View Full Version : Question about brand new complete lowers.
I asked this on another very popular forum but got no response. Maybe I asked it in the wrong section, I don't know. I just know that it got over 100 views with no response. Maybe I will get a response here.
I was told at my LGS that when purchasing lowers only, they are categorized as pistols and then fall under the 72 hour wait here in Illinois. I am specifically referring to fully built complete Rock River Arms lowers. Is that standard to classify them as pistols even though they come with a stock on them? I was under the impression that stripped brand new lowers could be classified as either a pistol or rifle. But if it is already built as a rifle lower, I would have thought that it would be classified as a rifle to begin with. I thought that if it starts life as a rifle, it cannnot be converted to a pistol without the necessary ATF tax stamp and such. But if it is built as a pistol, then it can be switched back and forth without any legal hassle???? I actually have no intentions of doing a pistol, I am just curious...
I don't know what goes on in IL but if it's a rifle, it has to have a barrel of 16+".
If it's a pistol it better not have a stock or a VFG.
There's no swapping back and forth between either.
I wasn't aware of that when I purchased my stripped lower that I was intending to build. When they processed it the background check didn't go through because it could have been made into the ar pistol and I'm only twenty. The background check would not go through until the ar was complete with an upper attached.
However, I don't really know the answers to your other question but i'm sure somebody will chime in with some knowledge.
Ben.
Lowers fall under the category "other" according to the ATF. Complete lower or stripped. Why? Because they can be built in to a rifle or pistol, but at that point they are neither. Since you have to be 21 to purchase a pistol and you can make a pistol out of the lower that is probably where you get the "pistol" classification from. Also, you don't need a tax stamp or anything to built an AR pistol, only for an SBR.
From everything I've read, an AR pistol CAN have an AFG just not a VFG.
Also, if you register it as a pistol, it can me made into a rifle and then back to a pistol. But if its registered as a rifle it's ALWAYS ONLY a rifle.
If your lower can in with a stock in it they should have registered it as a rifle. I just got to stripped lowers in yesterday and registered them as pistols.
Misinformation is all over the place about ar lowers. This much I can tell you for sure.
I live in Illinois.
A few years ago I bought a complete ar lower at my local gun shop.
I picked it up the next day.
Well the responses here have helped out. I could understand a stripped lower being given the option but this is a fully decked out lower with Rifle stock, buffer tube and lower parts kit installed. I would have thought that there would be no option on this and that is why the response from the LGS kind of surprised me. Since ryr8828 bought the exact thing a couple years ago, I wonder if maybe there has been some kind of reclassification here in Illinois since then. Yes, rifle in Illinois has to have a barrel length of 16" or IIRC, 14.5" with a pinned flash hider. But now I have another question. I have read elsewhere and also in the responses about a lower being "registered". Where or with who is this registration done? Illinois does not require any registration, only some local places like Chicago require it. If I was to buy this lower, what would I have to do if I decided to make it a pistol build? Obviously the stock would have to be removed but anything else?
You don't have to register a rifle or pistol so I'm not sure what they're talking about. All you need to do to make it a pistol is put in a pistol buffer tube that keeps you from mounting a stock. Then you can throw whatever length barrel you want on. You just CAN'T have a stock or a buffer tube that allows the attachment of one. Then it would be a short barreled rifle SBR that would need to be registered because it would be an NFA item.
polymorpheous
03-29-13, 16:31
Once the lower is built into a rifle, it can not be changed to a pistol.
A lower is classified by the ATF as "other" not as a pistol.
Your LGS is full of it. We got one in Delavan, WI that pulls the same shit.
Once the lower is built into a rifle, it can not be changed to a pistol.
A lower is classified by the ATF as "other" not as a pistol.
Your LGS is full of it. We got one in Delavan, WI that pulls the same shit.
Why can't it be made a pistol after a rifle? I can't change my mind and make a pistol out of my lower if I want? How would anyone ever know the lower was built to a rifle in the first place?
polymorpheous
03-29-13, 16:36
Well, posting a question like that on an open forum certainly won't draw any attention to you.
I'll do you a favor by not quoting your post.
The law says you can't. But, you are correct. No one will know unless you snitch yourself out and post pics of it all over the net.
Why can't it be made a pistol after a rifle? I can't change my mind and make a pistol out of my lower if I want? How would anyone ever know the lower was built to a rifle in the first place?
polymorpheous
03-29-13, 16:38
^^^
Ahem...
I don't believe that is the standard either. You can't have a stock mounted. So unless you are part of the constructive intent/ possession crowd it's a non-issue.
You don't have to register a rifle or pistol so I'm not sure what they're talking about. All you need to do to make it a pistol is put in a pistol buffer tube that keeps you from mounting a stock. Then you can throw whatever length barrel you want on. You just CAN'T have a stock or a buffer tube that allows the attachment of one. Then it would be a short barreled rifle SBR that would need to be registered because it would be an NFA item.
Well, posting a question like that on an open forum certainly won't draw any attention to you.
I'll do you a favor by not quoting your post.
It was hypothetical, because I was confused.
Just ask the LGS to show you the law or what he is citing in writing. You can do some of your own research here (where people have posted the BATFE rulings) which clarify this.
Well the responses here have helped out. I could understand a stripped lower being given the option but this is a fully decked out lower with Rifle stock, buffer tube and lower parts kit installed. I would have thought that there would be no option on this and that is why the response from the LGS kind of surprised me. Since ryr8828 bought the exact thing a couple years ago, I wonder if maybe there has been some kind of reclassification here in Illinois since then. Yes, rifle in Illinois has to have a barrel length of 16" or IIRC, 14.5" with a pinned flash hider. But now I have another question. I have read elsewhere and also in the responses about a lower being "registered". Where or with who is this registration done? Illinois does not require any registration, only some local places like Chicago require it. If I was to buy this lower, what would I have to do if I decided to make it a pistol build? Obviously the stock would have to be removed but anything else?
I don't know what goes on in IL but if it's a rifle, it has to have a barrel of 16+".
If it's a pistol it better not have a stock or a VFG.
There's no swapping back and forth between either.
Not true. While it's illegal to convert a rifle into a pistol, a pistol with a barrel length of 16" or more may mount a buttstock. As it's a pistol, it does not have to meet the minimum overall length of a rifle
Once the lower is built into a rifle, it can not be changed to a pistol.
A lower is classified by the ATF as "other" not as a pistol.
Your LGS is full of it. We got one in Delavan, WI that pulls the same shit.
My one lower was transferred as OTHER, then assembled into a pistol. My next lower was transferred as PISTOL (in PA) by the same LGS, then assembled into a rifle. When I enquired to the discrepancy, the LGS made a mistake about the other lower. LGS stated that I was committing a felony for 'building' a pistol, and not having the lower registered as such. There is NO registration in PA. Fortunately there are other FFLs local.
TheAxeShooter
03-30-13, 11:42
I'm from Illinois also. I had to buy a complete lower back in september instead of a stripped lower because I was told technically it can be turned into a pistol. I was also under 21 so they couldnt sell me a pistol. Now that lower was registered as a rifle.
I'm from Illinois also. I had to buy a complete lower back in september instead of a stripped lower because I was told technically it can be turned into a pistol. I was also under 21 so they couldnt sell me a pistol. Now that lower was registered as a rifle.
Under 21, this is the only way the FFL could transfer the lower to you. The PISTOL and OTHER designations on the 4473 require the transferee be of 21 years in age.
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