what kind of handgun zero do you like?

[black22rifle]

what kind of handgun zero do you guys like on hand guns? i have warren tactical sights on my glock 19 with the .245" front sight which makes me shoot 1-2" high at 20 yards. originally i used the .215" front sight and i was like 6-8" high at 20 yards which was way too high, however at about 7 yards i was POA/POI.

[jmnielsen]

Where does it shoot now at 7yds?

[Matt O]

Personally, I prefer poa/poi to be at 25 yards if at all possible. That obviously isn't always achievable, with variations in manufacturing and how certain barrels work, as well as what front sight heights are available, so I'm also fine with poi being 1-2" high at 25 yards, but I'd prefer not to go much beyond that.

[black22rifle]

Now it shoots 2-3" low at 7 yards.

[Hmac]

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/dannywilliams_52/sightimages.jpg

My PPQ with stock came set up as #3 at 25 yards. I replaced those sights with a set of Dawson Precision with .180 tall front sight and now the gun wants #2, which is what I'm used to on the other American pistols I own.

[SPDGG]

imho:

POA/POI @ 25 yards

Impact will vary with ammo speed/weight, but the average will be about the same. The lower impact at closer distances is common/normal.
* Once you become accustom to your holds for your sights at various distances it becomes "norm".

fwiw [All WTS Rear] My:
- G26 & G19 use a .215 FS
- G17 .225
- G34 .235

^ All POA/POI @ 25 yards.
* Factory Ammo: Speer GD 124 +p
* Reloads: 124 JHP/FMJ

[ChuckTait]

I like my handguns sighted #2 at 25 yards (see image in couple of posts above by Hmac). That gives me sight picture #3 till about 15 yards, then #2 from then on. At 50 it's back to #3 again. YMMV.

[Litpipe]

Funny. I never thought about a zero for a handgun. I just learn how mine shoot, and aim accordingly based on distance.

[RSA-OTC]

Since my shooting is defensive oriented I go for poa/poi at 25 yards. That will give me desired results of hits within an 8 inch circle from 0 through 50 yards.

[okie john]

I polled all of the SMEs here and the unanimous answer was dead on at 25 yards.


Okie John

[HKGuns]

I prefer sight picture 3 as it is how most of my European based pistols operate and dead on at 25 yards.

It is also the most intuitive to me as lining up the dots across my POA makes the dots actually useful. With sight pictures 1 or 2 the three dots are useless, if not a distraction. I actually wish there were a global standard for this as it takes time to train yourself to use a US based sight picture like you will find on 1911's with three useless dots. (Fully realizing in a defensive situation any one of the three will work and this is really only an issue at the range, depending on distance of course.)

[Blayglock]

I prefer sight picture 3 to be dead on at 25 yards. "Driving the dot" is much more intuative under pressure to me.

[Failure2Stop]

Tip of front sight at 25 usually gives me "dot POI" at 5 to 15 in 9mm.


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[SigSlave]

Sight image 3 works for me. None of my pistols are for bullseye shooting. I want the front dot on POI.

[Maineshooter]

I like my handguns sighted #2 at 25 yards (see image in couple of posts above by Hmac). That gives me sight picture #3 till about 15 yards, then #2 from then on. At 50 it's back to #3 again. YMMV.

My preference too, exactly.

[Snake_207]

My preference too, exactly.

Same here.

[El Pistolero]

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac225/dannywilliams_52/sightimages.jpg

My PPQ with stock came set up as #3 at 25 yards. I replaced those sights with a set of Dawson Precision with .180 tall front sight and now the gun wants #2, which is what I'm used to on the other American pistols I own.

I prefer and shoot best with number 2.

[Insta-Gator]

#2. Old school iron shooting taught me #1, but #2 allows me to focus on the front sight and still maintain visual on target.

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[GH41]

What diameter is the circle in the OP's choices and at what range are the three sight pictures taken?? Take the white dots out of the picture and make the intended point of impact small and only one choice remains... #1, the old way. IMO the dots are only on sights to help you pick the sight up in low light or point shooting, not for aiming. I apologize for the chart. I did it quick in paint. GH
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t414/ghchhisc/Sight_zpsa435bd7b.jpg

[montrala]

The Warren and Heinie sights are designed for a 6 o'clock hold at 25 yards for whatever unknown reason.



That is a problem I run into when put Heinie on my HK45C. Shoots 4" high from "top of blade" POA at 25m (ca. 27yrd). I like dot-over-POI at close and medium distances (up to 15-17m) and POI cut in half by top of blade at 25m. I'm just on way to my gunsmith, who will shave 0.610mm (0.024") from my rear sight. But it is temporary solution. I plan to get Trijicon HD sights - hope they will mimic OFM HK sights regarding POA/POI.

[T2C]

I like a 50 yard zero. With most service calibers the point of impact will be 2"-3" high at 25 yards. I can hold COM on a silhouette out to 100 yards and get good hits. For head shots I hold on the bridge of the nose from 1 yard out to 25 yards.

[Steve S.]

That is a problem I run into when put Heinie on my HK45C. Shoots 4" high from "top of blade" POA at 25m (ca. 27yrd). I like dot-over-POI at close and medium distances (up to 15-17m) and POI cut in half by top of blade at 25m. I'm just on way to my gunsmith, who will shave 0.610mm (0.024") from my rear sight. But it is temporary solution. I plan to get Trijicon HD sights - hope they will mimic OFM HK sights regarding POA/POI.

For once, I think we agree. :) The HD's are exactly what you're looking for, as far as POA/POI at close and 25 yards / meters.


I like a 50 yard zero. With most service calibers the point of impact will be 2"-3" high at 25 yards. I can hold COM on a silhouette out to 100 yards and get good hits. For head shots I hold on the bridge of the nose from 1 yard out to 25 yards.


I've been considering a 50 yard zero since using an RMR for a bit. Can you break down the holds from 0-50y? Ive never played with a 50y zero on a handgun.

[Failure2Stop]

I've been considering a 50 yard zero since using an RMR for a bit. Can you break down the holds from 0-50y? Ive never played with a 50y zero on a handgun.

I like to verify deflection at 50 yards, but if I am having a bad day it can get a bit too loose for usable data unless shooting from a rest.

ETA: I have also noticed some pretty drastic changes to POI when switching ammunition.

[T2C]

I've been considering a 50 yard zero since using an RMR for a bit. Can you break down the holds from 0-50y? Ive never played with a 50y zero on a handgun.

My 9mm and 40 S&W have the same general hold over of 8" for 100 yards. I hold the top of the sights halfway between the nipples and the base of the neck on a B-27 silhouette. That usually gives me a low 10 ring or 9 ring hit for elevation. If I heel the pistol and the shot goes high, it usually hits roughly where I am aiming at 100 yards. Once in a while I will push one up in the head area. Shooting from the prone position at 100 yards you can get hits somewhere on a B-27 target at least 80% of the time if you bear down and shoot decent ammunition.

For shots from 1 yard to 20 yards the difference between the POA and POI is neglible. At 25 yards the rounds hit anywhere from 1" high to 3" high depending on what load I am shooting. At 50 yards you have zero and at 75 yards the rounds usually hit between 2" low and 5" low depending on the ammunition I am using.

Naturally you will have to verify your zero after selecting your defensive and practice ammunition. As F2S pointed out the point of impact can change dramatically when shooting different ammunition.

When I ran our firearms program at my work unit, I had my people shoot their pistols at 100 yards once a year. You may not have time to run back to the squad car and grab your rifle when trouble starts and it does not hurt to know what you are capable of doing with your service pistol. Some of our personnel were actually surprised at how well they shot at 100 yards.

A couple times a year I will shoot my Glock 22 at 200 meters for grins. That is where it gets really interesting. I have to hold over between 6 and 8 feet depending on the cartridge and hold off to the left 4 to 6 feet to compensate for rotational drift. On some days I hit somewhere on a B-27 target 10% of the time and on a good day I have hit 30%. At 200 meters the Federal 180g HST punches through 3/4" plywood without any problems. You never know what you and your equipment will do until you push yourself.

[Coal Dragger]

I like a service style auto or revolver to be sighted in around 2-3" high at 25 yards to allow me to use a mild 6' o' clock hold. As stated above this will usually give an approximate POA POI at 50 yards of the bullets hitting right at the top of the front sight.

For my magnum revolvers with relatively flat trajectories like my .454 Casull, I prefer to be sighted at 100 yards with bullets hitting at the top of the front sight. I have recently put a Trijicon RMR on this particular revolver and will probably sight the dot at 100 yards as well. Using 240gr bullets at 1900fps a zero at 100 yards really doesn't have much shift in impact within 100 yards, and even 300gr bullets at 1500-1650fps shoot pretty flat.

[Steve S.]

I like to verify deflection at 50 yards, but if I am having a bad day it can get a bit too loose for usable data unless shooting from a rest.

ETA: I have also noticed some pretty drastic changes to POI when switching ammunition.

The ammunition point is a good one, and one I hadn't considered.

Jack, in your honest opinion, any benefit to a 50y handgun zero?

My 9mm and 40 S&W have the same general hold over of 8" for 100 yards. I hold the top of the sights halfway between the nipples and the base of the neck on a B-27 silhouette. That usually gives me a low 10 ring or 9 ring hit for elevation. If I heel the pistol and the shot goes high, it usually hits roughly where I am aiming at 100 yards. Once in a while I will push one up in the head area. Shooting from the prone position at 100 yards you can get hits somewhere on a B-27 target at least 80% of the time if you bear down and shoot decent ammunition.

For shots from 1 yard to 20 yards the difference between the POA and POI is neglible. At 25 yards the rounds hit anywhere from 1" high to 3" high depending on what load I am shooting. At 50 yards you have zero and at 75 yards the rounds usually hit between 2" low and 5" low depending on the ammunition I am using.

Naturally you will have to verify your zero after selecting your defensive and practice ammunition. As F2S pointed out the point of impact can change dramatically when shooting different ammunition.

When I ran our firearms program at my work unit, I had my people shoot their pistols at 100 yards once a year. You may not have time to run back to the squad car and grab your rifle when trouble starts and it does not hurt to know what you are capable of doing with your service pistol. Some of our personnel were actually surprised at how well they shot at 100 yards.

A couple times a year I will shoot my Glock 22 at 200 meters for grins. That is where it gets really interesting. I have to hold over between 6 and 8 feet depending on the cartridge and hold off to the left 4 to 6 feet to compensate for rotational drift. On some days I hit somewhere on a B-27 target 10% of the time and on a good day I have hit 30%. At 200 meters the Federal 180g HST punches through 3/4" plywood without any problems. You never know what you and your equipment will do until you push yourself.

Thanks, exactly what I was wondering.

This year was suppose to be about pushing to the next rung of the ladder, then all the ammo disappeared.

For this particular instance, the RMR is on an aftermarket G19 slide. I generally shoot the same practice ammo, and this slide never gets carried (not yet... or for a long time at least). So here I do have the benefit of not worrying about ammo changing POI.

Thanks guys.

[Failure2Stop]

The ammunition point is a good one, and one I hadn't considered.

Jack, in your honest opinion, any benefit to a 50y handgun zero?


I think it's worth it to know where your gun will hit at distance for the reasons stated by TC. Since most users will only be able to correct deflection on their sights I urge shooters more toward knowing where their gun shoots than in getting a perfect vertical zero on them.

For an RMR, with no issues with the sight covering portions of the target, I think that a 50 meter zero is the way to go, unless longer range applications are needed, or if it is a dedicated unit for a specific requirement.


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[Hootiewho]

I am extremely lucky that I have a private 200 yard range with steel at my house with steel. I do walk back drills and walk around taking random distance shots at steel weekly. Too many people dismiss the pistol at distance. It is not perfect, but still very viable.

I think the 50 yd zero discussed is a great option, especially with the 9mm. I have done a ton of sand bagged group shooting at 100 yds with the 9mm & 45acp. With my HK P30 9mm, Federal HST 124gr +P and Heinie sights there is very little change (considering) in hold out to 100. With a full sized 45 I found 10-14" is about the norm with defensive ammo for a hold at that distance. Low powered ammo even more. The 9mm is definitely better suited for that type of shooting. I am use to the 6 o'clock hold of the heinies. I have grown to like it as when I am focusing on my front sight, the lower hold allows me to keep track of where my target is vs covering a small target with a dot or at the blade tip. With sights like #2, in some lighting can cause glare issues right at your point of impact that mess with me at distance.

But in truth, from 25 yards out, proper trigger pull, ammo selection and having the sights zero'd for your choice ammo is most important. I see more horizontal shift with different ammo brands than vertical and some ammo just will not group well at distance, and I have noticed 124 gr +p gold dot and HST are usually good groupers at that distance.

So my vote in sight set ups will be like pic #1. With the Heinies at 7 yards in, I put the dot over what I want to hit and it is dead on.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I definitely prefer poa/poi. I run my front sight like an aimpoint. This is why I stopped replacing my autoloader sights--the HKs I prefer are set up like this from the factory so I usually send them to tool tech rather than fooling with aftermarket sights.

[TiroFijo]

You want a 25 yard zero with your rounds hitting at the tip of the front sight or just a hair above. Slightly above is better than slightly below because your POI is not visually obscured.

This is my preference as well, I try to get POI about 0.5-1.0" above the tip of the front sight at 25 m. This allows for very accurate shooting from 0 to 50+ m (1" or less above or below line of sight in this entire range with a typical 9 mm 115-124 gr load), and you can still hit at 100 or even 200 m with a little holdover and experience.

If you run the numbers, this zero is basically the same as a 50 m zero, with little variations depending on the load used.

[T2C]

If I never shot farther than 25 yards, I would rather have a handgun that hits 3" high at 25 yards than one that hits 1" low.

[Roklok]

Point of aim at 25 yards.