View Full Version : is it worth it to install your own rail?
cthompson36
03-18-13, 19:36
Hey guys, I've decided on my next upper as a BCM without handguards. I was then going to get a DD rail or similair. But my question is is it cost effective to put it on myself and buy the tools to do so, or have a gunsmith do it. I don't know what all special tools are needed for handguards, its all foreign to me, and i don't know what a good price is on a gunsmith installation. So what do you guys recommend? This will be my last upper, and i doubt I will ever take it off. Thanks!
I've always said any thing related to cars or guns can be done by yourself with 5 things:
1. The right parts
2. The right tools
3. The right instruction
4. Patience.
5. Knowing your own limitations.
I usually do my own stuff on ARs but will be soon sending off my main gun for some work because I dont have the above #2 or #3 in doing the work I want done.
There are many factors to your question. I'd imagine it's a BCM with delta ring and either a set screw gas block or FSP. 16" barrel or pinned. Inevitably I'll probably recommend (if you want a railed and not slick HG) one of Centurion's.
What upper did you buy and what HG do you want?
-Jax
johnpuga1982
03-18-13, 19:50
Torque wrench might be costly. Have any mechanic friends?
cthompson36
03-18-13, 19:53
I've got a torque wrench and lots of general use tools, but i have no proprietary tools. I'll find the exact stuff I'm thinking about and post links in a minute
I havent decided middy or carbine so il get the forend to match, but its between these four based onw hats available and how much i decide to spend
upper: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm
handguard: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/MI-18-SS-Series-Drop-In-Mid-Length-Two-Piece-Ha-p/mi-18ss.htm
or http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/stock-forend-parts/forends-handguards/ar-15-carbine-forend-tubes-prod20737.aspx?avs|Make_3=AR-15/M4
or http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/stock-forend-parts/forends-handguards/ar-15-m16-lightweight-free-float-handguards-prod25006.aspx?avs|Make_3=AR-15/M4
or http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/stock-forend-parts/forends-handguards/ar15-m16-ez-car-handguards-prod40103.aspx?avs|Make_3=AR-15/M4
Torque wrench might be costly. Have any mechanic friends?
Depending on his intended HG setup he may not need to take the barrel nut off.
-Jax
I had never done it before and it wasn't bad with the help of youtube and a friend.
I did the C4 cutout rail though so it would be easier than a rail where you had to change the barrel nut and shave the FSB or change the gas block
cthompson36
03-18-13, 20:02
Would I need to take the barrel nut off for a YHM? The reason i have the YHM in the list is I have one and really like it and I like the idea of having two of the same just for simplicity's sake.
I posted links to the stuff I am looking at above
Would I need to take the barrel nut off for a YHM? The reason i have the YHM in the list is I have one and really like it and I like the idea of having two of the same just for simplicity's sake.
I posted links to the stuff I am looking at above
Which YHM. Dont have experience with 'em but I'll see if I can help.
Do you have a low pro gas block or front sight base?
-Jax
cthompson36
03-18-13, 20:10
I have the diamond mid length with a low pro gas block on a carbine length upper right now
Gotcha. Exactly which YHM HG are you looking at?
-Jax
johnpuga1982
03-18-13, 20:13
Depending on his intended HG setup he may not need to take the barrel nut off.
-Jax
You're right. I forgot about that.
-------------------------------------------------
Do a quick YouTube search and see if there are videos on the HG you want. Sometimes the videos can walk you right through the process.
cthompson36
03-18-13, 20:20
either the diamond or the lightweight. would they go on the same way since they are the same brand?
Looks like both of those require a proprietary barrel nut.
-Jax
cthompson36
03-18-13, 20:31
so would installing that myself be cheaper than having a pro do it? how hard is it to deal with proprietary stuff?
Torque wrench might be costly. Have any mechanic friends?
Costly? They are like 30 to 40 bucks for a craftsman one. Plus if u get one you can use it for working on your vehicle also :) everyone should own one imo.
Honestly man if you really want that rail I'd sent it to ADCO or Randall @ AR15 barrels. Not a question of cheap. It's a question of is it built right.
With that said I still recommend the Centurion and its much much simpler to mount. Cut the delta ring off. Put the two halves of the HG on and tighten some screws.
-Jax
cthompson36
03-18-13, 20:56
yeah thats a good point. that was kinda part of my question too. I'm probably too simple to install it well myself. I guess I'll do my homework on what rail fits my needs and budget and send it off when i find that upper in stock.
If you are a DIYer, this will help...
Install (http://yhm.net/pdf/Install_Freefloat_Forearm.pdf)
If you think this is the only time you'll use many of the specialized tools, probably not worth it to do it yourself. But we all know that 5 years from now you'll need that tool for some reason, and be glad you bought it to do that handguard install years back!
cthompson36
03-18-13, 21:04
Well I'm about to go off to 7 years of college so id probably lose any tools id get anyways. I'm going to look into how much it will cost to have the pros do it
Do it yourself. Take the money you were going to use to have someone do it for you and buy some punches and a vise block. I do all the work on my rifles. It's not that complicated. If you run into a problem, there are plenty of sites to get the answers you need. Educate yourself on your rifle, you'll be glad you did!
cthompson36
03-19-13, 18:19
so other than the proprieatary wrenches specific for each handguard, what tools do i need for this? I have lots of punches and general use tools but not many specific for guns or AR's
johnpuga1982
03-19-13, 18:27
so other than the proprieatary wrenches specific for each handguard, what tools do i need for this? I have lots of punches and general use tools but not many specific for guns or AR's
Not necessarily the rail you want, but the idea is there. You don't need everything he's using, but it does help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TISbJ0iHIy0
cthompson36
03-19-13, 18:33
thanks for the link. the write up that has will really help. is there a vice block you guys recommend? seems that and the wrench are all i need
johnpuga1982
03-19-13, 18:36
I got the set from/made by Brownells.
cthompson36
03-19-13, 18:37
I'll look into those.
Is this the wrench I would need for the YHM? http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/wrenches/forearm-wrench-prod25016.aspx
Depends. Some places will do it for about twenty bucks. Which after tools and time, to me, is worth it for some rails.
However. I installed my TRX Alpha myself. Cut off the delta ring, spring and chopped down the FSP. Took about 45 minutes. Finished product is well worth it. Especially considering the low cost of the TRX to begin with. I bought a 30 dollar 4.5" grinder with a cutoff wheel to do it, I needed a grinder anyway for work, so I didn't roll that cost into it. Since I was buying it anyway.
You'll need an AR15 armorers wrench, punch set and a vice block and you could get by with that. As you do the work on your ar you'll relize what other tools you'll need.
I have found it really convenient to just have Bravo Company intsall them, great selection of rails and no hassles. Have DD rails on all my BCMs right from the factory. Love 'em. If you enjoy the DIY process then by all means go for it, otherwise can't beat ordering them from BCM with the rails installed.
Failure2Stop
03-19-13, 20:48
I've always said any thing related to cars or guns can be done by yourself with 5 things:
1. The right parts
2. The right tools
3. The right instruction
4. Patience.
5. Knowing your own limitations.
This could be a stand-alone sticky.
Sold advice.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
cthompson36
03-19-13, 21:20
oh i didnt know BCM would do it. how much did they charge?
This could be a stand-alone sticky.
Sold advice.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
I just saw this and agree. Honestly if you are filled with this many questions about what it is you are going to be performing on your rifle...
Don't. There are so many threads of people that attempted something and are now having to go find that gun smith, or worse. I might be overly cautious here, but if you get a setting incorrect..there are more serious repercussions. A mechanic works on a car...not a rifle. You may get it right, and then you may not. I would rather make sure it gets done right, because my wife or my kids may be shooting it, and I want to know it is done properly.
Well I'm about to go off to 7 years of college so id probably lose any tools id get anyways. I'm going to look into how much it will cost to have the pros do it
7 years of college?
Trimming a FSB is actually quite simple, I did mine in about 45 minutes and had never even attempted taking one off before I decided to get a rail. Steel punches and a 2lb hammer from harbor freight did the trick. I got a troy bravo rail so no proprietary stuff, it was stupid easy to do it all. I would not bother sending something like that in or taking it to a gunsmith. I am the DIY type though, partially because I enjoy it and partially because I don't have the cash to pay someone to do stuff.
IZinterrogator
03-20-13, 00:21
I had Rainier Arms install a DD rail system because I had a flash hider that needed to be pinned and welded at the same time. Due to needing to take off the FSB, it was $100 for the rail install. I installed the same rail on another rifle with a 16" barrel, it wasn't a pain at all.
If this is a one-time-only type deal, I'd just have someone else do it. My brother has swapped uppers/rails/etc for him and myself at LEAST 50-60 times and it's pretty easy and straightforward but can be costly for the right tools.
Right now, removing the damn FSB is the hardest part. I think installing the barrel nut will be easier.
Installing the YHM bbl nut doesn't require a torque wrench. It's not too hard to do, as long as you are confident/competent with the basic tools, such as punches, hammers, and wrenches.
However: Have you held any other rails outside of the YHM? I had a lightweight on my 6920 until I got the chance to hold an RIS II and a C4. They felt so much better in the hand that I ditched the YHM. They are much smaller in diameter, and their anti-rotation features give you the added security that they won't work the bbl nut loose.
If you are totally sold on the YHM, I have the wrench, rifle-length Lightweight rail, bbl nut, end cap, and specter clamp/bolt-on gas block (.750 diameter bbl) and instructions just sitting here taking up space. PM me if you are interested in it, I'd rather let it go cheap than sit on it. :D
7 years of college? Doctor, lawyer, veterinarian.....
Failure2Stop
03-20-13, 11:12
Doctor, lawyer, veterinarian.....
procrastinator...
cthompson36
03-20-13, 19:14
I'm getting a masters in business and a PHD in mechanical engineering. Alright thanks guys I think I'm convinced to get the pros to do it and maybe try it on my own when im out of college and can afford a messup. I have not felt any other handguards other than the standard ones that come on AR's off the shelf. I may do some research and find a nicer handguard since I'm splurging and getting a nicer upper than I already have. Thanks again guys youve been very helpful
mastiffhound
03-20-13, 19:54
Once you get the tools, and if you are a hands on type (I'm a mechanic) you will find yourself spending more money and playing with configurations just because you are always looking for an optimal set-up. Or maybe that's just me. The more you work on your own firearms the more you will understand how they operate. That is never a bad thing. Of course the potential to screw up is a possibility. I destroyed my share of radios, flashlights, sweepers, t.v. sets, and mowers as a kid. In the process I learned alot( I also learned about spankings too!) and was helping my grandpa at his t.v. repair service as a teenager. My dad was a mechanic so helping him was on the agenda too. It all depends what you are comfortable with, and if you are willing to pay for replacement if you screw up.
cthompson36
03-20-13, 19:59
I've done a lot to my 1911 and I've worked building houses for the past few summers so I'm fairly mechanically inclined, I would just rather not have to spend money to fix my mistakes since I'm pretty much broke right now. I may just have the pros do it and then tinker with it until im comfortable and then later on start doing it for myself.
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