View Full Version : Adams Arms build quality
Hello guys,
I've been a forum lurker for a while and would like some feedback if you can regarding Adams Arms piston driven AR. I currently do not have an AR, just a few HK hand guns. I'm wanting to purchase my first AR and have been looking at Daniel Defense and also Adams Arms. The DD rifle has a massive amount of feedback and reviews online, Adams seems a little harder to locate.
I've read about how strict top makers such as DD, Noveske, LMT have their build process to make top end AR's... Is Adams Arms quality and build process on the same level?
The understand the Adams is a piston driven system as apposed to DI, but, other then the main difference is the build quality standards the same? I dont want to have any buyers remorse with the Adams if I move forward with that purchase.
Any feedback to help out a fellow gun enthusiast would be much appreciated.
Thank you,
iflylo
Hello guys,
I've been a forum lurker for a while and would like some feedback if you can regarding Adams Arms piston driven AR. I currently do not have an AR, just a few HK hand guns. I'm wanting to purchase my first AR and have been looking at Daniel Defense and also Adams Arms. The DD rifle has a massive amount of feedback and reviews online, Adams seems a little harder to locate.
I've read about how strict top makers such as DD, Noveske, LMT have their build process to make top end AR's... Is Adams Arms quality and build process on the same level?
The understand the Adams is a piston driven system as apposed to DI, but, other then the main difference is the build quality standards the same? I dont want to have any buyers remorse with the Adams if I move forward with that purchase.
Any feedback to help out a fellow gun enthusiast would be much appreciated.
Thank you,
iflylo
I think you have answered you own question. Most here would consider the DD to be the superior rifle.
Why? I'm just trying to understand what DD, noveske do in the manufacturing process that differs from Adams Arms. On the Adams Arms site it does state the barrel and internals are melonite coated which is a plus but does not list the "shot peened" and "mp" tested.
Hopefully will have one or the other this week and will join the club!
As a fellow newbie and longtime lurker, I have probably averaged reading an hour a day for close to two years, I have some advice that may help. Define the weapon's intended use and head that direction. Do the research and design and/or buy a weapon that will fulfill its intended use.
I my opinion, LAV has what appears to be a very useful set of guidelines on reasons why a person may choose a piston gun. I said that in that way because I have only my theories to confirm or not what an SME says. If I am in a public forum looking for advice I have absolutely no reason to assume he is full of shit and have to assume quite the opposite. There are other trusted contributors to this forum, they have real life experience as to why they recommend the things they do. If you weapon's purpose is in line with theirs, their advice may be very relevant to your decision.
The forum is very helpful if you listen, members are also fairly consistent in their opinions. The widely trusted members are very consistent. I believe this adds to the credibility in many ways. If you are looking to justify a purchase on an online forum you will probably always have "buyers remorse." Define your need and the weapon's purpose and make it happen. If it can be helped, in this political climate it may not be, take more time; you will be much more satisfied. Be more calculated than just joining the club.
Since this is my first post and another may not come for two more years, I would like to thank the SMEs and contributors to this forum. I am now the satisfied owner of a 10.5" LMT and a 6920. These weapons are on there way to fulfilling my needs and the weapon's intended use. I feel good about my purchases and in no way looking back.
Why would you buy an unknown quality rifle with whizz bang gadgets and proprietary parts when you could get a Known Good rifle?
That's the jist of it. Otherwise, you can pay AA to be their guinea pig. Your choice.
Hello guys,
I've been a forum lurker for a while and would like some feedback if you can regarding Adams Arms piston driven AR.
Consider investigating Huldra http://www.huldraarms.com/ . They're a forum sponsor here. The rifle is based on Adams Arms with some proprietary changes. They're popular around here, pioneered by some guys I shoot with regularly and sponsored by a large (33 store) upper midwest chain of hardware and sporting goods stores. I don't own one, but I have several friends that own them and have seen them perform in at least a couple of high-round count courses at the hands of some shooters and trainers that I respect. I find them impressive. If I were looking to go piston, that's what I'd do.
\/
Thank you for the numerous responses. I'm surprised at the somewhat negative vibe regarding AA. One of the posts brought up a good point and that was what my rifle will be used for which I left out.
I'm planning on making it a new range tool for practice and as I get better I've always wanted to complete some training/drill classes. I see myself doing a few of these on the regular as time moves on.
Once I'm comfortable with the function I'll be using it also for home defense, I do not work for an LE so its not a duty gun.
In terms of the piston concept and keeping things clean, I'm very particular about always cleaning my guns properly after every range trip and put back in the safe cleaned and lubed. Cutting down on the cleaning time is a bonus but not necessity.
I'll be reviewing all the advice. Again, thank you for taking the time to write comments. I'll update the thread with any direction I decide on.
iflylo
Consider investigating Huldra http://www.huldraarms.com/ . They're a forum sponsor here. The rifle is based on Adams Arms with some proprietary changes. They're popular around here, pioneered by some guys I shoot with regularly and sponsored by a large (33 store) upper midwest chain of hardware and sporting goods stores. I don't own one, but I have several friends that own them and have seen them perform in at least a couple of high-round count courses at the hands of some shooters and trainers that I respect. I find them impressive. If I were looking to go piston, that's what I'd do.
\/
I just youtubed this company and a video on the Huldra Arms channel states they are manufactured directly by Adams Arms...interesting.
Here is something to think about when you buy something with proprietary parts. That day you are in a class that you paid hundreds of dollars for and your rifle with proprietary parts goes down, it's very unlikely anyone will be able to get it up and running for you if you break any of the proprietary parts.. If you run a milspec AR it is VERY likely somebody has the parts you need right in the trunk of their car. If the world goes to Hell some day, AA piston parts are going to be far harder to find than standard milspec parts.
In terms of the piston concept and keeping things clean, I'm very particular about always cleaning my guns properly after every range trip and put back in the safe cleaned and lubed. Cutting down on the cleaning time is a bonus but not necessity. I run my regular DI guns for a thousand rounds without cleaning with a good lube. With a lube like Fireclean or Froglube cleaning takes me only a few minutes.
Magic_Salad0892
03-24-13, 23:46
As a fellow newbie and longtime lurker, I have probably averaged reading an hour a day for close to two years, I have some advice that may help. Define the weapon's intended use and head that direction. Do the research and design and/or buy a weapon that will fulfill its intended use.
I my opinion, LAV has what appears to be a very useful set of guidelines on reasons why a person may choose a piston gun. I said that in that way because I have only my theories to confirm or not what an SME says. If I am in a public forum looking for advice I have absolutely no reason to assume he is full of shit and have to assume quite the opposite. There are other trusted contributors to this forum, they have real life experience as to why they recommend the things they do. If you weapon's purpose is in line with theirs, their advice may be very relevant to your decision.
The forum is very helpful if you listen, members are also fairly consistent in their opinions. The widely trusted members are very consistent. I believe this adds to the credibility in many ways. If you are looking to justify a purchase on an online forum you will probably always have "buyers remorse." Define your need and the weapon's purpose and make it happen. If it can be helped, in this political climate it may not be, take more time; you will be much more satisfied. Be more calculated than just joining the club.
Since this is my first post and another may not come for two more years, I would like to thank the SMEs and contributors to this forum. I am now the satisfied owner of a 10.5" LMT and a 6920. These weapons are on there way to fulfilling my needs and the weapon's intended use. I feel good about my purchases and in no way looking back.
With an opening post like that, I hope to see more than just one post every two years.
That said. I'd recommend a quality DI gun. Like KAC, LMT, Colt, DD, or BCM. In this case, DD.
If there's 1 lesson to be learned from "The Great Panic of 2012/2013", it's this: DO NOT EXPECT spare parts to be there.
That, alone, would turn me away from any weapon system that requires proprietary parts in order to function. No piston-system -- certainly none by a small manufacturer as Adams Arms irrespective of how good/bad the quality may be -- will be as prolific as the DI-platform. Parts will always be less available. (Case in point: try to find an Adams Arms replacement piston rod or gas block right now ... from anybody other than the manufacturer themselves). It just is what it is.
Seeing as how this is your FIRST AR, I believe the choice is very obvious.
The AA will do absolutely nothing better than the Daniel Defense (or any other top-tier DI gun). This isn't about the "vibe" -- it is a fact.
It's pretty widely accepted that a piston will offer a greater recoil impulse over a similarly configured DI gun, so unless you are running a suppressed SBR....why the piston? :confused:
Well, I'm scared to buy anything but DI now for fear of m4carbine members stoning me to death if a piston system is purchased. :lol:
Well, I'm scared to buy anything but DI now for fear of m4carbine members stoning me to death if a piston system is purchased. :lol:
:confused:
Want a piston gun? Buy a ****ing piston gun.
Judging by your join date, lack of experience with the AR platform, and your attitude, it sounds like you already made your mind up prior to posting this thread. Buy whatever makes you happy man. Just don't act like a whiny bitch when your shit breaks and you can't find replacement parts.
:confused:
Want a piston gun? Buy a ****ing piston gun.
Judging by your join date, lack of experience with the AR platform, and your attitude, it sounds like you already made your mind up prior to posting this thread. Buy whatever makes you happy man. Just don't act like a whiny bitch when your shit breaks and you can't find replacement parts.
It's valuable contributions like this that make the internet such a valuable part of our lives.
PA PATRIOT
03-25-13, 11:02
:confused:
Want a piston gun? Buy a ****ing piston gun.
Judging by your join date, lack of experience with the AR platform, and your attitude, it sounds like you already made your mind up prior to posting this thread. Buy whatever makes you happy man. Just don't act like a whiny bitch when your shit breaks and you can't find replacement parts.
Sounds like someone forgot to take their "Med's" this morning before posting!
I own a A/A 16" Mid-Length upper just for the reason to see if it would run a bit cleaner when using my favorite cheap steel case at matches and courses.
Lots of folks here repeat the AR gospel, recite the approved brands and bash most non listed items whether they have ever owned one or had any experience with it but just because it was not on the list.
While the list is a good place to start when considering a new AR other platforms such as piston guns are starting to make the rounds through the AR community and actual use opinions are starting to surface.
My A/A upper on a PSA branded lower (FN built) has close to 10K fired without any function issues or part breakage. Clean up is much quicker as the upper and lower stay much cleaner with the piston design and a simple wipe down of the piston and bolt which is melonite coated takes only a minute or so to complete.
I keep a few redundant A/A proprietary springs on hand stored in my pistol grip just in case but the originals are still going strong and if a spring ever does go its a no tool quick replacement.
I like A/A's piston uppers and would recommend them to others.
:confused:
Want a piston gun? Buy a ****ing piston gun.
Judging by your join date, lack of experience with the AR platform, and your attitude, it sounds like you already made your mind up prior to posting this thread. Buy whatever makes you happy man. Just don't act like a whiny bitch when your shit breaks and you can't find replacement parts.
Wow man, don't stress out. You don't have to reply anymore to this thread if you get so disgruntled. I own three hk p7m8's which are running a piston system and its one of the nicest shooting 9mm I've ever used.
I came here to get some user feedback not to be bashed for asking questions and potentially going against the grain. Trying to locate parts during any type of panic buy will be near impossible.
Yeah I'm fairly new to posting here but doesn't give you the right to give another person less respect for asking questions, that's an ignorant way to think. Asking question and reading from accredited resources is how we learn man.
Appreciate all the help from members thus far minus the little aggression from you.
iflylo
SomeOtherGuy
03-25-13, 14:37
I had an Adams Arms upper for several months. Worked fine in limited use. Superficial signs of quality (like finish) were good. I have no idea how good the underlying manufacturing process and engineering are. If you just have to have a piston setup in something like a standard AR, it's probably a decent choice. However, I would strongly recommend a conventional DI AR instead, they work just great and are a standardized design; and if you must have a piston, I would get something like a SCAR that was designed as a piston setup from the clean sheet onward.
A lot like barrel rifling methods, it's not so important what the operating system is as how well it is engineered. Pistons work great in the FAL, AK, SCAR, etc.... they cause issues in an AR design. DI works great in the AR, designed from day one as DI and improved since. Delayed blowback works great in a well-made G3. Etc. Buy quality, buy proven, at least if your main goal is having it work. If you want something cool and fun that you do NOT depend on, go for something different.
I own three hk p7m8's which are running a piston system and its one of the nicest shooting 9mm I've ever used.
Those aren't a piston in the sense used in an AR - they are a gas-delayed blowback design. It's pretty cool, but there's a reason it's not common or still in production.
All the best ARs already have a piston
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
Wow man, don't stress out. You don't have to reply anymore to this thread if you get so disgruntled. I own three hk p7m8's which are running a piston system and its one of the nicest shooting 9mm I've ever used.
I came here to get some user feedback not to be bashed for asking questions and potentially going against the grain. Trying to locate parts during any type of panic buy will be near impossible.
Yeah I'm fairly new to posting here but doesn't give you the right to give another person less respect for asking questions, that's an ignorant way to think. Asking question and reading from accredited resources is how we learn man.
Appreciate all the help from members thus far minus the little aggression from you.
iflylo
I fail to see how a piston working in a 9mm pistol has any impact on a piston rifle. I have owned an HKP7M8 for a brief period of time, so I am really perplexed by your comparison.
I fail to see how a piston working in a 9mm pistol has any impact on a piston rifle. I have owned an HKP7M8 for a brief period of time, so I am really perplexed by your comparison.
I stated this in response to a post about being hard to acquire parts for a piston rifle. Hk no longer produces the p7m8 which makes getting parts if needed a little more challenging though not impossible.
Even now its really tough to get parts for a DI ar15, it will be until the market stabilizes wouldn't you agree?
Littlelebowski
03-25-13, 17:14
I stated this in response to a post about being hard to acquire parts for a piston rifle. Hk no longer produces the p7m8 which makes getting parts if needed a little more challenging though not impossible.
Even now its really tough to get parts for a DI ar15, it will be until the market stabilizes wouldn't you agree?
Spare us your rationalizing and just buy the damned piston since your mind was made up before this thread was started.
Spare us your rationalizing and just buy the damned piston since your mind was made up before this thread was started.
Hey pal,
Why take the time to post in a thread annoyed? My mind isn't made up which is why I'm posting here. Its my hard earned money and I can make an educated decision after I feel comfortable. I'm not going to drink the cool-aid just because someone says "do this because we said".
Either way I'm finished with this thread and I wont be posting further, I see its upset a few guys and that wasn't my intention to start.
iflylo
Yeah! And stay off my lawn too....
mass-diver
03-25-13, 18:39
I never wanted a piston, then I read the HK 416 user thread on here and it made me reconsider.
Hey pal,
Why take the time to post in a thread annoyed? My mind isn't made up which is why I'm posting here. Its my hard earned money and I can make an educated decision after I feel comfortable. I'm not going to drink the cool-aid just because someone says "do this because we said".
Either way I'm finished with this thread and I wont be posting further, I see its upset a few guys and that wasn't my intention to start.
iflylo
Don't let the door hit you on the way out?
Few points:
1) Nobody is upset. You're not that cool to make anybody here butthurt.
2) You're absolutely right, it's your hard-earned money. Do the American thing and spend it freely how you choose.
3) If you come to this site, asking for an objective comparison between one Daniel Defense and one Adams Arms product, you will receive objective advice/reasoning/facts. This is the main draw for M4Carbine.net and the key differentiation versus other discussion forums. There's no magical "vibe", or "kool-aid", like you seem to believe. Fact: A Daniel Defense rifle will outperform and outlast the Adams Arms counterpart, and should the need ever arise, spare parts will be far easier to source for it.
...Why take the time to post in a thread annoyed?...
Because you're in our yard being annoying, telling folks their hard won experience and knowledge comes from a pitcher of Kool-Aid.
So here's a free fish from the Big Bad Wolf- The Adams Arms upper ain't got nothing the legacy AR upper ain't got except an op-rod. It don't do nothing the legacy upper don't do except maybe dump it's dirt in another location. It ain't cleaner, more reliable, more durable or run cooler. The only thing it does better is suck more money out of your pocket because it costs more.
Critical Thinking Time-
1) An op-rod upper does nothing better than the legacy system
2) An op-rod upper costs more than the legacy system
Ergo, the legacy system is a better value
I'll give you a couple other gifts. First, a fishing pole which, in this case, is a search engine. Second is the bait. Stoner Patent #2,951,424. It's just a small worm, and will catch you a small fish, but it should help feed you as you take your first step on a journey to learn how the AR actually works and not simply regurgitate what you've been spoon fed on the internet.
Use these gifts wisely, grasshopper
Well, to be honest, the OP was bashed before having shown any attitude himself. The cool-aid comment was only part of his very last post. The forum members pride themselves on the professionalism of the board; the tone in ^Rb's last posts in this thread does not reflect that.
The OP asked some questions and follow-up questions based on his experience level, and some of the posts directed at him were far from helpful. If anything, the so-called "annoying" behavior of the OP is a result of him being antagonized by other posters.
And although listening to experience is good advice, I agree with the OP that one should not just take something at face value just because someone says it is so. Doing research is important.
There is a lot of subjective conjecture in this thread, as opposed to objective and factual data.
The new kid is back...Alright Mistwolf and Rb, the last two responses are appreciated as I just wanted some of your feedback to start with. Either of these guns will cost me +- 2k after mags and optic ect, with the piston system costing a even more.
I was on here trying to see how that was justified and a general consesus it seems as though it may be wasteful to many m4carbine members to run the piston.
So, not tring to be annoying or slam anyone. I'll continue to research read up on the tips given to me.
Best,
iflylo
I give you props for not letting us run you off and kudos for accepting the research assignment. Sometimes it's rough when you're the new kid.
Welcome to the forums
Hello guys,
I've been a forum lurker for a while and would like some feedback if you can regarding Adams Arms piston driven AR. I currently do not have an AR, just a few HK hand guns. I'm wanting to purchase my first AR and have been looking at Daniel Defense and also Adams Arms. The DD rifle has a massive amount of feedback and reviews online, Adams seems a little harder to locate.
I've read about how strict top makers such as DD, Noveske, LMT have their build process to make top end AR's... Is Adams Arms quality and build process on the same level?
The understand the Adams is a piston driven system as apposed to DI, but, other then the main difference is the build quality standards the same? I dont want to have any buyers remorse with the Adams if I move forward with that purchase.
Any feedback to help out a fellow gun enthusiast would be much appreciated.
Thank you,
iflylo
Let me ask a question, why Adams Arms? Why not the HK 416/MR556 or a new LWRC rifle. All of which LAV has said are good rifles. So, why AA if you want a piston gun? If you say price, I'll say that IMO you can't afford a piston gun. My point is to buy the best rifle you can afford regardless of the system. If you can afford either DI or piston, buy the one you want, but buy the best quality one you can.
Personally, I don't care if you buy piston or DI. If you want piston, get it. But for me personally, if I'm buying a piston gun, I'll take the advice I just gave you and look at an HK or an LWRC. If DI, I have a DD rifle, so right now BCM because they've been supportive of our 2A rights and I think that deserves some consideration.
YMMV and it is your money, so I won't be terribly upset if don't follow my advice.
Let me ask a question, why Adams Arms? Why not the HK 416/MR556 or a new LWRC rifle. All of which LAV has said are good rifles. So, why AA if you want a piston gun? If you say price, I'll say that IMO you can't afford a piston gun. My point is to buy the best rifle you can afford regardless of the system. If you can afford either DI or piston, buy the one you want, but buy the best quality one you can.
Personally, I don't care if you buy piston or DI. If you want piston, get it. But for me personally, if I'm buying a piston gun, I'll take the advice I just gave you and look at an HK or an LWRC. If DI, I have a DD rifle, so right now BCM because they've been supportive of our 2A rights and I think that deserves some consideration.
YMMV and it is your money, so I won't be terribly upset if don't follow my advice.
Great question man. I'm a huge HK fan, so the MR556 has been on my radar. The only problem currently is that its near impossible to find one unless Gunbroker with ridiculous prices. The only reason I posted on AA is because a local shop had one for sale. I ideally like to do business with a local company to help support them and also for future needs it makes things smoother.
I'm going to slow my purchase down, after all the responses I have on here and searching you are right...which ever direction I go I want the best I can afford.
iflylo
Critical Thinking Time-
1) An op-rod upper does nothing better than the legacy system
Many SMEs disagree with this. Op rod uppers do better, according to people who put more rounds down range per year than I will in my life, in SBRs, while suppressed, and while shooting full auto. Especially all three combined. But if you aren't doing any of those three, a DI upper will serve you better. And yes mistwolf, I know calling it DI is a pet peeve of yours. :cool:
Also, I don't buy the "spare parts" argument. Only 1 or 2 parts on an AA system, for example, will be hard to source a replacement for if shtf or something. He could go out and buy a SCAR 16 and have every single part aside from the pistol grip as hard to source a replacement. Or he could buy a SR15 and never find a spare bolt or barrel. I'm not saying he'll ever need a replacement, but those weapons do have wear parts. A solid op rod won't likely break and will probably last the life of the entire weapon. Yes, they have broke at least once in the past, but every company has issues from time to time.
The same argument about parts can be made for any pistol that's not a Glock, 1911, or 92fs.
Many SMEs disagree with this. Op rod uppers do better, according to people who put more rounds down range per year than I will in my life, in SBRs, while suppressed, and while shooting full auto...
Not all agree that the op-rod is superior under these conditions. A legacy AR works just as well when the gas port is properly regulated.
There are a lot of things I've seen on the internet about the Stoner system and the op-rod conversion concerning heat, fouling, recoil and reliability just to name a few, that have proven to be less than accurate. Some folks just don't understand how things work and try to explain them without knowing what they don't know. Like the claim the gas pressure in the BCG pushes the bolt forward to assist with unlocking. Applying a bit of logic will prove that's an impossibility, yet the myth persists.
Stoner himself said his gas system is not a direct impingement system. Sure, it is a pet peeve, but pets need to get out to play now and again!
Great question man. I'm a huge HK fan, so the MR556 has been on my radar. The only problem currently is that its near impossible to find one unless Gunbroker with ridiculous prices. The only reason I posted on AA is because a local shop had one for sale. I ideally like to do business with a local company to help support them and also for future needs it makes things smoother.
I'm going to slow my purchase down, after all the responses I have on here and searching you are right...which ever direction I go I want the best I can afford.
iflylo
Just take a few weeks and read everything you can on different rifles. When someone like LAV says GTG, I note it. Not just him because there are others, but guys at that level know what works and what doesn't. While they may have some individual preferences, they also will have some common ones. And when budgeting also remember that mags, training, slings, ammo, lights etc all cost money as well. I think people tend to forget this when they budget for a firearm, but those things are important. No need to have something you can't afford to shoot. Good luck and welcome to M4. Yes it is always like this, but you'll get use to it.
OP - You could always buy a DD upper and replace the FSB/BCG/gas tube with an AA piston system. You can even keep the DD bolt too if you remove the gas rings.
Not all agree that the op-rod is superior under these conditions. A legacy AR works just as well when the gas port is properly regulated.
"many" != "all"
There are a lot of things I've seen on the internet about the Stoner system and the op-rod conversion concerning heat, fouling, recoil and reliability just to name a few, that have proven to be less than accurate.
Sure there are a lot of myths. But the fact that some myths exist does not mean the op-rod system has no merits whatsoever, which is what you are saying when you wrote:
1) An op-rod upper does nothing better than the legacy system
Stoner himself said his gas system is not a direct impingement system. Sure, it is a pet peeve, but pets need to get out to play now and again!
DI is easier to say than "Stoner gas system in the AR15 FOW." We all know it's not actually DI because there's an internal piston.
:confused:
Want a piston gun? Buy a ****ing piston gun.
Judging by your join date, lack of experience with the AR platform, and your attitude, it sounds like you already made your mind up prior to posting this thread. Buy whatever makes you happy man. Just don't act like a whiny bitch when your shit breaks and you can't find replacement parts.
It's valuable contributions like this that make the internet such a valuable part of our lives.
Sarcasm: the best form of humor. :sarcastic:
It's really unfortunate that a forum like this, which represents gun owners and the entire industry, tolerates comments like this. As a fellow "noob" (apparently the title designated to new members, regardless of their level of prior knowledge or experience) I feel for the OP in his quest for decent advice. I have run into the same thing, asking questions or going against the grain. All posts like this show is the immaturity of the poster, who apparently cannot treat someone with common courtesy and must resort to name calling, dropping the f-bomb and assuming things about people he/she doesn't know, rather than just politely responding to the OP or pointing him/her to the stickies or another source of information. Can't we treat each other with a little more respect around here?
That said, here's my advice to the OP (from a fellow newbie): Why don't you get both? Buy one of the mentioned "known quality" rifles and then get a second piston upper from the manufacturer of your choice. From a training standpoint, both will function the same. Use the piston gun for range time and classes if you wish, and then swap back to the DI upper for the serious business if you feel the DI is more reliable. You may find an Adams Arms piston upper is just as reliable in your experience as a Daniels Defense/BCM/Colt, or you may find the opposite. Either way, you'll have first hand experience and a quality "back up plan" should the piston upper fail to meet your expectations. And if it does make the grade, now you have two uppers to configure differently if you want. Sounds like a win-win to me.
Littlelebowski
03-26-13, 13:20
What would really be amazing is that someone shows up here, quietly searches and reads, realizes that:
a DI/Stoner piston gun is cheaper and just as easy to maintain (hose it out with non chlorinated brake cleaner)
cleaning is overrated
training is paramount
money towards an optics is better than some goddamned proprietary piston
that ALL of this knowledge is freely available via the orange Search button
Instead, he's not going to listen, not going to search, not going to read, and not going to train. Prove me wrong.
What would really be amazing is that someone shows up here, quietly searches and reads, realizes that:
The problem is selective viewing. Sort of like guns used in self defense. Hundreds, maybe thousands, do indeed use the search button. But when they do, they don't make threads, so you never hear about the successes. What you do see is the few that post first and search later. You're not going to see people post just to say, "Hey everyone, just FYI, I used the search button. Ok, go back to your daily browsing."
To think otherwise is to fall into the same trap as people who think guns are never used in self defense because such a use never makes the news.
a DI/Stoner piston gun is cheaper and just as easy to maintain
Not always true. SR-15, Noveske, Larue, and many other DI guns are more expensive than a piston system like Adams Arms. But yes both are easy to maintain, I don't see anyone making any claims to the contrary.
cleaning is overrated
Yep. Pistons are arguably easier to clean, but it doesn't matter.
training is paramount
Ok?
money towards an optics is better than some goddamned proprietary piston
Arguable, and assuming money is an issue. This guy could be a millionaire that won't hesitate to drop $5k on an HK416 upper AND $3k on a S&B optic. Hell, I've seen it happen at gun stores.
that ALL of this knowledge is freely available via the orange Search button
Needs to be more obvious, like maybe bright blue and not wedged in between two huge rows of advertisements. To most people, ads are annoying as hell and ignored for the most part. I honestly never knew there was an orange bar of buttons for the first few months I was here, I used the plain text links placed in the regular vBulletin location. I'd imagine most people completely disregard the top half of M4C pages because of the massive amounts of ads.
ltdanicecream
03-26-13, 17:34
I have an AA 16" upper, it's worked flawless after running a few hundred rounds through it. That said, I still prefer DI ARs over pistons, just my opinion.
Singlestack Wonder
03-26-13, 17:53
I have an AA 16" upper, it's worked flawless after running a few hundred rounds through it. That said, I still prefer DI ARs over pistons, just my opinion.
Wait until you have several thousands of rounds thru it before signing off that it is gtg.
ltdanicecream
03-26-13, 17:55
Wait until you have several thousands of rounds thru it before signing off that it is gtg.
It probably will never have that many rounds through it, nothing against AA but I just don't like the way piston ARs feel, I much prefer DI.
Like another posted commented; if you're going piston why not go with more established manufacturer like LWRC or PWS?
Jake.g.dpms
03-26-13, 21:35
How come nobody has mentioned LMT's piston uppers and rifles?
While the market is tough and though I claim not the expert on ARs "I should be I bought my first Colt Ar in the 1970s" From use and experience if you buy a BCM product, Colt or Daniel Defense you will be satisfied. They are proven to stand up to hard useage.
Like another posted commented; if you're going piston why not go with more established manufacturer like LWRC or PWS?
I have seen at training classes Keltec CA16s,The heavier barrel ones with threaded barrels run without failures and at the same training class low end ARs fail to operate properly.
While the market is tough and though I claim not the expert on ARs "I should be I bought my first Colt Ar in the 1970s" From use and experience if you buy a BCM product, Colt or Daniel Defense you will be satisfied. They are proven to stand up to hard useage.
Colt makes a piston AR...
Evening guys, I wanted to update everyone who contributed here. So I'm fairly new to the site and my thread started off a little bumpy, no hard feelings though. I purchased a Daniel Defense M4V5 and made the choice based on my research and feedback from people with more knowledge than me.
I had been doing countless hours of googling before even posting here and I'm also very glad I did post. Fellow members sent me some informative PM's and great posts within to help me make an educated decision.
Both rifles were available to me at a local shop, straight up msrp. My usage will always allow me to clean the gun throughouly after each session at range or class. This decreased the AA appeal as the added cost for BCG cleanliness wasn't going to benefit me much. I also googled both DD and AA for their company information as a whole, who will be a safer bet for long term support. Daniel Defense generated some 35+ million in sales for 11' and Adams Arms did under 1 million from what I read.
I also called both companies and spoke to a DD rep right away, two days have gone by without a return call from Adams. Wasn't a big issue but they lost a sale. I'm pleased with the quality, after holding both there was noticable play from the Adams upper and lower..none in the DD.
I also feel that down the road if I ever wanted to sell the Daniel Defense would be much easier to move.
Thank you for reading the long winded post, I'm super excited and now I need to learn how to properly use the new tool I have.
I would love to post pictures if anyone wants to help PM me email address and I'll send them to you!
Best,
iflylo
Markasaurus
03-30-13, 06:59
Oh well, you already got the DD so I'm late. I'm sure your rifle will work out fine. For anyone else reading thsi post later with the same question, here was my reply to the piston gun question.
Stag arms offers a piston gun. They use mil spec parts (they supply many of the parts for other manufacturers already, the parts just don't happen to have "STAG" stamped on them).
This rifle was designed as a piston gun and not simply a DI gun modified with the Adams arms kit. The most important thing: LIFETIME WARRANTY. They do honor it i am told, too. Does the Adams arms or even the DD have a lifetime warranty? They build em like they back em.
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