View Full Version : Which 22LR For Practice/Training? Please Advise
Father of 3
03-31-13, 21:50
In lieu of the ammo shortage most of you know that 9mm target ammo is extermly difficult to find and when you do its either double what you would normally pay for it or you can buy 2-3 boxes max. Therefore, I'm now searching for a good 22 LR so I can 1) resume practice sessions myself and 2) start teaching my oldest son how to shoot a real gun. My options are as follows:
Advantage Arms Conversion Kit for current G17
Ruger SR22
Ruger Mk III or 22/45
M&P 22
Walther P22
Sig Sauer Mosquito
Sig Sauer P229 Classic 22 ( with conversion later)
I would like to have the most reliable and trouble free option.
Opinions/experiences please. Thank you.
...
Ruger Mk III or 22/45
I would like to have the most reliable and trouble free option.
Opinions/experiences please. Thank you.
Opinion: Of those on your list, I'd go Mk III or 22/45, whichever fits your hand or your wallet better.
I have an Advantage Arms .22lr conversion for my Glock 26. I think that if your go-to pistol is a Glock this is the perfect solution as you can practice and train with the same grip, same trigger, same sights, same holster, everything.
It loves Mini Mags, but what doesn't?
I actually haven't shot it for awhile so I don't remember how good it was on Federal Bulk, although Remington was no-go (not uncommon, IME Remington .22lr just plain sucks)
Ruger Mark II/ 22-45
Browning Buck Mark
Those are two of the most reliable .22 pistols which I have owned. And I have owned several brands/ models.
Some differences: New Ruger Mark IIIs have a magazine disconnector, and the Browning models are typically much lighter in weight than a comparable Ruger model unless you purchase the plastic framed variants.
The Browning models also have an aluminium receiver. Whereas the Ruger is steel or plastic. The magazines for the Browning are more expensive.
I currently have two Browning models and noticed that the previous Ruger Mark IIs were more forgiving in ammunition selection.
I have tried two conversion kits and did not like the fact that they both seemed very ammo sensitive. Which is something to consider when there may not be much choice in rimfire ammunition because of the current market conditions.
p.s. The Mosquito is a less than reliable pistol. I would stay clear of that model.
The practice from a conversion kit or SR22 translate most closely to a G17, but from what I've seen, the Ruger MkIII would be the most reliable of the bunch.
22-45
Browning Buck Mark
Those are two of the most reliable .22 pistols which I have owned. And I have owned several brands/ models.
This, I've owned the Browning and it was a great gun. I currently own the 22/45 and I like it much better.
Coal Dragger
04-01-13, 04:16
I have quite a bit of experience with Ruger Mk II's and III's and they are generally very reliable and well made. With some care a Ruger will probably outlast anything else on your list. Plus they can be pretty accurate, something not always true of the conversion kits. As a rule of thumb you're better off with a .22 pistol that was designed to be a .22 pistol to start with.
I would also throw out the suggestion of buying a revolver instead. Many .22 autos can be overly sensitive to ammo and don't want to run right. Revolvers don't suffer this issue.
My wife, daughters, and I love the 22/45 and have been shooting it for years. It runs whatever ammo we feed it. I'm pretty sure Ruger also makes a lightweight Mk III.
I was going to get an AA kit for my 19 before all of this but I'm glad I didn't. I've been able to find cheap 9mm better than I have .22. I worked it out with some math and for the kit plus maybe 4-6 mags it costs about what 3k rounds of 9 would have. If you're set on it though, I'd say get the kit. Might as well train as many different aspects as you can (how to shoot in general and how to shoot the Glock).
RugerShooter
04-01-13, 08:22
I've owned and fired most of those you listed. And the first thing you need to look for is the fit to your hand. Fifty people may tell you how great one pistol is compared to another but if what they like is too large or too small for YOUR hand then your accuracy will be crap. Once you've found one that fits your grip then half the search is over. Next check out how the sights line up for you as you aim at a target. Does the pistol come up and go on target quickly or do you need to adjust a bit? You might also consider the weight difference. A small pistol like the Ruger SR-22 or Walther P-22 will weigh your hand down less than say a larger Ruger MK III. Most of the 22 pistols will feed the majority of ammo out there but a few will also be a bit finicky. Lastly, nearly all companies will resolve any issues quickly if one arises. A phone call to customer service will result in their sending you a label for the pistol to be picked up for repair and back to your hands in 2 or 3 weeks. :)
Nephrology
04-01-13, 10:23
I would advise the Ruger MkIII. I have a 22/45 and for the price I paid (189 OTD) I felt like they may as well have given it to me for free. It's had thousands of rounds through it with few non-ammo related malfunctions (not uncommon to get failures to fire in .22). I have never cleaned it. If/when I do, I'll probably just hose it down with non chlorinated brake cleaner and squirt a tiny bit of CLP on the bolt. The thing just runs.
I have never tried the Glock conversion kits, but I have a .22 conversion kit for my 1911 (kit by Kimber) and have been less than satisified with its reliability, though it is a very fun to shoot gun. For use to compliment your defensive pistol, I would prioritize the ability to go a couple rounds without having to clear a malfunction over identical ergonomics. Practice the non-live fire skills with your carry gun at home - reloads, draw from concealment, malfunction clearances (use snap caps!), etc. Then use .22 live fire to compliment simple shooting drills (bill drill, simple target transition drills, etc). And of course repeat all these drills using your carry pistol too. but above all I think its worth bearing in mind that .22s will never fully replace real practice with your gun, only supplement it.
Ruger Mark II/ 22-45
Browning Buck Mark
Those are two of the most reliable .22 pistols which I have owned. And I have owned several brands/ models.
Some differences: New Ruger Mark IIIs have a magazine disconnector, and the Browning models are typically much lighter in weight than a comparable Ruger model unless you purchase the plastic framed variants.
The Browning models also have an aluminium receiver. Whereas the Ruger is steel or plastic. The magazines for the Browning are more expensive.
I currently have two Browning models and noticed that the previous Ruger Mark IIs were more forgiving in ammunition selection.
I have tried two conversion kits and did not like the fact that they both seemed very ammo sensitive. Which is something to consider when there may not be much choice in rimfire ammunition because of the current market conditions.
p.s. The Mosquito is a less than reliable pistol. I would stay clear of that model.
I will second that.
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss72/Biggy8/Picture160_zps543be884.jpg
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss72/Biggy8/9ba3e55a-1f85-421e-9417-26ce1605dc2f_zps8e667a43.jpg
Urban_Redneck
04-01-13, 12:25
Add my voice to the chorus who've recommended Ruger 22/45 and the Buckmark. They are the only .22 pistols I've seen that will consistently run more than a 100 rounds of bulk ammo without choking.
YMMV
PA PATRIOT
04-01-13, 16:02
Just about any Ruger Mark II or III will run with decent .22LR and the best bulk I have found for accuracy and reliability is Federal 510's 40gr LRN. Almost all the .22LR forums have come to the same conclusion that price vs performance the 510's are hard to beat.
That said I have a Tactical Solutions G-17/22 .22LR conversion kit which came with two 15rd magazines and found that its a decent unit for the money and allows one to shoot more for less since 9mm is almost non existent in my area.
Just a side note when I first purchased the T/S kit I did have a bout with early generation magazines which would double feed two rounds at once jamming the gun but T/S replaced them asap and everything has been good since. So if you buy a unit manufactured before 2010 one might need the free magazine swap if this problem occurs.
I have a 22/45. Fired over 7000 rounds through it, cleaning after every range trip. Wonderful pistol, and a favorite to shoot. You really can't beat a good .22 for shooting fun. Only advice would be to go for the steel receiver vs the plastic, not because the plastic is bad, it's just that you'll like it so much it's easy to justify the extra expense. Also, buy a maxi mag speed loader.
I love the Ruger too. Have a 1975 Mark I and 1985 Mark II that still run fine. The new version of course is the Mark III. These are heavy pistols so compare them with the polymer framed 22/45 versions.
Ruger Mark II/ 22-45
Browning Buck Mark
+1. Buck Marks are most popular at the upper levels in local Steel Challenge matches I shoot. Rugers, not so much.
Another Browning/Ruger vote here.
I own a Ruger MKII, GSG1911, a Kimber 1911 kit and an Advantage Arms Glock 17 kit. The GSG1911 has seen the most use and I like the Advantage Arms kit when I am warming up to shoot my Glock 17.
I almost had the Ruger MKII sold yesterday, but the buyer backed out.
Ruger Mk III or 22/45
As others have stated, you can't go wrong with a Ruger .22LR - I love my 22/45...
Some differences: New Ruger Mark IIIs have a magazine disconnect
This is easily cured by installing a Mk II bushing.
Do you have a 1911? If so you can't beat a marvel conversion very accurate and reliable. If you do not have a 1911 are you some sort of commie? Ha ha
Do you have a 1911? If so you can't beat a marvel conversion very accurate and reliable. If you do not have a 1911 are you some sort of commie? Ha ha
Best answer so far! :)
I considered a Marvel as my brother has one and loves it, but opted for the 22/45 since it was half the price and a complete weapon as opposed to a conversion kit. If you can afford one, you can't go wrong.
Coal Dragger
04-02-13, 13:56
If the OP would like to spend more coin than that being discussed, I also have a lot of experience with high end competition style .22 pistols.
Probably the best deal out there for a reliable super accurate .22 target pistol is the Benelli MP95. Feed it good ammo, particularly standard velocity target ammo, and it will run like a top. Plus it will keep up with a Hammerli, or Pardini in the accuracy department while being more simple and reliable. Just lay in some spare firing pins (about $12.00/unit) and some spare recoil buffers.
The Smith and Wesson Model 41 is also very good, but in my more limited experience is not as reliable as the Benelli, Hammerli, and Pardini.
Brian Brazier
04-02-13, 14:04
Myy M&P22 has been 100% reliable with Federal Bulk ammo, I would recommend it to anyone. Th Ruger 22/45 is also a good choice, all depends on what you think will work best for you.
I love my AA .22 conv kit for my G17. Runs like a champ on Remington Golden Bullets
I have had a Sig mosquito, it was a jamo matic with a crap trigger. I have a 22/45 and a MKIII target model with the rosewood grip with the thumb rest. The MKIII is crazy accurate and very reliable. IMO you cant go wrong with the Ruger. The 22/45 is nice too, I just don't care for the polymer frame as much as the steel.
I have a Ruger Mark1 and a 22/45 and have shot most of the others, but I love my M&P.22. To my surprise it's my favorite. It's not fussy, and is very accurate with its favorite ammo. However it'll run on just about anything!
Brian Brazier
04-03-13, 10:41
I have a Ruger Mark1 and a 22/45 and have shot most of the others, but I love my M&P.22. To my surprise it's my favorite. It's not fussy, and is very accurate with its favorite ammo. However it'll run on just about anything!
I was also suprised by the M&P22, being built by Walther and so similar to the Walther P22 I was a little sceptical. But since the first trigger pull I have had 0 malfunctions. I added a Kineti-tech tread adapter and I have used my X300 Ultra on it a few times.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t97/bbrazierkendo/IMG_20130327_103943_zps020e6b2d.jpg
Yep M&P22 is my favorite along with my CZ Kadet. Both are reliable and the Kadet is built like a tank.
TriumphRat675
04-03-13, 13:02
According to its former head instructor, the Rogers shooting school has had excellent results with its fleet of M&P22's.
Crow Hunter
04-03-13, 16:49
I have owned or shot fairly extensively:
-Ruger MK II Target with 4" bull bbl (very rare)
-Ruger MK II Target Government "Slab side"
-AA Conversion Glock 19 (Since 2001)
-Browning Buck Mark
-S&W M&P 22
-Walther P22
Of the above, I personally prefer the AA Conversion for training purposes, as it matches most closely with my G19. It isn't the most reliable out there, but malfunction clearing is identical to a G19.
For accuracy shooting, I prefer the Browning Buck Mark.
For suppressed shooting, I prefer the Walther P22
For sheer fun shooting, none of the above (Ruger Single Six.:D)
I think you really need to define what you want out of it most and make your decision from that.
In my opinion, the Ruger and the Buckmark are the least suitable for "real gun" training. They are excellent for trigger control and are quite reliable and accurate but manipulations are completely different than most "real guns".
Another one for m&p 22. It is a joy to shoot and I like the fact I shoot an m&p.
As an FYI, the other day I saw grant had them in stock...
Lucky Strike
04-10-13, 15:04
Myy M&P22 has been 100% reliable with Federal Bulk ammo, I would recommend it to anyone. Th Ruger 22/45 is also a good choice, all depends on what you think will work best for you.
I have the same experience with my M&P22. I bought mine because my main fullsize is an M&P9 so it seemed like a no brainer.
Love the gun and it's run like a champ even with subsonics through my Silenerco Sparrow. Prethreaded barrel was a big plus.
Brian Brazier
04-10-13, 17:25
I have the same experience with my M&P22. I bought mine because my main fullsize is an M&P9 so it seemed like a no brainer.
Love the gun and it's run like a champ even with subsonics through my Silenerco Sparrow. Prethreaded barrel was a big plus.
I am working on getting a suppressor, I also have the full size M&P9, my LGS called last month cause the knew I wanted one, it is the Range and Carry kit, and I couldnt be happier. Out the door it was $575, not bad considering allot of places have the basic kit at that price point. I love my LGS, she has not raised prices a dime since all the crazyness, she said until her distributors raise her prices, they will remain the same.
jaybarbour
04-10-13, 18:18
I've been teaching my son to shoot recently. I got a good deal on a walther p22. We shoot weekly and around 3-400 22lr rounds and the stupid pot metal slide started chunking out. Got rid of it for more than i paid for it and bought an SR22. I would have bought a 22/45 or another heavier ruger but they were to heavy for him to use for that long of an extended session. His small hands couldn't really use the m&p well. I now have over 2000 rounds through his ruger and the only thing i've ever had wrong was a failure to feed because of his technique being improper (it's never done it on me or my girl). I paid 320 out the door for it in stainless.
SurplusShooter
04-10-13, 18:30
I also like the M&P 22.
It's great if you are looking for a .22LR gun that fits and functions the same way as its 9mm/40cal counterpart.
I've Been shooting mine with and without suppressor, it's still running fine.
It is full-size, not scale down so if you are buying for someone with small hands you may want a different gun that is scaled-down smaller.
KalashniKEV
04-11-13, 09:38
Yep M&P22 is my favorite along with my CZ Kadet. Both are reliable and the Kadet is built like a tank.
Kadet is still my favorite, but the M&P22 is with me now on every outing.
I must admit, I hated this little junker on sight just because of the construction and the Umarex barrel sleeve/ alloy slide... but it has earned my respect.
0 Malfunctions (now over 1K) suppressed and unsuppressed, dirty and clean.
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/Kalashnikev/Pistols/3f938bba-a4fc-42d3-a9bd-30113facebd3_zpsb6058664.jpg
I would even rate it's reliability-when-filthy above my 22/45.
My only thing now is to find some good plugs and remove the huge ambi-safety.
I have owned Ruger MK II's since 1991, and currently have three MK II's and a MK II era 22/45. They are all accurate and reliable and some have been modded with Volquartsen accurizing kits to use when I was competing. Some are stock and still shoot very well. You can't go wrong with the Rugers, but the Buckmarks are also very good.
If you can find a used MK II or MK II era 22/45 get it. They do not have the mag disconnect, loaded chamber indicator or internal lock that was added on the MK III.
Opinion: Of those on your list, I'd go Mk III or 22/45, whichever fits your hand or your wallet better. I would agree. Get the adjustable sight model. They will last and last.
Advantage Arms Conversion Kit for current G17
Ruger Mk III or 22/45
Walther P22
Sig Sauer P229 Classic 22 ( with conversion later)
I would like to have the most reliable and trouble free option.
Opinions/experiences please. Thank you.
I have the AA conversion. It had some extraction issues and it was sent back to the factory to get them ironed out. It's finicky with ammo, though CCI seems to be the best option of ammo in it. The advantage is that it works in the same gun of carry. It does lock back after the magazine is expended. The sights are good and can be replaced. Cannot be dry fired unless you have snap caps.
I have a Mark II Target Competition Slabside 6 7/8": there are no issues with regards to shooting, maintaining or cost of replacing parts. It's a little pain to field strip but when you've done it a few times, it's not hard (get a rubber mallet to make it easier). There are so many aftermarket parts to put into it. It doesn't have the magazine safety which requires the magazine to be dry fired (has to be done when field stripping). It is one of the only 22s that allow dry fire : Rugers, I mean. It is way more accurate than the shooter. I replaced the factory trigger with a Volquartsen. the disadvantage is that it is a heavy gun. The Mark III is a pain to break down because of the process of keeping the magazine in to dry fire. The 22/45 is a nice option since the grip angle is that of a 1911 and operation is similar.
Walter P22 is can be finicky with ammo. The manual lists what ammo is recommended.It's accurate but I don't like how it the mag release is set up. Magazines are pricey for an inexpensive gun like this. I don't like how the slide comes out when field stripping; It's different.
I have a P220 45 ACP with a conversion. That is a nice combination, also. I have not had any extraction issues with it, unlike the Advantage Arms. Again, it's a combat/duty frame with the 22LR option. Good sights and they can be replaced. Cannot be dry fired unless you have snap caps.
---
Some people have used 1911s and conversion slides but I have enough 22LR pistols and rifles. So I did not purchase one of them.
Redbeardsong
04-28-13, 07:57
In lieu of the ammo shortage most of you know that 9mm target ammo is extermly difficult to find and when you do its either double what you would normally pay for it or you can buy 2-3 boxes max. Therefore, I'm now searching for a good 22 LR so I can 1) resume practice sessions myself and 2) start teaching my oldest son how to shoot a real gun. My options are as follows:
Advantage Arms Conversion Kit for current G17
Ruger SR22
Ruger Mk III or 22/45
M&P 22
Walther P22
Sig Sauer Mosquito
Sig Sauer P229 Classic 22 ( with conversion later)
I would like to have the most reliable and trouble free option.
Opinions/experiences please. Thank you.
Umm... have you tried buying .22lr lately?
Umm... have you tried buying .22lr lately?
It's becoming available in our area lately. It's priced higher. Remington Thunderbolts in the 500 round box are now bringing $23.95, which is about 20% higher.
DAVID RICHARDS
04-28-13, 09:17
The Ruger MK series including the 22-45 have probably taught more people to shoot than any other gun made. For training, plinking, and just all around fun they are great. They will usually shoot about anything. Not true of a lot of the new "designer" .22's. So if the gun is more for general use and fun I'd say the Ruger all the way. Around here even .22 is hard to find.
If you want to train for a specific weapon the conversion kit or .22 model's of full caliber guns are ideal. When they work. I have an advantage arms kit for my G22 and it is excellent for practice with that style of firearm. It actually likes the Remington bulk packs. And a few other types but will not eat anything made by Winchester. I would stay away from the P-22, Sig Mosquito, and a few others. The slides are made from a zinc alloy. It is pot metal like used in the old Davis arms guns. They simply don't hold up to high volume shooting. Mine didn't anyways. They are usually not made by the company selling them either. They just stamp their name on them.
Although some early teething problems the Ruger SR22 is probably a good choice. Most I've seen were rock solid. And Ruger backs their guns well. Good trainer if you are looking at a gun to work DA/SA with. Decide what you will use the gun for the most and make the choice based on that. Good luck and good shooting.
jaybarbour
04-28-13, 17:01
Just a little range report, my kid now has over 2000 rounds through his SR22 with no malfunctions. If the other rugers are too heavy then it should fit the bill nicely.
I've been loving my Ruger SR-22. After minimal cleaning and shooting many types of ammo, to include bulk and the old MiniMag standby, I've yet to see a malfunction other than a bad primer. I think that on single-action, it is a good training tool for a striker-fired weapon and I've seen definite improvement in my GLOCK shooting. The only issue I have is that even with the large grip panel, it is still noticeably smaller than any full-size pistol I would shoot, but as mentioned, this has not hindered my full-size performance.
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