View Full Version : Prostitution?
Belmont31R
03-15-13, 01:11
Legal or not?
Stossel had a good program on tonight about it. Some good questions with 'The Bunny Ranch' girls.
While I am perfectly married and don't need their services I don't understand why this is illegal. Porn is a multi billion dollar industry, and yet if you want to do the same thing in private its illegal. Then police departments setup 'vice' squads to go setup stings and pose as both johns & prostitutes. What a waste of time.
I just can't fathom how making it illegal benefits us at all or is a good use of resources to 'combat'.
Legal or not?
Stossel had a good program on tonight about it. Some good questions with 'The Bunny Ranch' girls.
While I am perfectly married and don't need their services I don't understand why this is illegal. Porn is a multi billion dollar industry, and yet if you want to do the same thing in private its illegal. Then police departments setup 'vice' squads to go setup stings and pose as both johns & prostitutes. What a waste of time.
I just can't fathom how making it illegal benefits us at all or is a good use of resources to 'combat'.
We took down a ecstasy distribution crew in December, also tied to pimping and prostitution in the region (region, not area). One of the girls supplying them with cell phones in her name/account was an eighteen year-old from the Seattle area. She had five prostitution arrests in the eight months she had been working in our AO. Two of those were for engaging in prostitution while being HIV positive. Waste of time? Really?
We took down a ecstasy distribution crew in December, also tied to pimping and prostitution in the region (region, not area). One of the girls supplying them with cell phones in her name/account was an eighteen year-old from the Seattle area. She had five prostitution arrests in the eight months she had been working in our AO. Two of those were for engaging in prostitution while being HIV positive. Waste of time? Really?
You drive it underground and that is what you get.
Yes, it is a waste of time and effort.
---
thopkins22
03-15-13, 01:56
You drive it underground and that is what you get.
Yes, it is a waste of time and effort.
---
Exactly. The current laws make it violent, abusive, disease and drug addled, and generally awful. If it is to remain illegal, then sure go ahead and try and curb it. Of course people have tried to stop it for centuries if not millennia....
But in places where it's legal and either governmentally regulated or sufficiently decriminalized so that industry self imposed regulations can exist(and both client and worker grievances can be addressed in court,) the awful parts of the profession/industry simply don't exist with a few rare exceptions.
The illegality of prostitution(and drugs for that matter) means that only criminals will supply those services. It's not a surprise then that they deliver those services in a criminal fashion with little to no ethics/morals and there is no non-violent mechanism to sort the industry out(civil court.)
Alaskapopo
03-15-13, 02:09
Legal or not?
Stossel had a good program on tonight about it. Some good questions with 'The Bunny Ranch' girls.
While I am perfectly married and don't need their services I don't understand why this is illegal. Porn is a multi billion dollar industry, and yet if you want to do the same thing in private its illegal. Then police departments setup 'vice' squads to go setup stings and pose as both johns & prostitutes. What a waste of time.
I just can't fathom how making it illegal benefits us at all or is a good use of resources to 'combat'.
I think the world would be better off if it were legal and regulated (checks ups for STDs etc)
Pat
We took down a ecstasy distribution crew in December, also tied to pimping and prostitution in the region (region, not area). One of the girls supplying them with cell phones in her name/account was an eighteen year-old from the Seattle area. She had five prostitution arrests in the eight months she had been working in our AO. Two of those were for engaging in prostitution while being HIV positive. Waste of time? Really?
sounds like the previous arrests did not stop her ? so I think that is what I would mean with a waste of time criminals are going to do criminal activities
I think we should have the Amsterdam model where you have regulated red light districts that are controlled and taxed. It would be better for the girls it would be better for the guys.
And quite honestly you can get all kinds of nasty shit from sticking your dick into some chick you met at a bar or club.
I am against any of it happening ! but I am also against drugs !
also for a free country so some things are not my business and have to live with the fact if people want to do this better have some control to take the criminal activity of it out safer for everyone
as it is now legalizing it they should/would have to really really crack down on the illegal side of it then big time
otherwise you will still have a underground side of it going on that could be more dangerous with girls that did not make the med exam etc..
at the same time you would have to be careful how these places open and are licensed and monitored otherwise you just legalize johns ! so that side would have to be regulated somehow
make sure you dont just make abusive johns legal somehow !
make sure they are still not being forced or beaten or things like that
also I think where they can be etc.. would have to be greatly restricted sorry would not want one in my neighborhood !
For all sexual offender statistics- where western world countries where prostitution is legal generally have lower rates- I am of the firm opinion that these girls do a great service to public safety.
Animal_Mother556
03-15-13, 03:02
Waste of time? Really?
Yes...really.
I spent numerous years of my life in Europe which tolerates prostitution in most places that I visited and lived (Holland, Germany, France, Switzerland and Spain). Although it is far from perfect (they still have organized gangs running prosties, underage girls, etc..) but there does seem to be more control especially in the legalized brothels.
The girls pay taxes, they are required to get regular check ups (most of them will only perform sex acts with condoms) and it generally helps to confine the trade to certain areas of the cities. For some reason we have this infatuation with trying to regulate what goes on the bedrooms of America and we have some weird aversion to discussing matters related to sex.
I would personally like to see it regulated, and legalized and maybe it would help with the ongoing issues we seem to have in the U.S.
I spent numerous years of my life in Europe which tolerates prostitution in most places that I visited and lived (Holland, Germany, France, Switzerland and Spain). Although it is far from perfect (they still have organized gangs running prosties, underage girls, etc..) but there does seem to be more control especially in the legalized brothels.
The girls pay taxes, they are required to get regular check ups (most of them will only perform sex acts with condoms) and it generally helps to confine the trade to certain areas of the cities. For some reason we have this infatuation with trying to regulate what goes on the bedrooms of America and we have some weird aversion to discussing matters related to sex.
I would personally like to see it regulated, and legalized and maybe it would help with the ongoing issues we seem to have in the U.S.
I concur. Is it legal in any other state besides NV?
I think our regulating bedroom obsession has to do with the fact that showing a female breast is R rated but slicing people up with a sword is PG-13.
I would whore myself out for a Bolt Carrier Group right about now :eek:
I concur. Is it legal in any other state besides NV?
I think our regulating bedroom obsession has to do with the fact that showing a female breast is R rated but slicing people up with a sword is PG-13.
Never was forced to watch Titanic, where you?
It's silly, plain and simple. What two consenting adults choose to do in private, should be their business and their business alone. It really is that simple.
If the courts have ruled that a woman has a right to discard a child, they certainly have no business regulating her cock consumption.
Five_Point_Five_Six
03-15-13, 06:59
As a Christian, I find it morally wrong to have sex with a prostitute, use drugs, commit adultery etc, but I don't feel it should be illegal.
I also know that my feelings on the subject isn't the norm among other Christians. Some folks can't separate wrong and illegal, and believe everything that isn't good should have some legislation following it.
It's silly, plain and simple. What two consenting adults choose to do in private, should be their business and their business alone. It really is that simple.
If the courts have ruled that a woman has a right to discard a child, they certainly have no business regulating her cock consumption.
LMAO!! So true.
I would whore myself out for a Bolt Carrier Group right about now :eek:
My first thought on reading the title "The lengths people are going to get spares and ammo."
****ing is legal... selling is legal... why is selling ****ing illegal?
I don't have use for it, mainly because I'd rather pretend by paying for it with dinner, movies, vacations and diamonds rather than an outright monetary transaction, but I see no reason why someone should not be able to just buy a good time.
If its legal, as others have said, it would be a lot less dangerous and the caliber of women would be much higher. The crack whores I see in Atlantic City are SCARY!
Plus, from what I understand you don't pay here to get there and show u a good time, you're paying here to leave afterwords. :sarcastic:
But in places where it's legal and either governmentally regulated or sufficiently decriminalized so that industry self imposed regulations can exist(and both client and worker grievances can be addressed in court,) the awful parts of the profession/industry simply don't exist with a few rare exceptions.
The illegality of prostitution(and drugs for that matter) means that only criminals will supply those services. It's not a surprise then that they deliver those services in a criminal fashion with little to no ethics/morals and there is no non-violent mechanism to sort the industry out(civil court.)
Exactly. While I do not consider prostitution immoral, .gov has no business trying to regulate morality.
Dating and marriage is legal.... so why not prostitution
same concept if you really look at it..
I'm sure they'll eventually get around to taxing my dick, just wondering if it will be based on length or girth.
I'm sure they'll eventually get around to taxing my dick, just wondering if it will be based on length or girth.
they will not tax it on the size... but how you use it. :sarcastic:
they will not tax it on the size... but how you use it. :sarcastic:
Would it be an
wait for it
income
tax?
Would it be an
wait for it
income
tax?
could be a Terrif if it's being imported at the time...
Okay, I'm done.. promises...
SomeOtherGuy
03-15-13, 09:36
Some folks can't separate wrong and illegal, and believe everything that isn't good should have some legislation following it.
This. There are lots of things I don't want to touch that I don't think the government should try to ban either. Marijuana is another example.
theblackknight
03-15-13, 09:55
Well, we have a nation founded by religious puritans who were escaping the persecution and hedonism of europe. I fully expect people in this country to be childish about "dirty" subjects.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
El Pistolero
03-15-13, 10:00
This. There are lots of things I don't want to touch that I don't think the government should try to ban either. Marijuana is another example.
That's another can of worms for sure. I think marijuana should be legal, it's less harmful than alcohol and tobacco and yet it wastes so many of our tax dollars on the useless 'War on Drugs.' I'm not sure about the prostitution, all I remember is the Philippino girls giving 'happy endings' as part of the drunken massage. If that's prostitution then I want it legalized. I wish I'd gone to Europe instead of the PACAF region....our red light districts weren't like the Netherlands....
As a Christian, I find it morally wrong to have sex with a prostitute, use drugs, commit adultery etc, but I don't feel it should be illegal.
I also know that my feelings on the subject isn't the norm among other Christians. Some folks can't separate wrong and illegal, and believe everything that isn't good should have some legislation following it.
Agreed. A society that valued liberty would tolerate it. The states and local governments could ensure it was safe and self-sufficient. The moral leaders could conduct religious outreach and comport with religious edicts on speaking out against it. Sex shouldn't be the dirty undertaking that many Americans try to view it as.
Mauser KAR98K
03-15-13, 11:23
Wait, this thread isn't about the CO legislature and Bloomberg?
It's the economy, stupid. If every U.S. Senator has to travel to the Dominican Republic there won't be any income for Americans!
I lived where prostitution was legal and guess what? There were still plenty of "underground" pimps and whores. Didn't want to pay the taxes, license fees, or mandatory check-up fees. Countries with legal whores still have plenty of illegal whores.
They say prostitution is the worlds oldest profession. They say espionage is number two.
Consenting adults and all that.
Propose a liscense, check ups etc.
Prostitution may be illegal, but hiring a nude figure model to make an art film is perfectly legal. Just saying.
:sarcastic:
Prostitution may be illegal, but hiring a nude figure model to make an art film is perfectly legal. Just saying.
:sarcastic:
HA! I was just about to post something along the same lines.
Let people do what they want to do as long as it isn't physically hurting anyone.
I personally find prositution deplorable and quite a disgusting notion; but more power to the sickos who want to take part in such immoral acts, no sweat off my sac...
The Govt. has no place legislating morals, that is for the individual to decide.
Prostitution may be illegal, but hiring a nude figure model to make an art film is perfectly legal. Just saying.
:sarcastic:
Yeah, but a lot more complex- sometimes you want to rent a porche and sometimes you want to get a taxi.
Dating and marriage is legal.... so why not prostitution
same concept if you really look at it..
No, one is done under the sanctity of perpetuating society and nation. It's MORAL, by definition.
Prostitution perpetuates immorality, disease and undermines all that marriage supports.
Legalize drugs? Go to the ghettoes and trailer parks for a look see.
http://youtu.be/gqnhoiv9hT4
I think it should be legal and regulated. Making it illegal is pointless and ineffective at best.
Magic_Salad0892
03-15-13, 16:55
Make it legal.
Honestly. I'd even try to get the girlfriend's permission to go to the whorehouse, just because I've never been inside one, and haven't been to Europe.
thopkins22
03-15-13, 17:04
Prostitution perpetuates immorality, disease and undermines all that marriage supports.
Legalize drugs? Go to the ghettoes and trailer parks for a look see.
If you for one second think that less than two thirds of the children at your child's school won't have tried drugs by the time they are done with their freshman year of college(and most of them before then,) then you are delusional at best.
I don't care whether you live in a trailer park and enjoy Jerry Springer, or Annapolis, Maryland and enjoy weekends sailing the bay on a multimillion dollar yacht, statistically your chances of having a child try drugs and having easy access to them is the same.
I've seen first hand both extremes of the socioeconomic scale. If kids and young adults have one thing in common, it's the desire to make bad decisions and get intoxicated with drugs and alcohol. This was true in suburban Texas, at a moderately elite Episcopalian boarding school in VA, at a very expensive Catholic school in Annapolis, and in impoverished rural WV.
Here's what gets me: I can hire a woman and film her performing sex acts with the intent of publishing it and that's perfectly legal. Hire the same woman to do the same thing without a camera present and it's illegal?
Totally stupid.
Just like drugs and so many other things in our society, I have no desire to partake, but the government has no business telling adults what they can and can't do as long as they are not hurting anyone.
Purely an issue for each state and municipality. I'm happy as long as the whore house is further than walking distance, but still in driving distance ;).
Magic_Salad0892
03-15-13, 18:44
No, one is done under the sanctity of perpetuating society and nation. It's MORAL, by definition.
Prostitution perpetuates immorality, disease and undermines all that marriage supports.
Legalize drugs? Go to the ghettoes and trailer parks for a look see.
Guns perpetuate violence too, right?
And before you throw the "go the the ghettoes, and trailer parks" line at me as well... I grew up in them. I saw drugs, and prostitution. I grew up around that shit. Sacramento, CA doesn't get a lot of attention because it doesn't have the highest murder rate or anything, but it's surrounded by counties that have rediculously high drug related crimes, and prostitution.
If they were made legal, then criminals wouldn't be the ones profiting. It's be law abiding family men/women, with "exotic" businesses. I mean, there's a woman who's made a career on selling VIRTUAL prostitutes (Google Second Life) and that's apperantly legal.
Purely an issue for each state and municipality. I'm happy as long as the whore house is further than walking distance, but still in driving distance ;).
Should it really even have to be legislated at any level? If its her business then simply file sched c, write off the lube, dildos, gag ball, clothes etc and pursue the American Dream...
Adults are accountable for the risks associated with whatever choices they make and most of the shit we like to do comes with risk. Most adult men are smart enough to know the dangers of making his "date" a cum dumpster for the weekend. If they aren't, well then stupid hurts.
Should it really even have to be legislated at any level? If its her business then simply file sched c, write off the lube, dildos, gag ball, clothes etc and pursue the American Dream...
Adults are accountable for the risks associated with whatever choices they make and most of the shit we like to do comes with risk. Most adult men are smart enough to know the dangers of making his "date" a cum dumpster for the weekend. If they aren't, well then stupid hurts.
I'd like them to at least abide by the same health codes as the guy handling my french fries. And you run a similar risk picking up unknowns at clubs and bars.
Magic_Salad0892
03-15-13, 19:24
I'd like them to at least abide by the same health codes as the guy handling my french fries. And you run a similar risk picking up unknowns at clubs and bars.
Agreed. The restriction/benifit meter hits the right place on that problem, so health codes, and STD check ups are pretty much a good thing.
Legalize it and find the sweet-spot between regulation and market incentives that will ensure quality and safety because of competition.
Consenting adults have the right to use their bodies as they see fit, and to be left the hell alone about it.
No, one is done under the sanctity of perpetuating society and nation. It's MORAL, by definition.
There is no such thing as universal morality, there is what is called political correctness. There was a time when prostitution was perfectly acceptable in society and for many women it was their lively hood and nothing to be ashamed of.
As far as
Prostitution perpetuates immorality, disease and undermines all that marriage supports.
How can what other people choose to do with their life undermine anything that you want to do with yours? Is it the temptation? It would be like banning alcohol because you're an alcoholic and it undermines your sobriety. You are the only one responsible for YOUR morality.
Legalize drugs? Go to the ghettoes and trailer parks for a look see.
Consequences are a bitch huh? Catch my drift... People make choices and are accountable for the consequences that come with them. Pretty soon they figure out that cocaine is a hell of a drug.
Five_Point_Five_Six
03-15-13, 19:44
Sacramento, CA doesn't get a lot of attention because it doesn't have the highest murder rate or anything, but it's surrounded by counties that have rediculously high drug related crimes, and prostitution.
Sounds like here. Low murder rate, lots of property crimes, which are most of the time addiction related.
Making something illegal doesn't stop someone from doing it.
Magic_Salad0892
03-15-13, 19:51
Making something illegal doesn't stop someone from doing it.
By that logic there's no reason to have ANY laws. Making it illegal does stop a large amount of people. Proof? Marijuana is illegal. This is why I don't smoke it. Would I smoke it if it was legal? Yes. Would I own a post '86 M16 if it was legal? Absolutely. And grenades.
The problem is the smaller, but more potent percentage of people who do not care, and legalization disempowers them.
You drive it underground and that is what you get.
Yes, it is a waste of time and effort.
---
Bingo. Make it legal. Make pimps illegal. Make health care like Costa Rica.
Five_Point_Five_Six
03-15-13, 19:55
By that logic there's no reason to have ANY laws. Making it illegal does stop a large amount of people. Proof? Marijuana is illegal. This is why I don't smoke it. Would I smoke it if it was legal? Yes. Would I own a post '86 M16 if it was legal? Absolutely. And grenades.
The problem is the smaller, but more potent percentage of people who do not care, and legalization disempowers them.
Move to WA, you can be a pothead here all you want. :sarcastic:
I didn't say that everything under the sun should be legal, but I should have rephrased that, making something illegal doesn't mean that people won't still do it. Drugs are an example of that. People who think coke, meth, and crack are a good idea will likely use it regardless of consequence.
By that logic there's no reason to have ANY laws.
You can do better than a straw argument.
Magic_Salad0892
03-15-13, 19:57
Move to WA, you can be a pothead here all you want. :sarcastic:
SBRs > Overpriced pot. :lol:
Belmont31R
03-15-13, 19:57
Sounds like here. Low murder rate, lots of property crimes, which are most of the time addiction related.
Making something illegal doesn't stop someone from doing it.
We had a public speaker back in HS, and he had a great point. You are free to do whatever you want but not free from consequence. Rules and laws are punishment not prevention.
On my own point a lot of laws have negative consequences. Pushing human activity, which has been going on for eons, into the side streets, alleys, and criminal world generally do not help. Prostitution is known as the oldest profession, and making it illegal is not going to stop this. It is true prostitutes in America are treated badly, and many of them are drug addicts. You don't see that in other places where its legal and regulated.
Magic_Salad0892
03-15-13, 19:58
You can do better than a straw argument.
I was relating an absolute statement, to an absolute statement. There was no argument, much less a straw argument.
Alaskapopo
03-15-13, 20:02
The main opponents to legalized prositution in my opinion would have to be womens groups. It would lower the pull women have on men to a degree. No longer would you have to go through all the games and expense of longer term relationships and dating just to get some. Just pay your money and be done with it until next time.
Just a theory.
Pat
Magic_Salad0892
03-15-13, 20:07
The main opponents to legalized prositution in my opinion would have to be womens groups. It would lower the pull women have on men to a degree. No longer would you have to go through all the games and expense of longer term relationships and dating just to get some. Just pay your money and be done with it until next time.
Just a theory.
Pat
It's possible.
Five_Point_Five_Six
03-15-13, 20:07
SBRs > Overpriced pot. :lol:
Yes, as someone not even remotely interested in pot, I would love to be able to have an SBR.
Giving it away, legal.
Renting, illegal.
Long term lease, legal.
Out right purchase, legal.
I don't understand why the law has issues with renting.
ForTehNguyen
03-15-13, 20:19
legalize it
Belmont31R
03-15-13, 20:31
The main opponents to legalized prositution in my opinion would have to be womens groups. It would lower the pull women have on men to a degree. No longer would you have to go through all the games and expense of longer term relationships and dating just to get some. Just pay your money and be done with it until next time.
Just a theory.
Pat
That is most likely an accurate statement.
thopkins22
03-15-13, 20:57
The main opponents to legalized prositution in my opinion would have to be womens groups. It would lower the pull women have on men to a degree. No longer would you have to go through all the games and expense of longer term relationships and dating just to get some. Just pay your money and be done with it until next time.
Just a theory.
Pat
If you'll watch the prostitution debate that Intelligence Squared hosted(I whole heartedly recommend all of their debates...great debaters and a real and fair debate) the main opponents were feminists.
You're on point here. :eek:
Cagemonkey
03-15-13, 21:28
The main opponents to legalized prositution in my opinion would have to be womens groups. It would lower the pull women have on men to a degree. No longer would you have to go through all the games and expense of longer term relationships and dating just to get some. Just pay your money and be done with it until next time.
Just a theory.
PatI agree.
Prostitution will never be illeminated from American society. It is combatted at the local level with Police stings, yet continues unabated. Although there are the stereotypical ladies of the night in the seedier parts of town, like everything else in life there is a wide spectrum. The former madam Heidi Fleiss's business and several other high profile prostitution rings have demonstrated the wide spectrum of clientele.
Although, I agree there could be consequences to utilizing such services as someone else said, you take your chances and have to live with the decisions you make.
As for the morality, if two consenting adults choose to engage in sex, behind closed doors, that's their business.
My father used to have a saying, "son having a woman costs money". I couldn't agree more, especially with a high maintenance girlfriend. After 5 years with the last one, I could have bought a BMW and a few ARs between the jewelry and other stuff.
So, if the politicians decide to legalize prostitution and men decide to partake, then that is their perogative.
The only problem I see with the trade is where human sex trafficking is occurring. Or the women are forced into the business by another person.
Gang bangers in Oakland, CA recruiting young teen-aged girls and forcing them into sex acts by coercion or addicting them to drugs. This area of prostitution is where enforcement and prosecution should be focused. Where the transaction is neither consensual or committed between two adults.
The only problem I see with the trade is where human sex trafficking is occurring. Or the women are forced into the business by another person.
Gang bangers in Oakland, CA recruiting young teen-aged girls and forcing them into sex acts by coercion or addicting them to drugs. This area of prostitution is where enforcement and prosecution should be focused. Where the transaction is neither consensual or committed between two adults.
This. They should be castrated with a rusty fork IMO. :mad:
Put me in the category of Legalize, regulate, tax.
ThirdWatcher
03-16-13, 03:47
I think the world would be better off if it were legal and regulated (checks ups for STDs etc)
Pat
I concur. It was this way in a foreign country I served in a long time ago and it worked out very well for all involved.
Anyone ever watch that show Penn & Teller: Bulllshit? I remember they had an episode about prostitution that had some good arguements similiar to the ones in here. It was an ok show. The best part though was pretty much every episode had naked women. :alcoholic:
Anyone ever watch that show Penn & Teller: Bulllshit? I remember they had an episode about prostitution that had some good arguements similiar to the ones in here. It was an ok show. The best part though was pretty much every episode had naked women. :alcoholic:
Their 2A episode was right on point.
It was a good show, watched all like 7 seasons or so. Penn is awesome.
Guns perpetuate violence too, right?
And before you throw the "go the the ghettoes, and trailer parks" line at me as well... I grew up in them. I saw drugs, and prostitution. I grew up around that shit. Sacramento, CA doesn't get a lot of attention because it doesn't have the highest murder rate or anything, but it's surrounded by counties that have rediculously high drug related crimes, and prostitution.
If they were made legal, then criminals wouldn't be the ones profiting. It's be law abiding family men/women, with "exotic" businesses. I mean, there's a woman who's made a career on selling VIRTUAL prostitutes (Google Second Life) and that's apperantly legal.
Your "and guns cause violence?" response is sophomoric.
Is profit the ONLY concern here? Is that all you see?
What of THE LIVES OF THE PEOPLE? Do they not matter? What of the quality of life of the people caught up in drugs and prostitution? I guess they don't count for much (to use an equally sophomoric argument) because you are so beyond them.
If morals and ethics don't matter anymore we've lost this nation. You're wasting your time "resisting".
Five_Point_Five_Six
03-16-13, 08:21
If morals and ethics don't matter anymore we've lost this nation. You're wasting your time "resisting".
Morals and ethics certainly do matter, not all things that are wrong morally or ethically should be illegal.
FChen17213
03-16-13, 13:14
Between two consenting adults, if it's an arms length bargained for exchange, what's the big deal? Definitely should be legal. With the massively declining marriage and birthrates in America, this should be encouraged. Never have we had so many elder and middle aged men and women living alone these days. Prostitution and gigolotion (not even sure if that is a real word) can provide many people a legal venue to satisfy their needs and desires legally. It is almost cruel when you tell an unmarried 45 year old man that he must watch porn and play with himself just to attempt to satisfy his urges because it's illegal to go pay for sex.
MountainRaven
03-16-13, 13:46
Your "and guns cause violence?" response is sophomoric.
Is profit the ONLY concern here? Is that all you see?
What of THE LIVES OF THE PEOPLE? Do they not matter? What of the quality of life of the people caught up in drugs and prostitution? I guess they don't count for much (to use an equally sophomoric argument) because you are so beyond them.
If morals and ethics don't matter anymore we've lost this nation. You're wasting your time "resisting".
Mary Magdalene was a prostitute and she went on to become a church leader and the daughter-in-law of a god. :p
Seriously though, the primary reason your life might be destroyed as a result of drugs or prostitution is if you're caught or because the criminals who supply your vices decide to destroy you.
A woman lawfully employed as a prostitute would have no trouble finding a job in another field, unless the potential employer finds prostitution distasteful (a Christian-In-Name-Only, or ChINO). A woman who is arrested, charged, and convicted of being a prostitute: What future does she have? Who is going to hire a woman arrested for being a prostitute? She gets let back out into the same community, cannot get an honest job, and eventually goes back to working the same thing she did before, because it's the only thing she can do any more.
Same thing with drugs. There are many people who are perfectly functional with drugs. But get caught once and then you get thrown into our lovely high-recidivism, high-incarceration rate prison system: Where we take in harmless stoners and spew out violent, hardened career criminals!
In any case, it should say something that the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave has the highest incarceration rate in the world (higher than Putin's demi-fascist Russia). And that we have more people in prison than the People's Republic of China does with over a billion fewer people.
If morals and ethics don't matter anymore we've lost this nation. You're wasting your time "resisting".
What do morals and ethics have to do with legal/illegal?
--
theblackknight
03-16-13, 14:38
Your "and guns cause violence?" response is sophomoric.
Is profit the ONLY concern here? Is that all you see?
What of THE LIVES OF THE PEOPLE? Do they not matter? What of the quality of life of the people caught up in drugs and prostitution? I guess they don't count for much (to use an equally sophomoric argument) because you are so beyond them.
If morals and ethics don't matter anymore we've lost this nation. You're wasting your time "resisting".
I actually agree that the lives of those people dont matter as much, and as someone who had a family member almost die from drugs who is now a traveling carnie and never see's his kids, I can say that, even tho I would have said it any ****ing ways.
The whole participation trophy idea that everyone is special and has intrinsic value is bullshit. Some people are just D+ people at best and we are doing a disservice to them by telling them otherwise. Anyone who gets involved with self destructive behavior is welcoming whatever bad fortune comes their way. I only wish that fate would come swifter before they have too much time to procreate. May Darwin be swift
sent from mah gun,using my sights
Alaskapopo
03-16-13, 14:47
Your "and guns cause violence?" response is sophomoric.
Is profit the ONLY concern here? Is that all you see?
What of THE LIVES OF THE PEOPLE? Do they not matter? What of the quality of life of the people caught up in drugs and prostitution? I guess they don't count for much (to use an equally sophomoric argument) because you are so beyond them.
If morals and ethics don't matter anymore we've lost this nation. You're wasting your time "resisting".
I respect yoru views however your over looking the fact that what makes prostitution dangerous and drug ridden is the fact its illegal. Organized crime controls it. If it were legal you would not have the same levels of drug abuse and violence same as when when had prohibition against alcohol. Rather its moral or not is another topic. If your married your paying for it to just over a much longer period with a very hefty fine for breaking the contract early.
My main thing is combating human trafficking and crime. Legalizing and regulating prostitution allows Johns to go legit and do things legally. When they patronize legit businesses, criminals essentially lose market share and go out of business.
Look at Nevada.
Look at prohibition.
Look at the war on drugs
It's the same shit. Making things illegal gives criminals a market in which they can provide a service via shady and dangerous business practices. Legalizing those things allows safety regulation and oversight. Yes there will still be some illegal prostitution (probably involving underage girls), but it will be vastly reduced.
And it means they pay taxes and aren't leeching the system.
So to recap, legalization:
Protects the girls
Protects the customers
Reduces crime
Provides more income for the government
This is one of those things in which I cannot think of any down side. I don't buy the argument from morality; what goes on between two consenting adults is their business.
It's immoral whether anyone chooses to agree or not. Disease is part of the game; it's inevitable with someone having sex with 100 different persons per week for weeks on end. What of the psychological health of the prostitute? Would it really not be better to follow the damned Constitution and Bill of Rights and act as if we truly cared and bring manufacturing back stateside and actually provide EDUCATION (which includes morality)?
Apparently, it is too much to ask. We eliminate the petty criminal and give that AUTHORITY to the same bastards that shit on all of us daily. Yeah, the irony is as thick as thieves...
Alaskapopo
03-16-13, 15:30
It's immoral whether anyone chooses to agree or not. Disease is part of the game; it's inevitable with someone having sex with 100 different persons per week for weeks on end. What of the psychological health of the prostitute? Would it really not be better to follow the damned Constitution and Bill of Rights and act as if we truly cared and bring manufacturing back stateside and actually provide EDUCATION (which includes morality)?
Apparently, it is too much to ask. We eliminate the petty criminal and give that AUTHORITY to the same bastards that shit on all of us daily. Yeah, the irony is as thick as thieves...
Whose morality. I have a problem personally with people trying to push their religious views off on other people. If I were a parent I would not want my kids to have someone else version of a religious morality pushed on them in school. I believe in a separation of church and state.
Pat
It's immoral whether anyone chooses to agree or not.
Here we go again. :rolleyes:
Disease is part of the game; it's inevitable with someone having sex with 100 different persons per week for weeks on end.
Look at Nevada. But here, I'll do research for you.
"Sexually transmitted infection rates among legal prostitutes are negligible because brothel workers in Nevada are required by state law to use condoms and are tested weekly for disease. Since those rules went into effect in Nevada, there have been no cases of HIV infection, and their infection rates were negligible."
http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/std/docs/afi/KerndtAFISTD.pdf
What of the psychological health of the prostitute?
What of the psychological health of porn stars?
What of the psychological health of soldiers in combat?
What of the psychological health of those who obsessively collect guns?
What of the psychological health of those who drink alcohol?
What of the psychological health of the very religious?
You could go on and on. What you do changes you, period. If it's legalized, than being a prostitute is more likely to be a choice than to be forced. That's the best we can do.
Would it really not be better to follow the damned Constitution and Bill of Rights and act as if we truly cared and bring manufacturing back stateside and actually provide EDUCATION (which includes morality)?
Um.. what? Manufacturing? We talking about Real Dolls now?
Moose-Knuckle
03-16-13, 20:12
Whose morality. I have a problem personally with people trying to push their religious views off on other people.
Pat
I didn't see him say anything about religion. But since you brought it up and I think that it is only inevitable that someone was going to bring up the topic in such a discussion . . .
I’m not a religious person myself, so permit me to pose a philosophical question while we are on the matter.
If there is no moral or immoral, good vs. evil, Ying & Yang, God and the Devil, insert whatever here then who says what is legal and illegal, right and wrong? Where does one draw upon then to get their bearings so to speak of how to conduct themselves? Our recorded history is rampant with examples of what happens to “great” civilizations time and again. They are never over taken and destroyed by outside forces rather they always decay and die slowly from within as their society opens the sewer pipes and debase their culture.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under
the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist
program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without
knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Thomas)
Exactly, Moose Knuckle.
I'm not religious but I strive to lead a moral life.
Apparently, many cannot see that the two are not synonymous.
Nothing should be illegal to purchase or lease or trade if it is legal to be freely given.
It is perfectly legal for consenting adult strangers to meet in a bar and **** but only becomes illegal when money changes hands.
There is no way to morally or otherwise argue that such a juxtaposition is valid.
Alaskapopo
03-16-13, 20:25
I didn't see him say anything about religion. But since you brought it up and I think that it is only inevitable that someone was going to bring up the topic in such a discussion . . .
I’m not a religious person myself, so permit me to pose a philosophical question while we are on the matter.
If there is no moral or immoral, good vs. evil, Ying & Yang, God and the Devil, insert whatever here then who says what is legal and illegal, right and wrong? Where does one draw upon then to get their bearings so to speak of how to conduct themselves? Our recorded history is rampant with examples of what happens to “great” civilizations time and again. They are never over taken and destroyed by outside forces rather they always decay and die slowly from within as their society opens the sewer pipes and debase their culture.
I am not saying moral standards are bad but whose standards do we go by. We have people that think owning guns are immoral.
Pat
theblackknight
03-16-13, 20:28
The state should not be in charge of saving people from themselves.
I am not saying moral standards are bad but whose standards do we go by. We have people that think owning guns are immoral.
Pat
Always err to the side of individual liberty.
As long as your actions do not trespass on another's liberty, it should not be illegal.
If there is no moral or immoral, good vs. evil, Ying & Yang, God and the Devil, insert whatever here then who says what is legal and illegal, right and wrong? Where does one draw upon then to get their bearings so to speak of how to conduct themselves?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aCRHjH6d4Q
We, as a society, say what is right and wrong.
Moose-Knuckle
03-16-13, 21:18
I am not saying moral standards are bad but whose standards do we go by. We have people that think owning guns are immoral.
Pat
Exactly my point.
Where do we get our standards from?
Our current judicial system (as with other Commonwealth nations and former colonies) is based upon Judea-Christian principles. If we legalize marijuana and prostitution what do we legalize next? Where do we draw the line? After all in some nations it’s permissible to openly engage in pedophilia.
Moose-Knuckle
03-16-13, 21:25
The state should not be in charge of saving people from themselves.
While I agree with you, why do we have laws to begin with? The state has so many laws in place that "protect" people as it is, take the seat belt law for an example? Do we really need a law telling people they should wear one when we all know that your chances of surviving an automobile accident goes up exponentially when you where one? Everyone knows smoking cigarettes is bad for your health but it is your right (as it should be) to smoke a carton a day if you so choose to.
I'm just playing the devil's advocate here.
MountainRaven
03-16-13, 21:31
Exactly my point.
Where do we get our standards from?
Our current judicial system (as with other Commonwealth nations and former colonies) is based upon Judea-Christian principles. If we legalize marijuana and prostitution what do we legalize next? Where do we draw the line? After all in some nations it’s permissible to openly engage in pedophilia.
Trial by jury is a product of our Pagan ancestors and not of Judeo-Christian teachings.
ETA: Our mores are, generally, Judeo-Christian. But they are imposed on a society that is fundamentally still Pagan.
Alaskapopo
03-16-13, 21:32
Exactly my point.
Where do we get our standards from?
Our current judicial system (as with other Commonwealth nations and former colonies) is based upon Judea-Christian principles. If we legalize marijuana and prostitution what do we legalize next? Where do we draw the line? After all in some nations it’s permissible to openly engage in pedophilia.
With marijuana I feel we waste too much money trying to fight it vs. the harm it causes society. Basically its not worth it and the victims of this crime are the users. With Prostituion there is no victim so long as both parties agree.
Pat
Alaskapopo
03-16-13, 21:33
Trial by jury is a product of our Pagan ancestors and not of Judeo-Christian teachings.
I did not know that. Pretty cool information.
Pat
MountainRaven
03-16-13, 21:44
I did not know that. Pretty cool information.
Pat
Trial by jury was common in ancient Greece and Rome and pre-Christian Scandinavia. In fact, the number of jurors we have in modern jury trials is unaltered from the number used by - ahem - Vikings. When Christianity became the dominant religion in the late (Western) Roman Empire (and indeed through out the early Medieval period) it simply usurped the old Pagan traditions, including trial by jury. Pagan Winter Solstice celebrations became Christmas, Spring Equinox celebrations became Easter (and then, of course, there is May Day, which is blatantly Pagan but still practiced throughout Christendom, less the Americas), &c.
There's good reason why most Christians have to look up what 'Yom Kippur' is and don't know when, exactly, Hanukkah is celebrated. And from every piece of evidence we have, Christ was almost certainly not born in Winter, let alone on the shortest day of the year. For a people who claim to have a religion that's based off of Judaism, we share almost no religious holidays (Holy Days), or any other social, cultural, or political ties, with historical Jewish states.
ETA: Probably the only reason why Christianity is not the world religion is because five Centuries after subverting Pagan beliefs and rituals, Catholicism decided to lock into its set of beliefs and traditions. Had they remained as fluid in the 16th Century as they had in the 6th, it is probable that we would have had more Chinese Popes than European over the last several centuries.
ETA2: And, while engaging in due diligence, I found a book titled 'Bible Law vs. the US Constitution: A Christian Perspective' (meaning, the Constitution is flawed and we should impose Christian Shari'a law) which states on the 'buy me!' page that it includes an argument against trial by jury.
Moose-Knuckle
03-16-13, 21:49
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aCRHjH6d4Q
We, as a society, say what is right and wrong.
That was an interesting video, I especially liked at 1:11 where he stated, “. . . based upon almost an intelligent design”. :p
Moose-Knuckle
03-16-13, 21:53
Trial by jury is a product of our Pagan ancestors and not of Judeo-Christian teachings.
ETA: Our mores are, generally, Judeo-Christian. But they are imposed on a society that is fundamentally still Pagan.
Trial by jury really has nothing to do with why we have the laws that we do and do not have.
Laws have everything to do with those that write them.
MountainRaven
03-16-13, 22:01
Trial by jury really has nothing to do with why we have the laws that we do and do not have.
And we have the laws that we have because we are a smorgasbord of Jews, Puritans, Catholics, and other Protestants. Plus 5% aboriginal animism. (Plus a century or more of Islam, Buddhism, Confucianism, and neo-paganism.) All flavored by our Founding Fathers' desire to bring back the civic virtue of the pre-Christian Romans and Greeks and built upon the foundations of a millennium of Christo-Pagan English Common Law.
Moose-Knuckle
03-16-13, 22:03
With marijuana I feel we waste too much money trying to fight it vs. the harm it causes society. Basically its not worth it and the victims of this crime are the users. With Prostituion there is no victim so long as both parties agree.
Pat
I agree with you on both accounts so long as the prostitutes are actual willing and wanting to engage such an occupation as they would assume the hazards. But we won't be stopping at weed and hookers.
Magic_Salad0892
03-17-13, 00:03
Your "and guns cause violence?" response is sophomoric.
Tell me exactly how it doesn't fit in with what you were saying.
Is profit the ONLY concern here? Is that all you see?
Kind of. Actually. Profit is the driving factor behind most crime. I cannot think of a single downside of this. Just because you're offended, or think it's immoral, doesn't make it so. Everybody has a differen't opinion. Don't like hookers? Don't buy one. And certainly don't move to Clear, NV.
What of THE LIVES OF THE PEOPLE? Do they not matter? What of the quality of life of the people caught up in drugs and prostitution? I guess they don't count for much (to use an equally sophomoric argument) because you are so beyond them.
If it's legalized, then it'll be easier to get out of prostitution, or drugs, so that argument doesn't really hold water the same way. I bet people said the same shit about alchohol back during prohibition. But to be honest, some people really are incapable of leading a valuable life.
If morals and ethics don't matter anymore we've lost this nation. You're wasting your time "resisting".
I believe buying a prostitute is immoral. For me. Despite what I said earlier. Lol. Other people may not share that opinion. I cannot make decisions for them.
I believe buying a prostitute is immoral. For me. Despite what I said earlier. Lol. Other people may not share that opinion. I cannot make decisions for them.
I don't think morality is relative.
Having said that, I don't think it is the responsibility of the government to force us to be moral.
Laws should be set to prohibit one person purposefully harming another, and protection of property rights, and minimalist things like that.
Morality should be discussed both in public and private, and through persuasion outside of government. There should be a healthy discourse and debate on morality.
Unfortunately, today, we cannot do that (each side is intolerant of the other) and we try and force our understanding on morality (or that morality is not important or relative) through the force of government and the law.
---
Magic_Salad0892
03-17-13, 02:10
I don't think morality is relative.
Having said that, I don't think it is the responsibility of the government to force us to be moral.
Laws should be set to prohibit one person purposefully harming another, and protection of property rights, and minimalist things like that.
Morality should be discussed both in public and private, and through persuasion outside of government. There should be a healthy discourse and debate on morality.
Unfortunately, today, we cannot do that (each side is intolerant of the other) and we try and force our understanding on morality (or that morality is not important or relative) through the force of government and the law.
---
Duly noted and I agree. But if they're not hurting anybody, then I don't get to choose what's immoral for them.
Don't you think this speaks of a larger problem when intelligent discourse is hampered by intolerance? Maybe our problems are more deeply rooted than anyone wants to admit.
On this board are more knowledgeable people than I can shake a stick at, but sometimes I hear more bickering than a window licking contest with no judge.
So... What to do? Pointers for proper discussion? Points made without belittling or insults?
Please more feedback.
That was an interesting video, I especially liked at 1:11 where he stated, “. . . based upon almost an intelligent design”. :p
Yeah, he's like "im going to hate myself later, but I will say it anyway". But the point is that we as a society craft our morals from our diverse backgrounds and the goals for our society as a whole. We have a lot of morals now that we didn't 2000 yrs ago and we don't have a lot that we did 2000 yrs ago. Things change as our understanding of ourselves evolves.
I mean we're still struggling as a society to let people be themselves and be happy as long as they don't harm others (without permission). A decade or two from now, we'll look back and wonder why we were so intolerant. But by then, there will be another issue that divides the country. And another, and another.
ThirdWatcher
03-17-13, 19:07
... A decade or two from now, we'll look back and wonder why we were so intolerant...
I've already thought this... the more I've matured, the more tolerant (and libertarian) I've become... life is sure a lot easier that way.
It's immoral whether anyone chooses to agree or not. Disease is part of the game; it's inevitable with someone having sex with 100 different persons per week for weeks on end. What of the psychological health of the prostitute? Would it really not be better to follow the damned Constitution and Bill of Rights and act as if we truly cared and bring manufacturing back stateside and actually provide EDUCATION (which includes morality)?
Apparently, it is too much to ask. We eliminate the petty criminal and give that AUTHORITY to the same bastards that shit on all of us daily. Yeah, the irony is as thick as thieves...
Simply put, morality should be a matter for the church and non-governmental leaders of your community. When your morality trespasses on the liberty of others, it is oppressive. Only those sins which trespass upon another should be a crime. :(
CarlosDJackal
03-17-13, 21:39
You drive it underground and that is what you get.
Yes, it is a waste of time and effort.
---
Go to a country where prostitution is legal. If you know what to look for, you will find the "workers" who are there against their will. Prostitution, whether legal or not, is the primary customer of Human Trafficking. And that's a fact. Hundreds and maybe even thousands of girls are kidnapped in the United States alone and trafficked to feed prostitution in countries to include those who have legalized prostitution.
Legalizing a "business" does not automatically makes things better. The mob has been involved in legal businesses for decades. Those businesses are built upon the corpses of murdered, legitimate businessmen and hard working individuals.
If you ever talk to drug dealers, ask them what they would do if the drug trade was legalized. The ones I have asked told me they would not change a thing. They would still conduct business "as usual". Meaning they would still sell drugs illegally because they don't want to "go legit".
So how many pimps do you think would actually roll over and pay the registration fee as well as the inevitable Health Insurance of their workers if prostitution was legalized? Just saying.
FChen17213
03-17-13, 22:24
Just like I would tell anti-gunners, LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE! At least as much as possible. As long as they are not directly hurting others, leave them alone. Your morals are not other people's morals. Believe me. They feel just as right and just as strongly about their values as you do.
If two consenting adults want to pay for sex, let them. If they want to do it for free, let them. As for human trafficking? That's kidnapping people against their will and forcing them into slavery. Way different and more heinous crimes. To say that prostitution goes hand in hand with human trafficking is like saying drugs and guns go hand and hand. Sure, it can, but just because one is illegal and doesn't serve much of a legitimate purpose doesn't mean the other should be banned as well.
As far as drawing a line? For those people who say that this will lead to pedophilia, dendrophilia (sex with plants), and zoophilia? I don't buy much into that. Why is pedophilia banned? It is horrific because the child cannot consent and does not have the mental capacity to give consent. The law is to protect
the child, not impose some restriction on what turns on the adult. I repeat. The law is there to protect
the children and the vulnerable. That is why our Supreme Court has consistently ruled that child porn
cartoons and toys where no actual kids are involved or harmed CANNOT be banned. Same thing with laws against zoophilia. The laws were set to protect our animals and pets. The poor Golden Retriever only has the mental capacity of a child. He or she CANNOT give meaningful consent to a person. It is very damaging and harmful to the animal. That is why pedophilia and zoophilia are such HEINOUS HORRIFIC crimes that our society doesn't tolerate. Prostitution between consenting adults is way way different.
Ok, so then some people will argue that this will lead to polygamy and other strange practices. I say that polygamy got a horrible reputation because it has historically been related to some dude marrying 13 year olds in some tiny village. Once again, it was a forced marriage involving a minor. The horrible part is the lack of consent, the age of the victim, etc. That's why the guy should go to prison. Now if polygamy really involved multiple consenting adults over 21 who full well knew what they were doing? I say, "let them." Although strange, what right do I have imposing my moral values on them? Same thing with homosexuality. Just mind your own business. I might personally dislike and disapprove of such behavior, but I really couldn't care less what two consenting adults want to do in their bedroom. Lawrence v Texas.
I can't stand liberals who want to impose their will on us and want to take our guns away. I also can't stand conservatives who want to take away porn, adult entertainment, and impose their religious morals on the rest of the world. As Ted Nugent said, "leave us alone!!!"
Go to a country where prostitution is legal. If you know what to look for, you will find the "workers" who are there against their will. Prostitution, whether legal or not, is the primary customer of Human Trafficking. And that's a fact. Hundreds and maybe even thousands of girls are kidnapped in the United States alone and trafficked to feed prostitution in countries to include those who have legalized prostitution.
I've been to several countries where prostitution is legal.
There are some that run under the radar and operate outside of the laws. However, that is the exception, not the rule.
Legalizing a "business" does not automatically makes things better. The mob has been involved in legal businesses for decades. Those businesses are built upon the corpses of murdered, legitimate businessmen and hard working individuals.
and your point?
If you ever talk to drug dealers, ask them what they would do if the drug trade was legalized. The ones I have asked told me they would not change a thing. They would still conduct business "as usual". Meaning they would still sell drugs illegally because they don't want to "go legit".
until it no longer became worth it because the price and profits dropped.
So how many pimps do you think would actually roll over and pay the registration fee as well as the inevitable Health Insurance of their workers if prostitution was legalized? Just saying.
There would be some attempting to work outside the law, and their would still be a need to police that. However, I would bet that most prostitution would happen within the law, if for no other reason, the risk for the customer would be much less, so most customers would go the legit route.
Many other places in the world have already gone down this route, and while it is not perfect and there are still problems, you don't find the amount of problems and abuse as you find in places like the US where it is basically 100% verboten (not including a few counties in NV)
Just because a solution does not 100% solve the problem, does not mean it is a bad solution.
-
I can't stand liberals who want to impose their will on us and want to take our guns away. I also can't stand conservatives who want to take away porn, adult entertainment, and impose their religious morals on the rest of the world. As Ted Nugent said, "leave us alone!!!"
I pretty much agree with this from a government perspective. Don't use government to try and make other people live like you think they should.
(I however, do think that it is perfectly fine for me to preach/debate/publicize my personal views on how others should live as long as I am not trying to use (advocate, convince to vote for, etc) the force of government to enact that behavior change, and the people I am directing that at have just as much a right to tell me how great it is, ignore me, whatever. In other words, there is a difference between debating it or preaching about or otherwise trying to convince people to give up practices I think are bad and me trying to force other people through the law to do so).
----
I've been to several countries where prostitution is legal.
There are some that run under the radar and operate outside of the laws. However, that is the exception, not the rule.
and your point?
until it no longer became worth it because the price and profits dropped.
There would be some attempting to work outside the law, and their would still be a need to police that. However, I would bet that most prostitution would happen within the law, if for no other reason, the risk for the customer would be much less, so most customers would go the legit route.
Many other places in the world have already gone down this route, and while it is not perfect and there are still problems, you don't find the amount of problems and abuse as you find in places like the US where it is basically 100% verboten (not including a few counties in NV)
Just because a solution does not 100% solve the problem, does not mean it is a bad solution.
-
I call it the Ra's Al Ghul method - defeat crime with economics.
As a customer, I would prefer to do things legally than illegally. That's why I watch Netflix instead of torrenting movies, for example. I have never hired a prostitute and don't think I ever will, and I'm in Nevada at least 3 times a year where it's legal. But, if I were a John, I'd go the legal route because frankly I don't want to go to jail and I'd rather not support human trafficking. The vast majority of people are the same way. So if it was legalized, legitimate regulated brothels would push illegal brothels and pimps out of business. A few might survive by cutting prices and offering illegal services like no-condoms and underage girls, but those exist now. And we could use the revenue from taxed brothels to further combat illegal prostitution and trafficking.
Economics is awesome. Ra's Al Ghul was a good man.
But, if I were a John, I'd go the legal route because frankly I don't want to go to jail and I'd rather not support human trafficking. The vast majority of people are the same way.
Not to mention, probably a lot more hygienic and healthy as well to go the legal route. [most legal prostitution systems have strict health codes, inspections, and requirements]
And
While there are problems in the adult film industry, it is a legal sex industry with strict requirements, so you see that most adult films being professionally produced [not some amateur guy with his GF or wife] are doing so in the legal market, following the rules, laws, and regulations. It works out much better than the illegal black market would if adult films were illegal. While not exactly the same as prostitution, there are parallels.
--
I pretty much agree with this from a government perspective. Don't use government to try and make other people live like you think they should.
(I however, do think that it is perfectly fine for me to preach/debate/publicize my personal views on how others should live as long as I am not trying to use (advocate, convince to vote for, etc) the force of government to enact that behavior change, and the people I am directing that at have just as much a right to tell me how great it is, ignore me, whatever. In other words, there is a difference between debating it or preaching about or otherwise trying to convince people to give up practices I think are bad and me trying to force other people through the law to do so).
----
Exactly. I disagree with you on many religious matters, I think that's obvious from other threads. But I am very happy that you have the right as an individual to not only have a different point of view (even if it's wrong :p ), but also the ability to talk and debate about it openly and freely without fear of retribution from the government. Governments shouldn't push one set of beliefs on all the people unless there is at least a majority consensus, but that's not always enough of a reason. This is, essentially, the entire point of the first amendment; to be free from prosecution due to your beliefs and have the ability to discuss it with others.
Not to mention, probably a lot more hygienic and healthy as well to go the legal route. [most legal prostitution systems have strict health codes, inspections, and requirements]
And
While there are problems in the adult film industry, it is a legal sex industry with strict requirements, so you see that most adult films being professionally produced [not some amateur guy with his GF or wife] are doing so in the legal market, following the rules, laws, and regulations. It works out much better than the illegal black market would if adult films were illegal. While not exactly the same as prostitution, there are parallels.
--
NV sex workers are required to get monthly STI checks and condoms are required for their protection. Safety is definitely better in legal brothels, and you don't have to worry as much about getting ripped off in some shady alley or waking up in a bathtub of ice without one of your kidneys.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-18-13, 04:07
Marriage has been reduced to a business contract. With all these laws and rulings on gay partnerships, it is only a matter time that we shift from a MF pattern to a MM and FF mode and then there is no real reason that MMF and FFM should be illegal. Prositution then just becomes a short term contract. It is inevetiable.
The good news is that I see a way around inheretence taxes....
Making porn movies isn't legal in most states, so before you start casting calls in the local penny saver thinking you can make your own "Hotel Mi Casa" series, check your local laws
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-18-13, 04:09
NV sex workers are required to get monthly STI checks and ....
They really need to work on their extactors and the mag springs get funky trying to push all those rounds thru the neck of a 1911 single stack magazine. I might become a male whore if I got free 2011 gunsmithing....
Marriage has been reduced to a business contract. With all these laws and rulings on gay partnerships, it is only a matter time that we shift from a MF pattern to a MM and FF mode and then there is no real reason that MMF and FFM should be illegal. Prositution then just becomes a short term contract. It is inevetiable.
The good news is that I see a way around inheretence taxes....
Making porn movies isn't legal in most states, so before you start casting calls in the local penny saver thinking you can make your own "Hotel Mi Casa" series, check your local laws
Porn is considered protected speech by the 1st amendment. It would be illegal to ban production.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-18-13, 05:02
Porn is considered protected speech by the 1st amendment. It would be illegal to ban production.
My understanding was that porn was made in California, besides an interesting Porter cluster study, was because they had the state laws set up to allow porn to be made. When cali passed the condom law for porn, I heard the Nevada with its prositution laws was the next logical place. Maybe other state laws have changed recently.
My understanding was that porn was made in California, besides an interesting Porter cluster study, was because they had the state laws set up to allow porn to be made. When cali passed the condom law for porn, I heard the Nevada with its prositution laws was the next logical place. Maybe other state laws have changed recently.
Movies are made in Cali too, but that doesn't mean they can't be made elsewhere. The porn industry, from what I gather, grew up in Cali so that's where it stays for the most part, but it's not illegal in other states. Or if it is, it could be challenged and the law overturned.
In Poland prostitution is legal (and free from income tax), however it is illegal to have profits from prostituting other person. It is legal to use services of prostitute.
It works basically in 4 options:
1) Road hookers, usually from poor ex-soviet countries, mainly target truck drivers, usually managed by mob from their country of origin, but also street hookers in big cities - generally avoid both.
2) Regular "brothels", called "escort agency" to go around "no profit" law, usually run by Polish businessmen who need to be on good terms with both Police and "The City". This also dubs as strip clubs. Mix of local and foreign girls.
3) "Houses" - flats with 2-3 girls working together, but managed by group manager, who pays for flat and all other cost (including LE and mob) and takes share from income. Usually Polish girls.
4) Freelancers - one or two girls working on their own in rented flat, usually trough internet ads. Mostly Polish, but also some Russian/Ukraine/Belarus girls. Lot of them speak foreign languages. There are also "girls next door" who use this way to supplement their budget as extra, not full time job. Those can be mostly found on sex chats of several portals or dating sites.
4 is fastest growing segment of the market. Because they do not break any law, they can go to Police in case of mob trying to mess with them. 3 is also growing, 2 is static and 1 is mostly declining. We have also strip or go-go clubs that (as a standard) do not extend services past visual entertainment and/or lap dance. But girls sometimes are open to "after hours" work.
Generally options 2-4 are relatively safe - those kind of business requires level of safety to attract customers. All parties involved now this. As for health safety it is good not to use too cheap offers and opt for Polish girls over 25. They do take care of themselves will not go for un-safe behaviours for any amount of money.
Regarding taxes, I know that lot of girls working on own account would not mind to pay taxes and to have social security like other "self employed" trades, if they would be allowed to deduct actual business cost, like any other "normal" business.
Generally de-criminalizing girls who decide work in this line, strongly reduced criminal activities around this sector, especially for freelance girls. There are still strong influences in sector of escort agencies or houses, but customers are usually not involved in anything (or even aware). There is also strong push to cut human trafficking and to help girls who are brought from abroad against their will by mobs as well as Polish girls who are victims of "export" to Western Europe or to Middle East. Those efforts are coming both from LE and NGO (mostly from LaStrada).
Two most popular internet sites in Poland, where you can find options 2, 3 and 4:
http://www.odloty.pl/en/escorts-call-girls.html
http://www.roksa.pl/len/anonse.php
FChen17213
03-20-13, 21:03
That sounds pretty cool in Poland. I think it's ridiculous in America that prostitution is illegal. What's a man to do? At some point you get tired of watching porn and manual override. You also get sick of playing stupid love games, and having to jump through all these hoops just to get some, whether it be expensive restaurants, stupid presents, flowers, etc and all that junk. If the woman is willing to do it for money, and it's a bargained for exchange, it's perfectly natural and healthy. I mean, I think it's cruel men can't go to a brothel and get some at least once a week. The govt basically makes satisfying one of man's primal urges illegal. You want to talk morality? I think it's immoral for a government to do that. The poor "John" just wants to get some. He works hard at his job driving trucks or painting houses. He just wants to satisfy his sexual urges once or twice a week. What is wrong with that? Why is the government stopping him and telling him " no" even if he's willing to pay for it, and there's a woman willing to perform the service? That is cruel and messed up....at least in my opinion.
Belmont31R
03-20-13, 21:19
Elderly Dutch prostitute twin's retire after 50 years on the jobs, and a combined 355,000 clients: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/03/18/amsterdam-prostitute-red-light-district-fokkens.html
Yet here in America we have mostly crack whores and sex slaves...:rolleyes:
Moose-Knuckle
03-20-13, 21:22
Elderly Dutch prostitute twin's retire after 50 years on the jobs, and a combined 355,000 clients: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/03/18/amsterdam-prostitute-red-light-district-fokkens.html
Talk about throwing a hot dog down a hallway and . . . :bad:
Holy wizard sleeves Batman! :eek:
Belmont31R
03-20-13, 21:42
Talk about throwing a hot dog down a hallway and . . . :bad:
Holy wizard sleeves Batman! :eek:
With modern plastic surgery that could be as good as new...
Talk about throwing a hot dog down a hallway and . . . :bad:
Holy wizard sleeves Batman! :eek:
"Wizard sleeves"... I love it!
Now I have an alternative to "meat curtains".
Sent from my phone cause my Commodore 64 is in the shop.
Magic_Salad0892
03-21-13, 05:33
355,000....
Holy meat flower.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-21-13, 06:33
Elderly Dutch prostitute twin's retire after 50 years on the jobs, and a combined 355,000 clients: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/03/18/amsterdam-prostitute-red-light-district-fokkens.html
Yet here in America we have mostly crack whores and sex slaves...:rolleyes:
265 work days a year, 2 ladies that works out to about 14 a day- and I doubt they have been pulling those kinds of numbers since the Berlin Wall fell.....
Nightvisionary
03-21-13, 11:53
We took down a ecstasy distribution crew in December, also tied to pimping and prostitution in the region (region, not area). One of the girls supplying them with cell phones in her name/account was an eighteen year-old from the Seattle area. She had five prostitution arrests in the eight months she had been working in our AO. Two of those were for engaging in prostitution while being HIV positive. Waste of time? Really?
Please explain how arresting her a sixth time for prostitution is preventing her from having sex while HIV positive? Did you arrest her for being HIV positive or for accepting money for sex? How long has your agency arrested people for vice crimes? During that time has it eliminated or significantly lowered the incidence of vice crimes? Yes what you are doing is a waste of time. Your own post proves that.
Just like I would tell anti-gunners, LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE! At least as much as possible. As long as they are not directly hurting others, leave them alone. Your morals are not other people's morals. Believe me. They feel just as right and just as strongly about their values as you do.
If two consenting adults want to pay for sex, let them. If they want to do it for free, let them. As for human trafficking? That's kidnapping people against their will and forcing them into slavery. Way different and more heinous crimes. To say that prostitution goes hand in hand with human trafficking is like saying drugs and guns go hand and hand. Sure, it can, but just because one is illegal and doesn't serve much of a legitimate purpose doesn't mean the other should be banned as well.
As far as drawing a line? For those people who say that this will lead to pedophilia, dendrophilia (sex with plants), and zoophilia? I don't buy much into that. Why is pedophilia banned? It is horrific because the child cannot consent and does not have the mental capacity to give consent. The law is to protect
the child, not impose some restriction on what turns on the adult. I repeat. The law is there to protect
the children and the vulnerable. That is why our Supreme Court has consistently ruled that child porn
cartoons and toys where no actual kids are involved or harmed CANNOT be banned. Same thing with laws against zoophilia. The laws were set to protect our animals and pets. The poor Golden Retriever only has the mental capacity of a child. He or she CANNOT give meaningful consent to a person. It is very damaging and harmful to the animal. That is why pedophilia and zoophilia are such HEINOUS HORRIFIC crimes that our society doesn't tolerate. Prostitution between consenting adults is way way different.
Ok, so then some people will argue that this will lead to polygamy and other strange practices. I say that polygamy got a horrible reputation because it has historically been related to some dude marrying 13 year olds in some tiny village. Once again, it was a forced marriage involving a minor. The horrible part is the lack of consent, the age of the victim, etc. That's why the guy should go to prison. Now if polygamy really involved multiple consenting adults over 21 who full well knew what they were doing? I say, "let them." Although strange, what right do I have imposing my moral values on them? Same thing with homosexuality. Just mind your own business. I might personally dislike and disapprove of such behavior, but I really couldn't care less what two consenting adults want to do in their bedroom. Lawrence v Texas.
I can't stand liberals who want to impose their will on us and want to take our guns away. I also can't stand conservatives who want to take away porn, adult entertainment, and impose their religious morals on the rest of the world. As Ted Nugent said, "leave us alone!!!"
Ya I cant stand globalists who feed people propaganda that the world is over populated.
I also cant stand shills that get on firearms based forums to troll, especially when they promote population reduction.
Alaskapopo
03-22-13, 20:40
The world is over populated and food and water shortrages are going to be a reality soon for everyone if we don't do something about it.
Pat
MountainRaven
03-22-13, 21:53
The world is over populated and food and water shortrages are going to be a reality soon for everyone if we don't do something about it.
Pat
Except for that mythical 1%.
They won't have to worry about it. It's everybody else, from the poorest of the poor to the very tippy-top of the "99%" who will have to pay. Through the nose. And the mythical 1% will probably be the ones making the money off of it, too.
FChen17213
03-22-13, 22:04
Actually, I would say we are the 1%. The United States is the 1% of the world. So I would tell those people who are on Occupy Wallstreet that they are actually part of the 1% and to stop their whining.
Alaskapopo
03-22-13, 22:34
Actually, I would say we are the 1%. The United States is the 1% of the world. So I would tell those people who are on Occupy Wallstreet that they are actually part of the 1% and to stop their whining.
While I may not agreed with everything they stand for the Occupy movement had a lot of things right. For one thing we were bailing out banks and big car companies and doing next to nothing to help the normal people.
Pat
The world is over populated and food and water shortrages are going to be a reality soon for everyone if we don't do something about it.
Pat
We need to colonize other planets.
Public Service Announcement - Prostitution is legal in the state of Nevada with the exception of Clark County which encompasses Las Vegas. The closest legal brothel that I'm aware of is in Pahrump which is about a 45 minute drive from Vegas.
You can't swing a dead cat in a casino without hitting a prostitute but no matter what they tell you it's still against the law in Las Vegas.
Alaskapopo
03-23-13, 16:56
We need to colonize other planets.
In all seriousness one thing we should not have cut funding to is NASA. Because like you I feel our population will need to one day expand past this planet.
Pat
El Pistolero
03-23-13, 18:27
Talk about throwing a hot dog down a hallway and . . . :bad:
Holy wizard sleeves Batman! :eek:
....and tits like clown pockets.
MountainRaven
03-23-13, 19:41
In all seriousness one thing we should not have cut funding to is NASA. Because like you I feel our population will need to one day expand past this planet.
Pat
Amen.
Expand or die. We've run out of room on this rock, time to set up shop on another.
Public Service Announcement - Prostitution is legal in the state of Nevada with the exception of Clark County which encompasses Las Vegas. The closest legal brothel that I'm aware of is in Pahrump which is about a 45 minute drive from Vegas.
You can't swing a dead cat in a casino without hitting a prostitute but no matter what they tell you it's still against the law in Las Vegas.
Also illegal in Reno and Carson city.
In all seriousness one thing we should not have cut funding to is NASA. Because like you I feel our population will need to one day expand past this planet.
Pat
One is none and two is one. I'm talking about planets here.
All of our eggs are in one basket. We don't see anywhere near the majority of dangerous near Earth objects. If one hits, we could lose our species. We need to be a multi planet species to survive. What would be better is a multi system species. Or multi galaxy species. Hell, let's take over another universe too just incase.
But until then, another world like Mars, or the Moon would be nice.
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