View Full Version : RANT: 45 degree/Off-set iron sight options (Current Market SUCKS!)
Low power/variable magnification optics on AR platform rifles have been widely accepted as a viable sighting option for a minimum of what, 7 years now?
Then why in the hell havent manufacturers caught up with off-set back-up iron sight options???
You have the Dueck Defense sights which are great but in my opinion are overpriced and the rear elevation drum is not needed for most. Being fixed, they offer a snag hazard and ergonomic issue for some shooting situations.
The KAC Micro off-set sights are very desireable, but they are unobtainable for the most part.
The yet to be released flip-OUT off-set sights from DiamondHead look like a great option, but are also not currently available.
Sure, you can run standard in line flip-up iron sights under your scope but having to remove the scope to deploy them is a non-starter in my book.
It seems that there is a huge void of options for off-set flip-up iron sights in the market for those of us who run variable optics on our ARs, so why has the market not responded?
Probably because offset sights are stupid for anyone other than some kind of competition shooter. I used a 4 power ACOG for a lot of years including in urban environments and never needed or wanted offset sights. I did have flip up BUIS and a quick detach mount for the ACOG in the event it was ever damaged.
If you're gonna be HSLD, do it right.
Offset T-1 Micro.
Probably because offset sights are stupid for anyone other than some kind of competition shooter.
Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't call Kyle Defoor "stupid" or tell him that he's not "doing it right".
http://kyledefoor.tumblr.com/post/27550097175/dueck-defense-sights-the-world-of-3-gun-has
http://kyledefoor.tumblr.com/post/34739173583/shooting-and-working-in-severe-weather
On a Recce/SPR-type intermediate distance gun, I would love to have OFFSET AND FIXED iron sights similar to the Daniel Defense A1.5 sight or LaRue fixed BUIS w/o QR.
Travelingchild
03-16-13, 20:33
What ever happened to the Noveske offsets for TroyRails?
MountainRaven
03-16-13, 20:40
If the next place that we fight in is Korea, you bet your butt the aftermarket will catch up and we'll suddenly find enough options to drown in.
Failure2Stop
03-16-13, 20:59
I have become more and more of a fan of offset irons, though the reality is that most people, even those that are engaged in combat operations against a real enemy will never "need" back up irons.
That being said, I prefer the KAC versions, as they are unobtrusive when stowed, and very usable when deployed. Their availability will be getting a lot better soon.
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...though the reality is that most people, even those that are engaged in combat operations against a real enemy will never "need" back up irons.
Agreed. I haven't yet found the reason I "need" offset sights.
That being said, I would buy a pair if you guys didn't hate left-handed shooters* ;)
(It's not ambidextrous if you have run them backwards on the other side of the gun)
If you're gonna be HSLD, do it right.
Offset T-1 Micro.
Or even less drag, an offset RMR.
I have become more and more of a fan of offset irons, though the reality is that most people, even those that are engaged in combat operations against a real enemy will never "need" back up irons.
That being said, I prefer the KAC versions, as they are unobtrusive when stowed, and very usable when deployed. Their availability will be getting a lot better soon.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
It seems to me that having flip up offset sights would defeat the purpose. If you need offset sights, you need them now, yes?
It seems to me that having flip up offset sights would defeat the purpose. If you need offset sights, you need them now, yes?
Everything is a compromise. I like to keep my work rifles as slick as possible so fixed off-set sights don't work for me. They also provide a potential snag point and can also get in the way when shooting around some barricades.
Plus, you can always run the off-set KAC Micros in the up position anyway.
Probably because offset sights are stupid for anyone other than some kind of competition shooter. I used a 4 power ACOG for a lot of years including in urban environments and never needed or wanted offset sights. I did have flip up BUIS and a quick detach mount for the ACOG in the event it was ever damaged.
:rolleyes:
Do you mean "stupid" for use by dudes like Kyle Defoor or Jerry Barnhart who has trained some of our most elite special operations units?
If you're gonna be HSLD, do it right.
Offset T-1 Micro.
Its got nothing to do with being "HSLD". Just need a lightweight back-up sighting system incase my 1-6x goes down for some reason.
Id also rather not drop $500-$600+ on a back-up sighting system either ;)
Why not use your magnified red dot as an occluded eye gunsight (collimator) as needed? No need for offsets or whatnot...
"IF" it got damaged or obstructed to the point that it was not useable it would be useful to have a set of irons sights to default to. Plus, having a set of iron sights that are viewable without having to remove the optic is required by my agency along with many others that I know of.
"Plus, having a set of iron sights that are viewable without having to remove the optic is required by my agency along with many others that I know of."
Ahh, sorry missed that part. That sucks. Seems so "bassackwards" that one is forced to hang more and more shit off a working gun these days. Good luck in your quest!
Their availability will be getting a lot better soon.
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Can you elaborate?
:rolleyes:
Do you mean "stupid" for use by dudes like Kyle Defoor or Jerry Barnhart who has trained some of our most elite special operations units?
"Stupid" might not be the best choice of words, but I'm pretty sure they never had offset sites while they were operational. Just because KD, JB, or (insert popular ex-Ninja-Recon-SEAL) use them, has absolutely no weight in an argument for someone who's spent the last ten years playing the GWOT game without them.
I've made comments like "I wish I had that back in 05", but at the end of the day you come to the conclusion that you went without.
I'm not championing for or against their use, all I have is my experience of never needing them or even wishing I would have had them. I'm all for any product that gives our shooters an edge in a gunfight but it takes more than a popular shooting instructor's opinion to change mine.
"Stupid" might not be the best choice of words, but I'm pretty sure they never had offset sites while they were operational. Just because KD, JB, or (insert popular ex-Ninja-Recon-SEAL) use them, has absolutely no weight in an argument for someone who's spent the last ten years playing the GWOT game without them.
I've made comments like "I wish I had that back in 05", but at the end of the day you come to the conclusion that you went without.
I'm not championing for or against their use, all I have is my experience of never needing them or even wishing I would have had them. I'm all for any product that gives our shooters an edge in a gunfight but it takes more than a popular shooting instructor's opinion to change mine.
Thats great, but I never advocated off-set sights simply because of their use by Defoor or Barnhart. My comment that you quoted was in response another members blanket statement that the off-set sights concept was "stupid" for anyone but competition shooters.
But anyway, how about the simple fact that they make sense for their intended application.
Its got nothing to do with being "HSLD". Just need a lightweight back-up sighting system incase my 1-6x goes down for some reason.
Id also rather not drop $500-$600+ on a back-up sighting system either ;)
I'd damn near put a bet on the 1-6X not going down. Good magnified optics are tough... Probably tougher than most buis...
Maybe "stupid" was a poor choice of words. Thank you for capturing my intent, Dave L.
I guess we should all have BAD levers because Travis Haley has one.
Maybe "stupid" was a poor choice of words. Thank you for capturing my intent, Dave L.
I guess we should all have BAD levers because Travis Haley has one.
Or better yet, how about everyone carry only what Uncle Sam thinks our troops should carry and everyone just keep the G.I. blinders on?
Redbeardsong
03-17-13, 09:47
GG&G debuted these at SHOT show this year and I liked them a lot. Much smaller than the Dueck sights and cheaper, too.
http://www.gggaz.com/45-degree-transition-sights.html
You can afford a 1-6 scope but can't afford a set of offset irons?
What could possibly put your scope down (besides actually having a bullet go through it or frag from your patrol car being blown up by an IED)?
There's always been the simple JP irons, probably 25 years old by now:
http://www.westernshooter.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/JP-SRTS-with-plastic-inserts.jpg
or you can always buy 45 degree mount bases and put on your own favorite folders:
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/skus/p_100002095_1.jpg
Even the best optics can fog up. Switching to offsets is faster than pulling your optic off.
thopkins22
03-17-13, 11:29
Even the best optics can fog up. Switching to offsets is faster than pulling your optic off.
Yep. People keep talking about it flat out breaking, which is not the real issue.
Fog, rain, snow, ice, mud, and so many other things can shut your shit down with a quickness.
Also, having an instantly viewable 1x option(and keeping with the principle that you should always have irons on a rifle) allows you to utilize scopes up top that based on their power you might have previously discounted for a fighting rifle.
Failure2Stop
03-17-13, 11:44
It seems to me that having flip up offset sights would defeat the purpose. If you need offset sights, you need them now, yes?
It depends on the context of your use.
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Or better yet, how about everyone carry only what Uncle Sam thinks our troops should carry and everyone just keep the G.I. blinders on?
I hope you are not taking a shot at grunts who use what they are given (with no choice).
It depends on the context of your use.
I would like them for two purposes: get my scope as low as possible on the rail and keep my PEQ-15 unobstructed(assuming it would accomplish this).
Troy's are very fat to mount in front of a PEQ-15; barely works.
Hopefully I didn't hurt any feelings with this post, I realize it's an emotional topic.
I hope you are not taking a shot at grunts who use what they are given (with no choice).
Negative. It was a shot at ANYONE who refuses to see ANY utility outside of ANYTHING that wasn't issued to them 10+ years ago by Uncle Sam.
Negative. It was a shot at ANYONE who refuse to see ANY utility outside of ANYTHING that wasn't issued to them 10+ years ago by Uncle Sam.
You're right, I'm going to go complain to my superiors about lack of utility :rolleyes:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/laninga66/IMG_0028a.jpg
I'm out.
It was directed at me, and it's a bit of an exaggeration. Anyway, I apologize for having a condescending tone in previous posts.
I simply don't see the point of over complicating things by having different sighting systems on the same weapon. In my experience in CQB environments things can get hectic enough. I could be wrong, though, I have never trained with or utilized offset sights in real world. I've always done alright using my ACOG like the sight on a MGL or just point shooting.
Failure2Stop
03-17-13, 13:55
I would like them for two purposes: get my scope as low as possible on the rail and keep my PEQ-15 unobstructed(assuming it would accomplish this).
Troy's are very fat to mount in front of a PEQ-15; barely works.
Hopefully I didn't hurt any feelings with this post, I realize it's an emotional topic.
Should work, depends on where you have space available in regard to the 15.
I really don't know how emotional a thread on offset 45s can be, but I'm certainly not too insulted.
I really like them with higher magnification optics. For a close to midrange application I prefer to dump the optic if I have to go to irons. The offset 45s shine with an optic that is hard-mounted to the upper.
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While I know they seem unfavorable XS makes an off-set pair of irons. I dunno... Just a FYI, I don't think I would like them.
http://www.xssights.com/index.php?nID=sights&cID=Sights&pID=sights
You can afford a 1-6 scope but can't afford a set of offset irons?
I would actually buy a set of the KAC flip-up off-sets today if they were available, but since you asked: NO, I cant afford either the scope or the irons really. I'm sure most here can relate ;)
What could possibly put your scope down (besides actually having a bullet go through it or frag from your patrol car being blown up by an IED)?
As thopkins22 & War Face mentioned, its not only in-case the scope gets damaged but other factors can take an optic out of commission if even for a second or two when you need it. I can't tell you how many times I stepped up to the line to run a drill and exhaled a deep breath as I prepped for the shot timer to go off. Then I brought my optic up intent on getting a sight picture only to realize that I completely fogged up the optic with my gorilla breath. I have also had clumps of muddy clay jump off the berm during classes with multiple shooters on the line and land directly on the front lens of my optic and completely obstruct my view.
And as I mentioned previously, useable iron sights are required by my agency and must be viewable without needing to remove the optic.
When I was in Iraq I dropped my M203, which landed upside down on concrete, on the Trijicon Reflex I had mounted. It only fell from my cot, but it wonked the sight badly.
Anybody who can't see how an optic might get damaged lacks experience or imagination.
When I was in Iraq I dropped my M203, which landed upside down on concrete, on the Trijicon Reflex I had mounted. It only fell from my cot, but it wonked the sight badly.
Anybody who can't see how an optic might get damaged lacks experience or imagination.
I didn't know m203s could be used stand-alone? I know m320s can.
I'm not calling you out, but I'm just curious on your weapon system.
Leonidas24
03-18-13, 01:37
I didn't know m203s could be used stand-alone? I know m320s can.
I'm not calling you out, but I'm just curious on your weapon system.
KAC makes a standalone module for the M203, and I believe LMT does as well. I never saw them put to use but my battalion had a few in the HHC armory.
Failure2Stop
03-18-13, 07:50
I didn't know m203s could be used stand-alone? I know m320s can.
I'm not calling you out, but I'm just curious on your weapon system.
There are indeed M203 standalones.
Further, the M16/M4 w/ M203 is frequently simply referred to as a "203".
Failure2Stop
03-18-13, 07:52
You're right, I'm going to go complain to my superiors about lack of utility :rolleyes:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/laninga66/IMG_0028a.jpg
I'm out.
Just saw this pic in decent detail.
Pretty neat. Bet there's an interesting story on that blaster.
Thanks for posting.
Just saw this pic in decent detail.
Pretty neat. Bet there's an interesting story on that blaster.
Thanks for posting.
Nah, I just keep it near my bed for things that might go bump in the night ;)
But seriously, it's boringly reliable and a pleasure to shoot.
how about everyone carry only what Uncle Sam thinks our troops should carry and everyone just keep the G.I. blinders on?
I'm in! :cool:
I didn't know m203s could be used stand-alone? I know m320s can.
I'm not calling you out, but I'm just curious on your weapon system.
On the M16A1 with an M203 mounted, the nomenclature of the system (rifle and launcher) changed to M203 so long as the M203 was mounted.
I don't know if the naming convention is still the same, but the weapon in question was an M4 with an M203 mounted to it.
Having had optics fail on a real-world mission where I was being shot at I completely understand NEEDING irons as a back-up. ALL my optic-equipped rifles are backed up.
What I don't understand is having a mission REQUIREMENT for them and either not being supplied or buying them yourself (even if you provide your own interim band-aid -- instead of bitching about it).
It's either a requirement or not, and you've fixed it or not. Sua sponte -- Do It instead of whining.
Dueck sights are pricey, got it. SARCO carries a knock-off set for under $70 -- I don't know if they're Chinese or not. Angle mounts are available from a bunch of manufacturers, and you can get a set of cheap irons from as many other retailers.
I bought the KAC offset sights to try the concept. I like irons because they are a "backup" and wont run out of batteries.
Also, if your primary optic fogs up due to extreme temperature changes or humidity, so will a offset Micro or RMR.
Yes, you can get the QDs to take off your primary to run your in line irons, but that can take some time depending on what kind you run / how tight they are. My ADMs are pretty tight and getting them both off quickly takes a bit, since they need to be tight on my SCARs (I've had the 17 shake them off when they were reversed and running forward - happened twice).
They do have their limitations and yes they take a second to deploy (I typically put them up as soon as I hit the range or go out hunting, just like flipping up the lens caps on my primary optics). Yes they can get bumped down, but hey all sorts of shit can happen.
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/673F8BFB-C6D0-4690-882B-0A3C965FDAD2-19543-000005166F508A20.jpg
My sight in my right eye isn't very good so I shoot left handed. If I need to shoot from my right side I need sights on the left of the gun so I can sight with my left eye. It has nothing to do with close versus long distance engagements, but everything to do with flexibility.
Separate risers and sights do that for me.
Rick
TheToad263
03-26-13, 16:54
Low power/variable magnification optics on AR platform rifles have been widely accepted as a viable sighting option for a minimum of what, 7 years now?
Then why in the hell havent manufacturers caught up with off-set back-up iron sight options???
You have the Dueck Defense sights which are great but in my opinion are overpriced and the rear elevation drum is not needed for most. Being fixed, they offer a snag hazard and ergonomic issue for some shooting situations.
The KAC Micro off-set sights are very desireable, but they are unobtainable for the most part.
The yet to be released flip-OUT off-set sights from DiamondHead look like a great option, but are also not currently available.
Sure, you can run standard in line flip-up iron sights under your scope but having to remove the scope to deploy them is a non-starter in my book.
It seems that there is a huge void of options for off-set flip-up iron sights in the market for those of us who run variable optics on our ARs, so why has the market not responded?
I'm not sure if you know about them and just didn't mention them but there are a few other offset irons that you could look at. One that I really like and that don't get brought up much in these discussions are the DPMS mangonel sights. They are flip-up ones but they are designed differently than most flip up sights. If you are looking for something different, these might be them. Also, this may not be what you want but they make these rail type set ups that include the front and rear aperture connected to the front and back of a mount separated by about 4-6 inches... I personally don't like them but take a look. Also, if you didn't realize, they make offset rails specifically for this purpose. So, you can simply choose whatever standard flip up iron sights that you prefer and then mount them to the offset mounts... some good choices for flip up irons would be, the wilson combat flip up irons, the troy flip up irons, the KAC flip up 200-600m... even the Magpul polymer sights if you're into that...
As far as what the guy said about offset irons only being useful for gamers and 3-gunners.... for the most part you're right. The only time you will ever really be in a shooting situation where you have to transition from aiming at a target through a magnified optic to a much closer target in a split second is either in competition shooting, or in an actual combat situation. However, just because they aren't completely necessary doesn't mean that using them and practicing with them is a waste of time.... First of all, if you have a scope permanently mounted, its the only way to have iron sights in the first place. But even if your scope is detachable, using your iron sights when they are mounted at 12 o'clock is a pain. It is much simpler to simply keep the scope mounted and use offset iron sights.... I like them... and while I am sure that many like them more for their cool factor than for their actual purpose, they are still the best option for BUIS on an AR with a scope.
Oh and by the way, to the OP.... the Dueck Defense sights that are so overpriced... if I'm not mistaken, they are cheaper than the diamondback sights you wanted... not by much but I think they are a bit cheaper, depending on the option you choose. I personally think the Dueck model is better. I like the non-flip up style of the Dueck Defense ones. The whole point of an offset iron sight is to be able to quickly transition from scope to iron sights at the drop of a hat. But if you have flip up irons, you may have forgotten to flip them up, and therefore having to go and deploy the iron sights ends up defeating the whole purpose.... plus I think the diamondhead offset sights are a bit too complicated and funky for me.... looks like a problem waiting to itself.
ltdanicecream
03-26-13, 17:29
I got a cheapo set of offset sights on Amazon, I used them a few times and ditched them for a some Troy BUIS. If my scope failed I'd rather just switch to the Troys instead of having the offsets hanging off the side all the time.
30 cal slut
03-27-13, 06:22
i trained with a (f/k/a) northern red instructor who had a lot of experience killing bad guys overseas (in close quarters). i noticed he had some offset irons on his primary blaster - 2 o'clock ish position.
with a simple master hand "palm-down" motion, he had irons in case his optic failed.
i like the concept. i guess the hardest part about this is prioritizing rail real estate, especially on a carbine-length rail system.
Here's my question....if you were to run two 45* mounts with flip up BUIS, which brand/model BUIS would be preferable in this role?
The ones you can see to shoot with the quickest and most accurately.
The ones you can see to shoot with the quickest and most accurately.
Ok well played :D
I guess what I'm asking for is what features are more desireable? Such as metal vs polymer, or manual deployment vs. spring action deployment, or locking detent vs. a fold back ability if banged against something. Since these are on the side of the gun, I would imagine that they are more prone to getting banged around, especially if used in a structure when rounding corners, ect. Some features may be better than others when it comes to this.
Although, I'm not really convinced that offset irons are the intended niche for a CQB "hunter" environment....
The Duecks are a good starting point, but as noted some don't like all the moving parts. I'd get a fixed front and maybe a fixed rear like the Daniel or an A1:
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/primary/672/672734.jpg
If you don't like an aperture you can try a notched one like Jim Smith's:
http://www.shootingillustrated.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/050.jpg
Folders again would be preference and how much you want to spend.
The Duecks are a good starting point, but as noted some don't like all the moving parts. I'd get a fixed front and maybe a fixed rear like the Daniel or an A1:
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/primary/672/672734.jpg
If you don't like an aperture you can try a notched one like Jim Smith's:
http://www.shootingillustrated.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/050.jpg
Folders again would be preference and how much you want to spend.
So fixed is the way to go then I guess...those Smith's do look interesting, I'll have to look into them. Thanks for the suggestion.
In your opinion, what niche these really fill best? On a precision rig where you want the capability to sight close in vs. a CQB rig where you'll be clearing structures and doing lots of movement and close in stuff?
Just thinking out loud, but with a CQB rig, if your primary sight goes down, then you could either "shoot through the tube" or transition to a secondary just as efficient/effective as turning a rifle over 45*....is my line of thought on track?
Correct -- aim and shoot through an EO window or through the Aimpoint tube using your on-board irons if you're in-close.
Offset 45s are best if you have any magnification and you have either a fogged tube or it's dark and you're inside and close to your targets. Having used a 3-10 and being within 15-25 yards you can completely miss or bypass a target if your eye is in the scope.
Not a problem if playing IPSC games (beside the "Mikes" and penalty points), but it could get you dead if in true combat and you haven't tried it and found out yourself.
Correct -- aim and shoot through an EO window or through the Aimpoint tube using your on-board irons if you're in-close.
Offset 45s are best if you have any magnification and you have either a fogged tube or it's dark and you're inside and close to your targets. Having used a 3-10 and being within 15-25 yards you can completely miss or bypass a target if your eye is in the scope.
Not a problem if playing IPSC games (beside the "Mikes" and penalty points), but it could get you dead if in true combat and you haven't tried it and found out yourself.
Right on. Thanks for the guidance, Sinister.
Heres a good promo vid from KAC showing the off-set Micros in use by JB:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxNlJ_mjMwk
Oh and by the way, to the OP.... the Dueck Defense sights that are so overpriced... if I'm not mistaken, they are cheaper than the diamondback sights you wanted... not by much but I think they are a bit cheaper, depending on the option you choose. I personally think the Dueck model is better. I like the non-flip up style of the Dueck Defense ones. The whole point of an offset iron sight is to be able to quickly transition from scope to iron sights at the drop of a hat. But if you have flip up irons, you may have forgotten to flip them up, and therefore having to go and deploy the iron sights ends up defeating the whole purpose.... plus I think the diamondhead offset sights are a bit too complicated and funky for me.... looks like a problem waiting to itself.
Its not that the Duecks are too pricey for me, I just think they are overpriced for what they are which is basically an off-set set of A2 sights.
Im going with the KAC Micros once available. I like that they can be run UP and can be simply folded down if they get in the way when shooting around corners/barricades, etc.
DSG has a set of XS offset sights listed as well for another option. I don't have them, or know anything about them, but came across them a few days ago for what it's worth:
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/XSAR-0007-4.aspx
I will stop whining now....
http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/7914/97758360944336565518235.jpg
;)
Come on now...you know you have to share details.
My guess:
Either you got a set of Magpul's new sights (at least that's what they look like) and put them on an offset base....or these are a set of offset sights by Magpul that they've hinted about...:)
Nooooo, I don't have those kind of connections! They're KAC 45° off-set Micros.
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/5135/22853945121289497092042.jpg
Nooooo, I don't have those kind of connections! They're KAC 45° off-set Micros.
Haha gotcha, very nice! I didn't realize how much the Magpul and KAC front sights looked alike...
KAC sights came before Magpul, not that MP has even hinted they'll even do offsets... recage yourself. ;)
KAC sights came before Magpul, not that MP has even hinted they'll even do offsets... recage yourself. ;)
Right you are. And yes they did ;)
If they'd only fit a MUR. :(
-Jax
I will stop whining now....
http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/7914/97758360944336565518235.jpg
;)
I'll carry on the whining for a set of simple, FIXED offset sights at a reasonable cost like the DD A1.5.
:p
i wonder when a company like larue will make scope mounts that have offset irons built in on both sides.
i still don't know if i ever want to use offset irons, i'm left handed and that would mean a right hander would not be able to use the offset sights.
Those XS ones look really nice and look like they would work well mounted on the top rail with the sights real close to the optic, minimal cant.
If they'd only fit a MUR. :(
-Jax
The only ones that I think will work with a MUR are the DiamondHead D-45's
http://firespeedtactical.com/new-diamondhead-d-45-pop-up-sights/
Just curious are you pretty rural to where you wanted the 6X use?
The only ones that I think will work with a MUR are the DiamondHead D-45's
http://firespeedtactical.com/new-diamondhead-d-45-pop-up-sights/
Quite an interesting (albeit complex) design but I may try these out one day after some experimenting with other off set options. Thanks for the link.
-Jax
Just curious are you pretty rural to where you wanted the 6X use?
Yes, Chicago is super rural;)
But seriously, for work I have a similarly set-up 14.5" middy with an Eotech EXPS. I also carry the pictured upper with the Vortex 1-6x in the trunk in-case I need a more precision oriented configuration. And realistically we have schools in my jurisdiction that have hallways that are 175yds+ and the 1-6x could come in handy there too.
Yes, Chicago is super rural;)
But seriously, for work I have a similarly set-up 14.5" middy with an Eotech EXPS. I also carry the pictured upper with the Vortex 1-6x in the trunk in-case I need a more precision oriented configuration. And realistically we have schools in my jurisdiction that have hallways that are 175yds+ and the 1-6x could come in handy there too.
When I teach active shooter courses that is one of the big things I push is the long school hallways and malls. Not everything is making entry into a classroom.
MountainRaven
05-17-13, 08:30
The only ones that I think will work with a MUR are the DiamondHead D-45's
http://firespeedtactical.com/new-diamondhead-d-45-pop-up-sights/
If you just need off-set irons and don't need them to fold, the SureFires work with MURs.
KAC 45° off-set Micros in-stock here:
http://www.kingopticusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=KAC30079
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