? about old Powder and Primers

[steyrman13]

Fairly new to reloading here. I found some older powders and primers that has been stored in a basement in a wooden box. It had no Moisture control or seal on the wooden box. The powder did have the lids on tight. the primers were stored in the factory trays but no shrink wrap or anything.
I smelled the powders as recommended and it had no different smell from my new powers. There isn't any yellow color or clumps in any of it. Also poured a small quarter size pile on the ground and lit it and it burned fine. Is there anything else I can test or check before loading some rounds and testing groups or Chrono? It is Hodgdon H335 and IMR4895.

Is there any way to test primers to see if they are any good? What would be the best way, just load them like normal and chrono the rounds? They are mostly CCI and Winchester

[jstone]

The powder and primers should be fine. The powder if its bad it can have red dust. I have never heard of yellow. If it smells good it is probably good.

Primers are hard to kill. I have read some articles where the author was trying to kill the primers. In one of the articles they poured some water over primers (just enough to make sure they were wet) once they dried out they were fine. It seemed like the only thing that killed the primers Was penetrating oil.

Some people say the oil naturally occurring on your fingers will kill primers. If it does you have to be one oily person. I always wear nitril gloves when loading, but I have tried handling primers bear handed. I could not get them to go bad. I think that is one of the old school things that continues to be passed down that is not true. That is just my opinion. I have never heard one case of it happening.

If you want to test the primers seat them in a empty case. Then drop them in the chamber and fire them. Try 5-10 if they go off they should be fine.

Edit: if the win primers are small rifle check the color. If they are nickel plated they have thicker cups . If they are the plain brass with no plating they can flatten or Pierce with lighter loads, because the cups are thinner. They are not as bad as rem 6.5's there just a little thin. Rem 6.5's should not even be used in high pressure cartridges like 223.

[steyrman13]

Thanks J-Stone. I was looking at some reloading forums and saw something about yellow color in the bottle. Also saw that about the red dust almost like rust. I think I will do as you suggested and load the empty cartridges and fire to check them. Thanks for the advice.
I had also read about Win primers having light cups and detonating from light strikes from semi-auto bolts slamming forward. Thanks for clearing that up with the way to check on the difference in Win primers!
I'll report back once I have a chance to load a few and go to the range for testing.

[hjmpanzr]

Fairly new to reloading here. I found some older powders and primers that has been stored in a basement in a wooden box. It had no Moisture control or seal on the wooden box. The powder did have the lids on tight. the primers were stored in the factory trays but no shrink wrap or anything.
I smelled the powders as recommended and it had no different smell from my new powers. There isn't any yellow color or clumps in any of it. Also poured a small quarter size pile on the ground and lit it and it burned fine. Is there anything else I can test or check before loading some rounds and testing groups or Chrono? It is Hodgdon H335 and IMR4895.

Is there any way to test primers to see if they are any good? What would be the best way, just load them like normal and chrono the rounds? They are mostly CCI and Winchester

In the same situation here. Primers and powder look anything like these?

16104

16105

16106

[steyrman13]

In the same situation here. Primers and powder look anything like these?

16104

16105

16106

Almost exactly haha! Including the Old Hornady boxes in the background! Just wish I had found the amount you have!

[jstone]

For testing the primers you don't have to go to the range. I'm talking about just seating a primer nothing else in the case. If you have nosey neighbors you could do it in the garage. It makes a good amount of noise so if you think it is not wise to do it in the garage take them to the range.

If the primers are bad it saves you some time, because you don't have to break the rounds down to salvage the powder/bullets.

I live in the sticks, and have a range at home. So I just step outside and fire them.

That's how I tested the primers I tried to kill with the oil's from my fingers.

[steyrman13]

For testing the primers you don't have to go to the range. I'm talking about just seating a primer nothing else in the case. If you have nosey neighbors you could do it in the garage. It makes a good amount of noise so if you think it is not wise to do it in the garage take them to the range.

If the primers are bad it saves you some time, because you don't have to break the rounds down to salvage the powder/bullets.

I live in the sticks, and have a range at home. So I just step outside and fire them.

That's how I tested the primers I tried to kill with the oil's from my fingers.

We are on the same page...problem highlighted in bold haha. My range is only about 8 minutes from my house, so not too bad. I dream to one day be able to just walk in my backyard to my range like some of my cousins have it!

[hjmpanzr]

For testing the primers you don't have to go to the range. I'm talking about just seating a primer nothing else in the case. If you have nosey neighbors you could do it in the garage. It makes a good amount of noise so if you think it is not wise to do it in the garage take them to the range.

If the primers are bad it saves you some time, because you don't have to break the rounds down to salvage the powder/bullets.

I live in the sticks, and have a range at home. So I just step outside and fire them.

That's how I tested the primers I tried to kill with the oil's from my fingers.

Funny you should say that about the garage. When I was 5-6, that's how my dad used to keep me busy when he was working out there. He'd dump a 100 primers (from the lots of primers in the photos -- he had tens of thousands from his work) on the ground and give me a hammer. I didn't remember them being so loud.

I dumped 10 on the garage floor about a month ago and gave my 5 year old a hammer. He only got 2 smashed before I grabbed the hammer. Maybe I've gotten soft but it was very loud although he didn't seem to mind a bit.

[MAP]

I'm using some small pistol primers from 1978. They work very well.

Mike

[steyrman13]

I'm using some small pistol primers from 1978. They work very well.

Mike

I wasn't concerned of the age as much as improperly stored. Humidity mostly and non-airtight. Obviously the basement is cool and dark, not a high heat area.

[shootist~]

I loaded my first 9mm rounds in many years recently. I used 10+ year old VV powder and Clinton era Federal small rifle primers. They shot and chronographed exactly as expected. Storage was inside a closet and I live in a dry climate, but a for a number of those years we used a swamp cooler.

You should be fine, but I would only load enough for one range trip to start with.

[Dan46n2]

A few years ago I loaded up some of my fathers powder and primers from the early 80s, worked great, no issues.

[Ned Christiansen]

I have powder and primers inherited from an older friend, about the same age as my Vanilla Fudge albums, vintage mid-sixties-- RWS and Staynless primers, and some of the powders you show-- all are good. Given good storage I'll bet 100 years plus is not outlandish.

Most people won't believe this-- I called Hercules Powder maybe 20 years ago (when it was still Hercules), I had found a few red dots in my Blue Dot powder. They guy said they used the same machines for both and sometimes you'll have that, etc. We started talking about Bullseye powder. He told me, "Yeah, we still have some from the original batch, we use it to gage the performance of each new batch".

"Well that's some pretty old powder," says me.

"Oh yeah," says he, "but we store it under water."

I say, "I can see that. Like, for safety? Must be some watertight container you've got there."

"Ah, no," says he, "it's IN the water. We bring up a scoop and dry it out for the testing."

I found that pretty interesting.

OK, let's have some stabs at how old that original batch of Bullseye is? Honor system here lads, no Googling, just your best guess off-the-cuff.....

[steyrman13]

I have powder and primers inherited from an older friend, about the same age as my Vanilla Fudge albums, vintage mid-sixties-- RWS and Staynless primers, and some of the powders you show-- all are good. Given good storage I'll bet 100 years plus is not outlandish.

Most people won't believe this-- I called Hercules Powder maybe 20 years ago (when it was still Hercules), I had found a few red dots in my Blue Dot powder. They guy said they used the same machines for both and sometimes you'll have that, etc. We started talking about Bullseye powder. He told me, "Yeah, we still have some from the original batch, we use it to gage the performance of each new batch".

"Well that's some pretty old powder," says me.

"Oh yeah," says he, "but we store it under water."

I say, "I can see that. Like, for safety? Must be some watertight container you've got there."

"Ah, no," says he, "it's IN the water. We bring up a scoop and dry it out for the testing."

I found that pretty interesting.

OK, let's have some stabs at how old that original batch of Bullseye is? Honor system here lads, no Googling, just your best guess off-the-cuff.....

1940s?
In the red- I'm going to take 1/4 pound and try this just to see the results. That is very interesting. So it almost seems as if Heat is the main cause for powder spoilage then?

[hjmpanzr]

I have powder and primers inherited from an older friend, about the same age as my Vanilla Fudge albums, vintage mid-sixties-- RWS and Staynless primers, and some of the powders you show-- all are good. Given good storage I'll bet 100 years plus is not outlandish.

Most people won't believe this-- I called Hercules Powder maybe 20 years ago (when it was still Hercules), I had found a few red dots in my Blue Dot powder. They guy said they used the same machines for both and sometimes you'll have that, etc. We started talking about Bullseye powder. He told me, "Yeah, we still have some from the original batch, we use it to gage the performance of each new batch".

"Well that's some pretty old powder," says me.

"Oh yeah," says he, "but we store it under water."

I say, "I can see that. Like, for safety? Must be some watertight container you've got there."

"Ah, no," says he, "it's IN the water. We bring up a scoop and dry it out for the testing."

I found that pretty interesting.

OK, let's have some stabs at how old that original batch of Bullseye is? Honor system here lads, no Googling, just your best guess off-the-cuff.....

The materials in the photos is almost certainly 1960s. My father worked for Hercules and then went to Thiokol (where ATK is located today). During the 60s, part of his job was to pressure test the different prototypes of firearms from many of the major firearm manufacturers. In other words, he'd keep uploading until he rendered the gun inoperable in some form or another.

I know that during the same time he was working on liquid propellants for small arms and caseless ammo/electronic bullets for small arms. I think I still have one or two of those in 5.56 around. Odd looking things. He was a wealth of knowledge but unfortunately I didn't take full advantage of it while he was living.

Doesn't surprise me one bit about them keeping the powder in water. While a teen, he used to do all sorts of things that I found odd with powder, primers and the like and would question him on it. and he would look at me like I was an idiot. He and his co-workers tried just about everything. After that he worked on missile delivery systems.

Everything in the photos is just part of what he had. Unfortunately, after he died I only had two days and to fit everything I could into a Subaru outback to drive from UT to VA. I had to leave a lot behind but I got quite a bit.

Here's some more photos -- a bit of nostalgia. Most of the bullets are good for at least practice.

While I'm sure he could have answered your question, I've got nothing!

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a578/hjmpanzr/22513009_zps0f4655e4.jpg

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a578/hjmpanzr/22513011_zps94dfa7f5.jpg

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a578/hjmpanzr/22513004_zpsa8b66ff8.jpg

[markm]

That shit came over on the Mayflower, Jack!

[gitsome]

OK, let's have some stabs at how old that original batch of Bullseye is? Honor system here lads, no Googling, just your best guess off-the-cuff.....

WWI - early 20's???

[shootist~]

1956.

[Ned Christiansen]

I haven't Googled it yet but I believe..... would you believe..... 1897..? I seem to remember it was first loaded in .22's but that could be something else.

Yes, I'd say heat was the enemy of good storage. In somebody's dry basement for years, OK; stored in a Conex parked in the middle of the desert for years, maybe not OK.

[Kevin Thomas]

Bullseye's well over 100 years old now, and yes, that's the original batch. Still giving good results after over a century. Most shooters aren't aware of this, but most powders are produced in several steps, many of which occur underwater. Not at all unusual, and still being done this way for many types even today.

[aguila327]

Funny you should say that about the garage. When I was 5-6, that's how my dad used to keep me busy when he was working out there. He'd dump a 100 primers (from the lots of primers in the photos -- he had tens of thousands from his work) on the ground and give me a hammer. I didn't remember them being so loud.

I dumped 10 on the garage floor about a month ago and gave my 5 year old a hammer. He only got 2 smashed before I grabbed the hammer. Maybe I've gotten soft but it was very loud although he didn't seem to mind a bit.

Sounds like a news paper story in the making. The kind of story we cringe at. Please don't di yhst again. At least without proper eye and ear pro.

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