View Full Version : Quick question about military
I'm 20 and I don't know what to do with my life and all that. I've been stuck in a CC working towards transferring somewhere, but I really haven't doing much as far as that is concerned. It's like I don't have any specific direction or goal in mind.
All I know is that there isn't anything really that I care about the way I care about guns. I'd like to have some kind of profession in the gun industry in one way or another. I am not exactly sure of how to start towards that though.
Anyway,
I think about the military often, though I am not sure what kind of jobs I'd want to yet.
For now, I am wondering, how does one end up as a gunsmith or some specialized job involving small arms like at Quantico or Aberdeen or something like that? To say I am interested in small arms is an understatement, you know?
Thanks for any guidance guys.
skullworks
03-18-13, 02:02
You can start off attending gunsmithing school. There are several CCs offering gunsmithing; I attended Yavapai College in Prescott AZ. I would say that is easier than getting the armorer MOS in the military (Iraqgunz or someone should be able to give you some advise).
Tapatapatapatalk
Go talk to an Army recruiter and ask if the 18X (X-ray) program is still open and if you qualify for it, then go for it and get 18B (Bravo), it's not a gunsmith job but you'll be a small arms expert.
Belmont31R
03-18-13, 10:39
Very few enlisted people in the military actual work as a gunsmith fabbing things, and you would most likely get stuck doing something unrelated you don't really like or doesn't apply to what you want to learn. A lot of that stuff is done by contractors. I never encountered an enlisted person who I would call a 'gunsmith'. All the work I ever saw done was done by civilian contractors. There are a few specialized shops like at the AMU but your chances of ending up there are slim to none.
As was said theres a few good gun smithing schools in the US.
I was in about your shoes at that age, a bit younger, but got accepted to and visited the gun smithing school in Ferlach, Austria. I ended up not going because the way their schools work is if you choose not to go to college you go to a trade school of sorts which is mixed with regular HS level stuff. Id just graduated HS, and didn't want to go through all that again (all in German, too, and I didn't think I'd be able to keep up).
If you want to join the military, and work on stuff just be prepared that you could end up doing something other than what you think you will be but it could be a good gateway to get a civilian contractor job with a DOD contractor like General Dynamics or L3 or some of the other big names. However that might be a bit more challenging than it has been due to the budget cuts. These guys do hire people who were enlisted and worked on the same stuff they sell/service.
My end advice would be to go to school and finish your degree while you are still young, and have some classes done already. Iraq is done with and Afghanistan is winding down. Budget cuts are already happening, and you can always do it later if you want and go officer. Maybe look into some ROTC programs to help you keep focus in school and in shape.
At 20 I was more concerned about nailing chicks than firearms but that's another thread, good luck op...
I started to peruse through the site of that Yavapai place. App deadline isn't until August, so this gives me time to keep exploring that option.
Army Chief
03-18-13, 10:59
Go talk to an Army recruiter and ask if the 18X (X-ray) program is still open and if you qualify for it, then go for it and get 18B (Bravo), it's not a gunsmith job but you'll be a small arms expert.
Keeping in mind that this is a Special Forces MOS, it might be a bit beyond what you are looking for in terms of commitment and the amount of training required.
AC
A strong interest in guns is a weak reason to enlist.
theblackknight
03-18-13, 11:15
Dude, dont join the military. Being a gumby armorer has little to do with wrenching on guns.
UNLESS.
You could go to gunsmithing school, and then apply to the Army Marksmanship Units precision weapons shop. They recruit from the bigger smithing schools and the Brownells job fair. And for some dam reason they DONT take prior service. You would learn some stuff and get a steady income to start buying tools.
Legit gunsmiths have a lot of remote, expensive tools.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
Army Chief
03-18-13, 11:15
A strong interest in guns is a weak reason to enlist.
Asa a career solider, it pains me to say it, but you're absolutely right. You carry a weapon relatively infrequently, are extremely limited as to what you can do with it, and when, and there is little room for creativity or innovation. Meanwhile, Personally Owned Weapons are all but prohibited, and your opportunities to shoot on your off-duty time really aren't any better than the average civilian's. The Army has been very good to me for nearly 30 years, and I couldn't imagine doing anything else, but it isn't the firearms-friendly environment that one might expect it to be. In many ways, it is quite the opposite of that.
AC
Littlelebowski
03-18-13, 11:17
I strongly discourage being an armorer. I would look at infantry with a possible path to SOF.
Belmont31R
03-18-13, 11:31
Asa a career solider, it pains me to say it, but you're absolutely right. You carry a weapon relatively infrequently, are extremely limited as to what you can do with it, and when, and there is little room for creativity or innovation. Meanwhile, Personally Owned Weapons are all but prohibited, and your opportunities to shoot on your off-duty time really aren't any better than the average civilian's. The Army has been very good to me for nearly 30 years, and I couldn't imagine doing anything else, but it isn't the firearms-friendly environment that one might expect it to be. In many ways, it is quite the opposite of that.
AC
Yep. I was stationed in Germany for 4 years, and its basically impossible there nor worth the effort. I ended up getting an off-post apartment at Ft. Lewis both because I was tired of the barracks (and they were shitty there) and because of my personally owned firearms.
If you are single, and on post you don't get to keep your guns with you. They will even take knives over 4" (in my experience). No ammo no nothing. It's really terrible if you like to go shooting a lot or have a bunch of stuff. You have to keep them with the base armory, and they are likely to finger **** and mess them.
I was shooting/hunting well before I joined the Army, and they ruin any 'fun' in shooting guns. Not that it's meant to be fun...just that joining the military because you like guns is not a smart move. They are tools in that sense, and become a PITA. You'll sit around all day in heavy body armor and gear just to shoot less than 100rds (if that), might get stuck loading other people's magazines, be a RO, and other crappy taskings.
CarlosDJackal
03-18-13, 11:32
Like others have said, you would be hard pressed to find an Armorer's position that has anything to do with Gunsmithing unless you get on board with a Marksmanship Unit or a Spec Ops Unit as one (highly unlikely).
But if you're looking for direction, join the military in a field that can open up things for you in terms of a career (Aircraft Maintenance, Aircrew, other maintenance jobs, IT, Medical, etc.). Use that time to explore what you really want to do.
Once you have completed your mandatory service, use the GI Bill (or whatever they have nowadays) to attend Gunsmithing School. Once you are a Veteran, you might even be eligible to attend with supplemental funding.
Just remember, when you join the military the last thing you will end up doing is what YOU wanted. When you join your duties will be commensurate with what THE MILITARY wants you to do. And smaller a target you aim for (IE: Gunsmiths) the less the chances that those two will be one and the same. Especially since most of the gunsmith positions have been converted to civilian positions.
Good luck!!
Littlelebowski
03-18-13, 11:35
I say join now as an action guy. Then....actually go to school afterwards.
Army Chief
03-18-13, 11:36
Like others have said, you would be hard pressed to find an Armorer's position that has anything to do with Gunsmithing unless you get on board with a Marksmanship Unit or a Spec Ops Unit as one (highly unlikely).
But if you're looking for direction, join the military in a field that can open up things for you in terms of a career (Aircraft Maintenance, Aircrew, other maintenance jobs, IT, Medical, etc.). Use that time to explore what you really want to do.
Once you have completed your mandatory service, use the GI Bill (or whatever they have nowadays) to attend Gunsmithing School. Once you are a Veteran, you might even be eligible to attend with supplemental funding.
Just remember, when you join the military the last thing you will end up doing is what YOU wanted. When you join your duties will be commensurate with what THE MILITARY wants you to do. And smaller a target you aim for (IE: Gunsmiths) the less the chances that those two will be one and the same. Especially since most of the gunsmith positions have been converted to civilian positions.
Good luck!!
Great post. The military may not be the final answer, but it could be a great stepping-off point toward getting you there.
AC
Magic_Salad0892
03-18-13, 11:37
Once you have completed your mandatory service, use the GI Bill
I don't think the military pays for your school now that sequestering is in effect.
Army Chief
03-18-13, 11:39
I don't think the military pays for your school now that sequestering is in effect.
Tuition Assistance (TA) is on hold right now, but the GI bill is a VA-administered program, and is NOT affected. No worries there.
AC
Littlelebowski
03-18-13, 11:45
The problem with choosing a job field as you enlist is that doing so usually pigeonholes you for life. You get as an IT guy and just try to segue into IT instead of moving on with your education.
Join as an action guy and then figure out what you really want to do after your first (last?) enlistment. You have PLENTY of time to find a career field. Get some life experience first.
Magic_Salad0892
03-18-13, 11:48
Tuition Assistance (TA) is on hold right now, but the GI bill is a VA-administered program, and is NOT affected. No worries there.
AC
Ah. That's good. I should've done some google before I typed that. Thanks for the correction.
Any idea as to when TA is off hold?
Army Chief
03-18-13, 11:53
Ah. That's good. I should've done some google before I typed that. Thanks for the correction.
Any idea as to when TA is off hold?
Given that it is a sequestration issue, I couldn't even begin to guess, but it is a valuable program that I used myself for graduate school, and suspect it will return in the long term.
AC
I'm with AC; I don't think that's a good enough reason either. Join the Army because you want to be a Soldier; all the rest is secondary - if not, you'll get disallusioned and become a problem for yourself AND the Army. You will get out of it what you want to make of it, and a goal of simply learning weapons-repair is short-sighted. Go talk to a Recuriter, but remember - it's his job to make the Army look as best it possibly can so you will join.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-18-13, 14:22
Armorers get an air conditioned/heated cage to live in 20 hours out of the day. They get to make normal folks clean their guns. They get to carry a pistol inside the armory. And that is the extent of what an armorer does.
Thanks for the responses, guys.
Especially that salient point about the love for weaponry not being a good reason to join.
LL, as far as any action job, I wouldn't even know WTF I'd want to do. However, I've been looking over the Yavapai Gunsmithing program. I think that might be the ticket for me.
Army Chief
03-18-13, 18:58
LL meant to join as an infantryman or to take some other combat arms job where you can get some experience under your belt before choosing a long-term vocation or developing a more specific skill set.
AC
Littlelebowski
03-18-13, 19:06
LL meant to join as an infantryman or to take some other combat arms job where you can get some experience under your belt before choosing a long-term vocation or developing a more specific skill set.
AC
Precisely, thanks AC!
Folks think they need to get their job skills for the rest of their lives in their first enlistment. You can go jump out of airplanes, shoot guns, and so and THEN GO TO COLLEGE.
Also....if you're looking for real change (no disrespect to my Army brothers), I think the Corps can effect that and quickly.
theblackknight
03-18-13, 19:28
Translation: Dont be a POG!
(I would know)
SeriousStudent
03-18-13, 20:07
The problem with choosing a job field as you enlist is that doing so usually pigeonholes you for life. You get as an IT guy and just try to segue into IT instead of moving on with your education.
Join as an action guy and then figure out what you really want to do after your first (last?) enlistment. You have PLENTY of time to find a career field. Get some life experience first.
All true. And it's funny how many former grunts here are now IT guys. Bad knees and lower back pain are no longer a problem. And grunts have the best stories, the hottest chicks, and the biggest scars.
And we all know chicks dig scars.
Precisely, thanks AC!
Folks think they need to get their job skills for the rest of their lives in their first enlistment. You can go jump out of airplanes, shoot guns, and so and THEN GO TO COLLEGE.
Also....if you're looking for real change (no disrespect to my Army brothers), I think the Corps can effect that and quickly.
How do I know if I am made of the right stuff for that? I understand that there are many who join not fully grasping the situation only to want out later even though they have to meet their contract at first. I am not nor do I want to be a little bitch about something if it doesn't turn out the way I thought it would.
The only combat arms type job that sounds interesting to me be is being an SDM, but I understand that these guys don't have their own MOS and that they're usually just 0311s...
I stopped trying to quote all of the solid posts in this thread because their are too many. I haven't spent a whole lot of time in the Army, but can relate to a lot of stuff being discussed here. I don't know about active units yet (I'm national/guard ROTC for a few months), but I can say that AC's post about weapons is spot on. Guns are, sadly, a very small part of the Army, even for an infantryman. Personally, when I went through infantry basic and AIT two years ago, I fired like 150 live rounds from an M4 before our individual weapons qualification, maybe 90 more after that and the rest were blanks. Disgusting IMO. I'm in one of the pride units of the VA ARNG (apparently...) and the unit armorer there does nothing along with everyone else. I asked him about it recently. He went to a two week (I think) school in the middle of nowhere to learn all about the Army's small arms and I guess he did but that was pretty much it AFAIK. He's listed as the unit armorer and there's an alternate, but I don't know how much he does. From what I've seen, its very little. As many others have suggested, AMU or SOF would be your best bet, but neither are a particularly easy path. As far as Aberdeen, I'm commissioning into the Ordnance Corps (unfortunately) and this was kind of my line of thinking when I found that out. For the Army, testing, acquisition, and all of that is a functional area as far as I can tell. That means you get into your branch/MOS for a couple of years first, and then around the time of getting CPT you move into the FA if you want. Can't speak for the enlisted side on that.
How do I know if I am made of the right stuff for that? I understand that there are many who join not fully grasping the situation only to want out later even though they have to meet their contract at first. I am not nor do I want to be a little bitch about something if it doesn't turn out the way I thought it would.
The only combat arms type job that sounds interesting to me be is being an SDM, but I understand that these guys don't have their own MOS and that they're usually just 0311s...
SDM is a squad-organic position, just like a SAW gunner or grenadier. They're regular joe's (11B or 0311) placed into that position within their SQD, based on qualifications and seniority I believe.
And about being able to do those jobs - if you want it you should be fine as a regular infantryman. When you start getting into 18 series and AMU, then it takes a certain kind of person that most are not.
If I had it to do over again, I'd try to get on the Army marksmanship team.
Not sure how to do that, and I can imagine it's pretty competitive, but I think you'd learn more there than anywhere.
Tuition Assistance (TA) is on hold right now
This is pissing me off because in the USAF at least, certain amounts of education is required to be promoted. E-7 requires an associate degree (CCAF, which is still free), but to be competitive, you need a bachelors which is not always free. To get O-4, you need a masters which is definitely not free and the $4500/yr in TA helps a LOT towards that masters. I'm coming up on O-3 in a couple of months and I'm considering not staying in too much later after because I don't think I can afford the schooling to check the box to make O-4 in ~4-5 yrs.
A lot of people join for the education benefits, and they're getting the short end of the stick.
Littlelebowski
03-19-13, 06:49
How do I know if I am made of the right stuff for that? I understand that there are many who join not fully grasping the situation only to want out later even though they have to meet their contract at first. I am not nor do I want to be a little bitch about something if it doesn't turn out the way I thought it would.
The only combat arms type job that sounds interesting to me be is being an SDM, but I understand that these guys don't have their own MOS and that they're usually just 0311s...
Are you athletic? Are you interested in tactics, in teamwork, in possibly leading your peers?
Listen, "just 0311s" or "just infantry" (I know you respect infantry, don't worry) is a hell of a lot more than more people will ever do in life. I got a note (http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2012/06/reminder-about-regular-infantry.html) from a.....guy that would be an SME on this forum (if he chose to share his credentials) about regular infantry regarding my brother. Most of the guys on this very forum going on and on about "Tier 1" couldn't make it through the Marine Corps School of Infantry if their lives depended on it. Sure, they might outshoot some 20 yr old infantryman but there's a lot more to the job than that and most couldn't hack it.
Most of the time (nearly ALL of the time), infantry is the foundation upon which SDMs, Special Forces, Delta, Marine Recon, MARSOC, and snipers are built. Don't go thinking you can get a high speed low drag job right out of the gate because honestly, you don't rate it yet. Go infantry, earn some stories and real world experiences; see if you want to stay in, or just go to college with money in your pocket and real world experience in something precious few else could do.
Apricotshot
03-19-13, 07:53
Are you athletic? Are you interested in tactics, in teamwork, in possibly leading your peers?
Listen, "just 0311s" or "just infantry" (I know you respect infantry, don't worry) is a hell of a lot more than more people will ever do in life. I got a note (http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2012/06/reminder-about-regular-infantry.html) from a.....guy that would be an SME on this forum (if he chose to share his credentials) about regular infantry regarding my brother. Most of the guys on this very forum going on and on about "Tier 1" couldn't make it through the Marine Corps School of Infantry if their lives depended on it. Sure, they might outshoot some 20 yr old infantryman but there's a lot more to the job than that and most couldn't hack it.
Most of the time (nearly ALL of the time), infantry is the foundation upon which SDMs, Special Forces, Delta, Marine Recon, MARSOC, and snipers are built. Don't go thinking you can get a high speed low drag job right out of the gate because honestly, you don't rate it yet. Go infantry, earn some stories and real world experiences; see if you want to stay in, or just go to college with money in your pocket and real world experience in something precious few else could do.
Good post. I was an 0351 Infantry Assualtman that never even ended up doing that job. Spent most my time in a FAST Company doing 0311 job, even went to DM school. Got to the Fleet and was lost in a Weapons Company. The big thing about going infantry is that you'll learn a lot about yourself both physically and mentally and the limits of both. Nothing breaks you down like a 10 klick hump in the rain and you didn't waterproof your gear because you are a dumb boot...
Army Chief
03-19-13, 10:43
Most of the time (nearly ALL of the time), infantry is the foundation upon which SDMs, Special Forces, Delta, Marine Recon, MARSOC, and snipers are built.
Absolutely on point, and oddly enough, as a former 11B Infantryman myself, the MOS continues to be heavily represented in those selected for Army Warrant Officer Flight Training.
Going Infantry is about a lot of things, but one of them is simply paying your dues to earn the kinds of opportunities that LL is talking about. You won't see a lot of supply techs being wooed by special operations forces or into accepting the really interesting jobs, but every formation is looking for the kid that has the steel and resolve to take the more difficult path and prove himself a winner.
AC
Great posts. The best training you will ever get, and will last you a lifetime both inside and outside the Army (LIFE), is the sweat equity you gain from a combat arms MOS. I look back on my service (19A) as what defined me as who I am and those lessons I learned (that you will never find in the civilian world) will stick with me always.
theblackknight
03-19-13, 11:46
If I had it to do over again, I'd try to get on the Army marksmanship team.
Not sure how to do that, and I can imagine it's pretty competitive, but I think you'd learn more there than anywhere.
For the action shooting teams, you basically have to be a child prodigy in USPSA/multigun. All those guys were GMs before they could even get a learners permit, and a lot of the time AMU approaches them and offers a contract. So if you are 10yo and have a father who will drive you to macthes and reload your ammo, you might make it.:D
sent from mah gun,using my sights
The only combat arms type job that sounds interesting to me be is being an SDM, but I understand that these guys don't have their own MOS and that they're usually just 0311s...
The great thing about the military is that most of the time, in my experience, an ambitious individual can make of it what he wants. If you want to be something, you can go to selection or ask to go to a school, and chances are you'll get the opportunity if you've proven your worth.
In my experience, you can go to Designated Marksman, Pathfinder School, the Reconnaissance and Surveillance Leaders Course, Sniper School, Airborne, Air Assault, and a range of other "cool" schoolhouses simply by asking to go.
If you want to be a sniper, go be a sniper.
The great thing about the military is that most of the time, in my experience, an ambitious individual can make of it what he wants. If you want to be something, you can go to selection or ask to go to a school, and chances are you'll get the opportunity if you've proven your worth.
In my experience, you can go to Designated Marksman, Pathfinder School, the Reconnaissance and Surveillance Leaders Course, Sniper School, Airborne, Air Assault, and a range of other "cool" schoolhouses simply by asking to go.
If you want to be a sniper, go be a sniper.
Really? It's that simple?
As an aside, what's the difference between a scout sniper and a traditional sniper?
Really? It's that simple?
As an aside, what's the difference between a scout sniper and a traditional sniper?
The opportunity is almost always there, if you have a little bit of tact, patience, and have established your reputation as a solid performer. Following through on that opportunity and being successful is obviously all on you.
"Scout Sniper" is USMC jargon. You'll have to get a Marine to answer if there's a difference between Snipers in STA Platoons and Snipers in other Infantry units. I'm not entirely sure how the USMC is organized in that way.
Littlelebowski
03-19-13, 13:49
"Scout Sniper" is USMC jargon. You'll have to get a Marine to answer if there's a difference between Snipers in STA Platoons and Snipers in other Infantry units. I'm not entirely sure how the USMC is organized in that way.
Unless something has drastically changed, all snipers are in Marine SOF units and STA Platoons. STA platoons are part of infantry battalions.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-19-13, 14:03
Really? It's that simple?
As an aside, what's the difference between a scout sniper and a traditional sniper?
IN the Corps its not THAT simple. It can be if you are a motivated and a top performer with some experience under your belt.
I started out in the infantry field, but due to a major loss of hearing and a desire to do something else, I got to lat move into the POG lifestyle. Deploying as a POG was the most fun Ive ever had, because I finally got to do nothing for most of the time! I was a bit of a shitbag as a junior Marine, but I changed when I became an NCO, but by that time I had about a year and a half left and was destined to be a civilian. Still, even as a POG I got to go to so many awesome training events and schools simply by asking (and my DD214 looks a lot better for it).
Just to clarify, by "that simple," I mean this:
In the Army, as long as you meet the pre-requisites for SFAS (Special Forces Assessment and Selection), you can pretty much go try out if you want to. There's almost nothing stopping you from trying. There's also almost nothing stopping you from trying to get into Ranger Battalion.
If you're in an infantry unit, slots for certain schools can sometimes be scarce, but if you're a top performer and you simply ask, there is usually a way to get in.
What I'm saying is that you make of it what you put in.
Littlelebowski
03-19-13, 14:09
IN the Corps its not THAT simple. It can be if you are a motivated and a top performer with some experience under your belt.
Indeed, it can be difficult but if you can PT really well and are a good Marine, chances are good.
One thing we're always taught, is that in most cases, the Army gives you the answers to the test. In that sense, it is that simple. You just have to be willing to put in the work beforehand, so as a0 said, it's all on you.
SeriousStudent
03-19-13, 19:55
Are you athletic? Are you interested in tactics, in teamwork, in possibly leading your peers?
Listen, "just 0311s" or "just infantry" (I know you respect infantry, don't worry) is a hell of a lot more than more people will ever do in life. I got a note (http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2012/06/reminder-about-regular-infantry.html) from a.....guy that would be an SME on this forum (if he chose to share his credentials) about regular infantry regarding my brother. Most of the guys on this very forum going on and on about "Tier 1" couldn't make it through the Marine Corps School of Infantry if their lives depended on it. Sure, they might outshoot some 20 yr old infantryman but there's a lot more to the job than that and most couldn't hack it.
Most of the time (nearly ALL of the time), infantry is the foundation upon which SDMs, Special Forces, Delta, Marine Recon, MARSOC, and snipers are built. Don't go thinking you can get a high speed low drag job right out of the gate because honestly, you don't rate it yet. Go infantry, earn some stories and real world experiences; see if you want to stay in, or just go to college with money in your pocket and real world experience in something precious few else could do.
Well said.
The skillset one needs to train and lead an infantry squad does, in fact, fill a book.
Larry Vickers
03-19-13, 23:13
Enlist into the Army and do your best to make it into a Ranger Battalion - learn how to be a man first then a lot of other things will fall into place for you
Many of your indecisive thoughts will vanish as you mature
There will always be time on your own to pursue a firearms passion
Stay single thru your 20's - don't even consider getting married until you are at least 30 years old
Have a good one
LAV
Magic_Salad0892
03-20-13, 00:42
I'm gonna show my brother this thread. (He doesn't have an account here.) As he's having trouble deciding on USMC or Army, as he wants to persue a SOF career.
There seems to be a lot of great stuff in this thread. And I appreciate the service of all involved.
Larry Vickers
03-20-13, 01:15
Without question the best opportunities in the SOF community are in the Army - there are many instances of Spec Ops personnel in other branches transferring to the Army to further their career
I am proud to say I influenced and trained some of these individuals - several of which are still serving today
Magic_Salad0892
03-20-13, 01:31
Without question the best opportunities in the SOF community are in the Army - there are many instances of Spec Ops personnel in other branches transferring to the Army to further their career
I am proud to say I influenced and trained some of these individuals - several of which are still serving today
That's good to know. I'll pass that on. I was actually having a conversation with him the other day and he mentioned not knowing for sure what college degree would help him further an SOF career. He thought something to do with language, psychology, or mechanics.
Would you have any advice regarding that?
Any other members who have experience should provide insight as well.
Most armorers suck, don't be that guy.
Littlelebowski
03-20-13, 07:53
Without question the best opportunities in the SOF community are in the Army - there are many instances of Spec Ops personnel in other branches transferring to the Army to further their career
I agree despite my loyalty to my beloved Corps.
However, I'd still recommend Marine Corps Infantry if you think you need sudden change in your life and are on the fence about SOF.
If you think you want to be an SOF guy, definitely enlist in the Army and demand a guaranteed Airborne Ranger contract. That simply guarantees you shots at both Jump School and Ranger (correct me if I'm wrong) but those are more than the Corps usually offers.
It wouldn't hurt to ping a Marine recruiter about the possibility of a Recon contract and I can help in that regard IF you're interested.
Do NOT trust the recruiters. If you get a bad vibe from one, find another. If they tell you that they can get you an Airborne/Ranger contract IF you enlist a friend or two (happened to me), find another recruiter. You will literally not get anything that is not in writing. You MUST get what you want in writing.
Larry Vickers
03-20-13, 08:23
LL is correct - I would advise going in the Marines if you want to be an infantryman vs enlisting in the Army to be Infantry
Airborne is a different story as the Marines do not have any Airborne Infantry - then it is the 82nd Airborne
And he is also correct - you get nothing that is not in writing ; period
Make sure whatever you do get it in writing on your contract
Recruiters need to make quotas and many will try a little sticky boy routine to enlist you; educate ourself and stick to your guns
Larry Vickers
03-20-13, 08:26
A college degree is not necessary - I certainly didn't have one before I enlisted - but if he is dead set on completing one before enlistment of the three you mention language is the most beneficial
I'm 20 and I don't know what to do with my life and all that. I've been stuck in a CC working towards transferring somewhere, but I really haven't doing much as far as that is concerned. It's like I don't have any specific direction or goal in mind.
All I know is that there isn't anything really that I care about the way I care about guns. I'd like to have some kind of profession in the gun industry in one way or another. I am not exactly sure of how to start towards that though.
Anyway,
I think about the military often, though I am not sure what kind of jobs I'd want to yet.
For now, I am wondering, how does one end up as a gunsmith or some specialized job involving small arms like at Quantico or Aberdeen or something like that? To say I am interested in small arms is an understatement, you know?
Thanks for any guidance guys.
I do what you want to do for a living. I build, sell and fix Handguns and AR's. I teach people how to do use them and get to attend some of the best training in the world for FREE. I also make a good salary doing it!
So let me tell you how I got here (short story version).
Much like you, I was wasting away at College with no clear objective. My Father advised me that I should join the Military and let them tell me what to do for a couple years. He pointed out that I would get paid, benefits, serve my Country and learn a trade/skill set and see the world. He was right on the money!
So I joined the USN as a Cryptologist. I received a lot of training, got a SUPER high security clearance, saw the world and then when I got out (after 5 years), I had SEVERAL job offerings for double my salary as an E-5. After just 2yrs out of the Navy, I was making close to $70k. This was in 2000! My salary continued to climb by $10k every 1.5yrs from there.
With all this extra income, I got into AR's. I became so interested in them, that I started to buy and trade parts. I was making several hundred dollars a month doing this and (thanks to my wonderful wife) started a home based business. The rest is history and G&R Tactical is now a Multi-Million dollar operation.
Point to all my rambling is that you do NOT have to be working in a gun related field in the Military to get into guns. View the Military as a stepping stone to bigger things that will enable you to do whatever you want.
C4
Last I heard, even if he gets a degree in language, if he makes it into SF it may not matter. He'll have to learn a language based on what group he's thrown into, regardless of what language he may already know.
Army Chief
03-20-13, 09:15
Last I heard, even if he gets a degree in language, if he makes it into SF it may not matter. He'll have to learn a language based on what group he's thrown into, regardless of what language he may already know.
True, though having mastery over a second language speaks to capacity, and it is often easier to pick up a third -- or even a fourth -- language once you've broken through that barrier, since you are using all of those same skills.
AC
FWIW,
I speak Spanish, have working knowledge of Italian, and I am primed up to learn Russian*
*As in I understand enough to hit the ground running with a good language course. I am READY to learn it.
I happen to be somewhat familiar with DLI-FLC Monterey, because a parent once taught there.
Ironically, I just ran into a Marine recruiter while sitting here at school.
Gave him my info, so I'm sure that talking to him can further shed light into the issue. It's a start.
I'm still not 100% sure about all of this, to be honest.
Ironically, I just ran into a Marine recruiter while sitting here at school.
Gave him my info, so I'm sure that talking to him can further shed light into the issue. It's a start.
I'm still not 100% sure about all of this, to be honest.
You're going to finish your degree first though, right?
Ironically, I just ran into a Marine recruiter while sitting here at school.
Gave him my info, so I'm sure that talking to him can further shed light into the issue. It's a start.
I'm still not 100% sure about all of this, to be honest.
Thinking that a recruiter has your best interests in mind is right up there in dumbassery as thinking a stripper loves you after you just dropped $100+ on her ass.
Get 3rd party input, the advice given on this thread has been golden so far.
You're going to finish your degree first though, right?
I am not even sure.
I started off this thread asking about gun related stuff. Memeber skullworks mentioned the Yavapai college gunsmithing thing. I started looking into it and doing something like that is completely do-able for me. It's not too far and it's withing budget education-wise.
I know the recruiter doesn't have my best interests at heart. I still do think that serving in some way in the military is something I should look into; might as well try to find out the most that I can. This is why this thread keeps going.
And thanks guys for your replies.
The Army is a much larger service branch than the Marines, i.e. a lot more slots to fill. larger school quotas and a more pourous promotion system. More opportunities for those who want and earn them.
Army Chief
03-20-13, 15:18
There is always the Guard/Reserve option if you want the training and some exposure to military life while still pursuing your civilian interests, such as gunsmithing school.
AC
theblackknight
03-20-13, 15:47
He could go 19th/20th group!:cool:
sent from mah gun,using my sights
Magic_Salad0892
03-20-13, 19:32
I agree despite my loyalty to my beloved Corps.
However, I'd still recommend Marine Corps Infantry if you think you need sudden change in your life and are on the fence about SOF.
If you think you want to be an SOF guy, definitely enlist in the Army and demand a guaranteed Airborne Ranger contract. That simply guarantees you shots at both Jump School and Ranger (correct me if I'm wrong) but those are more than the Corps usually offers.
It wouldn't hurt to ping a Marine recruiter about the possibility of a Recon contract and I can help in that regard IF you're interested.
Do NOT trust the recruiters. If you get a bad vibe from one, find another. If they tell you that they can get you an Airborne/Ranger contract IF you enlist a friend or two (happened to me), find another recruiter. You will literally not get anything that is not in writing. You MUST get what you want in writing.
That's really good to know, man. Would it be okay for me to send you my brother's e-mail so that you can talk to him about it directly?
Magic_Salad0892
03-20-13, 19:34
A college degree is not necessary - I certainly didn't have one before I enlisted - but if he is dead set on completing one before enlistment of the three you mention language is the most beneficial
I'll let him know. Thanks a ton. He wants to get a degree while he's still serving. Isn't that an SOF requirement?
There is always the Guard/Reserve option if you want the training and some exposure to military life while still pursuing your civilian interests, such as gunsmithing school.AC
An option, but I hate the National Guard. In its current state, or at least what I see of it, it is a tremendous waste and full of complete shitbags. I'm embarrassed to say I'm in it (for now) and I'm in what is apparently one of the best units in the state.
I'll let him know. Thanks a ton. He wants to get a degree while he's still serving. Isn't that an SOF requirement?
No, SOF don't need degrees.
Dude, dont join the military. Being a gumby armorer has little to do with wrenching on guns.
UNLESS.
You could go to gunsmithing school, and then apply to the Army Marksmanship Units precision weapons shop. They recruit from the bigger smithing schools and the Brownells job fair. And for some dam reason they DONT take prior service. You would learn some stuff and get a steady income to start buying tools.
Legit gunsmiths have a lot of remote, expensive tools.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
Could you elaborate the bolded part some more? Or where can I learn more information about this?
skullworks
03-27-13, 14:59
However, I've been looking over the Yavapai Gunsmithing program. I think that might be the ticket for me.
Though I enjoyed my time at YC, please note there are other schools out there. Trinidad State Junior College in Colorado would be my first pick. But with all the retardation sweeping through that state I would check with them first to see what (if any) changes are being made to the curriculum.
skullworks
03-27-13, 15:18
Oh, and regarding the completion of degrees; a very good friend of mine (who was a year ahead of me at YC) decided to join the Marines before he had completed his degree (I wanna say he had 3/4 or more of his last semester completed). The recruiter told him he was all lined up as an armorer, but once he was done with boot he found himself slotted as a heavy mechanic, working on caterpillars, front loaders and shit.
My buddy, being a good egg, managed to get into the embassy program, and then had his wish with every post after that (though none of them being armory/gunsmithing related).
This thread is a little bit dated by now, but it did actually seriously get me thinking about the military.
I have an appointment tomorrow with a USAF recruiter. I want to ask him about being an Aerial gunner, TACP, or dog handler.
The issue of me joining uncle Sam has been brewing since the evening I posted this thread originally. I am pretty sure I want to serve. Now I just need to figure out what job. Also, at this point in time I don't care if its about being an armorer or something like that. I am only young once and college/gunsmithing school will still be there in the next decade, but my youth won't. I came to admit to myself that I am interested in the military, so it's time to sack up and speak now or forever "hold my peace". I am still a little nervous.
Apricotshot
04-08-13, 07:19
My only advice is to pick a job that actually has skills in the civy world that will make you employable.
This thread is a little bit dated by now, but it did actually seriously get me thinking about the military.
I have an appointment tomorrow with a USAF recruiter. I want to ask him about being an Aerial gunner, TACP, or dog handler.
The issue of me joining uncle Sam has been brewing since the evening I posted this thread originally. I am pretty sure I want to serve. Now I just need to figure out what job. Also, at this point in time I don't care if its about being an armorer or something like that. I am only young once and college/gunsmithing school will still be there in the next decade, but my youth won't. I came to admit to myself that I am interested in the military, so it's time to sack up and speak now or forever "hold my peace". I am still a little nervous.
I'll always tell you to go do whatever it is that you were put on this planet to do. If you're looking for a stepping stone, it's hard to beat the Benning School for Boys for foundation. Never know, you might actually find your calling in the dirt, or find that it's time to move on after a bit and broaden your horizons. Good luck with your decision, and it's OK to be nervous. Just means you're taking this decision seriously.
Army Chief
04-08-13, 09:15
My only advice is to pick a job that actually has skills in the civy world that will make you employable.
Logical, though I don't necessarily agree with this.
Every speciality in the military exposes you to skills that can serve you well later on, whether they equate directly to a particular civilian job field or not. You will learn as much about leadership and management (and sometimes more importantly, good followership) in a machinegun pit as you will anywhere else, and since most servicemembers use their benefits to knock out some or all of their college while serving -- or shortly thereafter -- preparation for the job market is available to all.
Once upon a time, working in a particular job in uniform generally meant that you would be considered qualified for a similar job on the outside, but these days, there is often a bit more to it. I'm not completely discounting the job correlation idea because there ae often certifications or qualifications involved that can be useful later on. I'm simply saying that every military job brings with it a host of things that will aid in eventual transition, and if you ever do feel that you are in a dead end position while in the service, you can normally re-class when it is time to renew your contract.
My point? Don't rule anything out. I started off as a simple grunt, and am now a senior officer with a Master's degree, multiple licenses and certifications, and probably a half-dozen specific career fields for which I could easily qualify at a fairly advanced level. The opportunities are there, no matter where you choose to start off.
AC
Logical, though I don't necessarily agree with this.
Every speciality in the military exposes you to skills that can serve you well later on, whether they equate directly to a particular civilian job field or not. You will learn as much about leadership and management (and sometimes more importantly, good followership) in a machinegun pit as you will anywhere else, and since most servicemembers use their benefits to knock out some or all of their college while serving -- or shortly thereafter -- preparation for the job market is available to all.
Once upon a time, working in a particular job in uniform generally meant that you would be considered qualified for a similar job on the outside, but these days, there is often a bit more to it. I'm not completely discounting the job correlation idea because there ae often certifications or qualifications involved that can be useful later on. I'm simply saying that every military job brings with it a host of things that will aid in eventual transition, and if you ever do feel that you are in a dead end position while in the service, you can normally re-class when it is time to renew your contract.
My point? Don't rule anything out. I started off as a simple grunt, and am now a senior officer with a Master's degree, multiple licenses and certifications, and probably a half-dozen specific career fields for which I could easily qualify at a fairly advanced level. The opportunities are there, no matter where you choose to start off.
AC
I swear, I'm not stalking AC, but once again, I wholly concur, and his words mirror my experience as well.
ETA: things like security clearance can pay certain dividends in the civilian sector, however.
Littlelebowski
04-08-13, 09:35
This thread is a little bit dated by now, but it did actually seriously get me thinking about the military.
I have an appointment tomorrow with a USAF recruiter. I want to ask him about being an Aerial gunner, TACP, or dog handler.
The issue of me joining uncle Sam has been brewing since the evening I posted this thread originally. I am pretty sure I want to serve. Now I just need to figure out what job. Also, at this point in time I don't care if its about being an armorer or something like that. I am only young once and college/gunsmithing school will still be there in the next decade, but my youth won't. I came to admit to myself that I am interested in the military, so it's time to sack up and speak now or forever "hold my peace". I am still a little nervous.
I'd choose TACP or MWD (Military Working Dog Handler). Don't worry about the career training; just go be a man and serve honorably. The rest will come.
I'd be envious if you get MWD :D
This thread is a little bit dated by now, but it did actually seriously get me thinking about the military.
I have an appointment tomorrow with a USAF recruiter. I want to ask him about being an Aerial gunner, TACP, or dog handler.
The issue of me joining uncle Sam has been brewing since the evening I posted this thread originally. I am pretty sure I want to serve. Now I just need to figure out what job. Also, at this point in time I don't care if its about being an armorer or something like that. I am only young once and college/gunsmithing school will still be there in the next decade, but my youth won't. I came to admit to myself that I am interested in the military, so it's time to sack up and speak now or forever "hold my peace". I am still a little nervous.
Why the Air Force?
I'd choose TACP or MWD (Military Working Dog Handler). Don't worry about the career training; just go be a man and serve honorably. The rest will come.
I'd be envious if you get MWD :D
That's the only Security Forces thing that sounds interesting to aside from the counter-snipers.
TACP sounds interesting too, as does being an aerial gunner on an HH-60. I know for sure I don't want to do a "civilian" type job because that would defeat the point of joining in the first place for me. I think you're right about the action jobs when one is young, LL.
Why the Air Force?
I was advised by someone I trust that it would be a good fit for me.
Army Chief
04-08-13, 11:08
I think you're right about the action jobs when one is young, LL.
"Action jobs" and "Air Force" are not necessarily mutually-exclusive, but it is just a bit like pressing a giant poodle into service as a guard dog. It works well enough, but it is always going to look funny. lol
AC
Army Chief
04-08-13, 11:19
An option, but I hate the National Guard. In its current state, or at least what I see of it, it is a tremendous waste and full of complete shitbags. I'm embarrassed to say I'm in it (for now) and I'm in what is apparently one of the best units in the state.
Understand what you're saying, but it can be a worthwhile stepping stone. I joined the Guard in high school, and my son is a LT in the Guard now. It can serve a purpose; just don't go Guard or Reserve thinking you are getting virtually the same experience as going active, as they are very different worlds. No doubt.
AC
Understand what you're saying, but it can be a worthwhile stepping stone. I joined the Guard in high school, and my son is a LT in the Guard now. It can serve a purpose; just don't go Guard or Reserve thinking you are getting virtually the same experience as going active, as they are very different worlds. No doubt.
AC
That is true. I think the national guard needs to be looked at separate from AD. A soldier can't be proficient if he only trains one weekend a month, and in my experience, that one weekend is spent sitting around much more than anything else. I'm sure AD has its fair share of wasted time but as you said, they are two very different worlds.
"Action jobs" and "Air Force" are not necessarily mutually-exclusive, but it is just a bit like pressing a giant poodle into service as a guard dog. It works well enough, but it is always going to look funny. lol
AC
AC, it could very well work!
My meeting today is at 1630. Other than jobs, ASVAB, when I get to sign up, housing/basing, bonuses, I am not sure what else I should ask him.
AC, it could very well work!
My meeting today is at 1630. Other than jobs, ASVAB, when I get to sign up, housing/basing, bonuses, I am not sure what else I should ask him.
I wouldn't count on any bonus... I didn't get a thing when I signed up.
That is true. I think the national guard needs to be looked at separate from AD. A soldier can't be proficient if he only trains one weekend a month, and in my experience, that one weekend is spent sitting around much more than anything else. I'm sure AD has its fair share of wasted time but as you said, they are two very different worlds.
The 34th ID might differ with you. We were the first Guard Brigade to "own" battlespace in AFG. We did alright, even though from my uneducated opinion we were f'd up from the top down, we were successful in our mission. I can't say the same for the Guard unit that replaced us.
I understand the guard is looked down upon, but after mobilization training, we do the same damned job overseas. So unless you have quantifiable evidence of guard being substandard in their duties overseas, politely shut up.
______
I personally think the Guard wouldn't be a bad starting point. Get educated while serving, then when your schoolin' is done you can figure out if you want to go active, stay guard or get out.
Failure2Stop
04-08-13, 13:36
That's the only Security Forces thing that sounds interesting to aside from the counter-snipers.
TACP sounds interesting too, as does being an aerial gunner on an HH-60. I know for sure I don't want to do a "civilian" type job because that would defeat the point of joining in the first place for me. I think you're right about the action jobs when one is young, LL.
Just don't become enamored with a billet that the chosen MOS may or may not lead to. I cannot speak with much degree of authority about AF MOSs, but from the USMC side, lots of dudes think that they are going to become Scout Snipers without understanding the MOS path.
Littlelebowski
04-08-13, 13:40
Just don't become enamored with a billet that the chosen MOS may or may not lead to. I cannot speak with much degree of authority about AF MOSs, but from the USMC side, lots of dudes think that they are going to become Scout Snipers without understanding the MOS path.
I couldn't explain that path if I tried :D
The 34th ID might differ with you. We were the first Guard Brigade to "own" battlespace in AFG. We did alright, even though from my uneducated opinion we were f'd up from the top down, we were successful in our mission. I can't say the same for the Guard unit that replaced us.
I understand the guard is looked down upon, but after mobilization training, we do the same damned job overseas. So unless you have quantifiable evidence of guard being substandard in their duties overseas, politely shut up.
______
I personally think the Guard wouldn't be a bad starting point. Get educated while serving, then when your schoolin' is done you can figure out if you want to go active, stay guard or get out.
I never said anything about the job done overseas. And its my opinion so I don't have to provide quantifiable evidence.
I wouldn't count on any bonus... I didn't get a thing when I signed up.
Damn. I was licking my chops at the prospect of taking a little bit of that money and buying something nice for myself like a first handgun or an ACOG at the very least.
Just don't become enamored with a billet that the chosen MOS may or may not lead to. I cannot speak with much degree of authority about AF MOSs, but from the USMC side, lots of dudes think that they are going to become Scout Snipers without understanding the MOS path.
Gotcha. This is why I want to learn about other jobs. I am actually fairly good with languages and lived near DLI-FLC in Monterey for some time--but I have a feeling any linguist MOS job is going to be a desk job.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-08-13, 14:09
Gotcha. This is why I want to learn about other jobs. I am actually fairly good with languages and lived near DLI-FLC in Monterey for some time--but I have a feeling any linguist MOS job is going to be a desk job.
Our linguists got to do more in the field as far as training than our grunts did....
I never said anything about the job done overseas. And its my opinion so I don't have to provide quantifiable evidence.
What's your experience of guard vs AD guys? aren't you a cadet? Why does your opinion matter?
From my experience, there are just as many dickbags in AD units as there are dickbags in guard units. While the same is true for every other category of dude in the Army.
I've been in just shy of 7 years, done a tour (that I had to fight to get on), been to several natural disaster recovery missions, worked alongside guard guys and AD guys alike.
I like the Guard, I couldn't do AD, it's just not for me I hate ******** games and I get enough of 'em on my 55-60 days a year of guard.
Failure2Stop
04-08-13, 14:49
Gotcha. This is why I want to learn about other jobs. I am actually fairly good with languages and lived near DLI-FLC in Monterey for some time--but I have a feeling any linguist MOS job is going to be a desk job.
Depends on the MOS path that lands you at DLI.
Most entry-level jobs that put you there are going to be intel related, and not the "cool" kind of intel that people think about, but the "listen to conversation and transcribe" type.
Some cool jobs will land you there, but usually after all the vetting and primary schools that those require.
Army Chief
04-08-13, 14:56
What's your experience of guard vs AD guys?.
Not directed to me, but I have some insight. In a deployed environment, the only differences I could see is that you find a lot of older-than-usual guys wearing E-4 rank at the AAFES trailer, and Guard units tend to have more visible state pride and cohesiveness than the norm, as some serving in those units have been together for many, many years.
I also noticed something else: in the early/mid-80s, we still had a number of Viet Nam veterans in the Guard -- both in the Infantry unit I was in, and later in the Air Cav Squadron I joined in college. These guys wanted nothing to do with the active duty side of things any longer, but had skills and experience that couldn't be bought at any price in the general population, and they still wanted to contribute something. My first rifle squad leader taught me things that weren't in any book, and when I moved to aviation, I found that Guard aviation units were often staggeringly effective, as most of the pilots were far more experienced then the active duty norm, and they had been training together for decades in many cases. Half of them were airline pilots who just enjoyed hopping into a gunship now and then, and these guys were wired tight, despite their lowly reserve status.
The moral of the story is that it is tough to generalize about the quality of folks found in the reserve components, as this will often ebb and flow with the times. I suspect as many depart active service over the next few years, the Guard will again see an influx of combat vets -- and indeed, with the number of Guard units that have deployed, a great many already are.
It's still an apples-and-oranges comparison to some degree, but rest assured that there are scores of Guard units that are plenty capable. Reserve units tend to be more oriented toward the support roles, so that might be more of a mixed bag, but I've learned not to judge any book by its cover. Even in the weakest of units, the individual decision is always the same: am I going to be part of the problem, or am I willing to be part of the solution?
AC
One word for you:
Infantry
What's your experience of guard vs AD guys? aren't you a cadet? Why does your opinion matter?
From my experience, there are just as many dickbags in AD units as there are dickbags in guard units. While the same is true for every other category of dude in the Army.
I've been in just shy of 7 years, done a tour (that I had to fight to get on), been to several natural disaster recovery missions, worked alongside guard guys and AD guys alike.
I like the Guard, I couldn't do AD, it's just not for me I hate ******** games and I get enough of 'em on my 55-60 days a year of guard.
I didn't say my opinion did matter, but I was offering it since that's what was brought up. My AD experience is limited (which I think I mentioned but maybe not) to OSUT and the cadre I've had the privilege of being taught by. Its sad, but I have realized above all else that there are shit bags in every component, branch, unit, etc just like you said. Coming from a military family, I had much higher expectations of the people I'd be with. The Guard has only continuously disappointed those expectations. I know an E-7 has a lot of responsibility, but last month we were doing some basic battle drill practice and I knew more about several of them than he or anyone else did. Either that or none of them just cared to answer.
Not directed to me, but I have some insight. In a deployed environment, the only differences I could see is that you find a lot of older-than-usual guys wearing E-4 rank at the AAFES trailer, and Guard units tend to have more visible state pride and cohesiveness than the norm, as some serving in those units have been together for many, many years.
I also noticed something else: in the early/mid-80s, we still had a number of Viet Nam veterans in the Guard -- both in the Infantry unit I was in, and later in the Air Cav Squadron I joined in college. These guys wanted nothing to do with the active duty side of things any longer, but had skills and experience that couldn't be bought at any price in the general population, and they still wanted to contribute something. My first rifle squad leader taught me things that weren't in any book, and when I moved to aviation, I found that Guard aviation units were often staggeringly effective, as most of the pilots were far more experienced then the active duty norm, and they had been training together for decades in many cases. Half of them were airline pilots who just enjoyed hopping into a gunship now and then, and these guys were wired tight, despite their lowly reserve status.
The moral of the story is that it is tough to generalize about the quality of folks found in the reserve components, as this will often ebb and flow with the times. I suspect as many depart active service over the next few years, the Guard will again see an influx of combat vets -- and indeed, with the number of Guard units that have deployed, a great many already are.
It's still an apples-and-oranges comparison to some degree, but rest assured that there are scores of Guard units that are plenty capable. Reserve units tend to be more oriented toward the support roles, so that might be more of a mixed bag, but I've learned not to judge any book by its cover. Even in the weakest of units, the individual decision is always the same: am I going to be part of the problem, or am I willing to be part of the solution?
AC
AC, thanks man, you are truly a wordsmith.
rojo - if you are unsure if the military is for you, but want to give it a shot go guard. You'll have 6 years to figure it out, while you get paid to go to the school you choose. You may be able to go active before the guard contract is up if you decide you want to.
Wake - I'm not trying to be hard on you, but you are offering advice and opinions on subjects you truly do not know a whole lot about.
AC, thanks man, you are truly a wordsmith.
rojo - if you are unsure if the military is for you, but want to give it a shot go guard. You'll have 6 years to figure it out, while you get paid to go to the school you choose. You may be able to go active before the guard contract is up if you decide you want to.
Wake - I'm not trying to be hard on you, but you are offering advice and opinions on subjects you truly do not know a whole lot about.
I know my experience, limited as it may be. Usually I try to include that disclaimer that I do have very little but I understand the reasoning for you engaging it.
Shokr21, I have made up my mind, so I am not too worried. Let's just say I cut the bullshit and got real honest about myself. I think I can do well in this stuff. I guess that in the past I was apprehensive about possibly getting killed or some shit. But then who wouldn't be concerned about that? For all I know, I can die in a car wreck tomorrow just the same.
My appointment with the recruiter went well today. I just have to drop an additional 25lbs to get the ball rolling officially. But that's not a problem as I have been doing PT regularly. With this "extra" time I can prepare for the ASVAB and learn more about the military.
In all, I am in good spirits.
Do NOT join AF Security Forces. Ignore every hooah recruiting piece you see about it, it's all BS. The very few and very limited not gay specialties they can get into only come after years of 14 hour shifts checking IDs at the flight line. If you join the AF Open General, you will get Security Forces.
If you want information about TACP or some second hand info about CCT PM me.
"Action jobs" and "Air Force" are not necessarily mutually-exclusive, but it is just a bit like pressing a giant poodle into service as a guard dog. It works well enough, but it is always going to look funny. lol
AC
Shiiiit, I look bad-ass.
Failure2Stop
04-09-13, 08:59
I guess that in the past I was apprehensive about possibly getting killed or some shit. But then who wouldn't be concerned about that?
In the words of a drunken hippy:
"No one here gets out alive."
Live your life as you want to be remembered.
Do NOT join AF Security Forces. Ignore every hooah recruiting piece you see about it, it's all BS. The very few and very limited not gay specialties they can get into only come after years of 14 hour shifts checking IDs at the flight line. If you join the AF Open General, you will get Security Forces.
If you want information about TACP or some second hand info about CCT PM me.
Yeah, don't do SF in the AF. Although your eprs look good. Defended $5 billion of assets, etc.
That's the only Security Forces thing that sounds interesting to aside from the counter-snipers.
Don't buy that BS. Trust me. I wasn't in the AF, granted, but I know that those jobs are not what you think they are. And the people who make up the AFSF are generally, from what I've seen, not the kind of people one wants to be around for years.
TACP, CCT, MWD Handler, PJ -- these are all jobs worth shooting for in the Air Force. If you're a laid back dude and don't want a lot of childish yelling and pseudo-disciplinary schemes you're going to find in the Infantry (like haircuts, etc., which have nothing to do with job performance), then the Air Force and these jobs might be right for you.
But you'll have to be self-disciplined enough to perform without the rigidity of Army/USMC infantry life. As an advantage, you'll get better living conditions, and a more relaxed working environment without a lot of the BS.
With this "extra" time I can prepare for the ASVAB and learn more about the military.
It definitely pays to do well but don't necessarily go nuts with studying. I can tell by your writing and grammar that you're going to max the ASVAB. Frankly, it's hard not to max the ASVAB. If you have to juggle PT and studying due to time constraints, definitely go heavy on the PT. It's far more important.
Littlelebowski
04-09-13, 10:04
As usual, a0cake is spot on. Run, do pushups, crunches, and pullups. They'll teach you what knowledge you need to know.
rojocorsa,
If you do decide to go the TACP/JTAC route, here's what you have to look forward to. Here's our old JTAC talking to some F-15's and shutting down some enemy fighting positions. Sounds fun, doesn't it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGEC8ov1QPE
As an advantage, you'll get better living conditions, and a more relaxed working environment without a lot of the BS.
I'm just sayin, it's 85 degrees in my office right now, the heater is on, AND WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TURN IT OFF ON PAIN OF ARTICLE 15. And none of our windows actually open either.
#USAFproblems
Btw, if you don't score well on the ASVAB, you'll probably be forced into SF. SF is generally comprised of the lowest ASVAB scores, plus some people who volunteer.
I'm just sayin, it's 85 degrees in my office right now, the heater is on, AND WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TURN IT OFF ON PAIN OF ARTICLE 15.
#USAFproblems
Btw, if you don't score well on the ASVAB, you'll probably be forced into SF.
I don't understand how that's possible? :fie:
PS. I hope you're not SF, after I just got done talking poorly about it. I'm sure there are some good dude there who just didn't know better.
I don't understand how that's possible? :fie:
PS. I hope you're not SF, after I just got done talking poorly about it. I'm sure there are some good dude there who just didn't know better.
Nope, not SF. Know a lot of SF guys, they're right next door actually.
I've noticed a lot of them going with "SecFo" lately, doesn't stop the 820th from "securing" KAF with shaving waivers and "SF" IR patches though... :suicide:
There are a few Security Forces guys on here, I believe most of them are CATM guys, who run everyone through qualifications and do the heavy armorer lifting on base. And I know that might sound like what you originally wanted but remember you have to be a cop first, maybe one of them will jump in with some info.
Three other jobs that aren't given much credit in the usaf are combat comm, combat weather (SOWT), and combat engineers (red horse). You can look up what they do.
I have a couple friends that are/were AF Security Forces. None of them have done much that was really cool. My friend is currently SF somewhere in the midwest, I think Kansas, and is SF on a base that has AWACs birds. Every so often he has guard duty on the jets and literally spends a 24 hour shift in a hangar watching the plane. He does get to travel with the bird when they go overseas though so he does travel a lot to cool places.
I also have a friend who is a JTAC. He did it several years active duty and now does it in the Air Guard or Reserves. He recently got back from a tour in Afghanistan where he was attached to an Army unit. He has a lot of cool stories.
If you want to be a helicopter door gunner I would join the Army. The Army has a lot more helicopters than the AF and uses them a lot more.
I have a couple friends that are/were AF Security Forces. None of them have done much that was really cool. My friend is currently SF somewhere in the midwest, I think Kansas, and is SF on a base that has AWACs birds. Every so often he has guard duty on the jets and literally spends a 24 hour shift in a hangar watching the plane. He does get to travel with the bird when they go overseas though so he does travel a lot to cool places.
Tinker AFB (in Oklahoma City) is where AWACS are. I like their BX, they have ammo in stock from time to time.
As more time passes by, I am becoming more interested in TACP. I know it will be a hell of a challenge, but I need to endure a trial by fire at some point.
I currently can't do any pull ups but I am working on it. It's on!
I don't know if they can still swing it but when I went in your recruiter could start you off as an E-3. If I remember correctly you bring them other suckers to enlist and you get hooked up for it. ;) Never hurts to ask and make sure it's written into your contract. More money never hurts.
I don't know if they can still swing it but when I went in your recruiter could start you off as an E-3. If I remember correctly you bring them other suckers to enlist and you get hooked up for it. ;) Never hurts to ask and make sure it's written into your contract. More money never hurts.
They said that if I have enough college credits, that they can do that. I don't know how many I have off the top of my head, but I will figure it out when I get there.
They said that if I have enough college credits, that they can do that. I don't know how many I have off the top of my head, but I will figure it out when I get there.
Yeah that's an easy thing to get sorted out if you have the credits, I went in as an E-3.
Yeah that's an easy thing to get sorted out if you have the credits, I went in as an E-3.
I think I do have them, as I have been ****ing around in school for 3 years (with no real direction).
I think I do have them, as I have been ****ing around in school for 3 years (with no real direction).
Yeah you should have enough then.
They said that if I have enough college credits, that they can do that. I don't know how many I have off the top of my head, but I will figure it out when I get there.
I think I do have them, as I have been ****ing around in school for 3 years (with no real direction).
As more time passes by, I am becoming more interested in TACP. I know it will be a hell of a challenge, but I need to endure a trial by fire at some point.
I currently can't do any pull ups but I am working on it. It's on!
Sorry if I'm being too intrusive, but I see a shit sandwich getting made. It may be time to take a "tactical pause" and reorient yourself really quick.
If you can't do a pullup right now and you need to lose 25 pounds, and you enter training any time within the next year, you are almost certainly not going to make it. DO NOT let the recruiter rush you into failure. It's just a hard reality that needs to be reckoned with. You will not be competitive at TACP selection any time soon. There are going to be PT rock-stars there.
You have 3 years of college already. Do not enlist without finishing your degree. Take the last year of your studies and work out like a machine in the intervening time. You will need every day of that year to get into competitive shape. Get your degree, and take it from there. Maybe even go in as an Officer instead of Enlisting. That's something to keep in mind.
The point is: do not rush to failure. If you enlist relatively soon, as you seem to be planning since you're talking about having enough credits (which implies that you don't plan to finish school), you may very well end up working a shitty, no-fun, pointless job in the Air Force getting paid chicken scratch and the whole while being without a college degree for no good reason at all.
I'm not trying to discourage you. Far from it. But if you want to succeed, you need a plan. Again, sorry if this comes off as too negative or if I've misread the situation, but I think this had to be said.
Sorry if I'm being too intrusive, but I see a shit sandwich getting made. It may be time to take a "tactical pause" and reorient yourself really quick.
If you can't do a pullup right now and you need to lose 25 pounds, and you enter training any time within the next year, you are almost certainly not going to make it. DO NOT let the recruiter rush you into failure. It's just a hard reality that needs to be reckoned with. You will not be competitive at TACP selection any time soon. There are going to be PT rock-stars there.
You have 3 years of college already. Do not enlist without finishing your degree. Take the last year of your studies and work out like a machine in the intervening time. You will need every day of that year to get into competitive shape. Get your degree, and take it from there. Maybe even go in as an Officer instead of Enlisting. That's something to keep in mind.
The point is: do not rush to failure. If you enlist relatively soon, as you seem to be planning since you're talking about having enough credits (which implies that you don't plan to finish school), you may very well end up working a shitty, no-fun, pointless job in the Air Force getting paid chicken scratch and the whole while being without a college degree for no good reason at all.
I'm not trying to discourage you. Far from it. But if you want to succeed, you need a plan. Again, sorry if this comes off as too negative or if I've misread the situation, but I think this had to be said.
FWIW, that sounds like very solid advice. I personally hate school and it shows, but am muscling through it because I know that a degree is so important in today's world, civvie or mil. Being a private sucks ass. Finish out your degree and you can get in as an E-4.
I would agree that you should finish your degree before you commit to an enlistment. You could even look for a commission as you complete school. AF security forces sucks plain and simple. I was lucky because I got into a guard unit with an awesome CATM shop that opened up all kinds of training opportunities not afforded to the masses. If you go in with eyes open and want to use it as a spring board...ok. But don't expect much spring.
The thing about CATM or MWD is you have to be in security first, and normally (especially true of active duty) you have to pay your dues. Simply joining the AF will not ensure you even get to shoot an M4 on a regular basis. And some of the trainers spout the most atrocious BS as fact, even touting the AK over M16. Most active duty units are so wrapped around their dogma and regs it keeps them from progressing to newer and better procedures and weapons handling, i.e. SPORTS.
Also know that I met more than a few troops who washed out of another school and into my security forces class who came from TACP, CCT, and EOD.
Sorry if I'm being too intrusive, but I see a shit sandwich getting made. It may be time to take a "tactical pause" and reorient yourself really quick.
If you can't do a pullup right now and you need to lose 25 pounds, and you enter training any time within the next year, you are almost certainly not going to make it. DO NOT let the recruiter rush you into failure. It's just a hard reality that needs to be reckoned with. You will not be competitive at TACP selection any time soon. There are going to be PT rock-stars there.
You have 3 years of college already. Do not enlist without finishing your degree. Take the last year of your studies and work out like a machine in the intervening time. You will need every day of that year to get into competitive shape. Get your degree, and take it from there. Maybe even go in as an Officer instead of Enlisting. That's something to keep in mind.
The point is: do not rush to failure. If you enlist relatively soon, as you seem to be planning since you're talking about having enough credits (which implies that you don't plan to finish school), you may very well end up working a shitty, no-fun, pointless job in the Air Force getting paid chicken scratch and the whole while being without a college degree for no good reason at all.
I'm not trying to discourage you. Far from it. But if you want to succeed, you need a plan. Again, sorry if this comes off as too negative or if I've misread the situation, but I think this had to be said.
To be more specific, I am basically done with the general ed part of my college career. To finish school properly, I would need 2-3 years more for the more in-depth thing of whatever I wanted to do. I hope that clears things up. It's not like I am 80% there or something. The reason I am three year into this is because I had been ****ing around.
I know that I can't be TACP right away due to reality, but say I put in my sweat and tears--wouldn't there be a later chance to prove myself? When I really want something, I am the kind of person that will get it the **** done.
I PT often and hard every week at my gym's Crossfit-esque classes. I am even starting on getting stronger enough to do pull ups. Right now, I need a person to hold my legs a little bit to pull myself up. But I will get there goddamn it. I don't want to be an indignant POS fatbody for the rest of my life. Generally I don't bitch about things (except for "abstract" shit like high prices of CA, taxes, the gov't, women), but I don't bitch because something is uncomfortable, etc.
I just want a chance to try something at some point in time.
If that is something you are leaning for, then by all means go for it. You will have to pass a PAST test with a recruiter before you can even leave for basic if you sign up for one of the Battlefield Airmen jobs. TACP used to be like a 275 on the Army PT test plus pull ups, but I think now it's pretty much just an Air Force PT test.
When it comes to dealing with your recruiter however, if you want one of these jobs, GET A GUARANTEED CONTRACT. You used to have to go in open and "try-out" during basic training, but that has not been the case for many years now. DO NOT DO THIS. If you want TACP/CCT/PJ/SERE/SOWT do not sign a contract that does not say you are getting that job, even if he tries to tell you it will mean you can leave for basic earlier. It is entirely possible that you will never get the opportunity to try out and probably end up a cop or maintainer.
One other thing to consider is if you do finish your degree, becoming an ALO is absolutely nothing like being TACP, despite the current recruiting push. ALOs are staff officers, not just commissioned JTACs. You will not be running and gunning. CRO/STO are still pretty high speed but again, once you make Captain your glory days are about done.
There are a lot of really cool jobs in the military, the advice I give people who are interested is to completely disregard branches until they figure out what they want to do, then compare what each branch offers in that lane. Battlefield Airmen jobs are a great example of the awesome opportunities almost nobody knows about. The Navy has them too, as do the other branches. Warrant Officer in the Army is a great gig, I would love to fly around in an OH-58 smoking fools in the face. I have a friend who is an Air Force Intel officer and was in Africa for the whole Koni thing recently. The DIA is a sweet deal. Since you need to get in shape anyway, I would say keep doing classes and research all the opportunities out there. Figure out what you want to do, then see who offers the best version of that.
So these past two weeks I have kicked it into full gear regarding getting in shape. This past week I started to go on a diet roughly based around paleo. Basically I am trying to cut out all the sugar and carbs I can out of my life.
I have already lost three pounds, since the time I first spoke to the recruiter. However, I still feel somewhat uncertain---but only because I don't have a strict linear plan. All I am doing is trying to eat less and workout.
Do you guys have any suggestions on a more focused way of getting there, or should I just keep doing what I am trying to do willy nilly until I get there?
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