View Full Version : Things You Probably Wouldn't Do If You Knew What They Meant...
1. Wedding rings - I know every wedding you go to you have to listen to some stupid vow about how the ring is a perfect circle and thus a symbol for undying love without end or beginning or some nonsense to that effect. The reality is they are a symbol of bondage in the Judeo / Christian tradition. And by bondage I mean slavery not promises of S&M fun and games.
"You are consecrated to me with this ring according to the law of Moses and Israel."
Basically it was almost the symbol of a slave and the wife was bound to remind her of ownership. The modern practice of men wearing wedding rings only goes back to WWII. The practice of diamond engagement rings for women only goes back to the 1930s in popular use.
2. Mortgage - Just translate the word "death pledge" or "death contract." People will claim it means the "contract dies" when it is fulfilled but the actual usage was more like "pay or die" and you pledged your very life to repay the debt.
3. Polish Jokes - Sure they are funny and they have prior origins but they are largely the product of Nazi propaganda to justify actions in Poland and promote Poles as inferior to other Europeans. Ironically the poles seem to have invented the delayed roller lock bolt design that would be captured by the Germans and used in the MG42 and the later HK designs and the Poles were the first to break German enigma codes and share them with the allies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_machine
The Polish Cipher Bureau first broke Germany's military Enigma ciphers in December 1932. Five weeks before the outbreak of World War II, on 25 July 1939, they presented their Enigma-decryption techniques and equipment to French and British military intelligence in Warsaw.
You sure know how to take the fun out of it.... :laugh:
Not quite sure how my wife is going to take to the idea she's "owned" by me.
Payed off my mortgage a couple of years back, and yes, it nearly killed me!
Down this end of the world, it's not Polish jokes, but Aggie jokes.
Keep up the interesting posts. You never know what you'll learn.
Don't know about the wedding rings. In highly conservative country of Afghanistan men do wear wedding rings and have done so traditionally. I have no idea how far back this tradition goes but Afghans are not really given to fads.
MountainRaven
03-16-13, 12:41
My High School Latin teacher (late of the 75th Ranger Reg't and professor of Latin, Ancient Greek, and the Classics at the local university) taught us that wedding rings were worn by both men and women in ancient Rome. And that the wedding and divorce proceedings basically boiled down to everyone in town showing up at the town square, the mayor saying, "these two are married/divorced", and then everyone went on their merry way.
In any case, I'm not fond of rings on the fingers, for any reason. Too much that can go wrong with them... going down drains, tearing off or breaking fingers, &c.
Cagemonkey
03-16-13, 13:04
Very interesting info. What is it about Europeans wearing their wedding rings on their right hand? Anyone know?
Very interesting info. What is it about Europeans wearing their wedding rings on their right hand? Anyone know?
Robin Harris answered this one. If you wear the ring on the wrong hand it's because you married the wrong damn woman.
Not quite sure how my wife is going to take to the idea she's "owned" by me.
Just use the information to segway into some S&M play.
3. Polish Jokes - Sure they are funny and they have prior origins but they are largely the product of Nazi propaganda to justify actions in Poland and promote Poles as inferior to other Europeans. Ironically the poles seem to have invented the delayed roller lock bolt design that would be captured by the Germans and used in the MG42 and the later HK designs and the Poles were the first to break German enigma codes and share them with the allies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_machine
The Polish Cipher Bureau first broke Germany's military Enigma ciphers in December 1932. Five weeks before the outbreak of World War II, on 25 July 1939, they presented their Enigma-decryption techniques and equipment to French and British military intelligence in Warsaw.
http://rlv.zcache.com/wwii_poland_first_to_fight_poster-r28ecb82cb2464f1b839e695fc745f4e9_aibsk_400.jpg
And damn proud of it.
But I still think polish jokes, blonde jokes, and just about any racial or stereotypical jokes are still hilarious. ;)
Besides, if you've been around Polish people, you'll start to believe some of the jokes... :laugh:
Rings on fingers- I thought that meant something else.....
Still a rotten idea- I agree with Fjallhrafn. I knew a guy who got his caught in a chain link fence- it wasn't fun for him....
working on sail boats we always took off excess jewelry
seen a few messed up fingers and hands on boats !
had a tourist rip off his finger one time ! bummer he was a surgeon he was trying to kinda swim up out of the water and grab the edge of the boat and it got caught on the railing edge he could not hold his weight so he let go but his ring caught and just bent it back and popped it right off !
Magic_Salad0892
03-17-13, 00:06
Just use the information to segway into some S&M play.
Lol. This is how I'm going to propose to my girlfriend.
"Will you let me be your owner?"
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/09/the-origin-of-wedding-rings-and-why-theyre-worn-on-the-4th-finger-of-the-left-hand/
This seems to be the norm most everything I find
Eternal circle and stuff not the slave thing ?
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/09/the-origin-of-wedding-rings-and-why-theyre-worn-on-the-4th-finger-of-the-left-hand/
This seems to be the norm most everything I find
Eternal circle and stuff not the slave thing ?
Our weddings are not from Egyptian or Roman traditions.
The reality is they are a symbol of bondage in the Judeo / Christian tradition.
Woo!
And by bondage I mean slavery not promises of S&M fun and games.
Aww. Wait...
Woo!
Just use the information to segway into some S&M play.
More like d/s. S&m doesn't necessarily follow from d/s.
Lol. This is how I'm going to propose to my girlfriend.
"Will you let me be your owner?"
You don't ask her, you tell her. You don't ask your dog to get off the sofa, do you? :p
Magic_Salad0892
03-17-13, 03:41
Woo!
You don't ask her, you tell her. You don't ask your dog to get off the sofa, do you? :p
LOL. Good point. I didn't realize how retarded that proposal sounded. I'm changing it to "Bitch. You're mine now." and my wedding vows will include contact information so that if I lose her in some way, people know where to return her. :lol:
(Somebody is going to get really pissed at me for saying that. Lmao.)
Our weddings are not from Egyptian or Roman traditions.
Being in the wedding biz I try to know history and traditions :)
Christian values of a marriage are not about the ring ? Its in quick a symbol
Christians marriage basically goes back to Genesis :)
But again
Your post was about the ring and its meaning !
The first wedding rings in History were Egyptian :) the idea of love flowing from one end to the other and things like that were the idea behind them :)
Circle in Egypt meant eternity and marriage was meant as eternal
Greeks picked it up from Egyptians Romans picked it up from egyptians as I remember
Of course history says some Romans used it as marking property
Part of this was also based on the hierarchy and classes of their system
jewish culture did not pick up the symbolism till a little over 1000 years ago or more so quite into the AD time also
Christians picked up wedding bands about 500 years earlier than the Jews and also a little over 1000 years ago Christians started sharing elaborate wedding bands but the practice was frowned upon
but rings did start becoming accepted part of the ceremony about 800 years ago or so
Engagement rings go back to Roman times at least also
Not diamonds of course :)
So men did wear rings way back in History but not as common in WWII it did become more common but again while not as popular men did wear them in the past throughout history
I guess we can disagree not sure where your info came from ?
Mine from many sources many people over the years history studied etc...
The whole diamond thing is made up by the diamond industry :)
Although I think the first diamond ring in marriage was over 500 years ago but romans were the first to start engraving rings
LOL. Good point. I didn't realize how retarded that proposal sounded. I'm changing it to "Bitch. You're mine now." and my wedding vows will include contact information so that if I lose her in some way, people know where to return her. :lol:
(Somebody is going to get really pissed at me for saying that. Lmao.)
Implant an RFID tag. I mean, we're not in the stone age anymore!
If someone gets mad, just redirect your conversation and tone to said person. Guaranteed to work 60% of the time every time.
The only thing I'll wear near the hand is a wristwatch. I don't like rings and wouldn't wear any. I doubt this will be an issue since it seems that very few women are true marriage material. But I guess that's a different thread.
Magic_Salad0892
03-17-13, 03:55
Implant an RFID tag. I mean, we're not in the stone age anymore!
Ear implant. Like a dog, or cow or whatever.
If someone gets mad, just redirect your conversation and tone to said person. Guaranteed to work 60% of the time every time.
I would just tell them that they smell like pure gasoline. Or bigfoot's dick.
The only thing I'll wear near the hand is a wristwatch. I don't like rings and wouldn't wear any. I doubt this will be an issue since it seems that very few women are true marriage material. But I guess that's a different thread.
I don't even wear a wrist watch. I use a pocket watch like any refined gentleman of class and taste.
A pocket watch with a mp3 player, angry birds, m4carbine.net, and can sometimes be used as a phone.
Ear implant. Like a dog, or cow or whatever.
Fin implant like a shark! Shark week withdrawl!
The fin implant has the advantage of GPS tracking and being salt water proof.
Magic_Salad0892
03-17-13, 04:02
A pocket watch with a mp3 player, angry birds, lots, and lots of porn, m4carbine.net, and can sometimes be used as a phone.
Fixed.
Fin implant like a shark! Shark week withdrawl!
Shark week is on Netflix!
Fixed.
Shark week is on Netflix!
I've seen it already, I can't rewatch the same footage, I've memorized it. I need new footage of sharks being apex predators.
Also, yes. This is true. And pictures of cats.
Magic_Salad0892
03-17-13, 04:14
I've seen it already, I can't rewatch the same footage, I've memorized it. I need new footage of sharks being apex predators.
Jackass 2 has mako sharks. Surely that's the same thing.
Also, yes. This is true. And pictures of cats.
I'm 90% sure that pictures of cats, and porn are the reasons that smartphones were invented.
Jackass 2 has mako sharks. Surely that's the same thing.
I've never actually seen the jackass movies, nor the tv show. I have more important things to do with my time. Like watching flying great white sharks rip a seal to shreds.
Mako sharks are certainly quite amazing with their speed, but they just don't do it for me. Go big or go home.
I'm 90% sure that pictures of cats, and porn are the reasons that smartphones were invented.
Normally I would agree, but I actually think they evolved from pda phones. Internet was only added later, and even then it was so slow that the only porn you would get is ASCII art and short stories. Cats hadn't taken over the Internet at that point, so most people were probably getting their cat fix by smuggling their cat to work.
Note, my cat is literally sitting on me as I type this.
montanadave
03-17-13, 09:22
I would just tell them that they smell like ... bigfoot's dick.
Lacking your obviously prodigious experience in wildlife interaction, can you provide a more prosaic analogy for those of us lacking your personal knowledge? :D
Being in the wedding biz I try to know history and traditions :)
Christian values of a marriage are not about the ring ? Its in quick a symbol
Christians marriage basically goes back to Genesis :)
But again
Your post was about the ring and its meaning !
The first wedding rings in History were Egyptian :) the idea of love flowing from one end to the other and things like that were the idea behind them :)
Circle in Egypt meant eternity and marriage was meant as eternal
Greeks picked it up from Egyptians Romans picked it up from egyptians as I remember
Of course history says some Romans used it as marking property
Part of this was also based on the hierarchy and classes of their system
jewish culture did not pick up the symbolism till a little over 1000 years ago or more so quite into the AD time also
Christians picked up wedding bands about 500 years earlier than the Jews and also a little over 1000 years ago Christians started sharing elaborate wedding bands but the practice was frowned upon
but rings did start becoming accepted part of the ceremony about 800 years ago or so
Engagement rings go back to Roman times at least also
Not diamonds of course :)
So men did wear rings way back in History but not as common in WWII it did become more common but again while not as popular men did wear them in the past throughout history
I guess we can disagree not sure where your info came from ?
Mine from many sources many people over the years history studied etc...
The whole diamond thing is made up by the diamond industry :)
Although I think the first diamond ring in marriage was over 500 years ago but romans were the first to start engraving rings
I am aware of all of that. Just as I'm sure you are aware of the specific Judeo / Christian roots, and the symbolic bondage of the ring, I referenced since that is the basis of our concept of marriage.
To hell with it. After learning about De Beers' intentional manipulation of the diamond market, this shit is a scam.
I am aware of all of that. Just as I'm sure you are aware of the specific Judeo / Christian roots, and the symbolic bondage of the ring, I referenced since that is the basis of our concept of marriage.
its not symbolic in the way you think it is ? sorry IMHO you are wrong :)
I know you are a anti religion porn loving guy but quit reading porn mags for marriage history they wont be a good source :)
again you did not even understand where the root of the ring came from !
Our weddings are not from Egyptian or Roman traditions.
where you changed what the topic was ? to somehow pull it away from the rings
I never said our roots of marriage were from Egypt but the rings were which was your original topic :)
now you want to talk about the basis of our marriage its not about a ring at all read Genesis and understand it then come back to me about the root of our Christian marriage
unless you are into trying to pick out one little thing somewhere what you read on the internet and try to think its real ?
kinda like how anti gun folks pick out one little thing this is kinda what you are doing ?
To hell with it. After learning about De Beers' intentional manipulation of the diamond market, this shit is a scam.
Agree the whole diamond thing YUP HUGE scam
rings are OK simple bands nothing else and its just a symbol if anyone based their marriage on rings YIKES !!!!! thats one for sure to end :)
its not symbolic in the way you think it is ? sorry IMHO you are wrong :)
I know you are a anti religion porn loving guy but quit reading porn mags for marriage history they wont be a good source :)
again you did not even understand where the root of the ring came from !
where you changed what the topic was ? to somehow pull it away from the rings
I never said our roots of marriage were from Egypt but the rings were which was your original topic :)
now you want to talk about the basis of our marriage its not about a ring at all read Genesis and understand it then come back to me about the root of our Christian marriage
unless you are into trying to pick out one little thing somewhere what you read on the internet and try to think its real ?
kinda like how anti gun folks pick out one little thing this is kinda what you are doing ?
Actually I gave you the source, here it is again.
"You are consecrated to me with this ring according to the law of Moses and Israel."
As Christianity comes from Judaism this is the original source of our wedding traditions. Obviously there are other traditions, especially internationally, but this is what the ring meant in OT times.
Actually I gave you the source, here it is again.
"You are consecrated to me with this ring according to the law of Moses and Israel."
As Christianity comes from Judaism this is the original source of our wedding traditions. Obviously there are other traditions, especially internationally, but this is what the ring meant in OT times.
Again the first mention of Marriage in the Bible was in Genesis ! A long time before Moses
The history of rings is what I said !
You do realize where Moses was born and when ?
Better get a new source for Your History of marriage Rings and understand the whole timeline !
I'm only getting a wedding band because my fiance would lose her shit if I didn't wear one.
Met an ANGLICO guy a few years back who was missing his ring finger--get caught on something during a jump. Ouch.
My grandfather doesn't wear a wedding band because he almost lost his finger jumping off a Jeep in WWII (not from a wedding band but from a ring he made out of a quarter during the Atlantic voyage). He was a mechanical engineer for GM so he was always around tools and shit.
montanadave
03-17-13, 17:17
Google "ring degloving injuries"
yeah ring accidents are bad
often you will see some sailors who wear a necklace and their ring on that necklace :)
I just never wore rings not worth it after seeing it happen enough :)
Montana I did see a buddy of mine get degloved by a big moray eel one time :) took everything off in this big deep V shaped that went down his finger into his hand area and just pulled it off !
moray spit it out and through all the muck in the water he saw it and kinda pulled it back on :)
needles to say dive was canceled that day and we had to go back in !
amazing doctors got it back on and everything working again but took a long time
almost same thing happened and I have it on tape ! I should convert it to digital of another dive instructor messing with a moray that he should not have been teasing and it struck him really hard right in front of all his divers :)
both guys took about 4-5 hours or reconstructive surgery and many many stitches and tons of physical therapy
whats funny is how many people loose rings when they are new in the islands since they are not used to wearing them and dont have the groove in the finger :)
that and some snorkeling where they are not paying attention and lost ring !
amazed at how many are lost ! sometimes we can find them though
Wouldn't want anything on my person reflecting light under water. Not a jewelry person, though I did purchase a PVD coated cobalt alloy ring late last year.
Magic_Salad0892
03-17-13, 18:38
Lacking your obviously prodigious experience in wildlife interaction, can you provide a more prosaic analogy for those of us lacking your personal knowledge? :D
Some guy in a newsroom said it once, so I figured he knew what it smelled like. :p
yeah ring accidents are bad
often you will see some sailors who wear a necklace and their ring on that necklace :)
If I did that, I couldn't resist calling it "my precioussssss."
A lot of people I know tattoo a ring design around their ring finger and don't wear a ring. Marriage is for life, after all.
Also when working with electronics, you definitely remove all metal jewelry.
jonconsiglio
03-17-13, 19:00
You sure know how to take the fun out of it.... :laugh:
Not quite sure how my wife is going to take to the idea she's "owned" by me.
Payed off my mortgage a couple of years back, and yes, it nearly killed me!
Down this end of the world, it's not Polish jokes, but Aggie jokes.
Keep up the interesting posts. You never know what you'll learn.
Ha! Goddamned Aggies!
jonconsiglio
03-17-13, 19:03
Some guy in a newsroom said it once, so I figured he knew what it smelled like. :p
Actually, it was a chick in a newsroom!
Magic_Salad0892
03-17-13, 19:20
Actually, it was a chick in a newsroom!
You're right. Damn! :lol:
If I did that, I couldn't resist calling it "my precioussssss."
A lot of people I know tattoo a ring design around their ring finger and don't wear a ring. Marriage is for life, after all.
Also when working with electronics, you definitely remove all metal jewelry.
That would be funny
Wife did not want the tattoo !
Again the first mention of Marriage in the Bible was in Genesis ! A long time before Moses
The history of rings is what I said !
You do realize where Moses was born and when ?
Better get a new source for Your History of marriage Rings and understand the whole timeline !
Facts not in evidence. More than a few people have suggested Moses wrote Genesis.
Actually I gave you the source, here it is again.
"You are consecrated to me with this ring according to the law of Moses and Israel."
As Christianity comes from Judaism this is the original source of our wedding traditions. Obviously there are other traditions, especially internationally, but this is what the ring meant in OT times.
What does "consecrated" mean to you?
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What does "consecrated" mean to you?
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I'll be honest, I haven't played WoW in about 4 years, but the word "consecrate" is still associated in my mind with a pbaoedot paladin spell.
What does "consecrated" mean to you?
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To me, initiate. But in this context probably to set apart.
To me, initiate. But in this context probably to set apart.
I thought it meant something like "to declare something holy."
I thought it meant something like "to declare something holy."
Words mean more than one thing.
Words mean more than one thing.
Right, but the phrase "you are consecrated to me" is more likely to imply a holy context, like "you are holy/sacred/blessed to me". In other words, "I cherish you almost as much as I cherish God himself as signified by this ring."
Ding ding we have a winner :)
Right, but the phrase "you are consecrated to me" is more likely to imply a holy context, like "you are holy/sacred/blessed to me". In other words, "I cherish you almost as much as I cherish God himself as signified by this ring."
Magic_Salad0892
03-18-13, 09:26
I'll be honest, I haven't played WoW in about 4 years, but the word "consecrate" is still associated in my mind with a pbaoedot paladin spell.
Best comment in the thread. Angwe would be proud.
MountainRaven
03-18-13, 10:34
Right, but the phrase "you are consecrated to me" is more likely to imply a holy context, like "you are holy/sacred/blessed to me". In other words, "I cherish you almost as much as I cherish God himself as signified by this ring."
I think that 'you are consecrated to me' is a somewhat archaic phrase and what you have written is basically correct, but I think the more correcter meaning would be 'our union is made holy, as signified by this ring'. (Which ties in with 'holy matrimony' and all that.)
The wording for the wedding phrase is incorrect for traditional Judaism.
The groom takes a plain gold ring and places it on the index finger of the bride, then recites in the presence of two witnesses, "Behold you are sanctified to me with this ring, according to the Law of Moses and Israel."
The ring symbolizes the concept of the groom encircling, protecting, and providing for his wife. Transferrring the ring to the bride fulfills the technical requirement of giving the bride something of value to effect and formalize her change in status from single to married. The shape of the ring, an endless circle, is a way of expressing the hope that the love between the two should be endless. It also symbolizes the endless love of G-d; depicted in Jewish thought as the "Groom" of His beloved "Bride," the Jewish people.
As a Jew that practices Orthodox Judaism, I can asssure you this is correct.
To me, initiate. But in this context probably to set apart.
So, how do you come to this conclusion then in you .0?
"Basically it was almost the symbol of a slave and the wife was bound to remind her of ownership."
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"Basically it was almost the symbol of a slave and the wife was bound to remind her of ownership."
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This is not correct.
This is not correct.
It is the claim of the .0 OP, not mine.
I am asking how he got the conclusion.
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It is the claim of the .0 OP, not mine.
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I know. Making sure all know this. Where in UT are you? Just moved around 45min. north of SLC.
It is the claim of the .0 OP, not mine.
I am asking how he got the conclusion.
--
I got what you were saying :)
I would guess like the anti gun folks picks out little things and twists them and repeats them until they think its true or read it on some anti gun site they feel the facts are true when it fits them
Just replace religion with gun in this case !
Like the anti gun folks they dont understand the truth the history or meaning its a lost cause to even try after all the facts are layed out multiple times :)
I know. Making sure all know this. Where in UT are you? Just moved around 45min. north of SLC.
In the SL Valley. Extreme west side, 2/3rds the way down.
--
So, how do you come to this conclusion then in you .0?
"Basically it was almost the symbol of a slave and the wife was bound to remind her of ownership."
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I cannot believe I am the only person who has not heard of the ancient practice in this context.
http://sorella.hubpages.com/hub/The-History-of-Engagement-RIngs
The Romans also used rings to indicate positions of slavery and mastery, with different groups entitled to wear rings of different metal. It is believed that women where actually possessed or owned by the man and were likely to have worn iron rings, similar to that of slaves. With changes in laws and emperors, different metals were added into the mix, resulting in a gold used in much later years.
As for OT weddings, I thought it was well known that the woman essentially became the property of the man.
I got what you were saying :)
I would guess like the anti gun folks picks out little things and twists them and repeats them until they think its true or read it on some anti gun site they feel the facts are true when it fits them
Just replace religion with gun in this case !
Like the anti gun folks they dont understand the truth the history or meaning its a lost cause to even try after all the facts are layed out multiple times :)
Can you please not be so condescending.
And this has hardly been decided with the facts. You presented all the well known modern interpretations of the symbol. Then tried to support it with Egyptian examples.
If can be hard to find the less flattering meanings of some things, especially if they are associated with religion and provide sources. But this is hardly a religious bashing thread. It kinda pisses me off honestly that you are suggesting I am bashing religion in this topic.
I happen to be married, I also wear a ring. I just thought the subject was interesting. I'm trying to dig up the books where I read the original symbolism of the rings.
I cannot believe I am the only person who has not heard of the ancient practice in this context.
I don't know what you've "heard." I am only questioning your conclusion of the meaning of the ring based on Jewish marriage vows/rituals.
http://sorella.hubpages.com/hub/The-History-of-Engagement-RIngs
The Romans also used rings to indicate positions of slavery and mastery, with different groups entitled to wear rings of different metal. It is believed that women where actually possessed or owned by the man and were likely to have worn iron rings, similar to that of slaves. With changes in laws and emperors, different metals were added into the mix, resulting in a gold used in much later years.
I am not sure how this supports your .0 OP contention.
Romans using rings for slavery and Romans also using rings for marriage purposes does not equate them.
As for OT weddings, I thought it was well known that the woman essentially became the property of the man.
In some cultures. Not all cultures, and you certainly have not supported the idea that our custom for the ring is linked to that idea with proof being Jewish marriage rituals/vows.
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In some cultures. Not all cultures, and you certainly have not supported the idea that our custom for the ring is linked to that idea with proof being Jewish marriage rituals/vows.
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And I'm trying to find it. Unfortunately my source was not internet based.
Also just so we are clear, this was not unique to Judaism (nor a criticism of it), but as Judaism was the original source for Judeo / Christian traditions, I was trying to offer the biblical foundation for the idea.
And are you saying that in OT times the woman did not become the property of the husband in Judeo / Christian traditions?
First off my views on anti religious folks are what I stated !
If you feel that is condescending well thats your problem not mine !
Did I say your name ? Its what I feel about all anti religious folks and anti gun folks ! They often dont know what they are talking about
To try to turn it into attack on you ? Come on your tougher and better than that !
I did not give just the modern and try to back it up with egyptian mention
I gave some rough timelines or stages and known facts
First you mention wedding rings !
I gave solid well known history your facts were wrong !
Then you started stating traditions ? again wrong
Now its engagement rings ?
Now you are linking some article with some truth but has some theory how cave men did things ?
Hahahahaahahha
Glad your married :) so am I and lots of folks ! Does not make them a expert on history of rings
I try to know history and facts about weddings since I work in the industry also I stick to known facts not articles that have " May Haves" and theories about cave men !
And when written from a jewelry designer I would for sure double check those facts !
Can you please not be so condescending.
And this has hardly been decided with the facts. You presented all the well known modern interpretations of the symbol. Then tried to support it with Egyptian examples.
If can be hard to find the less flattering meanings of some things, especially if they are associated with religion and provide sources. But this is hardly a religious bashing thread. It kinda pisses me off honestly that you are suggesting I am bashing religion in this topic.
I happen to be married, I also wear a ring. I just thought the subject was interesting. I'm trying to dig up the books where I read the original symbolism of the rings.
OK, hard to find sources on the internet but it seems I'm hardly alone in this misguided, insane suggestion.
http://blog.mfitdesign.com/learning-about-the-history-of-wedding-rings/
The history of wedding rings is not written in stone but there are several facts that have been documented throughout time.
Many experts and researchers believe the history of wedding rings dates back to medieval times when round fetters were worn, a symbol showing that a certain woman was the property of a certain man. However, other historians believe the presentation of the round fetter was more an act of friendship or good faith by people living during the cave dwelling era.
If you feel that is condescending well thats your problem not mine !
Did I say your name ? Its what I feel about all anti religious folks and anti gun folks ! They often dont know what they are talking about
To try to turn it into attack on you ? Come on your tougher and better than that !
I was the ONLY person being debated.
I gave solid well known history your facts were wrong !
See Post #64.
Please note the use of the words "experts" and "medieval times."
Do you believe in Global warming ?
Lots also believe man is evil and causing global warming
WOW you found a internet article picking out one slice of time where they think woman were property of man !
Of course not sure maybe cave man to !
But the fact your article says some think it dates back to medieval times ? And mentions fetter ? And somehow tries to link this to wedding rings ?
Also look up the word fettered !
So yes in history if you fettered them chances are you were what the word means
Yes I am sure that is how some folks saw it as owning their woman ? And some still do in some countries
That does not mean that is what its about ?
That article is beyond stupid IMHO
Can see someone in our future
We found handcuffs so we think this is how men married their woman
OK, hard to find sources on the internet but it seems I'm hardly alone in this misguided, insane suggestion.
http://blog.mfitdesign.com/learning-about-the-history-of-wedding-rings/
The history of wedding rings is not written in stone but there are several facts that have been documented throughout time.
Many experts and researchers believe the history of wedding rings dates back to medieval times when round fetters were worn, a symbol showing that a certain woman was the property of a certain man. However, other historians believe the presentation of the round fetter was more an act of friendship or good faith by people living during the cave dwelling era.
Do you believe in Global warming ?
Lots also believe man is evil and causing global warming !
like global warming and anti religion folks stick together and post things to boost up their facts that they cherry picked and changed to fit their position :)
WOW you found a internet article picking out one slice of time where they think woman were property of man !
Of course not sure maybe cave man to !
Congrats you win oh man I am so stupid you are so smart !
Ignore timeline of romans and egyptians and history
Forget I covered way before and after that timeline :)
Hahahahahah
You really are taking this ball and running with it.
First of all, you aren't debating me. You are debating other experts who hold this opinion.
All I did was start a topic I thought was "interesting." I'm clearly not as invested in the subject as you.
I have read this several times in several sources over the years. I was trying to dig up the books so that I could provide those sources. But honestly given your replies "why bother" you will just ignore those sources and compare them to anti gun views or global warming websites.
You were the one who came along and more said I was flat out "wrong" so I did my best to provide you with supporting sources. And rather than come to the conclusion that "experts disagree" you seem to want to make this a personal attack of some kind.
Not once have I tried to belittle you or your views. I also tried to be as specific as possible as to what wedding rings originally represented in our culture which is based upon Judeo Christian traditions. I have no idea what was done in China for example, nor do I feel it is relevant. What I believe is relevant is how they were viewed in medieval times for example.
The "cave man" theory was there simply to be complete and not try and engage in selective sourcing. Obviously, anything from "pre history" is less reliable than ideas from medieval times. More importantly the "cave man" theory that you use to discredit this POV isn't even supportive of the idea and can be completely discarded from the discussion as not relevant in the same way Egyptian traditions are not relevant.
Roman traditions, which ironically have examples of BOTH ideas, can be considered a founding influence of course. The problem with considering Roman traditions is there are two Romes to consider, pagan and christian Rome. And of course the fact that both ideas are found in Roman culture so the Rome example hardly resolves the debate.
At any rate, this isn't some made up insane view of 911 conspiracists. This is apparently one of the many original symbolic meanings of the wedding ring. If you disagree, your disagreement is not with me but with all the historians and experts who disagree with you.
Hopefully that addresses everything and there is no further need for any discussion on this matter between us.
1. Wedding rings - I know every wedding you go to you have to listen to some stupid vow about how the ring is a perfect circle and thus a symbol for undying love without end or beginning or some nonsense to that effect. The reality is they are a symbol of bondage in the Judeo / Christian tradition. And by bondage I mean slavery not promises of S&M fun and games.
Sorry your post is wrong IMHO and history does not support this view only a few things you could find do ?
And both articles mention idiot things like cave men and in medieval times people used shackles so they think that related to wedding rings somehow ?
Again like anti folks making huge leaps to prove and connect a point of view
You just are not happy I did not agree with your conclusions ?
And yes a few points in time a few people in time viewed it as you do !
Then again in history of USA are we a country about freedom ?
Some would say we are about slavery and thinking blacks are not human since some people in our countries history thought this and still do !
And I could find some internet articles that support this viewpoint !
Of course we know this is not the case ! But some people could try to make it sound like it is !
Do you argue that we had this point in History !
Or do you say this never happened ?
Or do you feel it was just a small time and part of our history but not what the USA is about and that small group is not representative of the USA as a whole ?
So what would people say in the future about the USA if they took those pieces of time and said that is what the USA was about ! Would that make it true !
Sorry your post is wrong IMHO and history does not support this view only a few things you could find do ?
Well at least you are now offering your view as opinion.
You just are not happy I did not agree with your conclusions ?
I honestly don't care. This was a topic of diversion that included the meaning of the word mortgage and one of the origins of polish jokes. It's that important to me.
And yes a few points in time a few people in time viewed it as you do !
HOLY SHIT. That is the ONLY thing I've been saying. I didn't say it is the modern meaning, I don't think I've disputed that there are other meanings.
And just for further clarification, this isn't "my" view. The only thing my post did was recognize it as one of the original meanings of the symbol.
Yes IMHO you are wrong and History is on my side my view is Correct not yours :)
Kinda like you dont seem to understand words in quotes you pull out and then say well words can mean other things ! Hhahahahah
It was never the original meaning !
It was what some folks decided to think it was again you keep saying it was the original meeting ?
If you said the original meeting was about a eternity together and a few folks decided to think it was about enslaving their wives but you did not
Obvious you dont care :) then why try to defend your viewpoint and not just say wow did not know the correct history my statement was wrong ? If you dont care and its not your viewpoint should be easy to say something I read and believed was not true !
Like medieval shackles were used as wedding rings ! That is a reach
The sources you have keep throwing in cave men ?
Again like our country and what it stands for is not about slavery
Just cause some want to think so does not make it true !
Agree what you wrote is good humor and about as true as polish jokes !
Obvious you dont care :) then why try to defend your viewpoint and not just say wow did not know the correct history my statement was wrong ? If you dont care and its not your viewpoint should be easy to say something I read and believed was not true !
Because it seems there is more than one correct view and I was hoping to just explain that so I wouldn't have to keep having this conversation. Obviously that didn't work well so I'll just leave it with what YOU wrote.
And yes a few points in time a few people in time viewed it as you do !
I never said there weren't other meanings, I never said other cultures didn't have other views.
However I will say this "I've offered a view that even you acknowledge existed at some point in history and that is all I ever attempted."
So I'll leave you to this topic to complain and keep trying to discredit me as if "I" were the one who discovered this. Feel free to keep trying to draw parallels to slavery, global warming and anti gun views. You are obviously way more invested in this subject than I am.
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