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FromMyColdDeadHand
03-29-13, 12:07
I thought I've seen it mentioned here that foreign nationals (like NATO personnel) born in the US don't have US citizenship? Is that true? How is it squared against the 14th Amendment? Is there a treaty that excludes these births from receiving citizenship?

If that is true, is that part of the solution to immigration? As part of comprehensive immigration reform, since the border cannot ever really be sealed, and a major driver for illegals is to get an anchor baby- make it so that if a country wants to have their citizens here illegally to be considered for some kind of fast track status, they have to sign a treaty with us that their citizens aren't eligible for citizenship on birth.

Seems like that would remove a large incentive for coming over the border illegally.

Don't sign the treaty and we'll focus on sending your citizens back.
TAZ
03-29-13, 14:05
Seems like we already have a number of ways to control the whole Anchor baby crap.

1) grant the baby citizenship and tell the mommy to go the **** home with or without the baby. If she leaves it adopt it out. If she takes it when the baby turns 18 they get to come back.

2) We have laws on the books relating to ill gotten gains. Buy your mom a home with dope money and she'll loose that thing if your ass get caught. Why can't we apply that to citizenship. Come here legally and drop your baby it gets citizenship. Hop the border and you get shit.
Hmac
03-29-13, 15:21
Anyone born on US soil, including possessions, is a US citizen. The only exception AFAIK is children born to enemy combatants and children of foreign diplomats. And even the latter is widely ignored.
kmrtnsn
03-29-13, 20:42
Read up on the term, jus soli. The key term in the Fourtheen Amendment as far as foreign birth in the U.S. is the term, subject to the laws of the United States. Foreign diplomats, foreign military members, such as visiting crew members, or service members here on assignment or for training are not considered subject to, therefore, their children are considered natuaral born to their parent's country of citizenship. Illegal aliens and foreign residents, however, have been found by muliple SCOTUS rulings to be subject to, and therefore their offspring are citizens. The controlling SCOTUS case is US v. Wong Kim Ark. Overturn Ark and you'll have something. I have posted Ark here before. Either find it here and re-read it, or Google for it.
Hmac
03-29-13, 22:18
"Subject to" is the crux. Foreign diplomats have diplomatic immunity, therefore not "subject to", therefore their children aren't granted citizenship under the 14th amendment. Supposedly. I guess I don't know about foreign military members in the US on assignment. Do SOFA or VFA agreements vary by country? What happens if, say, a British soldier commits a crime in the US? He gets tried by the UK military?

Relative to children born to foreign diplomats, interesting articles on how that is at least occasionally circumvented:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/11/children-foreign-diplomats-enjoying-us-super-citizen-status-says-report/

http://www.cis.org/birthright-citizenship-diplomats
kmrtnsn
03-29-13, 22:35
"Subject to" is the crux. Foreign diplomats have diplomatic immunity, therefore not "subject to", therefore their children aren't granted citizenship under the 14th amendment. Supposedly. I guess I don't know about foreign military members in the US on assignment. Do SOFA or VFA agreements vary by country? What happens if, say, a British soldier commits a crime in the US? He gets tried by the UK military?

Relative to children born to foreign diplomats, interesting articles on how that is at least occasionally circumvented:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/11/children-foreign-diplomats-enjoying-us-super-citizen-status-says-report/

http://www.cis.org/birthright-citizenship-diplomats

SOFA, or status of forces agreements vary by country. Generally, foreign military servicemembers do not have diplomatic immunity. How a crime is handled is usually a local matter. If it occurs on a U.S. installation, then it would most likely be handled between the U.S. service installation and the foreign military. If the crime occurred in the local ville, then the foreign servicemember would be charged and prosecuted locally. There are so few here the numbers are statistically insignificant. Think Marines prosecuted in Okinawa, one or two every few years.
Honu
03-30-13, 13:27
Have heard some constitutional lawyers mention anyone here ilegal their baby is not a citizen ?
Folks who are here legally :)
Hmac
03-30-13, 14:12
Have heard some constitutional lawyers mention anyone here ilegal their baby is not a citizen ?


Children born in the US to illegal immigrants are US citizens.
Honu
03-30-13, 15:10
Children born in the US to illegal immigrants are US citizens.

some lawyers have argued that its not really that way the way its worded !
kinda like the 2nd is only for hunting and stuff the fathers never wanted us to have miltary weapons ! that some argue

its just people did not argue the illegals having children here fact so that is the way it is now and really should not be this way

again these were lawyers opinions not mine but I do agree its BS they should become citizens
Hmac
03-30-13, 16:52
some lawyers have argued that its not really that way the way its worded !
kinda like the 2nd is only for hunting and stuff the fathers never wanted us to have miltary weapons ! that some argue

its just people did not argue the illegals having children here fact so that is the way it is now and really should not be this way

again these were lawyers opinions not mine but I do agree its BS they should become citizens

There are always "some lawyers" arguing both sides of any given point. That's their job, and the way our legal system works.

Anyway, the Supreme Court has already established that it's the law of the land. Those lawyers will have quite a struggle with their argument.
Belmont31R
03-30-13, 17:05
The best are 'accidental citizens'. There was a guy in Germany who never stepped foot on our soil, didn't know he had dual citizenship, and the IRS went after him for years of back taxes. Guy was German for all he knew, and they were trying to get him to pay US taxes...:rolleyes:


Just google "IRS back taxes accidental citizen". Ton of results.


I do think we need an amendment to end the born here automatically a US citizen BS. The 14th Amendment was to give slaves citizenship so the states couldn't **** with them. That was well over 100 years ago, and now we have dozens of 'birth vacation' companies who put up legal visitors who come here simply to give birth, and then the illegals and anchor babies. Its absurd.
Hmac
03-30-13, 17:12
I do think we need an amendment to end the born here automatically a US citizen BS. The 14th Amendment was to give slaves citizenship so the states couldn't **** with them. That was well over 100 years ago, and now we have dozens of 'birth vacation' companies who put up legal visitors who come here simply to give birth, and then the illegals and anchor babies. Its absurd.

So...the 14th Amendment doesn't work in today's culture? We should repeal it to bring the Constitution more into line with the needs of today's society?
Belmont31R
03-30-13, 17:20
So...the 14th Amendment doesn't work in today's culture? We should repeal it to bring the Constitution more into line with the needs of today's society?



Thats why we have an amendment process, and yes I know where you're going with it. Not every amendment is an attack on gun rights. But our Founder's were smart enough to make it a difficult process so things didn't get changed a whim. The BOR itself are changes to the Constitution...;)