View Full Version : Mid size local PD to buy SR556s and LWRCs
Have to share this...
A friend of mine, who is a shooter, is also a LEO for a medium size municipal police force. The department recently decided to go away from F2000s to go back to a traditional AR platform.
They apparently just got done testing and in their tests, the Ruger SR556 apparently beat the Colt, DD and whatever else they tested... The SWAT guys are being issued LWRCs. I am totally confused as to how this happened... This is definitely the first department to swap to Rugers around here that I know of. Interesting interesting...
Will
Forgot to mention, for patrol officers the final choice was Colt or Ruger, apparently they found the Ruger "vastly superior"... :suicide2:
MountainRaven
03-11-13, 19:52
Based on what they chose (and where they're coming from) I would hazard to guess that DI was not on the menu.
Too damn heavy. The Chief should have to hold that thing up for an hour covering a door.
Too damn heavy. The Chief should have to hold that thing up for an hour covering a door.
That was something I pointed out... I suspect my friend is going to petition to use his personally owned M4. He can't figure out how they made the decisions.
I'd imagine that cost, availability and whatever free stuff Ruger was throwing in was a major decision maker.
I'd imagine that cost, availability and whatever free stuff Ruger was throwing in was a major decision maker.
That's a good point, I have a rough idea what they cost, it's still higher than the colts, but I am not sure what else may have been thrown in.
Five_Point_Five_Six
03-11-13, 20:25
Where's markm when you need him?
mastiffhound
03-11-13, 22:16
My 20" PSA is lighter than my Ruger SR556, it's the reason why my PSA has been getting more time on the range. I would pick the gas gun over the piston every time. Too bad I bought the Ruger before I knew better. If I had a chance to test out the two before hand I wouldn't own the Ruger.
I won't bash the company publicly but I know why this is happening. A salesperson for this company is retired from the Atty. General's office and knows a lot of the older guys that are now chiefs and is capable of selling freezers to an Eskimo.
The police department where I live is now fully equipped with Sig 1911s and SERPA holsters because what this guys says is golden. The large city next to us is now fully equipped with LWRC rifles for their SWAT team and Colt 6920s on patrol.
This is all thanks to the same sales person and company that does a ton of LE business in eastern PA. If this company had better equipment to sell this area would be full of it.
Call and request a copy of the comprehensive test and evaluation report. File a public records request if necessary. Note what response you receive, or lack thereof.
Cory, I know quite a few of the guys on that team and from what I know the chief had nothing to do with the decision. It cam down to the team and the officer in charge of the firearms program that made the decision.
Here's what I don't quite grasp. Why would the LWRC be a good choice for SWAT and not for patrol and vice versa? Are there profound differences between the set ups?
Why would you try and support two different systems that both do the same thing? Maybe I am missing something here.
Have to share this...
A friend of mine, who is a shooter, is also a LEO for a medium size municipal police force. The department recently decided to go away from F2000s to go back to a traditional AR platform.
They apparently just got done testing and in their tests, the Ruger SR556 apparently beat the Colt, DD and whatever else they tested... The SWAT guys are being issued LWRCs. I am totally confused as to how this happened... This is definitely the first department to swap to Rugers around here that I know of. Interesting interesting...
Will
Here's what I don't quite grasp. Why would the LWRC be a good choice for SWAT and not for patrol and vice versa? Are there profound differences between the set ups?
Why would you try and support two different systems that both do the same thing? Maybe I am missing something here.
Perhaps the LWRC guns are "better" than the Ruger guns, but are cost prohibitive so they can only afford to equip people who are most likely to user their long guns with the better weapon? That's my WAG.
Here's what I don't quite grasp. Why would the LWRC be a good choice for SWAT and not for patrol and vice versa? Are there profound differences between the set ups?
Why would you try and support two different systems that both do the same thing? Maybe I am missing something here.
I was thinking the same thing. Why not issue the same rifle to everyone to keep costs of weapon training, armorer training, replacement parts etc. down?
Separate budget allotments maybe?
Then my follow up would be how many times is the SWAT team called out on regular basis as opposed to the patrol officers who are out every day/night?
I would like to know what the testing criteria and requisites were for their choices.
Perhaps the LWRC guns are "better" than the Ruger guns, but are cost prohibitive so they can only afford to equip people who are most likely to user their long guns with the better weapon? That's my WAG.
Separate budget allotments maybe?
Where I work it's a separate budget and separate testing and evaluation issue. SWAT buys what it wants based on senior SWAT leadership decisions from the SWAT budget and patrol gets what the training academy/Chief wants from the general fund/federal grant money. This is why I have a city issued M&P .40 and City issued Springfield Operator.
ffhounddog
03-12-13, 05:43
LWRCs might be in 6.8? 1/7 twist on lwrci and 1/9 twist on rugers, Maybe seperate bullet weights?
ICANHITHIMMAN
03-12-13, 05:50
Have to share this...
A friend of mine, who is a shooter, is also a LEO for a medium size municipal police force. The department recently decided to go away from F2000s to go back to a traditional AR platform.
They apparently just got done testing and in their tests, the Ruger SR556 apparently beat the Colt, DD and whatever else they tested... The SWAT guys are being issued LWRCs. I am totally confused as to how this happened... This is definitely the first department to swap to Rugers around here that I know of. Interesting interesting...
Will
Just reading your initial post and no others I would surmise that a combination of "they don't know any better" events took place. I see the overwhelming influencing of marketing.
Littlelebowski
03-12-13, 06:34
Maybe they went with LWRC SBRs?
Maybe they went with LWRC SBRs?
That is correct. I just talked to him again the LWRCs were done for barrel length. Apparently they ran the rugers for 6000 rounds without cleaning or any malfunction. I kind of want to see inside the gun, in a bad way... Sorry for the short reply can't see gun sites on my computer at work
Will
BoringGuy45
03-12-13, 09:09
A small-mid sized department (about 70-75 officers) I know got SR556s for all the patrol officers (though I believe the guys from the dept. who are on the regional SWAT team can get pretty much what they want). According to an officer with whom I did a ride along, the SRs are pretty universally loved in the department. He liked his issued rifle so much he bought his own personal one.
I'm frankly not a fan of the SR556 though as it just feels to front heavy and overall too bulky.
I do like LWRC though.
Cory, I know quite a few of the guys on that team and from what I know the chief had nothing to do with the decision. It cam down to the team and the officer in charge of the firearms program that made the decision.
I spoke with A.B. in depth about this and gave him my input. He said that the fact that they took all of their MP5 in trade was the deal breaker.
WickedWillis
03-12-13, 12:30
Wait, they were using F2000's? Who runs the armory at this PD?
Littlelebowski
03-12-13, 12:31
Wait, they were using F2000's? Who runs the armory at this PD?
CoryCop25. I encourage you all to send him hateful PMs :D
I spoke with A.B. in depth about this and gave him my input. He said that the fact that they took all of their MP5 in trade was the deal breaker.
I was thinking about that. What did they do as far as a trade in. That can make the deal for a lot of places.
The company took the SWAt team's MP5s (I think $2500 each) for trade for LWRC 10.5 SBRs. The patrol units all got 6920s.
Let me be perfectly clear:
The guy in charge of the firearms is a great guy and a great cop. The sales person for this company has been around in the LE field for quite a while. He actually worked with my grandfather. I think that the company doesn't realize that when these LWRCs take a dump, these departments won't be able to fix them because of the lack of availability of all of the propriatary parts.
I would call marketing and salesman bullshit. We were looking at buying 120 rifles and for some reason the boss had a bug for Ruger. I don't know how much info I gave him from this site and other testing info but it didn't matter. He was dead set.
We ended up with S&W MP 15T's which have been great so far. But I still don't know how the bosses came up with Ruger saying it beat our HK, Colt, Smith, there were some other brands but they were junk. Atleast we didn't end up wth Sigs.
I wonder if those were fully transferables or just post 86 guns? Some times people need to learn a hard lesson. Unfortunately it's usually someone else that has to take the hit first.
The company took the SWAt team's MP5s (I think $2500 each) for trade for LWRC 10.5 SBRs. The patrol units all got 6920s.
Let me be perfectly clear:
The guy in charge of the firearms is a great guy and a great cop. The sales person for this company has been around in the LE field for quite a while. He actually worked with my grandfather. I think that the company doesn't realize that when these LWRCs take a dump, these departments won't be able to fix them because of the lack of availability of all of the propriatary parts.
I wonder if those were fully transferables or just post 86 guns? Some times people need to learn a hard lesson. Unfortunately it's usually someone else that has to take the hit first.
Some were transferable and some were not. Last one was purchased in 1989.
So any transferables should be able to be resold (unless I am wrong) which means that the guy who brokered that deal is going to make a killing.
Some were transferable and some were not. Last one was purchased in 1989.
So any transferables should be able to be resold (unless I am wrong) which means that the guy who brokered that deal is going to make a killing.
Sounds like the PD got ripped off.
Sounds like the PD got ripped off.
From my experience, the Police executives making decisions know very little about what they are making decisions on. I wonder if the person (not the gun guy who made the deal but the execs who allowed it) understand the market value of the MP5's they got rid of. Then again, its not like they could sell them to the public.
I remember reading a post not to long ago about a guy that needed to clean his SR556 under the rail as mud had gotten clogged in there from a hunting trip. Rugers response was to send it in. That's going to be nice for the PD. Sorry Officer we can't work on your gun, we have to send it to Ruger. Hope you don't get any hot calls for the next couple of weeks.
Wait, they were using F2000's? Who runs the armory at this PD?
That's the first thing that caught my eye as well.
I remember reading a post not to long ago about a guy that needed to clean his SR556 under the rail as mud had gotten clogged in there from a hunting trip. Rugers response was to send it in. That's going to be nice for the PD. Sorry Officer we can't work on your gun, we have to send it to Ruger. Hope you don't get any hot calls for the next couple of weeks.
Yeah, that thread wasn't to long ago. Hopefully, the PD has their own armorer's that can do the required maintenance on their Rugers so they don't have to send them back all the time.
NYH1.
That is correct. I just talked to him again the LWRCs were done for barrel length. Apparently they ran the rugers for 6000 rounds without cleaning or any malfunction. I kind of want to see inside the gun, in a bad way... Sorry for the short reply can't see gun sites on my computer at work
Will
I wish my BCM could do that...
Oh wait :D
But seriously, are they trying to say the Colts couldn't do this?
Yep, the trade did set the deal but,,,,,,,the buyer the vendor had for the MP5's backed out so the vendor took a hit. As it stands right now the LWRC's are performing well with great accuracy but time will tell.
I wish my BCM could do that...
Oh wait :D
But seriously, are they trying to sale the Colts couldn't do this?
I am not even sure... Apparely Colt came #2 but it sounds like it never had a chance because of the piston mentality
Wait, they were using F2000's? Who runs the armory at this PD?
It's a weird deal... They had F2000s, had some sort of a problem with them, they were all traded even for brand new P90s... The brand new P90s are being sold/traded toward the SR556s. Like I said, musical guns, weird deal... The dept will now be equipped with Glock 35s, Mossberg 500s and SR556s. I am not sure on sidearm for SWAT, but they will now have LWRC rifles.
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