View Full Version : Only in NJ? Cops show up after hearing about a picture...
The fight has officially been brought to my front door
Last night I was out with a buddy of mine. I got a text from my wife that the cops and dyfs are at the house and they wanna check out my guns and needed me to open my safe.
I'm instantly on my way. I get in contact with evan Nappen on the way. I explain the situation. I walk in my house and hand the phone to the first cop I see. Then direct all of em outside. Dyfs got a call because of a pic on my son holding a gun. They wanted to look around and check all my guns out, make sure they were all registered. Obviously that didn't go well because I refused. I had Nappen on speaker phone the entire time so they had to deal with both of us. They kept trying to pressure me to open my safe. They had no warrant, no charges, nothing. I didn't budge. I was told I was being "unreasonable" and that I was acting suspicious because I wouldn't open my safe. Told me they were gonna get a search warrant. Told em go ahead. Nappen (my lawyer) asked me for the dyfs workers name. she wouldnt give it. i asked for credentials and she wouldnt show em. i tried to take a pic of her and she turned around real fast and walked away. After a while of them threatening to take my kids, get warrants and intimidation they left. Empty handed and seeing nothing.
People it can happen that fast. Most people wouldn't have stood up to them like I did.
Full thread here: http://deloc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8175
Thoughts?
Magic_Salad0892
03-17-13, 19:12
Holy Christ.
Also... who were they supposed to be registered to?
My thoughts, CPS in most cases will do a home visit accompanied by a patrol unit. I think that the person from the NJ equivalent of CPS did a piss-poor job of investigation before deciding to do a home visit. I don't know who the guys in the marked unit were, If they were plain patrol, I'll give them a pass. If they were any kind of investigator, bad on them. Piss-poor pre-op investigation.
I hope this is the first and last I hear of this sort of thing happening. Overeaction and intimidation due to a picture???? Something stinks here. There must be more to the story.
Magic_Salad0892
03-17-13, 20:21
I hope they do it more. It'll provoke people.
CarlosDJackal
03-17-13, 21:21
What a bunch of crock!! So what jurisdiction did this happen at?
Holy Christ.
Also... who were they supposed to be registered to?
Hopefully someone from NJ can chime in, because I don't think NJ has any state firearms registry.
The laws in NJ are not just very restrictive, but written in a very confusing manner to both gunowners and police.
In NJ, you need a firearms owners ID to buy firearms from stores & FFL dealers, but there is no requirement to have one to own them. So people who had firearms prior to the FOID being established are exempt, as are those who move to NJ from other states as long as their firearms are NJ legal and they don't have any magazines in excess of 15 rounds.
Hopefully someone from NJ can chime in, because I don't think NJ has any state firearms registry.
The laws in NJ are not just very restrictive, but written in a very confusing manner to both gunowners and police.
In NJ, you need a firearms owners ID to buy firearms from stores & FFL dealers, but there is no requirement to have one to own them. So people who had firearms prior to the FOID being established are exempt, as are those who move to NJ from other states as long as their firearms are NJ legal and they don't have any magazines in excess of 15 rounds.
Thread says it was Carneys Point, NJ. I have no idea of the laws there. Could they have a more restrictive local law?
GeorgiaBoy
03-17-13, 23:29
Well considering this was originally posted on the Delaware Open Carry forum, and references Dyfs. which I assume to mean Delaware youth and family services, we're probably looking at the wrong state here. ;)
DYFS = New Jersey
DSCYF = Delaware
DYFS = New Jersey
DSCYF = Delaware
Yeah, I corrected it based on reading more of the original thread. :)
This is all the more reason I tell people not to answer the door for the authorities, unless you called them there!
The part about the DYFS worker being unwilling to present their credentials is where I start to wonder about this story. I'm also curious that only one crappy pic was taken of the cops standing in what appears to be the street. I would have video recorded who whole damn thing, followed the social worker to her car, taped her license plate, etc. I'd then make it my mission to crawl as far up her ass as possible in terms of publishing her private information on the internet.
If by some chance this is true, anyone coming into my home with no warrant, no credentials, and actually attempting to forceable remove my child should notify their next of kin prior to showing up for work that day.
I used to shoot with a lawyer. One thing he recommended was have a $100 cup of coffee with a lawyer and keep their business card in my wallet.
It's getting to the point that if you own guns you need it. The statist/Fabians are on the move (still) and will use the full weight of the PC government apparatus to get their way very slowly.
Carney's Point is in Salem County, which is in extreme southern Jersey on the Delaware side. Their laws are no different than the rest of the state, I'm sure the key issue here was DYFS (state's child protective services).
As some if you know I'm a sworn but volunteer member of my county's superior court. I sit on a board and review DYFS cases two days per month because it is well known here that they need oversight. They often have the sharpness of a bottom-tier TSA screener and have just as little accountability.
My guess is that an ex or some idiot who saw the picture on facebook called in a report and by law DYFS had to respond. As far as both parties (DYFS and LE) being likely to have made errors in judgment, almost a given here. But it is worth noting that Carney's Point is a rural farming area with many hunters, so it's not like we're talking city or even urban in this case.
Moose-Knuckle
03-19-13, 03:03
Godwin's Law comes to mind . . .
Wow this is just plain ridiculous.
Some additional information here:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/19/dad-this-picture-of-my-son-holding-a-gun-triggered-a-visit-from-nj-police-family-services/
What the hell is going on in this country? Unreal. What was the context of the photo?
Edit...saw the pic. Stupid dyfs. Clearly a happy kid posing for his dad.
Thoughts?
Would have gone worse for anyone who did not have a lawyer. Sadly that is what it has come to.
Foxnews has picked it up.
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/familys-home-raided-over-facebook-photo-of-childs-rifle.html
Foxnews has picked it up.
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/familys-home-raided-over-facebook-photo-of-childs-rifle.html
Good. I hope that Bill, Sean, or Megan start to crawl up the DSS worker's ass. I have no problem with the state following up on every claim. But, it should have gone something like this:
"Hi, my name is XXXX from the Department of Social Services. Here are my credentials. I'm here because someone filed an anonymous complaint over this picture (hold picture aloft). I want to thank you for teaching your child proper firearms safety that is evident by the fact that his finger is off the trigger and the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction. I'd also like to remind you that a quality gun safe is an important part of every home to protect your family and investment. Here is my card. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions about this complaint which I'm recording as unfounded. You may also contact me if you have questions about firearms safety, good local places to shoot, or hot deals on ammo. Otherwise, I'm leaving now - bye."
Good. I hope that Bill, Sean, or Megan start to crawl up the DSS worker's ass. I have no problem with the state following up on every claim. But, it should have gone something like this:
"Hi, my name is XXXX from the Department of Social Services. Here are my credentials. I'm here because someone filed an anonymous complaint over this picture (hold picture aloft). I want to thank you for teaching your child proper firearms safety that is evident by the fact that his finger is off the trigger and the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction. I'd also like to remind you that a quality gun safe is an important part of every home to protect your family and investment. Here is my card. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions about this complaint which I'm recording as unfounded. You may also contact me if you have questions about firearms safety, good local places to shoot, or hot deals on ammo. Otherwise, I'm leaving now - bye."
I sent the original link to a friend that is high up in NJ DYFS, he said that this was handled poorly and improperly, and that employees with this attitude don't last long. His only caveat was that they see so much shit that they can become calloused and assume all reports are abusing their children, but if they aren't invited into the house they must get a warrant and they always bring police when a gun is part of the report.
CarlosDJackal
03-20-13, 12:11
I don't get it. The kid was showing good muzzle and trigger finger control. :confused:
Moose-Knuckle
03-20-13, 15:16
I don't get it. The kid was showing good muzzle and trigger finger control. :confused:
Because guns are evil you see, especially that rimfire because it resembles an AR-15.
VooDoo6Actual
03-20-13, 15:30
Way bigger than just US gun rights. WAY bigger....
It's about controlling the narrative, brainwashing people, GUNS are EVIL so that as this continuing weakening of the economy or crash comes, secrets are given to Chinese et al regarding Satellite COMS & technologies, vilification of Patriots & Constitutionalists continue etc. conquest or consent.....
http://www.westernjournalism.com/obama-lets-china-steal-top-secret-nasa-technology/
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2013/03/did-obama-doj-nix-u-s-weapons-tech-espionage-probe/
http://www.americaspace.com/wp-content/uploads/space_docs/Wolf_Smith_Horowitz_Letter_Ames_ITAR_2013_02_08.pdf
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_02_18_2013_p19-548695.xml&p=1
http://www.americaspace.com/?p=32016
http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/congressmen-dispute-u.s.-attorneys-denial-that-political-interference-killed-nasa-espionage-probe/article/2522793#.UTdXVkdaQ4J
this was on Megyn Kelly show today in that legal segment they do
the other chick was saying something like well you have to call in when you see these things the kid had a gun !!!!
lucky Megyn said well their is no reason to call this in he has done nothing wrong broken no laws
of course the other nag started up well they are dangerous and blah blah blah so we need to stop these things before they happen
MAN how can someone so stupid become a lawyer !!!!
I would have loved to say well I guess then we should call in when ever we see a kid with a cell phone since so many of them kill kids when texting and driving !
would be fun to have everyone start calling in about that and over load them
use their tactics against them
I would have loved to say well I guess then we should call in when ever we see a kid with a cell phone since so many of them kill kids when texting and driving !
would be fun to have everyone start calling in about that and over load them
use their tactics against them
I would say then, in NYC, to start calling in every time you see a kid with a large bottle of Coke or Pepsi. Since he or she is killing themselves with sugar...
If by some chance this is true,
They just ran this on WRVA. The guy said they wanted him to open his safe as well.
"If you don't have anything to hide what's the problem?" The guy was NRA firearms safety instructor and kid was licensed hunter.
Also interviewed his son. Seems like a smart kid. Said he's been shooting since he was 5.
Hear home owner and son in this podcast. http://www.1140wrva.com/player/?station=WRVA-AM&program_name=podcast&program_id=LelandConway.xml&mid=23004613
Belmont31R
03-20-13, 17:09
Doesn't matter what state you live in. CPS almost always has a HUGE amount of authority and other state agencies will almost never keep them in line. If they take your kids when they shouldn't have, at most, they will get a little slap on the wrist and have to give you some tax dollars. A couple years ago they took a couple's twin babies right out of a local hospital and it took weeks for a judge to force them to give the babies back. They got a little 32k settlement, and the case work had to write a report that she understands the laws on child removal. CPS moves onto the next victim they can intimidate and threaten. Theres almost ZERO accountability and the individual case officers are almost always liberal arts leftist man haters with an axe to grind.
So if you work for a state agency, and illegally remove a child from a home you write a report...regular joe citizen would get charged with aggravated kidnapping and there would be an all out manhunt for the perp. This is why this shit happens...because if you are a gov employee you are mostly immune from the law. So these types of people can very easily get into a condition where they don't think twice about their actions and get little god complexes.
I have no problem with taking kids where there is good evidence of abuse but there needs to be more accountability, and more people involved like a check and balance system. These people need to be charged and sent to jail when they break the law or lie in court. In the case I mentioned CPS withheld evidence from the judge and nothing was done. The case worker kept her job and is still out there. Its criminal IMO that government workers with all this authority are held to a lower standard than regular private citizens. Withhold evidence, lie to a judge, take people's kids illegally, and you get a 'homework' assignment...:rolleyes:
I would say then, in NYC, to start calling in every time you see a kid with a large bottle of Coke or Pepsi. Since he or she is killing themselves with sugar...
That would be funny to do :)
Other day saw this kid in safeway about 8-10 years old maybe 200 lbs
Junk all over his shirt like food drippings they had open chips and he had one of those extral large monster drinks he was drinking and spilling on himself the mother might have been close to 350 lbs or more also food all over her shirt
And she was stuffing her face and drinking stuff also
Their cart was all junk food not one vegie or fruit or base things like canned tomatoes no milk nothing of value
Chips soda cookies sugar cereals ice cream etc...
Now its their biz but comparing that kid to the gun kid the fat kid is in much more danger and IMHO true endangering a child !
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