View Full Version : DHS allowing Saudi's to bypass passport controls...
Belmont31R
03-21-13, 00:10
A Department of Homeland Security program intended to give "trusted traveler" status to low-risk airline passengers soon will be extended to Saudi travelers, opening the program to criticism for accommodating the country that produced 15 of the 19 hijackers behind the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/20/decision-to-extend-trusted-traveler-program-to-saudi-scrutinized/?test=latestnews
Meanwhile an active duty Marine with prosthetic legs is treated like shit and humiliated...
An active-duty Marine who lost both his legs to an Improvised Explosive Device was humiliated by TSA agents after he was forced to remove his prosthetic legs and was then ordered to stand so agents could inspect his wheelchair for explosives.
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/congressman-tsa-humiliates-injured-marine.html
What does one have to do with the other?
Yeah been hearing about the fast track and saw the vet thing !
Again ya cant make this insanity up anymore !
My 78 year old mom flying on employee travel pass was strip searched ! Have to be fair cant discriminate you know !
I wish everyone would stop travelling in protest for one week demand the airlines use their lobyist to stop this tsa bull !
Belmont31R
03-21-13, 00:32
Saudis can get expedited through security controls while US AD military with prosthetic limbs gets humiliated?
What does one have to do with the other?
Lets let the country where 11 out of the 15 9/11 people have a fast track nto our country but lets harrass our vets and demand we search then humiliate them
Thats my take on this
Meanwhile an active duty Marine with prosthetic legs is treated like shit and humiliated...More identification and some screeners want to show you their "I'm important too" or "you're in my world now" routine. Unfortunately not as quick for that Marine.
They said the screeners were vets also on the news ?
Strange guess some folks have authority issues and abuse a little power
You understand that the guy at customs and the TSA screeners have nothing at all to do with each other, right? You understand that the Saudi's are being included in a program of pre-screening, where the traveler is given a heightened degree of scrutiny in an application process, rather than leaving that to an immigration officer at entry to the U.S. who is trying to clear a flight of 300 passengers as quickly as he can to get to the next flight You understand that TSA has a similar program for expedited screening for domestic travelers, and a program for military travelers too, right?
Lumping the actions of a low-wage apparatchik, with absolutely no authority for autonomous decision making into a the same category as a vetting program, designed by a committee, with input from other agencies, designed to speed and expedite a process is pretty disingenuous.
Its all security of our nations airports and what is happening thats a joke these days !
You understand that the guy at customs and the TSA screeners have nothing at all to do with each other, right? You understand that the Saudi's are being included in a program of pre-screening, where the traveler is given a heightened degree of scrutiny in an application process, rather than leaving that to an immigration officer at entry to the U.S. who is trying to clear a flight of 300 passengers as quickly as he can to get to the next flight You understand that TSA has a similar program for expedited screening for domestic travelers, and a program for military travelers too, right?
Lumping the actions of a low-wage apparatchik, with absolutely no authority for autonomous decision making into a the same category as a vetting program, designed by a committee, with input from other agencies, designed to speed and expedite a process is pretty disingenuous.
Belmont31R
03-21-13, 01:33
You understand that the guy at customs and the TSA screeners have nothing at all to do with each other, right? You understand that the Saudi's are being included in a program of pre-screening, where the traveler is given a heightened degree of scrutiny in an application process, rather than leaving that to an immigration officer at entry to the U.S. who is trying to clear a flight of 300 passengers as quickly as he can to get to the next flight You understand that TSA has a similar program for expedited screening for domestic travelers, and a program for military travelers too, right?
Lumping the actions of a low-wage apparatchik, with absolutely no authority for autonomous decision making into a the same category as a vetting program, designed by a committee, with input from other agencies, designed to speed and expedite a process is pretty disingenuous.
The last time I flew on orders on a commercial plane I was treated no different than anyone else.
You do realize customs is a security element because you don't know how other countries screened people...
Did I say customs = TSA?
Maybe we can invite some more Saudis for flight training....:rolleyes:
Moose-Knuckle
03-21-13, 03:49
Hmmm TSA allows small knives (BOX CUTTERS) on planes again and now this . . .
LOL, you just can't make this shit up . . . :jester:
Hmmm TSA allows small knives (BOX CUTTERS) on planes again and now this . . .
LOL, you just can't make this shit up . . . :jester:
At the very least its bad optics X eleventy billion :lol:
Doubly so because we dont from I read extend the same courtesy to France and the UK.
At the very least its bad optics X eleventy billion :lol:
Doubly so because we dont from I read extend the same courtesy to France and the UK.
France and the UK are visa waiver countries, and fall under a different set of (more lax) rules.
Hmmm TSA allows small knives (BOX CUTTERS) on planes again and now this . . .
LOL, you just can't make this shit up . . . :jester:
I believe that box cutters and razors are still banned.
http://www.redding.com/news/2013/mar/15/tsa-stands-plan-allow-small-knives-planes-box-cutt/
The last time I flew on orders on a commercial plane I was treated no different than anyone else.
You do realize customs is a security element because you don't know how other countries screened people...
Did I say customs = TSA?
Maybe we can invite some more Saudis for flight training....:rolleyes:
You contrasted a TSA event with a CBP program. You don't think that Mid-Eastern visa applicants are not already subject to a higher degree of scrutiny than anyone else and that filtering out the lowest risk, frequent travelers frees up dwindling resources to better concentrate on those more deserving of the attention? As for TSA, until the decision making process at TSA is lowered about 12 levels, these guys are going to continue with the dumb moves. Screeners have no discretion. Couple that with a "rules are rules" mentality, driven home by a system that punishes them for every error and that kind of crap is going to continue. Saudi flight training? There are dozens here right now.
Littlelebowski
03-21-13, 07:19
Hmmm TSA allows small knives (BOX CUTTERS) on planes again and now this . . .
LOL, you just can't make this shit up . . . :jester:
Are you actually complaining about being able to take a ****ing pocket knife on a plane again?
It's AMAZING what "conservatives" want the gov't to limit but hey, maybe the gov't will someday limit everything that scares you.
Are you actually complaining about being able to take a ****ing pocket knife on a plane again?
It's AMAZING what "conservatives" want the gov't to limit but hey, maybe the gov't will someday limit everything that scares you.
Conservatives want less Govt involvement in everything.
Littlelebowski
03-21-13, 07:44
Conservatives want less Govt involvement in everything.
I had NO idea!
Sorry, missed the quotes around conservatives.
You understand that the guy at customs and the TSA screeners have nothing at all to do with each other, right? You understand that the Saudi's are being included in a program of pre-screening, where the traveler is given a heightened degree of scrutiny in an application process, rather than leaving that to an immigration officer at entry to the U.S. who is trying to clear a flight of 300 passengers as quickly as he can to get to the next flight You understand that TSA has a similar program for expedited screening for domestic travelers, and a program for military travelers too, right?
Lumping the actions of a low-wage apparatchik, with absolutely no authority for autonomous decision making into a the same category as a vetting program, designed by a committee, with input from other agencies, designed to speed and expedite a process is pretty disingenuous.
You understand that such logical thought does not make for good headlines. Much easier to create a false juxtaposition to get people worked up.
Moose-Knuckle
03-21-13, 15:48
Are you actually complaining about being able to take a ****ing pocket knife on a plane again?.
It’s lucidly obvious that I was merely pointing out the ****ing irony of it all.
It's AMAZING what "conservatives" want the gov't to limit but hey, maybe the gov't will someday limit everything that scares you.
What amazes me is your lack of deductive reasoning.
Belmont31R
03-21-13, 15:53
You contrasted a TSA event with a CBP program. You don't think that Mid-Eastern visa applicants are not already subject to a higher degree of scrutiny than anyone else and that filtering out the lowest risk, frequent travelers frees up dwindling resources to better concentrate on those more deserving of the attention? As for TSA, until the decision making process at TSA is lowered about 12 levels, these guys are going to continue with the dumb moves. Screeners have no discretion. Couple that with a "rules are rules" mentality, driven home by a system that punishes them for every error and that kind of crap is going to continue. Saudi flight training? There are dozens here right now.
If that is the case why is the TSA being dicks to active duty military members flying on orders?
You can't take a step back and see the contradiction in all this? Lets give an expedited pass to Saudis yet our own troops flying on orders get raped in security.
If that is the case why is the TSA being dicks to active duty military members flying on orders?
You can't take a step back and see the contradiction in all this? Lets give an expedited pass to Saudis yet our own troops flying on orders get raped in security.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/01/ap-army-green-beret-says-forgot-about-explosives-010312/
Just sayin...
Belmont31R
03-21-13, 16:11
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/01/ap-army-green-beret-says-forgot-about-explosives-010312/
Just sayin...
And? How many TSA screeners have been arrested?
So this soldier took explosives out of the war zone, against regs Stored them in his garage, and took them on a plane, and now he is being charged... Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
And? How many TSA screeners have been arrested?
Total? Or per capita? I'm sure the total is in the mid to upper double digits, perhaps in the low triple digits. Per capita it would be FAR lower than the general population. Most of those arrests have been for theft, though a few have been for contraband smuggling.
I'm not sure what that has to do with a soldier attempting to carry a couple of pounds of C4 onto a plane though? It was merely an illustration of why they get screened. :confused:
Belmont31R
03-21-13, 17:23
Total? Or per capita? I'm sure the total is in the mid to upper double digits, perhaps in the low triple digits. Per capita it would be FAR lower than the general population. Most of those arrests have been for theft, though a few have been for contraband smuggling.
I'm not sure what that has to do with a soldier attempting to carry a couple of pounds of C4 onto a plane though? It was merely an illustration of why they get screened. :confused:
It's a contradiction when one soldier, a Green Beret no less, get's in trouble for stuff he forgot he had, and then military flying on orders get's the anal probe but we let Saudis scoot around normal passport/security controls.
Wow one guy, who is probably near the bottom of the risk spectrum, forgets he has something....so lets treat every soldier like a threat but gives a pass to where a majority of the 9/11 attackers come from. Passport control is also a safety mechanism since bags are scanned and searched there for contraband. Why isn't the same done for AD flying on orders? AD military haven't hijacked planes and flown them into buildings. Saudis have.
It's a contradiction when one soldier, a Green Beret no less, get's in trouble for stuff he forgot he had, and then military flying on orders get's the anal probe but we let Saudis scoot around normal passport/security controls.
Wow one guy, who is probably near the bottom of the risk spectrum, forgets he has something....so lets treat every soldier like a threat but gives a pass to where a majority of the 9/11 attackers come from. Passport control is also a safety mechanism since bags are scanned and searched there for contraband. Why isn't the same done for AD flying on orders? AD military haven't hijacked planes and flown them into buildings. Saudis have.
I don't think you're getting my point. This time it was a SF guy who forgot. Who's to say next time it isn't a Maj. Nidal Hasan Jr. wannabe? Or a Timothy McVeigh wannabe? I made no comment on the juxtaposition of the Saudis vs. soldiers issue, but that a threat doesn't always wear a keffiyeh. ;)
Belmont31R
03-21-13, 17:33
I don't think you're getting my point. This time it was a SF guy who forgot. Who's to say next time it isn't a Maj. Nidal Hasan Jr. wannabe? Or a Timothy McVeigh wannabe? I made no comment on the juxtaposition of the Saudis vs. soldiers issue, but that a threat doesn't always wear a keffiyeh. ;)
We rode on chartered jets with personal and crew served weapons.
... Strange; guess some folks have authority issues and abuse a little power
No.
NOT strange.
Not at all...
Gutshot John
03-21-13, 19:15
It's a contradiction when one soldier, a Green Beret no less, get's in trouble for stuff he forgot he had, and then military flying on orders get's the anal probe but we let Saudis scoot around normal passport/security controls.
Incorrect. As a frequent traveller, I applied for and have been granted "pre-check" or "trusted flyer" status under the GOES program which this would be. This is extended to frequent domestic and international travellers.
You still get screened, you still pass through checkpoints. They do have their own dedicated lines, for people with trusted flyer status, but you don't get to bypass security, that claim is transparent nonsense.
People under this program are actually subject to HEIGHTENED security screening. They just get it done before they arrive at the airport. Moreover to qualify for the program you have to submit personal information including addresses, employers and family members going back 10 years. Not to mention being fingerprinted and having a background check done on you.
Much of this outrage might be minimized if people bothered to understand what the **** they were talking about.
Belmont31R
03-21-13, 19:25
I know what that program is, and is what I'm talking about. Why shouldn't military members on orders not be granted the same expedited travel?
Gutshot John
03-21-13, 19:39
I know what that program is, and is what I'm talking about. Why shouldn't military members on orders not be granted the same expedited travel?
Military members on orders and/or in uniform are given expedited travel privileges all the time.
That however is a different issue than claiming that saudis bypass typical security controls/checkpoints which was the clear implication of the thread and numerous posts here.
While you might be aware of this program (your statements reveal some misinformation), many other comments here are simply wrong.
I'd love it if more foreigners submitted themselves to this process.
We rode on chartered jets with personal and crew served weapons.
So have I. DoD charter flights are not regulated by TSA. They are exempt.
The president himself would be hassled if he was known to have boarded Air Force One with a little "forgotten" C4. There is really no issue here in that specific regard.
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