View Full Version : SR-15, can't decide on one, help me
TheToad263
03-26-13, 14:40
I am going to be buying an SR-15 upper and I can't decide on which model (barrel length/rail) to get. I am looking more at the longer end of the length spectrum, 18", 16" basically. I am planning on building an SBR after this, so I don't want any of the shorter length barrels for this SR-15.
I keep on deciding that I want to go with the 18" LPR, but shortly after that I convince myself that the 16" Mod 1 is the better more practical way to go. Probably the biggest thing that is keeping me from completely loving the 18" LPR is the barrel life. While I would like this rifle to be precise, I also shoot a lot and replacing a barrel is never fun, especially for your wallet. Now I don't know anything about Knight's Armaments stainless steel barrels, so it is possible that they have also developed something like Noveske which produces stainless steel barrels that supposedly has a much longer life than typical stainless barrels. If KAC makes special long lasting stainless barrels then I would go with the LPR in a second, but again I am unclear as of yet, so I will continue to also consider the 16" Mod 1.
Other than the barrel and gas system length, this is pretty much the same as the 18" LPR. The 16" barrel is chrome lined, which will certainly lead to a long lifespan. Especially when meticulously maintained. The biggest drawback I have with the 16" is the shorter gas system. While the KAC mid-length gas system is longer than the standard mid-length gas system, it is still not as long as the rifle length gas system on the 18" version. Therefore the 18" rifle should be the smoothest/lightest to fire. I am curious however to hear from anyone who has fired both SR-15 gas system lengths. One of the biggest selling points of the SR-15 is its smooth feeling operation along with its lightweight.
It should be said however that each of these two rifles would actually be built/configured rather differently. With the 18" version I would probably go with an atlas bipod, PRS stock, and a 1-4X Nightforce NXS scope. On the 16" it would probably be more like a magpul angled foregrip, UBR stock and Aimpoint Micro. So really they would be quite dissimilar firearms.
The Geissele SD-E trigger, the Magpul MIAD grip, the Triple Tap compensator, the Primary Weapons Systems enhanced 416 buffer tube, Raptor charging handle.
So, while I highly doubt anyone has made it this far into the post (and congratulations to those who have!), which rifle would you pick? Is the shorter barrel life worth it to get the softer shooting longer gas system or is the opposite true?
Dist. Expert 26
03-26-13, 16:50
If you want two completely different setups, get two rifles. Simple as that. I can't personally speak for the lifespan of the Knights barrels, but they are one of the most reputable manufacturers in the business so I wouldn't worry too much.
You said that the 18" gun would be configured as an SPR, so would you really be running it that hard anyway?
I am going to be buying an SR-15 upper and I can't decide on which model (barrel length/rail) to get. I am looking more at the longer end of the length spectrum, 18", 16" basically. I am planning on building an SBR after this, so I don't want any of the shorter length barrels for this SR-15.
I keep on deciding that I want to go with the 18" LPR, but shortly after that I convince myself that the 16" Mod 1 is the better more practical way to go. Probably the biggest thing that is keeping me from completely loving the 18" LPR is the barrel life. While I would like this rifle to be precise, I also shoot a lot and replacing a barrel is never fun, especially for your wallet. Now I don't know anything about Knight's Armaments stainless steel barrels, so it is possible that they have also developed something like Noveske which produces stainless steel barrels that supposedly has a much longer life than typical stainless barrels. If KAC makes special long lasting stainless barrels then I would go with the LPR in a second, but again I am unclear as of yet, so I will continue to also consider the 16" Mod 1.
Other than the barrel and gas system length, this is pretty much the same as the 18" LPR. The 16" barrel is chrome lined, which will certainly lead to a long lifespan. Especially when meticulously maintained. The biggest drawback I have with the 16" is the shorter gas system. While the KAC mid-length gas system is longer than the standard mid-length gas system, it is still not as long as the rifle length gas system on the 18" version. Therefore the 18" rifle should be the smoothest/lightest to fire. I am curious however to hear from anyone who has fired both SR-15 gas system lengths. One of the biggest selling points of the SR-15 is its smooth feeling operation along with its lightweight.
It should be said however that each of these two rifles would actually be built/configured rather differently. With the 18" version I would probably go with an atlas bipod, PRS stock, and a 1-4X Nightforce NXS scope. On the 16" it would probably be more like a magpul angled foregrip, UBR stock and Aimpoint Micro. So really they would be quite dissimilar firearms.
The Geissele SD-E trigger, the Magpul MIAD grip, the Triple Tap compensator, the Primary Weapons Systems enhanced 416 buffer tube, Raptor charging handle.
So, while I highly doubt anyone has made it this far into the post (and congratulations to those who have!), which rifle would you pick? Is the shorter barrel life worth it to get the softer shooting longer gas system or is the opposite true?
The Mod1 has a very good recoil impulse and comparing it to the LPR is splitting hairs from a recoil standpoint. The LPR will be heavier. If you're concerned about barrel life and shoot a considerable amount, the CHF chrome lined barrels will win every time. The LPR is very nice, but not really designed to run and gun. Based on the very different configurations you've outlined, you need to decide what you want to do with the gun and pick the one that suits your needs. They are different guns designed for different purposes. Your last comment seems to indicate that softer recoil is your main concern. For me, the additional weight of the LPR isn't worth the slight differences in recoil impulse. Unless you want a gun where accuracy is your PRIMARY goal, the Mod1 is a better all around choice.
A couple of follow up questions on your proposed "enhancements" :
The Geissele SD-E trigger - why? You may want to try the KAC 2 stage a while before ditching it
Triple Tap compensator - cool, but pricey - have you considered the Battlecomp or BCM comp?
Primary Weapons Systems enhanced 416 buffer tube - what does it do that the standard milspec buffer tube doesn't do?
Raptor charging handle - are you a lefty?
Don't get hung up on the latest & greatest cool guy gear. Slow down and figure out what you want and why you want it.
One of the biggest selling points of the SR-15 is its smooth feeling operation along with its lightweight.
Completely agree - it is one of the reasons I like my own SR15E3 so much. Why the UBR then? I agree it is perhaps the toughest collapsible stock available, but it is also the heaviest. I personally find the SOPMOD or Magpul CTR much better choices for the 16" model.
Also, why the Triple Tap on the LPR? I mounted one on my SR15E3 and have since moved to another muzzle device. It was great for drills like the VTAC Half & Half, but I don't really see the role for it on a precision platform with a bipod - I'd prefer a flash suppressor for that application. That said, the KAC MAMS should hit the market shortly and appears to offer both better performance than the Triple Tap combined with lower price.
ETA: By the way, I don't think either the PRS or UBR is going to work with the PWS 416 'Buffer Tube'. The PRS is supposed to work with a rifle length receiver extension, and the UBR uses its own proprietary receiver extension.
Voodoo_Man
03-26-13, 18:58
The 16 inch 3.1 rail upper is awesome, get it.
The 18 inch...is awesome but good luck getting one.
One more thought, to take advantage of the LPR's accuracy, you will usually be shooting from a supported position, which sort of takes the whole recoil issue out of the equation.
I've owned an E3 since they were first released and it remains my favorite rifle. When the LPR was first announced I waited awhile for them to be released and finally gave up and built my own with a Noveske barrel. The 2 guns serve a completely different purpose and I've got each one setup for its intended use. Best of both worlds.
yallknowho
03-26-13, 20:20
I am going to be buying an SR-15 upper and I can't decide on which model (barrel length/rail) to get. I am looking more at the longer end of the length spectrum, 18", 16" basically. I am planning on building an SBR after this, so I don't want any of the shorter length barrels for this SR-15.
I keep on deciding that I want to go with the 18" LPR, but shortly after that I convince myself that the 16" Mod 1 is the better more practical way to go. Probably the biggest thing that is keeping me from completely loving the 18" LPR is the barrel life. While I would like this rifle to be precise, I also shoot a lot and replacing a barrel is never fun, especially for your wallet. Now I don't know anything about Knight's Armaments stainless steel barrels, so it is possible that they have also developed something like Noveske which produces stainless steel barrels that supposedly has a much longer life than typical stainless barrels. If KAC makes special long lasting stainless barrels then I would go with the LPR in a second, but again I am unclear as of yet, so I will continue to also consider the 16" Mod 1.
Other than the barrel and gas system length, this is pretty much the same as the 18" LPR. The 16" barrel is chrome lined, which will certainly lead to a long lifespan. Especially when meticulously maintained. The biggest drawback I have with the 16" is the shorter gas system. While the KAC mid-length gas system is longer than the standard mid-length gas system, it is still not as long as the rifle length gas system on the 18" version. Therefore the 18" rifle should be the smoothest/lightest to fire. I am curious however to hear from anyone who has fired both SR-15 gas system lengths. One of the biggest selling points of the SR-15 is its smooth feeling operation along with its lightweight.
It should be said however that each of these two rifles would actually be built/configured rather differently. With the 18" version I would probably go with an atlas bipod, PRS stock, and a 1-4X Nightforce NXS scope. On the 16" it would probably be more like a magpul angled foregrip, UBR stock and Aimpoint Micro. So really they would be quite dissimilar firearms.
The Geissele SD-E trigger, the Magpul MIAD grip, the Triple Tap compensator, the Primary Weapons Systems enhanced 416 buffer tube, Raptor charging handle.
So, while I highly doubt anyone has made it this far into the post (and congratulations to those who have!), which rifle would you pick? Is the shorter barrel life worth it to get the softer shooting longer gas system or is the opposite true?
dude, shorter gas system on the 16? shorter than what, rifle length? the 16" would have cycling issues with a rifle gas system.
don't buy so much into the nit picky performance rhetoric. all that stuff really doesn't matter that much. niether does your stock pick, grip and certainly not the buffer tube.
I timed the splits with my tricked out sr15 with triple tap, SD3G trigger and A5 vs a 16" carbine length gas upper with gritty milspec trigger. guess what the difference was? like 3 hundredths of a second.
the mod1 will be plenty fine for any application you throw at it. you can put a 1-4 on it if you want and stretch it out a bit.
also, if you can afford the ammo to shoot out a barrel, replacing the barrel is not gonna be a big deal.
I went 16 with Battle comp and bravo CH. very light and very handy. Smooth recoil impulse. Good stuff.
I went 16 with Battle comp and bravo CH. very light and very handy. Smooth recoil impulse. Good stuff.
Great stuff!
With all due respect, I think you're overanalyzing it.
They're both soft shooters. The LPR will be heavier. You're most likely going to be shooting from a bench/prone position so the weight and recoil (mentioned above) will be neglible.
The Mod1 one will last you longer due to the chrome barrel. I felt more comfortable when running different stages with the Mod1 just because it's a tad lighter.
They are two different guns for two different apps. I wouldn't be so anxious to swap stuff out. Give the KAC 2-stage a chance. It's no slouch. Stand by for the MAMS. The triple tap was quite expensive and I don't think the it adds enough value for the price. Give the stock configs a try and go from there.
A 1-4 would be nice on either. I run a 1-8 and 2.5-10 on my LPR's. On my Mod1 and legacy models, I run a red dots.
They're already a great guns out of the box. Optics, mags, ammo are really all it needs. Maybe a specific mount for the suppressor. Then go out and shoot them. With all that being said, I say get both!
I could not pick one as well for some time. I have a few Colts 11.5, 16.1, and 20" guns so I ended up buying the LPR. I thought I would try the 18" gun out and I love it.
Now the hard part... finding the right scope.
I ended up putting the KAC 2 stage triggers and KAC RAS on all my Colts.
I do hope in time I can change out my 11.5 and my 16" guns out for Knights. That will be some time down the road.
Cylinder Head
03-27-13, 11:16
I liked my KAC trigger a lot and ran it through a few classes before Geissele ran a deal on the SD triggers. Now everything must have a flat bow trigger with a "G" on it.
I run G SSA on everything, but my Knights. That Knights trigger is on Par with the SSA. I wouldnt dare trade out that trigger. But to each its own.
The flat based triggers are a beast of their own. I gave them consideration, but I have too many guns and didnt want a totally different feel.
I run G SSA on everything, but my Knights. That Knights trigger is on Par with the SSA. I wouldnt dare trade out that trigger. But to each its own.
The flat based triggers are a beast of their own. I gave them consideration, but I have too many guns and didnt want a totally different feel.
I agree. My KAC trigger actually feels better than an SSA I had. It falls somewhere between an SSA and an SSA-E according to my uncalibrated booger picker.
I think comparing the KAC trigger to the SSA is splitting hairs.
Overall, I like the SSA better because the disconnector is one piece, not two like on the KAC. In the event you ever want to or need to remove the trigger components, reassembling the KAC is a royal bitch if you don't have a slave pin handy. Which, strangely enough is included with the SSA...
For outright trigger feel, the Super Dynamic triggers are it.
dude, shorter gas system on the 16? shorter than what, rifle length? the 16" would have cycling issues with a rifle gas system.
I think comparing the KAC trigger to the SSA is splitting hairs.
Overall, I like the SSA better because the disconnector is one piece, not two like on the KAC. In the event you ever want to or need to remove the trigger components, reassembling the KAC is a royal bitch if you don't have a slave pin handy. Which, strangely enough is included with the SSA...
For outright trigger feel, the Super Dynamic triggers are it.
That was true with the old KAC Triggers. Now they have the drop in trigger. No adjustment needed, unlike the older ones.
I was kinda shocked with this as well. I got my LPR about a month ago and seen this in the lower. The drop in is real nice, but I like the feel of the older triggers. Now once I get this newer one broke in, It may be just as good.
StevieJ309
03-27-13, 15:16
You're making this out to be more difficult than it needs to be. If you want a more accurate rifle for taking set shots then get the LPR. It's already been mentioned that if you can afford to shoot out the stainless barrel then you can afford to replace it.
If you want something a little more agile that's better suited for "running and gunning" then get the 16".
If this was me, with my next rifle being an SBR, I would get the LPR and throw a 2.5-10x on there and call it a day.
That was true with the old KAC Triggers. Now they have the drop in trigger. No adjustment needed, unlike the older ones.
I was kinda shocked with this as well. I got my LPR about a month ago and seen this in the lower. The drop in is real nice, but I like the feel of the older triggers. Now once I get this newer one broke in, It may be just as good.
The one I had in my SR15 had the adjustment screws epoxied in place, but the disconnecter was two separate peices.
The one I had in my SR15 had the adjustment screws epoxied in place, but the disconnecter was two separate peices.
Mine is the old 2 piece disco also. Thank God for those Geissele slave pins! I have one that I keep in my tool box and use it every time I remove or install a trigger.
Just thought I would post a few pic. of the Knights Drop in trigger for you all.
The one that came in my LPR
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy6/HK-Dogg/2013-03-01_21-48-22_771_zpsf9f4c693.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy6/HK-Dogg/sonycam089_zps33e63f96.jpg
The pic. I got from kanek off of ARF
http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab98/SKarms/IMG_2219.jpg
Mine looked closer to the one on the right with the exception of having the two piece disconnector. Big pain to install w/o a slave pin.
Does the one on the left, or the one in your rifle, have one disconnector spring or two?
In regards to the OP, I agree with some of the other posters that you are getting ahead of yourself. Go with the 16". It's the softest recoiling 16 out there, for its weight, IMHO. Before you take out the trigger, you might want to give the KAC 2 stage a bit of time.
I typically prefer the 14.7" barrel length, and was mildly annoyed at Knight's for not selling a pinned version, but I have come to terms with my 16" E3. It has slowly become the one that gets the most work. Especially out of the box; I'm sort of picky, but have only replaced the A2 pistol grip on mine and run it as is. I would definitely vote get the 16 first, then if you decide it really doesn't do what you want, get the 18" later on. Good luck.
Are you just buying an upper or a complete rifle? Buy a complete KAC and you'll be happy with it. I got my LPR about a month ago and it's great. It's an 18" rifle, so it's a bit heavier/longer than a carbine and is not ideal for room clearing, etc., But I don't clear rooms, etc. I mostly sit at a bench and assassinate paper at known distances. I have a PST 2.5-10 en route to assist with my cellulose persecution.
+The KAC 2 stage trigger is very nice. Recoil on the LPR is rather light for an AR. I'm in line for a SFMB-556 for the LPR, but that's because I'm planning ahead for a SOCOM suppressor. I have a Battlecomp 2.0 on my other AR, which I like a lot, and I'd like to compare it to the Surefire Brake. If I like the SF better or it's a toss up, I'll sell the Battlecomp for another SFMB.
You're trying to study the ants on the trees instead of seeing the forest for what it is. I think you answered your question in the first paragraph of your post; An SBR is next. So buy an LPR and then later buy a KAC SR15 SBR:D. You don't need a 18" and a 16" AR, their capabilities overlap significantly.
16" Mod1 would be my choice as well - I do have 16" Recce (similar barrel to their SPR) with the 3.1 handguard from HighCaliberSales - phenomenal upper, but unless you specifically want that thicker barrel profile, the standard Diemaco barrel on the Mod1 is a really stout shooter with good ammo.
As for the complete rifle - buying an SR-15 in halves is nowhere near the performance bargain - I took the SR15 upper, and gave my wife the lower half - she loves it, and I get the E3 upper I want.
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