View Full Version : Is it the schools or something else?
Crow Hunter
03-15-13, 18:37
For entertainment purposes I sometimes scan anti-gun websites just to see what is being said about gun control issues.
One of the common threads that I see is that people who own guns for self defense or CCW are paranoid. It is often stated that the statistical chances of someone actually being attacked and needing a gun are so low that it is a waste of time and a sign that the person might have emotional problems.
In the same paragraph/diatribe they will also state that gun control MUST be enacted because they shouldn't have to live in fear of all us "gun nuts" who might go on a shooting rampage and kill them....
Are they really so dense they can't see their own logical fallacy?
I think it is because they have their heads stuck so far up their asses (or Obama's) that it is cutting of the air supply to their brains. :D
The best one that I saw was a person claiming that people that went out and bought guns because Obama might ban them were all racists. Then when someone pointed out that Obama IS trying to ban them, this person said that the dissenter was just demonstrating his racist mindset because he hadn't actually banned them....:rolleyes:
One of the common threads that I see is that people who own guns for self defense or CCW are paranoid.
People who own fire extinguishers are paranoid wannabe firemen. They should just call 911 and wait for the professionals to arrive. When untrained civilians try and be wannabe firemen they put themselves and others at addition risk and hamper the efforts of professional firemen often have to rescue these untrained civilians.
Furthermore, there is no reason for any private citizen to own a large capacity fire extinguisher. It only encourages them to engage in reckless behavior that puts themselves and everyone else at risk. Optimized statistics have shown that the instances of people successfully managing fires is less than those who need to be rescued from home fires by professionals.
Crow Hunter
03-15-13, 19:05
People who own fire extinguishers are paranoid wannabe firemen. They should just call 911 and wait for the professionals to arrive. When untrained civilians try and be wannabe firemen they put themselves and others at addition risk and hamper the efforts of professional firemen often have to rescue these untrained civilians.
Furthermore, there is no reason for any private citizen to own a large capacity fire extinguisher. It only encourages them to engage in reckless behavior that puts themselves and everyone else at risk. Optimized statistics have shown that the instances of people successfully managing fires is less than those who need to be rescued from home fires by professionals.
I am going to use that sometime.
That also reminds me, I need to get a high capacity extinguisher before they ban them. My kitchen one is just a single stack.:D
GeorgiaBoy
03-15-13, 20:34
It's simply differences in philosophy.
It's simply differences in philosophy.
Yea but the question is why, which is way more complex of an issue.
OP, your trying to see somthing that isn't there in the anti-gun argument... Logic.
It's never been there and never will.
Belmont31R
03-15-13, 21:56
OP, your trying to see somthing that isn't there in the anti-gun argument... Logic.
It's never been there and never will.
Exactly.
Crow Hunter
03-15-13, 22:09
It's simply differences in philosophy.
I don't think it is a philosophy problem rather a critical thinking problem.
Calling someone paranoid for wanting to be prepared to defend themselves for a statistically unlikely event (victim of crime) but wanting to ban guns because of a chance for an even LESS statistically likely event (school shooting) is not paranoid...
They think it is stupid to arm yourself in defense of a criminal attack, but want to ban guns to prevent themselves from being a victim of crime.
If it is such a statistical improbability that anyone will be a victim of crime to the point that we don't need guns to defend ourselves, then there really isn't a reason for them to be in fear of guns and they should just leave us alone...
I think that either just flies over most of their heads or they are just intellectually dishonest.
The next biggest argument is that guns are so "easy" to commit suicide with and many of them want the government to restrict THEIR access to guns because they are afraid they might hurt THEMSELVES with one and therefore want to make sure that NO ONE has one...
That I agree is a completely different philosophy.
GeorgiaBoy
03-15-13, 23:01
I don't think it is a philosophy problem rather a critical thinking problem.
<snip>
The thing is, they think the exact same about us; that we lack critical thinking.
Its how any belief system works. There are those that believe one thing, and those that believe another. In essence, there is nothing inherently bad about being either pro-gun, or anti-gun. It is like being pro-life or pro-choice, pro-war or pacifistic. Generally, both sides have their own arguments, and its up to individuals to decide who's argument they prefer.
The only problem that there is with anti-gunners in this circumstance is that this particular nation has a deep history in the ownership of firearms and we as US citizens have a right through our Constitution to bear arms.
Of course, its important not to over-generalize either side of the aisle on the gun control debate. Both sides have extremists and moderates, and to lump either side into one category is an injustice to both sides. Personally, I think very few anti-gunners are truly "anti-gun" in the truest sense. I think most are just either misinformed or misunderstand certain guns and think that if "certain" guns are banned, that everyone will be safer yet people should still be able to own the "less dangerous" guns. In fact, that particular believe is present on both the so called "anti-gun" and the so called "pro-gun" sides. Of course, there are those who are vehemently anti-gun and truly wish to ban all firearms. I know some of those types of people. The actual desire to ban all guns is much more deep than just politics and is much more philosophical. (i.e., all weapons are evil)
Furthermore, there is no reason for any private citizen to own a large capacity fire extinguisher. It only encourages them to engage in reckless behavior that puts themselves and everyone else at risk. Optimized statistics have shown that the instances of people successfully managing fires is less than those who need to be rescued from home fires by professionals.
Better yet, owning a fire extinguisher makes people want to go out and set fires. That is the flawed thinking of the left.
Heavy Metal
03-16-13, 00:00
It is often stated that the statistical chances of someone actually being attacked and needing a gun are so low that it is a waste of time....
In that case, so is gun control.
They lack internal consistancy because they argue from emotion and not fact.
It's simply differences in philosophy.
I disagree. Philosophy is outlook (half full or half empty) and this is an issue of values and rights. It's mostly people who want to feel "protected" even into adulthood and have surrogate parents in the form of government and first responders.
The idea that they may have to deal with something "on their own" horrifies them. They know they are unwilling and not up to the task. More importantly that is what they "pay taxes for" in their mind.
The rest of us became adults and realized that the world can be unpredictable and we might have to be prepared to handle things on our own from time to time.
I see it every damn hurricane season when we take a major hit and there is no power and no grocery stores for a week or more. By day three most people are out of food and have no idea how to prepare meals. They get mad and blame the government for not restoring civilization fast enough.
I'm in my driveway with the neighbors cooking hotdogs on the grill (because we prepared in advance) and people I've never met had the nerve to send their kids over to ask for a handout. I even had one woman come over as if I was some kind of hotdog vendor wanting to buy several for her family.
People think just because YOU have something they are entitled to it because they aren't as prepared or worse assume they can buy yours.
The absolute worst was one neighbor who assumed he could borrow a shotgun after 5 days without power and things getting interesting in the evenings.
As part of my "BCM swag" I got with my upper there was a video Travis Haley did. In it he talked about the 99% and 1%. Basically the 99% of our lives is what we do normally everyday. That one percent, however, can determine our life and death. That is why we train so hard, practice so much, and take pride in things we do right for we know in that one percent chance, or time of our life- whichever way you look at it- our very lives and possibly others or family will be at stake.
People like us who would/ do carry guns, who would fight someone hand to hand (That is always my first route if possible or necessary.) cannot, and will not cower in a corner and let a crazy bastard determine the future of our lives, and most importantly that of others.
They are the ones who are paranoid of "gun nuts going on mass shootings." That actually hardly happens from what I have seen. It is usually crazy people using the gun as a tool to do his deed. Very rarely due proud gun owners snap and shoot "masses" of people, that I am aware of.
Link to Travis' 1 Percent speech, sorry only in text, cannot find the video.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/76364156/1-Percent
Submariner
03-16-13, 12:32
I don't think it is a philosophy problem rather a critical thinking problem.
This pretty much summarizes it.
100+ years of public schools - You're a public menace and a fraud. You turn out not educated, prepared citizens but budding felons and thugs. You've had your ever-escalating per-student spending and your technology, and yet you have continually failed despite coming back to the trough for more year after year. Your time has expired, your bogus pronouncements no longer carry weight and your legitimacy has evaporated. You deserve nothing—not a salary, not a pension, nothing. You're lucky you're not being charged with felony child neglect en-masse.
Karl Denninger at market-ticker.org
MountainRaven
03-16-13, 12:59
The only problem that there is with anti-gunners in this circumstance is that this particular nation has a deep history in the ownership of firearms and we as US citizens have a right through our Constitution to bear arms.
With respect,
We, as human beings, are given the right to keep and bear arms by God (or nature, if you prefer). Wolves have teeth, bears have claws. Humans have arms: Spears, axes, knives, guns, &c.
The problem with the anti-gunners is that they seek to defy nature. They desire to take what nature has given us as surely as if they were to take away our ability to communicate, deny us access to food, water, or oxygen.
I'm not saying I don't understand where the anti-gunners come from. I understand the idea that 'if we take away guns from people, criminals won't have guns!' As we all know, this idea does not hold up in reality and it denies us our natural right to protect our existence.
I don't think it is a philosophy problem rather a critical thinking problem.
That about sums it up.
RogerinTPA
03-16-13, 18:08
It's the 80 year + slow march of the communist progressive movement. Those children over that time period have been brain washed by progressive teachers. Those children are now the end result of that process and are now in a position of power, politically and in the media, with the rest of those progressive adults voting them in. Along the way, christian faith, moral standing, integrity, honor, a sense of what is right, being a good citizen, natural law and the US Constitution got kicked to the curb. All by these two acts, Political correctness and Critical theory from the Marxist. They couldn't win by their original assumption of peasants rising up to seize control after WW I, so they switched to Class Warfare (Attacking the established culture of patriotism, religious freedom, politics, education, etc...) our current democratic political condition.
Natural law is the foundation of "inalienable rights", and the Bill of Rights merely lists what were considered to be pre-existing rights. The best of governments tend to expand and exercise power, and can always find a pretext to do it. The Founders knew that in spades. The Constitution was designed to keep the whole shebang on the rails through checks and balances. What it was NOT designed to do was to do this in the face of a silly, ignorant citizenry.
Which is pretty much what what decades of progressive government schooling have given us.
Look up Antonio Gramsci and "The Long March Through The Institutions". It hasn't worked quite as neatly in practice, but "close enough for government work".
Disclaimer: I am not big on conspiracy theories, preferring to attribute most bad things to ignorance, not malice. But I do read history...
One of the common threads that I see is that people who own guns for self defense or CCW are paranoid. It is often stated that the statistical chances of someone actually being attacked and needing a gun are so low that it is a waste of time and a sign that the person might have emotional problems.
They want to have it both ways because they are reacting on emotion, not logic. There is no other explanation.
Leftism is a religion, and the most dangerous religion in the world today. For the leftists, their faith trumps all for them. It trumps logic, reason, facts, tradition, and even their own personal values. They give all for the advancement of leftism.
It's the 80 year + slow march of the communist progressive movement. Those children over that time period have been brain washed by progressive teachers. Those children are now the end result of that process and are now in a position of power, politically and in the media, with the rest of those progressive adults voting them in. Along the way, christian faith, moral standing, integrity, honor, a sense of what is right, being a good citizen, natural law and the US Constitution got kicked to the curb. All by these two acts, Political correctness and Critical theory from the Marxist. They couldn't win by their original assumption of peasants rising up to seize control after WW I, so they switched to Class Warfare (Attacking the established culture of patriotism, religious freedom, politics, education, etc...) our current democratic political condition.
Truth,
This siege started long ago.
For entertainment purposes I sometimes scan anti-gun websites just to see what is being said about gun control issues.
One of the common threads that I see is that people who own guns for self defense or CCW are paranoid. It is often stated that the statistical chances of someone actually being attacked and needing a gun are so low that it is a waste of time and a sign that the person might have emotional problems.
In the same paragraph/diatribe they will also state that gun control MUST be enacted because they shouldn't have to live in fear of all us "gun nuts" who might go on a shooting rampage and kill them....
Are they really so dense they can't see their own logical fallacy?
I think it is because they have their heads stuck so far up their asses (or Obama's) that it is cutting of the air supply to their brains. :D
The best one that I saw was a person claiming that people that went out and bought guns because Obama might ban them were all racists. Then when someone pointed out that Obama IS trying to ban them, this person said that the dissenter was just demonstrating his racist mindset because he hadn't actually banned them....:rolleyes:
Which website?
I haven't trolled in a while and I'm feeling the itch.
Magic_Salad0892
03-17-13, 04:42
Which website?
I haven't trolled in a while and I'm feeling the itch.
Myself as well, my friend. Democratic Underground usually has some good threads to troll once you get past the retarded site layout.
Magic_Salad0892
03-17-13, 04:42
Leftism is a religion, and the most dangerous religion in the world today. For the leftists, their faith trumps all for them. It trumps logic, reason, facts, tradition, and even their own personal values. They give all for the advancement of leftism.
That sounds familiar, and isn't exclusive to leftism.
Myself as well, my friend. Democratic Underground usually has some good threads to troll once you get past the retarded site layout.
I went there once, the layout kept me out. I used to do web design, so I know a thing or two about usability and what looks good. DU has neither.
That sounds familiar, and isn't exclusive to leftism.
Very true.
Crow Hunter
03-17-13, 10:01
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/19/opinion/please-take-away-my-right-to-a-gun.html?emc=eta1&_r=1&#commentsContainer
This has some of the worst logic I have ever read on the subject matter at hand.
For instance:
Please take a way my right to own a gun. Unlike the writer Wendy Button I do not suffer from depression or any form of mental illness, but like most human beings I do stupid things. Especially when I lose my temper. In those situations, if I am in a rage and a gun is available to me, who knows what I am capable of? I don't. The availability of Guns makes me more dangerous, not only to myself, but to people around me.
or
The "good guys with guns" argument is frighteningly flawed. Almost anyone is capable of losing it and striking out in anger, and if they have access to a gun might use it. If guns were illegal, and possessors of guns were prosecuted, "good guys" wouldn't shoot other good people, as currently happens every day in the U.S.
It is interesting that the vast majority of anti comments come from NY and Canada.
Maybe that is a clue.:D
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/19/opinion/please-take-away-my-right-to-a-gun.html?emc=eta1&_r=1&#commentsContainer
This has some of the worst logic I have ever read on the subject matter at hand.
For instance:
or
It is interesting that the vast majority of anti comments come from NY and Canada.
Maybe that is a clue.:D
Actually THOSE people should NOT have guns for the reasons they state. They are assuming everyone like them does not possess self control. I've been angry many, many times but rarely do "I rage beyond all self control." And in each one of those instances having a gun did not put myself or others at risk.
That is because I am a grown up and try and act like one. I don't have temper tantrums and think "**** him I have a gun." The times I have had to use my gun I have been inwardly calm and outwardly aggressive and hoping I won't have to shoot anybody.
U do realize that govt plants frequent plenty of web forums and not just the "right-minded" forums.
They need to convince the fence-sitters and the "I-never-thought-about-its". So u get responses as of the bloody deep end that we see.
No normal person would think that way much less put it out there for the world. Okay, there are some shallow people out there, too, but please keep in mind the agents provocateur has his equal for the war on the weak-minded and weak willed.
Crow Hunter
03-17-13, 23:13
U do realize that govt plants frequent plenty of web forums and not just the "right-minded" forums.
They need to convince the fence-sitters and the "I-never-thought-about-its". So u get responses as of the bloody deep end that we see.
No normal person would think that way much less put it out there for the world. Okay, there are some shallow people out there, too, but please keep in mind the agents provocateur has his equal for the war on the weak-minded and weak willed.
You know, I have never really thought about that.
I know there are lots of companies doing guerrilla marketing but I never thought about the government doing it.
I actually thought many people where just that stupid. :D
U do realize that govt plants frequent plenty of web forums and not just the "right-minded" forums.
They need to convince the fence-sitters and the "I-never-thought-about-its". So u get responses as of the bloody deep end that we see.
No normal person would think that way much less put it out there for the world. Okay, there are some shallow people out there, too, but please keep in mind the agents provocateur has his equal for the war on the weak-minded and weak willed.
Sadly I have met more than a few people who actually believe we never went to the moon, actually believe Bush orchestrated the greatest conspiracy in the history of humanity, actually believe the holocaust never happened and actually believe if we just made certain kinds of gun illegal it would stop most criminal shootings.
I wish I could say they were getting paid to express those ideas, but the sad fact is they really are just that stupid.And there are more than enough of them to keep forums like DUh.com humming along just fine without any government assistance.
Crow Hunter
03-18-13, 09:06
Sadly I have met more than a few people who actually believe we never went to the moon, actually believe Bush orchestrated the greatest conspiracy in the history of humanity, actually believe the holocaust never happened and actually believe if we just made certain kinds of gun illegal it would stop most criminal shootings.
I wish I could say they were getting paid to express those ideas, but the sad fact is they really are just that stupid.And there are more than enough of them to keep forums like DUh.com humming along just fine without any government assistance.
Speaking of which, I heard a radio show years ago with Phil Valentine where he stated that he had an old boss when he first started in radio that was educated in Boston that firmly believed that the Dark Ages in Europe was a time in which the sun didn't shine anymore and that was why Europeans were white....
Not a joke, he firmly believed that and could not be convinced otherwise.
U do realize that govt plants frequent plenty of web forums and not just the "right-minded" forums.
They need to convince the fence-sitters and the "I-never-thought-about-its". So u get responses as of the bloody deep end that we see.
No normal person would think that way much less put it out there for the world. Okay, there are some shallow people out there, too, but please keep in mind the agents provocateur has his equal for the war on the weak-minded and weak willed.
Very true. There are whole offices full of people that sit on forums have conversations within their own little group under many different screen names, equally spaced out of course, that drive a conversation in one specific way. They may comment on one person every now and then, but they converse among themselves. It might even be one or two people that have a dozen screen names screaming at each other. Usually these types are easy to spot once you know the jargon that they use and the methodology. They use a lot of throw away names, usually have fewer than 500 posts, and only respond to a select few individuals and go against the general theme of a specific forum.
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