View Full Version : ATF raids FPSRussia's home....
http://gunssavelives.net/blog/40-atf-agents-raid-home-of-youtube-gun-personality-fpsrussia/#
GeorgiaBoy
03-28-13, 18:57
They were there looking for "explosives", not firearms, apparently.
Yeahhhhh righttttt..... :rolleyes:
I have little doubt this is tied to the murder investigation.
You mean they couldn't find anything more retarded to waste tax payer money on? Ridiculous.
40 agents!
So if you have a warrant for explosives are you allowed to photograph anything you want? Can you take other evidence such as DNA or whatever they night want? I would expect his property is under electronic surveillance now as well
If they needed 40 agents doesn't that kinda suggest maybe 35 of them don't know what they are doing and probably should be in training? Or, they are up to something else.
This country is going downhill fast. Never thought I would see this in the USA. I mean if he killed his partner then I hope he get's caught but this just looks really wrong.
Mauser KAR98K
03-28-13, 21:38
40 agents!
So if you have a warrant for explosives are you allowed to photograph anything you want? Can you take other evidence such as DNA or whatever they night want? I would expect his property is under electronic surveillance now as well
If they needed 40 agents doesn't that kinda suggest maybe 35 of them don't know what they are doing and probably should be in training? Or, they are up to something else.
This country is going downhill fast. Never thought I would see this in the USA. I mean if he killed his partner then I hope he get's caught but this just looks really wrong.
This is becoming common practice. Happened to Gibson Guitars. There was a documentary posted here about this, and the employees of the company spotlighted were denied their attorneys and their rights through intimidation.
I can understand high risk warrants, and maybe (with a grain of salt)FPSRussian might (with a grain of salt) needed that done to them.
Also to point out, all the people they need to box, tag and load seized documentations.
Warrants are seldom limited to just one item when searching a structure. They'll be looking for documentation, receipts, email/communications just to name a few.
And yes they can photograph everything they can see.
The. Number of agents is not surprising. You'll have the primary investigators. Trained evidence collection types (with specialties within that group). And you'll need other eyes to do A secondary search. Size of the property and scope of the evidence sought also figures in.
Sounds like a fishing expedition to me. A way of sending a chilling message to gun enthusiasts. Hopefully we'll see some more information, but this kinda seems like a politically motivated thing to me.
The items to be seized attachment to a search warrant is never sealed. I doubt that they received sealing of the affidavit, also attached to the warrant, all of which was left at the premises at the completion of the search. Those at the premises could easily post it on the web should they desire, as it states exactly, and in extreme detail what the ATF was looking for.
As for the question about photos, pre and post search condition of the premises are routinely photographed and sometimes videotaped, and they can pretty much document the search through photography in as much detail (as many photos) as those conducting the search want to. Remember, when a search warrant is executed the "subject premises" are seized. They no longer belong to the owner/occupant and are under the control of those executing the warrant. If it's your house and you want to leave during the search, go ahead, you won't be let in. Your lawyer won't be let in (he/she has NO legal standing), you will not be permitted to wander about if you stay, and will be confined to a room, or area as not to interfere until the search is completed and you are provided an inventory.
Sounds like a fishing expedition to me. A way of sending a chilling message to gun enthusiasts. Hopefully we'll see some more information, but this kinda seems like a politically motivated thing to me.
Really? Let's see, a couple of guys like playing with guns and explosives and recording their escapades on YouTube. Then, one of the guys was found murdered in his office 2 months ago. I can't imagine why the authorities would be involved. :confused:
Really? Let's see, a couple of guys like playing with guns and explosives and recording their escapades on YouTube. Then, one of the guys was found murdered in his office 2 months ago. I can't imagine why the authorities would be involved. :confused:
Well, point taken. I don't have any information that's not in this thread. My feeling is based on the notion that FPS has likely been responsible for a LOT of the "Call of Duty" crowd's first actual firearm purchases. He's a modern icon with one of the world's most popular YT channels. His schtick is making guns seem cool to younger people, and it's apparently working. There's no doubt that a lot of kids are emulating what they see in his videos, and are buying their first gun because of them too. There's a few valid reasons that they would want to make an example of him.
That said, I don't disagree completely with what you wrote. I'm just stating a thought that occurred to me, since this is the GD forum and I had a few minutes. I'm no LEO, and I haven't even seen all the guy's videos. Nor have I researched the details of his colleagues demise. It will be interesting to see what becomes of the case.
I've never seen an instance where ATF has gotten this far up someone's ass when they didn't have it coming.
2 examples where people were all up in arms and completely WRONG in the end...
1. That retard in Wisconsin who put an A2 FCD in his piece of shit OLY and got nailed... and
2. The Cavarms raid.
Everyone was all up in arms about how ATF was picking on Cavarms. Fools even donated money to their defense fund. They were in the wrong, and fortunately the principal avoided any prison time.
I'm still wanting to know what this 'evidence' was that they used to secure a search warrant. People wonder why the approval rating of LE by the general public continues to fall and then something like this happens. Again.
Yeah... I read another article on this raid and it sounds like they just raided the property because this guy used tannerite in videos.... :confused:
No sure what the murder side of this is, but it doesn't appear to be related.
Voodoochild
03-29-13, 13:31
Yeah... I read another article on this raid and it sounds like they just raided the property because this guy used tannerite in videos.... :confused:
No sure what the murder side of this is, but it doesn't appear to be related.
It's because of his supposed overuse (too much at once) of tannerite.
Littlelebowski
03-29-13, 13:33
It's because of his supposed overuse (too much at once) of tannerite.
I feel safer already.
I've never seen an instance where ATF has gotten this far up someone's ass when they didn't have it coming.
2 examples where people were all up in arms and completely WRONG in the end...
1. That retard in Wisconsin who put an A2 FCD in his piece of shit OLY and got nailed... and
2. The Cavarms raid.
Everyone was all up in arms about how ATF was picking on Cavarms. Fools even donated money to their defense fund. They were in the wrong, and fortunately the principal avoided any prison time.
Randy Weaver comes to mind.
Littlelebowski
03-29-13, 13:34
Randy Weaver comes to mind.
Oh, SNAP! (good one)
Randy Weaver comes to mind.
That's true.
"No arrests were made, nor did Coes know if any explosives were seized.
“The idea at one of the locations was to take firearms, but they did not do that,” Coes said." (http://onlineathens.com/local-news/2013-03-27/atf-agents-lead-search-explosives-carnesville-home)
:angry:
I've never seen an instance where ATF has gotten this far up someone's ass when they didn't have it coming.
2 examples where people were all up in arms and completely WRONG in the end...
1. That retard in Wisconsin who put an A2 FCD in his piece of shit OLY and got nailed... and
2. The Cavarms raid.
Everyone was all up in arms about how ATF was picking on Cavarms. Fools even donated money to their defense fund. They were in the wrong, and fortunately the principal avoided any prison time.
Your sense of "had it coming" is so far off course it couldn't find land in a lake. The CavArms guys were found guilty of NOTHING, the worst thing that millions in tax dollars wasted could find is they sold an AR to a guy from California that actually had a drivers license in AZ. Hense no prosecution. No one "has it coming" for breaking an unconstitutional law where no-one is harmed.
I gave money to their fund, and am proud of it. I still wear my CavArms shirts every opportunity I get and call attention to the waste and statism that is most federal LEO.
Your sense of "had it coming" is so far off course it couldn't find land in a lake. The CavArms guys were found guilty of NOTHING, the worst thing that millions in tax dollars wasted could find is they sold an AR to a guy from California that actually had a drivers license in AZ. Hense no prosecution. No one "has it coming" for breaking an unconstitutional law where no-one is harmed.
I gave money to their fund, and am proud of it. I still wear my CavArms shirts every opportunity I get and call attention to the waste and statism that is most federal LEO.
Did you read the foreiture report? It was pretty damning. At first I thought a specific former associate who is a notorious scumbag and suspected ATF informant was to blame for feeding the agency false info. But when the case was unsealed and the report made public, there were some guys on ARFtard not so happy about donating to the cause.
The principal is a convicted felon and can no longer have firearms. They ****ed up. Agree with the laws or not... they broke them.
Maybe they weren't guilty of EVERY charge in the very long list, but there's no denying that he sold guns to an out of state (CA) resident.
And the timeline of how ATF gave them time to correct the compliance errors seemed quite generous to me. I just don't see how one could read the report and feel that Cavarms was free of guilt.
Moose-Knuckle
03-29-13, 15:26
Randy Weaver comes to mind.
And the Branch Davidians . . .
And the Branch Davidians . . .
Them too. SHIT! I'm getting in my bunker after I bury my guns! :eek:
I would like to see a copy of the warrants and the list of evidence ATF was trying to find at both FPSRussia's house and his father's house. A copy of each warrant would have been left at both houses along with a list of evidence seized when the warrants were executed. If FPSRussia was in the right, he should be more than willing to post the documents on the internet for everyone to read.
And the Branch Davidians . . .
BINGO
xjustintimex
03-29-13, 17:01
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU&list=SPFBFCDCC3DBB96BC4&index=3 he... blew it up -sniff-
Did you read the foreiture report? It was pretty damning. At first I thought a specific former associate who is a notorious scumbag and suspected ATF informant was to blame for feeding the agency false info. But when the case was unsealed and the report made public, there were some guys on ARFtard not so happy about donating to the cause.
The principal is a convicted felon and can no longer have firearms. They ****ed up. Agree with the laws or not... they broke them.
Maybe they weren't guilty of EVERY charge in the very long list, but there's no denying that he sold guns to an out of state (CA) resident.
And the timeline of how ATF gave them time to correct the compliance errors seemed quite generous to me. I just don't see how one could read the report and feel that Cavarms was free of guilt.
Yeah, they "had it coming."
I guess some people are just more prone to root for the government. Real effective use of resources; spending millions to crawl up the ass of a business rather than actually investigating things like straw purchase that end up with gangsters in places like Chicago. Almost as if they had an agenda or something.
40 agents!
So if you have a warrant for explosives are you allowed to photograph anything you want? Can you take other evidence such as DNA or whatever they night want? I would expect his property is under electronic surveillance now as well
If they needed 40 agents doesn't that kinda suggest maybe 35 of them don't know what they are doing and probably should be in training? Or, they are up to something else.
This country is going downhill fast. Never thought I would see this in the USA. I mean if he killed his partner then I hope he get's caught but this just looks really wrong.
That might have been the training drill for them!
Five_Point_Five_Six
03-29-13, 19:26
I wonder if the ATF knew he's not actually Russian?
I'm still wanting to know what this 'evidence' was that they used to secure a search warrant. People wonder why the approval rating of LE by the general public continues to fall and then something like this happens. Again.
You don't use evidence to obtain a search warrant. A search warrant is to obtain or seize evidence.
Moose-Knuckle
03-29-13, 20:42
You don't use evidence to obtain a search warrant. A search warrant is to obtain or seize evidence.
Correct, I believe Jer is getting confused with probable cause.
GeorgiaBoy
03-29-13, 20:47
I would think his countless videos of him firing NFA firearms and using explosives, coupled with the recent murder of his manager, could perhaps be connected with some "probable cause".
You don't use evidence to obtain a search warrant. A search warrant is to obtain or seize evidence.
I meant PC. Tab surfing is owning me today.
I meant PC. Tab surfing is owning me today.
It is Friday, pour one and relax.
It is Friday, pour one and relax.
Sir, yes sir. :cool:
I wonder if the ATF knew he's not actually Russian?
Well that would explain one of the 40 ... a translator... ;)
Jeeze... yeah I think I'll give them credit for knowing he wasn't really Russian.
I would think his countless videos of him firing NFA firearms and using explosives, coupled with the recent murder of his manager, could perhaps be connected with some "probable cause".
When did investigating murder become the prevue of the ATF?
When did investigating murder become the prevue of the ATF?
They don't directly but they do regularly assist in homicide investigations, as do many other federal agencies. Knowledge of other crimes and the parallel investigations involved can go a long way in adding to probable cause for a search warrant.
Evil Colt 6920
03-29-13, 23:10
Anyone else think that warrant was just so 40 feds, who also happen to be fans of FPS Russia, could show up for pics and autographs? :p
Belmont31R
03-30-13, 16:38
Did you read the foreiture report? It was pretty damning. At first I thought a specific former associate who is a notorious scumbag and suspected ATF informant was to blame for feeding the agency false info. But when the case was unsealed and the report made public, there were some guys on ARFtard not so happy about donating to the cause.
The principal is a convicted felon and can no longer have firearms. They ****ed up. Agree with the laws or not... they broke them.
Maybe they weren't guilty of EVERY charge in the very long list, but there's no denying that he sold guns to an out of state (CA) resident.
And the timeline of how ATF gave them time to correct the compliance errors seemed quite generous to me. I just don't see how one could read the report and feel that Cavarms was free of guilt.
Who cares? Shouldn't have been charged in the first place. You can ask two ATF agents the same law question and get two different answers.
Yeah they had it coming...from a dumbass Federal agency that has admitted the NFA registry is FUBAR and sends guns into Mexico. As far as I'm concerned they have ZERO moral authority to enforce one single law.
They did similar shit with my dealer, and the ATF records were so ****ed up they told him he should have had over 30 more NFA items in his store than he had, and he had to show them the transfer forms they approved. Then they came back and said he was missing 5 more. It took months and months to get sorted out, and they were complete dicks the entire time. They also went through all his 4473's and were taking forms out to go hassle people who bought semi auto pistols and rifles. **** them. I don't care if theres 'good guys' who work there...that agency is not the place for 'good guys' because their entire agency mission is based on violating the Constitution in the first place. If I hung out with shitheads, and I just tag a long while they go rob a store or kill people...guess what? I can be charged too even though I didn't rob or kill anyone.
I don't even think the rest of the Federal government likes them.
I'll be the first to admit that the BATFE is FUBAR. But, there is more to the Cav Arms story. IIRC they were also selling prohibited firearms to California residents. The law sucks, but if you are an FFL you have to play by the rules.
The bigger issue here is why hasn't Congress done anything about the abuses that have been perpetrated by the BATFE.
Who cares? Shouldn't have been charged in the first place. You can ask two ATF agents the same law question and get two different answers.
Yeah they had it coming...from a dumbass Federal agency that has admitted the NFA registry is FUBAR and sends guns into Mexico. As far as I'm concerned they have ZERO moral authority to enforce one single law.
They did similar shit with my dealer, and the ATF records were so ****ed up they told him he should have had over 30 more NFA items in his store than he had, and he had to show them the transfer forms they approved. Then they came back and said he was missing 5 more. It took months and months to get sorted out, and they were complete dicks the entire time. They also went through all his 4473's and were taking forms out to go hassle people who bought semi auto pistols and rifles. **** them. I don't care if theres 'good guys' who work there...that agency is not the place for 'good guys' because their entire agency mission is based on violating the Constitution in the first place. If I hung out with shitheads, and I just tag a long while they go rob a store or kill people...guess what? I can be charged too even though I didn't rob or kill anyone.
I don't even think the rest of the Federal government likes them.
Well considering NFA weapons and Tannerite are legal, I don't see how that equates to probable cause at all.
I would think his countless videos of him firing NFA firearms and using explosives, coupled with the recent murder of his manager, could perhaps be connected with some "probable cause".
GeorgiaBoy
03-30-13, 20:56
Well considering NFA weapons and Tannerite are legal, I don't see how that equates to probable cause at all.
I still think it is connected to the murder investigation in a way. I'm sure not everything they know is being revealed, and that if there is actually a connection.
The ATF could have known something we don't know about Meyer's buying, how he procures weapons, etc.
Further, tannerite is illegal to store or mix and travel... they might have had information on him storing or transporting tannerite or something.
Belmont31R
03-30-13, 21:07
I'll be the first to admit that the BATFE is FUBAR. But, there is more to the Cav Arms story. IIRC they were also selling prohibited firearms to California residents. The law sucks, but if you are an FFL you have to play by the rules.
The bigger issue here is why hasn't Congress done anything about the abuses that have been perpetrated by the BATFE.
The guy had a AZ DL....
Frankly I don't believe anything they claim.
Remember the big Hutaree Militia raids across 3 states? They claimed all sorts of things about them, too, the most they got was 2 guys for BS 'weapons charges' out of all the people they arrested, all the seized property, claims they were going to kill LEO's and a whole host of other terrible allegations.
They have a habit of going after targets that catch a lot of eyes, and then little comes from it unless they decide to Waco them. They also have a habit of lying, and claiming things like drugs at Waco which allows for the use of military assets to get around Posse Comitatus.
It doesn't really matter if what they claim is true or not because even if you get aquited they will bankrupt you, run your name through the mud with lies, and if they really want to just make shit up and set fire to your house while you're still inside it.
They are always looking for a group or individual which will 'justify' their existence because hassling FFL's and stealing their records doesn't get the big headlines they like.
I have respect for the Marshals and most of the FBI. CBP does alright by me besides the internal checkpoints....I can't think of a single redeeming quality the ATF possesses.
The guy had a AZ DL....
Frankly I don't believe anything they claim.
Remember the big Hutaree Militia raids across 3 states? They claimed all sorts of things about them, too, the most they got was 2 guys for BS 'weapons charges' out of all the people they arrested, all the seized property, claims they were going to kill LEO's and a whole host of other terrible allegations.
They have a habit of going after targets that catch a lot of eyes, and then little comes from it unless they decide to Waco them. They also have a habit of lying, and claiming things like drugs at Waco which allows for the use of military assets to get around Posse Comitatus.
It doesn't really matter if what they claim is true or not because even if you get aquited they will bankrupt you, run your name through the mud with lies, and if they really want to just make shit up and set fire to your house while you're still inside it.
They are always looking for a group or individual which will 'justify' their existence because hassling FFL's and stealing their records doesn't get the big headlines they like.
I have respect for the Marshals and most of the FBI. CBP does alright by me besides the internal checkpoints....I can't think of a single redeeming quality the ATF possesses.
100% agree except the part in red. Nothing really "came" from Waco... everybody involved still had a job right? No change in policy, their perceived role?
Belmont31R
03-30-13, 22:04
100% agree except the part in red. Nothing really "came" from Waco... everybody involved still had a job right? No change in policy, their perceived role?
Nothing will ever come from any of their 'operations'. The people involved with F&F were promoted...Lon was still around after RR to be behind another gun at Waco.
But I really meant rarely do their accusations every result in any significant 'crime bust' like someone plotting and actually carrying out something big. And I don't mean like what they are doing now with Islamists and pushing them along from start to finish where the subject ever had the means to do anything. Reminds me of the old joke about half the people at a KKK meeting being Feds.
They like these high profile cases that gets everyone attention...but as far as real crime prevention and stopping anything major they have done jack squat. Their only purpose is to hassle FFL's, gun owners, and get the occasional technicality charge after a big show of seizing peoples propety, running their name through the mud, and wasting millions of tax dollars.
I agree to a point. Trust me, I know the BATFE is a soup sandwich without a doubt. But, not all of them are jacked up.
The guy had a AZ DL....
Frankly I don't believe anything they claim.
Remember the big Hutaree Militia raids across 3 states? They claimed all sorts of things about them, too, the most they got was 2 guys for BS 'weapons charges' out of all the people they arrested, all the seized property, claims they were going to kill LEO's and a whole host of other terrible allegations.
They have a habit of going after targets that catch a lot of eyes, and then little comes from it unless they decide to Waco them. They also have a habit of lying, and claiming things like drugs at Waco which allows for the use of military assets to get around Posse Comitatus.
It doesn't really matter if what they claim is true or not because even if you get aquited they will bankrupt you, run your name through the mud with lies, and if they really want to just make shit up and set fire to your house while you're still inside it.
They are always looking for a group or individual which will 'justify' their existence because hassling FFL's and stealing their records doesn't get the big headlines they like.
I have respect for the Marshals and most of the FBI. CBP does alright by me besides the internal checkpoints....I can't think of a single redeeming quality the ATF possesses.
Sorry, not buying the argument. I do agree that I think it was related to the murder and then they went on a major fishing expedition.
Tannerite is not illegal to store or transport as long as the components are not combined. And there would be no reason to do so when one can simply put it together on site.
How does one procure weapons? That sounds like a silly soundbite the politicos use. You simply buy them or order them. Obviously they didn't find anything of substance.
I still think it is connected to the murder investigation in a way. I'm sure not everything they know is being revealed, and that if there is actually a connection.
The ATF could have known something we don't know about Meyer's buying, how he procures weapons, etc.
Further, tannerite is illegal to store or mix and travel... they might have had information on him storing or transporting tannerite or something.
Belmont31R
03-30-13, 22:45
Sorry, not buying the argument. I do agree that I think it was related to the murder and then they went on a major fishing expedition.
Tannerite is not illegal to store or transport as long as the components are not combined. And there would be no reason to do so when one can simply put it together on site.
How does one procure weapons? That sounds like a silly soundbite the politicos use. You simply buy them or order them. Obviously they didn't find anything of substance.
Cabelas started selling it a few years ago. Just a plastic container with the other ingredient shrink wrapped to the outside. A whole shelf with the stuff with ZERO purchase restrictions.
That was my point. However, one has to dig a little deeper. AFAIK the BATFE allows the sale because it doesn't meet the legal definition of an explosive since it is a binary compound. Once they are combined it changes the game and must be transported and stored as any other explosive.
This is what I found on the Tannerite website and it looks like the straw they were grasping at;
When combining Tannerite®, you are not required to have a license UNLESS you choose to mix the compounds COMMERCIALLY. A situation that would require a license would be if a shooting range were to mix and sell the targets for any form of reimbursement, but an individual MAY mix and shoot Tannerite® for any NON-commercial sporting purpose.
However, the mixture is an explosive once mixed, and cannot be transported without following strict regulations including insurance, packaging, and signage on the vehicle. Various regulations also govern the storage of mixed Tannerite.
Cabelas started selling it a few years ago. Just a plastic container with the other ingredient shrink wrapped to the outside. A whole shelf with the stuff with ZERO purchase restrictions.
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