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This week, between 3 stores, I've seen or been already to - M4 Colt 6920 in black or FDE aT $1147.00, 3 SW MP15 at $1049 and one Bushy carbon at $797
I think that the pipeline is beginning to open up
nice!!! east coast is opening back up also. saw a smith & wesson m&p and a sig 516 at my local shop. hopefully things will be coming back to normal... especially the prices!!
When I can find 9mm at Wal-Mart I'll agree with you but until then I will have to disagree.
ScatmanCrothers
03-30-13, 00:45
When I can find 9mm at Wal-Mart I'll agree with you but until then I will have to disagree.
:alcoholic:
Honorthecall81
03-30-13, 03:17
It is getting better. I saw Daniel Defense's back on the wall of a place I frequent. V1's and V5's. they also were at what seemed to be pre scare prices. They were close to DD's website prices. This is a good sign.
steyrman13
03-30-13, 03:21
It is getting better. I saw Daniel Defense's back on the wall of a place I frequent. V1's and V5's. they also were at what seemed to be pre scare prices. They were close to DD's website prices. This is a good sign.
Can't you order directly from DD's site for the listed price (assuming it's less the LGS has them). I saw reports on here of 2-3week turn around as well
When I can find 9mm at Wal-Mart I'll agree with you but until then I will have to disagree.
Geeze, I said BEGINNING TO OPEN UP, not a full return to the pre-Sandy Hook scare pricing and availability. But when I can buy a full sleeve of 22LR Stingers and later in the same week, an ammo can of 420 rounds of Federal 62 gr 5.56, that was only .58 a round, including sales tax, both at main stream retailers things have changed greatly.
Sorry you think 9MM WWB is the indicator of normalcy, but I don't buy that even when it's available. :no:
Straight Shooter
03-30-13, 06:46
I posted yesterday about the same thing.
Doesn't matter one twit to me if some believe it or not.
Things ARE coming around again. S&W AR's with scope...$999.
Ammo can of Federal M855 green tip, 420 rounds...$333.33.
Beau Coup Gold Dot pistol ammo...$29.99.
Here in Alabama things are showing up on shelves more and more.
Also...as one who despises WalMart, I don't use that store to gage how things in the gun world are, or are not.
That's just me tho.
I posted yesterday about the same thing.
Doesn't matter one twit to me if some believe it or not.
Things ARE coming around again. S&W AR's with scope...$999.
Ammo can of Federal M855 green tip, 420 rounds...$333.33.
Beau Coup Gold Dot pistol ammo...$29.99.
Here in Alabama things are showing up on shelves more and more.
Also...as one who despises WalMart, I don't use that store to gage how things in the gun world are, or are not.
That's just me tho.
Ouch on the Federal M885, that was $219.99 a 420 round ammo can, yesterday at the Bass Pro outside Mobile. If it helps anyone, I will post it if I see it again, but between me and serveral LEO it was gone in less than an hour.
I haven't seen much Gold Dot, but have noticed that Golden Saber and Fed Hydra-Shok has become available again in .45acp.
Good luck to all in finding the ammo that they seek.
I'm with you guys. Thing are looking up by me also. Not great but getting better. Probably geographical and maybe we have less hoarders in the area.
Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2
Can't you order directly from DD's site for the listed price (assuming it's less the LGS has them). I saw reports on here of 2-3week turn around as wellDD has briefly listed a few available builds and sold them back into "call for availability" status. You can use the Build Your Own feature (which is still minus a lot of standard options), but you still can't buy without an order code.
Some report success calling DD and ordering directly, though DD will only take orders on something they can build inside of 60 days, which is only a few of their models.
Finding a few ARs here and there only means that folks are running out of money not that the pipe line is opening up. When Wal-Mart has basic shit on the shelf it will be an indicator. And for the record I don't care much for Wal-Mart either but I think I'm right on this one.
Finding a few ARs here and there only means that folks are running out of money not that the pipe line is opening up. When Wal-Mart has basic shit on the shelf it will be an indicator. And for the record I don't care much for Wal-Mart either but I think I'm right on this one.
This isn't actually right from an economic standpoint. Resources move towards capital, and there is still plenty of money out there. If retailers can get things on their shelf at "normal" prices, then they expect to be able to sell them at normal prices. People aren't willing to pay $2200 for a Bushmaster anymore, and so they can finally make more of them than are immediately sold at shelf price. Same goes for ammo ($20 boxes of 5.56 aren't moving) and parts ($150 CTR stocks are going nowhere). WalMart isn't an indicator because WalMart isn't a firearms retailer, but a discount retailer. WalMart will be the last place that "returns to normal" because they pay the lowest possible price. Ammunition manufacturers know that they do not NEED to sell cheap bulk ammo to WalMart to drive profits. They can still sell all they can produce to firearms retailers that pay a premium price (even if that premium is only a dollar a box, it adds up fast) and keep their margins healthy.
There have been more rifles on the wall, and more ammo on the shelf at my local shops. Of course we aren't back to pre-scare availability or pricing, but things are looking up.
Still can't buy much 5.56, .22LR, or 9mm locally, but it can be found. I did replenish all of my .45ACP home defense and target ammo at a reasonable price on the last trip to the range.
Hopefully I can find a local deal on a can or two of 5.56 before summer and the inevitable trips to the range.
This isn't actually right from an economic standpoint. Resources move towards capital, and there is still plenty of money out there. If retailers can get things on their shelf at "normal" prices, then they expect to be able to sell them at normal prices. People aren't willing to pay $2200 for a Bushmaster anymore, and so they can finally make more of them than are immediately sold at shelf price. Same goes for ammo ($20 boxes of 5.56 aren't moving) and parts ($150 CTR stocks are going nowhere). WalMart isn't an indicator because WalMart isn't a firearms retailer, but a discount retailer. WalMart will be the last place that "returns to normal" because they pay the lowest possible price. Ammunition manufacturers know that they do not NEED to sell cheap bulk ammo to WalMart to drive profits. They can still sell all they can produce to firearms retailers that pay a premium price (even if that premium is only a dollar a box, it adds up fast) and keep their margins healthy.
There have been more rifles on the wall, and more ammo on the shelf at my local shops. Of course we aren't back to pre-scare availability or pricing, but things are looking up.
Still can't buy much 5.56, .22LR, or 9mm locally, but it can be found. I did replenish all of my .45ACP home defense and target ammo at a reasonable price on the last trip to the range.
Hopefully I can find a local deal on a can or two of 5.56 before summer and the inevitable trips to the range.
I concur, using Walmart as an indicator of market health and availability is incorrect. The true test will always be the higher profitability items and their availability.
As to 5.56 ammo, seeing a big box sporting goods dealer selling the M885 Federal at $219.99 for a 420 round ammo can is like seeing the new leafs budding. It is an indicator of things to come.
Good luck, all.
Heartland Hawk
03-30-13, 08:49
Ouch on the Federal M885, that was $219.99 a 420 round ammo can, yesterday at the Bass Pro outside Mobile. If it helps anyone, I will post it if I see it again, but between me and serveral LEO it was gone in less than an hour.
I haven't seen much Gold Dot, but have noticed that Golden Saber and Fed Hydra-Shok has become available again in .45acp.
Good luck to all in finding the ammo that they seek.
You're still getting fooked on that price for M855; pre-scare 30-35 cents a round was about right; maybe 38 cents a round here and there.
Heartland Hawk
03-30-13, 08:52
When I can find 9mm at Wal-Mart I'll agree with you but until then I will have to disagree.
As soon as the SG Managers at Wal Mart stop intercepting the shipment before they are put on the shelves to turning around and putting them on gunbroker for .50 cents a round you'll start seeing more on the shelves there. This is more prevelent than you think...
You're still getting fooked on that price for M855; pre-scare 30-35 cents a round was about right; maybe 38 cents a round here and there.
Point me to some at those prices and I will buy 5000 rounds today. Yes, true last summer I was paying about .40 a round delivered, but guess what? I've shot up most of that since then and wish to maintain a certain level on hand for practice and plinking.
But, if you have a source at those prices, please feel free to share, so we all can patronize your source and contribute to their success.
Of course the price is still far higher than before. We aren't by any means though the whole ordeal just yet, and the more the news covers "gun control" the more the situation will continue to draw on. Things just happen to be headed in the right direction when it comes to prices and availability. The fact that you COULDN'T EVEN FIND 5.56 and now you can find it regularly at higher prices is a leading indicator that supply is moving back into line with demand. It may take 6 months to see 40¢ a round and we may not see 35¢ a round again. Inflation alone may have brought the materials costs of primers, powder, brass and copper to a point where that's not economical anymore (for the folks that don't want to do the mental math, that would be $7 boxes of 5.56).
Things are easing up, were over the hump but nowhere near the bottom (Walmart prices).
I hope you fellers are right because I am sick of it being this way.
Up North in Wi we don't usually have much selection to choose from. but I came down to Springfield MO for few days, have seen more stripped lowers and decent ARs on the shelf than I have in a long while. even picked up a 6920 at precraze pricing.:D::D:D
Up North in Wi we don't usually have much selection to choose from. but I came down to Springfield MO for few days, have seen more stripped lowers and decent ARs on the shelf than I have in a long while. even picked up a 6920 at precraze pricing.:D::D:D
I don't recall what per-scare price was in the 6920, but personally know of 4 bought yesterday in two adjoining counties at less than $1100 retail. Black and FDE furniture, with a 30 rd PMAG (only 1 mag).
I got my BYO code email from DD yesterday (~7 days to ship once the order is submitted), but I already have a V7LW on order and there is no BYO LW 16" barrel option available so I'll wait for the V7LW. DD's are back to selling at list on Gunbroker.
Sig 556R's are still selling at a premium on Gunbroker, but they're under $1500 finally (~$1,100 pre panic). They had been selling for $1500-1800 for a while now and were well over $2k at the height of the panic.
Hopefully reloading supplies, 223/556 and 9MM range ammo will rapidly follow suit.
Now if BCM or HSP will put more Jack Carbines in the pipeline, I will be a happy man. That was my planned next buy, before all of the craziness started.
Of course the price is still far higher than before. We aren't by any means though the whole ordeal just yet, and the more the news covers "gun control" the more the situation will continue to draw on. Things just happen to be headed in the right direction when it comes to prices and availability. The fact that you COULDN'T EVEN FIND 5.56 and now you can find it regularly at higher prices is a leading indicator that supply is moving back into line with demand. It may take 6 months to see 40¢ a round and we may not see 35¢ a round again. Inflation alone may have brought the materials costs of primers, powder, brass and copper to a point where that's not economical anymore (for the folks that don't want to do the mental math, that would be $7 boxes of 5.56).
I'm pretty much in agreement with this analysis,although it is true that a lot of people have spent all they are willing to spend at this point until things level out. We're getting back to normal at a snail's pace,and I think we can expect to see more or less normal pricing again,although I don't see it at being as low as before.
My belief is that dealers (i.e., FFL holders) were sort of hoarding these things until their expectations of a "ban" or some type of supply shock were eased. Having the FFL license gives dealers a monopoly of sorts. Ergo, why would they dump a bunch of stuff on the market at pre-panic prices if they have exclusive access to said items and can get a panic price for them? Further, were a ban of some type to go through, they would be kicking themselves for not waiting a little longer to earn higher rates of return on their stock.
Only two factors would lower prices: (1) dealers' inventories becoming so bloated that they start lowering prices to move product. This would create competition among dealers and prices would start to stabilize downward---not necessarily pre-panic, but lower than panic. And (2) consumers running out of money.
My point is that I believe dealers were, at least in part, creating the supply shock which their FFL license allows them to do. This isn't to say that the industry and manufacturers didn't get hit with exorbitant and unanticipated demand shocks. I'm simply saying that in this environment, there is an incentive for dealers to not display for sale their full inventories in order to shift the supply curve left.
At least that's what my economics tells me.
I'm glad that things are coming back to normal. I have used this time to buy accessories and such (lights, optics) which weren't hit with the same supply and demand "constraints" and shocks.
I reload. Bullets are getting easier to find as well as primers. Powder and brass.......now that's a different story.
palmnorris
03-30-13, 11:27
It looks like M855 is becoming more available on line but the prices are still a little out of line. I think I will just go to the garage and load some pistol ammo and wait a month or so to buy 5.56.
skywalkrNCSU
03-30-13, 14:50
I am just ready for the BCG pipeline to open up.
flyfishnevada
03-30-13, 15:38
New member, new AR owner but long time gun owner. Gotta jump in somewhere. I've been looking for .223 since I bought my AR. I've scored some here and there and it's getting easier to find at a reasonable price (sub .60 cents/rd). I've seen it much lower in the last couple of weeks but my budget is reserved for .22lr. Even that is under 10 cents/rd if you look around and wait.
I know I bought my AR at an inflated price, but I got a good firearm with all the bells and whistles (.556 chamber, M4 feed ramps, blah, blah, blah)and the couple of hundred premium I paid during a time of uncertainty doesn't make it any less fun to shoot. The place I got it is advertising lower prices now and ammo in stock. If I shoot 270 Win, I'd have all the ammo I ever needed at my local Wal-Mart.:D Online you can get stuff if your patient and it's getting easier.
I think I've learned not to put things off. I was going to get the AR last summer but put it off. I could have bought more .22 at anytime but wasn't planning on shooting as winter approached. No more. I see a good deal, I'm getting it. Plenty shoot and a little to keep in case the SHTF. Things are opening up and in a few month, hopefully, things will be back to some semblance of normal.
While it is opening up, prices are still inflated here. Not many new guns, but lots of used ones popping up overpriced. Ammo is still nonexistent And our dicks and Dunham sports both have lines at opening on shipment days. I haven't caught a round in stock that I shoot in our walmarts.
While it is opening up, prices are still inflated here. Not many new guns, but lots of used ones popping up overpriced. Ammo is still nonexistent And our dicks and Dunham sports both have lines at opening on shipment days. I haven't caught a round in stock that I shoot in our walmarts.
What rounds do you shoot in your Walmarts?:p
FlyingHunter
03-30-13, 17:53
Agree -it's getting better! Was in my LGS today. They had 20+ AR's on the rack all makes and models at pre panic prices. MagPul mags, Ammo in .223, lots of it but were limiting folks to 5 boxes of 20 per purchase per day. I bought 5 boxes .223 PMC for $9 per box.
grantw1221
03-30-13, 18:01
Bought a complete Aero lower for $235 shipped... I'd say things are calming down firearm wise. Ammo wise? No way.
mrjinglesusa
03-30-13, 18:23
If you can buy a Daniel Defense DDM4v7 LW on Gun Broker for MSRP, things are definitely calming down.
12/30/2012: $2300
1/6/2013: $2501
1/10/2013: $2450
1/12/2013: $2800 :suicide2:
1/18/2013: $2800
1/31/2013: $2125
2/2/2013: $2225
2/6/2013: $2250
2/13/2013: $1980
2/21/2013: $2525
3/7/2013: $1975
3/13/2013: $1925
3/19/2013: $1800
3/24/2013: $1550
TODAY: $1499.95 (Buy it Now Price)
:D
I agree that it is good to see the rifles hit the racks. Now we just need Janet Napolitano to keep from buying all the ammo:stop:
Suwannee Tim
03-30-13, 19:38
I visited several gun shops in the Atlanta area recently, some guns, no ammo and no powder.
My local Walmart this afternoon :
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac279/jaxman7/2013-03-30_12-43-25_708_zps838ecaee.jpg
Ammo on the shelf was .35 Wheelen, .270, 30-06 & assorted 20/12 gauge.
Has literally been like this since December :confused:
-Jax
Traveshamockery
03-30-13, 21:02
I think it's fair to say the run on complete rifles is over. Components like BCGs and lower receivers are still in short supply, and are selling well over MSRP.
I expect prices and availability of ammo will not return to October 2012 levels for 6-8 months, and this assumes no more mass shootings of school kids. I'm planning and allocating my stocks accordingly.
first there
03-31-13, 00:20
Just paid 20 bucks for 20 rounds of 556 and $35 for 50rds of 9mm :suicide2:
The only ammo I can find locally is 12 gauge and .45 auto. There is no 5.56/9mm, to be found.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
Keep looking, it is showing up in more and more retail and on line locations.
Good luck in finding what you need!
gesundheit
03-31-13, 07:39
Bought a complete Aero lower for $235 shipped... I'd say things are calming down firearm wise. Ammo wise? No way.
Ammo is harder to find because now there are a lot of new firearm owners - the ones that consider 60 cent per 5.56 round a good deal :D I get to regale them with tales of how the same rounds could be had for 20 cents each just a few years ago.
This is the second time in slightly less than 20 years that the supply stream has been interrupted by false / legislated means. It was driven prices upward and caused many to spend undedicated funds in panic buying. It could easily happen again.
What lessons should we learn?
Should we maintain a minimum number of rounds per firearm?
Okay, let's take that thought and explore. So what is a minimum? 1000 rds? 2000 rds? 10,000 rds? Lets go with 10,000 rds always on hand, per firearm. For the purpose of the exercise let's use a household average of 10 firearms, so we're talking 100,000 rounds held in reserve? Add the rounds that you use for practice, duty, SD/HD, training or just plinking. Becomes a lot of money quickly, takes a lot of space and should be properly stored and rotated.
Excessive? Yes, if the supply stream is flowing and the politicians leave legal firearms, firearms owners alone. If the stream is interrupted again and threatened to be damed to a trickle, then to nothing, maybe not so excessive.
Your thoughts?
Up North in Wi we don't usually have much selection to choose from. but I came down to Springfield MO for few days, have seen more stripped lowers and decent ARs on the shelf than I have in a long while. even picked up a 6920 at precraze pricing.:D::D:D
Coming into my area and snatching up our supply huh? :D
Where did you find that 6920 at normal price? I had kind of given up looking for awhile.
I saw a Colt 6940 in the case @ the local wally world last week and walked out with 1000rds of 9mm late night. $230 for the 9, $1399 for the 6940. The ammo has always been flowing into Walmart, people have just gotten real good at getting at it at weird hours or the employees were hoarding it. SG managers and the stocking people were on to the fact they could make a good deal of cash hocking it online........
twistedcomrade
03-31-13, 09:54
I will be glad when 7.63x51 FMJ goes below a buck a round and when Pmags can be had. I will continue to slowly stock up again after prices settle down, just like I have been doing since 2008.
PA PATRIOT
03-31-13, 10:38
Recently a lot of Tulammo 7.62x39 and Federal Independence imported IMI 5.56 M193 is hitting the local scene but 9mm and .22LR is still non existent.
Prices are a bit elevated maybe a buck or two more a box over pre-scare times but its available.
I have been grabbing the IMI as its very good quality 5.56 at 0.40 cents per round.
Bolt_Overide
03-31-13, 10:40
:alcoholic:
bought 400 rounds of WWB at walmart last night.
My local Walmart had about 10 boxes of Federal 9mm yesterday. This was late morning on a Saturday.
They also had a few boxes of Tula 9mm.
I agree that it is good to see the rifles hit the racks. Now we just need Janet Napolitano to keep from buying all the ammo:stop:
It wont stop. The Queen needs it all to protect her castle. Add that to the frustration of those that already owned rifles, and the new mall ninja's...we are going to be feeling the pinch for a while. Hopefully darwin will get in the drivers seat on a few of those and the ammo will start flowing.
My new neighbor is one of those mall ninja's. Brand new, never fired bushy, with all the flashy trim and 5 pmags, and 500 rounds of ammo. He is waiting to sell when the market is right. He was offended when I started to laugh and walk away...
I hate that guy...
I was in several Walmart, Cabelas, and LGS stores in the last few days. Signs of life on the shelf with several options in service calibers, including .223, .308, .40, 45 ACP, and .357 Sig. Not much in the way of 9mm. Prices were standard retail, with added manufacturer increases (10-15%).
Picked up several hundred rounds of .223 at $.35/rd, 40SW at .30/rd, .308 at .80/rd. Mostly imports.
Rifles are showing up more as well. People are out of available credit and guns are sitting with the gougers much longer.
"My new neighbor is one of those mall ninja's. Brand new, never fired bushy, with all the flashy trim and 5 pmags, and 500 rounds of ammo. He is waiting to sell when the market is right. He was offended when I started to laugh and walk away...
I hate that guy..."
EPIC, lol!!!
I was in several Walmart, Cabelas, and LGS stores in the last few days. Signs of life on the shelf with several options in service calibers, including .223, .308, .40, 45 ACP, and .357 Sig. Not much in the way of 9mm. Prices were standard retail, with added manufacturer increases (10-15%).
Picked up several hundred rounds of .223 at $.35/rd, 40SW at .30/rd, .308 at .80/rd. Mostly imports.
Rifles are showing up more as well. People are out of available credit and guns are sitting with the gougers much longer.
CREDIT??? Uh, NO. One should only buy what one can afford with allocated funds, never credit for this type of purchase.
CREDIT??? Uh, NO. One should only buy what one can afford with allocated funds, never credit for this type of purchase.
That's not the mentality in a panic. People throw things on credit because they think that it won't be able to get it when they would have the cash available. Or they plan on flipping it for a profit (read: the housing bubble) because of the price being driven higher by scarcity.
New member, new AR owner but long time gun owner. Gotta jump in somewhere. I've been looking for .223 since I bought my AR. I've scored some here and there and it's getting easier to find at a reasonable price (sub .60 cents/rd). I've seen it much lower in the last couple of weeks but my budget is reserved for .22lr. Even that is under 10 cents/rd if you look around and wait.
I know I bought my AR at an inflated price, but I got a good firearm with all the bells and whistles (.556 chamber, M4 feed ramps, blah, blah, blah)and the couple of hundred premium I paid during a time of uncertainty doesn't make it any less fun to shoot. The place I got it is advertising lower prices now and ammo in stock. If I shoot 270 Win, I'd have all the ammo I ever needed at my local Wal-Mart.:D Online you can get stuff if your patient and it's getting easier.
I think I've learned not to put things off. I was going to get the AR last summer but put it off. I could have bought more .22 at anytime but wasn't planning on shooting as winter approached. No more. I see a good deal, I'm getting it. Plenty shoot and a little to keep in case the SHTF. Things are opening up and in a few month, hopefully, things will be back to some semblance of normal.
I agree with this sentiment. I didn't have the need for .223/5.56 until I got a Colt M4 for XMas this past year and the price was nothing to complain about. My LGS has its shelves restocked with guns and has started to get in some ammo but their prices are still around $17/20 so it is pricey. I pick up a box or two here and there to support my LGS and to keep the barrel warm. I'll be looking forward to lower prices and when at a point where I feel comfortable, I'll purchase bulk to keep the barrel hot. 22LR is still difficult to find though.
flyfishnevada
03-31-13, 16:43
That's not the mentality in a panic. People throw things on credit because they think that it won't be able to get it when they would have the cash available. Or they plan on flipping it for a profit (read: the housing bubble) because of the price being driven higher by scarcity.
IF you were buying to flip, buying up a ton of ammo on credit and selling it wouldn't be a bad business move. There's risk, the bottom might just drop out of the market if winds begin to blow the other way.
That is the reason this will end. Wives will stop their husbands from spending the Hawaii money on ammo. Credit cards will be maxed out. Shelves in the closet will be full. New buyers will begin to realize $1.80 for Russian .223 rounds or .40 cents/round for .22lr is WAY to much. Demand will wane, price will go down.
And a lot of flippers will be hung out to dry. I have nothing against a little old fashioned entrepreneurship but when you play high risk games, you lose big too.
Went to the range today and they had DD, DPMS, S&W (15 and 15/22), and a host of other rifles I could not discern the maker on. They looked like dressed up DPMS to me.
There were also complete and stripped lowers available, as well as PMC .223 although overpriced at .60 a round.
The M&P was a sport model and was listed at $899
Lesson learned.... Buy it cheap, stack it deep....
traindriver
03-31-13, 17:02
$35.00 for 50rds of 9mm! I wish I would. I'm holding out and as I hold out I pick up a litte here and a little there. When it can be found at a normal price. A few weeks ago I found 4 220rd boxes of .22 at wally world for $9.97 each. Got 3 and left 1. It's still like fishing, got to be at the right hole at the right time.
14.99 for 50 rounds of 9mm i picked up for my nephew when i was at cabelas limit 5 boxes
There's risk, the bottom might just drop out of the market if winds begin to blow the other way.
Which is why I referenced the housing bubble.
Here in Ohio, I have been unable to find ammo except for 12 gauge.
Colt/DD/other good brand ARs are also in short supply.
Cheap AR mags and Bushmasters/DMPS rifles abound though... and people are lining up buy them! :suicide2:
IF you were buying to flip, buying up a ton of ammo on credit and selling it wouldn't be a bad business move. There's risk, the bottom might just drop out of the market if winds begin to blow the other way.
And a lot of flippers will be hung out to dry. I have nothing against a little old fashioned entrepreneurship but when you play high risk games, you lose big too.
The answer is to become a flipper that is too big to fail so you get a govt bailout!! Just like the big banks. Big motors. Big greenie.
This week, between 3 stores, I've seen or been already to - M4 Colt 6920 in black or FDE aT $1147.00, 3 SW MP15 at $1049 and one Bushy carbon at $797
I think that the pipeline is beginning to open up
I hope y'all won't mind but I didn't feel starting a new thread would be appropriate over something so mundane and this seemed to follow within the spirit of this thread (if you stretch!) ...
I contacted a private seller over a unfired, LNIB 6920. The gentleman is asking $1550.00 OBO. Way too much $$$ for a basic rifle, and used to boot. I will most likely contact him tomorrow with a counter of $1k "firm". What do you guys think?
I hope y'all won't mind but I didn't feel starting a new thread would be appropriate over something so mundane and this seemed to follow within the spirit of this thread (if you stretch!) ...
I contacted a private seller over a unfired, LNIB 6920. The gentleman is asking $1550.00 OBO. Way too much $$$ for a basic rifle, and used to boot. I will most likely contact him tomorrow with a counter of $1k "firm". What do you guys think?
LNIB? 1200$
flyfishnevada
03-31-13, 21:11
The answer is to become a flipper that is too big to fail so you get a govt bailout!! Just like the big banks. Big motors. Big greenie.
Can the big Cheaper Than Dirt, Midway and Brownells bailouts be far off?:lol:
Kalash9305
03-31-13, 23:11
Here in Ohio, I have been unable to find ammo except for 12 gauge.
Colt/DD/other good brand ARs are also in short supply.
Cheap AR mags and Bushmasters/DMPS rifles abound though... and people are lining up buy them! :suicide2:
Word ....... STILL can't get any PMAGS here in Columbus ... the new Cabela's ran out about five minutes into Opening Day and no one else has them either .... have to drive out to Woodbury Outfitters in Coshocton to even lay eyes on one at $30+ a pop ..... :shout:
Word ....... STILL can't get any PMAGS here in Columbus ... the new Cabela's ran out about five minutes into Opening Day and no one else has them either .... have to drive out to Woodbury Outfitters in Coshocton to even lay eyes on one at $30+ a pop ..... :shout:
Yep, was just in that Cabela's yesterday. Unless you have a Makarov, you were going to be very disappointed. Lot of hot chicks there, though. :p
$30+? Ouch.
IF you were buying to flip, buying up a ton of ammo on credit and selling it wouldn't be a bad business move. There's risk, the bottom might just drop out of the market if winds begin to blow the other way.
That is the reason this will end. Wives will stop their husbands from spending the Hawaii money on ammo. Credit cards will be maxed out. Shelves in the closet will be full. New buyers will begin to realize $1.80 for Russian .223 rounds or .40 cents/round for .22lr is WAY to much. Demand will wane, price will go down.
And a lot of flippers will be hung out to dry. I have nothing against a little old fashioned entrepreneurship but when you play high risk games, you lose big too.
This!
and man do I love it when it happens. In the past I have bought several quality guns and 1000s of rounds of ammo from these very types and I am looking forward to buying more from them. AFWIW I am flush with firearms factory ammo and hand loading components thanks to these people. God bless America!
Can the big Cheaper Than Dirt, Midway and Brownells bailouts be far off?:lol:
I won't even say CTD. But as to Brownells and Midway USA, I would bet that the USA armed forces will need a "bailout" before those two companies will. Between the two I personally bail them both out in the amount of approx $200.00 a month. I am still receiving 10 packs of $9.99 each Pmags from Brownells that I ordered several months back.
Starting to see more and more items available here in FL. Ammo prices are still high though.
Local LGS has its shelves well resupplied and ammo is now coming in but it is a bit pricey. I did get 3 boxes of .45 ACP a week or so ago at one of my local Walmarts. It is hit or miss there but typically the shelves are still bare.
The Cabela's in St. Louis has their full complement of ARs behind the gun counter (Bushmasters, Windhams, Sig 55_s, and a few POFs). And the rack has been full since at least the middle of last week. I've been to a couple LGS' who also have rifles in stock.
Armslist is getting quite crowded with lightly used rifles for sale. If you want to add to your safe, and waited out the panic nonsense, now is the time to start looking for deals. I think a lot of the panic buyers bought their rifles, put a box or two of ammo through them and then got their credit card bills in the mail.:eek:
Reasonably priced ammo, however, is still a bit of a crap shoot.
...I think a lot of the panic buyers bought their rifles, put a box or two of ammo through them and then got their credit card bills in the mail.:eek:
...
It has to be hard when you realize that the $1200 rifle that you paid $2000+ for last month is only worth $1200.
Of course I don't think I've ever seen a used gun listed for sale that has had more than 100 or so rounds run through it and isn't in NIB condition :no:
I think the bottom may soon drop out in ammo. About half the .223/5.56 auctions on gunbroker get no bid these days. Looks like reality setting in.
twistedcomrade
04-01-13, 09:54
I think the bottom may soon drop out in ammo. About half the .223/5.56 auctions on gunbroker get no bid these days. Looks like reality setting in.
That is encouraging news.
[/B]
What rounds do you shoot in your Walmarts?:p
And this boys and girls is a great example of where punctuation is important :D
That is encouraging news.
Yes, but the ammo market is different than the rifle market because you can't [usually] back-order a rifle. There is a massive back-order of ammo that must get pushed out before things will get back to anything similar to Oct/Nov type ammunition supplies, IMO.
There is still a very active ammo deal thread on TOS, and anything that gets posted there is invariably OOS within 30 minutes. .223, .308, 9mm, .40 S&W, .22LR, Anything gets snatched up very quickly.
Gunbroker auctions are getting stood up, but gunbot and the other sites still show outrageously priced ammo. If buyers show restraint the average prices will come down, but I don't think we'll see any significant market corrections until the early summer (May-June).
Not terrible news there. Here in WA that's right when it gets nice enough to head to the outdoor ranges with regularity... :D
Kalash9305
04-01-13, 12:20
Yep, was just in that Cabela's yesterday. Unless you have a Makarov, you were going to be very disappointed. Lot of hot chicks there, though. :p
$30+? Ouch.
LOTS of hot chicks bro ... why I keep goin' back lookin' for 5.56 that's never there lol ..... :D
Yes, but the ammo market is different than the rifle market because you can't [usually] back-order a rifle. There is a massive back-order of ammo that must get pushed out before things will get back to anything similar to Oct/Nov type ammunition supplies, IMO.
There is still a very active ammo deal thread on TOS, and anything that gets posted there is invariably OOS within 30 minutes. .223, .308, 9mm, .40 S&W, .22LR, Anything gets snatched up very quickly.
Gunbroker auctions are getting stood up, but gunbot and the other sites still show outrageously priced ammo. If buyers show restraint the average prices will come down, but I don't think we'll see any significant market corrections until the early summer (May-June).
I think that lots of people will take that back-ordered ammo and sell it for what they can get. The floor is about to drop out on the auction sites. I hope.
This week, between 3 stores, I've seen or been already to - M4 Colt 6920 in black or FDE aT $1147.00, 3 SW MP15 at $1049 and one Bushy carbon at $797
I think that the pipeline is beginning to open up
That depends on which "pipeline" you are referring to...
...Yep for guns, a bit...but all dried up for ammo now?
What good are the guns with no ammo to shoot.
On that point, I have a question...
I have been TOLD, by a number of sources that have never in the past steered me wrong...that this whole ammo shortage thing is phony, bogus, "manufactured" by the "middlemen"...those "distributers" , in between the manufacturer & the retailer...in order to drive up prices, they "hoard"...then release in small amounts...fake supply & demand.
Sounds about correct, I mean, the oil / gasoline industry has been doing that for decades!
What say you?
Why don't the BIG manufacturers like Hornady, Remington Winchester & Federal, as well as the big "retailers" just tell these guys to "knock it off"...?
These ammo companies are cranking out the ammo faster than ever...but NONE to be had in stores or online?
REALLY, come on now ?
I have been TOLD, by a number of sources that have never in the past steered me wrong...that this whole ammo shortage thing is phony, bogus, "manufactured" by the "middlemen"...those "distributers" , in between the manufacturer & the retailer...in order to drive up prices, they "hoard"...then release in small amounts...fake supply & demand.
Sounds about correct, I mean, the oil / gasoline industry has been doing that for decades!
What say you?
Why don't the BIG manufacturers like Hornady, Remington Winchester & Federal, as well as the big "retailers" just tell these guys to "knock it off"...?
These ammo companies are cranking out the ammo faster than ever...but NONE to be had in stores or online?
REALLY, come on now ?
IMO, That seems highly unlikely.
Besides the problem of getting everyone to cooperate, the point of reducing supply would be to SELL at a higher price. IMO, sales are too backlogged for that. No point in producing and NOT selling because the whole point would be to cash in on increased prices. And if you are sitting on a surplus and the panic goes away, your prices and demand go down (lose-lose).
Then there is the issue of risk. Sitting on product with the potential of upcoming bans/restrictions doesn't make much sense.
I think the more likely thing is it is exactly what it looks like. Panic buying that mfgs couldn't keep up with.
-john
That depends on which "pipeline" you are referring to...
...Yep for guns, a bit...but all dried up for ammo now?
What good are the guns with no ammo to shoot.
On that point, I have a question...
I have been TOLD, by a number of sources that have never in the past steered me wrong...that this whole ammo shortage thing is phony, bogus, "manufactured" by the "middlemen"...those "distributers" , in between the manufacturer & the retailer...in order to drive up prices, they "hoard"...then release in small amounts...fake supply & demand.
Sounds about correct, I mean, the oil / gasoline industry has been doing that for decades!
What say you?
Why don't the BIG manufacturers like Hornady, Remington Winchester & Federal, as well as the big "retailers" just tell these guys to "knock it off"...?
These ammo companies are cranking out the ammo faster than ever...but NONE to be had in stores or online?
REALLY, come on now ?
I don't know about that. I just ordered Herters180gr .308 from Cabelas for $17.99 per 20. More than 3 months ago, but not outrageously so.
Rootbrain
IMO, That seems highly unlikely.
Besides the problem of getting everyone to cooperate, the point of reducing supply would be to SELL at a higher price. IMO, sales are too backlogged for that. No point in producing and NOT selling because the whole point would be to cash in on increased prices. And if you are sitting on a surplus and the panic goes away, your prices and demand go down (lose-lose).
Then there is the issue of risk. Sitting on product with the potential of upcoming bans/restrictions doesn't make much sense.
I think the more likely thing is it is exactly what it looks like. Panic buying that mfgs couldn't keep up with.
-john
perhaps...I dunno, what I was told by a large outlet here in Vegas...
...what I du know is that 22LR is 2x the price pre-panic Barack-Osama speech...if you can find it, 9mm, .223 & .308 have been exhausted here and "Gone in 60 Seconds" if it shows... and where did ALL the decent priced 6.8 SPC & .300 ACC Blackout / Whisper go?
Plentiful before, what Hornady & Remington not putting out, I doubt it
?
I have been TOLD, by a number of sources that have never in the past steered me wrong...that this whole ammo shortage thing is phony, bogus, "manufactured" by the "middlemen"...those "distributers" , in between the manufacturer & the retailer...in order to drive up prices, they "hoard"...then release in small amounts...fake supply & demand.
I don't believe that for a second. The price is heading back DOWN on ammo, and if that theory were right the market should be flooding with ammo attempting to chase the higher potential returns before the price drops further. To get all of the distributors to go along on such a grand scheme of price fixing (and a criminal conspiracy at that) seems to be to grand to be plausible.
I don't believe that for a second. The price is heading back DOWN on ammo, and if that theory were right the market should be flooding with ammo attempting to chase the higher potential returns before the price drops further. To get all of the distributors to go along on such a grand scheme of price fixing (and a criminal conspiracy at that) seems to be to grand to be plausible.
Not "price fixing" as explained to me...but just sitting on inventory, hoarding it then releasing it slowly and creating an artificial or at least exaggerated "demand", when it really could be or have been much less so, and thus driving up prices because folks are just glad to get ammo at almost ANY $$$.
That is what seemed to be happening in my area, and we have tons of gun stores, large outlets and ranges.
I really don't know, but it was what the guys at my local Big Box sportsman-bass-like store said???
That depends on which "pipeline" you are referring to...
...Yep for guns, a bit...but all dried up for ammo now?
What good are the guns with no ammo to shoot.
On that point, I have a question...
I have been TOLD, by a number of sources that have never in the past steered me wrong...that this whole ammo shortage thing is phony, bogus, "manufactured" by the "middlemen"...those "distributers" , in between the manufacturer & the retailer...in order to drive up prices, they "hoard"...then release in small amounts...fake supply & demand.
Sounds about correct, I mean, the oil / gasoline industry has been doing that for decades!
What say you?
Why don't the BIG manufacturers like Hornady, Remington Winchester & Federal, as well as the big "retailers" just tell these guys to "knock it off"...?
These ammo companies are cranking out the ammo faster than ever...but NONE to be had in stores or online?
REALLY, come on now ?
Not sure about your theory. Everybody in the supply chain is driven by profit, from mfg to retailer, with the distributors and jobbers in between.
For major distributors to hold back inventory would be too high risk with the already effected state bans beginning, along with other possible bans in the future. Plus the logistics of simply storing, inventorying, removing and replacing in the supply stream, would be costly, reducing overall profit margin. Today's prevelant business model is to hold inventory for the very least amount of time (I can't remember the name for that business model, but I'm sure one of our MBA's will provide it shortly), handle it (inventory and shipping) the least amount possible and move it before it becomes a taxable asset.
At one of the stores I mentioned, I saw Federal M855 in the 420 ammo cans later the same week. Didn't last, between me and local LEO's, but at least they had a few. Same with .22 ammo, bought 500 rds of Stingers and 480 rds of Federal Target same place as 5.56, same purchase.
Not sure about your theory. Everybody in the supply chain is driven by profit, from mfg to retailer, with the distributors and jobbers in between.
For major distributors to hold back inventory would be too high risk with the already effected state bans beginning, along with other possible bans in the future. Plus the logistics of simply storing, inventorying, removing and replacing in the supply stream, would be costly, reducing overall profit margin. Today's prevelant business model is to hold inventory for the very least amount of time (I can't remember the name for that business model, but I'm sure one of our MBA's will provide it shortly), handle it (inventory and shipping) the least amount possible and move it before it becomes a taxable asset.
At one of the stores I mentioned, I saw Federal M855 in the 420 ammo cans later the same week. Didn't last, between me and local LEO's, but at least they had a few. Same with .22 ammo, bought 500 rds of Stingers and 480 rds of Federal Target same place as 5.56, same purchase.
NOT "my theory"...theirs, just took 'em at their word, 'cause they have to deal with these guys all the time.
Midway used to be my go-to online, but they just can't seem to get anything (the good stuff) anymore...and NOT cheaper-but-just-dirt-bags...has taken advantage of this to the hilt...never again with them, they should be run out of Texas...better places there, like AmmoToGo
and NOT cheaper-but-just-dirt-bags...has taken advantage of this to the hilt...never again with them, they should be run out of Texas...better places there, like AmmoToGo
Sorry, didn't mean to tag you with the theory.
I agree, CTD has seen my last $$$, they were a place I'd order select stuff from 4 or 5 times a year, no more. I don't know of a major retailer who was more opportunistic and less customer relations friendly during the Great Shooting Sports Scare of 2012 than CTD.
WHERE ARE THE DAMN HI-POWER MAGS?!? :angry:
Once I can find 15rd mecgars for under $30 I will be pleased. Saturday at the Melbourne gun-show the guy at the "CLIPS" booth was trying to get $55(mecgars- not mousetrap brownings) for them. The lowest I saw inside was $45. Yeah right.
cthompson36
04-01-13, 19:51
in indiana I've been looking for .22lr and .223 for months and have barely gotten anything. its still pretty bad here haha
I should try and find the post on our local backpages from a wal-mart employee - who works in the supply room. If you all are interested I will go look for it, but the gist is that people are waiting outside wal-marts and hounding the drivers of the trucks...screw it. Here's the article, and I believe him.
http://phoenix.backpage.com/SportsEquipForSale/9999-walmart-employees-quick-info-for-any-of-you-in-the-dark/22061403
That depends on which "pipeline" you are referring to...
...Yep for guns, a bit...but all dried up for ammo now?
What good are the guns with no ammo to shoot.
On that point, I have a question...
I have been TOLD, by a number of sources that have never in the past steered me wrong...that this whole ammo shortage thing is phony, bogus, "manufactured" by the "middlemen"...those "distributers" , in between the manufacturer & the retailer...in order to drive up prices, they "hoard"...then release in small amounts...fake supply & demand.
Sounds about correct, I mean, the oil / gasoline industry has been doing that for decades!
What say you?
Why don't the BIG manufacturers like Hornady, Remington Winchester & Federal, as well as the big "retailers" just tell these guys to "knock it off"...?
These ammo companies are cranking out the ammo faster than ever...but NONE to be had in stores or online?
REALLY, come on now ?
Not a chance.
For starters that would be highly illegal and could get them into serious trouble.
Besides, from a practical standpoint, there are too many of them and all it would take is one to release a whole bunch and REALLY cash in while the getting is good to break it wide open
One local gun shop has had over 15 AR's in stock any given day for the last 2 weeks most under $999, also have a few DD in stock. Another local gun shop has 13 stripped lowers in stock (Aero and PSA) for pretty good prices, they also have complete Core 15 and stag LPK's in stock. The other local gun shop has plenty of 7.62x39 and they are getting in PMC Xtac 5.56 and Remington .223 fairly regularly.
The Walmart shelves are still pretty bare, but the vultures seem to be slowing down. I have managed to pick up 900 rounds of Federal .223 100 round value packs on 3 different trips in the last month. I passed on the Tulammo spam cans. 7.62x39 seems to be sitting on the shelves at the Walmart's around my area for 2 or 3 days now.
The product is out there. Its just the luck of the draw who gets their shipments at any given time and ultimately how many people are waiting for the product. The higher the gun owner populous in your area, the more likely the shelves will stay bare.
What a pretty sight this was! I apologize for the glare from the glass and carpet and the shoddy camera phone pic!
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f249/govsftbll76/IMG_2213_zps56b22b6f.jpg
flyfishnevada
04-01-13, 23:38
Not a chance.
For starters that would be highly illegal and could get them into serious trouble.
Besides, from a practical standpoint, there are too many of them and all it would take is one to release a whole bunch and REALLY cash in while the getting is good to break it wide open
Exactly. Usually things work like that in reverse. It's not all the businesses getting together to limit supply to raise prices, its all the businesses producing as much as possible at the lowest price possible to get a bigger share of the market. There's no money in holding back supply. Why do you think, Amazon, Wal-Mart, Costco, Cabela's, etc. are taking over the world. Tons of product at low prices. Poor selection at high prices is called going out of business.
The only ammo I can find locally is 12 gauge and .45 auto. There is no 5.56/9mm, to be found.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
I'd be thrilled to find some .22 locally. :suicide2:
Exactly. Usually things work like that in reverse. It's not all the businesses getting together to limit supply to raise prices, its all the businesses producing as much as possible at the lowest price possible to get a bigger share of the market. There's no money in holding back supply. Why do you think, Amazon, Wal-Mart, Costco, Cabela's, etc. are taking over the world. Tons of product at low prices. Poor selection at high prices is called going out of business.
Ok...guys, very good responses...the voices of reason:happy:
Perhaps I should have considered the sources, young gun store yahoos & armchair experts...?
I am getting a bit jaded, perhaps, and never was before...but with Osama, Biden, Feinstein, Reid, Bloomberg, Cuomo and cohorts...not hard to do...these talk out of both side of their mouths, or flat out LIE.
They are dangerous Americans who believe our founding fathers & framers of the Constitution & Bill of Rights were in error and they are not "relevant" any longer for our society.:nono:
:nono:They have got to go...and We the People have to do our part to vote-them-out and ALL who conspire & support them and their nefarious ways.
Write ALL your local, State & Federal reps...don't become lethargic & complacent...the opposition is tenacious & vigilant and a growing minority who, if we are not matching their efforts, can become the majority, real soon!
Sorry to get preachy, but this is serious this time, and NOT going away easily, for we have a new breed of "rulers",(or so they believe):big_boss: the most dangerous administration in U.S.A. history.
I saw a Colt 6940 in the case @ the local wally world last week and walked out with 1000rds of 9mm late night. $230 for the 9, $1399 for the 6940. The ammo has always been flowing into Walmart, people have just gotten real good at getting at it at weird hours or the employees were hoarding it. SG managers and the stocking people were on to the fact they could make a good deal of cash hocking it online........
That $1399 was the list price on my 6940 when I bought it for $1180 in Feb '12 (had a 20% off coupon)....so that's a great sign...a normal price!
Exactly. Usually things work like that in reverse. It's not all the businesses getting together to limit supply to raise prices, its all the businesses producing as much as possible at the lowest price possible to get a bigger share of the market. There's no money in holding back supply. Why do you think, Amazon, Wal-Mart, Costco, Cabela's, etc. are taking over the world. Tons of product at low prices. Poor selection at high prices is called going out of business.
Your analysis discounts expectations. For example, anyone who sold any firearms part prior to sandy hook knows that if they waited just a bit longer, they might have tripled of more their sell price (not asking price, but what some yahoo would pay for it). Of course, none of us saw it coming. From a dealer's perspective, it pays in a time of panic to only release a small part of their inventory at a time in order to not flood his own market. Indeed, if the dealer over commits and buys too much at the peak of the panic then he could be stuck with inventory he can't sell, thereby taking a loss that can only be partially recouped with lower prices.
My whole point in all of this is that a dealer, by virtue of their FFL, has relatively exclusive access to the supply of serialized firearms. They have an incentive to speculate on the panic and are in a position to take advantage of non-FFL holders. The FFL gives a monopoly of sorts.
If the FFL/dealer expects everything to be bought at higher prices the closer a ban is to take effect, then he loses money on each sale he makes today; he would make more tomorrow. Thus, he can slowly trickle out his inventory in order to get the highest price.
It's pretty simple economics, really.
You're assuming that the dealer has capital that can be tied up in inventory for an indefinite period of time. Many businesses don't...
The only "ammo conspiracy" is all the "imminent collapse of civilization" fear-mongering coming from the talkshow kings and the folks building ammo stores in the tens and hundreds of thousands of rounds.
Maybe the collapse of civilization IS imminent, but I suggest mixing in some long-term food stores with that 250k rounds of 22LR stowed in your extra bedroom.
ScatmanCrothers
04-02-13, 15:08
Not a chance.
For starters that would be highly illegal and could get them into serious trouble. Besides, from a practical standpoint, there are too many of them and all it would take is one to release a whole bunch and REALLY cash in while the getting is good to break it wide open
Not that I think this is the case, but how and with who?
If distributors have been willing to fork over the cash to manufacturers to buy as much product as possible only to put it away and wait for demand to peak to release it, then what have they done wrong? It's business. They could have made a business decision to tie up capital in an attempt to maximize profit, but that wouldn't make it illegal. They aren't in contract with consumers. Manufacturers aren't concerned with the final destination of their product once it's been sold and delivered.
It's far fetched, but well within the rights of business. Could it hurt their relationship with their suppliers? Indeed. Would it land them in a court room? Meh.
Your analysis discounts expectations. For example, anyone who sold any firearms part prior to sandy hook knows that if they waited just a bit longer, they might have tripled of more their sell price (not asking price, but what some yahoo would pay for it). Of course, none of us saw it coming. From a dealer's perspective, it pays in a time of panic to only release a small part of their inventory at a time in order to not flood his own market. Indeed, if the dealer over commits and buys too much at the peak of the panic then he could be stuck with inventory he can't sell, thereby taking a loss that can only be partially recouped with lower prices.
My whole point in all of this is that a dealer, by virtue of their FFL, has relatively exclusive access to the supply of serialized firearms. They have an incentive to speculate on the panic and are in a position to take advantage of non-FFL holders. The FFL gives a monopoly of sorts.
If the FFL/dealer expects everything to be bought at higher prices the closer a ban is to take effect, then he loses money on each sale he makes today; he would make more tomorrow. Thus, he can slowly trickle out his inventory in order to get the highest price.
It's pretty simple economics, really.
Ok, good point, and something along those lines made me think it possible, at 1st, that intentional hoarding, or at the very least, calculated "holding" back of inventory to control the market & prices was going on, especially from the middlemen?
Who knows...bottom line for me is it is unfortunate that the America I grew up in ( I turn 60 this year...) and that my generation & Dad's (also ALL before) fought & died for...is GONE, and has been for some time...SADLY, the BRAVE & PATRIOTIC men & women who have and are serving in Desert Storm, Iraqi Freedom & Afghanistan are fighting for what's left of our once great nation, the "ideal" of what was.
NOT to diminish their service one iota, one cannot control what era they are born into and their service is JUST as patriotic & brave as any others...it may be the only America they know and STILL worth fighting for...but unless ALL of us, NOT ONLY soldiers fighting enemies abroad...stand up to our enemies within, to maintain our FREEDOMS and do our part to help preserve the U.S. Constitution & Bill of Rights, we are doomed !
The eroding of our Rights & Freedoms...brainwashing of the masses that the "nanny state" knows best, "no need to work hard, take risks, raise yourself up...vote for us and get free stuff"...FREE, huh, lol., is what will destroy our Nation, from within....just like the Romans and ALL world powers that were unmatched & untouchable militarily...all before us fell to denigration within, moral decay, decline of faith & family, etc..
The floods of new immigrants from long-time aforementioned nanny state-entitlement governments, that know nothing of what that will bring...and have never enjoyed the kind of FREEDOM once guaranteed by such as the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th Amendments and the whole of our founding documents...are what these liberal snake-in-the-grass politicians are betting on...to secure their party's future power.
Let your voice be heard, unrelenting...until this slippery slope is halted & reversed...until PATRIOTS are the majority in our "ELECTED public SERVANTS".
Instead, those we have now are acting like "self-appointed" public serpents.
Your analysis discounts expectations. For example, anyone who sold any firearms part prior to sandy hook knows that if they waited just a bit longer, they might have tripled of more their sell price (not asking price, but what some yahoo would pay for it). Of course, none of us saw it coming. From a dealer's perspective, it pays in a time of panic to only release a small part of their inventory at a time in order to not flood his own market. Indeed, if the dealer over commits and buys too much at the peak of the panic then he could be stuck with inventory he can't sell, thereby taking a loss that can only be partially recouped with lower prices.
My whole point in all of this is that a dealer, by virtue of their FFL, has relatively exclusive access to the supply of serialized firearms. They have an incentive to speculate on the panic and are in a position to take advantage of non-FFL holders. The FFL gives a monopoly of sorts.
If the FFL/dealer expects everything to be bought at higher prices the closer a ban is to take effect, then he loses money on each sale he makes today; he would make more tomorrow. Thus, he can slowly trickle out his inventory in order to get the highest price.
It's pretty simple economics, really.
With the internet for so many sales there is no such thing as a single dealer flooding their market. Let's say it was actually possible for a dealer to "flood" their own market while making a huge profit. That's just a whole bunch of profit!
Anybody who held onto stuff in January hoping prices would go higher is, well, not a very intelligent person IMO.
Seriously. NOT selling when PMAGs were going for $100 and 6920's were going for $2,500, hoping to sell later for even more, would have been just plain stupid.
But I'm pretty big on a 'bird in the hand' way of thinking, and I've been saying for 5 years or so that there would be no national ban on magazine capacity or weapon types, so perhaps the fact that I have, so far, been correct, makes the correct decisions seem that much more obvious to me
Not that I think this is the case, but how and with who?
If distributors have been willing to fork over the cash to manufacturers to buy as much product as possible only to put it away and wait for demand to peak to release it, then what have they done wrong? It's business. They could have made a business decision to tie up capital in an attempt to maximize profit, but that wouldn't make it illegal. They aren't in contract with consumers. Manufacturers aren't concerned with the final destination of their product once it's been sold and delivered.
It's far fetched, but well within the rights of business. Could it hurt their relationship with their suppliers? Indeed. Would it land them in a court room? Meh.
I don't see how this strategy would work unless they all raised their prices, together, on the product they were releasing. Smells of conspiracy/price fixing from a mile away, but that's not my area of expertise by any stretch
This conversation is drifting into price fixing and a network of dealers conspiring to create the restricted supply of arms and ammo. Something posters can't agree upon conceptually.
So, perhaps some should join a local militia and see if you can figure out who is the undercover FBI Agent and ask him to explain supply side economics vs Keynesian economics. :haha:
I'll be happy when I can get some powder and choice primers.
ask him to explain supply side economics vs Keynesian economics. :haha:
I must have missed something. What of this could relate to Keynes? Maybe Napolitano's "infrastructure spending" in buying up billions of rounds of ammo?
I must have missed something. What of this could relate to Keynes? Maybe Napolitano's "infrastructure spending" in buying up billions of rounds of ammo?
Just trying to add a little levity to this thread. It has about run its course, I believe.
Just trying to add a little levity to this thread. It has about run its course, I believe.
For what it's worth I thought it was funny. Good laugh.
I must have missed something. What of this could relate to Keynes? Maybe Napolitano's "infrastructure spending" in buying up billions of rounds of ammo?
Some interesting thoughts & excerpts:
"The department of homeland security should be put on the boycott list as well,(by ammo companies) or at least be put on restrictions. The fact that I can only by 2 boxes of 9mm ammo at a time (when I can find it) because the feds are buying millions of rounds of it dosent sit well with me and makes me wonder what they're up to."
"It's soft gun control...without ammo, your firearm is an expensive paper weight."
This, above, pretty much nails it...they have found a way to win, the "pipeline", is far, far from opening up, and we are not even close to pre-election year / pre-2012 mass shooting normalcy.
"What's more disturbing is the department of homeland security has no armed force. They are just around to coordinate different agencies, like the FBI, ATF, immigration, and other such agencies. Why do they need 1. something billion rounds of ammo, armored trucks, and M4's? Want to talk about conspiracies. There is something rotten happening with the government that needs to be addressed before all out war happens within the states. Can you say revolution 2.0?"
"with all the recent purchases i think the number is closer to 2.4 billion, many of which are hollow point. JHP rounds are banned under the Hague convention for use in warfare, furthermore I've never met a single shooter who uses self-defense rounds for "training" b/c 1) it's too expensive 2) it's not practical for range applications. so can anyone please tell me what's the point of such a large purchase/waste of tax-dollars?"
I have a feeling...whatever legislature they can or cannot pass...whatever rights or laws they can find a way to abuse, none of it matters if they know they can outspend us with our OWN taxpayer $$$, the "revenue" We The People allow them to collect...they will continue to demand preferential buying status from the ammo companies, and buy it all up and our guns will be useless without ammo. There is no end to how much they can buy...buy it ALL up as fast a s Hornady, Federal, Winchester and the like can make it...doubt it???
It is happening right now.
Can we go online or anywhere and buy thousand round cases of anything at will, like before...perhaps never again!
I have had absolutely no doubt that the purchase of billions of rounds of hollow point ammo as a "bulk purchase of training ammo" was absolute and utter bullshit released in place of the truth.
That said, at a point, their ability to purchase really does taper off. That money has to come from somewhere and without continued approval of their funding (which they won't get if they can't explain their spending) the tap will eventually be shut.
I have had absolutely no doubt that the purchase of billions of rounds of hollow point ammo as a "bulk purchase of training ammo" was absolute and utter bullshit released in place of the truth.
That said, at a point, their ability to purchase really does taper off. That money has to come from somewhere and without continued approval of their funding (which they won't get if they can't explain their spending) the tap will eventually be shut.
"the tap will eventually be shut"
I sincerely hope you are correct...'cause if they continue at this rate, we are in deep, deep doo-doo:help:
Some interesting thoughts & excerpts:
"The department of homeland security should be put on the boycott list as well,(by ammo companies) or at least be put on restrictions. The fact that I can only by 2 boxes of 9mm ammo at a time (when I can find it) because the feds are buying millions of rounds of it dosent sit well with me and makes me wonder what they're up to."
"It's soft gun control...without ammo, your firearm is an expensive paper weight."
This, above, pretty much nails it...they have found a way to win, the "pipeline", is far, far from opening up, and we are not even close to pre-election year / pre-2012 mass shooting normalcy.
"What's more disturbing is the department of homeland security has no armed force. They are just around to coordinate different agencies, like the FBI, ATF, immigration, and other such agencies. Why do they need 1. something billion rounds of ammo, armored trucks, and M4's? Want to talk about conspiracies. There is something rotten happening with the government that needs to be addressed before all out war happens within the states. Can you say revolution 2.0?"
"with all the recent purchases i think the number is closer to 2.4 billion, many of which are hollow point. JHP rounds are banned under the Hague convention for use in warfare, furthermore I've never met a single shooter who uses self-defense rounds for "training" b/c 1) it's too expensive 2) it's not practical for range applications. so can anyone please tell me what's the point of such a large purchase/waste of tax-dollars?"
I have a feeling...whatever legislature they can or cannot pass...whatever rights or laws they can find a way to abuse, none of it matters if they know they can outspend us with our OWN taxpayer $$$, the "revenue" We The People allow them to collect...they will continue to demand preferential buying status from the ammo companies, and buy it all up and our guns will be useless without ammo. There is no end to how much they can buy...buy it ALL up as fast a s Hornady, Federal, Winchester and the like can make it...doubt it???
It is happening right now.
Can we go online or anywhere and buy thousand round cases of anything at will, like before...perhaps never again!
Www.ammoman.com
1000 rd cases
http://www.ammoman.com/556x45mm-pmc-x-tac-green-tip-nato-62-grain-full-metal-jacket
500 rds cases -
http://www.ammoman.com/223-remington-42-grain-frangible-by-federal-bc223nt5
750 rd cases -
http://www.ammoman.com/556x45-62-grain-danish-by-ama
Yes, you can go on line and buy. Not at pre-panic prices, but there is ammo out there
Those are now out of stock with the exception of the $1+ a round frangible projectiles. The ammo is out there and then gone thirty seconds later. It's will calm down, but it will be a while.
Wait, people still think the government is buying duty ammo to shoot us? Is this Infowars or M4carbine?
Those are now out of stock with the exception of the $1+ a round frangible projectiles. The ammo is out there and then gone thirty seconds later. It's will calm down, but it will be a while.
Stormin,
True it comes and goes quickly, sometimes it's a matter of right time, right place. But ammo is out there, not at .28 a round, but it is becoming more available.
Those are now out of stock with the exception of the $1+ a round frangible projectiles. The ammo is out there and then gone thirty seconds later. It's will calm down, but it will be a while.
First link for 1k had 123 cases available right now. 556 green tip at 70 cents delivered.
Yes, but it was sold out last night after you posted it. It will probably sell through again today. Not that it's a bad thing, it simply is the situation right now.
Wait, people still think the government is buying duty ammo to shoot us? Is this Infowars or M4carbine?
No, the allegation is that they're purchasing it to limit the supply available to the general public rather than as "training rounds" or something similar. Simply speculation based upon the observation that I've never found my range bag (or the range bag of anyone I've shot with) full of JHP pistol rounds. Even the wealthiest guys in my circle of friends fire copper jacketed solids at the range. Supplies have been so limited that various LE agencies have had trouble buying ammo.
That said, as I've already posted, things are looking up. Rifles, parts, and ammo all appear to be back in stock at various times vs a couple of months ago.
No, the allegation is that they're purchasing it to limit the supply available to the general public rather than as "training rounds" or something similar. Simply speculation based upon the observation that I've never found my range bag (or the range bag of anyone I've shot with) full of JHP pistol rounds. Even the wealthiest guys in my circle of friends fire copper jacketed solids at the range. Supplies have been so limited that various LE agencies have had trouble buying ammo.
That said, as I've already posted, things are looking up. Rifles, parts, and ammo all appear to be back in stock at various times vs a couple of months ago.
Wait... I get the rumors confused... I thought they were buying up billions of rounds of ammo to dump it on the market during the coming glut and send all the ammo manufacturers into bankruptcy so the federales could bail them out and control the production and distribution of all ammunition... :jester:
That actually made me LOL
Stormin, many police agencies, mine included, use up their carry ammo in yearly quals, and in between, use ball ammo for quals and practice. Some use carry ammo exclusively. It's because of liability issues in court. Plus, they are using tax money, not their own.
Www.ammoman.com
1000 rd cases
http://www.ammoman.com/556x45mm-pmc-x-tac-green-tip-nato-62-grain-full-metal-jacket
500 rds cases -
http://www.ammoman.com/223-remington-42-grain-frangible-by-federal-bc223nt5
750 rd cases -
http://www.ammoman.com/556x45-62-grain-danish-by-ama
Yes, you can go on line and buy. Not at pre-panic prices, but there is ammo out there
1st and 2nd in stock and available as of 1815 hrs, CDST.
Lovely. I'll snap some up when it's not 70¢ a round.
I've got .22LR's, .45acp's and 5.56's and hardly any ammo for any of them!
All the shops around here are loaded with quality AR's and pistols but no freaking ammo! :(
Funny how different things are from state to state... There is a good amount of ammo on the shelves around here, but it is still pricey. If I "need" it I can get it, but it is too expensive to stock up right now.
Funny how different things are from state to state... There is a good amount of ammo on the shelves around here, but it is still pricey. If I "needed" it I can, but it is too expensive to stock up right now.
My LGS has had Prvi M193 for $12.99/20 (or about that) and $600/1k for awhile now.
Assuming they still do. THey did for a couple of weeks at least last I checked.
Apparently some other people in other locations are willing to pay $700/1k to order it, which certainly seems to indicate that they don't have the same local availability that we do here.
SIG 556 SWAT new, in the rack $1579.00.
My LGS has had Prvi M193 for $12.99/20 (or about that) and $600/1k for awhile now.
Assuming they still do. THey did for a couple of weeks at least last I checked.
Apparently some other people in other locations are willing to pay $700/1k to order it, which certainly seems to indicate that they don't have the same local availability that we do here.
That's a good sign... I know it's just easy to limit yourself to looking online. But I went in to an LGS here in town and they had a lot of stuff that you'd think was impossible to find... and at reasonable prices.
I picked up a 22 round Glock 40 cal mag that I passed on online for 75% of the online price.
The same happens here with a bit of regularity. You can get 5.56 locally at $11.99 a box, you just have to be willing to buy two boxes each time you go and that's it... :D
If you're the patient type, it's not a bad way to go.
No, the allegation is that they're purchasing it to limit the supply available to the general public rather than as "training rounds" or something similar. Simply speculation based upon the observation that I've never found my range bag (or the range bag of anyone I've shot with) full of JHP pistol rounds. Even the wealthiest guys in my circle of friends fire copper jacketed solids at the range. Supplies have been so limited that various LE agencies have had trouble buying ammo.
That said, as I've already posted, things are looking up. Rifles, parts, and ammo all appear to be back in stock at various times vs a couple of months ago.
I see no issue training with the ammo you will have to use in the field. If I could afford it I would.
It allows you to see if the ammo is reliable in your firearm and get a sense of the recoil impulse you can expect.
Not necessarily an issue of cost, but one of waste. If I am going to run through 500 rounds of ammo during a few hours at the range should I do it at a cost of $1 per pull of the trigger or 50¢?
Am I going to be that much better off on the expectation of recoil and follow up sight picture with the ammo that costs twice as much?
Do I receive twice the benefit at twice the cost?
I can pour Margaux into a bolognese, but it's not going to make the sauce $400 better.
I will run defensive ammo to test accuracy and reliability. To make sure that I am going to be able to place fast shots and follow up shots. But I won't run the stuff all day simply because my wallet wouldn't be burdened by the expense.
Running defensive ammo for practice is just lighting cash on fire. The recoil argument is absurd.
Running defensive ammo for practice is just lighting cash on fire. The recoil argument is absurd.
Then why do people advocate training with your carry load?
No one I've ever been around preached to shoot the good shit...shoot 38's out of my 640...when leaving the 357 goes back in (yes I've shot the 357 b4...it's my bug and wedding piece :D)
And I'll be damned if I'll shoot my HST out of my G17's...head scratching stuff if ya ask me.
and the cheapest 223 b4 556 out of my rifles...same is practiced on the job. We take out all side piece ammo and rifle tap ammo out and do the range w/ cheap stuff.
Just doesn't make sense
Then why do people advocate training with your carry load?
No one worthwhile does.
Function test your carry load before carrying it, sure. But don't train with it. That's dumb.
Then why do people advocate training with your carry load?
Probably old spill over habits from the 1911 days where there is a high probability of ammo sensitivity...
As pistols have evolved, you can pretty much guarantee that a modern gun will run with Gold Dots or whatever.
If it makes a guy feel better to test a box, by all means. I just shoot the carry ammo when I rotate it out after a year or so.
JBecker 72
04-04-13, 15:24
Then why do people advocate training with your carry load?
I don't, however I do make sure my carry load will function in my carry gun.
Probably old spill over habits from the 1911 days where there is a high probability of ammo sensitivity...
As pistols have evolved, you can pretty much guarantee that a modern gun will run with Gold Dots or whatever.
If it makes a guy feel better to test a box, by all means. I just shoot the carry ammo when I rotate it out after a year or so.
It is always a good idea to test fire first, especially when talking about a JHP in a semi automatic pistol. Nothing is guaranteed, even if you buy a quality, known-good brand of semi auto and it runs perfectly on FMJ. Still, IMO and IME, a very good idea to test at least a box (50 rounds) of your JHP before trusting your life to it.
This week, between 3 stores, I've seen or been already to - M4 Colt 6920 in black or FDE aT $1147.00, 3 SW MP15 at $1049 and one Bushy carbon at $797
I think that the pipeline is beginning to open up
Action Pawn in Killeen was advertising Colt 6920s for $1299 yesterday. This time last month they were selling Bushmasters for $2000+. I concur that things are slowly improving. Now where is the ammo?
If everyone and their grandma stops buying ammo at these inflated prices than maybe the selves will fill up again and the prices will drop...
If everyone and their grandma stops buying ammo at these inflated prices than maybe the selves will fill up again and the prices will drop...
People want ammo. I don't see that changing.
no...3/4 of the current market didn't stock up on squat...the rumors of taxation, bans and overall panic fueled by the doom shows too are/is what's responsible.
I have friends asking where to score ammo who last year not once took me up on range offers...
Grand58742
04-04-13, 17:26
If everyone and their grandma stops buying ammo at these inflated prices than maybe the selves will fill up again and the prices will drop...
Prices will continue to be high until the silly folks stop buying at the prices because credit card bills will come due and they start to realize they are getting jacked. Eventually momma will see a credit card bill of the $2000 DPMS they bought and another $1000 in M193 spec ammo and another $500 in magazines and give husband the evil eye even though "honey, they could be banned." My guess is simple economics will force the market to drop slowly as the two weekends a year shooters will have a few hundred rounds in the closet and be content with that.
Those that know better that stocked up before the madness will end up not paying the prices and you'll see a slowing of the market as distributors/dealers can't move the ammo at the prices they are currently selling at and slowly lower prices. Most of the people that stocked up in advance are relatively comfortable on reduced firing schedules but are content to sit tight until prices drop. I personally have no intention of feeding the beast and will wait for a case of 193/855 spec to go under $400 before looking to buy again. And I sure as hell will not ending up paying more than $300 for a case of Russian animal brand.
Either way, as prices start dropping, the ammo will still not be there since the people that waited will start buying again and the shortage will continue. I'd say it'll be at least six months to a year before dealers/distributors have levels that are sustainable and the market completely slows. As for pre-panic pricing? Long time I feel
My thoughts on a couple of points -
Why shoot / train with your high $ SD loads?
To truly test reliability (function) and to reduce one area of liability questioning, should you ever have to use said ammo for its intended purpose. Note I said REDUCE and ONE AREA. I fully understand that there many other areas, techniques and actions that WILL be scrutinized following a OI or SD shooting.
I still fire a minimum of 100 rounds of SD ammo through a dedicated Duty or SD firearm before carrying it.
Okay, so I'm a dinosaur. I still carry a 5" 1911 by choice, too.
Ammo prices -
I have always tried to maintain a minimum level of my "working calibers", since WAY before the scare. And I always try to buy a minimum of 500 rounds anytime I am buying something I regularly use.
Training -
With the reduced availability I have done some things to conserve, because I'm not paying the scare prices. I've modified some drills to run them with dry fire and live fire (3 dry / 2 live, in a 5 drill rep); and I've got sub-caliber trainers of my primary duty / SD firearms.
flyfishnevada
04-04-13, 19:33
If everyone and their grandma stops buying ammo at these inflated prices than maybe the selves will fill up again and the prices will drop...
Agree, ain't gonna happen. That doesn't mean I don't want to send a mass message to the new members over on GB and tell them to stop the madness. 20 cents/rd for .22lr is not a good deal. Half that is twice what you should be paying. Knock it off! :rolleyes:
Agree, ain't gonna happen. That doesn't mean I don't want to send a mass message to the new members over on GB and tell them to stop the madness. 20 cents/rd for .22lr is not a good deal. Half that is twice what you should be paying. Knock it off! :rolleyes:
Will you sell it to them at 10 cents/round?
Or are they just supposed to not buy any ammo?
Warp...if I may
I think you're missing the point...these prices reflect a new buying group who were not there several months ago...dare I say pre November election results.
The new group after all the panic and hysteria of the black gun going extinct flooded the market w/ open wallets not being satisfied w/ the "2 weekends worth of shooting" ammo stash...
...so in a way yes they should buy ammo but cause of their procrastination, the market is busier and pricier.
Seems to me that instead of buying guns and ammo the money should go to a favorite pro 2nd amendment organization so we will be able to own the guns and ammo we now enjoy.
Bass Pro shops in Dania Beach Florida has had a S&W AR15 on the wall since Saturday (April 30), but no ammo. They don't anticipate any major shipments any time soon... Just enough trickling in to keep the scavengers lined up outside before opening on truck day coming back...
Phillygunguy
04-04-13, 22:10
I saw a DD for +$1900 today at a lgs in South Eastern Pa
Plus another place had 1000 rds of 223 pmc for $440, still pricey but they had a better deal on Lake city XM 855 for $240 for the 420 rds can
Warp...if I may
I think you're missing the point...these prices reflect a new buying group who were not there several months ago...dare I say pre November election results.
The new group after all the panic and hysteria of the black gun going extinct flooded the market w/ open wallets not being satisfied w/ the "2 weekends worth of shooting" ammo stash...
...so in a way yes they should buy ammo but cause of their procrastination, the market is busier and pricier.
I think your both on point...but Warp is right that, they wont. Those people you are talking about have no idea what it use to be. All they know is what it is now. So seeing these prices drop, they think the are getting a good deal. Give it time. The novelty will wear down and so will the prices.
The local Walmart here in my small town in Oklahoma actually got a rather large shipment of ammo in today. I also noticed the past two times I've been that they had a Sig .22 cal rifle (552 clone of some sort) and what looked like a BM ar15 on the shelf. First time I've seen any sort of magazine fed weapon on the shelf since December. Hopefully it really is getting back to normal..I guess we'll see..
flyfishnevada
04-04-13, 23:08
Warp...if I may
I think you're missing the point...these prices reflect a new buying group who were not there several months ago...dare I say pre November election results.
The new group after all the panic and hysteria of the black gun going extinct flooded the market w/ open wallets not being satisfied w/ the "2 weekends worth of shooting" ammo stash...
...so in a way yes they should buy ammo but cause of their procrastination, the market is busier and pricier.
Exactly. I said I want to tell them to knock it off. Heck, I paid .59 cents/rd for most of what I have. I just don't think they know they are overpaying...by a lot. They think this is normal. A little education would go a long way. But I can't do that any more than they will stop buying until their credit cards are all used up. Wishful thinking.
It would be wise to have money on hand and outside a few gunshows during early summer (boating season start) and fall ( school and hunting season start), when they decide to sell and get their money back.
After the first trip through and the traveling dealers offer them $400 for a $1000 rifle they paid $1800 for, which they have decided that they no longer need or that the spouse has drawn the line in the sand about. Might be a chance to buy some firearms and ammo at reasonable prices and help some folks out......
A little education would go a long way. But I can't do that any more than they will stop buying until their credit cards are all used up. Wishful thinking.
A good friend who has just gotten into shooting (pistol guy, not rifles yet) went and bought a beautiful Sig in 9mm... Sends me a text the other day about his LGS having a full shelf of 9mm, and that he bought 5 boxes. He didn't understand why I was complaining about finding ammo. Price he paid: $35.00 per box of 50
They simply don't know that they're paying DOUBLE what they should be, and as long as people continue to buy existing supplies at current prices there won't be a drop.
A good friend who has just gotten into shooting (pistol guy, not rifles yet) went and bought a beautiful Sig in 9mm... Sends me a text the other day about his LGS having a full shelf of 9mm, and that he bought 5 boxes. He didn't understand why I was complaining about finding ammo. Price he paid: $35.00 per box of 50
I want to sell this guy some of my AMMO!!! :p
Straight Shooter
04-05-13, 08:44
About 2 hours ago at WalMart....I scored again, 300 rounds of Federal 55gr FMJ .223 @ $34 a box.
They had a dozen boxes or so of Winchester 555round 22lr @ $23 a box. Was gone in 30 seconds.
Going back in the morning for more.
Sorry...yes, $34 per 100 round box.
About 2 hours ago at WalMart....I scored again, 300 rounds of American Eagle 55gr FMJ .223 @ $34 a box.
They had a dozen boxes or so of Winchester 555round 22lr @ $23 a box. Was gone in 30 seconds.
Going back in the morning for more.
$34 per 20?!!
My LGS has Winchester .223 for $17! I get 2 or 3 every now and again as i don't shoot the AR much until things calm down. Just stocking up for now and hate paying $17 a box. Again someone paying double but I guess depending on where you are, that's the going rate.
Guess I should be thankful.
Rootbrain
$34 for 100 @ Wally World.
Just saw a windham (In the $800 range) and a Colt 6920 ($1097) at our local Walmart. Guy said they have been in the rack for a couple of days now. I went in for some ammo, which their website said was in stock at this store. The guy said there was someone in at 5:30 AM to buy it as it was stocked. This sucks-still no ammo at reasonable prices.
Tog
The Walmart in my town never seems to have ammo when I go in at 4pm, maybe I should start stopping by in the morning before work.:mad:
Straight Shooter
04-05-13, 18:27
We've got rifles everywhere down here. I see Colts, S&W's, all the cheap ar's all over here, NO shortage of rifles at all. Most under $1000. Mags are pretty much everywhere, still about double this time last year, but available. Ammo is nowhere near as scarce as before, but isn't just piled up either. As I & others have said, even WallyWorld has ammo if your in the right place at the right time.
Im buying all the ammo I can, every time I can. I do not want to not be able to g shooting when I want for lack of training ammo. Ive got friends in TN Im gonna start buying for as they are having trouble finding ammo too. I truly wish that those in the affected states could get all they wanted.
This shit is gonna have to come to a head soon, one way or another.
When I can find 9mm at Wal-Mart I'll agree with you but until then I will have to disagree.
Wal-Mart has tones of cheap .30-06.:secret:
Forget the 5.56 / .223 & .308, forget the lining up for 3 boxes...
I am gonna buy up ALL that .30-06...
...and wait for someone to build an AR / M4 in .30-06:dance3:
Wal-Mart has tones of cheap .30-06.:secret:
Forget the 5.56 / .223 & .308, forget the lining up for 3 boxes...
I am gonna buy up ALL that .30-06...
...and wait for someone to build an AR / M4 in .30-06:dance3:
Or buy a couple of DCM Garands!!
Or a BAR and a 1917 GPMG!!!
Or buy a couple of DCM Garands!!
Or a BAR and a 1917 GPMG!!!
Well, yes...ok, but I really like the AR platform, want to keepthings uniform & simple.
BTW, have you seen that new AR in .300WM, can't remember the name or make?
In my local, .300 WM is almost as plentiful & cheap as .30-06...
...not the rifle though:(
Well, yes...ok, but I really like the AR platform, want to keepthings uniform & simple.
BTW, have you seen that new AR in .300WM, can't remember the name or make?
In my local, .300 WM is almost as plentiful & cheap as .30-06...
...not the rifle though:(
Nope, I had not. Your comment caused me to use my google-fu to learn about the NEMO Omen. Could prove very interesting.
I once had a LR precision anti-personnel HB bolt gun in .300WM which wasn't a lot of fun after about 15-20 rds. The Omen might make some change in that.
I got to our local Walmart by 5:00 AM this morning (Astro lab so I was up all night). And yes, there they were, the local flea-market folks alread lined up at the counter. One of them was willing to talk. He had a little over 1K to spend on ammo and has been waiting since 4:00AM. He said the 550 round bricks of 22 will bring him $65 each easily. The other calibers were bringing outrages prices as well. When we found out the shelves would not be stocked until about 7 he just said he would wait. One guy goes over a couple of aisles and gets a lawn chair and brings is over to sit in while he waits. There is now a limit on how much you can buy, but when you have your friends with you the rules are out the door. I wish folks would stop paying his rediculous prices. This is why we can't get anything. This bunch is here every morning.
AR Newby AZ
04-06-13, 13:49
I swing by Walmart at 12:30am after work everyday to peek at their ammo case. They always stock it around midnight and I find .40 and .223 at least once a week. The Scottsdale gun shop I picked up my compact at recently had a wealthy supply of everything except 9mm and .223 reasonably priced.
Or buy a couple of DCM Garands!!
Or a BAR and a 1917 GPMG!!!
Just make sure that WalMart 30.06 is milspec ammo with the proper pressure curve before you put it in a Garand.
Nope, I had not. Your comment caused me to use my google-fu to learn about the NEMO Omen. Could prove very interesting.
I once had a LR precision anti-personnel HB bolt gun in .300WM which wasn't a lot of fun after about 15-20 rds. The Omen might make some change in that.
Yes, that's it...alas, it also retails for $5k +, me thinks?
May be cheaper in the long run, no need to stock up on .300WM, it's always abundant.
It will be interesting to see if this project comes to maturity or if it becomes a long gun version of the Bren Ten. I hope it doesn't, I never like to see innovate firearms fail, if they're quality built and offer something new or improved to the firearms community.
HighDesert
04-06-13, 18:12
Things are looking better...
BCM has had a 16" railed upper in stock for almost a day now and PSA has had a 10-pack of D&H/Magpul in stock since this morning at pre-panic prices. Good signs IMHO.
Just wait until everyone dumps the shit they panic-bought on Gunbroker - patience will be rewarded.
Things are looking better...
BCM has had a 16" railed upper in stock for almost a day now and PSA has had a 10-pack of D&H/Magpul in stock since this morning at pre-panic prices. Good signs IMHO.
Just wait until everyone dumps the shit they panic-bought on Gunbroker - patience will be rewarded.
This is great...but where is all the ammo?
These little dribble allocations of a few boxes that Wal-Mart and some of the big box sporting stores get don't seem to indicate what the large manufacturers are capable of cranking out daily?
And the online suppliers that were ordering hundreds of boxes of each caliber...where is their ammo, should be coming in steady from Federal, Remington, Winchester & Hornady???
If you shop around even a tiny bit, finding good deals on guns isn't the problem now. It's really just the ammo at this point.
If Walmart would adjust their ammo prices to something that more realistically reflects the current market, it would wipe out these ammo-oligarch flea-market d-bags and things would get back to normal a lot quicker.
If you shop around even a tiny bit, finding good deals on guns isn't the problem now. It's really just the ammo at this point.
If Walmart would adjust their ammo prices to something that more realistically reflects the current market, it would wipe out these ammo-oligarch flea-market d-bags and things would get back to normal a lot quicker.
True...but how is a chain dept. store, "discounter" getting ammo, and Midway & NOT Cheaper-just dirt-bags cannot?
True...but how is a chain dept. store, "discounter" getting ammo, and Midway & NOT Cheaper-just dirt-bags cannot?
That's just how Walmart does business with its suppliers. They commit to buying massive amounts of your stuff so they can buy it at the absolute lowest prices and if you can't live up to your commitments, they'll kick you to the curb and bring in someone who can.
I would love to know how Walmart's ammo buys of Winchester White Box, Federal, etc. compare in scale to the other major vendors.
Not seeing any normalency around here yet.
I saw a Colt 6940 in the case @ the local wally world last week and walked out with 1000rds of 9mm late night. $230 for the 9, $1399 for the 6940. The ammo has always been flowing into Walmart, people have just gotten real good at getting at it at weird hours or the employees were hoarding it. SG managers and the stocking people were on to the fact they could make a good deal of cash hocking it online........
With Wal-Mart limiting consumers to 3 boxes per customer nation wide and you claiming to walk out with 1000 rounds, and the illegal activities you are accusing WalMart employees of committing, can you substantiate these claims?
With Wal-Mart limiting consumers to 3 boxes per customer nation wide and you claiming to walk out with 1000 rounds, and the illegal activities you are accusing WalMart employees of committing, can you substantiate these claims?
+1...I cannot get more than 3 there, and only one if it is 250 rnd box?
I do not want to "hoard"...am not afraid of any impending apocalypse, just want to continue shooting a lot!
talaananthes
04-06-13, 23:36
Is it illegal for the Walmart employees to buy it all themselves before any hits the shelves? That doesn't sound illegal to me, as long as it's ammo we're talking about. Dubious ethically, but legally?
Is it illegal for the Walmart employees to buy it all themselves before any hits the shelves? That doesn't sound illegal to me, as long as it's ammo we're talking about. Dubious ethically, but legally?
I suppose that if the "boss" at any given store allows it, what would they care who pays their price(no employee discount)...selling is selling
talaananthes
04-06-13, 23:55
Exactly. And even if they do take an employee discount, well, if that's not against store policy . . . it's not illegal. Even if we may not like it.
I worked at Walmart up until the 4th february. We had to wait in line just like everyone else... BUT we did find out what was on the truck the morning of and when it would drop. Around February 1st, they stopped giving the sporting goods employees the inventory prep lists and putting staggered times on when they put out ammo. Now I am only speaking for store #4223, so I am not sure how other stores do business.
I worked at Walmart up until the 4th february. We had to wait in line just like everyone else... BUT we did find out what was on the truck the morning of and when it would drop. Around February 1st, they stopped giving the sporting goods employees the inventory prep lists and putting staggered times on when they put out ammo. Now I am only speaking for store #4223, so I am not sure how other stores do business.
well, at my closest local WM...they still have the truck manifest, and will even show it to you...so the employees must still have 1st crack, and that may be why so little comes out?
Back on topic a bit...
At a gun show yesterday almost every table had 10+ AR's and there were buckets of $20-$25 pmags throughout the show. The rifle prices were a little high but not as bad as there were 2 months ago. Ammo on the other hand was outragous, PMC bronze was 80 cents a shot.
Well I've found the rules go out the door when it comes to late night. Certain Walmarts leave the ammo exposed on the pallets around when they restock 22:30 - 23:00. This is how to get whole cases, take them up front to the clueless employees. I heard about this trick from some people who had been doing it for months. Sometimes its buried beneath the camping stuff. I've also taken the UPC to the late night stock workers ( I targeted old ladies with Gemini UPC scanners stocking anything but SG stuff) and had them get the ammo out of the back by the case, after hearing about this working on TOS.
As for substantiation
Score 1
3/04 UPC method
lady got it out of the back, said her manager could give a shit less about limits. She's worked there for so long she can "run amok"
note time stamp
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a535/Blastah1/IMG_2121_zps349519ef.jpg
Score 2
3/6
UPC method for .223 just about the same time, different store. I bought a few boxes of 00 buck as well totaling 7 boxes of ammo. Rung out no problem.
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a535/Blastah1/IMG_2130_zpse267fc06.jpg
Score 3 3/28 9mm taken off the pallet.
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a535/Blastah1/IMG_2150_zps13ed947c.jpg
Also these activities are not illegal, they violate store policy that shift mangers choose to enforce or not, or employees choose to learn about or not.
skijunkie55
04-07-13, 14:30
Wish I had all the time in the world to camp out at Walmart and raid their ammo supply :(
I just go after the kid is in bed and after the gym @ 22:30 or 23:00. I have 3 Wally Worlds within 15 minutes of my house.... If anyone wants additional details on the methods I used or where to look shoot me a PM, I'll gladly divulge what I've learned and we can get back to talking about the pipeline, and hopefully shooting/training/practicing. There is a bit of luck involved, and no guarantees, but the more everyone is informed, the more good people of the community get their hands on the ammo and the flea market types no longer score. Hopefully this silly shit is not necessary soon, when the LGS's and other places come back to earth.
:smile:
as a side note
There was a guy on another site that was employing some alternative methods @ Walmart, ( along with more disposable income than a good deal of us have )
http://i45.tinypic.com/23j1gkp.jpg
Now that is crazy......
It will be nice to see when the pipeline does begin functioning, hopefully it will be soon. I'd like to find some more Winchester 62 grain OTM, I'm good on M885 and 64 grain red tracer, plus a small selection of hunting/specialty rounds.
Have plenty of .45/.40/9mm/.38 Spl. Need .357 and .380. Good on low recoil slugs and 00 buck.
I just go after the kid is in bed and after the gym @ 22:30 or 23:00. I have 3 Wally Worlds within 15 minutes of my house.... If anyone wants additional details on the methods I used or where to look shoot me a PM, I'll gladly divulge what I've learned and we can get back to talking about the pipeline, and hopefully shooting/training/practicing. There is a bit of luck involved, and no guarantees, but the more everyone is informed, the more good people of the community get their hands on the ammo and the flea market types no longer score. Hopefully this silly shit is not necessary soon, when the LGS's and other places come back to earth.
:smile:
as a side note
There was a guy on another site that was employing some alternative methods @ Walmart, ( along with more disposable income than a good deal of us have )
http://i45.tinypic.com/23j1gkp.jpg
Now that is crazy......
Roger that...my nights mission is clear, after I am ejected from the room for snoring... 8 hrs., 4 Wallyworlds in a 7 mile raduis:dance3:
Well I've found the rules go out the door when it comes to late night. Certain Walmarts leave the ammo exposed on the pallets around when they restock 22:30 - 23:00. This is how to get whole cases, take them up front to the clueless employees. I heard about this trick from some people who had been doing it for months. Sometimes its buried beneath the camping stuff. I've also taken the UPC to the late night stock workers ( I targeted old ladies with Gemini UPC scanners stocking anything but SG stuff) and had them get the ammo out of the back by the case, after hearing about this working on TOS.
As for substantiation
Score 1
3/04 UPC method
lady got it out of the back, said her manager could give a shit less about limits. She's worked there for so long she can "run amok"
note time stamp
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a535/Blastah1/IMG_2121_zps349519ef.jpg
Score 2
3/6
UPC method for .223 just about the same time, different store. I bought a few boxes of 00 buck as well totaling 7 boxes of ammo. Rung out no problem.
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a535/Blastah1/IMG_2130_zpse267fc06.jpg
Score 3 3/28 9mm taken off the pallet.
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a535/Blastah1/IMG_2150_zps13ed947c.jpg
Also these activities are not illegal, they violate store policy that shift mangers choose to enforce or not, or employees choose to learn about or not.
Thank You. As a GA PI hence the handle gapi, I could not help but ask. I admit I was half way calling BS and half in hopes it was not.
Glad your not thin skinned and own an AR eh?
I wish components would start being available again... :(
That is an impressive haul from WalMart and at 35¢ a round!
I just bought 420 rounds of the Federal m855 green tip for $240.00
They also had Federal 1000rd bulk pack 223..$450
I posted yesterday about the same thing.
Doesn't matter one twit to me if some believe it or not.
Things ARE coming around again. S&W AR's with scope...$999.
Ammo can of Federal M855 green tip, 420 rounds...$333.33.
Beau Coup Gold Dot pistol ammo...$29.99.
Here in Alabama things are showing up on shelves more and more.
Also...as one who despises WalMart, I don't use that store to gage how things in the gun world are, or are not.
That's just me tho.
Another interesting Wally World tip for those looking for stuff there..... the Walmart.com site has recently disabled the ability to search in store inventory for certain items of interest to M4C members including 5.56 ammo, .223 ammo and Colt carbines ( why would you buy any other AR from Walmart? :) ) . Google chrome users can over come this.
Google chrome users, make sure you have a "home store" selected on Walmart.com
Go to the desired ammo or gun, if it comes up "store info not available" go to the "customize and control" google chrome interface ( three horizontal bars )
Scroll down to "tools"
scroll to developer tools. It will open the HTML to the site, make sure you make the tool bar big enough to see whats going on.
In the developer tools you will see a magnifying glass ( inspect element) option in the bottom left corner, click it
Now go to the part of the Walmart page that says store info not available ( the inspect element feature will highlight this) and double click
One of the Html lines will read "div id="Store_MSG"" in it. Click on that. On the right there will be a box that says element style "show none" and the option to un check it. As soon as you uncheck that box the Walmart.com site will go back to normal allowing you to look for what you want within a 50 mile radius.
Picked up a few hundred TulAmmo at a Walmart today, ~$0.27/rd. Some economy 9mm from another retailer, $0.32/rd. Shelves full of 45ACP and 40SW Blazer, and 40SW HST in 20-rd packs.
It's out there. Go look...regularly...and be ready to buy.
Another interesting Wally World tip for those looking for stuff there..... the Walmart.com site has recently disabled the ability to search in store inventory for certain items of interest to M4C members including 5.56 ammo, .223 ammo and Colt carbines ( why would you buy any other AR from Walmart? :) ) . Google chrome users can over come this.
Google chrome users, make sure you have a "home store" selected on Walmart.com
Go to the desired ammo or gun, if it comes up "store info not available" go to the "customize and control" google chrome interface ( three horizontal bars )
Scroll down to "tools"
scroll to developer tools. It will open the HTML to the site, make sure you make the tool bar big enough to see whats going on.
In the developer tools you will see a magnifying glass ( inspect element) option in the bottom left corner, click it
Now go to the part of the Walmart page that says store info not available ( the inspect element feature will highlight this) and double click
One of the Html lines will read "div id="Store_MSG"" in it. Click on that. On the right there will be a box that says element style "show none" and the option to un check it. As soon as you uncheck that box the Walmart.com site will go back to normal allowing you to look for what you want within a 50 mile radius.
Very, VERY slick...however, it also states that the "availability" shown...was updated last on March, 31...good luck with that?
I bet that the ammo shown in the 11 stores within 50 miles (my case, in town-Vegas)...has long sold out of whatever shown!!!
Neat trick, but Probably worthless...?
Failure2Stop
04-07-13, 22:58
Totally works, neat
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Totally works, neat
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Look again...to when the product "availability" was LAST updated...
like a week a ago:confused:
Not gonna be there.
That timestamp hasnt been correct since I've been using their site to get at ammo. :) The on hands should updated in or in near real time no matter what the item ( this is my past experience with the site. Ammo was in the back, site said limited stock, I bought it went OOS within 10 minutes ), the whole thing the Chrome trick is disabling looks to be a facade' some HTML genius came up with to temporarily mask the ability to search the stuff.
ETA if you really believe in the time stamp, check out the Tula 7.62X39 it's occluded, but once you remove the store info thing it's instock update timestamp is from 4/7.
I was starting to get the vibe of this pipeline opening up thing, until today. I have been watching Midway USA (I know they ain't perfect) and had alerts set up for the Daniel defense LKP and auto BCG. Both were set to come into stock today 4/8/2013. Well I logged in at 3:15 am and now the LPK is set to come back into stock 06/25/2014 and the BCG are set for 12/15/2013. I know it's just one supplier and dates are never concrete, but that sucks.
LowSpeedHighDrag
04-08-13, 08:27
Saturday at my LGS I saw a black Colt M4 MOE for $1299 so I bought it.
That timestamp hasnt been correct since I've been using their site to get at ammo. :) The on hands should updated in or in near real time no matter what the item ( this is my past experience with the site. Ammo was in the back, site said limited stock, I bought it went OOS within 10 minutes ), the whole thing the Chrome trick is disabling looks to be a facade' some HTML genius came up with to temporarily mask the ability to search the stuff.
ETA if you really believe in the time stamp, check out the Tula 7.62X39 it's occluded, but once you remove the store info thing it's instock update timestamp is from 4/7.
LOL..leave it to the HTML Coder to find that one! Nice work!
I was starting to get the vibe of this pipeline opening up thing, until today. I have been watching Midway USA (I know they ain't perfect) and had alerts set up for the Daniel defense LKP and auto BCG. Both were set to come into stock today 4/8/2013. Well I logged in at 3:15 am and now the LPK is set to come back into stock 06/25/2014 and the BCG are set for 12/15/2013. I know it's just one supplier and dates are never concrete, but that sucks.
I'm right there with you. I've had a DD BCG on order since 12/28 with Midway. The expected delivery date has always been 4/8, but it's now showing "unknown". Also had a DD handguard on order...showing 12/24/2013 now. Ouch!
LOL..leave it to the HTML Coder to find that one! Nice work!
Too bad the on-line inventory for my local Walmart stores is not accurate. Oh well.
Sometimes they move that date way out and then it comes in a week later. They did not to me with Lancer Mags.
richiecotite
04-08-13, 13:49
Pipeline is opening up*
Only in selected non metropolitan area
@ Split66
Permit me to substantiate also.
I found myself ending a detail on a subject in a Walmart parking lot this AM.
I went inside and scored the only 7 boxes of 5.56 ammo in the case.
The price was more that I wanted to pay but for demo purposes and a bit of Crow to eat, I asked for and received all 7 boxes.
Never seen this Winchester "Target" branded Ammo before. Can anyone tell me about it? I hope to find the Federals next time.
http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r603/2therock/My%20Colt/556_ammo_zps4d389eb9.jpg
Never seen this Winchester "Target" branded Ammo before. Can anyone tell me about it? I
What's the Headstamp? WCC? If so it's probably Q3131 which is the equivalent of XM193.
Box describes the ammo as 5.56mm..... so that'd be my guess.
Straight Shooter
04-08-13, 15:14
That ammo is new to me, as well as the Winchester M-22 .22lr ammo they are selling. I was looking for info on that, too.
Some cellular pics
http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r603/2therock/My%20Colt/winchester_55gr_target_zps7a84c43a.jpghttp://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r603/2therock/My%20Colt/winchester_55gr_target_stamp_zpsd28afb8a.jpghttp://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r603/2therock/My%20Colt/winchester_55gr_target_box_data_zpsd760219f.jpg
http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r603/2therock/My%20Colt/winchester_55gr_target_fps_zpsb82b19d4.jpg
A Walmart close by to where I live raised their price on bulk 22lr (525 rnds) to $95.
I just received two ALG defense ACT LPKs from Brownells that had been on BO since late Jan.
Some cellular pics
http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r603/2therock/My%20Colt/winchester_55gr_target_zps7a84c43a.jpghttp://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r603/2therock/My%20Colt/winchester_55gr_target_stamp_zpsd28afb8a.jpghttp://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r603/2therock/My%20Colt/winchester_55gr_target_box_data_zpsd760219f.jpg
http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r603/2therock/My%20Colt/winchester_55gr_target_fps_zpsb82b19d4.jpg
My local store had a limited amount of this in-stock according to the site very early this morning. I wanted to try and grab some but didn't feel like getting up.
And is it just me, or does that round look like shit?
My local store had a limited amount of this in-stock according to the site very early this morning. I wanted to try and grab some but didn't feel like getting up.
And is it just me, or does that round look like shit?
Oh, now you want it pretty too?
:rolleyes:
Rootbrain
I was starting to get the vibe of this pipeline opening up thing, until today. I have been watching Midway USA (I know they ain't perfect) and had alerts set up for the Daniel defense LKP and auto BCG. Both were set to come into stock today 4/8/2013. Well I logged in at 3:15 am and now the LPK is set to come back into stock 06/25/2014 and the BCG are set for 12/15/2013. I know it's just one supplier and dates are never concrete, but that sucks.
and get this...I have dozens of P.A.'s for ammo...and I am retired and can check my phone / email by the minute if I choose, don't , but can...
...I have missed ammo alerts by 30 minutes down to 10...but today got within 2 minutes and clicked link immedialtly to the 6.8SPC ammo...
GONE !!!
I give up:help:
The crimping on that round doesn't exactly look Kosher.
That timestamp hasnt been correct since I've been using their site to get at ammo. :) The on hands should updated in or in near real time no matter what the item ( this is my past experience with the site. Ammo was in the back, site said limited stock, I bought it went OOS within 10 minutes ), the whole thing the Chrome trick is disabling looks to be a facade' some HTML genius came up with to temporarily mask the ability to search the stuff.
ETA if you really believe in the time stamp, check out the Tula 7.62X39 it's occluded, but once you remove the store info thing it's instock update timestamp is from 4/7.
You are correct, I stand corrected...it WORKS!!!:dance3:
The crimping on that round doesn't exactly look Kosher.
The Wal-Mart "girls"...are reloading & stamping, in the back rooms and boxing with old ammo boxes:D
I was going to say something like that but............
You are correct, I stand corrected...it WORKS!!!:dance3:
Once again huge props! I stopped in, and they were out...after talking to the counter dude, I found out there is about 5 guys that show up at 7 am, and buy everything...they are there all the time. They apparently get the ship arrival date, and basically camp out until it gets in. Then they buy it, and re-sell it on backpage...
I truly hope someone lights their face on fire, and then proceeds to beat it out with chains.
I was having to do it for every item. Were you guys too or did I do something wrong?
Oh, now you want it pretty too?
:rolleyes:
Rootbrain
Yep, and it shouldn't be over .07 cents a round, be loaded on stripper clips and come in a new, mil spec, ammo can, too.
Oh, now you want it pretty too?
:rolleyes:
Rootbrain
Pretty? That barely looks functional.
At that angle and magnification its not getting any justice. I have some PMC that look MUCH better in the hand though.
We will see soon how thy print.
I've seen more firearms, but the ammo situation is still far from acceptable. :(
Straight Shooter
04-09-13, 07:36
Just scored 500 rounds of 9mm at WW a half hour ago.
They had 4, 250 round boxes of 9mm...I got two @ $64 & change apiece. Had 4 Mega Packs of .45ACP...$98 apiece. Plenty of .38/.357...380 everywhere..44Mag...30/30....just a lot of ammo in today.
Another interesting Wally World tip for those looking for stuff there..... the Walmart.com site has recently disabled the ability to search in store inventory for certain items of interest to M4C members including 5.56 ammo, .223 ammo and Colt carbines ( why would you buy any other AR from Walmart? :) ) . Google chrome users can over come this.
Google chrome users, make sure you have a "home store" selected on Walmart.com
Go to the desired ammo or gun, if it comes up "store info not available" go to the "customize and control" google chrome interface ( three horizontal bars )
Scroll down to "tools"
scroll to developer tools. It will open the HTML to the site, make sure you make the tool bar big enough to see whats going on.
In the developer tools you will see a magnifying glass ( inspect element) option in the bottom left corner, click it
Now go to the part of the Walmart page that says store info not available ( the inspect element feature will highlight this) and double click
One of the Html lines will read "div id="Store_MSG"" in it. Click on that. On the right there will be a box that says element style "show none" and the option to un check it. As soon as you uncheck that box the Walmart.com site will go back to normal allowing you to look for what you want within a 50 mile radius.
Well, in reality, no...at least my experience thus far???
In my local, just did a search your way...it showed a Wal-Mart location with a "limited supply", (their wording) of Federal Value Pack .223 / 100 rnds.
Call and NO...they say, expecting shipment in a day or two and know not what???
Date on the store search & info was even updated to TODAY.
Unreliable in reality.
Well, in reality, no...at least my experience thus far???
In my local, just did a search your way...it showed a Wal-Mart location with a "limited supply", (their wording) of Federal Value Pack .223 / 100 rnds.
Call and NO...they say, expecting shipment in a day or two and know not what???
Date on the store search & info was even updated to TODAY.
Unreliable in reality.
And just tried again, another store showed Winchester 5.56 in stock...called and NO...?
Not reliable.
And just tried again, another store showed Winchester 5.56 in stock...called and NO...?
Not reliable.
I only had to chase that rabbit once.
It was funny that when I went to the Walmart that showed Federal 223 in-stock on the website (which it wasn't of course)... there were two people there that were stunned that there was no pistol ammo. The associate gave them a coherent explanation of what has happened over the last 4 months and how they have a band of d-bags that show up and camp out everyday at restocking time and buy up all the ammo before it can even be put on the shelves.
Glad to hear someone mention that at least one Walmart is adjusting .22 ammo up to a price more in-line with the actual market conditions. That's the best way to short-circuit the ammo-oligarch's scheme.
Hmm that sucks. The shenanigan level is high there, and the ammo is sometimes in the back or wierd places so I've done all my work on foot. I ask them to run the UPCs through a handheld scanner and show me the stock via the company stocking system.
I'll see what I can come up with tonight in this area and update. I'm sorry it didnt work out for you.
I only had to chase that rabbit once.
It was funny that when I went to the Walmart that showed Federal 223 in-stock on the website (which it wasn't of course)... there were two people there that were stunned that there was no pistol ammo. The associate gave them a coherent explanation of what has happened over the last 4 months and how they have a band of d-bags that show up and camp out everyday at restocking time and buy up all the ammo before it can even be put on the shelves.
Glad to hear someone mention that at least one Walmart is adjusting .22 ammo up to a price more in-line with the actual market conditions. That's the best way to short-circuit the ammo-oligarch's scheme.
Yup...nothing that shows up with that html trick is actually in stock...
On "paper" yes...not when you get to the store or call.
Walmart aside, the demand is still full retard from online vendors. Like DDm4 said the alert systems arent even fast enough to get you in the door yet for some items. I'm thinking we could really help some people by setting up a hotline. Ammo and magazine seekers anonymous. " have you been shocked by recent events and can't stop buying? " " do you have a 55 gallon drum full of BCGs buried in your yard?" " have you mortgaged your house to G and R tactical?" Call us we can help.......
Hornady .223 came in at PSA for 44 cents a round. I started at 10 boxes, then within three minutes you could not add one to your cart...I kept getting warnings saying they did not have the quanity I wanted until I got to one box, then it said OOS.
This is getting old. My local Wallyworld never has shit, neither does anywhere.
Might was well Join Barry :suicide:
Now, Wolf sold out at AIM in 2 minutes flat.
Hmm that sucks. The shenanigan level is high there, and the ammo is sometimes in the back or wierd places so I've done all my work on foot. I ask them to run the UPCs through a handheld scanner and show me the stock via the company stocking system.
I'll see what I can come up with tonight in this area and update. I'm sorry it didnt work out for you.
No worries... I was curious enough to see if it would work for me since I'm not predisposed to spend any more time in Walmart than absolutely necessary.
Hornady .223 came in at PSA for 44 cents a round. I started at 10 boxes, then within three minutes you could not add one to your cart...I kept getting warnings saying they did not have the quanity I wanted until I got to one box, then it said OOS.
This is getting old. My local Wallyworld never has shit, neither does anywhere.
Might was well Join Barry :suicide:
OK, now doe we see?
Blame it on "retard-mode" panic buying ( unfortunate )...low-life scavenger buyers re-selling on BackPage, etc., and greedy hoarder-preppers, whatever, but between ALL these & Dept. of HLS buying billions for none-exestent security force...Obambindenstein has gotten their wish...no need for "assault" weapon ban...this predictable response along with Government 1st preference buying/hoarding ...has and will continue to dry up the ammo.
Federal, Winchester, Remington, Hornady...would have to quintuple the ability of their output...maybe more, 10x to bring surplus back and/or meet the "new normal" demands.
Not seeing that happen.
Should have by now...?
Hate to sound pessimistic...not that way by nature, really...however, December 2012 Obama's "Ban the AR" / Mags speech...may go down as an historic point in time...
...a watershed moment in history, and new delineation of dispensation, new era marked by B.P. - A.P. (before panic - after panic)
OK, now doe we see?
Blame it on "retard-mode" panic buying ( unfortunate )...low-life scavenger buyers re-selling on BackPage, etc., and greedy hoarder-preppers, whatever, but between ALL these & Dept. of HLS buying billions for none-exestent security force...Obambindenstein has gotten their wish...no need for "assault" weapon ban...this predictable response along with Government 1st preference buying/hoarding ...has and will continue to dry up the ammo.
Federal, Winchester, Remington, Hornady...would have to quintuple the ability of their output...maybe more, 10x to bring surplus back and/or meet the "new normal" demands.
Not seeing that happen.
Should have by now...?
Hate to sound pessimistic...not that way by nature, really...however, December 2012 Obama's "Ban the AR" / Mags speech...may go down as an historic point in time...
...a watershed moment in history, and new delineation of dispensation, new era marked by B.P. - A.P. (before panic - after panic)
HAHA at: B.P.- A.P.
No more shooting for me, I guess :(
Maybe I should get into stamp collecting?
Can I steal that for a sig line? :D
Also, one sure way to free up millions of rounds of ammo, would for all of our liberal "pals" in Congress & Executive Branch to write and pass legislature, with the help of their liberal 2nd Amendment loathing / gun fearing constituents /public ...that :stop:NO LIBERAL ANTI-GUN indivdual may purchase any ammo except shotgun ammo (to shoot up-in-the-air, from the porch...:rolleyes:)...why would they need to, such ammo is harder to aim / shoot...
Thus freeing up millions of rounds for us, who wish to struggle aiming our ARs / M4s.
We know that so many of these bleeding heart liberals, who are sure that banning scary black rifles w/ pistol grips and magazines holding over 10 Rnds. (10 & under don't kill )...or drying up all the ammo so our scary "assault" guns are just giant paperweights...secretly have plenty guns...
...they are closet shooters, hoarding the SG ammo, on the advice of crazy "uncle" Joe B., and are hoping at least ONE of their neighbors defies any such "bans", so when the SHTF in their neighborhood, they can run over there. to the "hi-cap" neighbor .
The best method I have found to determine if the local walmart has (had) ammo in stock is to keep an eye on the local craigslist… Walmart in the AM, craigslist in the PM...
I bet most of these vultures buying ammo at 6AM for resale don't own a single gun...
xjustintimex
04-09-13, 16:46
on the plus side, my fitness has gone way up since working out has filled the voids of time that shooting use to take up :p
FYI Houston guys. Gent in Magnolia had a 6920 and 6920SOCOM in stock over the weekend and currently has a another 6920, relatively reasonable.
http://www.lewistactical.com/
Federal, Winchester, Remington, Hornady...would have to quintuple the ability of their output...maybe more, 10x to bring surplus back and/or meet the "new normal" demands.
Not seeing that happen.
Should have by now...?
No, you're thinking about it wrong. All of the ammo companies were not running at 25% of capacity or even 75% of capacity before the panic. To run at that level means that 25% of the time the machinery they had invested millions of dollars in wasn't making them any money. Since the panic (6 months maybe, when Obama was reelected, but realistically 4 months) manufacturers may have turned production to 100% of capability, but they aren't going to rush to add to much production capability because they won't be able to justify that additional expense when the craze does down. If they sink a million dollars into new production equipment and the space to produce, with necessary inspections and permitting for that expansion, it means more NOW. It doesn't mean they will necessarily need all of that capability when the craze dies down, and they will have squandered piles of money on equipment that will sit idle.
For most companies it makes sense to produce as much as is currently possible of their most profitable lines and continute to sell every single round they make. They aren't LOSING customers because people can't buy ammo. In fact, they're gaining customers base at a tremendous rate as new people acquire rifles and then happily pay $16.99 for a box of $20 rounds. It's not what works best for you and me, but it's good business sense. Because when the craze dies down those people will see an $11.99 box of ammo as a great deal and remain a loyal customer. The rest of us will remember the bad old days of $16.99 and think that at least $11.99 is something better.
No, you're thinking about it wrong. All of the ammo companies were not running at 25% of capacity or even 75% of capacity before the panic. To run at that level means that 25% of the time the machinery they had invested millions of dollars in wasn't making them any money. Since the panic (6 months maybe, when Obama was reelected, but realistically 4 months) manufacturers may have turned production to 100% of capability, but they aren't going to rush to add to much production capability because they won't be able to justify that additional expense when the craze does down. If they sink a million dollars into new production equipment and the space to produce, with necessary inspections and permitting for that expansion, it means more NOW. It doesn't mean they will necessarily need all of that capability when the craze dies down, and they will have squandered piles of money on equipment that will sit idle.
For most companies it makes sense to produce as much as is currently possible of their most profitable lines and continute to sell every single round they make. They aren't LOSING customers because people can't buy ammo. In fact, they're gaining customers base at a tremendous rate as new people acquire rifles and then happily pay $16.99 for a box of $20 rounds. It's not what works best for you and me, but it's good business sense. Because when the craze dies down those people will see an $11.99 box of ammo as a great deal and remain a loyal customer. The rest of us will remember the bad old days of $16.99 and think that at least $11.99 is something better.
"All of the ammo companies were not running at 25% of capacity or even 75% of capacity before the panic. To run at that level means that 25% of the time the machinery they had invested millions of dollars in wasn't making them any money."
Lost me there...?
I was saying ...agree with you, never said they were at 25% or ANY less than 100% before...I'm sure they were...as you say, to do less would, as you say, waste the millions invested on equipment.
No, I was saying they probably were at 100%, but need to kick it up to meet current demands, which I do not think are going to subside for at least 4 more years...until this Obamination administration expires.
They make more, they sell more, we have more... everybody's happy?
I am not sure, as you say "this craze"...is any longer a "craze", and that it will ever "die down".
I think what we have is the new normal, an insatiable appetite for what many perceive as the only thing between freedom & life and those who would take it from us!
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