It's strange... they'll go half a year with a bunch of goofy crap I couldn't care less about and then they'll hit you with some really good stuff.
Handloader rag. MARKM +1. I had an online script for a few years which was nice while I was at work, except for the remote areas with weak ass (24K) dial up. I like the artcles on reloading in the rifle and huntin mags also (package deal) but all the new gun reviews they can stuff. Like any other mag, The Latest Greatest..... For once I like to see a gun rag just out and out call a POS a POS.
Back to the Varget ladder in .3 increments from 24.0 - 25.5. I'm taking it to book max and not getting any obvious signs of a sweet spot so I'll open up the window some more and start @ 23.0 - 25.6.
Since realizing the OAL was growing over a compressed load of 25.5 grains of Varget, the massaged rounds didn't grow any and primer cratering has disappeared @ 48 degrees.
I had good luck with 23.5g Varget pushing a SMK 69g bullet out of my AR-15NM rifle. The barrel twist rate was 1:7.75.
If you are going to do a lot of shooting at 500 yards or less with your bolt gun, try the Hornady 55g V-Max moly coated bullet. I load it with 26.0g of Varget and it shoots 1/2 MOA out to 300 yards with my Ruger KM77VTMKII with 1:12 barrel. It will hold 1 MOA out to 450 yards, then opens up to 1-1/2 MOA. The bullet is set back 0.010" from the lands and MV is 3220 fps.
I think that a quality 55g bullet will perform well out of a 1:9 barrel with the right charge weight and the V-Max is worth a try.
markm handloader mag hit me with one of those crap runs right as my subscription was up so i did not renew it. I Will probably subscribe again. The subject of the magazine make it harsh to have every issue be interesting to everybody. Reloading is so huge there is bound to be issues you are not interested in.
OP You could try the highpower load. Which is 24.1 grains of rl15, but varget can be substituted at 23.9 grains. You may need to go all the way to 24.1 with varget, but 23.9-24.1 should produce sub moa. This load is for the 77matchking use the rem 7.5 primers with this load. This is normally run in 1 in 7 AR barrels, but i have seen sub moa with 1 in 9 bolt guns.
That is a proven load that should shoot in pretty much any barrel that will stabilize the 77mk. Next time you go out bring a group or two of each load 23.9, 24.0, and 24.1. I have not encountered a good shooting barrel that Will not group sub moa with that load as long as the shooter is capable. The 23.9 should be fine but dorm some reason the few bolt guns i have seen run this load sometimes do better at 24.1.
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